2 dungeons per day. 2 skirmishes per day. Boom. There's your AD.
Invoking on several chars every now and then is still less time consuming and possibly provides even more AD (for 6+ chars).
No not really. Doing 2x T1 skirmishes 2x T1 dungeons will net you around 40-50k if you have keys for them all. And this takes ~30 minutes tops. Invoking six characters means you're babysitting timers for four hours.
No? Two skirmishes alone will average to 20-30 mins. You never know what kind of people you get in PUGs. And good luck trying to do everything within 30 minutes if you also want to do TWO T1 dungeons. Next there is the fact that T1 loot salvage values will be nerfed, too. AND you have to get those keys first. You can cover dungeons with daily and VIP keys, okay, but not skirmishes. So neither are you right regarding the net value, nor the time, nor the required effort.
Leadership RP will be changed, no doubt. Maybe not right now, but eventually.
Well, then they should remove the profession part of the game altogether -> smaller footprint, -> cheaper server, less bugs, less lags.
You forgot -> less appeal overall
The browsergame like professions subsystem is a big mechanic to give you something to do between quests and dungeon runs. If they take that away, the game overall will be a lot less appealing.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
...botting doesn't hurt the playerbase, it's the only thing which makes any advancement still possible - or how do you expect the get the RP to update your artifacts to legendary/transcendent; buying bloodrubies from the Zen store?
Maybe by, like, playing the game?
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
...botting doesn't hurt the playerbase, it's the only thing which makes any advancement still possible - or how do you expect the get the RP to update your artifacts to legendary/transcendent; buying bloodrubies from the Zen store?
Maybe by, like, playing the game?
To keep up with the current AD prices for stuff, you'd have to play the game several hours daily for months. You can't seriously expect people to regard that as just "playing the game".
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
If you have time and little money, play the game. If you have money but little time, buy zen. If you're somewhere in the middle, do both.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
This is pointless. Botters make more AD doing dungeons than they do from invoking. It won't hurt them at all. Only legit players are going to be maimed as usual.
I understand that they are trying to make things fair to characters with less characters, but it does have a chance to backfire. I can now make more ad on my alts by taking advantage of the salvage bonus the evoking gives. I have 11 chars that I do full evoke on every day and at least 1 dung per day. I also have a big amount of RAD on both my main and second toon. This means all salvage can be send to my alt toons putting me in a stronger AD position than prior to mod 10.
They could always fix it so that AD can't be shifted between characters on an account through the ZAX.
I'm not so sure that's a good fix. I personally farm for equipment for my alts with my more "main" characters. It keeps me running for ichor, fangs, and such. Its only fair that when I log on to that character, that I have a way of transferring my AD to my main who is supporting them. Later on, I play the hell out of that toon. They have new, sometimes bis equipment at level 60 and 70 respectively when I start at 70. They're not usually monsters, but competitive to begin with. At a certain point, playing one toon just doesn't add much if you can't share. Why spend the money for alts if you can't take advantage of them. I have a toon from all eight classes, and I enjoy them all. Sharing AD makes that possible.
I managed to catch this topic just before I went to bed last night after a 2 & 1/2 hour run thru IWD which included my last AD invoke @ 1100 AD & the final invoke for the coins - so IF I understand the topic correctly I won't get the AD from invoke anymore as I will get a "bonus" amount on my salvage items - which after 2 + 1/2 hours in IWD amounted to ..... zilch/nada/nichts/nothing .... so where will I get the small amounts of AD that invoke gives me [useful for Dragon Glyphs & other small frequently used items] ... oh I run eLoL & eToS repeatedly or Throne - PoM & eDEMO/nDEMO ...... really?
On top of that as a GF they are going to make my game slower, more painful to play & less useful to parties as a team-mate?
Someone please tell me I have misunderstood both the stealth AD nerf & the GF nerfs as it is all sounding very painful & I wonder why we are being punished in this way?
I'm guessing that it applies to all AD that you earn like the experience does, so you'll get it from running dungeons, skirmishes, weeklys, and Maze Engine Dailies as well. If that's not the case, then this change really blows.
I normally invoke each of my toons (9) at least once daily. Invokes on the toon I'm currently playing until I reach max for the day or a switch toons. I have a main (CW) and two others (DC, OP) that I play regularly. If I run dungeons I get 2-4 pieces of salvage, demo 2 per run, 3 demon HE's in DR, IWD, ToD 1-3 pieces of salvage that should be about 11 pieces of salvage at an average of 3.5k is over the daily limit of 35k. This takes me about an hour to do.
So now I will just mail pieces of salvage to myself and let my other toons get more AD for the same salvage. Plus the toon I'm one will be able to get even more bonuses meaning I need less salvage to hi the daily barrier.
Which means I can get more of my toons to the daily max AD refinement faster and I still get to play the game the way I want.
What is the total amount of AD you can get just from invoking 6 times? Maybe 6K? I can make that amount with one demo run in 15 minutes. I don't understand why people would complain about 6k when you can easily make more quicker than invoking however many toons you have x6. I just do it once a day to get Ardent Coin, Celestial Coin from the first one.
Invoking is a good way to get a bit more AD "inbetween". What if you don't have much time to play? Or what if you don't like doing demo runs, maybe because you don't like PUGs and don't have a guild or don't want to play in a guild? There are many different reasons. The point is that this change makes the system unnecessarily more restrictive for people playing the game legitimately, supposedly to get at the botters. But botters will always find ways to get stuff, for example via PvP, skirmishes and dungeons and how are they going to stop that by messing up the invocation system for everyone else? It's nonsensical.
The point of the guild system is to get people playing together, and to penalize you if you're solo. The best armor in the game is only available in Strongholds. They are definitely trying to direct the way the game is played. If you don't play that way, you either adjust, or move on. Only serious players spend money. They don't make money otherwise. Nothing. Make as many of these lonely men become invested in thier online relationships as possible. They'll spend money while they are there, just like well-adjusted people spend money at dinner, drinks, or some other similar social interaction. t
[Note: this post is a continuation of the conversation in the previous (now closed) patch thread.]
Invocation changes: I think Panderus has hit most of the points, but let me just clarify: * There is no "expiration" of the bonus. It won't ever go away. As long as you are actively playing the character, the new system should not leave you any worse off. * In fact, the new system leaves you better off (again, if you are playing the character) by about +20%, because it just gives you that much more AD (at L70 -- slight variations at lower levels, just due to rounding). * There is supposed to be a UI treatment that makes this all clear. Looks like that isn't in yet . But it basically looks like a glory boost, if you've ever used one of those. It's a buff icon that tells you how many more points of +50% earn rate you have left. * There is a cap on the total boost value you can get (all numerics in any game need some kind of cap, computers don't like infinities), but it's super-big. It's set to 100,000 AD, which is about a month's worth of boost. So you could invoke all day every day for a month (ok, 27 days to be precise) and still not lose a thing (again, in fact you get +20%). Past a month, and you'd hit the cap if you invoked the full amount every day that month but never played anything that earned you AD. * Characters that you never play with -- only invoke -- are the only ones that lose out. Which was the intention: more rewards for playing, less for characters you don't play.
The above from the latest Preview Patch Note Thread. 27.7 days before you hit the cap (we are still unsure of the interaction with VIP).
It would be in their interest to get people playing, thus interacting, which can create a relationship investment. Hopefully the VIP goes over everything. That is money in their pocket, and the more incentive to buy it without adding huge advantages keeps it F2P without much legitimate backlash. Note, I said legitimate backlash, because people always get all up in arms when they encounter uncertainty or change.
I still don't see how this is going to hit botters harder than legit players. They'll just set up their bots to finish the invocation chains on all their chars first, then let them run dungeons and skirmishes.
Making a bot behave well in a normal combat situation is fairly hard, so I don't think they can just 'let them run dungeons and skirmishes'. Bots depend on a predictive environment and are less suited to handle the randomness of a group dungeon.
So the invoke change probably will have a good effect at stopping the invoke bots, if for no other reason that it will be more productive to use the bots in other farming situations.
That's what I was thinking. I saw someone talking about bots running dungeons, and I'm just thinking about the amount of coding involved. The bang definitely wouldn't be worth the buck.
i totally agree with the changes, it will decisively hit a part of botting that hurts the playerbase. Guys complaining probably use those scripts and use "alternative excuses " to complain. remove all Rad and add more BoC RP on invoking. and increase the cap for Rad refinement
...botting doesn't hurt the playerbase, it's the only thing which makes any advancement still possible - or how do you expect the get the RP to update your artifacts to legendary/transcendent; buying bloodrubies from the Zen store?
You just play the game. It works that way. Its slow, but instant gratification doesn't keep people coming back.
This is pointless. Botters make more AD doing dungeons than they do from invoking. It won't hurt them at all. Only legit players are going to be maimed as usual.
How does a "botter" play a dungeon?
Botter doesn't play, the bots do. Bots exist in these dungeons. You never had a bot in your party? It would be very ignorant for anyone to "explain" how bots function, but you don't need to be a programmer to be a botter. There are entire forums dedicated to selling players bot scripts.
Bots can be easy to recognize by players that know what to look for, they don't talk, they don't fight well, they just keep up with the party and stay alive. If the party recognizes them as bots, they get kicked. The bot doesn't get mad and rage quit, the bot just starts the next dungeon run. It is a machine playing against a machine and it can't get more simple than that.
Fame is a vapor, popularity an accident; the only earthly certainty is oblivion. ~ Mark Twain
Not sure why people are complaining about this. People are using bots to receive free money instead of earn it the normal way. Now dedicated players like myself will be excelling even better, relative to the people who just run bots and have a billion char slots. No amount of whining or arguing is going to logically defeat the point that botting invokes is harmful to people who actually put in an effort earning AD.
Atodaso@sneak#6191 Tornado Of Souls
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,459Arc User
I still don't see how this is going to hit botters harder than legit players. They'll just set up their bots to finish the invocation chains on all their chars first, then let them run dungeons and skirmishes.
Making a bot behave well in a normal combat situation is fairly hard, so I don't think they can just 'let them run dungeons and skirmishes'. Bots depend on a predictive environment and are less suited to handle the randomness of a group dungeon.
So the invoke change probably will have a good effect at stopping the invoke bots, if for no other reason that it will be more productive to use the bots in other farming situations.
That's what I was thinking. I saw someone talking about bots running dungeons, and I'm just thinking about the amount of coding involved. The bang definitely wouldn't be worth the buck.
That was what I thought before too. However, that was before I was pointed to a place and saw all these 'free' software that are for running bots for various Neverwinter Skirmish and dungeons. There are people dedicated to "improve" them with version after version for each Skirmish and dungeon. No, I don't know how real these are and I don't really want to know.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Comments
The browsergame like professions subsystem is a big mechanic to give you something to do between quests and dungeon runs. If they take that away, the game overall will be a lot less appealing.
If you have money but little time, buy zen.
If you're somewhere in the middle, do both.
t
Bots can be easy to recognize by players that know what to look for, they don't talk, they don't fight well, they just keep up with the party and stay alive. If the party recognizes them as bots, they get kicked. The bot doesn't get mad and rage quit, the bot just starts the next dungeon run. It is a machine playing against a machine and it can't get more simple than that.
Tornado Of Souls