@lirithiel if you throw in some suggestions that are buffs without reworking the functions of feats or powers, you be able to get some of them in for the combat tree prior to @amaner closing it out. It's worth a shot, the combat tree didn't get much attention during the change process.
It's not my job to come up with ideas for changes, I'm just pointing out where the problems lie so that the devs can look at them and come up with better alternatives. Besides @ghoulz66 has done a terrific job what pointing out what could be done to improve Combat but alas those ideas were ignored. Instead we got buffs for powers that will continue to be passed up (Throw Caution) because the ranged version of the encounter takes an aeon to cast (Split the Sky). Thorned Strike is another one that received a buff but the animation is also slow and the damage meh.
Single target damage will remain in the toilet because Rapid Shot hits like a wet noodle and it's our bread and butter at-will. Clear the Ground may even end up doing more damage than Rapid Shot to single targets. Currently AoE is not the problem - stuff melts with CtG, Blade Storm (OH feature included) and Plant Growth. We need help in the single-target department. One super-duper encounter (Gushing Wound) in our arsenal just won't cut it.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I don't want to be pain in the a.. , yet the ones that say Thorned Roots should not be benefitting from Weapon Enchancements are just trolling this thread, and probably they're not even Hunter Rangers, or they seem to hate the class.
But Thorned Roots aren't affected by weapon enchantments. There are only two that apply to it, because it can crit, and out of those two, one only applies erroneously because Thorned Roots is not an encounter power.
@macjae i will say it again that thorned roots is an encounter power please read the feat and don't post false information.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
I don't want to be pain in the a.. , yet the ones that say Thorned Roots should not be benefitting from Weapon Enchancements are just trolling this thread, and probably they're not even Hunter Rangers, or they seem to hate the class.
But Thorned Roots aren't affected by weapon enchantments. There are only two that apply to it, because it can crit, and out of those two, one only applies erroneously because Thorned Roots is not an encounter power.
@macjae i will say it again that thorned roots is an encounter power please read the feat and don't post false information.
@genjundead please read Thorn Roots tooltip. Is Grasping Roots an encounter? NO. It's a class mechanic. Open up the Powers tab on the character sheet and look at the blue box at the top under General Powers. The fact that 3 encounters apply Grasping Roots (strong/weak) is irrelevant to your argument.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Yup the Trapper got super nerfed and it was not necessary they just needed to reword the tool tips. It will now under preform in dmg against other classes at full potential.
Unbuffed damage of melee at-wills, yeah CtG got a 50% buff, but that will take it to only about 1800 which I highly doubt will be enough
Buffed with throw caution plus combat feat for 5% per enemy in range, which were about 5 of em
Now let's compare to unbuffed at-wills for the GWF, seriously, even a GWF at base damage makes combat look like a joke
Fully buffed, which takes only a few seconds and so easy to maintain afterwards
Even with a P vorpal and skirmisher's gambit, a crit from rapid strike is only about 6-7k, a flurry crit is about 12k but since we lower our crit seeing this happen will be a lot more rare than nothing but orange numbers for a GWF, even steel blitz is hitting just as hard at about 10k
And just for a laugh even my conqueror GF so vastly superior, my GWF has 17k power, HR has 14k, and GF has 12k and they all use x3 greater bonding, the HR's melee at-wills are so far behind. It can only literally scratch things to death, even with the rain of swords multiproc
This is the heart of the problem. I don't how many times I have to copy/paste to get this across. Even powers like marauder's rush and boar charge are only hitting for 4-5k. Plant growth is the only AoE hitter combat has and a GWF can counter it by simply holding down WMS and achieving the same numbers minus the CD. Pure combat will never be viable is this isn't addressed. Small % buffs on the tree won't bump at-wills enough, they need their base damage drastically increased. My HR is so much more squishy than my GWF or GF that I nearly died just trying to take two screenshots. No bulk, no damage, no good chunk of extra deflect. How is combat supposed to even survive in the middle of a heated fight like a tank of bulky GWF can without dying to stray swings of elite mobs?
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patcherrkmMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 127Arc User
thoroughly disappointed. combat isnt remotely viable. most of HR damage comes out of trappers capstone, thorned roots, and rotations. archery is a joke and combat is a worse joke. if this is the result, then why bother? we have no significant burst. Only way we will be viable is to find some bugged mechanic that they broke, because lord knows that we arent competitive by design.
1) A *feat* in the Trapper tree. 2) An upgrade to Strong Grasping roots. Strong Grasping roots is byproduct of specific encounters and is not an encounter itself.
Again, Thorned Roots and Grasping Roots are NOT encounters. Just as:
Smolder is NOT an encounter.
Rimfire Smolder is NOT an encounter.
Fire of the Gods is NOT an encounter, and should not independently benefit from buffs as it currently does.
Lostmauth's Vengeance is not an encounter and also should not independently benefit from buffs, hence the fix.
Thorned Roots should not pump out the damage it is currently capable of doing, test dummy(ies) or not. The damage it deals is too significant on CC immune and high HP enemies.
The realistic compromise is to buff the HR base encounter damage for higher burst and nerf/fix Thorned Roots.
if the encounter that does the damage and applies the root is being affected by said dread enchant; then when using the constricting arrow which applies strong grasping roots and the root is being turned into thorned roots, which also does damage, then dread will also affect thorned roots.
based on how it is worded in the tooltip in the feat tray and how it is worded on the neverwinter page. we can all agree that when using constricting arrow you are no long applying strong grasping roots but thorned roots.
since thorned roots is now being applied when you use the encounter that use to apply strong grasping roots, then the damage thorned roots does is now in sync with the encounter itself. the encounter is applying the damage and the dot and the dot is being affected by the dread enchant because of how the game mechanics work.
that is the best way i can prove that is works as it should game mechanic wise.
strong and weak grasping roots are not affected by dread enchant cause they don't do damage, but if they did then i bet dread would affect them too. as for other encounters that apply dots, i am not sure if they are affected by dread enchant, as i don't really use them.
I hope the Devs see that this forum is LITTERED with people sought out to nerf Trappers rather than help or offer any good suggestions.
A solid 60 -70% of this has been "Reduce this, and take this away" rather than giving beneficial input.
it's also littered with Trappers who don't care about anything regarding the rest of the class as long as continue to have zero cooldowns on their encounters.
and people who cannot seem to logically disagree with any of the "reduce this, and take this away", so they resort to attack the posters instead.
devil's advocate.
let's keep our eyes on the prize here. all three spec lines need work to be brought up to a competitive level, not just Trappers. this cannot happen if every discussion focuses on Trappers.
i might be wrong and i might be right i am only judging based on wording. yes roots are a class mechanic and not initially part of encounters. but if an at will would to apply a root then that root you just applied would become part of the at wills benefits and buffs as would if you apply a root using an encounter that root you just applied gains any buffs from encounters same with daily powers if you would to apply a root with a daily power and buffs that help daily powers will also affect that root you just applied. their are affects that just buff roots like crushing roots, but just on wording alone you got to agree that thorned roots being affected by dread enchant is not a bug. and based on game mechanics it should be working as it is. if this is wrong and it is a bug only the devs can answer that, but as of right now based on how it is worded it should be working like it is till a dev says otherwise. it becomes part of the encounter, just as it would if used by a daily or at will power. and should gain any buffs or debuffs of that power.
this is all based on my opinion and on how i think, so yes i might be wrong, but by just reading it and based on wording this is how i feel it works and why i think dread enchantment should be affecting thorned roots. not just for hr's thorned roots, but i believe that dread enchant should affect any dot that comes from an encounter. it should affect the encounter as a whole.
I hope the Devs see that this forum is LITTERED with people sought out to nerf Trappers rather than help or offer any good suggestions.
A solid 60 -70% of this has been "Reduce this, and take this away" rather than giving beneficial input.
it's also littered with Trappers who don't care about anything regarding the rest of the class as long as continue to have zero cooldowns on their encounters.
and people who cannot seem to logically disagree with any of the "reduce this, and take this away", so they resort to attack the posters instead.
devil's advocate.
let's keep our eyes on the prize here. all three spec lines need work to be brought up to a competitive level, not just Trappers. this cannot happen if every discussion focuses on Trappers.
yep. +1 pretty much even if litter is here their are some post who talk about hr as a whole.
We could arguing about wording back and forth all the time. It is apparently the Thorned root damage has been defined in the code as part of damages from encounters powers.
The question is that why should we nerf the utility of an expensive enchant, which is newly introduced. If we think the damage of thorned roots should be transfered to some encounter damges, we should discuss about that. There are better ways to solve the problem. Be creative and be respect to the hard work others have done. I can see the point that thorned roots has around 40% damge of a trapper, which is a bit high. I would like to also do a test with plant growth in a rotation myself. The buffed gushing wound is apprantly also very viable in a party.
Plant Growth - Will allow procs of Blade Storm??? You have to be kidding me? Buff to Stormwarden And there are other buffs to Stormwarden.... Looks like I will be switching from Pathfinder soon.
I just want this out there that Plant Growth is stupidly over powered as it is. Not all of us like to use it... But with these recent changes it looks like we probably will all have to use it as a Stormwarden to do some decent damage.
The only thing (apart from the broken mechanics needing fixing hitting 100's off millions) that is over powered on a Trapper really is Plant Growth. For those of us that do not usually use it, we may be pigeon holed into equipping it in the future I fear and switching to Storm Warden.
Seems like the ninja nerf worked. While plant growth was fixed to allow the proc of bladestorm, the feat bladestorm itself was fixed from it getting more buffs than what was intended. Ironically, these may bring users back to being a pathfinder and if CA wasn't fixed, most likely pathfinder would be the go-to of most.
I hope the Devs see that this forum is LITTERED with people sought out to nerf Trappers rather than help or offer any good suggestions.
A solid 60 -70% of this has been "Reduce this, and take this away" rather than giving beneficial input.
it's also littered with Trappers who don't care about anything regarding the rest of the class as long as continue to have zero cooldowns on their encounters.
and people who cannot seem to logically disagree with any of the "reduce this, and take this away", so they resort to attack the posters instead.
devil's advocate.
let's keep our eyes on the prize here. all three spec lines need work to be brought up to a competitive level, not just Trappers. this cannot happen if every discussion focuses on Trappers.
Trappers did not start this. Others did they kept the fire stirring with hidden agendas. As I have said over and over these post should be deleted and only improvements or feed back should be posted here. They are pushing agendas and we are falling for it and we are not even hearing from Amenar any more no wonder. We are self destructing and its our own fault. the only thing I think worse than us will be the TR balance thread that will be next. wait til SE nerf is a reality on the table. We were told trapper was just a damage increase needed now its all about nerf trapper trapper qqing ands trapper selfish. IN last 3 pages no trappers talking about Sotf. but now others still after trapper again to keep every one arguing then combat and archer paying for it and the same people laughing at us because we are fools
Unbuffed damage of melee at-wills, yeah CtG got a 50% buff, but that will take it to only about 1800 which I highly doubt will be enough
Buffed with throw caution plus combat feat for 5% per enemy in range, which were about 5 of em
Now let's compare to unbuffed at-wills for the GWF, seriously, even a GWF at base damage makes combat look like a joke
Fully buffed, which takes only a few seconds and so easy to maintain afterwards
Even with a P vorpal and skirmisher's gambit, a crit from rapid strike is only about 6-7k, a flurry crit is about 12k but since we lower our crit seeing this happen will be a lot more rare than nothing but orange numbers for a GWF, even steel blitz is hitting just as hard at about 10k
And just for a laugh even my conqueror GF so vastly superior, my GWF has 17k power, HR has 14k, and GF has 12k and they all use x3 greater bonding, the HR's melee at-wills are so far behind. It can only literally scratch things to death, even with the rain of swords multiproc
This is the heart of the problem. I don't how many times I have to copy/paste to get this across. Even powers like marauder's rush and boar charge are only hitting for 4-5k. Plant growth is the only AoE hitter combat has and a GWF can counter it by simply holding down WMS and achieving the same numbers minus the CD. Pure combat will never be viable is this isn't addressed. Small % buffs on the tree won't bump at-wills enough, they need their base damage drastically increased. My HR is so much more squishy than my GWF or GF that I nearly died just trying to take two screenshots. No bulk, no damage, no good chunk of extra deflect. How is combat supposed to even survive in the middle of a heated fight like a tank of bulky GWF can without dying to stray swings of elite mobs?
I don't think it's accurate to say that all of the people pushing very basic changes to the class are doing so maliciously. In particular, Ralexinor has been quite upfront about what she (?) wants and why. (My apologies if you're a 'he', Ral).
The goal there does not seem to be to ruin the class, but it does involve changing the playstyle of a class which some of us enjoy and want to keep. The point that there are a number of ways to even out the paths seems to have been lost.
But I don't think her case has been particularly helped by other people attempting to run interference for her or by the very obvious shills who are here to protect the interests of their own preferred classes in PVP.
The problem is, the developers have shown that they won't commit to the damage increases required to allow the class to perform well with the big changes to swiftness and thorned roots being suggested. The pass is drawing to a close, some adjustments have been made, but it seems unlikely now there will be any more dramatic changes to damage for powers.
So the people still pushing the nerf swiftness/thorned roots cases so late in this exercise are taking a substantial risk that if those changes are made, the developers will follow through with the buffs Ral and some of the others think will compensate. Unfortunately there is absolutely no guarantee that this will occur soon or even anytime later on.
The danger I see is that if for some reason Amenar does go along with it (hopefully after considering the outcome, rather than just the definitional arguments of what is and isn't a bug or an encounter power, which have been such great red herrings), we may end up with three bad paths. It really seems like a classic case of 'be careful what you wish for', and although I don't think people who aren't still playing should be barred from this discussion, the stakes for them are a lot lower if it goes wrong.
Anyway, we should really be using the little time we have left to do whatever else needs to be done to get archery and particularly combat, which seems most behind now, up to par. It doesn't matter if the class design isn't conceptually perfect, what matters is that people can enjoy and perform well with all three paths.
So if you see a weakness in archery or combat and have a good suggestion for fixing it, speak up. My guess is improving some of the feats in those trees is where the answer is now.
I don't think it's accurate to say that all of the people pushing very basic changes to the class are doing so maliciously. In particular, Ralexinor has been quite upfront about what she (?) wants and why. (My apologies if you're a 'he', Ral).
The goal there does not seem to be to ruin the class, but it does involve changing the playstyle of a class which some of us enjoy and want to keep. The point that there are a number of ways to even out the paths seems to have been lost.
But I don't think her case has been particularly helped by other people attempting to run interference for her or by the very obvious shills who are here to protect the interests of their own preferred classes in PVP.
The problem is, the developers have shown that they won't commit to the damage increases required to allow the class to perform well with the big changes to swiftness and thorned roots being suggested. The pass is drawing to a close, some adjustments have been made, but it seems unlikely now there will be any more dramatic changes to damage for powers.
So the people still pushing the nerf swiftness/thorned roots cases so late in this exercise are taking a substantial risk that if those changes are made, the developers will follow through with the buffs Ral and some of the others think will compensate. Unfortunately there is absolutely no guarantee that this will occur soon or even anytime later on.
The danger I see is that if for some reason Amenar does go along with it (hopefully after considering the outcome, rather than just the definitional arguments of what is and isn't a bug or an encounter power, which have been such great red herrings), we may end up with three bad paths. It really seems like a classic case of 'be careful what you wish for', and although I don't think people who aren't still playing should be barred from this discussion, the stakes for them are a lot lower if it goes wrong.
Anyway, we should really be using the little time we have left to do whatever else needs to be done to get archery and particularly combat, which seems most behind now, up to par. It doesn't matter if the class design isn't conceptually perfect, what matters is that people can enjoy and perform well with all three paths.
So if you see a weakness in archery or combat and have a good suggestion for fixing it, speak up. My guess is improving some of the feats in those trees is where the answer is now.
It makes no sence nerf thorned roots, it deals so little damage already, a removal of any enchantment or critic effect makes sence to make it a solid damage like someone has said earlier, but if that happens a big, big buff to it's base damage should also come along with it.
About melee at wills, a buff seems more than justified, it wont have huge impact in trapper or archer but combat desperatly need, to give a good comparisson search "beter neverwinter 63-0 kills" on youtube and watch how hard at-wills dealt back then.
Different things got sorted, some goals got achived like a general cooldown reduction to several (but not all powers and charge refill yet), and some of the longtime bugs that exist since over 5 modules (reported during past 2-3 years and never listened as no devel was really bothering to read our forums before now) got fixed, the main issue is that the overall cooldown reduction is only one of the three main goal there existed to fix the HR class properly, the base damage boost didn`t yet happened (we got a raw 10-15% increase in some cases) while we require a 30% to 70% damage boost increase, 30% for most (but not all) encounters, 40% for dailies and 70% for most (but not all) at-wills. The 3rd goal is the diversification which goes trought rework the other two trees (archery and combat) to bring them in pair with Trapper, so far Archery is the one that got this process started and I would say around 70% achieved, while Combat got started but not more than 20% of the needed work got achivied.
Alot of the changes even relies in "limbo" as it´s part of patches done by @amenar but didn´t yet reached the preview, which is silly, and this cause fights in here as many ppl are unable to understand them before have tried them out, which in any case we all need be able to test them to figure out that the new changes aren´t bugged in some matter.
The time run short and this is the pissing part of it all, while we have a company (cryptic) that set a release date, and on the other side we have a community (us) that is unable to test changes and finish off the started work together, @amenar by now I guess has figured out that the HR of all classes is the one that require the most attention to get reworked. I will ask this here now Loud, despite alone I wont be able to get this done, as eventually not even a petition will get this done, but eventually if everyone will shout for it we can raise a Louder voice, get the date of Module 10 pushed back to a september release date as we are only half way to have our HR class rework done.
Post edited by krondhor on
GRAVITY XGAME
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
It makes no sence nerf thorned roots, it deals so little damage already, a removal of any enchantment or critic effect makes sence to make it a solid damage like someone has said earlier, but if that happens a big, big buff to it's base damage should also come along with it.
Did you not see the ACT log posted by @ralexinor? Do you consider 40% of one's total damage coming from one source (Thorned Roots in this case) as little damage? You must be new to this sort of thing - I suggest giving Pokemon Go a try if you haven't already. Might be more down your alley
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
edited August 2016
List of proposed changes for Archery
Powers: At-wills
Aimed Shot: Charge time reduced to 1s at Rank 4. Damage of the actual hit reduced slightly, but damage per cast time increased ~23%. Charging this power is no longer interrupted by taking damage. It should now be easier to chain other powers after casting Aimed Shot.
Rapid Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Split Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Decreased the amount of time required to reach maximum charge by 0.25s. Increased the damage dealt at minimum charge by ~10%. The AoE targeting FX now more accurately represent the area that will be hit.
Electric Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Reduced the activation time of each shot by 0.3s. This has increased the overall DPS of the combo by ~33%. Damage increased ~33%.
Powers: Encounters
Commanding Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 9% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. In addition to the base damage increase, damage further increased ~50%. Recharge time reduced to 16s, down from 18s. Damage increased ~300%. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.The debuff should no longer fail to work in certain situations.
Rain of Arrows: Decreased Recharge time to 16, down from 17. Increased radius to 10 feet, up from 6 feet. Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Longstrider's Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Damage further increased by ~45%. Buff no longer stacks if rapidly reapplied.
Hawk Shot: Activation time reduced to 1.7s, down from 2s. Changed the way this power clamps damage based on range. Previously, in order to deal maximum damage, you actually had to be at 80' (or further, with Aspect of the Falcon), and the damage kept getting smaller until you were almost touching the target. Now, the minimum damage is dealt to anyone within 20', and the maximum damage is dealt to anyone 60' away or further. The minimum damage has been increased greatly. Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 20s. This power is now an AoE power, and deals damage to up to 5 targets in a small cylinder along the whole range. Damage further increased by ~37%. This power should now work better when targeting on angled ground. Note that, when trying to hit multiple targets on angled ground, aiming for the target that is further from you will help the power draw a better line.
Hawk Eye: No longer grants 15% bonus damage on the next shot. Instead, it grants 15% bonus damage to all Encounter powers for 5s. Allies still receive this new buff at 50% effectiveness. Now causes the name of the power to show up in combat floaters when it is granted, so that allies may react accordingly. Recharge time reduced to 18s, down from 20s. This means at Rank 4, the Recharge time is now 15s. Damage dealt by this Power no longer receives double benefit from damage buffs.
Split the Sky: In addition to the existing damage-triggered effect, this power will now randomly target enemies in the area, causing them to suffer the same damage and snare as if they had attacked. Increased the base damage of this power by ~250%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% damage increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Activation time reduced to 1.5s, down from 2s. Reduced base recharge time to 18s, down from 22s.
Thorn Ward: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Increased the base duration of this power to 10s, up from 4s. However, each rank now grants 2s, down from 4s. The net result is that Rank 4 still lasts the same amount of time (16s), but lower ranks last longer. Note that the description in the powers window previously stated that each rank increased the duration by 6 seconds, but this was incorrect - it was really only increasing by 4 seconds.
Cordon of Arrows: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Marauder's Escape: Now fires off 3 quick shots straight ahead as you are jumping back. Ranking up this power no longer increases the AP it generates. Instead, it increases the damage this power deals. Base AP generation of the power has been increased by 50%. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 16s.
Powers: Class Features
Aspect of the Falcon: Now also increases your Ranged powers damage based on the distance to your target. Damage is increased by 1% for every 5' away you are from your target. Rank 4 now properly increases your range by an additional 3'.
Feats:
Hasty Retreat: Now also increases your movement speed by a small amount at all times, in addition to the existing proc effect.
Unflinching Aim: Aimed Shot now reduces the CD of your currently recharging Encounter powers (no longer just Ranged powers) by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1.0s (up from 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5s). In addition to its current functionality of increasing your Ranged Damage, this Feat now causes your hits from Aimed Shot to reduce the recharge time of your currently recharging Ranged Powers.
Longshot: Damage dealt by this feat increased to 20/40/60/80/100% of Weapon Damage, up from 10/20/30/40/50%. In addition, this is now actually Piercing damage, instead of having an undocumented feature of behaving somewhat like Piercing damage.
Predator: This Feat is no longer half as effective against players. Now increases damage against your Prey by 50%, up from 40%.
Combat and Trapper changes to follow.
Post edited by lirithiel on
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Thorned roots is the way to damage of the Trapper. It deals normally around 30-35% of my damage using either Constrictive/Longstrider/Cordon or Constrictive/Cordon/Hindering. Dungeon damage of Thornwd roots tends to be a bit on the low side (around 30%) probably because mobs die very fast, while on solo it goes to approximately 35%.
Each tree should have its way to damage and cooldown reduction and they should more or less give similar results through different playstyles.
Trapper has: Swiftness of the Fox (cooldown) Master Trapper (damage) Thorned Roots (damage)
Archery has: Bottomless Quiver (cooldown) Aimed Shot (cooldown) Unflinching aim (damage) Predator (damage) The rest in Archery is minor as of today
Combat has: Serpent Weave (cooldown-horrible). Shifting is already a loss of time... Scyting Blades (damage) Flurry (damage)
Taking Trapper as a Benchmark I think Bottomless quiver to 50% plus Aimed Shot should probably be close to target. Unflinching Aim should be better than Master Trapper so probably 40% is okay. Predator should mark as Prey all the targets of your encounter power and refresh every tens seconds as Master Trapper.
Combat:
Scything Blades should be doubled on at-wills Flurry should last 4 seconds up from two and damage should be increased Activating Flurry should reduce your cooldowns.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Comments
Single target damage will remain in the toilet because Rapid Shot hits like a wet noodle and it's our bread and butter at-will. Clear the Ground may even end up doing more damage than Rapid Shot to single targets. Currently AoE is not the problem - stuff melts with CtG, Blade Storm (OH feature included) and Plant Growth. We need help in the single-target department. One super-duper encounter (Gushing Wound) in our arsenal just won't cut it.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
A solid 60 -70% of this has been "Reduce this, and take this away" rather than giving beneficial input.
Contact:@EmeraldG1173
Main: EMERALD LEGEND
Unbuffed damage of melee at-wills, yeah CtG got a 50% buff, but that will take it to only about 1800 which I highly doubt will be enough
Buffed with throw caution plus combat feat for 5% per enemy in range, which were about 5 of em
Now let's compare to unbuffed at-wills for the GWF, seriously, even a GWF at base damage makes combat look like a joke
Fully buffed, which takes only a few seconds and so easy to maintain afterwards
Even with a P vorpal and skirmisher's gambit, a crit from rapid strike is only about 6-7k, a flurry crit is about 12k but since we lower our crit seeing this happen will be a lot more rare than nothing but orange numbers for a GWF, even steel blitz is hitting just as hard at about 10k
And just for a laugh even my conqueror GF so vastly superior, my GWF has 17k power, HR has 14k, and GF has 12k and they all use x3 greater bonding, the HR's melee at-wills are so far behind. It can only literally scratch things to death, even with the rain of swords multiproc
This is the heart of the problem. I don't how many times I have to copy/paste to get this across. Even powers like marauder's rush and boar charge are only hitting for 4-5k. Plant growth is the only AoE hitter combat has and a GWF can counter it by simply holding down WMS and achieving the same numbers minus the CD. Pure combat will never be viable is this isn't addressed. Small % buffs on the tree won't bump at-wills enough, they need their base damage drastically increased. My HR is so much more squishy than my GWF or GF that I nearly died just trying to take two screenshots. No bulk, no damage, no good chunk of extra deflect. How is combat supposed to even survive in the middle of a heated fight like a tank of bulky GWF can without dying to stray swings of elite mobs?
Contact:@EmeraldG1173
Main: EMERALD LEGEND
1) A *feat* in the Trapper tree.
2) An upgrade to Strong Grasping roots. Strong Grasping roots is byproduct of specific encounters and is not an encounter itself.
Again, Thorned Roots and Grasping Roots are NOT encounters. Just as:
Smolder is NOT an encounter.
Rimfire Smolder is NOT an encounter.
Fire of the Gods is NOT an encounter, and should not independently benefit from buffs as it currently does.
Lostmauth's Vengeance is not an encounter and also should not independently benefit from buffs, hence the fix.
Thorned Roots should not pump out the damage it is currently capable of doing, test dummy(ies) or not. The damage it deals is too significant on CC immune and high HP enemies.
The realistic compromise is to buff the HR base encounter damage for higher burst and nerf/fix Thorned Roots.
neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Grasping_Roots
if the encounter that does the damage and applies the root is being affected by said dread enchant; then when using the constricting arrow which applies strong grasping roots and the root is being turned into thorned roots, which also does damage, then dread will also affect thorned roots.
based on how it is worded in the tooltip in the feat tray and how it is worded on the neverwinter page. we can all agree that when using constricting arrow you are no long applying strong grasping roots but thorned roots.
since thorned roots is now being applied when you use the encounter that use to apply strong grasping roots, then the damage thorned roots does is now in sync with the encounter itself. the encounter is applying the damage and the dot and the dot is being affected by the dread enchant because of how the game mechanics work.
that is the best way i can prove that is works as it should game mechanic wise.
strong and weak grasping roots are not affected by dread enchant cause they don't do damage, but if they did then i bet dread would affect them too. as for other encounters that apply dots, i am not sure if they are affected by dread enchant, as i don't really use them.
@lirithiel @macjae
and people who cannot seem to logically disagree with any of the "reduce this, and take this away", so they resort to attack the posters instead.
devil's advocate.
let's keep our eyes on the prize here. all three spec lines need work to be brought up to a competitive level, not just Trappers. this cannot happen if every discussion focuses on Trappers.
yes roots are a class mechanic and not initially part of encounters. but if an at will would to apply a root then that root you just applied would become part of the at wills benefits and buffs as would if you apply a root using an encounter that root you just applied gains any buffs from encounters same with daily powers if you would to apply a root with a daily power and buffs that help daily powers will also affect that root you just applied.
their are affects that just buff roots like crushing roots, but just on wording alone you got to agree that thorned roots being affected by dread enchant is not a bug. and based on game mechanics it should be working as it is. if this is wrong and it is a bug only the devs can answer that, but as of right now based on how it is worded it should be working like it is till a dev says otherwise.
it becomes part of the encounter, just as it would if used by a daily or at will power. and should gain any buffs or debuffs of that power.
this is all based on my opinion and on how i think, so yes i might be wrong, but by just reading it and based on wording this is how i feel it works and why i think dread enchantment should be affecting thorned roots.
not just for hr's thorned roots, but i believe that dread enchant should affect any dot that comes from an encounter. it should affect the encounter as a whole.
pretty much even if litter is here their are some post who talk about hr as a whole.
The question is that why should we nerf the utility of an expensive enchant, which is newly introduced. If we think the damage of thorned roots should be transfered to some encounter damges, we should discuss about that. There are better ways to solve the problem. Be creative and be respect to the hard work others have done. I can see the point that thorned roots has around 40% damge of a trapper, which is a bit high. I would like to also do a test with plant growth in a rotation myself. The buffed gushing wound is apprantly also very viable in a party.
Join the Greycloaks
Ana-GWF SM Destroyer | Farseer-CW MoF Renegade | Leon-GF SM Tactician
Adrik Battlefate-DC DO Virtuous | Cassi Woodsheart-HR PF Trapper
Character: Vendetta
We were told trapper was just a damage increase needed now its all about nerf trapper trapper qqing ands trapper selfish. IN last 3 pages no trappers talking about Sotf. but now others still after trapper again to keep every one arguing then combat and archer paying for it and the same people laughing at us because we are fools
The goal there does not seem to be to ruin the class, but it does involve changing the playstyle of a class which some of us enjoy and want to keep. The point that there are a number of ways to even out the paths seems to have been lost.
But I don't think her case has been particularly helped by other people attempting to run interference for her or by the very obvious shills who are here to protect the interests of their own preferred classes in PVP.
The problem is, the developers have shown that they won't commit to the damage increases required to allow the class to perform well with the big changes to swiftness and thorned roots being suggested. The pass is drawing to a close, some adjustments have been made, but it seems unlikely now there will be any more dramatic changes to damage for powers.
So the people still pushing the nerf swiftness/thorned roots cases so late in this exercise are taking a substantial risk that if those changes are made, the developers will follow through with the buffs Ral and some of the others think will compensate. Unfortunately there is absolutely no guarantee that this will occur soon or even anytime later on.
The danger I see is that if for some reason Amenar does go along with it (hopefully after considering the outcome, rather than just the definitional arguments of what is and isn't a bug or an encounter power, which have been such great red herrings), we may end up with three bad paths. It really seems like a classic case of 'be careful what you wish for', and although I don't think people who aren't still playing should be barred from this discussion, the stakes for them are a lot lower if it goes wrong.
Anyway, we should really be using the little time we have left to do whatever else needs to be done to get archery and particularly combat, which seems most behind now, up to par. It doesn't matter if the class design isn't conceptually perfect, what matters is that people can enjoy and perform well with all three paths.
So if you see a weakness in archery or combat and have a good suggestion for fixing it, speak up. My guess is improving some of the feats in those trees is where the answer is now.
Thanks.
About melee at wills, a buff seems more than justified, it wont have huge impact in trapper or archer but combat desperatly need, to give a good comparisson search "beter neverwinter 63-0 kills" on youtube and watch how hard at-wills dealt back then.
Alot of the changes even relies in "limbo" as it´s part of patches done by @amenar but didn´t yet reached the preview, which is silly, and this cause fights in here as many ppl are unable to understand them before have tried them out, which in any case we all need be able to test them to figure out that the new changes aren´t bugged in some matter.
The time run short and this is the pissing part of it all, while we have a company (cryptic) that set a release date, and on the other side we have a community (us) that is unable to test changes and finish off the started work together, @amenar by now I guess has figured out that the HR of all classes is the one that require the most attention to get reworked.
I will ask this here now Loud, despite alone I wont be able to get this done, as eventually not even a petition will get this done, but eventually if everyone will shout for it we can raise a Louder voice, get the date of Module 10 pushed back to a september release date as we are only half way to have our HR class rework done.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Powers: At-wills
Aimed Shot: Charge time reduced to 1s at Rank 4. Damage of the actual hit reduced slightly, but damage per cast time increased ~23%. Charging this power is no longer interrupted by taking damage. It should now be easier to chain other powers after casting Aimed Shot.
Rapid Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Split Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Decreased the amount of time required to reach maximum charge by 0.25s. Increased the damage dealt at minimum charge by ~10%. The AoE targeting FX now more accurately represent the area that will be hit.
Electric Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Reduced the activation time of each shot by 0.3s. This has increased the overall DPS of the combo by ~33%. Damage increased ~33%.
Powers: Encounters
Commanding Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 9% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. In addition to the base damage increase, damage further increased ~50%. Recharge time reduced to 16s, down from 18s. Damage increased ~300%. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 18s.The debuff should no longer fail to work in certain situations.
Rain of Arrows: Decreased Recharge time to 16, down from 17. Increased radius to 10 feet, up from 6 feet. Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase.
Longstrider's Shot: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Damage further increased by ~45%. Buff no longer stacks if rapidly reapplied.
Hawk Shot: Activation time reduced to 1.7s, down from 2s. Changed the way this power clamps damage based on range. Previously, in order to deal maximum damage, you actually had to be at 80' (or further, with Aspect of the Falcon), and the damage kept getting smaller until you were almost touching the target. Now, the minimum damage is dealt to anyone within 20', and the maximum damage is dealt to anyone 60' away or further. The minimum damage has been increased greatly. Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 20s. This power is now an AoE power, and deals damage to up to 5 targets in a small cylinder along the whole range. Damage further increased by ~37%. This power should now work better when targeting on angled ground. Note that, when trying to hit multiple targets on angled ground, aiming for the target that is further from you will help the power draw a better line.
Hawk Eye: No longer grants 15% bonus damage on the next shot. Instead, it grants 15% bonus damage to all Encounter powers for 5s. Allies still receive this new buff at 50% effectiveness. Now causes the name of the power to show up in combat floaters when it is granted, so that allies may react accordingly. Recharge time reduced to 18s, down from 20s. This means at Rank 4, the Recharge time is now 15s. Damage dealt by this Power no longer receives double benefit from damage buffs.
Split the Sky: In addition to the existing damage-triggered effect, this power will now randomly target enemies in the area, causing them to suffer the same damage and snare as if they had attacked. Increased the base damage of this power by ~250%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% damage increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Activation time reduced to 1.5s, down from 2s. Reduced base recharge time to 18s, down from 22s.
Thorn Ward: Increased the base damage of this power by ~67%. This means players with low-quality gear will see as much as a 10% DPS increase, while players with high-quality gear will see a much smaller increase. Increased the base duration of this power to 10s, up from 4s. However, each rank now grants 2s, down from 4s. The net result is that Rank 4 still lasts the same amount of time (16s), but lower ranks last longer. Note that the description in the powers window previously stated that each rank increased the duration by 6 seconds, but this was incorrect - it was really only increasing by 4 seconds.
Cordon of Arrows: Now generates an appropriate amount of AP, instead of a very small amount.
Marauder's Escape: Now fires off 3 quick shots straight ahead as you are jumping back. Ranking up this power no longer increases the AP it generates. Instead, it increases the damage this power deals. Base AP generation of the power has been increased by 50%. Recharge time reduced to 15s, down from 16s.
Powers: Class Features
Aspect of the Falcon: Now also increases your Ranged powers damage based on the distance to your target. Damage is increased by 1% for every 5' away you are from your target. Rank 4 now properly increases your range by an additional 3'.
Feats:
Hasty Retreat: Now also increases your movement speed by a small amount at all times, in addition to the existing proc effect.
Unflinching Aim: Aimed Shot now reduces the CD of your currently recharging Encounter powers (no longer just Ranged powers) by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1.0s (up from 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4/0.5s). In addition to its current functionality of increasing your Ranged Damage, this Feat now causes your hits from Aimed Shot to reduce the recharge time of your currently recharging Ranged Powers.
Longshot: Damage dealt by this feat increased to 20/40/60/80/100% of Weapon Damage, up from 10/20/30/40/50%. In addition, this is now actually Piercing damage, instead of having an undocumented feature of behaving somewhat like Piercing damage.
Predator: This Feat is no longer half as effective against players. Now increases damage against your Prey by 50%, up from 40%.
Combat and Trapper changes to follow.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Each tree should have its way to damage and cooldown reduction and they should more or less give similar results through different playstyles.
Trapper has:
Swiftness of the Fox (cooldown)
Master Trapper (damage)
Thorned Roots (damage)
Archery has:
Bottomless Quiver (cooldown)
Aimed Shot (cooldown)
Unflinching aim (damage)
Predator (damage)
The rest in Archery is minor as of today
Combat has:
Serpent Weave (cooldown-horrible). Shifting is already a loss of time...
Scyting Blades (damage)
Flurry (damage)
Taking Trapper as a Benchmark I think Bottomless quiver to 50% plus Aimed Shot should probably be close to target.
Unflinching Aim should be better than Master Trapper so probably 40% is okay.
Predator should mark as Prey all the targets of your encounter power and refresh every tens seconds as Master Trapper.
Combat:
Scything Blades should be doubled on at-wills
Flurry should last 4 seconds up from two and damage should be increased
Activating Flurry should reduce your cooldowns.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80