Really guys.. stop interpreting everything Cryptic does as a change to make more money. If they did that, game would quickly be unplayable. The most important thing for Cryptic probably is how many players they have in game, not the earnings per player.
In this case the reason for this change obviously is to cut off the possibility of large botted invoke AD-factories. Another turn in the fight to make game less bottable.
The problem with this change is that it actively encourages botting. All that is needed for the botters is to add a few extra routines to collect the salvage needed to trigger the bonus AD and their bot armies immediately pick up even more AD than they did before. This change will do nothing but hurt regular players while benefitting the bot armies. It is a change that serves no useful purpose but which will again cause a lot of anger amongst regular players.
The key is that the bot armies need to obtain and distribute the items to salvage. Since items drop mostly from dungeon or HE runs, that will take some fairly fancy scripts.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
TBH I hate invoking, makes me late for work in the morning, wife thinks i'm OCD
Maybe this is a good thing.
and I guess that if the aim was for Cryptic to remove AD from leadership armies, then they gave ppl enough time to make some AD back from their investment.
I only have 5 toons, so its not such a big loss for me
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sigillmacfinnMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 111Arc User
I managed to catch this topic just before I went to bed last night after a 2 & 1/2 hour run thru IWD which included my last AD invoke @ 1100 AD & the final invoke for the coins - so IF I understand the topic correctly I won't get the AD from invoke anymore as I will get a "bonus" amount on my salvage items - which after 2 + 1/2 hours in IWD amounted to ..... zilch/nada/nichts/nothing .... so where will I get the small amounts of AD that invoke gives me [useful for Dragon Glyphs & other small frequently used items] ... oh I run eLoL & eToS repeatedly or Throne - PoM & eDEMO/nDEMO ...... really?
On top of that as a GF they are going to make my game slower, more painful to play & less useful to parties as a team-mate?
Someone please tell me I have misunderstood both the stealth AD nerf & the GF nerfs as it is all sounding very painful & I wonder why we are being punished in this way?
The fact that the bonus carries forward makes the system better for me than initially thought, but depends if they reset it weekly or let you carry forward indefinitely.
I'd like to see it carry forward, too. Maybe capped at some 300% bonus or so. This would finally give me a reason to enter simplest dungeons with some of my alts and bother with all those neglected powers, feats, boons and companions on them. Right now I visit those easy dungeons on my main twice, once I need AD, it's not very entertaining, so get it done with fast as possible. That's about 30000 AD per week, if I even bother, not counting the weeklies, which I mangage to do about once per two month. End of AD earnings story on my account. And I won't usually visit epic dungeons on my main, too much of a struggle.
off topic (pardon, for me derailing into leadership crystal balling):
So you're quite happy to spend 500k ad for each stack of minor resonance? Come on...
As of lately, I don't spend any AD on refinement stones anymore. There is no point to it. One, the tiny artifact food coming from content will get any artifact stuff to next level in about a year or so, why even bother? Second, according to some "dungeon difficulty" uhmm... forum dicussions lately, no more than 2.0IL is needed for anything anyway! *nosy*
Make them bound to account, fair enough... Make them bound to character.... NO, i'm using leadership to make RP's for my alts as well, if that change happen, then i have no intention on keep doing my professions, nor on sticking around...
Oke. Yes, BtA seems fair enough. Though I do wonder how anybody manages to care for more than one character with upgrading stuff. My 9 other characters are support to my main, mainly for bag space like transmutes, fashion, dyes, alchemy stuff, stones, wards. And the various refinement stones in various bindings, which now just pile up. Uhm, that's not the right word... they don't pile, not at all, just stack up about some 3 pieces per month or so.
Before you go any further down that road, Panderus already said that they're not finding anything wrong with Leadership RP (and fully aware that it's the only thing that makes the profession remotely useful).
I managed to catch this topic just before I went to bed last night after a 2 & 1/2 hour run thru IWD which included my last AD invoke @ 1100 AD & the final invoke for the coins - so IF I understand the topic correctly I won't get the AD from invoke anymore as I will get a "bonus" amount on my salvage items - which after 2 + 1/2 hours in IWD amounted to ..... zilch/nada/nichts/nothing .... so where will I get the small amounts of AD that invoke gives me [useful for Dragon Glyphs & other small frequently used items] ... oh I run eLoL & eToS repeatedly or Throne - PoM & eDEMO/nDEMO ...... really?
On top of that as a GF they are going to make my game slower, more painful to play & less useful to parties as a team-mate?
Someone please tell me I have misunderstood both the stealth AD nerf & the GF nerfs as it is all sounding very painful & I wonder why we are being punished in this way?
The invoke changes are only on the Preview Server at the moment, they only go 'live' when Mod 10 drops next month. So you still have about three weeks of the current version of invoking left to make use of. Things may change between now and Mod 10 launch but it seems a bit unlikely. This change looks like it is already cast in concrete, so will be going ahead.
I invoke on 9 characters, so losing about 30k AD a day will cure me of my NW addiction for sure. This is what keeps me logging in day after day and staying on. Running dungeons ad nauseum instead is not my playstyle. I will never do that. I can't even handle weekly AD quests on all the alts. So if I can't make much AD and will instead be a pauper in game, I'll be playing less and looking for a new game as I go.
Devs should understand and stop chasing ghosts - people with many alts will always have advantage over these who have not and people who are specialized on AD making also will have advantage over these who busy with boons/campaigns/gear grind.
Making them "equal" on AD making capability is bad idea.
"When no appropriate rule applies, make one up."
— (The unwritten rule)
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited July 2016
This whole thing wouldn't be an issue if playing on your main would actually be worth it instead of having to mess around with alt characters for a few 1000 AD / day.
i totally agree with the changes, it will decisively hit a part of botting that hurts the playerbase. Guys complaining probably use those scripts and use "alternative excuses " to complain. remove all Rad and add more BoC RP on invoking. and increase the cap for Rad refinement
I invoke on 9 characters, so losing about 30k AD a day will cure me of my NW addiction for sure. This is what keeps me logging in day after day and staying on. Running dungeons ad nauseum instead is not my playstyle. I will never do that. I can't even handle weekly AD quests on all the alts. So if I can't make much AD and will instead be a pauper in game, I'll be playing less and looking for a new game as I go.
I only have four alts but I'm in a similar boat to yours. My VIP not-a-sub ends in 30 days and I was thinking of leaving anyway. This just makes leaving so much easier. From the last game I played I know that once the mental switch is flicked, logging in doesn't seem so imperative anymore. This will help help that. I might run LS via Gateway for a while until I can't be bothered doing even that.
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jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
This whole invoking system is balls! Just scrap it already I say and give us other options to obtain Coal Wards because I guarantee you it's the only reason players invoke in the first place. The AD reward is secondary.
Well, since they are dead set on going through with this, what about any real cutbacks on AD costs that actually matter? I am looking at those AD costs for upgrading companions, or the AD costs in some professions. Those AD costs should be adjusted as well.
This whole invoking system is balls! Just scrap it already I say and give us other options to obtain Coal Wards because I guarantee you it's the only reason players invoke in the first place. The AD reward is secondary.
Well, since they are dead set on going through with this, what about any real cutbacks on AD costs that actually matter? I am looking at those AD costs for upgrading companions, or the AD costs in some professions. Those AD costs should be adjusted as well.
I agree. The AD cost is too high and the upgrade tokens too hard to come by for companions.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Did no one else catch the part of the dev quote where he called everyone's purchased character slots a 'bot army's? Wtf* kind of comment is that?
Not a problem, if that is how they see those extra character slots, then they shouldn't have any issues with giving us a refund for them... At this point i'm just waiting for the next blow, when they decide to "update" the RP you can get from LS without "playing" the game.
Did no one else catch the part of the dev quote where he called everyone's purchased character slots a 'bot army's? Wtf* kind of comment is that?
Not a problem, if that is how they see those extra character slots, then they shouldn't have any issues with giving us a refund for them... At this point i'm just waiting for the next blow, when they decide to "update" the RP you can get from LS without "playing" the game.
They've already said that they're not going to touch RP in leadership.
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callofkutuluMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 56Arc User
Did no one else catch the part of the dev quote where he called everyone's purchased character slots a 'bot army's? Wtf* kind of comment is that?
Not a problem, if that is how they see those extra character slots, then they shouldn't have any issues with giving us a refund for them... At this point i'm just waiting for the next blow, when they decide to "update" the RP you can get from LS without "playing" the game.
They've already said that they're not going to touch RP in leadership.
Right..., like they said that coal wards and pres wards were going to stay in the trade bar store when they were talking about the store rework. They have near zero credibility doing what they say they will for players, or with making this game fun.
Well given they took out the coal wards and blood rubies from the trade store which was one of the reasons people even bought VIP (vip needs discounted predicated off that da decision) they're going to further screw them over by reducing invoke ad gain? Who are the idiots making the decisions of late? I mean do they kick small animals and say mean things to employee's at the drive through, because that's what they are coming off as. Nobody likes cash goblin tyrants who subtly exploit they very people who endorse the game.
Just think about what happened to r4&r5 prices after they were removed from nodes. Removing rp from leadership would affect rp prices similar. That would make huge impact to playerbase and probably would cause mass leaving from this game... As did leadership nerf, coal&pres ward nerf and probably this invocation nerf will make players leave. Currently we have all time low playerbase, but some of it is probably caused by holiday season and pre mod lauch slump
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
They've already said that they're not going to touch RP in leadership.
@urabask didn't they also say that Coal ward/preservation ward prices are going to go down after the mod 8 rework on xbox? Then they just removed them alltogether from both PC and Xbox.
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited July 2016
at least this one dont affect new players. just imagine to be a new player (month and half - mostly finished campaigns for most important boons) and wanna focus on collect some AD for basic things. So you start playing dungeons, skirmishes and pvp as game suggesting you, but when you do it you have ALMOST ZERO enchantment drop. You are staring at your artifacts and enchants and their filling bar is barely moving, for weeks, even months now. EVEN IF YOU ARE RESISTANT TO OBSCENE DAILY GRINDS, YOU ARE GETTING NOWHERE. Guildies cant help cause everything is bound, nothing cant help you. Stronghold bottleneck on gems showing that is problem for everyone. The reason there is not bigger uproar about it here is probably that players dont even bother to log on forum and rather quit.
btw yesterday i open over 167 invoking chest and i drop 7 coalescent wards, so drop probably remain around 3proc. rather open them now, to avoid that invoking changes mess
I think the changes are good. Personally, I would remove any AD earnings from invoking. There is no skill required, so there should be no (tradeable) rewards.
I think Cryptic just gave me 15min of my life back for every day Furthermore, I wouldn't cry if leadership RP became BOC. Only long-established players benefit from this.
There is no skill required for running early game dungeons either and you still get thousands of rAD for doing so. By your reasoning only stuff that can't be botted and only be done by skillful players should reward AD and that is not going to happen ever.
This whole thing wouldn't be an issue if playing on your main would actually be worth it instead of having to mess around with alt characters for a few 1000 AD / day.
Agreed. This is speaking as a solo player w/ many alts. I like playing them all, but current Invoking is where I get most of my daily rAD. Am I annoyed at that going away? Of course I am! However, I would be remiss to say that it is a PITA to reap rewards from Invoking legitimately, and doesn't remind me of 'compelling gameplay' at all. Weeklies and stuff like the Maze Engine and DR dailies to digest for players like me? Cool. Obsessively cycling through all my toons for 3k AD per errday? Helps me not fall too far behind in AD income, but it does suck to do.
I normally invoke each of my toons (9) at least once daily. Invokes on the toon I'm currently playing until I reach max for the day or a switch toons. I have a main (CW) and two others (DC, OP) that I play regularly. If I run dungeons I get 2-4 pieces of salvage, demo 2 per run, 3 demon HE's in DR, IWD, ToD 1-3 pieces of salvage that should be about 11 pieces of salvage at an average of 3.5k is over the daily limit of 35k. This takes me about an hour to do.
So now I will just mail pieces of salvage to myself and let my other toons get more AD for the same salvage. Plus the toon I'm one will be able to get even more bonuses meaning I need less salvage to hi the daily barrier.
Which means I can get more of my toons to the daily max AD refinement faster and I still get to play the game the way I want.
What is the total amount of AD you can get just from invoking 6 times? Maybe 6K? I can make that amount with one demo run in 15 minutes. I don't understand why people would complain about 6k when you can easily make more quicker than invoking however many toons you have x6. I just do it once a day to get Ardent Coin, Celestial Coin from the first one.
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Maybe this is a good thing.
and I guess that if the aim was for Cryptic to remove AD from leadership armies, then they gave ppl enough time to make some AD back from their investment.
I only have 5 toons, so its not such a big loss for me
On top of that as a GF they are going to make my game slower, more painful to play & less useful to parties as a team-mate?
Someone please tell me I have misunderstood both the stealth AD nerf & the GF nerfs as it is all sounding very painful & I wonder why we are being punished in this way?
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off topic (pardon, for me derailing into leadership crystal balling): As of lately, I don't spend any AD on refinement stones anymore. There is no point to it. One, the tiny artifact food coming from content will get any artifact stuff to next level in about a year or so, why even bother? Second, according to some "dungeon difficulty" uhmm... forum dicussions lately, no more than 2.0IL is needed for anything anyway! *nosy* Oke. Yes, BtA seems fair enough. Though I do wonder how anybody manages to care for more than one character with upgrading stuff. My 9 other characters are support to my main, mainly for bag space like transmutes, fashion, dyes, alchemy stuff, stones, wards. And the various refinement stones in various bindings, which now just pile up. Uhm, that's not the right word... they don't pile, not at all, just stack up about some 3 pieces per month or so.
Anyway, as
Making them "equal" on AD making capability is bad idea.
— (The unwritten rule)
I am looking at those AD costs for upgrading companions, or the AD costs in some professions.
Those AD costs should be adjusted as well.
At this point i'm just waiting for the next blow, when they decide to "update" the RP you can get from LS without "playing" the game.
That would make huge impact to playerbase and probably would cause mass leaving from this game... As did leadership nerf, coal&pres ward nerf and probably this invocation nerf will make players leave.
Currently we have all time low playerbase, but some of it is probably caused by holiday season and pre mod lauch slump
btw yesterday i open over 167 invoking chest and i drop 7 coalescent wards, so drop probably remain around 3proc. rather open them now, to avoid that invoking changes mess
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- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
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So now I will just mail pieces of salvage to myself and let my other toons get more AD for the same salvage. Plus the toon I'm one will be able to get even more bonuses meaning I need less salvage to hi the daily barrier.
Which means I can get more of my toons to the daily max AD refinement faster and I still get to play the game the way I want.
What is the total amount of AD you can get just from invoking 6 times? Maybe 6K? I can make that amount with one demo run in 15 minutes. I don't understand why people would complain about 6k when you can easily make more quicker than invoking however many toons you have x6. I just do it once a day to get Ardent Coin, Celestial Coin from the first one.