No, sorry, it's the HRs turn for the buffhammer, get to the back of the queue.
I would counter that and say SW needs attention more than HR - probably the one class more broken than ours.
Forget that, I want a set of buffs/boons tied only to ME! NW can call the new campaign "It's all about you" "Mirror Mirror on the wall" or something crazy like that. The new buffs will be Account bound and make me a God no matter what character I play. Hell just give me the DEV God status and let me run around naked, Killing, Buffing, Healing, everything in sight of my awesomeness....
No, sorry, it's the HRs turn for the buffhammer, get to the back of the queue.
I would counter that and say SW needs attention more than HR - probably the one class more broken than ours.
Yes, but SWs are full of evil, and HRs are lovable gardeners. Ergo, we should get buffed first, the logic is irrefutable.
I propose a change to the trapper capstone: "when you wear pink your next encounter strikes for 2xOrcus damage, pierces all defences and stacks up to as many times as you need it to. This effect is doubled on troublesome DCs and anyone using drains."
We should be able to tank the mobs away from other players, not drop dead as soon as we are out-of-sight of a good tank and healer. Those are pretty scarce. GFs and DCs have already moved away from wanting to be tanks and healers and want to be DPS. The rest are not well-geared and die faster than me.
I'm a DC.
My counter argument: a gwf and I killed Orcus and we were 2 only.
My advice: spend your time searching a good DC instead asking to be buffed.
If so, as a DC, I ask to have more DPS as my healer is so weak that I can't even do iwd alone at 3.8k. I hope my request is implemented. I was forced to move rigtheous to make my life easier.
I'm still a healing Virtuous Power buffer at 3.2k IL. I'm really glad I'm done with all campaigns because my personal DPS is atrocious. If I didn't have a close network of guildies and my hubby's TR to do my dailies with me I would be in a pretty bad spot with actually doing anything other than dungeons.
Relmyna - AC/DC Righteous + Haste| Nadine - CW MoF (working on it)|Buffy - GF SM Tact| Hrist - Justice Tankadin|Healadin (Wannabe Tank)| Lena -MI Sabo TR (Farmer) | Jeska - GWF SM Destroyer (Farmer) | Maggie - HR PF Trapper (Wannabe DPS)
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Usually when I die it's when I'm really really lazy to move, and even then I'm more likely to survive a hit. Other then that I think we're in a good place.
Orcus is really a bad reason to give us more defense. He one shots everything. Unless you're a Yeti
I would love more TempHP (it took some time to adjust to the temp HP nerf), but I'll manage without.
At this point I would really love if devs wouldn't experiment with the GWF. Last time they tried to fix us they just nerfed us. I already made my piece with the Unstoppable bug that it will never get fixed.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Today I saw a GF with 3800 IL nearly solo Tiamat in one round. Did more damage than the other 4 on the chart combined. We had all the heads down with time to spare, in the first phase. So, no GF is not weak at all. That is another reason for a massive survivability buff for GWF.
You keep saying this stuff, but I never see this, maybe I'm just not playing with the elites, dunno. 3.2K IV Tact GF and the DPS sucks balls!
I can't recall coming across another GF in a PUG session where I've thought their DPS was worth having them in the team, no offense to the other GF's, but I'm never excited to see you, I want to see a GWF or three - hence why I can't understand why you think this class useless in PVE. My perfect CN run at the moment is a team of me , a decent DC, a CW maybe (MoF or Ren) and the rest of the team filled with GWFs (that don't sprint ahead all the time).
Anyway, be careful what you wish for, else they might give you the tanking side but you might also end up down the bottom of Paingiver with us GF's & DC's, who have to take hours to complete our dailies.
i really hope you get the paladin's block in your tanking tree instead of sprint for egoistic purposes (takes a look at sanctuary is broken threads appearing with every patch) maybe then they will really make it a separate layer that actually works and activates more than 50% of the time when you press the key for it. And if it does get instant instead of 1-2 sec. even better.
Also the gwf should get the paladin's damage output so things remain fair...
Please fix Zhentarim Warlock companion's skill "Arcane Warping" to the originally intended "Arcane Boost" zhentarim-warlock-companion
No, sorry, it's the HRs turn for the buffhammer, get to the back of the queue.
I would counter that and say SW needs attention more than HR - probably the one class more broken than ours.
You're both right and that was part of my point. I've seen the GWF time and time again solo content without needed heals, tanking, anything...including team members Meanwhile HRs and SWs are basically cheer-leaders for the GWFs that face-roll the game.
Go GWF go, we'll pick up the greens while you kill everything! Go Go! *waves pom-pomps and cheers*
Today I saw a GF with 3800 IL nearly solo Tiamat in one round.GWF.
You keep saying this stuff, but I never see this
Neither have I or anyone I play with. A GF Solo Tiamat head the first round? You need to get to it < 40% before you can use AoD. The only good DPS skill a GF has. I'd have to see it to believe it. I'm sorry but that's like showing me a pic of Big Foot.
I want to see a GWF or three - hence why I can't understand why you think this class useless in PVE.
Agreed. I think they've been the Gods of this game since I started. So I see more (a ton of these lately!) 'buff me, nerf them' threads and I'm like, you have to be kidding me. If this game had class reroll tokens, I would of been a GWF main a long time again and stayed there. I'd probably be making some complaining threads too, saying the GWF needs more buffs, just to stay in vogue
And of course any increase to GWF survivability for pve will have a knock-on affect in pvp, tipping the scales further in their favour.
I just found this little gem of a post on the PvP board, the thread is called 'GF Encounter Powers.' And of course you find copious posts of GWF Gods wanting more God-mode. Apparently, this GWF didn't get the memo that GWFs are the worse, most weak class of the game. Spoiler, he never dies once, even 3 edit, 4 on 1. Enjoy..
PvE is very very different from PvP. A lot of the current issues with PvP are because there's been no evident focus paid to PvP impact when designing new content for many mods. The game is clearly geared towards PvE, with PvP being tacked on. I'm not sure if anyone should seriously argue for or against something based on the PvP consequences at this point.
actually you are WRONG, you people got used to play GWF as it is only 1 way to play it, i played GWF for a long time, i used to be a TANK for Dracolich back in the days and the OP he is right in what he said, the GWF needs a surviability buff, not HEALING, not more DR , not Hitpoints , but a way to decrease incoming damage, with a new way of playin' it. 1st the GWF is a STRIKER, DESTROYER paragon proved us, but i dont think having only 1 paragon to play is for the best for this class, it limits mostly everything. Since GFs can do DPS better than GWFs, they can also TANK better than GWFs, they also offer a better party buff than GWFs at the moment making the content way to easy honestly.
< snip >
There is a large difference in asking for GWF to get a viable sentinal tree like you are asking for in your post here, and asking for widespread unwarranted massive buffs to the GWF class because the OP is a troll. Sentinal absolutely needs a rework so that it is viable again, but the difference between your post and the OPs is that the OP is just asking for everything and giving up nothing.
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
I think the numbers are in . . . .
80% of players are saying that the GWF is fine and doesn't really need buffing. But if it does, it is the sentinel tree that needs some tweaking to provide a more viable off tank role, and that that should come at a significant decrease in DPS.
15% of players think this is a trolling thread
5% of players think this is an opportunity to showcase their fictional wordsmithing skills
I just finished CN with 2 GWFs in the party - one was 2.3K IL and the other was 2.6K, everyone else was around 3-3.5K- it was a pug group. We had to Rez the 2.3K player a few times, but useless in PVE? Any other class would have been kicked for too low IL.
Now if I was part of the 5%, I would be making outrageous claims that the 2.3K GWF solo'd orcus before the rest of us quit the cut scene . . . .
80% of players are saying that the GWF is fine and doesn't really need buffing.
More like 90%, including most of the GWFs. It's the same 3 guys (literally, just 3 guys) that have been crusading 'buff me, nerf them' threads for going on 3 weeks now. @defiantone99, @metalldjt, @clonkyo1 Look at the post history, you'll notice a very obvious pattern in this forum and others. It's a fact.
If any class should be hollering from the roof-tops for some dev-help, it should be SW's and HRs! Instead, it's the most overpowered class not asking, demanding, to be even more overpowered and nerf all others that stand before them. Can it get more ostentatious and selfish?
Item level for item level, GWFs outperform all other classes by leaps and bounds! It's been this way for some time now.
For every questionable Demogorgon paingiver pic (Like a SW wearing the the bugged set getting #1 DPS or a GF ITF buffing another GF with knight's challenge) you see where the GWF isn't #1, the other 98% are where they are. But you won't see those in this thread. You'll be told that the GWF is a striker and should win at all times! And in the rare times they don't, they should be buffed when they don't. .. Or get flamed or trolled if you don't agree with the GWF jockocracy.
This is what I hope... I hope that Cryptic is smart enough to calculate who wins paingiver the most in PvE and makes up their own damn mind. Not like I believe for a second they're going to dig through recycled noise threads like these threads that have been sprouting up every hour by the above 3 poster. These threads are really just different wrapping paper of the same rhetorical spin-doctoring that's been going on for some time now.
Fix what needs fixing. Leave well enough alone and bring the SW and HR back to usefulness in PvE again. I'm not activily trying to push for GWF nerfs. They've been gods this long, what's another mod of unbalanced DPS monsters soloing end-game on YouTube matter at this point, right?
it is the sentinel tree that needs some tweaking to provide a more viable off tank role, and that that should come at a significant decrease in DPS.
Playing Devil's advocate for a bit here.
Here is my take. If there was a viable off tank role for GWFs, I don't think any of them would take it. 3 Reasons. 1. DPS is all the rage (again). This game is ultra DPS-focused right now. More then ever, and it always kind of was pointed in that direction. Heroics, raids, so-easy-its-dumb content. GF are doing less tanking and trying to get more DPS (I know you're going to twist that comment). Clerics, less healing, more DPS. CWs, less control more DPS. Here comes another mod (if you want to call it that) where it will probably be more solo-play (story). Mod 9 solo play with solo daily. Mod 8: a raid and two skrims that don't require tanking or healing. The legacy stuff is a brainless grind at this point. Roles are up in the air right now and it looks like it's causing animosity with the DPS elites.
2. Legacy roles expected in legacy 5-mans. Like DCs that are expected to spam astral sheild and gift of haste and GF's are expected to spam into the frey. If a GWF joins a team and is tanky, but does medicore damage, he-or-she may catch some guff from rude players. 'Hey, your DPS stinks.' Some garbage. It's what's expected in the thoughtless grind. The bigger issue is that the last few mods have really tossed the role paradigm up in the air and it fell over and broke it's hip.
3. The high price of a low % life steal. Alot of GWFs wanting more tankiness, are, from a defensive-slot perspective, very invested in life steal. Some of these guys I spec'ed out where mostly life-steal and relied mostly on SH boons for def (well, no shock you're so squishy then, hey) . One had only a couple def slots used, the rest where empty (no idea what that was about). They all had better off enchants then def enchants, 100% of the time. The arm pen to mobs change made def less useful and life steal the best option for DPS. Even as an off-tank, I depend on lifesteal more then defense also because you can't count on a DC being a healing DC anymore. But the GF has some DR/deflect/AC feats low in the protector class that even GF Conquerors (like me) can get them. GWF has some but they're pretty far up the Sent tree. And because life steal isn't useful till you get over 10% (4,000). GWF have to go either LS or Def, but not both.
And what happened to healing pets? Remember them? Before GWFs replaced them all with Zhentarim Warlocks (or shadow daemons). The point is they already have sacrificed healing pets for DPS buffing pets. That was a choice, not a requirement.
Why not bring them back out? Acolyte of kelemvor gives 10% DR, 8% extra LS, a heal of 25k, and keeps all three bondings going constantly. I know why, the same reason I don't use healing pets either. Because DPS rules in easy content.
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
This thread has been dragged into a debate about GF's Vs GWFs - and is now one righteous GF standing firm against the evil mob of angry and irrational GWFs, a few of which when presented with calm and reasonable debate appear to resort to personal insults and name calling. Poor form.
Where are the video's of GF's soloing content? They don't exist cause no one would watch a Vid of a GF taking 16 hours to solo Orcus.
The bottom line is that GF is a Defender/Controller, but players are pretending it is a Striker. All the while they will not accept that GWF is a Striker/Off-Tank that does not have enough survivability to even off-tank. So, GWF is the only class allowed only one role? So, my post should be asking for a damage buff since we can be beat by anyone who is skilled and geared. If we have one role, we should be top dog. Other classes that can beat us have control, healing, tanking and such as secondary roles.
I'm not arguing GWFs shouldn't be top dog in DPS. I always have been fine with that. That's their purpose. I'm arguing that GWFs already are and buttoning them up to be solid all-rounders is a lower priority then classes really sucking in PvE right now. That's it.
The temp HP nerf was a good example of a large-impact nerf that mostly affected the players it was least intended to affect. My guess was that NWO saw the I solo'ed Orcus videos by GWFs and hit them all with the nerf hammer. I think most nerfs are not very well thought out and rashly rushed out the door. This seemed to be a knee-jerk response.
But, lets say the GWF is a glass cannon as you say, where are you still dying, besides Castle Never which is supposed to be hard. Kind of. Outside the boss fight?
Comments
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
I propose a change to the trapper capstone: "when you wear pink your next encounter strikes for 2xOrcus damage, pierces all defences and stacks up to as many times as you need it to. This effect is doubled on troublesome DCs and anyone using drains."
Seems fair.
--
I'll never retrace my steps.
Some of my best friends are Imaginary.
Orcus is really a bad reason to give us more defense. He one shots everything. Unless you're a Yeti
I would love more TempHP (it took some time to adjust to the temp HP nerf), but I'll manage without.
At this point I would really love if devs wouldn't experiment with the GWF. Last time they tried to fix us they just nerfed us. I already made my piece with the Unstoppable bug that it will never get fixed.
I can't recall coming across another GF in a PUG session where I've thought their DPS was worth having them in the team, no offense to the other GF's, but I'm never excited to see you, I want to see a GWF or three - hence why I can't understand why you think this class useless in PVE. My perfect CN run at the moment is a team of me
Anyway, be careful what you wish for, else they might give you the tanking side but you might also end up down the bottom of Paingiver with us GF's & DC's, who have to take hours to complete our dailies.
Also the gwf should get the paladin's damage output so things remain fair...
zhentarim-warlock-companion
Pure -> Transcendent Plague Fire weapon enchantment giving 80damge/20 seconds for 500k+ AD is a joke.
plague-fire-weapon-enchant-r11-vs-r12
I've seen the GWF time and time again solo content without needed heals, tanking, anything...including team members
Meanwhile HRs and SWs are basically cheer-leaders for the GWFs that face-roll the game.
Go GWF go, we'll pick up the greens while you kill everything! Go Go! *waves pom-pomps and cheers*
You need to get to it < 40% before you can use AoD. The only good DPS skill a GF has. I'd have to see it to believe it. I'm sorry but that's like showing me a pic of Big Foot. Agreed. I think they've been the Gods of this game since I started. So I see more (a ton of these lately!) 'buff me, nerf them' threads and I'm like, you have to be kidding me.
If this game had class reroll tokens, I would of been a GWF main a long time again and stayed there. I'd probably be making some complaining threads too, saying the GWF needs more buffs, just to stay in vogue
And of course you find copious posts of GWF Gods wanting more God-mode.
Apparently, this GWF didn't get the memo that GWFs are the worse, most weak class of the game.
Spoiler, he never dies once, even
3edit, 4 on 1.Enjoy..
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
80% of players are saying that the GWF is fine and doesn't really need buffing. But if it does, it is the sentinel tree that needs some tweaking to provide a more viable off tank role, and that that should come at a significant decrease in DPS.
15% of players think this is a trolling thread
5% of players think this is an opportunity to showcase their fictional wordsmithing skills
I just finished CN with 2 GWFs in the party - one was 2.3K IL and the other was 2.6K, everyone else was around 3-3.5K- it was a pug group. We had to Rez the 2.3K player a few times, but useless in PVE? Any other class would have been kicked for too low IL.
Now if I was part of the 5%, I would be making outrageous claims that the 2.3K GWF solo'd orcus before the rest of us quit the cut scene . . . .
It's the same 3 guys (literally, just 3 guys) that have been crusading 'buff me, nerf them' threads for going on 3 weeks now.
@defiantone99, @metalldjt, @clonkyo1
Look at the post history, you'll notice a very obvious pattern in this forum and others. It's a fact.
If any class should be hollering from the roof-tops for some dev-help, it should be SW's and HRs!
Instead, it's the most overpowered class not asking, demanding, to be even more overpowered and nerf all others that stand before them. Can it get more ostentatious and selfish?
Item level for item level, GWFs outperform all other classes by leaps and bounds! It's been this way for some time now.
For every questionable Demogorgon paingiver pic (Like a SW wearing the the bugged set getting #1 DPS or a GF ITF buffing another GF with knight's challenge) you see where the GWF isn't #1, the other 98% are where they are.
But you won't see those in this thread. You'll be told that the GWF is a striker and should win at all times! And in the rare times they don't, they should be buffed when they don't. .. Or get flamed or trolled if you don't agree with the GWF jockocracy.
This is what I hope... I hope that Cryptic is smart enough to calculate who wins paingiver the most in PvE and makes up their own damn mind. Not like I believe for a second they're going to dig through recycled noise threads like these threads that have been sprouting up every hour by the above 3 poster. These threads are really just different wrapping paper of the same rhetorical spin-doctoring that's been going on for some time now.
Fix what needs fixing. Leave well enough alone and bring the SW and HR back to usefulness in PvE again.
I'm not activily trying to push for GWF nerfs. They've been gods this long, what's another mod of unbalanced DPS monsters soloing end-game on YouTube matter at this point, right?
Here is my take. If there was a viable off tank role for GWFs, I don't think any of them would take it.
3 Reasons.
1. DPS is all the rage (again).
This game is ultra DPS-focused right now. More then ever, and it always kind of was pointed in that direction.
Heroics, raids, so-easy-its-dumb content.
GF are doing less tanking and trying to get more DPS (I know you're going to twist that comment). Clerics, less healing, more DPS. CWs, less control more DPS.
Here comes another mod (if you want to call it that) where it will probably be more solo-play (story). Mod 9 solo play with solo daily. Mod 8: a raid and two skrims that don't require tanking or healing. The legacy stuff is a brainless grind at this point. Roles are up in the air right now and it looks like it's causing animosity with the DPS elites.
2. Legacy roles expected in legacy 5-mans.
Like DCs that are expected to spam astral sheild and gift of haste and GF's are expected to spam into the frey.
If a GWF joins a team and is tanky, but does medicore damage, he-or-she may catch some guff from rude players. 'Hey, your DPS stinks.' Some garbage. It's what's expected in the thoughtless grind. The bigger issue is that the last few mods have really tossed the role paradigm up in the air and it fell over and broke it's hip.
3. The high price of a low % life steal.
Alot of GWFs wanting more tankiness, are, from a defensive-slot perspective, very invested in life steal.
Some of these guys I spec'ed out where mostly life-steal and relied mostly on SH boons for def (well, no shock you're so squishy then, hey) .
One had only a couple def slots used, the rest where empty (no idea what that was about).
They all had better off enchants then def enchants, 100% of the time.
The arm pen to mobs change made def less useful and life steal the best option for DPS. Even as an off-tank, I depend
on lifesteal more then defense also because you can't count on a DC being a healing DC anymore. But the GF has some DR/deflect/AC feats low in the protector class that even GF Conquerors (like me) can get them. GWF has some but they're pretty far up the Sent tree. And because life steal isn't useful till you get over 10% (4,000). GWF have to go either LS or Def, but not both.
And what happened to healing pets? Remember them?
Before GWFs replaced them all with Zhentarim Warlocks (or shadow daemons).
The point is they already have sacrificed healing pets for DPS buffing pets. That was a choice, not a requirement.
Why not bring them back out? Acolyte of kelemvor gives 10% DR, 8% extra LS, a heal of 25k, and keeps all three bondings going constantly. I know why, the same reason I don't use healing pets either. Because DPS rules in easy content.
Where are the video's of GF's soloing content? They don't exist cause no one would watch a Vid of a GF taking 16 hours to solo Orcus.
Good question. I'm not arguing GWFs shouldn't be top dog in DPS. I always have been fine with that. That's their purpose.
I'm arguing that GWFs already are and buttoning them up to be solid all-rounders is a lower priority then classes really sucking in PvE right now. That's it.
The temp HP nerf was a good example of a large-impact nerf that mostly affected the players it was least intended to affect.
My guess was that NWO saw the I solo'ed Orcus videos by GWFs and hit them all with the nerf hammer.
I think most nerfs are not very well thought out and rashly rushed out the door. This seemed to be a knee-jerk response.
But, lets say the GWF is a glass cannon as you say, where are you still dying, besides Castle Never which is supposed to be hard. Kind of. Outside the boss fight?