Swiftness of the Fox: Revert tool tip back and change what it says to what it does on live.
Forestbond: Revert tool tip back and what it says to what it actually does on live.
Plant Growth: No target cap and thats not even a bug. The tooltip says "all enemies" and it has 20' radius AoE.
Aspect of the Serpent: We need it to be able to consume non damaging moves it's crucial to stacking each stance properly. Otherwise we have to use pointless at wills to build them.
**Stop messing with the Trapper playstyle it's not what needs "fixed". We do not do enough dmg to endure cds and be competitive with the top tier classes**
Taking away the ability to use 6 Encounters one after the other and then another 6 completely destroys the essence of a Trapper. We understood our role, we do less damage per Encounter Daily and At-Will but made up for it with combo's, tactics and a lot of skill. No-one knowledgeable asked for a buff who uses Trapper and I certainly do not recall hardly anyone thinking Trapper needed a massive nerf.
This is going to destroy any players, like myself, who pretty much only play the best most unique class in the game. I require a class which needs a lot of skill, understanding and complete concentration for extended periods of time.
Giving us players these cool downs will destroy any ability to combo/chain attacks together. At the moment, due to the fantastic synergy within the class, we are able to bounce in and out of the action, switch to different stances and use different Encounters depending on how combat is flowing. By adding these cool downs we will be restricted to using 6 Encounters and just waiting for the 1st one you used to be available again.
Also add in that a lot of us use the Dread Enchantment and Aspect of the Serpent, making our Weak At-Wills even more pointless to use. If we switch stance to use our stacks of Aspect of the Serpent we CANNOT use At-Wills until all stacks are expended... this requires to use Encounters 1st in the rotations, which of course we will have to wait like 5 seconds to be able to actually use.
During combat this will mean we will have extended periods of time where we can actually do NOTHING, we will not be able attack due to cool downs and stacks of AotS awaiting use. Buffing anything in compensation for this will never be enough. The only play style where you can button mash with combos is the Trapper, RIP
What should have happened is most At-Wills buffed by 100%. Archery Capstone should have been changed to add something like this to Prey "All Ranged damage is increased by 100% for 10 seconds and each Crit reduces Encounter cool downs by 0.3 seconds, 50% AP instantly, All Ranged damage is AoE at 20%, can activate every 20 seconds".
Combat could have added "All Melee damage is increased by 100% and 20% of it is piercing for 10 seconds, Deflect, Life Steal and Life Steal Severity 50% increase, 10% of Deflected damage is redirected at the attacker, can activate every 20 seconds"
Just made that up now so throwing numbers in the air rather than actually what could be good. But this is what I have been trying to say... Trapper did not really need touching at the moment, just Archery and Combat needed love and we go from there.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Regarding Swiftness of the Fox: the interaction with it granting additional effectiveness per target was definitely a bug - and one our engine is prone to, so we're very familiar with it. However, we're also quite happy with the Trapper rotation being very low CD Encounter focused. It is a very different feel from the other specs, and we're good with that. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fix bugs. If fixing it has ruins the way the build functions, we'll look to address that in an intentional way, instead of allowing a bug to persist that has the unintended side-effect of improving them in certain cases.
In cases where you're fighting a single-target, you end up missing out on a large part of the bugged-benefit of that Feat, and that just leaves you in weird cases where sometimes (large fights) you're OP, and sometimes (small fights) you feel weak. And on top of that, it's an interaction that isn't obvious or intuitive, so newer players have no idea what's going on.
While we obviously realize that changing this will have an impact, we need to make the change to evaluate how large the impact is, so we can make adjustments. I think it's likely you'll see further adjustments to Swiftness of the Fox before this change goes live.
I'll be reading through the rest of the feedback, and thank you all again for remembering to keep things civil and constructive.
ok guys now we cant complain or argue/bicker about bugs lets help amenar get our trappers and other hr builds working to be sub par or on par with other classes
is it possible amenar to have oak skin show on its tooltip how much defense it is giving the player and did oak skins defense buff get a changed at all or is it still the same. also how much defense does oak skin give?
Regarding Swiftness of the Fox: the interaction with it granting additional effectiveness per target was definitely a bug - and one our engine is prone to, so we're very familiar with it. However, we're also quite happy with the Trapper rotation being very low CD Encounter focused. It is a very different feel from the other specs, and we're good with that. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fix bugs. If fixing it has ruins the way the build functions, we'll look to address that in an intentional way, instead of allowing a bug to persist that has the unintended side-effect of improving them in certain cases.
In cases where you're fighting a single-target, you end up missing out on a large part of the bugged-benefit of that Feat, and that just leaves you in weird cases where sometimes (large fights) you're OP, and sometimes (small fights) you feel weak. And on top of that, it's an interaction that isn't obvious or intuitive, so newer players have no idea what's going on.
While we obviously realize that changing this will have an impact, we need to make the change to evaluate how large the impact is, so we can make adjustments. I think it's likely you'll see further adjustments to Swiftness of the Fox before this change goes live.
I'll be reading through the rest of the feedback, and thank you all again for remembering to keep things civil and constructive.
Thank you for your response on this and it's good to know you understand the issue on both sides of the fence. I sure appreciate you taking the time to interact with us on a regular basis (for the time being at least). Keep it up @amenar.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Regarding Swiftness of the Fox: the interaction with it granting additional effectiveness per target was definitely a bug - and one our engine is prone to, so we're very familiar with it. However, we're also quite happy with the Trapper rotation being very low CD Encounter focused. It is a very different feel from the other specs, and we're good with that. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fix bugs. If fixing it has ruins the way the build functions, we'll look to address that in an intentional way, instead of allowing a bug to persist that has the unintended side-effect of improving them in certain cases.
In cases where you're fighting a single-target, you end up missing out on a large part of the bugged-benefit of that Feat, and that just leaves you in weird cases where sometimes (large fights) you're OP, and sometimes (small fights) you feel weak. And on top of that, it's an interaction that isn't obvious or intuitive, so newer players have no idea what's going on.
While we obviously realize that changing this will have an impact, we need to make the change to evaluate how large the impact is, so we can make adjustments. I think it's likely you'll see further adjustments to Swiftness of the Fox before this change goes live.
I'll be reading through the rest of the feedback, and thank you all again for remembering to keep things civil and constructive.
Thanks, amenar. Comparing the cool down of HR to other classes, I think HR needs a global cool down reduction. Another approach could be that the base damage of HR get a boost. And then make the swiftness of the fox a trade feat: Trapper loses a bit damage and we get a large cool down reduction to make the current trapper HR playing style achievable. Of course I agree fox cunning in any case should not be spammable.
SotF can cause just TWO ranged encounters, Constricting Arrow and Fox's Cunning, for example, to fully cool down THREE melee encounters with mob size of 3+. I do this daily.
Now that SotF is fixed on preview, consider slotting some Silveries in your companion's offensive slots that will boost recovery.
I know some equipment has two offensive slots, but let's count that out and say you can slot up to three R12 Silveries with 3x R12 bondings. That's just shy of 6,000 recovery, equivalent to a 30% recharge speed increase! Sure, you might not be quite that stacked but I trust you understand there is a workaround here. (There is also the option of running with Aura of Wisdom Paladins.)
"But I'll lose crit": There are so many ways to gain crit chance now with the new boons. Plus, certain classes can buff your crit chance and new companions granting increased crit chance are surfacing.
"But I'll lose power": Who is to say amenar and the development team are NOT going to further buff HR base / encounter damage?
Amenar has already already made it clear they want the HR to be competitive with other classes in terms of DPS. He has also said they are happy with the fix to SotF. Help them by providing constructive feedback: the HR needs a base damage buff.
Regarding Swiftness of the Fox: the interaction with it granting additional effectiveness per target was definitely a bug - and one our engine is prone to, so we're very familiar with it. However, we're also quite happy with the Trapper rotation being very low CD Encounter focused. It is a very different feel from the other specs, and we're good with that. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fix bugs. If fixing it has ruins the way the build functions, we'll look to address that in an intentional way, instead of allowing a bug to persist that has the unintended side-effect of improving them in certain cases.
In cases where you're fighting a single-target, you end up missing out on a large part of the bugged-benefit of that Feat, and that just leaves you in weird cases where sometimes (large fights) you're OP, and sometimes (small fights) you feel weak. And on top of that, it's an interaction that isn't obvious or intuitive, so newer players have no idea what's going on.
While we obviously realize that changing this will have an impact, we need to make the change to evaluate how large the impact is, so we can make adjustments. I think it's likely you'll see further adjustments to Swiftness of the Fox before this change goes live.
I'll be reading through the rest of the feedback, and thank you all again for remembering to keep things civil and constructive.
thanks for reading our comments. As you can tell Trapper did not have consistent cool downs. Since you are with us every step of the way I will spend several Hours on preview and test as much as possible for you and keep it to feed back of finding. I am actually thinking we may come out of this as a better class that can be competitive and fun. I spent 2years getting to how I play as a trapper and if you can keep that working I thank you.
Note; Rayrdan above is pretty close to how HR should be and his are the best I have seen for a balance but in the end I think it will end up with 2 paths trapper and archery being the go to trees
SotF can cause just TWO ranged encounters, Constricting Arrow and Fox's Cunning, for example, to fully cool down THREE melee encounters with mob size of 3+. I do this daily.
Now that SotF is fixed on preview, consider slotting some Silveries in your companion's offensive slots that will boost recovery.
I know some equipment has two offensive slots, but let's count that out and say you can slot up to three R12 Silveries with 3x R12 bondings. That's just shy of 6,000 recovery, equivalent to a 30% recharge speed increase! Sure, you might not be quite that stacked but I trust you understand there is a workaround here. (There is also the option of running with Aura of Wisdom Paladins.)
"But I'll lose crit": There are so many ways to gain crit chance now with the new boons. Plus, certain classes can buff your crit chance and new companions granting increased crit chance are surfacing.
"But I'll lose power": Who is to say amenar and the development team are NOT going to further buff HR base / encounter damage?
Amenar has already already made it clear they want the HR to be competitive with other classes in terms of DPS. He has also said they are happy with the fix to SotF. Help them by providing constructive feedback: the HR needs a base damage buff.
is switfness is broken i really dont know what to say about bondings btw. will never use them
You cant count on bonding for recovery. Get real if you don't think that before long there will be nerf to bonding in some way you have not played NW very long. So counting on bonding for your build is a bad idea Bonding should be for boost only not something that is a must have to make your toon work
Swiftness of the Fox: Revert tool tip back and change what it says to what it does on live.
Forestbond: Revert tool tip back and what it says to what it actually does on live.
Plant Growth: No target cap and thats not even a bug. The tooltip says "all enemies" and it has 20' radius AoE.
Aspect of the Serpent: We need it to be able to consume non damaging moves it's crucial to stacking each stance properly. Otherwise we have to use pointless at wills to build them.
**Stop messing with the Trapper playstyle it's not what needs "fixed". We do not do enough dmg to endure cds and be competitive with the top tier classes**
Taking away the ability to use 6 Encounters one after the other and then another 6 completely destroys the essence of a Trapper. We understood our role, we do less damage per Encounter Daily and At-Will but made up for it with combo's, tactics and a lot of skill. No-one knowledgeable asked for a buff who uses Trapper and I certainly do not recall hardly anyone thinking Trapper needed a massive nerf.
This is going to destroy any players, like myself, who pretty much only play the best most unique class in the game. I require a class which needs a lot of skill, understanding and complete concentration for extended periods of time.
Giving us players these cool downs will destroy any ability to combo/chain attacks together. At the moment, due to the fantastic synergy within the class, we are able to bounce in and out of the action, switch to different stances and use different Encounters depending on how combat is flowing. By adding these cool downs we will be restricted to using 6 Encounters and just waiting for the 1st one you used to be available again.
Also add in that a lot of us use the Dread Enchantment and Aspect of the Serpent, making our Weak At-Wills even more pointless to use. If we switch stance to use our stacks of Aspect of the Serpent we CANNOT use At-Wills until all stacks are expended... this requires to use Encounters 1st in the rotations, which of course we will have to wait like 5 seconds to be able to actually use.
During combat this will mean we will have extended periods of time where we can actually do NOTHING, we will not be able attack due to cool downs and stacks of AotS awaiting use. Buffing anything in compensation for this will never be enough. The only play style where you can button mash with combos is the Trapper, RIP
What should have happened is most At-Wills buffed by 100%. Archery Capstone should have been changed to add something like this to Prey "All Ranged damage is increased by 100% for 10 seconds and each Crit reduces Encounter cool downs by 0.3 seconds, 50% AP instantly, All Ranged damage is AoE at 20%, can activate every 20 seconds".
Combat could have added "All Melee damage is increased by 100% and 20% of it is piercing for 10 seconds, Deflect, Life Steal and Life Steal Severity 50% increase, 10% of Deflected damage is redirected at the attacker, can activate every 20 seconds"
Just made that up now so throwing numbers in the air rather than actually what could be good. But this is what I have been trying to say... Trapper did not really need touching at the moment, just Archery and Combat needed love and we go from there.
Hi Amenar,
I now understand that the development team believes that swiftness of the fox operates as a bug and not as an improperly expressed tool tip on how the skill functions. The drawback to changing it to anything other than how it currently work - is that it completely breaks the play style of being a trapper as the class currently functions.
This ranger upgrade process began with two weak trees with one slightly underperforming tree and maybe needing a single spell (daily dmg upgraded?) to bring it inline with other classes. The proposed change to swiftness of the fox fundamentally alters a playstyle for nearly every ranger in the game who plays (because honestly, anyone who isn't trapper is just playing that way out of love, not any competitive spirit) that has existed for quite some time. Are trapper HRs currently game breaking with swiftness of the fox? I think that's the question that should be asked. If it's NOT hurting the game, why not just make the tooltip state how it currently functions so no one can cry foul. Working As Intended. Is there anyone on the server who's not a troll who thinks that the way the class tree currently sits is broken from a dps/game play mechanic standpoint? Rangers certainly are not competitive in pvp by a long shot even with swiftness as it sits. I'd rate us as one of the lowest classes and I have BIS tenacity gear. My toon is built for pvp - boons, feats, and all and I can't compete with one shotting GFs or even gap close CWs with the proposed changes to maurader. Even if I'm not competitive, the class is FUN to play, it's like a swiss army knife... these changes just don't sound fun and even worse:
To a player, the proposed change means millions of AD in order to regain functionality of a fundamental style of play that has been present for a significant amount of time. Imagine if deflect didn't work the way it was intended for rogues, or that unstoppable suddenly was found to be not working as it was envisioned? Why not work within the confines of the both the history of the game AND the vision of the class to make something that aligns with what the devs see AND what the players enjoy?
I was so excited to see ranger get some much needed love! I felt renewed! After the proposed changes and hearing about the vision right now for rangers though, that energy is gone. I'm still trying to be helpful, hopeful and positive, but man oh man, I just don't feel like we're moving the class in the right direction at all.
You cant count on bonding for recovery. Get real if you don't think that before long there will be nerf to bonding in some way you have not played NW very long. So counting on bonding for your build is a bad idea Bonding should be for boost only not something that is a must have to make your toon work
Ara
and +1 to rayrdans Ideas in a previous post
thanks for you support!
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited July 2016
So i've been reading everybody's opinion since amenar launched the last patch notes, after giving it a go on preview here are my sugestions, and the ones given by you i think should be implemented:
Aspect of the Falcon: This sounds good on paper. Gives you additional range, which allows you to get a few hits in before the target can approach you. Unfortunately, this only supports solo leveling play and loses it's effectiveness once you get into end-game or fight in tight places. While it supports Stillness of the Forest, it also excludes you from many of the group buffs, which require you to be within range of your team. Please consider reworking this class feat. Too much range is a faulty mechanic that works against the HR. Stillness of the Forest, Longstrider Shot's buff and Hawk Shot suffer from the exact same thing. My suggestion: If I look at the class feats icon and name I see a falcon, looking at its prey, knowing exactly where and when to strike. Critical chance/critical severity comes to mind. Maybe a "for ranged at-wills/encounters/dailies" condition added to it. I feel like Archery (and as players who play the 2 other trees have reported) and the other trees suffer from not being able to deal high spikes of damage. Laying the fundations for crit builds could be a solution to this.
I Have to agree, the higher aura of courage i ever got as trapper in act logs stood as 15% while archery never more than 2%. I promote a buff to this class feature but a small one, since Artifact off-hand can boost this power.
Hmm, wonder why archery didn't get piercing damage. Bonus damage as piercing damage the further away you are. Oh well, maybe I'm nuts. Logic has no place in fantasy.
It makes sence, archery has almost no viable use in pvp exept sniping in high places, making your pray take piercing damage will affect 0 pve and actually be usefull in pvp, combat have piercing blades that doesn't act like piercing at all, it should deal 40% of the initial strike but it doesn't, perhaps it works as 100% RI and gets affected by DR and tenacity, should be piercing...... anyway i would like it to be implemented in trapper too, it could be the solution for HR in pvp.
Ambush does have a chance of being reworked into something, or you have a Christmas sack of bear traps on you and can scatter a dozen on the field at once.
Agreed a line of traps, hanging trap, hole trap or whatever it could be reworked in that sence.
.....make the combat tree have more deflect/deflect severity and make it completely mobile as being on your toes is what hunter rangers are about and combat hr's. make their tree better when in melee stance
Strongly agree, back in mod 5 life steal was much more reliable than now. Now a trapper with 15% life steal stacked will easly survive over combat due to mobility, adding deflect/deflect severity to combat would indeed be a good change in terms of survival, but specially deflect severity and life steal severity since deflect can just be stacked by ignoring all the other defencive buffs and reli on the life steal provided by the feats on the tree.
// Predator : A secondary effect can be added to this skill. Targets affected by AoE powers will get the debuff as well but only 1 of them will remain at one of the targets after the target is hit.
Swiftness of the fox was doubtlessly too versatil and powerfull. Stacking recovery is not much armfull in endgame, most HR's reach the RI cap easly with bonding runestones so invest in equipment with arm pen is a nonsence, and in some cases the pieces of gear you want to use have no power/crit option for example 3 pieces of dusk gear for the SH/mount/companion synergy. Basicly if you want to have full recharge speed you will have to sacrifice some power, but not a huge amount, so aditionally to the current recharge speed increase:
This feat will increase the effictivness of your recovery stat by 20/40/60/80/100%.
------------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Power : Aimed strike:
Cast time reduced would make this power much easier to use.
------------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Class feature : Cruel recovery:
There is no reason to slot this class feauture as it grants almost no survival. A cooldown of 5 seconds and increase of temp hp to also something around 5% would be a solution to it.
Stormstep action gives 150 recover from off hand bonus.....very low
----------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Class feature : Twin blade storm:
Twin blade storm does seem good but on pratice it fails, simple fix, instead +4% per rank, +5% and +3% from off hand artifact weapon.
----------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Feat : Crushing roots Thorned roots instead dealing 450% weapon damage imedeatly to imune targets, scaled down to 250% but now they will take 150% of weapon damage ever second and 80% of your weapon damage every 0,5 seconds as piercing damage, this would help in pvp and still keep the intended damage in pve.
---------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Feat : Stillness of the forest: Stillness of the forest should have aggro reduction associated to avoid mobs attacks when the tank is inexperient, this alone is a huge damage boost, just by increasing reliability of the feat.
---------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Power: Carefull attack Carefull attack should have a fixed dot with a 1 second cooldown and should only be activated if the critter takes damage, from any scource.
@amenar can you tell me when you usually upload the versions on preview, day/hour pls or you upload when the amount of content justifies?
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Warlock damage in the current live build is currently coming primarily from a couple of massive bugs, which are being fixed and the class is being tuned up to be in a much better place overall.
A fix and rework for SotF can make it perform much more consistently whether you're fighting many targets or just one, and Amenar does say they don't want to break the trapper playstyle.
Very happy that SWOTF will be fine tuned so that the bug can be fixed, and we wont suffer from that awkward moment where we switch stances and are still on cooldown.
Bonding runestones have already been re-balanced; I doubt they'll change them yet again.
If its true that the devs never intended SotF multi-procing, then it makes sense for them to remove that behavior and see how Trappers perform w/o it. Before, if they were collecting any data about a Trapper's performance, the 'bug' would have obfuscated how well Trappers were meant to do in AoE vs. single target scenarios, and keeping that in place would risk making Trappers more powerful than they intended if they buff powers to boost Combat, Archery, and Trapper's single-target performance.
Feedback: Feat : Stillness of the forest: Your Crit serverity is increased 10/15/20/25/30% as long as u are not taking any damage for 5 second. Additionally, while no foes are within 25 feet of you, you have a 5/10/15/20/25% increased chance to crit.
Feedback: Offhand power : Aspect of falcon Your damage is increased by 10% as long as this class feature is active
Thank you @amenar for clarifying whether swiftness was bugged or not. Now that we've established that, let's try move on towards providing productive feedback.
Regarding swiftness to the fox, I don't think the core of the problem regarding HR cooldowns is the feat necessarily, it's the overall base cooldowns that hrs have. Swiftness of the fox is already the strongest cooldown feat in the game.
As a few other posters have mentioned, hrs have the longest cooldowns in the game, especially if you take into consideration archery and combat playstyle where one stance is generally considered filler skills for the main stance, especially when most hr skills tend to have only one strong counterpart (only one stance's version of encounter tends to be strong damage-wise). I think hr needs an overall cooldown reduction rather than increasing the effectiveness of a feat since that's honestly just shoehorning players into the feat.
FEEDBACK: reduce all cooldowns by 20-30%.
I think one last thing that needs to be established is that with swiftness no longer giving instant cooldown resets, hrs will need a base damage buff as both archery and combat still lack a lot of damage and trapper has lost a fair portion of its own.
(Strum's post is about halfway down the page. Linking right to a post doesn't seem to work at all.)
I was mistaken. Fair enough, and thanks for the heads up. Strange that they are going back to it again this quickly. But we'll see how much it ends up being. (to be fair, none of my toons have high ranked bondings and its not hard to get decent Recovery w/ just an augment, or augment-level boosts from bondings)
Thank you @amenar for clarifying whether swiftness was bugged or not. Now that we've established that, let's try move on towards providing productive feedback.
Regarding swiftness to the fox, I don't think the core of the problem regarding HR cooldowns is the feat necessarily, it's the overall base cooldowns that hrs have. Swiftness of the fox is already the strongest cooldown feat in the game.
As a few other posters have mentioned, hrs have the longest cooldowns in the game, especially if you take into consideration archery and combat playstyle where one stance is generally considered filler skills for the main stance, especially when most hr skills tend to have only one strong counterpart (only one stance's version of encounter tends to be strong damage-wise). I think hr needs an overall cooldown reduction rather than increasing the effectiveness of a feat since that's honestly just shoehorning players into the feat.
FEEDBACK: reduce all cooldowns by 20-30%.
Also Swiftness is kind of counterproductive when it comes to stacking recovery, since it actually effectively reduces the effect of recovery by 45% i.e. recovery is 45% less effective for trappers than other classes/paths. Perhaps changing the feat to give a recharge speed increase of the same amount instead of a direct cooldown increase while still maintaining the same reduction rate might help. Maybe changing it to work like cw spell twisting would be good, so that recovery is now no longer rather useless on a trapper. Something like swiftness working somewhat like serpent except without removing stacks, gaining an additive 30% recharge speed increase (the stat recovery gives, which is calculated as half of the value roughly because it's a divisive stat, also subject to relative diminishing returns so it may need adjusting), for the opposing stance every skill you use, and stacks up to 3 times. This would mean its still the same as the current cooldown reduction, but also means you don't lose the effectiveness of stacking recovery. But then again, this is somewhat of a lesser issue.
I think one last thing that needs to be established is that with swiftness no longer giving instant cooldown resets, hrs will need a base damage buff as both archery and combat still lack a lot of damage and trapper has lost a fair portion of its own.
So out of all this, is trapper in a good state with all the changes excluding swiftness of the fox?
You cant ask without SotF because it changes the way of many power to work.
Depends, for example using longstrider, binding arrow, contricting arrow used to be a rotation that would keep a trapper far away from the targets, give continuous boost to the team and have CC, now that rotation is not/much less viable, there is a big gap using only oak skin to refresh your ranged powers, maybe using clearing the ground as complement would work. But for example using ls, plant growth and fox shift rotation on single target it's perfectly fine. So it all depends on the rotation you were using, mine still works nice (ls, PG, Constricting arrow). But many became obsulete.
Thank you @amenar for clarifying whether swiftness was bugged or not. Now that we've established that, let's try move on towards providing productive feedback.
Regarding swiftness to the fox, I don't think the core of the problem regarding HR cooldowns is the feat necessarily, it's the overall base cooldowns that hrs have. Swiftness of the fox is already the strongest cooldown feat in the game.
As a few other posters have mentioned, hrs have the longest cooldowns in the game, especially if you take into consideration archery and combat playstyle where one stance is generally considered filler skills for the main stance, especially when most hr skills tend to have only one strong counterpart (only one stance's version of encounter tends to be strong damage-wise). I think hr needs an overall cooldown reduction rather than increasing the effectiveness of a feat since that's honestly just shoehorning players into the feat.
FEEDBACK: reduce all cooldowns by 20-30%.
I think one last thing that needs to be established is that with swiftness no longer giving instant cooldown resets, hrs will need a base damage buff as both archery and combat still lack a lot of damage and trapper has lost a fair portion of its own.
So out of all this, is trapper in a good state with all the changes excluding swiftness of the fox?
You cant ask without SotF because it changes the way of many power to work.
Depends, for example using longstrider, binding arrow, contricting arrow used to be a rotation that would keep a trapper far away from the targets, give continuous boost to the team and have CC, now that rotation is not/much less viable, there is a big gap using only oak skin to refresh your ranged powers, maybe using clearing the ground as complement would work. But for example using ls, plant growth and fox shift rotation on single target it's perfectly fine. So it all depends on the rotation you were using, mine still works nice (ls, PG, Constricting arrow). But many became obsulete.
This is exactly why I have been so vocal, I could see that coming a mile away. People are going to be shoehorned into using 1 rotation that works. All other rotations are more than likely going to become obsolete and/or useless
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Bug: Marauder's Escape The player still takes damage, even after activating the power
Just sit in front of an enemy, wait until they are about to attack, then activate the power before the enemy attack actually lands. The player will still take damage.
Slow the video down to .25 and you'll clearly see I activated the power before the enemy's attack landed.
I apologize if I posted this incorrectly, If it counts, I tried!
Amenar when/if you get the chance, please let me know if these are actually bugs. I didnt see anyone else actually bug them like this.
P.S. These powers function like this in Live, I tested to make sure. It's just that if you are fixing stuff, these are at least worth a look. These were both found and recorded on the preview server. Also occurring in Live.
lets take baby steps in proving hr's. lets aim for sub par for pve then aim fo ron par for pvp. if pvp is somewhat more balanced then pve should be fine. (all speculation)
So i've been reading everybody's opinion since amenar launched the last patch notes, after giving it a go on preview here are my sugestions, and the ones given by you i think should be implemented:
Aspect of the Falcon: This sounds good on paper. Gives you additional range, which allows you to get a few hits in before the target can approach you. Unfortunately, this only supports solo leveling play and loses it's effectiveness once you get into end-game or fight in tight places. While it supports Stillness of the Forest, it also excludes you from many of the group buffs, which require you to be within range of your team. Please consider reworking this class feat. Too much range is a faulty mechanic that works against the HR. Stillness of the Forest, Longstrider Shot's buff and Hawk Shot suffer from the exact same thing. My suggestion: If I look at the class feats icon and name I see a falcon, looking at its prey, knowing exactly where and when to strike. Critical chance/critical severity comes to mind. Maybe a "for ranged at-wills/encounters/dailies" condition added to it. I feel like Archery (and as players who play the 2 other trees have reported) and the other trees suffer from not being able to deal high spikes of damage. Laying the fundations for crit builds could be a solution to this.
I Have to agree, the higher aura of courage i ever got as trapper in act logs stood as 15% while archery never more than 2%. I promote a buff to this class feature but a small one, since Artifact off-hand can boost this power.
Hmm, wonder why archery didn't get piercing damage. Bonus damage as piercing damage the further away you are. Oh well, maybe I'm nuts. Logic has no place in fantasy.
It makes sence, archery has almost no viable use in pvp exept sniping in high places, making your pray take piercing damage will affect 0 pve and actually be usefull in pvp, combat have piercing blades that doesn't act like piercing at all, it should deal 40% of the initial strike but it doesn't, perhaps it works as 100% RI and gets affected by DR and tenacity, should be piercing...... anyway i would like it to be implemented in trapper too, it could be the solution for HR in pvp.
Ambush does have a chance of being reworked into something, or you have a Christmas sack of bear traps on you and can scatter a dozen on the field at once.
Agreed a line of traps, hanging trap, hole trap or whatever it could be reworked in that sence.
.....make the combat tree have more deflect/deflect severity and make it completely mobile as being on your toes is what hunter rangers are about and combat hr's. make their tree better when in melee stance
Strongly agree, back in mod 5 life steal was much more reliable than now. Now a trapper with 15% life steal stacked will easly survive over combat due to mobility, adding deflect/deflect severity to combat would indeed be a good change in terms of survival, but specially deflect severity and life steal severity since deflect can just be stacked by ignoring all the other defencive buffs and reli on the life steal provided by the feats on the tree.
// Predator : A secondary effect can be added to this skill. Targets affected by AoE powers will get the debuff as well but only 1 of them will remain at one of the targets after the target is hit.
Swiftness of the fox was doubtlessly too versatil and powerfull. Stacking recovery is not much armfull in endgame, most HR's reach the RI cap easly with bonding runestones so invest in equipment with arm pen is a nonsence, and in some cases the pieces of gear you want to use have no power/crit option for example 3 pieces of dusk gear for the SH/mount/companion synergy. Basicly if you want to have full recharge speed you will have to sacrifice some power, but not a huge amount, so aditionally to the current recharge speed increase:
This feat will increase the effictivness of your recovery stat by 20/40/60/80/100%.
------------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Power : Aimed strike:
Cast time reduced would make this power much easier to use.
------------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Class feature : Cruel recovery:
There is no reason to slot this class feauture as it grants almost no survival. A cooldown of 5 seconds and increase of temp hp to also something around 5% would be a solution to it.
Stormstep action gives 150 recover from off hand bonus.....very low
----------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Class feature : Twin blade storm:
Twin blade storm does seem good but on pratice it fails, simple fix, instead +4% per rank, +5% and +3% from off hand artifact weapon.
----------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Feat : Crushing roots Thorned roots instead dealing 450% weapon damage imedeatly to imune targets, scaled down to 250% but now they will take 150% of weapon damage ever second and 80% of your weapon damage every 0,5 seconds as piercing damage, this would help in pvp and still keep the intended damage in pve.
---------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Feat : Stillness of the forest: Stillness of the forest should have aggro reduction associated to avoid mobs attacks when the tank is inexperient, this alone is a huge damage boost, just by increasing reliability of the feat.
---------------------------------------------------------- Feedback: Power: Carefull attack Carefull attack should have a fixed dot with a 1 second cooldown and should only be activated if the critter takes damage, from any scource.
@amenar can you tell me when you usually upload the versions on preview, day/hour pls or you upload when the amount of content justifies?
+1 marauder escape should also provide some form of movement impairing affect that does no damage. an option for battlehoned is-whenever you deal damage increase a stat by ?% for ? seconds. (stacking would make it more useful as a class feature) or whenever you kill a foe gain increase movement for 10 seconds. (allow it to stack and have the stacks increase the time)
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Marauders stinks.
Flee backwards, soon as you make your next move they're already swarmed around you.
Comments
Taking away the ability to use 6 Encounters one after the other and then another 6 completely destroys the essence of a Trapper. We understood our role, we do less damage per Encounter Daily and At-Will but made up for it with combo's, tactics and a lot of skill. No-one knowledgeable asked for a buff who uses Trapper and I certainly do not recall hardly anyone thinking Trapper needed a massive nerf.
This is going to destroy any players, like myself, who pretty much only play the best most unique class in the game. I require a class which needs a lot of skill, understanding and complete concentration for extended periods of time.
Giving us players these cool downs will destroy any ability to combo/chain attacks together. At the moment, due to the fantastic synergy within the class, we are able to bounce in and out of the action, switch to different stances and use different Encounters depending on how combat is flowing. By adding these cool downs we will be restricted to using 6 Encounters and just waiting for the 1st one you used to be available again.
Also add in that a lot of us use the Dread Enchantment and Aspect of the Serpent, making our Weak At-Wills even more pointless to use. If we switch stance to use our stacks of Aspect of the Serpent we CANNOT use At-Wills until all stacks are expended... this requires to use Encounters 1st in the rotations, which of course we will have to wait like 5 seconds to be able to actually use.
During combat this will mean we will have extended periods of time where we can actually do NOTHING, we will not be able attack due to cool downs and stacks of AotS awaiting use. Buffing anything in compensation for this will never be enough. The only play style where you can button mash with combos is the Trapper, RIP
What should have happened is most At-Wills buffed by 100%.
Archery Capstone should have been changed to add something like this to Prey "All Ranged damage is increased by 100% for 10 seconds and each Crit reduces Encounter cool downs by 0.3 seconds, 50% AP instantly, All Ranged damage is AoE at 20%, can activate every 20 seconds".
Combat could have added "All Melee damage is increased by 100% and 20% of it is piercing for 10 seconds, Deflect, Life Steal and Life Steal Severity 50% increase, 10% of Deflected damage is redirected at the attacker, can activate every 20 seconds"
Just made that up now so throwing numbers in the air rather than actually what could be good. But this is what I have been trying to say... Trapper did not really need touching at the moment, just Archery and Combat needed love and we go from there.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
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is it possible amenar to have oak skin show on its tooltip how much defense it is giving the player and did oak skins defense buff get a changed at all or is it still the same. also how much defense does oak skin give?
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Now that SotF is fixed on preview, consider slotting some Silveries in your companion's offensive slots that will boost recovery.
I know some equipment has two offensive slots, but let's count that out and say you can slot up to three R12 Silveries with 3x R12 bondings. That's just shy of 6,000 recovery, equivalent to a 30% recharge speed increase! Sure, you might not be quite that stacked but I trust you understand there is a workaround here. (There is also the option of running with Aura of Wisdom Paladins.)
"But I'll lose crit": There are so many ways to gain crit chance now with the new boons. Plus, certain classes can buff your crit chance and new companions granting increased crit chance are surfacing.
"But I'll lose power": Who is to say amenar and the development team are NOT going to further buff HR base / encounter damage?
Amenar has already already made it clear they want the HR to be competitive with other classes in terms of DPS. He has also said they are happy with the fix to SotF. Help them by providing constructive feedback: the HR needs a base damage buff.
Note;
Rayrdan above is pretty close to how HR should be and his are the best I have seen for a balance but in the end I think it will end up with 2 paths trapper and archery being the go to trees
will never use them
Ara
and +1 to rayrdans Ideas in a previous post
I now understand that the development team believes that swiftness of the fox operates as a bug and not as an improperly expressed tool tip on how the skill functions. The drawback to changing it to anything other than how it currently work - is that it completely breaks the play style of being a trapper as the class currently functions.
This ranger upgrade process began with two weak trees with one slightly underperforming tree and maybe needing a single spell (daily dmg upgraded?) to bring it inline with other classes. The proposed change to swiftness of the fox fundamentally alters a playstyle for nearly every ranger in the game who plays (because honestly, anyone who isn't trapper is just playing that way out of love, not any competitive spirit) that has existed for quite some time. Are trapper HRs currently game breaking with swiftness of the fox? I think that's the question that should be asked. If it's NOT hurting the game, why not just make the tooltip state how it currently functions so no one can cry foul. Working As Intended. Is there anyone on the server who's not a troll who thinks that the way the class tree currently sits is broken from a dps/game play mechanic standpoint? Rangers certainly are not competitive in pvp by a long shot even with swiftness as it sits. I'd rate us as one of the lowest classes and I have BIS tenacity gear. My toon is built for pvp - boons, feats, and all and I can't compete with one shotting GFs or even gap close CWs with the proposed changes to maurader. Even if I'm not competitive, the class is FUN to play, it's like a swiss army knife... these changes just don't sound fun and even worse:
To a player, the proposed change means millions of AD in order to regain functionality of a fundamental style of play that has been present for a significant amount of time. Imagine if deflect didn't work the way it was intended for rogues, or that unstoppable suddenly was found to be not working as it was envisioned? Why not work within the confines of the both the history of the game AND the vision of the class to make something that aligns with what the devs see AND what the players enjoy?
I was so excited to see ranger get some much needed love! I felt renewed! After the proposed changes and hearing about the vision right now for rangers though, that energy is gone. I'm still trying to be helpful, hopeful and positive, but man oh man, I just don't feel like we're moving the class in the right direction at all.
Thank you for listening.
----------------------------------------------------------- It makes sence, archery has almost no viable use in pvp exept sniping in high places, making your pray take piercing damage will affect 0 pve and actually be usefull in pvp, combat have piercing blades that doesn't act like piercing at all, it should deal 40% of the initial strike but it doesn't, perhaps it works as 100% RI and gets affected by DR and tenacity, should be piercing...... anyway i would like it to be implemented in trapper too, it could be the solution for HR in pvp.
----------------------------------------------------------- Agreed a line of traps, hanging trap, hole trap or whatever it could be reworked in that sence.
----------------------------------------------------------- Strongly agree, back in mod 5 life steal was much more reliable than now. Now a trapper with 15% life steal stacked will easly survive over combat due to mobility, adding deflect/deflect severity to combat would indeed be a good change in terms of survival, but specially deflect severity and life steal severity since deflect can just be stacked by ignoring all the other defencive buffs and reli on the life steal provided by the feats on the tree.
------------------------------------------------------------ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Feedback: Feat: Swiftness of the fox:
Swiftness of the fox was doubtlessly too versatil and powerfull. Stacking recovery is not much armfull in endgame, most HR's reach the RI cap easly with bonding runestones so invest in equipment with arm pen is a nonsence, and in some cases the pieces of gear you want to use have no power/crit option for example 3 pieces of dusk gear for the SH/mount/companion synergy.
Basicly if you want to have full recharge speed you will have to sacrifice some power, but not a huge amount, so aditionally to the current recharge speed increase:
This feat will increase the effictivness of your recovery stat by 20/40/60/80/100%.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Power : Aimed strike:
Cast time reduced would make this power much easier to use.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Class feature : Cruel recovery:
There is no reason to slot this class feauture as it grants almost no survival. A cooldown of 5 seconds and increase of temp hp to also something around 5% would be a solution to it.
------------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Power: Boar charge
Boar charge has a long wait time after use until another power can be activated;
-----------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Artifact Power: Battleowned
Battleowned gives 100 regeneration from off hand bonus..... very very low
-----------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Artifact Power: Battleowned
Stormstep action gives 150 recover from off hand bonus.....very low
-----------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Class feature : Twin blade storm:
Twin blade storm does seem good but on pratice it fails, simple fix, instead +4% per rank, +5% and +3% from off hand artifact weapon.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Feat : Crushing roots
Thorned roots instead dealing 450% weapon damage imedeatly to imune targets, scaled down to 250% but now they will take 150% of weapon damage ever second and 80% of your weapon damage every 0,5 seconds as piercing damage, this would help in pvp and still keep the intended damage in pve.
----------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Feat : Stillness of the forest:
Stillness of the forest should have aggro reduction associated to avoid mobs attacks when the tank is inexperient, this alone is a huge damage boost, just by increasing reliability of the feat.
----------------------------------------------------------
Feedback: Power: Carefull attack
Carefull attack should have a fixed dot with a 1 second cooldown and should only be activated if the critter takes damage, from any scource.
@amenar can you tell me when you usually upload the versions on preview, day/hour pls or you upload when the amount of content justifies?
A fix and rework for SotF can make it perform much more consistently whether you're fighting many targets or just one, and Amenar does say they don't want to break the trapper playstyle.
Give Amenar a chance. He is doing good things.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
If its true that the devs never intended SotF multi-procing, then it makes sense for them to remove that behavior and see how Trappers perform w/o it. Before, if they were collecting any data about a Trapper's performance, the 'bug' would have obfuscated how well Trappers were meant to do in AoE vs. single target scenarios, and keeping that in place would risk making Trappers more powerful than they intended if they buff powers to boost Combat, Archery, and Trapper's single-target performance.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
(Strum's post is about halfway down the page. Linking right to a post doesn't seem to work at all.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Your Crit serverity is increased 10/15/20/25/30% as long as u are not taking any damage for 5 second. Additionally, while no foes are within 25 feet of you, you have a 5/10/15/20/25% increased chance to crit.
Feedback: Offhand power : Aspect of falcon
Your damage is increased by 10% as long as this class feature is active
Regarding swiftness to the fox, I don't think the core of the problem regarding HR cooldowns is the feat necessarily, it's the overall base cooldowns that hrs have. Swiftness of the fox is already the strongest cooldown feat in the game.
As a few other posters have mentioned, hrs have the longest cooldowns in the game, especially if you take into consideration archery and combat playstyle where one stance is generally considered filler skills for the main stance, especially when most hr skills tend to have only one strong counterpart (only one stance's version of encounter tends to be strong damage-wise). I think hr needs an overall cooldown reduction rather than increasing the effectiveness of a feat since that's honestly just shoehorning players into the feat.
FEEDBACK: reduce all cooldowns by 20-30%.
I think one last thing that needs to be established is that with swiftness no longer giving instant cooldown resets, hrs will need a base damage buff as both archery and combat still lack a lot of damage and trapper has lost a fair portion of its own.
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Depends, for example using longstrider, binding arrow, contricting arrow used to be a rotation that would keep a trapper far away from the targets, give continuous boost to the team and have CC, now that rotation is not/much less viable, there is a big gap using only oak skin to refresh your ranged powers, maybe using clearing the ground as complement would work. But for example using ls, plant growth and fox shift rotation on single target it's perfectly fine. So it all depends on the rotation you were using, mine still works nice (ls, PG, Constricting arrow). But many became obsulete.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Bug: Marauder's Escape
When activated mid air, the power doesn't function correctly
To duplicate the bug, just jump and use the power. The player will just green shift like normal, the player just wont actually go anywhere.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aoT7eTw5OJ8&feature=youtu.be
Bug: Marauder's Escape
The player still takes damage, even after activating the power
Just sit in front of an enemy, wait until they are about to attack, then activate the power before the enemy attack actually lands. The player will still take damage.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=O6CPNUeIbzE&feature=youtu.be
Slow the video down to .25 and you'll clearly see I activated the power before the enemy's attack landed.
I apologize if I posted this incorrectly, If it counts, I tried!
Amenar when/if you get the chance, please let me know if these are actually bugs. I didnt see anyone else actually bug them like this.
P.S. These powers function like this in Live, I tested to make sure. It's just that if you are fixing stuff, these are at least worth a look. These were both found and recorded on the preview server. Also occurring in Live.
Good Day.
lets aim for sub par for pve then aim fo ron par for pvp. if pvp is somewhat more balanced then pve should be fine. (all speculation)
+1
marauder escape should also provide some form of movement impairing affect that does no damage.
an option for battlehoned is-whenever you deal damage increase a stat by ?% for ? seconds. (stacking would make it more useful as a class feature)
or whenever you kill a foe gain increase movement for 10 seconds. (allow it to stack and have the stacks increase the time)
Flee backwards, soon as you make your next move they're already swarmed around you.