We are not going to pay $10 US for a Coalescent Ward on the Zen Market. That is absolutely preposterous.
well.... you actually would have paid 10 usd for the 10 keys to open boxes in order to get 75 bars soooo.....
it's the failsafe of the lockbox. so many of them have HAMSTER instead of anything useful that getting those bars means you are (were) at least getting one thing of value.
I have a dream that Coal Wards were available as advertised in the past announcements and all was well in the sword coast! But who am I kidding dreaming is for children. Fix it before we ditch it BRUH!
Guardian Fighter: SM Conqueror
[]Full Metal Witch[] 4149 TiL Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best" "Nobody does it better" #TLO BiS
With 10 characters it happens more than youd think Im sitting on plenty of TBs
same here. 8 characters pray faithfully everyday and have over 4000 tradebars. But my comment was not to you but to the person I was quoting that said they bought a million Ad worth of keys...understand now?
I thought you were justifying the actions of the devs by saying 10$ for Cward= 10$ for 75 tbs.
I was just stating 75tbs = 0$ for me not 10$ understand?
I know that if you go that option you're banned from the game permanently.
My understanding is that is true of you reverse the funds by telling your bank. Not sure how that would work out if it was Microsoft that reversed the transaction. In fact, in that case I think that they wouldn't actually reverse the charge - knowing MS they would credit your XBL account with the cash value and then pursue PWE for for payment.
Or at least, that's my understanding. Perhaps the folks who are complaining can let us know (although if we believe them, they are "done with Neverwinter forever", despite every UD skirmish loading instantly, the drowned shore being full to capacity and continuous groups running HEs in DR/IWD/WoD.)
For every person who read the update (and wasted money) there are likely 3-4 standard Xbox players that had no idea of what was promised, and therefore no idea what they're missing. The game is in no danger of dying out for the next few week. But this still isn't a win for PWE - Xbox gamers are migratory. The move from game to game, following the next new game or DLC. The people that this move annoyed were the hard-core core of the game - the passionate, engaged fans who would play even if Witcher, Fallout and Division were out that same week. It's far more likely to hurt the bottom line than annoying the standard users would.
Casual Gamers
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories. "In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
The fact that this hasn't been officially addressed at this point is just embarrassing and pathetic.
Seriously, even with "all the moving parts to consider" by now the company knows whether or not they're putting them back in. At this point, smart money would be betting on the "not at this point" option.
It's pretty obvious with the zen and key sale that happened today (which I find to be absolutely incredible that they had the gall to launch given everything going on, I'm almost not even mad about it. Almost.) they wanted to gauge how all these threats of not spending more money would stand up if tested. The fact that we haven't gotten any statement yet is a good indicator that not enough people held their ground and abstained from spending more money until we got what we were promised.
It's kind of sad, really. If they would just pulled their heads out of their a@&es, they probably could have salvaged the situation by coupling this sale with doing what is so obviously the right thing and putting the wards and stones in as they had advertised.
That dev quote earlier in the thread makes me think that the problem is more tricky to solve than we think. I know we are assuming it's just a quick config change to get wards into store - just patch it and there you go. If that was this simple I suspect they wouldn't be waiting so long to consider their choices and would make the fix be part of today's patch.
What I suppose might actually be happening is that because of the developer's mistake (be it a bug of feature) the game patch we've got on Feb 9th lacks the code required to add these item to the Trade Bar Store and publishing new game patch to Xbox would be a rather time consuming process. In which case you end up with a number of options of what you can do without a patch. Like giving things away, changing Zen Store prices, turning on events, etc. But none of these options is equivalent to adding Trade Bars to the store, so you have to consider all the choices. Perhaps also discuss it with a few people from the community. This coincidentally explains the lowered level of moderator activity.
So no ward that has been confirmed, 2x Enchants and 2x AD cancelled for a 2x RP in its place for today - Sunday which has since been moved to next week. Sincerely what in the h-e-double hockey sticks is going on with this company? This is just no....I can't.... I just can't anymore right now....Give us what we have coming and I sure as heck am not saying please.
Guardian Fighter: SM Conqueror
[]Full Metal Witch[] 4149 TiL Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best" "Nobody does it better" #TLO BiS
That dev quote earlier in the thread makes me think that the problem is more tricky to solve than we think. I know we are assuming it's just a quick config change to get wards into store - just patch it and there you go. If that was this simple I suspect they wouldn't be waiting so long to consider their choices and would make the fix be part of today's patch.
What I suppose might actually be happening is that because of the developer's mistake (be it a bug of feature) the game patch we've got on Feb 9th lacks the code required to add these item to the Trade Bar Store and publishing new game patch to Xbox would be a rather time consuming process. In which case you end up with a number of options of what you can do without a patch. Like giving things away, changing Zen Store prices, turning on events, etc. But none of these options is equivalent to adding Trade Bars to the store, so you have to consider all the choices. Perhaps also discuss it with a few people from the community. This coincidentally explains the lowered level of moderator activity.
I don't think so in this case. I think they're putting a spin on it for damage control. they don't want to change it. I'm usually an apologist for game companies but in this case there is no good explanation other than bait and switch bottle neck cash grab.
they have a brand new ceo. I'm guessing that he put out a mandate to make MOAR MONEYS because yah know new ceos have to prove that they're awesome and stuffz. and now they have to sort it out with the new ceo who of course wouldn't want to reverse on something like that cause he's still trying to prove himself and to come up with egg on the face so early on? oh no.. subterfuge and what not. roll some heads. it's gonna be complicated. that's what I think happened.
That dev quote earlier in the thread makes me think that the problem is more tricky to solve than we think. I know we are assuming it's just a quick config change to get wards into store - just patch it and there you go. If that was this simple I suspect they wouldn't be waiting so long to consider their choices and would make the fix be part of today's patch.
I think it is complicated, but I don't think it's a technical complication. Edited from a post on Reddit:
"Coals are really the only recurring purchase a player has to make as they level up their characters. Everything else pertaining to character development--marks, artifacts, raw RP, gear, boons--none of those require the Zen Market's participation. Coals do, though. And PWE relies on a steady stream of customers cycling through the same content, arriving at that moment when they finally need a Coal Ward.
But the amount of currency currently in circulation would cause a crash in cost of Coalescent Wards and Blood Rubies in the auction house, which means no one would need to buy them with Zen. When Zen traded at ~110 this fall, Coalescent Wards dipped below 100k. Purchased with 15% off coupons players were undercutting each other to take advantage of the low price. If they return 75 Coals back, doubtless, we are headed for the bottom, likely less that 100k. How long that crash would be perpetuated is anybody's guess, but it must have terrified them over at PWE. "
For me, this is the question that they are likely struggling with.
Casual Gamers
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories. "In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
That dev quote earlier in the thread makes me think that the problem is more tricky to solve than we think. I know we are assuming it's just a quick config change to get wards into store - just patch it and there you go. If that was this simple I suspect they wouldn't be waiting so long to consider their choices and would make the fix be part of today's patch.
What I suppose might actually be happening is that because of the developer's mistake (be it a bug of feature) the game patch we've got on Feb 9th lacks the code required to add these item to the Trade Bar Store and publishing new game patch to Xbox would be a rather time consuming process. In which case you end up with a number of options of what you can do without a patch. Like giving things away, changing Zen Store prices, turning on events, etc. But none of these options is equivalent to adding Trade Bars to the store, so you have to consider all the choices. Perhaps also discuss it with a few people from the community. This coincidentally explains the lowered level of moderator activity.
If that were the case then why not release a statement on the decision regaurdless of when it will be patched in. They are being stubborn trying to milk it for all they can. They dont care what we want. But they pay strum to put on the facade that someone cares. They want the weekend to pass so we wont be so " high strung" on the trade bar issue.
Even if that were true, it doesn't change the facts that:
1. At this point they know what their plan in regards to adding them back in asap, or moving ahead with their "original" terribly disclosed plan and have not announced even that information, which is what probably 85% of people coming here want to know.
2. They haven't given any explanation for their original thinking at all, which shouldn't take any time as presumably they already know what their thinking was. Other than "all your monies are belong to us!", they must have seen some trend that made them think this was a justifiable idea. Again, no comment made on this.
3. They haven't said that the modification at this point would be an issue as far as coding or the technical part of implementing it. Not even hinted at it. If this were part of the issue, I feel like they would have jumped at the chance to immediately point it out in an effort to hold back the flood of irate customers wanting answers and an immediate change.
But the amount of currency currently in circulation would cause a crash in cost of Coalescent Wards and Blood Rubies in the auction house, which means no one would need to buy them with Zen. When Zen traded at ~110 this fall, Coalescent Wards dipped below 100k. Purchased with 15% off coupons players were undercutting each other to take advantage of the low price. If they return 75 Coals back, doubtless, we are headed for the bottom, likely less that 100k. How long that crash would be perpetuated is anybody's guess, but it must have terrified them over at PWE. "
For me, this is the question that they are likely struggling with.
You may very well be right but that I think is one of the horrible symptoms of things wrong in American businesses now. For years everyone has talked about how Gen X people think they deserve everything, and are owed everything. The point most people are missing is that has made its way into American businesses now too. They all feel they shouldn't ever have to take a risk in order to maximize profit. It's the insurance model of business, analyze things to death until you eliminate all the risks. The problem with that is with nothing to loose you get slow evolutionary growth instead of revolutionary change and growth.
So lets say your supposition is correct, and it very well may be. The problem here is they are risking loosing 10-30% of their high level power players over this. The ones who this meant the most to, the ones who spend the most other than the occasional money blaster who pays their way from level 6-60. The high level people who help newbs to get better and like the game more, the advocates who convince people to try the game. They are willing to alienate them over the short term dip in the economy. The huge stockpiles of trade bars people have in Xbox is roughly analogous to the huge stockpiles of AD that people have on the PC side. The difference is that the stockpiles are orders of magnitude smaller. The other thing is if they are so bloody concerned about long term surplus of any in game currency causing a depression in the financial markets create a new event. Create an event that in order to purchase the desirable items it burns not only unique even currency but also large amounts of t-bars. Or make a higher risk t-bar purchase available, like a super chest that has 1% of the chance of a normal chest but they can buy them for a bar or 2. So in the end is the loss of those people worth it? Because PWE shouldn't kid themselves they have a finite customer base, its not going to grow forever. Some Xbox players burned out with Strong holds, some before that, but to punch the community in the nose like this..
The reason I say this is hitting the power users worse is in all honesty before level 60 I never purchased a single Coal ward. I think lower levels dont use these near as much as the other wards.
There are more than a smattering of reports of high attrition with this mod (couldn't tell you personally as I have held to my refusal to log in until this is over). People are leaving. It could be they want to make sure people come back over the weekend before they commit to a long term course of action. Right now they just may be waiting to take a breath. I think though that someone is holding on to a dream of how the numbers could have been if they hadn't totally screwed this up.
Pastor Martin Niemöller had it right, but remember, before they come for anyone, they silence all, because to have discourse, is to breed discontent.
if they resolve the issue and give us coal wards and blood rubies I'm might start playing but as of now I'm not even touching the game just booting it up to pray get my enchanted key and I'm out had the coal wards blood rubies and this zen sale and key sale been together I would've easily spent 500$ to get everything ready for next week but its a pipe dream now
So I get home to find that there were no changes in Neverwinter which I anticipated. So I spent the evening playing GTA with almost all of my hard core Neverwinter friends. Decided, oh well. Spent my Neverwinter money on uprades in GTA. Had a lot of fun and starting to realize now that I will get over Neverwinter soon enough should they choose not to live up to their words. We have already made plans to spend the weekend in GTA. So as I see it that's several 100 combined hours we will not be on Neverwinter servers and a several hundred dollars not spent the Neverwinter game platform. Think maybe I'll by a yacht. They don't require blood rubies or c-wards...
if they resolve the issue and give us coal wards and blood rubies I'm might start playing but as of now I'm not even touching the game just booting it up to pray get my enchanted key and I'm out
Good. I am refusing to even go that far, it makes me feel bad to waste the VIP bennies my wife bought me but I want them to understand, I am not backing down, I am just getting started. I dont have to work again till 2/22. My time is my own, and guess what, if I am not playing because they screwed us I will be talking to MS and on Xbox forums, and to players and warning them to never ever get mixed up with games from Arc/Cryptic/PWE because they pull things like this.
Pastor Martin Niemöller had it right, but remember, before they come for anyone, they silence all, because to have discourse, is to breed discontent.
I'd actually be ok with it if they lowered the price (of the coalward) in the zen store to like 150 zen or so. that would be affordable for the masses. the problem with their zen store is their stuff is just so massively overpriced. they'd get a lot more transactions from a lot more people if it were cheaper. i've never understood the business model with these things. you might get 5 people willing to pay 20 dollars where you're going to get 500 who'd be willing to pay 2. a few 50 or 60 dollar super enticing items are fine. put it out there for those who'd have just straight up bought the game if it weren't FTP. each expansion put out a new pack that is equivalent to DLC prices from other games. people who would buy the dlc normally would probably support it by buying it. I know that's how I started out here. I put in 90 dollars which is about what I'd have paid for the dlc that was out and for the game. I figured I'd keep supporting it as dlcs rolled out that way. wasn't gonna pay more than that 'cause nickle and diming.. lame. But I pretty much cut that out shortly after. I don't remember what happened just the trust was severed. They were winning me back with the whole christmas thing and the way they kept giving us regular stuff that was pretty trustworthy. then this. they're never seeing another dime from me if I continue playing this game.
I'd actually be ok with it if they lowered the price (of the coalward) in the zen store to like 150 zen or so. that would be affordable for the masses. the problem with their zen store is their stuff is just so massively overpriced. they'd get a lot more transactions from a lot more people if it were cheaper.
Yeah even if they give 100% of what they promised at this point, this fiasco has done one thing. It made me go look at my XBL account and how much I had spent on this game. I have spent more on the zen market in this game than I have spent on purchasing games in the last 5 years. That is a sobering thought. For the amount I have spent on zen I could have purchased 4 xboxes.
Pastor Martin Niemöller had it right, but remember, before they come for anyone, they silence all, because to have discourse, is to breed discontent.
I'd actually be ok with it if they lowered the price (of the coalward) in the zen store to like 150 zen or so. that would be affordable for the masses. the problem with their zen store is their stuff is just so massively overpriced. they'd get a lot more transactions from a lot more people if it were cheaper. i've never understood the business model with these things. you might get 5 people willing to pay 20 dollars where you're going to get 500 who'd be willing to pay 2. a few 50 or 60 dollar super enticing items are fine. put it out there for those who'd have just straight up bought the game if it weren't FTP. each expansion put out a new pack that is equivalent to DLC prices from other games. people who would buy the dlc normally would probably support it by buying it. I know that's how I started out here. I put in 90 dollars which is about what I'd have paid for the dlc that was out and for the game. I figured I'd keep supporting it as dlcs rolled out that way. wasn't gonna pay more than that 'cause nickle and diming.. lame. But I pretty much cut that out shortly after. I don't remember what happened just the trust was severed. They were winning me back with the whole christmas thing and the way they kept giving us regular stuff that was pretty trustworthy. then this. they're never seeing another dime from me if I continue playing this game.
Youre exactly right, I dont understand the high cost either. Theres nothing being manufactured, shipped, transported, stored, assembled etc. Just flat out greed. I hope theres more of us who have the dignity to truely close the door on this company when they make the wrong decision.
I am a computer programmer. Depending on their setup it would take anywhere from 2 seconds to five minutes to fix this problem from a technical standpoint. If it is the five minute fix, it would also require a server reset, which no one would complain about.
In regards to all the people supporting them by saying they need to make money some how, this is not the way to do it. Had they just left the coal wards in there, the price would have dropped, those wards would have been used, the trade bars with which they were purchased would quickly deplete. (Math tells us that if you had 7500 trade bars and bought only c wards, that's 100 upgrades. Assuming you don't bother with them till rank 11 and 12, which most will start earlier, that's now fifty gems. 20 on one end game character. 12 for his companions, disregarding slotted equipment on them. This means roughly 3 end game characters eat all those bars, if they started using wards on the way to rank 11. ) people now need more wards. They see that $10 price tag and consider it. They instead buy some keys, maybe they get lucky. Worse case scenario, they get the bars to buy their ward. They quickly realize they have to buy a few stacks of ten to amount to 75 bars. They don't want to give up now, what's a few more keys?
I don't see how any players(though obviously a minority) are defending the actions here.
Comments
it's the failsafe of the lockbox. so many of them have HAMSTER instead of anything useful that getting those bars means you are (were) at least getting one thing of value.
[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
same here. 8 characters pray faithfully everyday and have over 4000 tradebars. But my comment was not to you but to the person I was quoting that said they bought a million Ad worth of keys...understand now?
I thought you were justifying the actions of the devs by saying 10$ for Cward= 10$ for 75 tbs.
I was just stating 75tbs = 0$ for me not 10$ understand?
Or at least, that's my understanding. Perhaps the folks who are complaining can let us know (although if we believe them, they are "done with Neverwinter forever", despite every UD skirmish loading instantly, the drowned shore being full to capacity and continuous groups running HEs in DR/IWD/WoD.)
For every person who read the update (and wasted money) there are likely 3-4 standard Xbox players that had no idea of what was promised, and therefore no idea what they're missing. The game is in no danger of dying out for the next few week.
But this still isn't a win for PWE - Xbox gamers are migratory. The move from game to game, following the next new game or DLC. The people that this move annoyed were the hard-core core of the game - the passionate, engaged fans who would play even if Witcher, Fallout and Division were out that same week. It's far more likely to hurt the bottom line than annoying the standard users would.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
Seriously, even with "all the moving parts to consider" by now the company knows whether or not they're putting them back in. At this point, smart money would be betting on the "not at this point" option.
It's pretty obvious with the zen and key sale that happened today (which I find to be absolutely incredible that they had the gall to launch given everything going on, I'm almost not even mad about it. Almost.) they wanted to gauge how all these threats of not spending more money would stand up if tested. The fact that we haven't gotten any statement yet is a good indicator that not enough people held their ground and abstained from spending more money until we got what we were promised.
It's kind of sad, really. If they would just pulled their heads out of their a@&es, they probably could have salvaged the situation by coupling this sale with doing what is so obviously the right thing and putting the wards and stones in as they had advertised.
What I suppose might actually be happening is that because of the developer's mistake (be it a bug of feature) the game patch we've got on Feb 9th lacks the code required to add these item to the Trade Bar Store and publishing new game patch to Xbox would be a rather time consuming process. In which case you end up with a number of options of what you can do without a patch. Like giving things away, changing Zen Store prices, turning on events, etc. But none of these options is equivalent to adding Trade Bars to the store, so you have to consider all the choices. Perhaps also discuss it with a few people from the community. This coincidentally explains the lowered level of moderator activity.
[]Full Metal Witch[]
4149 TiL
Guild: (X1) The Legendary Outlaws
"The Best of the Best"
"Nobody does it better"
#TLO BiS
they have a brand new ceo. I'm guessing that he put out a mandate to make MOAR MONEYS because yah know new ceos have to prove that they're awesome and stuffz. and now they have to sort it out with the new ceo who of course wouldn't want to reverse on something like that cause he's still trying to prove himself and to come up with egg on the face so early on? oh no.. subterfuge and what not. roll some heads. it's gonna be complicated. that's what I think happened.
"Coals are really the only recurring purchase a player has to make as they level up their characters. Everything else pertaining to character development--marks, artifacts, raw RP, gear, boons--none of those require the Zen Market's participation. Coals do, though. And PWE relies on a steady stream of customers cycling through the same content, arriving at that moment when they finally need a Coal Ward.
But the amount of currency currently in circulation would cause a crash in cost of Coalescent Wards and Blood Rubies in the auction house, which means no one would need to buy them with Zen.
When Zen traded at ~110 this fall, Coalescent Wards dipped below 100k. Purchased with 15% off coupons players were undercutting each other to take advantage of the low price. If they return 75 Coals back, doubtless, we are headed for the bottom, likely less that 100k.
How long that crash would be perpetuated is anybody's guess, but it must have terrified them over at PWE. "
For me, this is the question that they are likely struggling with.
Join us brothers and sisters and distant relations and confused onlookers.
Join us in the shadows where we stand mostly vigilant... although slightly distracted by our inventories.
"In war, unqualified. In peace, disorganised. In death, mild irritation."
JOIN US.
Even if that were true, it doesn't change the facts that:
1. At this point they know what their plan in regards to adding them back in asap, or moving ahead with their "original" terribly disclosed plan and have not announced even that information, which is what probably 85% of people coming here want to know.
2. They haven't given any explanation for their original thinking at all, which shouldn't take any time as presumably they already know what their thinking was. Other than "all your monies are belong to us!", they must have seen some trend that made them think this was a justifiable idea. Again, no comment made on this.
3. They haven't said that the modification at this point would be an issue as far as coding or the technical part of implementing it. Not even hinted at it. If this were part of the issue, I feel like they would have jumped at the chance to immediately point it out in an effort to hold back the flood of irate customers wanting answers and an immediate change.
So lets say your supposition is correct, and it very well may be. The problem here is they are risking loosing 10-30% of their high level power players over this. The ones who this meant the most to, the ones who spend the most other than the occasional money blaster who pays their way from level 6-60. The high level people who help newbs to get better and like the game more, the advocates who convince people to try the game. They are willing to alienate them over the short term dip in the economy. The huge stockpiles of trade bars people have in Xbox is roughly analogous to the huge stockpiles of AD that people have on the PC side. The difference is that the stockpiles are orders of magnitude smaller. The other thing is if they are so bloody concerned about long term surplus of any in game currency causing a depression in the financial markets create a new event. Create an event that in order to purchase the desirable items it burns not only unique even currency but also large amounts of t-bars. Or make a higher risk t-bar purchase available, like a super chest that has 1% of the chance of a normal chest but they can buy them for a bar or 2. So in the end is the loss of those people worth it? Because PWE shouldn't kid themselves they have a finite customer base, its not going to grow forever. Some Xbox players burned out with Strong holds, some before that, but to punch the community in the nose like this..
The reason I say this is hitting the power users worse is in all honesty before level 60 I never purchased a single Coal ward. I think lower levels dont use these near as much as the other wards.
There are more than a smattering of reports of high attrition with this mod (couldn't tell you personally as I have held to my refusal to log in until this is over). People are leaving. It could be they want to make sure people come back over the weekend before they commit to a long term course of action. Right now they just may be waiting to take a breath. I think though that someone is holding on to a dream of how the numbers could have been if they hadn't totally screwed this up.
I am a computer programmer. Depending on their setup it would take anywhere from 2 seconds to five minutes to fix this problem from a technical standpoint. If it is the five minute fix, it would also require a server reset, which no one would complain about.
In regards to all the people supporting them by saying they need to make money some how, this is not the way to do it. Had they just left the coal wards in there, the price would have dropped, those wards would have been used, the trade bars with which they were purchased would quickly deplete. (Math tells us that if you had 7500 trade bars and bought only c wards, that's 100 upgrades. Assuming you don't bother with them till rank 11 and 12, which most will start earlier, that's now fifty gems. 20 on one end game character. 12 for his companions, disregarding slotted equipment on them. This means roughly 3 end game characters eat all those bars, if they started using wards on the way to rank 11. ) people now need more wards. They see that $10 price tag and consider it. They instead buy some keys, maybe they get lucky. Worse case scenario, they get the bars to buy their ward. They quickly realize they have to buy a few stacks of ten to amount to 75 bars. They don't want to give up now, what's a few more keys?
I don't see how any players(though obviously a minority) are defending the actions here.