Lots of people chiming in on this, but I want to give some numbers. So say you run it with 5 characters. You just spent more than an hour doing an activity that gets you nothing but Influence and a handful of RP and maybe a few other things to cram into the coffer, and that's your gaming time for the day and you got 1725 Influence, no AD, no significant amounts of campaign currency or surplus equipment, and you didn't really get to do anything fun either
I think this is actually a very general issue of the game. It too often pulls you out of stuff you'd like to do and forces you into stuff you have to do. Almost every important area comes with an individual grind that nets you little else in the process.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Lots of people chiming in on this, but I want to give some numbers. So say you run it with 5 characters. You just spent more than an hour doing an activity that gets you nothing but Influence and a handful of RP and maybe a few other things to cram into the coffer, and that's your gaming time for the day and you got 1725 Influence, no AD, no significant amounts of campaign currency or surplus equipment, and you didn't really get to do anything fun either
I think this is actually a very general issue of the game. It too often pulls you out of stuff you'd like to do and forces you into stuff you have to do. Almost every important area comes with an individual grind that nets you little else in the process.
True dat.
(Edit: In a nutshell, why people don't spend more time in Foundry quests.)
I'm guild leader of a Lv 15 Guild and I would like to give you our feedback. We usually have 20-40 players everyday, very cooperative with their donations and the daily grind. However, there are 3 main things that are not longer fun anymore: Influence, Fey Trinkets and Conqueror's Shards. Firstly, Influence, it is extremely boring to farm the same heroic encounters every day. We have been doing the same thing not only with 1 character but several. We try to farm the HE for 15+ players in order to change the monotony but it's still the same. We want to feel like we are doing certain activities that generates resources that we will be able to contribute to the guild and not like we are supposed to work (like a job) for our guild running the same tedious routine of farming HE again and again.
Farming Sharandar is annoying because it doesn't feel rewarding to spend a lot of time doing daily quests just to deliver a small amount of resources to the mimic. I'll give you an example: If we want to farm Tyranny we can do Dragon Runs in Well of Dragons or Tiamat, that means that we are also receiving AD after selling some items while doing stuff together as a guild. Same thing in Dread Ring, we are doing the daily lairs and receiving greater marks that we need for our characters or we can also sell them. As you can see, both areas are rewarding and doesn't really feel like a pain at all because you are running content that will benefit your guild and yourself directly.
Regarding to the Conqueror's Shards, we are mainly a PvE guild and we really dislike the fact that if we want one of the best boon structures in the game (barracks) then it is necessary to do PvP. It is simply not right to throw PvE players to PvP when they are just looking for something that they only want to use in PvE. I can understand that you want to encourage the PvP environment by adding more players but I'm sure that most PvP players are looking for quality instead of quantity and I'm not going deeper in this issue, considering that there are a ton of reports written every day by these PvPers. Solving their issues would bring a better PvP life for the whole game and using baits like adding conqueror's shards only for PvP matches won't be necessary anymore. I've already noticed that the new campaign will let us get a few shards but I'm afraid that it will not be enough.
I would like to suggest the following:
* Influence: Let us get influence by doing Heroic Encounters in every map of the game, the amount can be halved so we get the same actual amount if we do it in our strongholds and less in other areas. We are adventurers after all, aren't we supposed to get influence by helping in other zones?. Also, adding Influence to the Dragonflight event, 50 or 100 per dragon killed up to a certain daily limit.
* Sharandar: You could add RP like resonance stones, peridots, aquamarines, etc (not just thaumaturge, this isn't interesting) and a small chance to get a Preservation Ward BoA. Additionally, include in the loot for every lair his respective campaign resource, i.e: If I'm doing Witch Fen then I'll get more Abjuring Charms. In summary, running Sharandar and the lairs will be more interesting because I'll get a direct benefit plus resources for my guild. Getting additional resources won't have a major impact in the campaign because it's gated behind Feywild Sparks.
One more thing, could you please take a look to the Illerfarn Relic and/or the resources given by the Genie's Gift for Sharandar? The amount of resources is very, very low in comparison to the other campaigns and it doesn't make any sense to waste a Genie's Gift in Feywld Sparks or Gold Crescents.
* Conqueror's Shards: It would be great if there's a NPC that allow us to exchange one shard for another, maybe not a 1:1 ratio but that would solve a lot of problems for both PvE and PvP players considering that most of each position are not really interested in participating in both kind of content. PvE players that dislike to PvP will find another way to get Conqueror's and PvP players that don't want to do anything related to PvE will still be able to gather enough shards doing only what they really like to do. Are you guys tracking what are the players doing with their Fangs of the Dragonflight? After some months of killing dragons in the stronghold there's not really much to do with this item besides gearing up alts. Perhaps, you could add vouchers to the Marketplace that we can purchase with Fangs. Starting with Green Vouchers at Market Lv X, then Blue after Lv X and even Major Vouchers after certain Level with a cost of 20, 30, etc Fangs each.
As you can see, each one of these suggestions are based in playing the content that you have created for the players. It is a great idea to feel that almost everything I do in the game generate a contribution to my guild, not forced as an extremely boring grinding but as a way to play helping my guildies and myself at the same time.
Thank you very much for your attention.
+1 to these great ideas. Especially adding influence to the dragon event. This will help encourage some more guild activity and break up the terrible HE grind that we have now
Influence and AD is what has been worrying me the most as a guild leader of a medium (now) sized guild. Influence is really like going to work again instead of having some fun/relax when you come home. I'm not pushing too much on Influence on newest member cause i don't want them to reach the burn-out , i and other few, felt doing it every day with multiple chars (10+ myself) only cause the requirement are insane. Actually i can't do it more than twice a day, it really makes me sick.
I think that only one task available at time for Leadership coffer generation is not good; remove that cap and give us the possibility to do 3 tasks at time.
404 Italians Not Found Guild Leader
Matt Shieldheart 3.5k GF Conq PVE _ Matt Shieldheart 0 3.5k GF Tactician PVE _ Matt Shieldheart II 4.1k Buffer DC _ Matt Shieldheart III 4.3k Thauma CW _ Matt Shieldheart IV 3.5k Exe TR _ Matt Shieldheart V 3.9k Destroyer GWF _ Matt Shieldheart VI 3.1k Trapper HR _ Matt Shieldheart VII 3.1k Fury SW _ Matt ShieldheartVIII 3.6k OP Justice _ Matt Shieldheart -8 3.1k Healadin _ Matt Shieldheart -9 3.1k Mof Rene CW
Hi im a member of a rank 18 guild. In my experience the real bottleneck in progressing with stronghold were 1) Astral diamonds 2) Surplus items
Farming currencies was annoying as hell too and influence was easy farmable with a bit of sacrifice. i say this because the ads and surplus requirements are extremely high and surplus items are indeed the first way to farm ads. Its like a dog trying to bite its own tail.
It would be nice to have pvp gear as not salvageable gear (so pretty much 0 chance to exploit or to bot it) but able to drop from common pvp matches as reward. it would really help feeding the mimic and give updated reasons to run domination.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
Already pleased with proposed changes just from reading this post. I see you guys have put our suggestions to make professions more useful to Strongholds into development, which is nice.
Feedback: Major stumbling blocks for the small guild Influence and Dungeoneer Shards can both be tough requirements to meet. Many small guilds rely on members' alts to obtain more resources per person than would otherwise be possible, but the amount of Influence earned per character per day is painfully small compared to the amounts required to accomplish anything, and earning Influence means you are effectively doing nothing else useful for yourself or your guild. I know it's meant to be a progress gate, but the daily caps are brutal and requirements are high. Dungeoneer Shards are kind of the same problem; small guilds tend to hit player burnout long before they can actually meet these requirements. Running multiple alts for resources takes a long time. Dungeoneer Shard shortfalls can be alleviated by buying around the problem, but that should feel like an option rather than a requirement, even in a small guild.
Feedback: Crafting Influence We recognize that the daily Influence caps were designed to be one of the inhibitors for Stronghold progression, to prevent going "too fast". Still, with the amount small guilds have now been left in the dust, and with large guilds also slamming into the Influence wall when they're all set with everything else for their next upgrade(s), it may be worth considering making Influence craftable in Leadership as well. It's a thematic fit - doing charitable work enhances the good will of the people. Leadership is still fairly self-limiting with 3x task caps, glacial levelling progression, and presumably having to make choices between tasks to benefit the Stronghold or yourself (refinement). It has the potential to ease this grind immensely, for guilds of any size.
Feedback: Shard Exchange One proposal players have made a few times is to exchange one type of shard of power for another, at a 2:1 ratio to make it better to run all types of content, but still possible to progress from converting your surplus shards to make up your deficient ones. I have accumulated literally thousands of Heroic and Adventurer Shards totalled across multiple characters that I can't deposit until we empty the coffers, and I keep accumulating them from running content for other needed resources. Can't build a warehouse until we progress much further. I know we're meant to progress the SH by running content, but it's currently possible to run content endlessly and still seemingly get nowhere because you get too much of one thing and not enough of another. I'd also add that trading Shards for Influence could be enormously helpful too. It wouldn't discourage us from playing the game, because all the resources still have to come from playing something, and would be most efficiently earned from their "native" source. But it would make us feel better about everything we do being useful and less locked into particular activities at particular stages regardless of what we actually feel like doing.
Thank you so much for looking at these issues. Means a lot.
Feedback What Becky says is true.
Feedback: Other Stumbling Blocks:
We are a small Guild and the Wood, Metal, Stone and Food coffers, as well as the Gold and sometimes AD are filled up a few days after a build stay at Maximum for weeks and months while the Campaign Currencies - Fey, Frozen, Tyranny & Dark Gifts, as well as Dungeoneering/Conquerors shards and Influence build up slowly to finish a build.
I propose Raising the coffer limits to Gold, Food, Wood, Stone, Metal and AD so that they won’t be idle for weeks at a time . After all, the standard cost for a stronghold is 1 MILLION Gold. Start with NY Guild should be able to build any GH upgrade in 1 month. Each smaller structure should take 2 weeks, regardless of the Guild size. Figure 15-25% active – 1 player in a 5 player Guild, 30 in a 150+ player Guild with 1 alt per active player should be able to do this. As for Wood, Stone, Metal and Food – leave them as they are, but expand the coffer capacity to 50 times the standard daily tend rate to cut down on idle time. As for Gold, figure 2 Gold/ day/active player & alt for 20% of the Guild’s players as coffer capacity (a good player can get 10 Gold/day at level 60, Poor Players have trouble getting 1 Gold/Day over and above costs.) For AD, 1-3 casks/day/character and 0-1 AD/day/character for those who are levelling their characters. The Underdark AD Voucher and the new Professions tasks should help too.
On a Good day 1 player doing 4 Quests (one of which is Rewards for the Hoard) could do 2500 points of donations, but the daily 3 Quest donation is less than 1000 points – a long way from the almost 2 Million needed for Rank 20 Stronghold. And would take a month to finish just 1 coffer if 50 characters contributed daily.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but you are forgetting that most of the smaller guild members don't have maxed out boons.
Meaning you are lucky if a 5 player guild can contribute 1/5th of their daily acquisition.
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
I guess I didn't explain it well enough. I was asking for 2% of output - 10% of 20% of the Guild (the active players + 1alt/player). A 5 player Guild would have 2 characters giving 10% of (and usually more because the active players are the generous ones) A 60 player Guild would have about 25 active characters, a 150 player Guild would have about 60 active characters and a 500 member (grandfathered in) Guild could have 200 active characters.
As to maxed out boons - First you need Guild Rank 20, then you need 1-6 Rank 10 Boon structures (2 PvP, 4 PvE). That's gonna take a while.
As to maxed out boons - First you need Guild Rank 20, then you need 1-6 Rank 10 Boon structures (2 PvP, 4 PvE). That's gonna take a while.
He means that many players in smaller guilds don't have their personal campaign boons, and as such can't reasonably be expected to put in campaign currencies.
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Great to get the response from @rgutscheradev but I have one question. If a guild has reached maximum (all possible structures built and at max level), and the coffers are full - how are members supposed to earn guild marks if they cannot donate anything ?
Great to get the response from @rgutscheradev but I have one question. If a guild has reached maximum (all possible structures built and at max level), and the coffers are full - how are members supposed to earn guild marks if they cannot donate anything ?
Am I missing something somewhere ?
This is not a problem for any guild yet, but someday it will be. We've been thinking about it and have some plans in the works.
Did anyone check how many points you get for donating the dragon stuff? Dragon Gem, Dragon Bone and the Steel?
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Steel was 250. Character copying was down when I fiddled with it, so I couldn't check the other items (educated guess is they'll be the same though). IIRC, a single WoD fang is 125, so it's not a fabulous return.
On that note: Feedback - one more campaign currency addition Please make it possible to donate Shards of Dragon-Forged Steel. I have 1-4 of these on multiple characters I was playing pre-EE and they are useless. I think 1000 Treasures of Tyranny each would be about in line with the value of the materials, and at least let us get rid of the sad remnants of so many failed attempts.
Bugs the weaponsmithing tasks to create coffers all require 20 blades and 20 hafts, however, the craft blades and hafts tasks all reward 2x as many blades as they do hafts. The coffer requirements means that you end up having a huge surplus of blades (with nowhere else in the game to use them) and always need more hafts. The hafts requirement on the coffer tasks needs to be 10 hafts to fall in line with the crafting blades and hafts tasks (other professions like mailsmithing respect this relationship between the number of resources needed for a coffer and the amount of resources made per task).
the lv 4 and lv 10 jewelcrafting coffer tasks are missing the leather strips component of the coffer task
Feedback (given assuming lv 23 coffer tasks for all professions and a 50% speed boost asset) weaponsmithing and artificing are both weapon making professions but they are not equal in the time it takes to produce a coffer. Artificing takes 495 minutes to produce enough items for 1 coffer task where as weaponsmithing takes only 320 minutes. Note here. Weaponsmithing would take 320 minutes if it was fixed to respect the relationship between resources needed for a coffer and the amount of resources made per task as outlined in the above bug report. If weaponsmithing continues to stay bugged like this then weaponsmithing would take 480 minutes and the 2 professions would be more or less equal. Another contributing factor to the differences in completion times between these 2 professions is that the completion times for the lv 21 gather/refine task in artificing are different. gather is 30 minutes long and refine is 20 minutes. weaponsmithing has both tasks at 25 minutes. Ok, the more i look at this the more i think that you accounted for all this and balanced the task times accordingly. However, we are still left with a large surplus of blades in the end and nowhere to use them. It be nice if they were just equal task times so that this crazy balancing you had to was not necessary. It also looks bad to a player who is just looking at this casually, they are likely to perceive that things are not balanced and avoid one profession in favor of another.
if artificing and weaponsmithing are indeed balanced with each other then that leads into this point. Artificing and weaponsmithing take longer to finish and get coffers from than mail/platesmithing and tailoring and leatherworking. Or is there some hidden balance here as well that i missed?
leatherworking though costs 2x as many green resources in the refining task as mailsmithing, tailoring and platesmithing (leather takes 4 each while the others only cost 2 each).
Post edited by scathias on
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
The work for this module has pretty much wrapped up (we're doing the last bug fixes, but mostly we are working on new stuff now), and I wanted to tell everyone about what I was and wasn't able to do.
There were lots of good suggestions, and no way I could do all of them for this release, but I tried to grab all the low-hanging fruit I could, and I tried to push other good suggestions onto the list for the future.
The influence problems were the one thing that I was most sad we didn't have time to tackle this go-around. I talked about this before, but there is some good news -- people are aware it's an issue, and there are several things in the works for later that should help (including at least one thing that will, I hope, help a lot). But none of that will be ready this release, alas.
I really liked lazaroth666's Sharandar analysis. Ultimately, I don't think this is a Stronghold issue, but an issue with our overall campaign rewards (drops, chests, currency shops, campaign tree, everything). Our reducing Stronghold Fey costs by ~30% is helpful, sure, but we really need to address the campaign rewards as a group. That's something we're looking at, but again, it will take longer to get it right. But I sent on lazaroth666's analysis to the people looking at campaign rewards, and it generated some good discussion. I hope good things will come from it.
There were some simple things I could do for this upcoming release: * Dragon-Forged Steel can now be donated to coffers * The leadership task is now fixed (no longer gives unreachable high-quality results) * Gold and gems tasks improved (as I described in my previous post) * Crafting vouchers now account-bound instead of character-bound * Two more jewelry tasks added
One thing I didn't change: some tasks (like the low-level Jewelcrafting ones) use resources "asymmetrically", in the sense you don't use things in exactly the proportion that they are gathered. I know this is a bit awkward for these tasks, but I think it's better for crafting as a whole. If different tasks use things in different proportions, you can see what you have, see what's available, and make some decisions. I realize crafting as a whole is not there yet -- it's too often that you always need more X, and you never need more Y -- but we can't get there unless we make varied tasks with varied inputs. I realize these Stronghold tasks are just a very small part of a very large puzzle, though, and they can't fix these kinds of issues all by themselves. (I hope someday we can invest some more design time in working on the crafting puzzle as a whole.)
Thanks again for all the great suggestions and feedback!
--Robert Gutschera
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Robert, thanks very much for the efforts and the update. Even those last few changes are good QoL things.
I agree that there are things to be addressed with campaign rewards (some of which are being done in this module), and while I have a lot of feedback about that too, I was holding it for a more appropriate thread.
As for the Influence, I am at least glad to know nothing is changing immediately (except maybe added the Siege PvP reward... eep), and I hope that this is a priority for the next things your team is working on.
Black Ice domination does complete the quest Fight to the Finish which rewards 10 conqueror shards, and mod 9 has a campaign task that rewards 10 conqueror shards as well. It is pretty slow going to collect them on the whole i agree, since PvP is not a guaranteed reward when you participate
edit - i just learned that the conq shard task in the new campaign is probably going to take 5 days to complete, so like 2 shards per day. So it might not be a decent source of those shards
Post edited by scathias on
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
My guild has one guy who PvPs when he plays (infrequent because busy student) and me doing BID whenever it comes up, but we've had enough people throwing in shard packs that we almost have to build a Barracks when we can, just to clear the Conqueror coffer out.
I just don't see it as anything insurmountable if you *really* want it and *refuse* to PvP.
And if you're convinced you can't progress without building a PvP structure which requires Glory as well... you are doing it wrong. The guild hall is a structure.
The work for this module has pretty much wrapped up (we're doing the last bug fixes, but mostly we are working on new stuff now), and I wanted to tell everyone about what I was and wasn't able to do.
There were lots of good suggestions, and no way I could do all of them for this release, but I tried to grab all the low-hanging fruit I could, and I tried to push other good suggestions onto the list for the future.
The influence problems were the one thing that I was most sad we didn't have time to tackle this go-around. I talked about this before, but there is some good news -- people are aware it's an issue, and there are several things in the works for later that should help (including at least one thing that will, I hope, help a lot). But none of that will be ready this release, alas.
I really liked lazaroth666's Sharandar analysis. Ultimately, I don't think this is a Stronghold issue, but an issue with our overall campaign rewards (drops, chests, currency shops, campaign tree, everything). Our reducing Stronghold Fey costs by ~30% is helpful, sure, but we really need to address the campaign rewards as a group. That's something we're looking at, but again, it will take longer to get it right. But I sent on lazaroth666's analysis to the people looking at campaign rewards, and it generated some good discussion. I hope good things will come from it.
There were some simple things I could do for this upcoming release: * Dragon-Forged Steel can now be donated to coffers * The leadership task is now fixed (no longer gives unreachable high-quality results) * Gold and gems tasks improved (as I described in my previous post) * Crafting vouchers now account-bound instead of character-bound * Two more jewelry tasks added
One thing I didn't change: some tasks (like the low-level Jewelcrafting ones) use resources "asymmetrically", in the sense you don't use things in exactly the proportion that they are gathered. I know this is a bit awkward for these tasks, but I think it's better for crafting as a whole. If different tasks use things in different proportions, you can see what you have, see what's available, and make some decisions. I realize crafting as a whole is not there yet -- it's too often that you always need more X, and you never need more Y -- but we can't get there unless we make varied tasks with varied inputs. I realize these Stronghold tasks are just a very small part of a very large puzzle, though, and they can't fix these kinds of issues all by themselves. (I hope someday we can invest some more design time in working on the crafting puzzle as a whole.)
Thanks again for all the great suggestions and feedback!
--Robert Gutschera
Any idea how long will we have to wait for influence costs reductions?can we hope for them in first few weeks or we will have to wait till new mod in summer? if we do not get some changes in influence system in first few weeks this whole stronghold costs rebalancing system will be pointless since we will all be stuck on upgrades because of influence
Post edited by warpet on
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Any idea how long will we have to wait for influence costs reductions?can we hope for then in first few weeks or we will have to wait till new mod in summer? if we do not get some changes in influence system in first few weeks this whole stronghold costs rebalancing system will be pointless since we will all be stuck on upgrades because of influence
This is true. While the various cost reductions will help a lot, I'm looking at maybe two months of HE influence grind for the next SH upgrade, if that grind is managed to the extent that nobody burns out. And one reason people are kind of off doing Influence is they can't deposit adventurer/heroic shards, because the coffer is jammed.
Then about that long again for a first boon structure.
(This gain *might* be improved by SH Siege's new rewards, but only assuming that enough people will run SH Siege *and* that I am occasionally on a winning side.)
Comments
(Edit: In a nutshell, why people don't spend more time in Foundry quests.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Influence and AD is what has been worrying me the most as a guild leader of a medium (now) sized guild. Influence is really like going to work again instead of having some fun/relax when you come home. I'm not pushing too much on Influence on newest member cause i don't want them to reach the burn-out , i and other few, felt doing it every day with multiple chars (10+ myself) only cause the requirement are insane. Actually i can't do it more than twice a day, it really makes me sick.
I think that only one task available at time for Leadership coffer generation is not good; remove that cap and give us the possibility to do 3 tasks at time.
Matt Shieldheart 3.5k GF Conq PVE _ Matt Shieldheart 0 3.5k GF Tactician PVE _ Matt Shieldheart II 4.1k Buffer DC _ Matt Shieldheart III 4.3k Thauma CW _ Matt Shieldheart IV 3.5k Exe TR _ Matt Shieldheart V 3.9k Destroyer GWF _ Matt Shieldheart VI 3.1k Trapper HR _ Matt Shieldheart VII 3.1k Fury SW _ Matt ShieldheartVIII 3.6k OP Justice _ Matt Shieldheart -8 3.1k Healadin _ Matt Shieldheart -9 3.1k Mof Rene CW
Hi im a member of a rank 18 guild. In my experience the real bottleneck in progressing with stronghold were
1) Astral diamonds
2) Surplus items
Farming currencies was annoying as hell too and influence was easy farmable with a bit of sacrifice. i say this because the ads and surplus requirements are extremely high and surplus items are indeed the first way to farm ads. Its like a dog trying to bite its own tail.
It would be nice to have pvp gear as not salvageable gear (so pretty much 0 chance to exploit or to bot it) but able to drop from common pvp matches as reward.
it would really help feeding the mimic and give updated reasons to run domination.
Feedback: Other Stumbling Blocks:
We are a small Guild and the Wood, Metal, Stone and Food coffers, as well as the Gold and sometimes AD are filled up a few days after a build stay at Maximum for weeks and months while the Campaign Currencies - Fey, Frozen, Tyranny & Dark Gifts, as well as Dungeoneering/Conquerors shards and Influence build up slowly to finish a build.
I propose Raising the coffer limits to Gold, Food, Wood, Stone, Metal and AD so that they won’t be idle for weeks at a time . After all, the standard cost for a stronghold is 1 MILLION Gold. Start with NY Guild should be able to build any GH upgrade in 1 month. Each smaller structure should take 2 weeks, regardless of the Guild size. Figure 15-25% active – 1 player in a 5 player Guild, 30 in a 150+ player Guild with 1 alt per active player should be able to do this.
As for Wood, Stone, Metal and Food – leave them as they are, but expand the coffer capacity to 50 times the standard daily tend rate to cut down on idle time. As for Gold, figure 2 Gold/ day/active player & alt for 20% of the Guild’s players as coffer capacity (a good player can get 10 Gold/day at level 60, Poor Players have trouble getting 1 Gold/Day over and above costs.) For AD, 1-3 casks/day/character and 0-1 AD/day/character for those who are levelling their characters. The Underdark AD Voucher and the new Professions tasks should help too.
On a Good day 1 player doing 4 Quests (one of which is Rewards for the Hoard) could do 2500 points of donations, but the daily 3 Quest donation is less than 1000 points – a long way from the almost 2 Million needed for Rank 20 Stronghold. And would take a month to finish just 1 coffer if 50 characters contributed daily.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but you are forgetting that most of the smaller guild members don't have maxed out boons.
Meaning you are lucky if a 5 player guild can contribute 1/5th of their daily acquisition.
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
As to maxed out boons - First you need Guild Rank 20, then you need 1-6 Rank 10 Boon structures (2 PvP, 4 PvE). That's gonna take a while.
The title says it all.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Am I missing something somewhere ?
On that note:
Feedback - one more campaign currency addition
Please make it possible to donate Shards of Dragon-Forged Steel. I have 1-4 of these on multiple characters I was playing pre-EE and they are useless. I think 1000 Treasures of Tyranny each would be about in line with the value of the materials, and at least let us get rid of the sad remnants of so many failed attempts.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
the weaponsmithing tasks to create coffers all require 20 blades and 20 hafts, however, the craft blades and hafts tasks all reward 2x as many blades as they do hafts. The coffer requirements means that you end up having a huge surplus of blades (with nowhere else in the game to use them) and always need more hafts. The hafts requirement on the coffer tasks needs to be 10 hafts to fall in line with the crafting blades and hafts tasks (other professions like mailsmithing respect this relationship between the number of resources needed for a coffer and the amount of resources made per task).
the lv 4 and lv 10 jewelcrafting coffer tasks are missing the leather strips component of the coffer task
Feedback (given assuming lv 23 coffer tasks for all professions and a 50% speed boost asset)
weaponsmithing and artificing are both weapon making professions but they are not equal in the time it takes to produce a coffer. Artificing takes 495 minutes to produce enough items for 1 coffer task where as weaponsmithing takes only 320 minutes. Note here. Weaponsmithing would take 320 minutes if it was fixed to respect the relationship between resources needed for a coffer and the amount of resources made per task as outlined in the above bug report. If weaponsmithing continues to stay bugged like this then weaponsmithing would take 480 minutes and the 2 professions would be more or less equal.
Another contributing factor to the differences in completion times between these 2 professions is that the completion times for the lv 21 gather/refine task in artificing are different. gather is 30 minutes long and refine is 20 minutes. weaponsmithing has both tasks at 25 minutes.
Ok, the more i look at this the more i think that you accounted for all this and balanced the task times accordingly. However, we are still left with a large surplus of blades in the end and nowhere to use them. It be nice if they were just equal task times so that this crazy balancing you had to was not necessary. It also looks bad to a player who is just looking at this casually, they are likely to perceive that things are not balanced and avoid one profession in favor of another.
if artificing and weaponsmithing are indeed balanced with each other then that leads into this point. Artificing and weaponsmithing take longer to finish and get coffers from than mail/platesmithing and tailoring and leatherworking. Or is there some hidden balance here as well that i missed?
leatherworking though costs 2x as many green resources in the refining task as mailsmithing, tailoring and platesmithing (leather takes 4 each while the others only cost 2 each).
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
The work for this module has pretty much wrapped up (we're doing the last bug fixes, but mostly we are working on new stuff now), and I wanted to tell everyone about what I was and wasn't able to do.
There were lots of good suggestions, and no way I could do all of them for this release, but I tried to grab all the low-hanging fruit I could, and I tried to push other good suggestions onto the list for the future.
The influence problems were the one thing that I was most sad we didn't have time to tackle this go-around. I talked about this before, but there is some good news -- people are aware it's an issue, and there are several things in the works for later that should help (including at least one thing that will, I hope, help a lot). But none of that will be ready this release, alas.
I really liked lazaroth666's Sharandar analysis. Ultimately, I don't think this is a Stronghold issue, but an issue with our overall campaign rewards (drops, chests, currency shops, campaign tree, everything). Our reducing Stronghold Fey costs by ~30% is helpful, sure, but we really need to address the campaign rewards as a group. That's something we're looking at, but again, it will take longer to get it right. But I sent on lazaroth666's analysis to the people looking at campaign rewards, and it generated some good discussion. I hope good things will come from it.
There were some simple things I could do for this upcoming release:
* Dragon-Forged Steel can now be donated to coffers
* The leadership task is now fixed (no longer gives unreachable high-quality results)
* Gold and gems tasks improved (as I described in my previous post)
* Crafting vouchers now account-bound instead of character-bound
* Two more jewelry tasks added
One thing I didn't change: some tasks (like the low-level Jewelcrafting ones) use resources "asymmetrically", in the sense you don't use things in exactly the proportion that they are gathered. I know this is a bit awkward for these tasks, but I think it's better for crafting as a whole. If different tasks use things in different proportions, you can see what you have, see what's available, and make some decisions. I realize crafting as a whole is not there yet -- it's too often that you always need more X, and you never need more Y -- but we can't get there unless we make varied tasks with varied inputs. I realize these Stronghold tasks are just a very small part of a very large puzzle, though, and they can't fix these kinds of issues all by themselves. (I hope someday we can invest some more design time in working on the crafting puzzle as a whole.)
Thanks again for all the great suggestions and feedback!
--Robert Gutschera
I agree that there are things to be addressed with campaign rewards (some of which are being done in this module), and while I have a lot of feedback about that too, I was holding it for a more appropriate thread.
As for the Influence, I am at least glad to know nothing is changing immediately (except maybe added the Siege PvP reward... eep), and I hope that this is a priority for the next things your team is working on.
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edit - i just learned that the conq shard task in the new campaign is probably going to take 5 days to complete, so like 2 shards per day. So it might not be a decent source of those shards
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
I just don't see it as anything insurmountable if you *really* want it and *refuse* to PvP.
And if you're convinced you can't progress without building a PvP structure which requires Glory as well... you are doing it wrong. The guild hall is a structure.
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Then about that long again for a first boon structure.
(This gain *might* be improved by SH Siege's new rewards, but only assuming that enough people will run SH Siege *and* that I am occasionally on a winning side.)
Neverwinter Census 2017
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