I would say the thread should ask for a rework of the sentinal tree maybe, but the Destroyer path definitely needs no more tankyness. My GWF jumps in a mobgroup and nearly can´t die as long as I got that lifesteal-boon running. Before the HP nerf I did so many edemo runs, watching 3k+ GWF litterally tanking the hole 3. phase and all mobs arround by spamming WMS, while some poor Hunter and TR´s were send home GWF got some improvement in mod 6, leeding the paingiver till now. GF´s..maybe some deal great damage, maybe under special circumstances, buffed, using special powers like Knight´s challlenge or steel blitz+commander strike, but til now I did not meet that much doing so, and the big numbers in Tiamat+edemo aer not representataive, since this is all about Buff-overkill and some feats/powers as mentioned. ITF , yes a tonedown would be great to get things in line.
Mod 5 was DC/TR-Rising , getting tortured by SE til now. Mod 6, the "dark mod", Paladin showed us how boring PVE/PVP can be. There is a Hunter class and a unsolven broken Warlock class, wich obviuosly never will be fixed, having redicules broken feats and powers. I am Pretty sure the devs fear, in case they touch this mess and fix it, the class will be underwhelming. Before GWF get´s a rework the class should get in queue with all those classes who are mouldering in a corner for so long now. My impression is, that some classes are underrepresented in this game, since devs have near no clue about them?
I popped on to forums to see if anything interesting was about today...........guess I will have my chuckles and go take nap....
I have always grumbled silently to myself whenever I hear someone trying to push others into a best build/gear etc for a specific class. But I am somewhat puzzled on how exactly you can build a GWF and have issues...............
It is rather funny to see how much attention this thread is getting, and really sad all the same. My crystal ball sees a closure and movement incoming............or is that clouds and rain down there hmmmmm
I would say the thread should ask for a rework of the sentinal tree maybe, but the Destroyer path definitely needs no more tankyness. My GWF jumps in a mobgroup and nearly can´t die as long as I got that lifesteal-boon running. Before the HP nerf I did so many edemo runs, watching 3k+ GWF litterally tanking the hole 3. phase and all mobs arround by spamming WMS, while some poor Hunter and TR´s were send home
This is how I feel about it as well. What I think the core ask here is though, is to have Sentinel tanking feats available (or lower and reachable) to the Destroyer tree. I could be wrong but that's how I'm reading it. My questions is simply 'why?' Where is the struggle going on. Maybe PvP related. Or want of variety. If it's just that, pick a number and wait. I don't think we'll ever see the day where a class has more then 2 trees that are usable, most have 1. Some have none. SWs without lifesteal and bubbledins without a bubble. It could be worse. I think the GWF is a 1 tree class and that is sucky.
GF´s..maybe some deal great damage, maybe under special circumstances, buffed, using special powers like Knight´s challlenge or steel blitz+commander strike, but til now I did not meet that much doing so, and the big numbers in Tiamat+edemo aer not representataive, since this is all about Buff-overkill and some feats/powers as mentioned. ITF , yes a tonedown would be great to get things in line.
I agree with this also. It's the exception, not the norm, that said. It's the buffs, not the class, that need a look. Esp ITF. It should of been capped a while ago. And Knight's Challenge IMO is overpowered also. I've yet to see any screenshot other then demogorgon where it's not a buff/debuff DPS fest of furry. I'm a GF but don't have R20 SH buffs or the twisted set so I can't reproduce it, but don't deny it's a problem.
Mod 5 was DC/TR-Rising , getting tortured by SE til now. Mod 6, the "dark mod", Paladin showed us how boring PVE/PVP can be. There is a Hunter class and a unsolven broken Warlock class, wich obviuosly never will be fixed, having redicules broken feats and powers. I am Pretty sure the devs fear, in case they touch this mess and fix it, the class will be underwhelming. Before GWF get´s a rework the class should get in queue with all those classes who are mouldering in a corner for so long now. My impression is, that some classes are underrepresented in this game, since devs have near no clue about them?
And agreeing some more. Especially the last part. But I don't always think they're apprehensive to nerf what is most popular, or inversely, more likely to nerf the underrepresented. Example like the LoL set, perm-bubble. It's either they're very out of touch with their own game or knowingly add overpowered items/pets/skills for reasons I'm not aware of. But I do think some classes just get forgotten about and have not scaled well to the new mods. I would not put the GWF or the GF in that category.
maybe that's because you do very little explaining or offer anything constructive. Its nearly all criticisms of other posters. If you go back through this thread, mostly what you have done is criticise other ppls opinions or them, posted videos about GF's on a GWF thread and in general complained about GF's or made some very vague comments about buffs.
You have spent a lot of effort on GF's in this thread but the closest you come to a GWF suggestion is this . . . .
"Pls, devs, increase GWF's damage too together our survivality and our tankiness!!!!"
. . . . how is anyone supposed to understand what you mean by that. Good luck to the Dev's
Whilst I might disagree with the OP, the OP actually says something about what they think need to be done. . .
"Well, TBH , what i had leant from all those tests i made was this: the GWF class is a real mess and it's really out dated. It needs an update or rework ASAP."
- please explain this to the GWF soloing orcus and the others that are constantly topping the paingiver charts and kicking butt in PVE
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
still nothing but vague statements about buffs, that's fair enough, but don't criticise others for not being able to understand the details of what you are trying to suggest.
I believe that there should be a trade off between DPS and defence, this has been they way of D&D and RPG / MMORPG games since the internet began (and I was playing RPG / D&D around when the internet began)
so if you want GWF's to get more defence and tankability, offer some suggestions on how this is done without just adding it to the DPS king tree, otherwise it is destroying the balance of the game
you say you have the good of the game at heart, but to be honest they appear to be empty words
why are there not more than 3 GWF's telling how bad it is, most are saying it is fine
and I just ran CN with two GWFs, a DC and a CW all above 3K
The top GWF also topped immovable object and I am a tank spec'd GF, how is that for tankability??
I'd post some screen shots and embed fancy vids etc. except I don't know how or probably more to the point, couldn't be stuffed figuring out how to do it
"Well, TBH , what i had leant from all those tests i made was this: the GWF class is a real mess and it's really out dated. It needs an update or rework ASAP."
- please explain this to the GWF soloing orcus and the others that are constantly topping the paingiver charts and kicking butt in PVE
i will explain it to you, please watch the video closely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7y3unS5Ufs the player that it's tanking ORCUS is none other than a COMPANION, its GREAT YOUNG YETIi!?!? in other WORDS GWF cannot tank ORCUS,
Why should a DPS GWF be able to tank Orcus? How is this even a fair basis for an argument?
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
off tank <> tank
and who is talking about war - not this side of the argument, all the aggression is coming from . . . . . guess where . . . . . . the G "god complex" W "we wanna face palm the whole game F "f you all" GWF's
"Well, TBH , what i had leant from all those tests i made was this: the GWF class is a real mess and it's really out dated. It needs an update or rework ASAP."
- please explain this to the GWF soloing orcus and the others that are constantly topping the paingiver charts and kicking butt in PVE
i will explain it to you, please watch the video closely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7y3unS5Ufs the player that it's tanking ORCUS is none other than a COMPANION, its GREAT YOUNG YETIi!?!? in other WORDS GWF cannot tank ORCUS,
Why should a DPS GWF be able to tank Orcus? How is this even a fair basis for an argument?
since you are quoting with the link i assume you are reffering that the GWF tanks the ORCUS, where that it's totally wrong, the GWF doesn't tank the orcus, the Companion tanks the Orcus.
You posted the link. I can only assume you did so because you feel Laz SHOULD of been able to tank as indicated by this quote "in other WORDS GWF cannot tank ORCUS"
My response to that is....well DUH. Its not a defensive GWF. He shouldn't be able to tank Orcus.
NO GWF should tank Orcus and there is none who can do Even GF struggle vs that boss, wich deal crazy ammounts of damage, but that´s the way it should be. My GF at 2,8k GS will be melted in seconds having an offensive/PVP setup and not enough HP, even 3k+ GF´s have issues, some go with a purple yeti, some chain dailies slotting steel defense, all in all there is nothing to argue about a GWF tanking Orcus. But as mentioned before a 3k+ GWF is able to tank edemo 3.phase, saw this 100 times. A GWF is able to tank T1+T2 even running a damage spec., soloing tose dungeons. There are tons of videos before HP nerf and even after that nerf there is enough options to solo T1, maybe T2 also, can´t tell. Why on earth should this class get more tankyness? Imo no class should be able solo T1 or T2....I would like to have this done exclusivley to a group with a tank and a healer.
Honestly, the topic is more about the fact, that GWF as a melee class has problems to facetank a GF, wich is a problem for lot´s of classes, my warlock suffers the same, no dodge. But this issue is more solved by a tonedown from ITF and maybe some adjustments. The need for more tankyness is not directed to PVE, since most GWF in this thread, who vote for improvement are strictly PVP player , I would suggest to solve this issue not by giving a class, that is near invinceable at BIS, more tankyness. Even in mod 8 it was a hard task to get down that GWF, not possible for my class/setup, and avoid to get 3-hittet. Now we got insignias on top.... The true intention of this therad is covered and found in the imbalance of classes in PVP these days. But PVP is messed up by so many stuff and not a viable base to argue about balancing classes arround broken enchants, drians, insignias, mounts, SH boons etc. Imo we need mayor issues fixed before asking for nerfs/buffs. Btw I do not ask for anything for my class atm and accept it´s broken state, having tons of useless encounter and feats, beeing viable in PVP only at BIS level and dealing >50% of the damage based on buggs in PVE.
Omg, warlocks are leader ????...lol, allways asked myself about the role of the class beside being a striker. GF is no leader? Ok, gimme that ITF, since warlock is the worst buffer from all classes. Every CW, TR, Hunter, GF, OP, DC even the GWF i guess beats a warlock in group-buffing...sad, this really proves how bad the class is designed from the start
Leaders are healers, buffers and debuffers. Their powers support the party's success either by healing damage taken, preventing damage from being taken or increasing the damage enemies take. Gonne setup a thread and cry for improvement immidiately
GWFs are close to worthless these days in PVE. We get one-shotted by trash mobs and bosses and can in no way be the Off-Tanks we are labeled as. If the tank loses aggro for one second in CN, he turns on us and SMASH we are dead. We need more damage resistance from Unstoppable and Sprint, more HP and defense on our armor, and some more Temp HP and self-healing sources. A proper dodge would be great as well as a buff to Battle Fury to make it more useful to our allies.
Dear gwf fan. From this thread I understand that u are >sorry for offensive< lazy HAMSTER. First of all u say u need survivability buff, Heck warlock have less def, deflect, I think they deserve more survivability buffs. Next, I have been in party with gwf who where undergeared and yet manage to fight and survive fair enough. And I have seen when more better geared gwf died almost in every step. Why? Simply he where lazy try to dodge incoming hits, and literally eat all incoming hits. And latter complain why my DC is not capable to keep him alive.. Next instead run like hot headed/brainless directly in to incoming hits try avoid them? Also top reason why I think no need gwf extra buffing is that Great Weapon Fighter is not TANK<< his role is primary dps. secondary sub tank. Thats mean for lower tear dungeons u can tanks as much u want, but for top tear dungeons u must have real tank> Paladin or Guardian. Now gwf simply want to be tank + dps freak in one.. Give me a break. it will become pure gwf parties all time.. Maybe extra DC inside party and thats it...
sorry for english....
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
0
lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Immovable Object comes from taking damage, it means the tank is not intercepting the damage, not that the GWF is tanking.
Exactly, i think that he is not running with KV activated.... but well, just my impression. That's why i asked him about his stuff, but i think we can sit tight until he does.
Or maybe guys it means that
1. I was running KV and Enforced Threat and enhanced mark . . . . and 2. that means nothing when the GWF sprints ahead and then melts everything before the rest of us (except the 2nd GWF) can get there
yeah, lets add some more defence to that sprint - great suggestion @defiantone99, I'd say more but I'd be breaking the rules
let's give him some more HP on his armour - lol, just lol lol lol
your arguments are a joke, not even a funny one, and the two other fan bois - well let's just say they must be curley and moe
why don't you three admit that this thread is all about PvP and the QQ some poor GWF's must be having when once in a while you can't steam roll a GF without breaking stride.
It has nothing to do with PvE (or the viability of GWF's in that space) and you would gladly destroy the balance of PvE for your ego's
either that or you are so deluded, that I actually feel sorry for you, but I doubt that, so I don't
its you 3 vs 20 or so that say you are wrong - at some stage when you mature (or a large rock falls on your head and bangs some sense into it) maybe you will realize (if this isn't just the three of you getting together and starting a flame baiting thread) that sometimes when everyone else is on the other side, it is because you are wrong
What the Dev's / mods need to do is create a spam section in the forums, and move this thread (and the other threads you have created) into it, then we can continue this "discussion" without fear of breaking the rules.
I don't think I have participated in a more ridiculous discussion ever
I would love to see a video of a GWF soloing CN with an augment instead of a bonding pet. My bet is that the only class that can do that is a GF.
I'm pretty sure GFs can't solo CN at all due to bugged Skeletal Warriors at 2nd boss, they can prone over shield and VM. I've spend over 3h fighting Cthylar, trying nearly every possible power, playstyle, companion mix... and best I managed was bringing him down to 2/3 hp, before adds prone-locked me to death
When it comes to the main topic and all the "GF praising", please keep in mind that GF can either tank or dps. For example in dungeon while I use my usual tank setup I deal only half the damage I could do with dps setup (which btw is based on mimicking GWF playstyle). And even if I'd go full dps, I'd still have hard time to keep up with an equally geared/skilled GWF. But of course, I don't deny that GF could use a small nerf to weapon damage in exchange for aggro buff and a fix to ITF + DC powers interaction, after all GFs primary role is not a dps
I don't think I have participated in a more ridiculous discussion ever
I've never seen a more despicable thread then this one here. You and me have tried to join in this conversation respectively and it's just flame after flame. It's the pathetic strategy being used here. Mods. Why is this being allowed to continue?
They want people to stop by and post things they agree with and attack on-site all posters that they don't agree with. This is a noise-generation thread to push their own agendas through ruthless tactics.
You're not going to be taken seriously, just like I wasn't. They're going to gang up and bully you into just giving up, or agreeing with them on their ridiculous premise that their overpowered class needs to be more overpowered because their ego demands #1 in paingiver or copious whining ensues.
Comments
My GWF jumps in a mobgroup and nearly can´t die as long as I got that lifesteal-boon running.
Before the HP nerf I did so many edemo runs, watching 3k+ GWF litterally tanking the hole 3. phase and all mobs arround by spamming WMS, while some poor Hunter and TR´s were send home
GWF got some improvement in mod 6, leeding the paingiver till now. GF´s..maybe some deal great damage, maybe under special circumstances, buffed, using special powers like Knight´s challlenge or steel blitz+commander strike, but til now I did not meet that much doing so, and the big numbers in Tiamat+edemo aer not representataive, since this is all about Buff-overkill and some feats/powers as mentioned. ITF , yes a tonedown would be great to get things in line.
Mod 5 was DC/TR-Rising , getting tortured by SE til now. Mod 6, the "dark mod", Paladin showed us how boring PVE/PVP can be.
There is a Hunter class and a unsolven broken Warlock class, wich obviuosly never will be fixed, having redicules broken feats and powers. I am Pretty sure the devs fear, in case they touch this mess and fix it, the class will be underwhelming.
Before GWF get´s a rework the class should get in queue with all those classes who are mouldering in a corner for so long now.
My impression is, that some classes are underrepresented in this game, since devs have near no clue about them?
I have always grumbled silently to myself whenever I hear someone trying to push others into a best build/gear etc for a specific class. But I am somewhat puzzled on how exactly you can build a GWF and have issues...............
It is rather funny to see how much attention this thread is getting, and really sad all the same. My crystal ball sees a closure and movement incoming............or is that clouds and rain down there hmmmmm
I'm a GF but don't have R20 SH buffs or the twisted set so I can't reproduce it, but don't deny it's a problem. And agreeing some more. Especially the last part. But I don't always think they're apprehensive to nerf what is most popular, or inversely, more likely to nerf the underrepresented. Example like the LoL set, perm-bubble. It's either they're very out of touch with their own game or knowingly add overpowered items/pets/skills for reasons I'm not aware of. But I do think some classes just get forgotten about and have not scaled well to the new mods. I would not put the GWF or the GF in that category.
maybe that's because you do very little explaining or offer anything constructive. Its nearly all criticisms of other posters. If you go back through this thread, mostly what you have done is criticise other ppls opinions or them, posted videos about GF's on a GWF thread and in general complained about GF's or made some very vague comments about buffs.
You have spent a lot of effort on GF's in this thread but the closest you come to a GWF suggestion is this . . . .
"Pls, devs, increase GWF's damage too together our survivality and our tankiness!!!!"
. . . . how is anyone supposed to understand what you mean by that. Good luck to the Dev's
Whilst I might disagree with the OP, the OP actually says something about what they think need to be done.
.
.
"Well, TBH , what i had leant from all those tests i made was this: the GWF class is a real mess and it's really out dated. It needs an update or rework ASAP."
- please explain this to the GWF soloing orcus and the others that are constantly topping the paingiver charts and kicking butt in PVE
I believe that there should be a trade off between DPS and defence, this has been they way of D&D and RPG / MMORPG games since the internet began (and I was playing RPG / D&D around when the internet began)
so if you want GWF's to get more defence and tankability, offer some suggestions on how this is done without just adding it to the DPS king tree, otherwise it is destroying the balance of the game
you say you have the good of the game at heart, but to be honest they appear to be empty words
why are there not more than 3 GWF's telling how bad it is, most are saying it is fine
and I just ran CN with two GWFs, a DC and a CW all above 3K
The top GWF also topped immovable object and I am a tank spec'd GF, how is that for tankability??
I'd post some screen shots and embed fancy vids etc. except I don't know how or probably more to the point, couldn't be stuffed figuring out how to do it
and who is talking about war - not this side of the argument, all the aggression is coming from . . . . . guess where . . . . . . the G "god complex" W "we wanna face palm the whole game F "f you all" GWF's
My response to that is....well DUH. Its not a defensive GWF. He shouldn't be able to tank Orcus.
Even GF struggle vs that boss, wich deal crazy ammounts of damage, but that´s the way it should be.
My GF at 2,8k GS will be melted in seconds having an offensive/PVP setup and not enough HP, even 3k+ GF´s have issues, some go with a purple yeti, some chain dailies slotting steel defense, all in all there is nothing to argue about a GWF tanking Orcus.
But as mentioned before a 3k+ GWF is able to tank edemo 3.phase, saw this 100 times.
A GWF is able to tank T1+T2 even running a damage spec., soloing tose dungeons. There are tons of videos before HP nerf and even after that nerf there is enough options to solo T1, maybe T2 also, can´t tell.
Why on earth should this class get more tankyness?
Imo no class should be able solo T1 or T2....I would like to have this done exclusivley to a group with a tank and a healer.
Honestly, the topic is more about the fact, that GWF as a melee class has problems to facetank a GF, wich is a problem for lot´s of classes, my warlock suffers the same, no dodge.
But this issue is more solved by a tonedown from ITF and maybe some adjustments.
The need for more tankyness is not directed to PVE, since most GWF in this thread, who vote for improvement are strictly PVP player , I would suggest to solve this issue not by giving a class, that is near invinceable at BIS, more tankyness.
Even in mod 8 it was a hard task to get down that GWF, not possible for my class/setup, and avoid to get 3-hittet. Now we got insignias on top....
The true intention of this therad is covered and found in the imbalance of classes in PVP these days.
But PVP is messed up by so many stuff and not a viable base to argue about balancing classes arround broken enchants, drians, insignias, mounts, SH boons etc.
Imo we need mayor issues fixed before asking for nerfs/buffs.
Btw I do not ask for anything for my class atm and accept it´s broken state, having tons of useless encounter and feats, beeing viable in PVP only at BIS level and dealing >50% of the damage based on buggs in PVE.
GF is no leader? Ok, gimme that ITF, since warlock is the worst buffer from all classes.
Every CW, TR, Hunter, GF, OP, DC even the GWF i guess beats a warlock in group-buffing...sad, this really proves how bad the class is designed from the start
Leaders are healers, buffers and debuffers. Their powers support the party's success either by healing damage taken, preventing damage from being taken or increasing the damage enemies take.
Gonne setup a thread and cry for improvement immidiately
Next, I have been in party with gwf who where undergeared and yet manage to fight and survive fair enough. And I have seen when more better geared gwf died almost in every step. Why? Simply he where lazy try to dodge incoming hits, and literally eat all incoming hits. And latter complain why my DC is not capable to keep him alive..
Next instead run like hot headed/brainless directly in to incoming hits try avoid them?
Also top reason why I think no need gwf extra buffing is that Great Weapon Fighter is not TANK<< his role is primary dps. secondary sub tank. Thats mean for lower tear dungeons u can tanks as much u want, but for top tear dungeons u must have real tank> Paladin or Guardian.
Now gwf simply want to be tank + dps freak in one.. Give me a break. it will become pure gwf parties all time.. Maybe extra DC inside party and thats it...
sorry for english....
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
1. I was running KV and Enforced Threat and enhanced mark . . . . and
2. that means nothing when the GWF sprints ahead and then melts everything before the rest of us (except the 2nd GWF) can get there
yeah, lets add some more defence to that sprint - great suggestion @defiantone99, I'd say more but I'd be breaking the rules
let's give him some more HP on his armour - lol, just lol lol lol
your arguments are a joke, not even a funny one, and the two other fan bois - well let's just say they must be curley and moe
why don't you three admit that this thread is all about PvP and the QQ some poor GWF's must be having when once in a while you can't steam roll a GF without breaking stride.
It has nothing to do with PvE (or the viability of GWF's in that space) and you would gladly destroy the balance of PvE for your ego's
either that or you are so deluded, that I actually feel sorry for you, but I doubt that, so I don't
its you 3 vs 20 or so that say you are wrong - at some stage when you mature (or a large rock falls on your head and bangs some sense into it) maybe you will realize (if this isn't just the three of you getting together and starting a flame baiting thread) that sometimes when everyone else is on the other side, it is because you are wrong
What the Dev's / mods need to do is create a spam section in the forums, and move this thread (and the other threads you have created) into it, then we can continue this "discussion" without fear of breaking the rules.
I don't think I have participated in a more ridiculous discussion ever
I've spend over 3h fighting Cthylar, trying nearly every possible power, playstyle, companion mix... and best I managed was bringing him down to 2/3 hp, before adds prone-locked me to death
When it comes to the main topic and all the "GF praising", please keep in mind that GF can either tank or dps. For example in dungeon while I use my usual tank setup I deal only half the damage I could do with dps setup (which btw is based on mimicking GWF playstyle). And even if I'd go full dps, I'd still have hard time to keep up with an equally geared/skilled GWF. But of course, I don't deny that GF could use a small nerf to weapon damage in exchange for aggro buff and a fix to ITF + DC powers interaction, after all GFs primary role is not a dps
You and me have tried to join in this conversation respectively and it's just flame after flame. It's the pathetic strategy being used here.
Mods. Why is this being allowed to continue?
They want people to stop by and post things they agree with and attack on-site all posters that they don't agree with.
This is a noise-generation thread to push their own agendas through ruthless tactics.
You're not going to be taken seriously, just like I wasn't.
They're going to gang up and bully you into just giving up, or agreeing with them on their ridiculous premise that their overpowered class needs to be more overpowered because their ego demands #1 in paingiver or copious whining ensues.