Feedback: Too late that we all feel our time wasted for absolutely nothing. You just made the decision to decrease the resources needed, Why didn't you do it before? Before we farmed influence more then 3 chars a day, doing sharandar again and again for fey, spending our money on bells and doing multi dragonflights for hours? Now you just decrease the resources, that our efforts mean nothing?
Feedback: Too late that we all feel our time wasted for absolutely nothing. You just made the decision to decrease the resources needed, Why didn't you do it before? Before we farmed influence more then 3 chars a day, doing sharandar again and again for fey, spending our money on bells and doing multi dragonflights for hours? Now you just decrease the resources, that our efforts mean nothing?
There is always a premium cost to be the first in anything. You want to be the first on your block with the newest electronic gadget. You will pay more for it then the people who are willing to wait a few months.
Oh my.... Devs you really screwed us super bad. </3 With our very well organized, incredibly active and helpful guild, we are about to achieve GH20. This should be a time for us to celebrate but game changing news like this makes our members gutted. We would've happily waited a bit longer to get there. smh #gonnablowupsharandar
- Major Peachy Bottom * Gutbuster's Brigade -
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
Feedback: new Leadership quests: unable to reach Tier 3 results There don't appear to be many/any ways for most people to achieve the Tier 3 result, since stacking white leadership assets won't get you there. While there are green "Basic" versions of Leadership assets here and there on the AH (well, not any more since I just bought them all up), it's not clear how anyone can benefit from the higher tiers. There also don't appear to be any ways to upgrade leadership assets since there are no tasks to do so.
As the leader of a very small guild, these changes are welcome. Are they enough? I don't yet know. Farming influence is killing us. I'm so glad, though, that since AD was removed from leadership I've been steadily pushing professions up on all of my alts.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
0
instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
Y'know.. it's not like smaller guilds didn't bust their butts and work and organize and grind grind grind to get to where we're at.
Besides... we don't PvP. Why does it matter to anyone when we get our boons? It doesn't. Well, it shouldn't.
Y'know.. it's not like smaller guilds didn't bust their butts and work and organize and grind grind grind to get to where we're at.
Besides... we don't PvP. Why does it matter to anyone when we get our boons? It doesn't. Well, it shouldn't.
Or spend **literally** dollars in the thousands buying Zen, which we immediately sell for AD, which we then immediately had to spend to buy up all those purple vouchers on the AH. It was either that or have our progress be a tiny fraction of what it was, and not be able to retain **any** members as they would leave for faster-moving guilds. As it is, roughly 80% of our small active membership has been entirely burned out on the game by the grind to date. I could count our remaining active members on one hand.
Unlike others, I'm not asking for any kind of restitution for what we went through before. To me, the idea is patently absurd. You work with the hand you're dealt, and if conditions change, then they change. That's life. What I would like to see is a bit more willingness on the part of the devs to take player feedback to heart. When some of us say, "don't do this (or don't do it this way), because it's a huge ****ing mistake," it's just possible that we might actually be right.
These changes are extremely welcome, despite what I had to spend to get to this point. At first glance I didn't see a profession task for influence (which is indeed killing us), but I might have missed one.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I agree that lowering SH costs sux. And i don't speak only about all those players who invested in guild improvements their time and money, i am also speaking about those guild who improving slowly. let's say they will gain max level of guild after week of changes. and then what? boring grind in 2.5 epik dungeons? the whole fun of SH when all guild members working together on pushing their guild forward, but when goal achieved and nothing more to do, who will run dragon flights or gather influence? all those maps with encounters and resources was made for nothing?
Gutbusters Brigade will be first in what is to date the most difficult grind in this game. Through loyalty, pride, dedication and a massive amount of grind our membership stepped up to the plate and knocked it right out of the ballpark. Thats good enough for me.
Even with these changes 90% or more guilds will still never make it to level 20. No change to influence? Seriously? If you dont reduce the cost of or increase the amount of influence that can be farmed per day nothing has changed.
0
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
I am in a "typical" guild, I guess - large enough to take down all four dragons on weekends, but only at GH 10, so we still have quite a bit to go. I welcome the cost reductions - yes, I can understand the frustration of people in the largest and most active guilds who are at GH 20 and feel like they have lost something, but well... it's like buying something, and then see it go on sale for a 50% discount a while later.
At least they got to enjoy being among the first to reach this.
The biggest bottleneck for the smaller guilds may however be the Influence needed, and I don't see that changing.
However...
The new crafting tasks are pretty much pointless - in particular the alchemy task to make gold. Just look at the cost of the materials on the AH - no sane person will ever do this task, unless you SIGNIFICANTLY increase the amount of gold produced.
lol I know folks who have blown about 100mill AD or more on their stronghold already, so imagine how those folks feel
1. The rewards given in these profession tasks are not even close to being worth doing.. with maybe a couple exceptions.. 2. Those guilds that spent all that money on being first or whatever... they got ACTUAL USE for a longer period of time when what you got from leveling your SH mattered... unlike now (Mod 8) and more so in Mod 9... the complaint should be more that SH's are pointless... except for the Boons you get.
3. Count rewards, use 6 HOURS to make 25 surplus points or use same time for some other task? 4. 9x slot open, 6 HOURS per task 25 surplus per task = HOW MANY POINTS PER 24H?!!! (900 surplus points)
I wondering if I count it right, but is ONE "Purple" -item 810 surplus or is so that RP -task´s gives much more return... IDK.
Anyway, Direction is nice and "Stable Mount" -system is nice looking.
Would be nice if there were more reductions across the board or alternatively less gates to gain stuff. Like: Remove 400 influence limit, remove cleric quests and instead give dungeon shards for all and every dungeon run. Personally I'd also like a method of exchanging gold to purchase stronghold resources. Like influence. Because rich people are influential. :P
We have run into a problem with upgrading our structures at the moment now that this information is available on preview. As we know that these changes are coming soon, it's not really a good idea to continue upgrading our stronghold until they are live (it's a big waste of resources). It is leaving guilds in a difficult situation whereby upgrading is essentially on hold on the live servers. We really need to know some sort of time frame for these changes happening in order to make decisions and let our guild members know what to do.
I also think something really needs to be done about Conqueror Shards of Power. Unless you are a PvP focused guild, it's very difficult to get the necessary shards for Barracks and a really huge amount is needed for each upgrade. It's not a PvP structure, so I don't think the requirements for these shards is fair.
3. Count rewards, use 6 HOURS to make 25 surplus points or use same time for some other task? 4. 9x slot open, 6 HOURS per task 25 surplus per task = HOW MANY POINTS PER 24H?!!! (900 surplus points)
I wondering if I count it right, but is ONE "Purple" -item 810 surplus or is so that RP -task´s gives much more return... IDK. .
I want to point out that you can only do 1 of a given task, and you can get 4-6 crates: so in Mailsmithing you can do at the same time Adamantine Scales for 100-150 Equipment points, Mithral Scales for 60-90 points, Steel Scales for 40-60 points and Iron Scales for 20-30 points.
It's probably not worth running the lowest task, but it might be worth running the top two -- so you can use the other 7 professions slots for Leadership RP or whatever you would normally do. If you run the top two tasks 5 times a day (using epic tools and epic workers), you could get up to 1200 points a day with the two slots -- worth 1.5 epic equipment donations.
Again, for those who run eToS 5 times a day, this will not make a big difference for equipment donations, but every bit helps -- and not everyone is capable of running the T2 dungeons daily. Personally, I will run the tasks when I have the mats for them, but probably not grind the resources specifically for these tasks.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
T4 crafting materials sometimes sell for gobs of AD. Not as much now as when people were trying to kick off Masterwork, but can still be a fair bit. You want to watch that.
Great changes. The cost reduction has been something that many many people have been asking. I could make a poll but we all know the answer.
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
0
soullesslordsMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 54Arc User
I like the idea of the reduction in requirements we are struggling hard to make a dent in things even though we just got to 113 members not every member donates every day we have a very small few that do and I;m sure its the same with other guilds and yes influence needs to be included also surplus equipment vouchers need to be added to the boxes.
Another change that needs to be fixed is the wait time to upgrade we ground months to make the upgrade why make us wait days to get it that's just stupid we earned it don't make us wait.
also I would like to have a ZEN stronghold instant upgrade we have sharandar and dreadring along with icewind dale why not stronghold upgrades I would pay $200.00 for an instant level 20 upgrade with ALL boon structures or be able to add instant additional boon structures for a nominal price or instant upgrades for for zen.
On one hand, the reduction is a good thing. Cuz the prices are ridiculous the more you upgrade it. Especially with the 150 limit guild members. But on other hand, we spent hours farming like crazy to get to 20. And farming sharandar, influence etc cant be called a fun gameplay. Not to mention all the ad we threw into that damned coffer. When we could easy upgrade our enchants. Im not claiming refund, but devs shall compensate some guilds for spending their real time to upgrade that damned gh to 20 or close to it. After all in first place its your fault as developers with the crazy prices, and you have to solve it somehow.
Feedback: Increase profession tasks so that you can have 3 of the same one going at once, in line with other profession tasks
for the lower level tasks, please add EXP for that profession. For those with 25 rank yet it can help them level it
Leadership task has 4 slots with tier 3 possible. However there are no epic item for leadership that increase quality...
Please make Leadership boxes account wide, thank you...
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I for one was always against SH period, what if the guildleader kicks everyone out of the guild and sells it.
While this would be hurting the leader him/herself atm, this could be a problem, when more and more guilds become R 20. You dont need a big guild to maintain a BIS Stronghold, you are done. Many guilds lowered their requirements, to get more players for the stronghold grind. In a few month, they wont need them anymore.
Sorry to take so long to get back to you -- things have been a bit hectic for me here. (I just finished a design pitch for something for the *next* module, which is what's been keeping me busy. But the pitch doc is done now. Whew.)
Lots of great feedback, so thanks to everyone for that. Special thanks to beckylunatic, super-detailed and well-thought-out feedback as always.
The viability of some of the profession tasks (gold in particular) is a really good point. It's kind of an interesting situation design-wise, so let me go into it more (skip this paragraph if you don't care how the sausage is made). When we cost these things, there are two pretty different approaches. What I used here was a look at how quickly people earned various things (in this case gold) by playing "normally" -- running around, killing stuff, selling the junk you get. With that math, the amount of gold you get is (more or less -- no claims made for super-accuracy here!) reasonable compared to the other profession tasks, in terms of number of hours of gameplay. But of course as several people have pointed out, there's another way to earn gold -- go on the auction house and buy things like chalices. And that way is *much* more efficient (because mostly people don't have a lot of use for gold, so it sells for cheap in the currency people really care about, namely AD). But we have to be careful on our end -- buying stuff on the auction house will pretty much always be more efficient, because it represents people getting rid of stuff they don't want, or because of botting, or just plain people doing something in the most efficient way possible (the wonders of a market economy -- mostly a good thing!). If we always go after the auction house price, we can wind up chasing our own tail (sending some part of the economy spinning out of control as it gets successively more, or less, expensive). All that said, it's silly to have the two prices be so far out of line. If the gold task isn't the greatest, that's OK, but I think it's too sad right now, so I plan to raise it. Similarly for the gems task.
TL;DR: Raising value of gold and gems tasks. They may not be super-great, but they'll be better. My current plan is x5 for gold and x2 for gems (not a promise, just the current plan).
Good catch on Leadership tiering. That's just a flat-out mistake on my part.
There's been lots of discussion about how it's discouraging to work super-hard and then have the price go down. I understand the pain, I can feel it, but I gotta warn you -- sometimes that kind of thing will happen. In MMOs, there are super-dedicated people who play a ton, and there are people who are more casual. Like any MMO, we want to reward the dedicated people but let the casual people have fun too. One classic way to do that is make something hard or expensive at first, but then gradually make it easier over time. The elite will get there first. But over time, more people will get there. On balance, I think that's a good thing. Also, if we just plain made something too expensive, we should fix that!
Influence: this is definitely something we've been looking at. When we did this whole costing pass, we looked at all the coffers to see which ones were the biggest problem. Influence was not the biggest problem according to our data, but it was definitely one of the tougher ones, and we'll keep watching it. Some things that made us willing to wait and see how it goes were that it's not like AD or gems where you really want to keep it for yourself (the only thing to do with it is give it to the coffer) and it's also very farmable -- if your guild sees it needs influence, it can decide to go out and get more. But if it's an endless and frustrating grind to get more, that's no good, so we need to watch that. The feedback here definitely is making me more suspicious of our influence costs, and I've been conveying that to others on the team.
Again, thanks for all the feedback! It's been a really big help.
The Ranger give us a quest for 3 SH-HE, but we should do 5 SH-HE for reach the HE-cap.
1) Let US reach the HE-Cap with 3 SH-HE only. ( 200/100/100 instead of 150/120/75/35/20 ) -> More easy to do with 2 or + characters, no waste of time for peanuts.
2) Move the Boons Structures NPCs in the SH Hall, it take few minutes to go at each NPC, and for a lot of players, it's too much for such a poor influence reward before the tier 4 Quests.
3) Demonic SH-HE are SH-HE yes or not ? But no Influence reward from them -> no interest to do them ( we have to do 9 DHE each day, we will not doing more without real rewards ).
4) Add a Minor (+100) ( or Basic (+200)) Influence Voucher as a systematic reward for Dragonflight Event.
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
Feedback: SH content becomes very repetitive and grinding some resources is unrewarding/disappointing.
I'm guild leader of a Lv 15 Guild and I would like to give you our feedback. We usually have 20-40 players everyday, very cooperative with their donations and the daily grind. However, there are 3 main things that are not longer fun anymore: Influence, Fey Trinkets and Conqueror's Shards. Firstly, Influence, it is extremely boring to farm the same heroic encounters every day. We have been doing the same thing not only with 1 character but several. We try to farm the HE for 15+ players in order to change the monotony but it's still the same. We want to feel like we are doing certain activities that generates resources that we will be able to contribute to the guild and not like we are supposed to work (like a job) for our guild running the same tedious routine of farming HE again and again.
Farming Sharandar is annoying because it doesn't feel rewarding to spend a lot of time doing daily quests just to deliver a small amount of resources to the mimic. I'll give you an example: If we want to farm Tyranny we can do Dragon Runs in Well of Dragons or Tiamat, that means that we are also receiving AD after selling some items while doing stuff together as a guild. Same thing in Dread Ring, we are doing the daily lairs and receiving greater marks that we need for our characters or we can also sell them. As you can see, both areas are rewarding and doesn't really feel like a pain at all because you are running content that will benefit your guild and yourself directly.
Regarding to the Conqueror's Shards, we are mainly a PvE guild and we really dislike the fact that if we want one of the best boon structures in the game (barracks) then it is necessary to do PvP. It is simply not right to throw PvE players to PvP when they are just looking for something that they only want to use in PvE. I can understand that you want to encourage the PvP environment by adding more players but I'm sure that most PvP players are looking for quality instead of quantity and I'm not going deeper in this issue, considering that there are a ton of reports written every day by these PvPers. Solving their issues would bring a better PvP life for the whole game and using baits like adding conqueror's shards only for PvP matches won't be necessary anymore. I've already noticed that the new campaign will let us get a few shards but I'm afraid that it will not be enough.
I would like to suggest the following:
* Influence: Let us get influence by doing Heroic Encounters in every map of the game, the amount can be halved so we get the same actual amount if we do it in our strongholds and less in other areas. We are adventurers after all, aren't we supposed to get influence by helping in other zones?. Also, adding Influence to the Dragonflight event, 50 or 100 per dragon killed up to a certain daily limit.
* Sharandar: You could add RP like resonance stones, peridots, aquamarines, etc (not just thaumaturge, this isn't interesting) and a small chance to get a Preservation Ward BoA. Additionally, include in the loot for every lair his respective campaign resource, i.e: If I'm doing Witch Fen then I'll get more Abjuring Charms. In summary, running Sharandar and the lairs will be more interesting because I'll get a direct benefit plus resources for my guild. Getting additional resources won't have a major impact in the campaign because it's gated behind Feywild Sparks.
One more thing, could you please take a look to the Illerfarn Relic and/or the resources given by the Genie's Gift for Sharandar? The amount of resources is very, very low in comparison to the other campaigns and it doesn't make any sense to waste a Genie's Gift in Feywld Sparks or Gold Crescents.
* Conqueror's Shards: It would be great if there's a NPC that allow us to exchange one shard for another, maybe not a 1:1 ratio but that would solve a lot of problems for both PvE and PvP players considering that most of each position are not really interested in participating in both kind of content. PvE players that dislike to PvP will find another way to get Conqueror's and PvP players that don't want to do anything related to PvE will still be able to gather enough shards doing only what they really like to do. Are you guys tracking what are the players doing with their Fangs of the Dragonflight? After some months of killing dragons in the stronghold there's not really much to do with this item besides gearing up alts. Perhaps, you could add vouchers to the Marketplace that we can purchase with Fangs. Starting with Green Vouchers at Market Lv X, then Blue after Lv X and even Major Vouchers after certain Level with a cost of 20, 30, etc Fangs each.
As you can see, each one of these suggestions are based in playing the content that you have created for the players. It is a great idea to feel that almost everything I do in the game generate a contribution to my guild, not forced as an extremely boring grinding but as a way to play helping my guildies and myself at the same time.
I'd love to see other stuff give influence too. Not just HEs on the Stronghold map. Basically every quests could give some influence. In the end we are increasing the guild's influence in the world by helping folks. From a role-playing point of view that'd be nice. It'd also help avoid the boredom of running the same HEs over and over and over again.
It would also be great if every HE would give the same amount of influence. It's just not efficient to do more than three HEs. The ratio of influence to time played just gets to bad.
Feedback Thank you for looking at the gems and gold return values. I would like to echo what other people are saying in having some sort of system to trade shards. a 2:1 ratio or something similar of 2 shards you don't want for 1 shard that you do would go a long ways to helping small guilds that get quickly capped on 1 shard or another but have many thousands they need to grind for of a different shard.
Lazalia (lazaroth666) has some excellent points as well about making the grind more enjoyable or more rewarding. Sharandar really is a horrible place to farm right now. it does reward you with thaumaturgic stones but those are practically useless since stacks of R4 enchants are so abundantly available that no one who does a time/reward analysis would ever go farm thaum stones. they would farm DR for greater marks,sell the marks and get many hundreds of times the RP value by using that AD to buy r4s. I understand you do not wish to balance the game around what is available on the AH (and that is smart) but as it is the reward differences between sharandar and other zones is pretty intense.
And I would like to add a request as well to make the AD coffers from leadership Bind to Account. Right now they are BoP and that means if i would have to get all those alts into my guild one at a time to donate the coffers which is needlessly time consuming and annoying both for myself and my guild leaders whom i have to bother. Making the coffers BoA would solve this issue handily.
Having scaling rewards from dragonflight would also be an awesome thing to have. You can base the rewards off of dragons killed per event (which happens to some extent as to the number of vouchers you get, but i would like to see a visible quality increase as well... or at least know that one is in place) as well as (more importantly) the guild hall level. At some point dragons should stop rewarding green vouchers and only provide blue vouchers, and as the guild level increases from there the drop rate of purple vouchers should increase. Farming dragons at guild hall lv 16 is not nearly as rewarding as it is for a lv 5 guild since the rewards are exactly the same (anecdotal of course) but the costs to upgrade are leagues apart
thanks for your feedback you gave us rgutscheradev
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
some changes are needed in guild store as well mostly all items needs marks price reduction for example blue guild gear which is there to allow us to gear up alts but it costs to much credits and none buys it ,dragon flight gear costs way to much dragon fangs and credits,we get to small amount of credits for ad donations (20 ad for 1 credit would be more fair and realistic )so ppl might donate ad if want easy credits ,first dragonflight boss needs to drop some fangs instead of none ,dungens and skirmishes should always give something for guilds not only if u have daily,influnce daily cap needs to be removed
Post edited by warpet on
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Feedback on Influence costs
Lots of people chiming in on this, but I want to give some numbers.
My guild is of the very small variety. So, we're still at the stage of needing 126k Influence for the next thing (yes, that's the 4 -> 5 hall upgrade; small guilds, eh?). Divide that by 400 and you get 315 character days. Not a big deal if your guild is so large you're always at the limit, right? If 50 accounts run HEs on 2 characters each, you can be done in a little more than 3 days. Yay, that was easy! (Until you get to higher tiers and it just never stops and everyone is fed up and wants to vomit at the thought of doing another HE.)
Take into account that diminishing returns on Influence/HE make it really inefficient to get the full 400 daily. Getting 345 and stopping is sensible, or push it to 380 because that should get you to 100 enemies slain. That doesn't hurt the big guilds much, because they've got so many members that someone can do a bit more and it makes up for someone else doing a bit less, and all of it is no big deal. It has a snowball effect on slowing down the small ones even more, because every little bit of everything that you don't put in the coffer today adds up to more days of not getting anywhere.
Try doing this with fewer than 10 people. It's possible to push more alts through the SH HE gauntlet, but say it takes 15 minutes per character to do 3 of them. So say you run it with 5 characters. You just spent more than an hour doing an activity that gets you nothing but Influence and a handful of RP and maybe a few other things to cram into the coffer, and that's your gaming time for the day and you got 1725 Influence, no AD, no significant amounts of campaign currency or surplus equipment, and you didn't really get to do anything fun either. Your guildies don't even all have 5 characters, or not ones that can do the HEs, so the burden of Influence falls on even fewer human beings. Divide 315 character days by 15 characters and you get 21 days, if all 15 characters pull their full load each and every day. They probably won't, because people get sick of it and it's not fair to ask them to turn their hobby into a job. They'll just burn out. Burning out on the last guild hall upgrade is why we're only halfway to our next Influence requirement 3 or 4 months down the road, between that and the immediacy of needing this campaign currency and that one for each production structure upgrade that was also required. We can only do so much in a day. All of these activities take time.
At any rate, character days is a very important unit of measure for Influence costs. There's no other use for the item, and you can farm it within the daily limits, but getting it requires participating in a tedious activity that excludes all other in-game goals. It isn't just onerous for small guilds. Big guilds have suffered plenty of member burnout on this front too.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Back when Strongholds was fairly newly launched, they nerfed the boon structure missions that gave Influence to allow the HEs to give more, so that the Influence bottleneck wasn't even worse for lower rank guilds with no boon structures, but maintaining the daily cap not much higher than what you can get from HEs now.
I know it had the ultimate effect of making the structure missions feel like they weren't worth it at all. Considering the ever-increasing requirements for Influence by the time a guild actually gets access to them, and the fact that we really can't do everything every day because that way lies madness, I don't think it would hurt to restore their old value without removing anything from HEs. At the very least, it would provide some variety in how to obtain Influence. I still think that crafting it, and trading shards for it are all worth considering, because it's required for at least the next 3 things I want to build or upgrade, and with the current structure, this is a painful prospect.
You're trying to give us a fun game we want to keep playing, not kill us.
Comments
You just made the decision to decrease the resources needed, Why didn't you do it before?
Before we farmed influence more then 3 chars a day, doing sharandar again and again for fey, spending our money on bells and doing multi dragonflights for hours?
Now you just decrease the resources, that our efforts mean nothing?
"Last request - microtransactions for alllll old skins for zen/weapon appearance changes, 500 zen to make ur wep glow the color/enchant you want it... You will make more off that one item than any other zen item ever made." freshour
"beckylunatic" Gateway AH should have column headers to sort by buyout, bid, end time, quantity, etc. These disappeared iirc with the module launch. It's obnoxious.
There don't appear to be many/any ways for most people to achieve the Tier 3 result, since stacking white leadership assets won't get you there. While there are green "Basic" versions of Leadership assets here and there on the AH (well, not any more since I just bought them all up), it's not clear how anyone can benefit from the higher tiers. There also don't appear to be any ways to upgrade leadership assets since there are no tasks to do so.
As the leader of a very small guild, these changes are welcome. Are they enough? I don't yet know. Farming influence is killing us. I'm so glad, though, that since AD was removed from leadership I've been steadily pushing professions up on all of my alts.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Besides... we don't PvP. Why does it matter to anyone when we get our boons? It doesn't. Well, it shouldn't.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Unlike others, I'm not asking for any kind of restitution for what we went through before. To me, the idea is patently absurd. You work with the hand you're dealt, and if conditions change, then they change. That's life. What I would like to see is a bit more willingness on the part of the devs to take player feedback to heart. When some of us say, "don't do this (or don't do it this way), because it's a huge ****ing mistake," it's just possible that we might actually be right.
These changes are extremely welcome, despite what I had to spend to get to this point. At first glance I didn't see a profession task for influence (which is indeed killing us), but I might have missed one.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Even with these changes 90% or more guilds will still never make it to level 20. No change to influence? Seriously? If you dont reduce the cost of or increase the amount of influence that can be farmed per day nothing has changed.
At least they got to enjoy being among the first to reach this.
The biggest bottleneck for the smaller guilds may however be the Influence needed, and I don't see that changing.
However...
The new crafting tasks are pretty much pointless - in particular the alchemy task to make gold. Just look at the cost of the materials on the AH - no sane person will ever do this task, unless you SIGNIFICANTLY increase the amount of gold produced.
4. 9x slot open, 6 HOURS per task 25 surplus per task = HOW MANY POINTS PER 24H?!!! (900 surplus points)
I wondering if I count it right, but is ONE "Purple" -item 810 surplus or is so that RP -task´s gives much more return... IDK.
Anyway, Direction is nice and "Stable Mount" -system is nice looking.
Like: Remove 400 influence limit, remove cleric quests and instead give dungeon shards for all and every dungeon run.
Personally I'd also like a method of exchanging gold to purchase stronghold resources. Like influence. Because rich people are influential. :P
We have run into a problem with upgrading our structures at the moment now that this information is available on preview. As we know that these changes are coming soon, it's not really a good idea to continue upgrading our stronghold until they are live (it's a big waste of resources). It is leaving guilds in a difficult situation whereby upgrading is essentially on hold on the live servers. We really need to know some sort of time frame for these changes happening in order to make decisions and let our guild members know what to do.
I also think something really needs to be done about Conqueror Shards of Power. Unless you are a PvP focused guild, it's very difficult to get the necessary shards for Barracks and a really huge amount is needed for each upgrade. It's not a PvP structure, so I don't think the requirements for these shards is fair.
Guild Medieval *GH20*
We are always recruiting mature, family-friendly, helpful and courteous people
www.guildmedieval.com
It's probably not worth running the lowest task, but it might be worth running the top two -- so you can use the other 7 professions slots for Leadership RP or whatever you would normally do. If you run the top two tasks 5 times a day (using epic tools and epic workers), you could get up to 1200 points a day with the two slots -- worth 1.5 epic equipment donations.
Again, for those who run eToS 5 times a day, this will not make a big difference for equipment donations, but every bit helps -- and not everyone is capable of running the T2 dungeons daily. Personally, I will run the tasks when I have the mats for them, but probably not grind the resources specifically for these tasks.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Another change that needs to be fixed is the wait time to upgrade we ground months to make the upgrade why make us wait days to get it that's just stupid we earned it don't make us wait.
also I would like to have a ZEN stronghold instant upgrade we have sharandar and dreadring along with icewind dale why not stronghold upgrades I would pay $200.00 for an instant level 20 upgrade with ALL boon structures or be able to add instant additional boon structures for a nominal price or instant upgrades for for zen.
for the lower level tasks, please add EXP for that profession. For those with 25 rank yet it can help them level it
Leadership task has 4 slots with tier 3 possible. However there are no epic item for leadership that increase quality...
But on other hand, we spent hours farming like crazy to get to 20. And farming sharandar, influence etc cant be called a fun gameplay. Not to mention all the ad we threw into that damned coffer. When we could easy upgrade our enchants.
Im not claiming refund, but devs shall compensate some guilds for spending their real time to upgrade that damned gh to 20 or close to it. After all in first place its your fault as developers with the crazy prices, and you have to solve it somehow.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
Sorry to take so long to get back to you -- things have been a bit hectic for me here. (I just finished a design pitch for something for the *next* module, which is what's been keeping me busy. But the pitch doc is done now. Whew.)
Lots of great feedback, so thanks to everyone for that. Special thanks to beckylunatic, super-detailed and well-thought-out feedback as always.
The viability of some of the profession tasks (gold in particular) is a really good point. It's kind of an interesting situation design-wise, so let me go into it more (skip this paragraph if you don't care how the sausage is made). When we cost these things, there are two pretty different approaches. What I used here was a look at how quickly people earned various things (in this case gold) by playing "normally" -- running around, killing stuff, selling the junk you get. With that math, the amount of gold you get is (more or less -- no claims made for super-accuracy here!) reasonable compared to the other profession tasks, in terms of number of hours of gameplay. But of course as several people have pointed out, there's another way to earn gold -- go on the auction house and buy things like chalices. And that way is *much* more efficient (because mostly people don't have a lot of use for gold, so it sells for cheap in the currency people really care about, namely AD). But we have to be careful on our end -- buying stuff on the auction house will pretty much always be more efficient, because it represents people getting rid of stuff they don't want, or because of botting, or just plain people doing something in the most efficient way possible (the wonders of a market economy -- mostly a good thing!). If we always go after the auction house price, we can wind up chasing our own tail (sending some part of the economy spinning out of control as it gets successively more, or less, expensive). All that said, it's silly to have the two prices be so far out of line. If the gold task isn't the greatest, that's OK, but I think it's too sad right now, so I plan to raise it. Similarly for the gems task.
TL;DR: Raising value of gold and gems tasks. They may not be super-great, but they'll be better. My current plan is x5 for gold and x2 for gems (not a promise, just the current plan).
Good catch on Leadership tiering. That's just a flat-out mistake on my part.
There's been lots of discussion about how it's discouraging to work super-hard and then have the price go down. I understand the pain, I can feel it, but I gotta warn you -- sometimes that kind of thing will happen. In MMOs, there are super-dedicated people who play a ton, and there are people who are more casual. Like any MMO, we want to reward the dedicated people but let the casual people have fun too. One classic way to do that is make something hard or expensive at first, but then gradually make it easier over time. The elite will get there first. But over time, more people will get there. On balance, I think that's a good thing. Also, if we just plain made something too expensive, we should fix that!
Influence: this is definitely something we've been looking at. When we did this whole costing pass, we looked at all the coffers to see which ones were the biggest problem. Influence was not the biggest problem according to our data, but it was definitely one of the tougher ones, and we'll keep watching it. Some things that made us willing to wait and see how it goes were that it's not like AD or gems where you really want to keep it for yourself (the only thing to do with it is give it to the coffer) and it's also very farmable -- if your guild sees it needs influence, it can decide to go out and get more. But if it's an endless and frustrating grind to get more, that's no good, so we need to watch that. The feedback here definitely is making me more suspicious of our influence costs, and I've been conveying that to others on the team.
Again, thanks for all the feedback! It's been a really big help.
1) Let US reach the HE-Cap with 3 SH-HE only. ( 200/100/100 instead of 150/120/75/35/20 ) -> More easy to do with 2 or + characters, no waste of time for peanuts.
2) Move the Boons Structures NPCs in the SH Hall, it take few minutes to go at each NPC, and for a lot of players, it's too much for such a poor influence reward before the tier 4 Quests.
3) Demonic SH-HE are SH-HE yes or not ? But no Influence reward from them -> no interest to do them ( we have to do 9 DHE each day, we will not doing more without real rewards ).
4) Add a Minor (+100) ( or Basic (+200)) Influence Voucher as a systematic reward for Dragonflight Event.
Hello @rgutscheradev
I'm guild leader of a Lv 15 Guild and I would like to give you our feedback. We usually have 20-40 players everyday, very cooperative with their donations and the daily grind. However, there are 3 main things that are not longer fun anymore: Influence, Fey Trinkets and Conqueror's Shards. Firstly, Influence, it is extremely boring to farm the same heroic encounters every day. We have been doing the same thing not only with 1 character but several. We try to farm the HE for 15+ players in order to change the monotony but it's still the same. We want to feel like we are doing certain activities that generates resources that we will be able to contribute to the guild and not like we are supposed to work (like a job) for our guild running the same tedious routine of farming HE again and again.
Farming Sharandar is annoying because it doesn't feel rewarding to spend a lot of time doing daily quests just to deliver a small amount of resources to the mimic.
I'll give you an example: If we want to farm Tyranny we can do Dragon Runs in Well of Dragons or Tiamat, that means that we are also receiving AD after selling some items while doing stuff together as a guild. Same thing in Dread Ring, we are doing the daily lairs and receiving greater marks that we need for our characters or we can also sell them. As you can see, both areas are rewarding and doesn't really feel like a pain at all because you are running content that will benefit your guild and yourself directly.
Regarding to the Conqueror's Shards, we are mainly a PvE guild and we really dislike the fact that if we want one of the best boon structures in the game (barracks) then it is necessary to do PvP. It is simply not right to throw PvE players to PvP when they are just looking for something that they only want to use in PvE. I can understand that you want to encourage the PvP environment by adding more players but I'm sure that most PvP players are looking for quality instead of quantity and I'm not going deeper in this issue, considering that there are a ton of reports written every day by these PvPers. Solving their issues would bring a better PvP life for the whole game and using baits like adding conqueror's shards only for PvP matches won't be necessary anymore. I've already noticed that the new campaign will let us get a few shards but I'm afraid that it will not be enough.
I would like to suggest the following:
* Influence: Let us get influence by doing Heroic Encounters in every map of the game, the amount can be halved so we get the same actual amount if we do it in our strongholds and less in other areas. We are adventurers after all, aren't we supposed to get influence by helping in other zones?. Also, adding Influence to the Dragonflight event, 50 or 100 per dragon killed up to a certain daily limit.
* Sharandar: You could add RP like resonance stones, peridots, aquamarines, etc (not just thaumaturge, this isn't interesting) and a small chance to get a Preservation Ward BoA. Additionally, include in the loot for every lair his respective campaign resource, i.e: If I'm doing Witch Fen then I'll get more Abjuring Charms. In summary, running Sharandar and the lairs will be more interesting because I'll get a direct benefit plus resources for my guild. Getting additional resources won't have a major impact in the campaign because it's gated behind Feywild Sparks.
One more thing, could you please take a look to the Illerfarn Relic and/or the resources given by the Genie's Gift for Sharandar? The amount of resources is very, very low in comparison to the other campaigns and it doesn't make any sense to waste a Genie's Gift in Feywld Sparks or Gold Crescents.
* Conqueror's Shards: It would be great if there's a NPC that allow us to exchange one shard for another, maybe not a 1:1 ratio but that would solve a lot of problems for both PvE and PvP players considering that most of each position are not really interested in participating in both kind of content. PvE players that dislike to PvP will find another way to get Conqueror's and PvP players that don't want to do anything related to PvE will still be able to gather enough shards doing only what they really like to do. Are you guys tracking what are the players doing with their Fangs of the Dragonflight? After some months of killing dragons in the stronghold there's not really much to do with this item besides gearing up alts. Perhaps, you could add vouchers to the Marketplace that we can purchase with Fangs. Starting with Green Vouchers at Market Lv X, then Blue after Lv X and even Major Vouchers after certain Level with a cost of 20, 30, etc Fangs each.
As you can see, each one of these suggestions are based in playing the content that you have created for the players. It is a great idea to feel that almost everything I do in the game generate a contribution to my guild, not forced as an extremely boring grinding but as a way to play helping my guildies and myself at the same time.
Thank you very much for your attention.
It would also be great if every HE would give the same amount of influence. It's just not efficient to do more than three HEs. The ratio of influence to time played just gets to bad.
Thank you for looking at the gems and gold return values.
I would like to echo what other people are saying in having some sort of system to trade shards. a 2:1 ratio or something similar of 2 shards you don't want for 1 shard that you do would go a long ways to helping small guilds that get quickly capped on 1 shard or another but have many thousands they need to grind for of a different shard.
Lazalia (lazaroth666) has some excellent points as well about making the grind more enjoyable or more rewarding. Sharandar really is a horrible place to farm right now. it does reward you with thaumaturgic stones but those are practically useless since stacks of R4 enchants are so abundantly available that no one who does a time/reward analysis would ever go farm thaum stones. they would farm DR for greater marks,sell the marks and get many hundreds of times the RP value by using that AD to buy r4s. I understand you do not wish to balance the game around what is available on the AH (and that is smart) but as it is the reward differences between sharandar and other zones is pretty intense.
And I would like to add a request as well to make the AD coffers from leadership Bind to Account. Right now they are BoP and that means if i would have to get all those alts into my guild one at a time to donate the coffers which is needlessly time consuming and annoying both for myself and my guild leaders whom i have to bother. Making the coffers BoA would solve this issue handily.
Having scaling rewards from dragonflight would also be an awesome thing to have. You can base the rewards off of dragons killed per event (which happens to some extent as to the number of vouchers you get, but i would like to see a visible quality increase as well... or at least know that one is in place) as well as (more importantly) the guild hall level. At some point dragons should stop rewarding green vouchers and only provide blue vouchers, and as the guild level increases from there the drop rate of purple vouchers should increase. Farming dragons at guild hall lv 16 is not nearly as rewarding as it is for a lv 5 guild since the rewards are exactly the same (anecdotal of course) but the costs to upgrade are leagues apart
thanks for your feedback you gave us rgutscheradev
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Lots of people chiming in on this, but I want to give some numbers.
My guild is of the very small variety. So, we're still at the stage of needing 126k Influence for the next thing (yes, that's the 4 -> 5 hall upgrade; small guilds, eh?). Divide that by 400 and you get 315 character days. Not a big deal if your guild is so large you're always at the limit, right? If 50 accounts run HEs on 2 characters each, you can be done in a little more than 3 days. Yay, that was easy! (Until you get to higher tiers and it just never stops and everyone is fed up and wants to vomit at the thought of doing another HE.)
Take into account that diminishing returns on Influence/HE make it really inefficient to get the full 400 daily. Getting 345 and stopping is sensible, or push it to 380 because that should get you to 100 enemies slain. That doesn't hurt the big guilds much, because they've got so many members that someone can do a bit more and it makes up for someone else doing a bit less, and all of it is no big deal. It has a snowball effect on slowing down the small ones even more, because every little bit of everything that you don't put in the coffer today adds up to more days of not getting anywhere.
Try doing this with fewer than 10 people. It's possible to push more alts through the SH HE gauntlet, but say it takes 15 minutes per character to do 3 of them. So say you run it with 5 characters. You just spent more than an hour doing an activity that gets you nothing but Influence and a handful of RP and maybe a few other things to cram into the coffer, and that's your gaming time for the day and you got 1725 Influence, no AD, no significant amounts of campaign currency or surplus equipment, and you didn't really get to do anything fun either. Your guildies don't even all have 5 characters, or not ones that can do the HEs, so the burden of Influence falls on even fewer human beings. Divide 315 character days by 15 characters and you get 21 days, if all 15 characters pull their full load each and every day. They probably won't, because people get sick of it and it's not fair to ask them to turn their hobby into a job. They'll just burn out. Burning out on the last guild hall upgrade is why we're only halfway to our next Influence requirement 3 or 4 months down the road, between that and the immediacy of needing this campaign currency and that one for each production structure upgrade that was also required. We can only do so much in a day. All of these activities take time.
At any rate, character days is a very important unit of measure for Influence costs. There's no other use for the item, and you can farm it within the daily limits, but getting it requires participating in a tedious activity that excludes all other in-game goals. It isn't just onerous for small guilds. Big guilds have suffered plenty of member burnout on this front too.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I know it had the ultimate effect of making the structure missions feel like they weren't worth it at all. Considering the ever-increasing requirements for Influence by the time a guild actually gets access to them, and the fact that we really can't do everything every day because that way lies madness, I don't think it would hurt to restore their old value without removing anything from HEs. At the very least, it would provide some variety in how to obtain Influence. I still think that crafting it, and trading shards for it are all worth considering, because it's required for at least the next 3 things I want to build or upgrade, and with the current structure, this is a painful prospect.
You're trying to give us a fun game we want to keep playing, not kill us.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia