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Put into perspective the changes to Leadership on Gateway

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    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    The only solution: a new currency, the SUPERZEN!
  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    mattsacre wrote: »
    You miss the point. Free market mechanics WORK, yes it will run wild for a while, then it will float to the real value.

    Think this through:
    [...]

    Yup.

    Step one:The profiteer people currently fast-trading e.g. RP the moment the news of a 2x RP weekend drops would rejoice, sell all material assets and buy ZEN. Great, for them, as there's no fee whatsoever on the ZAX. They'd buy almost all ZEN washed into the market, as they do have the bigger AD pools. Common players would only draw blanks.

    Step two: There would only be two groups profiting: The ZEN buyers - they'd get a lot of AD for their ZEN. and the AD zillionaires - they'd get speculation profits without even the AH AD sink.

    Step three: Economy goes bonkers. Barter trades rule, Trade channel scrolls faster than anyone can read due to all people offering their drops and enchantments for GMoPs or somesuch.

    Step four: Players leave.

    Step five: The two groups from step two leave too - nobody else in here, meh, boring...

    Step six: Servers get shut down.

    It's amazing how many people don't get this. You can't leave real life other than death. There are options other than neverwinter if the economy went completely fubar from deregulation, and it would, just like real economies do every single time.
  • Options
    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    It's like a problem of labor mobility. A country that has a bad economy may find all the working age residents emigrating to other countries, which can then negatively affect its ability to generate tax revenues to cover needed services, and therefore the economy gets even worse, until the whole thing just collapses.
  • Options
    gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    charononus wrote: »
    selastion wrote: »
    > @ejziponken said:
    > The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.
    >
    > Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.
    >
    > You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

    ^^^^^^^ Yeah That!!!

    First of all I think the question; "WHY are people doing so much botting for AD's?"

    This is GAME currency, it's not like they can cash out and go buy a car or something. People are botting to be able to buy 'STUFF' in the game.

    WHY are they botting?

    Short answer is many people are botting because that is the ONLY way they can play the game, participate in those extremely difficult quests with over powered opponents and survive.

    To get the good gear you have to play the epic quests - to play the epic quests you have to have good gear...

    It's that simple.

    Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system. I am not convinced that it has anything to do with leadership.


    No no, Ive been here since the BETA and the prices were superhigh right from day 1.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    selastion wrote: »
    > @ejziponken said:
    > The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.
    >
    > Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.
    >
    > You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

    ^^^^^^^ Yeah That!!!

    First of all I think the question; "WHY are people doing so much botting for AD's?"

    This is GAME currency, it's not like they can cash out and go buy a car or something. People are botting to be able to buy 'STUFF' in the game.

    WHY are they botting?

    Short answer is many people are botting because that is the ONLY way they can play the game, participate in those extremely difficult quests with over powered opponents and survive.

    To get the good gear you have to play the epic quests - to play the epic quests you have to have good gear...

    It's that simple.

    Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system. I am not convinced that it has anything to do with leadership.


    No no, Ive been here since the BETA and the prices were superhigh right from day 1.
    You realize that only proves my point right? Caturday wasn't a one day event. Just the masses finally found out then. I had things go "missing" on the ah day one.
  • Options
    gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    charononus wrote: »
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    selastion wrote: »
    > @ejziponken said:
    > The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.
    >
    > Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.
    >
    > You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

    ^^^^^^^ Yeah That!!!

    First of all I think the question; "WHY are people doing so much botting for AD's?"

    This is GAME currency, it's not like they can cash out and go buy a car or something. People are botting to be able to buy 'STUFF' in the game.

    WHY are they botting?

    Short answer is many people are botting because that is the ONLY way they can play the game, participate in those extremely difficult quests with over powered opponents and survive.

    To get the good gear you have to play the epic quests - to play the epic quests you have to have good gear...

    It's that simple.

    Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system. I am not convinced that it has anything to do with leadership.


    No no, Ive been here since the BETA and the prices were superhigh right from day 1.
    You realize that only proves my point right? Caturday wasn't a one day event. Just the masses finally found out then. I had things go "missing" on the ah day one.

    You wrote: "Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system."

    If the prices were super high before any exploits was discovered, how does that prove your point? It only proves that the prices always been high no matter what exploits was used.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    selastion wrote: »
    > @ejziponken said:
    > The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.
    >
    > Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.
    >
    > You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

    ^^^^^^^ Yeah That!!!

    First of all I think the question; "WHY are people doing so much botting for AD's?"

    This is GAME currency, it's not like they can cash out and go buy a car or something. People are botting to be able to buy 'STUFF' in the game.

    WHY are they botting?

    Short answer is many people are botting because that is the ONLY way they can play the game, participate in those extremely difficult quests with over powered opponents and survive.

    To get the good gear you have to play the epic quests - to play the epic quests you have to have good gear...

    It's that simple.

    Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system. I am not convinced that it has anything to do with leadership.


    No no, Ive been here since the BETA and the prices were superhigh right from day 1.
    You realize that only proves my point right? Caturday wasn't a one day event. Just the masses finally found out then. I had things go "missing" on the ah day one.

    You wrote: "Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system."

    If the prices were super high before any exploits was discovered, how does that prove your point? It only proves that the prices always been high no matter what exploits was used.
    It's because exploits were happening from day 1. Some of it was also the founders packs and people trying to get founders to burn thru their money. Caturday ran from day one till caturday. It wasn't a one day event. The AD was being injected the whole time.

  • Options
    gankdalf#8991 gankdalf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 930 Arc User
    charononus wrote: »
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    selastion wrote: »
    > @ejziponken said:
    > The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.
    >
    > Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.
    >
    > You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

    ^^^^^^^ Yeah That!!!

    First of all I think the question; "WHY are people doing so much botting for AD's?"

    This is GAME currency, it's not like they can cash out and go buy a car or something. People are botting to be able to buy 'STUFF' in the game.

    WHY are they botting?

    Short answer is many people are botting because that is the ONLY way they can play the game, participate in those extremely difficult quests with over powered opponents and survive.

    To get the good gear you have to play the epic quests - to play the epic quests you have to have good gear...

    It's that simple.

    Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system. I am not convinced that it has anything to do with leadership.


    No no, Ive been here since the BETA and the prices were superhigh right from day 1.
    You realize that only proves my point right? Caturday wasn't a one day event. Just the masses finally found out then. I had things go "missing" on the ah day one.

    You wrote: "Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system."

    If the prices were super high before any exploits was discovered, how does that prove your point? It only proves that the prices always been high no matter what exploits was used.
    It's because exploits were happening from day 1. Some of it was also the founders packs and people trying to get founders to burn thru their money. Caturday ran from day one till caturday. It wasn't a one day event. The AD was being injected the whole time.

    Even if that was true, Cryptic didn't know that when they set the prices day 1.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • Options
    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    The idea that prices are so high because of the large amounts of AD flushed into the system is bunk.

    Zen wasn't that expensive back in the earlier days of beta, but AH prices were.

    That being said, I seem to think dragon eggs used to be a lot cheaper.
  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    ejziponken wrote: »
    charononus wrote: »
    selastion wrote: »
    > @ejziponken said:
    > The big picture is that the prices on everything is so out of proportion (not only AH but ZEN store too) so you are forcing players that love the game to find ways to get that AD and at the same time you guys are removing all the legit ways to farm AD.
    >
    > Tell me, how does a normal player afford enchants and mounts that cost millions of AD? P2W. There is no other legit way to play all of the content this game offers. Miss the old days where you could actually play the game and gain enough AD to buy stuff. Now you have to farm dungeons etc for hours to even buy a dye pack.
    >
    > You will lose a large portion of the playerbase by cutting them off without adding legit ways to gain AD. How long will it take for you to come up with new ways to earn AD? The players will be long gone by then. I don't know a single player that would stick around playing a game where they cant afford to buy anything and progress.

    ^^^^^^^ Yeah That!!!

    First of all I think the question; "WHY are people doing so much botting for AD's?"

    This is GAME currency, it's not like they can cash out and go buy a car or something. People are botting to be able to buy 'STUFF' in the game.

    WHY are they botting?

    Short answer is many people are botting because that is the ONLY way they can play the game, participate in those extremely difficult quests with over powered opponents and survive.

    To get the good gear you have to play the epic quests - to play the epic quests you have to have good gear...

    It's that simple.

    Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system. I am not convinced that it has anything to do with leadership.


    No no, Ive been here since the BETA and the prices were superhigh right from day 1.
    You realize that only proves my point right? Caturday wasn't a one day event. Just the masses finally found out then. I had things go "missing" on the ah day one.

    You wrote: "Actually I'm of the firm belief that things cost so much because the economy never recovered from several exploits that injected what was likely billions if not trillions of AD into the system."

    If the prices were super high before any exploits was discovered, how does that prove your point? It only proves that the prices always been high no matter what exploits was used.
    It's because exploits were happening from day 1. Some of it was also the founders packs and people trying to get founders to burn thru their money. Caturday ran from day one till caturday. It wasn't a one day event. The AD was being injected the whole time.

    Even if that was true, Cryptic didn't know that when they set the prices day 1.
    Who cares about the prices cryptic sets. Gmops aren't that hard to get. The problem isn't cryptics prices it's the pricing that others make. Very very little has to be bought from cryptic.
  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    The idea that prices are so high because of the large amounts of AD flushed into the system is bunk.

    Zen wasn't that expensive back in the earlier days of beta, but AH prices were.

    That being said, I seem to think dragon eggs used to be a lot cheaper.

    Only during mod 5 because of tiamat. I saved all of mine from that time period and just sold them now for a nice profit.

  • Options
    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    Dragon Eggs are the key commodity in the AH markets. For those of us who are producers ("Job creators!" ... for profession assets), the price of dragon eggs determines profit or loss. Price of produced items on the AH is obviously subject to dragon egg prices, but between UE and Dragon Eggs, it's actually become pretty difficult to make a decent profit on shirt/pants right now.

    But just looking at the dragon eggs, gemmed rings are doing pretty well.
  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    Dragon Eggs are the key commodity in the AH markets. For those of us who are producers ("Job creators!" ... for profession assets), the price of dragon eggs determines profit or loss. Price of produced items on the AH is obviously subject to dragon egg prices, but between UE and Dragon Eggs, it's actually become pretty difficult to make a decent profit on shirt/pants right now.

    But just looking at the dragon eggs, gemmed rings are doing pretty well.

    Dragon's eggs cost more because we're back to them being hard to get unlike in mod 5 where they rained from the sky. They cost more because there are less of them. If tiamat went back to faceroll again they'd be more common.

  • Options
    sm0ld3rsm0ld3r Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    Well there was a long period of time when the Zax was around 300-350AD/Zen.
  • Options
    theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    The point is, it's kind of hard to measure the robustness of the economy. The things people buy are either:

    A.) Something that the botters churn out in full force (enchants, peridots, etc)
    B.) Things from the wondrous bazaar, that thus have fixed prices
    C.) Zen shop items, that are basically "How much of a markup can you charge people for the priviledge of not having to wait in the queue"
    D.) Items highly sensetive to commodity shocks (eg Dragon Eggs).

    What normal, "Basket of goods" items can we really use to compare prices? In order to have a good barometer for the inflation in the economy as a result of the availability of money, you need goods whose price reflects the availability of money. Instead, we have goods whose prices are nearly entirely determined by outside events.
  • Options
    vladious1977vladious1977 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    charononus wrote: »
    Dragon Eggs are the key commodity in the AH markets. For those of us who are producers ("Job creators!" ... for profession assets), the price of dragon eggs determines profit or loss. Price of produced items on the AH is obviously subject to dragon egg prices, but between UE and Dragon Eggs, it's actually become pretty difficult to make a decent profit on shirt/pants right now.

    But just looking at the dragon eggs, gemmed rings are doing pretty well.

    Dragon's eggs cost more because we're back to them being hard to get unlike in mod 5 where they rained from the sky. They cost more because there are less of them. If tiamat went back to faceroll again they'd be more common.

    They rained from the sky when you could use an exploit in neverdeath gy to get almost an infinite amount of profession packs. The likelihood there would be and still do have a high likelihood of containing a dragon egg. I go here about every few days on a new char and I say it is about a true 50 percent chance of getting an egg.
  • Options
    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    charononus wrote: »
    Dragon Eggs are the key commodity in the AH markets. For those of us who are producers ("Job creators!" ... for profession assets), the price of dragon eggs determines profit or loss. Price of produced items on the AH is obviously subject to dragon egg prices, but between UE and Dragon Eggs, it's actually become pretty difficult to make a decent profit on shirt/pants right now.

    But just looking at the dragon eggs, gemmed rings are doing pretty well.

    Dragon's eggs cost more because we're back to them being hard to get unlike in mod 5 where they rained from the sky. They cost more because there are less of them. If tiamat went back to faceroll again they'd be more common.

    They rained from the sky when you could use an exploit in neverdeath gy to get almost an infinite amount of profession packs. The likelihood there would be and still do have a high likelihood of containing a dragon egg. I go here about every few days on a new char and I say it is about a true 50 percent chance of getting an egg.

    I've gotten so rng screwed on that. I forget that you can get eggs from that pack.
  • Options
    cjh1983cjh1983 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 229 Arc User
    Is there any new info on this?
  • Options
    taitinhakkaajataitinhakkaaja Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    So after a month with no leadership in gateway i don't see lowering prices. Quite the opposite in fact, since AD income has dropped for us legit players. Maybe u should put our efforts to prevent in game botting and annoying spammers.
  • Options
    kemi1984kemi1984 Member Posts: 849 Arc User
    So after a month with no leadership in gateway i don't see lowering prices. Quite the opposite in fact, since AD income has dropped for us legit players. Maybe u should put our efforts to prevent in game botting and annoying spammers.

    None of above are in Neverwinter. These are just active players #sarcasm#
    We're all waiting for the team to update us with options to earn our AD's in game. For now, there are none worth mentioning.
    Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter
    A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"

    1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
    2). Yes. I am panzer!
    3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
    4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
  • Options
    myles08807myles08807 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 409 Arc User
    quspiv wrote: »
    People who got pissed are mostly f2p scrubs who abused the poor design to get everything for free without even leaving the PE. Leadership should've never been in the gateway nor reward AD.

    Legit players who actually play the game wont see any difference in their AD income. If you do daily PvP quests you get 8k AD total, 6k from dungeon (during the event), 6k from skirmishes (during the event), 3k from invoking if you're lvl 70. Rest you can get from leadership or Foundry.

    Those who play the game are still getting rewarded and can easily reach the max AD refine cap, at least on their main character.

    I am sick to death of being called quite the variety of unpleasant names by Gamergate trolls who live in Mommy's basement and do nothing but A) grind out their neverending quests 16+ hours a day, 7 days a week, and (B) apply quite the variety of unpleasant names to anyone who plays the game differently from them...but I guess that "live and let live", like "deodorant" or "regular bathing", are foreign concepts to some.
  • Options
    therealairheadtherealairhead Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    CM responses in this thread indicate this topic is still being discussed by devs; is there any new info?
  • Options
    sm0ld3rsm0ld3r Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    It's not being discussed and not many still care. The bots moved in game so they don't care and the folks with jobs that can't use the gateway moved on. They won't be back so there is no way for them to fix this.
  • Options
    regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,044 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    As mentioned before, the Devs should remove all professions from The Gateway, and instead offer some kind of mini games there, with some nice rewards.

    And the Devs should also get more active GM power into the game... get some volunteers, that are supervised by real GMs to clean out the bot hives as a start.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • Options
    silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    I havent even logged into gateway since this change.. since A, I never win those stupid rings (belts, icons and stuff sure.. never rings) and B.. leadership is the only thing I ever do profession wise.

    To me personally gateway is dead.

    Its sad because I used to use it every day.. now I have to spend that time I would normally run through professions at lunchtime as in game activity, which takes away from playing the game.

    I still miss it and I wish it was back.
  • Options
    myles08807myles08807 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 409 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I log onto Gateway to collect my Leadership AD and to transfer AD to my main. It saves me precious minutes when the only thing I have time for after 12 hours of work is a quick restart of my professions before precious, precious sleep claims me. But, hey, I'm not really playing the game then, am I...

    P.S. I still make the AD refining limit 2 days out of 3 with all 10 of my level 25 Leadership toons. I'll live without full Gateway access.
  • Options
    deathbeezdeathbeez Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 789 Arc User
    I don't really follow the NWO economy discussions.
    Since things started going bound on pick up since mod5. I really don't buy anything I can't get from the bazaar.




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    cjh1983cjh1983 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 229 Arc User
    farmers are still selling and farming AD with no seemingly little to no interruption - why was this changed again
  • Options
    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,307 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    cjh1983 said:

    farmers are still selling and farming AD with no seemingly little to no interruption - why was this changed again

    Because it is NOT about those are selling AD, the "professional". It is about the "causal" players like you and me who can get free software easily to do the "cheap" botting using gateway. For disclaimer, I did not and do not do botting myself and I hate they nerf'ed my access.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
This discussion has been closed.