To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 m to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
The full dungeon to run from point A start to point B chest take around 7 m xx s depend on your running speed. This not include short videos and pressing F on objects.
To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 min to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
Yea, when reasoning fails, you start picking on the little things that are of absolutely no relevance. The single target fight only would've created a bigger gap between us. Also, since you are always bragging about you being an old-school player, playing since beta, blah blah... you should know by now that the ingame timer is messed and never shows the actual time. Still missing fundamental knowledge about the game.
Okay, let me get this straight... you want to nerf this class because of just one person did that much damage??? there are plenty other people out there that can do this much damage too [Doesn't have to be GWF]. So, why get mad that this person just because spent their time & money to get this outstanding in their character/class. Also, look how long it took to do those dungeon & the amount of damage even with those stats. By the way, don't forget that they have a set that increases there damage, but you know this... you know how to get it. My question to you is; Why not go out and get it yourself?? Also, the party they are with are set up to increase party member stats & debuff enemies to increase damage. One more thing, Let's not forget that the sole purpose if Great Weapon Fighter (GWF) is a DPS class.
I think you are misunderstanding the situation. It is never about a single person, it is about skill and power cap a class can reach. If you are referring to SWs in your 2nd sentence, then yes, they can do insane amounts of damage as well, they can be on-par with a GWF, but I don't know of any other class that can come even close to these 2 in terms of damage. I am not mad at a single player, I am not mad a single class, I just dislike people who are so vehemently protecting their own interests by twisting the truth and facts to their own advantage. You are not looking at it from an objective perspective because you are enjoying your once underpowered class too much, that is now the strongest. If you're talking about the SW set, I'm not an SW. As far as I know, the CW doesn't have any sets that increases personal damage. If you mean the Lostmauth set, I have it too. There is nothing against GWF being a DPS class, doing 3 times as much damage as anyone else is the problem. I don't need to educate myself, I am familiar with the role a GWF is supposed to fill. You guys need to finally understand that you cannot implement a class 1:1 from another game into a different environment and expect it to work the same and not be touched to make it fit into the current environment. I don't think I need to be educated on the subject as I have plenty of experience creating and fine-tuning such environments in different games.
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
Yes, i said it too. What i also said is that "that damage must be not even near to "striker classes" " . And, now, if you want to, search for a game where the CONTROLLER CLASS deals more damage than the STRIKER CLASS.
Most games tie the control role to a wizard-archetype, which then excell at dealing AOE damage. Lineage 2's Necromancer, Sorcerer, Spellsinger could fit this description. Lineage 2 however, also had a Warlord (a physical AOE stunner/damager) and an Overlord that excells at buffing allies and debuffing/controlling everything around himself. If you take a look at most MMOs, they usually give spell user classes control abilities.
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 min to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
This statement here immediately disqualifies everything you have said. Etos: mod 7 I have finished in 9 mins 38 seconds Egwd: Finished in 17 mins 12 seconds Ecc: Haven't actually timed because there are so many doors in the damn instance, but definitely under 25 mins.
You can just run from 1 door to the other in dungeins and clear everthing in place. Anyhow, I am kind of curious as to how this thread got derailed from rumour mill of the game to nerf gwf's. Only popped in really because someone mentioned my name. Also, the in game timer is horribly wrong, I am not sure what it is actually timing but it is not how long it takes you to clear a dungeon.
And with regards to @oria1 in that picture there, his CW (Cyler) is great, so I imagine his GWF is as well. Haven't done a run with him since mod 6, but hes one of those players with BiS gear who knows what they doing.
Yes, you are correct and we agree on that last part, but seems like you still do not get that GWF is both AoE AND Single target damage dealer... do not get why this simple detail is so hard to understand for you.
because 180 degrees is not 360 degrees. That's a cone, not a radius.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited September 2015
Just saying GF vs GWF DPS
[IMG] [/IMG] [IMG] [/IMG]
And i was way ower her I lvl . Both of us had lol set.
If you have lol set and high crit chance around 100% then then any other enchant what you put on your char what is not P.vorpal is -50% dmg.
P.vorpal boost your lol set dmg too.
T.ligthing not do anything with lol set 1k dmg is nothing vs 50-60k .
I dont say the photo is fake i say the GWF is fake.
Noone have rank 20 stronghold to got the 8000 power boon ar anyithing else his total offensive stat is more then 100k.
He need at least rank 20 enchants to get this power.
He only had the lvl 3 HP boons from the Stronghold.
Not having a perfect or higher vorpal, doesn't mean that it puts you behind for as much as 50% damage. Even with 100% crit chance, if you are above 100% crit severity, Pvorpal with it's 50% crit sev, doesn't add 50% but less due to diminishing returns. Having a 100% crit chance uptime ALL THE TIME is close impossible, so that means the 50% crit severity is worth even less. Opposing to the huge base damage of the GWF's 2h weapon, the CW's base weapon is the lowest in the game, right next to the DC's. The Orb of Elemental Fire has a damage range of 1230 to 1504, while the GWF's is 1772 to 2166. Any damage multiplier, so in this case, the 50% crit severity, boosts your lostmauth procs by a lot more than it does for the CW. A Pvorp for a CW; doesn't add 50-60k damage to the lostmauth proc, it adds, maybe 5-6k. While this is still a great number, compared to the damage you'd deal without it and the fact that it also boost other damage sources that can crit, I still decided to go with the Pure Lightning. I'm using effects that do not have the ability to crit. (Storm Spell, Abyss of Chaos and now the Lightning enchantment as well)
LOL set + P.vorpal
No buff was involved i have super low power and GF isnt famus from her weapon dmg .
If i am full buffed conq cap stone hit the max i can do around 60-80 k lol set procc . W/o Vorpal i do around 30 k.
romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited September 2015
Yea, so what now? As far as I'm concerned, you just proved me right.
Also, have you taken min-max weapon damage rolls into consideration? A single number shows nothing, do several hits and test for lowest/highest damage to see the differences with both Vorpal and no Vorpal.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 min to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
This statement here immediately disqualifies everything you have said. Etos: mod 7 I have finished in 9 mins 38 seconds Egwd: Finished in 17 mins 12 seconds Ecc: Haven't actually timed because there are so many doors in the damn instance, but definitely under 25 mins.
You can just run from 1 door to the other in dungeins and clear everthing in place. Anyhow, I am kind of curious as to how this thread got derailed from rumour mill of the game to nerf gwf's. Only popped in really because someone mentioned my name. Also, the in game timer is horribly wrong, I am not sure what it is actually timing but it is not how long it takes you to clear a dungeon.
And with regards to @oria1 in that picture there, his CW (Cyler) is great, so I imagine his GWF is as well. Haven't done a run with him since mod 6, but hes one of those players with BiS gear who knows what they doing.
To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 min to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
This statement here immediately disqualifies everything you have said. Etos: mod 7 I have finished in 9 mins 38 seconds Egwd: Finished in 17 mins 12 seconds Ecc: Haven't actually timed because there are so many doors in the damn instance, but definitely under 25 mins.
The picture was from ECC i talked about ECC not egwd or TOS.
romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
edited September 2015
The thing is, I refrained from giving detailed explanations to zacazu and schweifer, because they are parroting everything back later on. They don't realise that they just aren't right and keep trying to prove and prove until the person on the opposing side just dies of boredom and stops going into these looped discussions where they keep turning the whole thing back to the exact same arguments. It's just no fun, we are not going forward.
The thing is, I refrained from giving detailed explanations to zacazu and schweifer, because they are parroting everything back later on. They don't realise that they just aren't right and keep trying to prove and prove until the person on the opposing side just dies of boredom and stops going into these looped discussions where they keep turning the whole thing back to the exact same arguments. It's just no fun, we are not going forward.
English only please.
So?? you are affecting more than 1 enemy with a radious (AoE) attack. Its not necessary to be a "360º" to make an attack fall in "AoE" category.
that is just another bluff of that guy, but a note: gwf have MORE aoe powers than cw. your first aoe ATWILL cover a area superior than the big majority of cw powers. the problem is just one...
that powers are not optimized
intimidation, intimidation...
Post edited by kreatyve on
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Also, an arc does have a radius. A circle is just an arc that's 360 degrees.
I read every post to this thread, and every post made me invision a nerd wiggling their fingures over the keyboard saying "well actually!" If you want a balanced game, play D&D. If you want to stare at a screen and waste time... also play D&D. I think all classes are OP and need to be nerfed except TR! Because I built mine wrong and refuse to respec.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Yes, i said it too. What i also said is that "that damage must be not even near to "striker classes" " . And, now, if you want to, search for a game where the CONTROLLER CLASS deals more damage than the STRIKER CLASS.
There is a game! Its called DnD where wizards and warlocks can do aoe dmg! Have you heard about it?
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 min to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
This statement here immediately disqualifies everything you have said. Etos: mod 7 I have finished in 9 mins 38 seconds Egwd: Finished in 17 mins 12 seconds Ecc: Haven't actually timed because there are so many doors in the damn instance, but definitely under 25 mins.
You can just run from 1 door to the other in dungeins and clear everthing in place. Anyhow, I am kind of curious as to how this thread got derailed from rumour mill of the game to nerf gwf's. Only popped in really because someone mentioned my name. Also, the in game timer is horribly wrong, I am not sure what it is actually timing but it is not how long it takes you to clear a dungeon.
And with regards to @oria1 in that picture there, his CW (Cyler) is great, so I imagine his GWF is as well. Haven't done a run with him since mod 6, but hes one of those players with BiS gear who knows what they doing.
To finish T2 legit you need at least do in total 200 mill dmg or more and you need at least 25 min to finish it legit.
This tells somthing .
Next time if you post somthing press the X on blackdaggers corpse in the boss room.
This statement here immediately disqualifies everything you have said. Etos: mod 7 I have finished in 9 mins 38 seconds Egwd: Finished in 17 mins 12 seconds Ecc: Haven't actually timed because there are so many doors in the damn instance, but definitely under 25 mins.
The picture was from ECC i talked about ECC not egwd or TOS.
Can still easily be finished in a group with 2k ilvl under 25 mins. You just need 1x CW, 1X GWf and have spammed ITF+Steal time on tab then run door to door. Its easy to prove or test out yourself, in a competent group, you not going to wipe on last boss if you playing seriously. I mean seriously, CN could be done in under 15 mins legit and it was a much longer dungeon.
Yes, you are correct and we agree on that last part, but seems like you still do not get that GWF is both AoE AND Single target damage dealer... do not get why this simple detail is so hard to understand for you.
What are you guys reading? No GWF is just single target dmg!
Its unnatural that GWF is doing more aoe dmg as CW/SWs... And you are very mistaken if you think this mod6 overbuff goes forever!
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
To be honest everyone asking for GWF nerfs (Bearing in mind I main CW and dev OP ) I think the devs got more pressing concerns atm (like leadership and ad) then nerfing classes (like GWF or OP). Also, quite honestly, I would rather they focus on fixing that aspect of the game right now then on rebalancing classes.
i had like playing "dragon disciple" as one of prestige template, it made paladin/sorc/DD very powerful character as armor defense went beyond AC 45 base and often immune to crit hits. even with other fighter templates, as paladin/weapon master/shadow dancer for massive crit hits can make wizards dps look small.
i would love to see NWO to add daul classes and new prestige templates, right now, every GF/OP are almost exact clones in this game.
I still hope, that the Devs will at first fix all the broken artifacts, enchantments, equipment and even powers... before they start messing around with classes.
Wont happen. They will do it all at one time and mess it up all over again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PnP Red Box DM & Player (74 - ?). NWN + SoU + HotU (4-03),
NWN Diamond Edition, Neverwinter Nights Complete (NWN + NWN2).
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
So?? you are affecting more than 1 enemy with a radious (AoE) attack. Its not necessary to be a "360º" to make an attack fall in "AoE" category.
It is an AOE attack, but it is an inferior AOE attack on a technical level. It reaches less targets, FAR LESS targets than a 360% AOE could. So on paper, the 360 should be more effective than a 180 or less. On paper, the CW should be twice as effective with every AOE ability being 360 degrees, but only if we're talking about an optimal situation with monsters being all over the place and not just infront of you in a bunch, closely pulled together. This is one of the reasons why a CW is far more effective in a VT run than in other dungeons when we are comparing GWFs and CWs. The GWF AOE is not long range enough (think of SWs) and doesn't happen in a big enough radius and with a wide enough degree to be able to compete IN THEORY. Now how come a GWF is still able to outperform these other 2 classes (less the SW, more the CW) ? It's because the damage has to be exponentionally higher so that despite these mechanical disadvantages, he still comes out on top.
Yes, you are correct and we agree on that last part, but seems like you still do not get that GWF is both AoE AND Single target damage dealer... do not get why this simple detail is so hard to understand for you.
What are you guys reading? No GWF is just single target dmg!
Its unnatural that GWF is doing more aoe dmg as CW/SWs... And you are very mistaken if you think this mod6 overbuff goes forever!
single target powers:
3 firsts hits of sure strike (the last have a cap 3)
Takedown
Restoring strike
Second hit of savage advanced
Flourish (exclusive for swordmaster). Crescendo:daily (exclusive for swordmaster) Indomitable Strength (exclusive for IV)
over the top:
original dev designe:
"One of the primary questions we received was regarding the design goal of the Great Weapon Fighter. From a systems design perspective, the Great Weapon Fighter is designed to be a class that excels at AoE DPS and taking hits while providing a bit of control to the fight."
nwo is inspireded in 4E. that means, 4e exist before. every note about nwo, even the most remote note, come AFTER that 4e. 2 NOTES HERE HAVE LESS THAN ONE YEAR OR 6 MONTHS.
your better argument - dynamics, outdated concepts, etc - in fact, is a argument in my favor!
what you call a context here dont have any base. no quotes, no facts. i have the dev notes, time in my favor, facts - gwf have more aoe powers - what you have? a very, very outdated and EXTERNAL note about what you think about controllers .
why just dont say "you are correct, but i dont agree"? why the discussion need reach that situation?
You dont think that a change x is fair or consistent? ok. now, ignoring every note, every fact and think thats happening by some histerical ilusion (like,who is more aoe designate or what means be a striker or controller)+bad programing is your checkmate?
************************** politically correct now? I hope.
I had thought it was partly from lostmauth, at about the same base critial chance % for GWF I am seeing the top source of damage from lostmauth at 25% and for my TR lostmauth is the second source of damage at 16% (7 million in damage for the tr out of 1500 lostmauth procs, and 15 million in damage from the GWF out of 1000 lostmauth procs revealing some interesting information in those details). Even if I removed the lostmauth from the equation it is still 47 million total for my gwf and 33 million for my TR (who is 500 IL higher). I get as much damage from hidden daggers as I do from lostmauth on my TR and it is my 5th source of damage in order compared to lostmauth as second on my TR.
Comments
This not include short videos and pressing F on objects.
If you're talking about the SW set, I'm not an SW. As far as I know, the CW doesn't have any sets that increases personal damage. If you mean the Lostmauth set, I have it too.
There is nothing against GWF being a DPS class, doing 3 times as much damage as anyone else is the problem.
I don't need to educate myself, I am familiar with the role a GWF is supposed to fill. You guys need to finally understand that you cannot implement a class 1:1 from another game into a different environment and expect it to work the same and not be touched to make it fit into the current environment. I don't think I need to be educated on the subject as I have plenty of experience creating and fine-tuning such environments in different games.
If you take a look at most MMOs, they usually give spell user classes control abilities.
Etos: mod 7 I have finished in 9 mins 38 seconds
Egwd: Finished in 17 mins 12 seconds
Ecc: Haven't actually timed because there are so many doors in the damn instance, but definitely under 25 mins.
You can just run from 1 door to the other in dungeins and clear everthing in place. Anyhow, I am kind of curious as to how this thread got derailed from rumour mill of the game to nerf gwf's. Only popped in really because someone mentioned my name. Also, the in game timer is horribly wrong, I am not sure what it is actually timing but it is not how long it takes you to clear a dungeon.
And with regards to @oria1 in that picture there, his CW (Cyler) is great, so I imagine his GWF is as well. Haven't done a run with him since mod 6, but hes one of those players with BiS gear who knows what they doing.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
[IMG]
[/IMG]
And i was way ower her I lvl . Both of us had lol set.
LOL set + P.vorpal
No buff was involved i have super low power and GF isnt famus from her weapon dmg .
If i am full buffed conq cap stone hit the max i can do around 60-80 k lol set procc .
W/o Vorpal i do around 30 k.
Also, have you taken min-max weapon damage rolls into consideration? A single number shows nothing, do several hits and test for lowest/highest damage to see the differences with both Vorpal and no Vorpal.
So?? you are affecting more than 1 enemy with a radious (AoE) attack. Its not necessary to be a "360º" to make an attack fall in "AoE" category.
that is just another bluff of that guy, but a note: gwf have MORE aoe powers than cw. your first aoe ATWILL cover a area superior than the big majority of cw powers. the problem is just one...
that powers are not optimized
intimidation, intimidation...
http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Fighter
"Fighter is a martial defender class in 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons."
Have you heard about it?
No GWF is just single target dmg!
Its unnatural that GWF is doing more aoe dmg as CW/SWs...
And you are very mistaken if you think this mod6 overbuff goes forever!
even with other fighter templates, as paladin/weapon master/shadow dancer for massive crit hits can make wizards dps look small.
i would love to see NWO to add daul classes and new prestige templates, right now, every GF/OP are almost exact clones in this game.
PnP Red Box DM & Player (74 - ?). NWN + SoU + HotU (4-03),
NWN Diamond Edition, Neverwinter Nights Complete (NWN + NWN2).
3 firsts hits of sure strike (the last have a cap 3)
Takedown
Restoring strike
Second hit of savage advanced
Flourish (exclusive for swordmaster).
Crescendo:daily (exclusive for swordmaster)
Indomitable Strength (exclusive for IV)
over the top:
original dev designe:
"One of the primary questions we received was regarding the design goal of the Great Weapon Fighter. From a systems design perspective, the Great Weapon Fighter is designed to be a class that excels at AoE DPS and taking hits while providing a bit of control to the fight."
mistaken is you stay here.
If you think that GWFs should do more aoe dmg with an at-will(wicked reminder) as the only power they use as HR/SW/CW than you are sadly mistaken!
your better argument - dynamics, outdated concepts, etc - in fact, is a argument in my favor!
what you call a context here dont have any base. no quotes, no facts. i have the dev notes, time in my favor, facts - gwf have more aoe powers - what you have? a very, very outdated and EXTERNAL note about what you think about controllers .
why just dont say "you are correct, but i dont agree"? why the discussion need reach that situation?
You dont think that a change x is fair or consistent? ok. now, ignoring every note, every fact and think thats happening by some histerical ilusion (like,who is more aoe designate or what means be a striker or controller)+bad programing is your checkmate?
**************************
politically correct now? I hope.