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Dungeons are unrunnable
koneko5678
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
I am done. I will not run dungeons anymore until the final boss of every epic dungeon (excluding Kessel's Retreat) is nerfed. If the requirement for a dungeon is 2k iLevel, don't you think a party of 2.5k's should be able to run it? I just tried to run epic Grey Wolf Den with me (a 2.5k GF), a 2.4k DC, and 3 dps that were 3.5k+ (one of them was even 4k) and we failed the final boss. That boss should have been a cake walk with all that dps. And this is not the first time I have failed a dungeon with such spectacular offensive power. The dungeons as a whole are fine, but it's a waste of time to run them until you nerf the end bosses. You want to put in another tier of dungeons in the next module, yet you haven't even fixed the tiers we have. Please fix this before you start losing players.
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There is no reason to nerf anything in the game, if your struggling ask some questions.
What build do you have, what is your primary stats at?
My GF can do this run , I am swordmaster, using steel defense + enforced threat most of the time (i dont do enough damage to hold aggro otherwise I would use Shield talent) , my base defense is 22k , it goes up to 28k with sudden defense + rising + some other procs, I then hit paladin sigal for 15% more dr, then ITF. I would typically run enforced threat, ITF and KV, but may drop it at times in favor of lunging strike, + fighters recovery for a heal.
Mounts, I use the deflect heal+crit heal+ gladitors guile+wanders.
I only rock azure r8s in defense, and siliveries in offense.
I do not have bonding stones typically on my GF, using a old augment with defense/recovery loyal gear + more r8s into slots.
I do not have one item to legendary on my GF.. its all epic. (even getting artifacts to epic now is a pain)
Im using two dusk + two dragonflight as armor.
This is by far more then what is needed for typical runs, Ive even pugged all the t2s, as I typically do when I start a new class, I want to make sure I can get pugs through things, because frankly if I ran with just friends list/guildies, they can carry bad tanks, so the best way for me to learn is to get into bad groups , so Im forced to do the things that are needed correctly.
Also, your dc doesnt need a ton of gear to be effective, but they sure the heck need to know what they are doing. Unless the DC told me what they are doing, I couldnt help them though.
These are doable at 2.5k i level.. even if your dps was all 2.5k i level its doable. It just takes longer..
1) If you are new to the game, refer to the class forums section and find a guide for the class you are playing. For some classes, there are only a very limited number of things that work and if you not doing those things, you essentially useless.
2) If you run with random players, stop doing that. Join either a guild, or the legit channel and run with players there.
3) Try to get gear that is good, rather than gear that has a high ilvl. What I mean by this, is say you playing a CW and 1 piece of gear has 145 ilvl and has power/crit/arp and another piece of gear has 150 ilvl and has power/recovery/arp, then the first piece of gear has better stats, even though it has lower ilvl. Make sure your character has 60% resistance ignored if they are a dps.
4) Don't be afraid to ask questions. Rather than asking for nerfs, try to learn what you did wrong. There is a significant difference between a 2.5k player and a 2.5k player who knows what they doing. In this game, knowledge means the difference between everything being trivially easy and your character doing less damage than a blink dog companion, so try to learn everything you can.
That should cover everything.
Strongholds spends up to 8k defense or power to a player. That´s about 11 rank 12 enchants.
So join a guild, get the right build, no clue what GF you run-protector tree is much easier get tanky at low IL.
Buff your defense and get a DC and 3 DPS, that knows what to do and how to buff. I am pretty sure with poor dps that boss is not that funny, but in case none of you buffs each other you will have poor outcome.
What you experience may be the effect of 5 player running a build wich doesn´t (ab)use the option some classes have in this game.
You can run a CW with poor benefit for a party and one wich triples damage
You can run a buffer DC or can perform very HAMSTER in a dungeon, in case you don´t know you class.
I wouldn't say though that the dungeons are too hard, but the game is atrocious in telling players what they need to contribute appropriately. All due respect to Sharp and others, but that highly experienced players can run stuff in 2k groups and very specific setups and comps doesn't "prove" anything.
The common player in 2k gear still runs into content that's not suited for him.
we didnt have guild boons when mod 6 dropped and we were doing the t2s, they are vastly easier now then then.
With the twisted + guild boons + bondings + synergy buffs+ mounts + whatever else since then + removal of arp bug + nerf to mobs.. = rolf stomp.
However, I would say getting guild boons isnt a bad thing, ever if a guild only has 50% of the sh done, having 4k defense = better then zero extra defense.
The last time I asked for a nerf in this game was during arp bug, then then cryptic as usual fluffed that up, and also reduced the mobs (doh) no one asked them to do that.. of course. But for some reason they did it.
Please do not attempt to dodge the profanity filter.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Item Level is a very misleading thing. It doesn't tell you anything about someones build or even if they made the correct choices when picking enchants and boons. 'Correct' in this case meaning supportive of their build. For instance, stacking Silveries in offense is a perfectly valid choice for a Master of Flame Renegade trying to fire off as much dailies as possible, for their Combustive Action debuff, but makes little sense when it comes to a Hunter Ranger Trapper.
I've been an advocate for more challenging content - albeit less frequent now, as the forum has been pretty quiet - so before I can comment anything constructive, I'll have to know more about your build and the kind of issues you ran into with the boss. What made you fail? Was it the red zones? The adds spawning in during the different phases? Did people not kill off the Stormcallers quick enough?
Asking these questions is the path to improving your gameplay and experience. It opens up an avenue for people to give you solid advice, and wards off the trolls who can only post 'l2p'. Throwing in the towel, however, is pretty weak. A great number of people blast through these dungeons daily, and a good amount of us certainly don't want to see the bar lowered anymore.
We're seeing far more offensively minded Guardian Fighters. We've got Control Wizards that specialize in doing damage or running around with a MoF/Rene build to provide as much support as possible. Every tree of the Devoted Cleric class is still being represented. There's a mass of healer and tanking Paladins.
Sadly, yes, some classes suffer from the 'one true path': Hunter Ranger and Great Weapon Fighter being the prime example. But I certainly wouldn't go as far as saying every class is being built the same way.
And in a way, Power Creep is also to blame for bad gameplay. Being able to brute-force your way through everything doesn't punish bad play. As long as you just stack enough offensive or defensive power, it doesn't really matter how poor your skill, feat or boon choices were.
Really, I enjoy a challenge but if you need to put that much time into party composition and need to rely on 4 other people to do their job flawlessly in order to win, it will kill the casual gamers and the people that can only play for a few hours at a time. Especially if the reward for doing so is a .0002% chance at an artifact and you need to run the same dungeon hundreds of times. I am a big fan of having multiple difficulty levels and reward levels, but given the current reward levels and need to run dungeons hundreds of times, I say why bother? Maybe they will make some improvements in Mod 10 but I am not going to hold my breath.
I know I'm not the only one with this problem, people complain about it in game all the time, but most don't bother to bring their issues to forums. If you're a pro, and only run with pros from top ranked guilds, then you can't understand the struggle the rest of us are going through. What you're saying is the content should only be doable for the top 20-40% of players.
I started like anyone else, 2 toons , both in blue gear.. digging out AD anyway I could.
It just takes time, not at all trying to deride you, I know full well the struggles of new players, especially when you dont have the knowledge.
I have constantly and will fight for both the reduction of costing on progression materials and the reduction of the power curve (too much at the highest end).
There is no reason for both of these things to be gated in the manner they are.
Some of my early posts from 3 years ago LOOKED just like yours.
But this wasnt my first mmo, I dug my heals in , looked up guides like Kaelecs old one at laggygamerz and started progressing, one rank enchant at a time.
There are many good places to read up on the game, with the correct information, look at thefabricants signature, its a good place to start. I have run literally thousands of dungeons with him.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fFvdO1UDmyL7VWO9WhAiFTBEV6AFVN4I-bGR7WnewMY/pub
Twofatmushroom guide for the GF is excellent. I dont use that particular build for myself, but its a good one and I have run with him myself on multiple locations. (plus he is now in the same alliance I am!)
I'm not just random newbie, I know how to play and I understand how my skills and stats work. I've seen a few guides and they don't tell me anything I don't already know. The point I am trying to make is that we shouldn't have to run the dungeon perfectly to succeed. I don't even run pubs, I run with my alliance, and we fail half our runs
Rather old, but still just as valid.
I really can't comment on what the OP's problem is. I will probably never understand the massive perceptual gap between too-easy and too-hard, even though I try.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
As a DC, I've seen high-DPS groups struggle in eGWD when they accidentally and repeatedly kill the Marrowsbane "red wolf" too far from the boss to drop his invincibility. All it takes is a carelessly placed AoE or unlucky splash, and your well buffed party is stuck dancing with invinci-warewolf for another song. Eventually someone misses a step. The number of times I've finished eGWD with just me (DC) + 1 DPS left standing is too funny.
That said, I think your post elicited a lot of responses because it touches on a very sensitive topic with a lot of the seasoned PvE crowd. This content is both overwhelming / difficult to learn for new folks while seasoned players feel it's been trivialized into a fine powder with few challenges to be found in the end-game.
For what it's worth, I'm squarely in the "PvE is too easy" camp, but I think the answer would be to create more diverse content (with more diverse difficulty) instead of recycling things for the 3rd time over. I also agree with the need to incentivize dungeon delving for experienced players, but at this point I feel like I'm asking too much.
For the record, this is the difference between knowing your class and being pro. Knowing your class just means you know how to fight, being pro means you know how all the bosses fight.