The problem is the loading of the exp curve and the lack of of 60-70 PVE content.
1-50 freaking goes too fast, I frequently outlevel zones if I try to completely follow the story. Then BAM lvl 60 so, you'll catch up with the 1-60 content, still be 60 and head to Exceptionally Evil Vigilance quests.
Before 60 you couldn't finish the quests off before it was time to move on, now, it's the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, with very little story and MUCH harder mobs.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Vigilance tasks used to give about 1.7k XP each (that's with whatever modifiers I was carrying), the same as the majority of campaign daily quests still do.
It's not about the amount of the XP each one gives, but the proportion to how much it's needed to achieve one level.
What in your opinion, is the amount of tasks one should complete in each area before passing onto the next? And by area I mean a region of the map (like the first 16 tasks in Drowned Shores or whatever other place). If you are not a power player that can log in more than 6 hours per day, I say that 40+ is not reasonable.
To be clear, I am not remotely defending this change. I'm completely disgusted with it but don't really need to rehash all of my comments made elsewhere.
I'm just saying that they did increase the XP granted by individual vigilance tasks. Roughly doubled, I thought. One of the initial criticisms of vigilance tasks was that their XP was unrewarding and it was better to do pretty much *anything* else to get from 60-70. So, the patch superficially appears to have addressed that complaint.
They simultaneously increased the XP needed to level up (not sure by how much as I have no levelling characters right now), and to gain overflow experience rewards (more than doubled). No other quests received a corresponding buff in XP granted.
This was touted in the patch notes as making it "more rewarding" to do at-level content. Because apparently the notes were written to troll us.
Basically, they made the vigilance tasks the most rewarding way to gain XP by introducing a system in which everything else is so unrewarding they're your only option, and even that's a slow crawl through mud.
Vigilance tasks used to give about 1.7k XP each (that's with whatever modifiers I was carrying), the same as the majority of campaign daily quests still do.
It's not about the amount of the XP each one gives, but the proportion to how much it's needed to achieve one level.
What in your opinion, is the amount of tasks one should complete in each area before passing onto the next? And by area I mean a region of the map (like the first 16 tasks in Drowned Shores or whatever other place). If you are not a power player that can log in more than 6 hours per day, I say that 40+ is not reasonable.
They simultaneously increased the XP needed to level up (not sure by how much as I have no levelling characters right now)
I can't remember the pre-nerf numbers but I can give a qualitative comparison.
The two toons I previously levelled to 70 hit SpinRise as early as possible - around L68. By the time I finished the Vigilance tasks and got my mainhand I was just about at L70. So around 2 levels for the 50-something quest I did in the zone.
This weekend - during Double XP - I levelled a third toon. I took her into SpinRise at around L67.5 and by the time I gained my mainhand I was just short of L69. That's 1.5 levels for more than 50 quests AT DOUBLE XP. Without the event I'd have maybe managed 1 level.
The real killer, though, is that 69-70 now requires a whopping 720k XP and the only place you can gt it is by redoing content you already did time and time and TIME AGAIN.
This has to be a miscalculation. Someone got their math wrong somewhere, because nobody is going to be able to stomach this much grind. Not only am I done levelling any toon past 60 now I robably won't even finish levelling the one stuck at 69 until the next Double XP event. If at all. And that means I won't be spending any cash on them.
At this point, I can see this game sharing the same fate as Champion Online ...
Don't you mean, City of Heroes? I have a feeling that Protector's Enclave and Paragon City will be very congruent.
COH was actually a tremendous game that was most certainly not P2W....
....COH was infinitely more balanced than NWO.
Indeed. I can't disagree there. I thought CoH was pretty decent. The parallel that I'm drawing though isn't with the game, content, or balance. More so, it's with the end result.
This leveling thing hurt pretty bad... was in the middle of leveling my 4th toon from 60 and bam patch hit. Now I haven't leveled in days. In fact I gave up. 1.2mil left, I said screw that. Even with 83% Exp gain on my character, it would still take upwards of 80 more quests in spinward rise after already completeing 20+ Sooo repetitive that I feel like I give up on this game that used to be fun. I don't like playing my other 70 toons either, same situation. Get to 70, now repeat the same dungeon over and over, often times failing do to lack of player knowledge. The time/reward ratio is now so far off from the beaten path, that I can definitely keep my money in my wallet at this point. Nothing worth donating for.
Not just crying about HAMSTER, I'm a long term player here... 1.5years+ and cant see much light left at the end of the tunnel. Everyone like me who plays multiple characters, can feel the pain! Remember the learning curve of player #1? Remember how long it took to get your first bank roll? Remember the length of time it ALREADY took to complete all boons from scratch? Carpal tunnel is real, so is time with family!! Therefor I wont ever level another toon, also cannot see how any fresh player would be having fun from 0-70 1st run at it. Especially after they learn the time/reward scale VS a seasoned vets equipment.
Before mod6 I had all the newest gear sets, all toons fully updated with all boons minus last few tiamat boons. Had a blast leveling each toon! Now I got 3 back on track (Barely - Only DC doing real well) and they are fun from time to time but I hit the repeat wall with my head a few to many, especially my main.
At the point I was looking for something else to do, "oh level my last alt" and got shut down like I couldn't believe.
Exp Required more than Quadrupled
Quest Exp Only Doubles
Mob Exp Roughly The Same
MOB HP +50% ADDING EVEN MORE TIME!
Where does it end? All of that at once was a terrible idea.
GG Cryptic, fix it soon, or you may have just hit the self destruct button.
In all actuality, this puts them more in line with the MMO average. More XP required equates to more grind time which in turn means more commitment required for the game. Its part of a retention strategy and long term playability move. The problem here is that you need to have a game people care about with excellent mechanics and content, as well as maps where grinding is actually possible.
Someone took the notion that some put out there about how they missed the more interesting story driven leveling experience and somehow mistook that to mean we actually wanted to level longer, while forgetting that they have nothing interesting for leveling 61-70.
Perhaps it is a move to finally kill off the altaholics, slowly frustrate the old timers until they just give up on the alts and cash in their stuff to focus on one character. Or we give up and go elsewhere.
Perhaps it is a move to finally kill off the altaholics, slowly frustrate the old timers until they just give up on the alts and cash in their stuff to focus on one character. Or we give up and go elsewhere.
As a bone fide Altaholic I already started this process. Of course the downside for them is - who on Earth is going to bother trying out a new class now?
Perhaps it is a move to finally kill off the altaholics, slowly frustrate the old timers until they just give up on the alts and cash in their stuff to focus on one character. Or we give up and go elsewhere.
As a bone fide Altaholic I already started this process. Of course the downside for them is - who on Earth is going to bother trying out a new class now?
Exactly.. what the heck, when did a GAME NOT encourage alts.. its been shown over and over.. those who play more then one toon, has spent more in game.
Why discourage the practice? I simply cannot fathom it.
There is no way to play the game now with more then one toon, which is terribly sad, what a bad way to run a mmo.
... or what about Strongholds?
Why even bother with the next module, when building or upgrading a guild base might take as long as leveling a new character?
Sure, if you are in a full guild, with active players all around you, that might go faster - or it might just be at a "normal" pace, with everyone in a full guild working their ... off.
People who hit max level multiple times will not stay in game as long due to losing interest...if they stay in game longer they will most likely spend more ZEN...it could be looked at as a win for Cryptic cash flow wise.
I won't spend another dime until:
1. They start listening to us.
2. Prove that the game can be stable again like it was before Mod 6. No more massive lag, no more rubberbanding.
3. Fix the damn bugs.
Not very friendly to get rank 4 powers now. The older players lucked out on getting easier ways to earn them.
Use XP invocation bonus and azure enhancements. Play in team - same xp/time-efficiency as solo mode before mod 6. 75% of xp overflow reward since it was introduced were mostly perls, r4/5, peridots.
The past xp invoke bonus was deleted recently with the rework of the invoke system, therefore you have to build up your bonus again, and i think you get a lot less now...
Unless you only invoked once per day since this update, so that you could keep your previous bonus, but miss out on the new bonus and the other rewards from invoking up to 6 times per day.
Just another change, that shows how out of touch the Devs are...
As a bone fide Altaholic I already started this process. Of course the downside for them is - who on Earth is going to bother trying out a new class now?
I haven't, I still have 1 of every class plus an extra GWF and CW. I'm sitting on 4 70s and 4 at 69 (with the others close behind). I'm not even sure what to do with them because the elemental zones are horribly dull. However, I likely won't cannibalize for a 'main'.
I can't stand repetitive tasks... take rifle, disassemble, inspect and clean, reassemble, repeat. Log into server, kick off script, open monitor for status, wait for clear, kick off script to move files from repository to archive, log off server, and repeat with next. I can't stand stuff like this any more and some of it I can't avoid depending on what it is. I can avoid it in my 'fun and relaxation' time and will.
I find repetitive Weapons Tasks Relaxing, then again I am a Small Arms Repairman. My Spare Characters will get to 70 in about 3 months of invoking there is no way I am going to level them after already leveling 3 the hard way... the others will just have to wait.
I can't avoid that one for certain quals, but shooting, that is what is relaxing for me... unless it is boots on the ground in some foxhole in the backend of no where trading fire with whomever the 'insurgent of the week' is.
{D There's a sideline, "mod6: It'll make you wish you were getting shot at."
I can say for a fact, and a lot of people will likely back this, that mod6 is not THAT bad. I'd much rather be playing even mod6 elemental zones then be getting shot at. Mod6 is not going to physically kill me for real.
Easy tiger, it's a joke.
The context in which revjimjones said he missed being deployed, seemed to lend itself to a humorous quip about the situation the game is in and we are discussing here. Don't take it too seriously, I imagine no one would actually prefer being in mortal danger over playing a video game. Or, at least it would be a very small percent of people out there who would make that choice.
Easy tiger, it's a joke.
The context in which revjimjones said he missed being deployed, seemed to lend itself to a humorous quip about the situation the game is in and we are discussing here. Don't take it too seriously, I imagine no one would actually prefer being in mortal danger over playing a video game. Or, at least it would be a very small percent of people out there who would make that choice.
I didn't mean to come off as dressing you down or anything. It's an inherent problem with plain text, I just missed the levity until you stated it was meant to be a joke. I see it now, still it isn't one I would use.
It's all good.
I figured I may have unintentionally hit a nerve there and felt obliged to explain myself - I know my sense of humor can be a bit off and that definitely can fail to come across in plain text. That in mind, I didn't take your comment as being overly stern or mean - in fact, it's pretty reasonable if it were a serious comment.
Before we get too far away from it though: in all seriousness, thanks for putting yourself into real-life dangerous situations, while the rest of us are just playing at being heroes.
Since the patch my toons under 50 have gained several levels before my toons over 60 even made ONE level from invocation. Why not remove invoking exp all together if you are going to be this reckless with patches...
I'm dumbfounded. Just started taking an alt through 60-70. Was 61.5 by end of 1-60 quest line and start of Drowned Shore. Now only 63.5 at end of DS. In chat they're saying we'll only be 67-68 by end of Spinward. With 2 more levels to gain in this horrible, horrible zone - or tackling the new l.70 campaign zones at 68. This really does seem to be the end.
It's game-breaking for anyone trying to level 60-70 IMO. I have a toon stalled about halfway between 69 and 70 after several days play. She'll be staying there until the next 2 x XP event. Trying to level at 1 x XP is just soul destroying now.
It is really that easy dear Devs...
if a change is fun for players, you should patch it.
if a change is not fun for players, you should forget it, and come up with something else.
Happy players will stay around in your game(s), spend money and probably bring even more players to your game(s), that also will spend money at some point...
if you drive players away with changes, they won't spend more money, and they will warn their friend to stay away from your game(s).
I'm probably going to be among the minority, but I think leveling went too fast in general. With all the different ways to get XP (i.e. quest lines, skirmishes, dungeons, foundries, campaigns, invokes, and even PVP), players would often find themselves leveling past content. So many, non-completionists, would tend to skip areas to move on to something else that was within their level.
Which is why I'm guessing they chose to increase the amount XP required to level from 60-70. I believe their intention was to encourage players to play more of the new content instead of skipping over areas. So now, it's more rewarding XP wise to actually complete FP, DS, RR, before venturing to SR.
The problem with this, however, is that many find the new zones to boring and repetitive. I, for one, dislike the vigilance tasks. I would much rather have had more zones with quest lines similar to what was found pre-Mod 6.
Comments
1-50 freaking goes too fast, I frequently outlevel zones if I try to completely follow the story. Then BAM lvl 60 so, you'll catch up with the 1-60 content, still be 60 and head to Exceptionally Evil Vigilance quests.
Before 60 you couldn't finish the quests off before it was time to move on, now, it's the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, with very little story and MUCH harder mobs.
To be clear, I am not remotely defending this change. I'm completely disgusted with it but don't really need to rehash all of my comments made elsewhere.
I'm just saying that they did increase the XP granted by individual vigilance tasks. Roughly doubled, I thought. One of the initial criticisms of vigilance tasks was that their XP was unrewarding and it was better to do pretty much *anything* else to get from 60-70. So, the patch superficially appears to have addressed that complaint.
They simultaneously increased the XP needed to level up (not sure by how much as I have no levelling characters right now), and to gain overflow experience rewards (more than doubled). No other quests received a corresponding buff in XP granted.
This was touted in the patch notes as making it "more rewarding" to do at-level content. Because apparently the notes were written to troll us.
Basically, they made the vigilance tasks the most rewarding way to gain XP by introducing a system in which everything else is so unrewarding they're your only option, and even that's a slow crawl through mud.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The two toons I previously levelled to 70 hit SpinRise as early as possible - around L68. By the time I finished the Vigilance tasks and got my mainhand I was just about at L70. So around 2 levels for the 50-something quest I did in the zone.
This weekend - during Double XP - I levelled a third toon. I took her into SpinRise at around L67.5 and by the time I gained my mainhand I was just short of L69. That's 1.5 levels for more than 50 quests AT DOUBLE XP. Without the event I'd have maybe managed 1 level.
The real killer, though, is that 69-70 now requires a whopping 720k XP and the only place you can gt it is by redoing content you already did time and time and TIME AGAIN.
This has to be a miscalculation. Someone got their math wrong somewhere, because nobody is going to be able to stomach this much grind. Not only am I done levelling any toon past 60 now I robably won't even finish levelling the one stuck at 69 until the next Double XP event. If at all. And that means I won't be spending any cash on them.
Talk about counter-productive.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Indeed. I can't disagree there. I thought CoH was pretty decent. The parallel that I'm drawing though isn't with the game, content, or balance. More so, it's with the end result.
Not just crying about HAMSTER, I'm a long term player here... 1.5years+ and cant see much light left at the end of the tunnel. Everyone like me who plays multiple characters, can feel the pain! Remember the learning curve of player #1? Remember how long it took to get your first bank roll? Remember the length of time it ALREADY took to complete all boons from scratch? Carpal tunnel is real, so is time with family!! Therefor I wont ever level another toon, also cannot see how any fresh player would be having fun from 0-70 1st run at it. Especially after they learn the time/reward scale VS a seasoned vets equipment.
Before mod6 I had all the newest gear sets, all toons fully updated with all boons minus last few tiamat boons. Had a blast leveling each toon! Now I got 3 back on track (Barely - Only DC doing real well) and they are fun from time to time but I hit the repeat wall with my head a few to many, especially my main.
At the point I was looking for something else to do, "oh level my last alt" and got shut down like I couldn't believe.
Exp Required more than Quadrupled
Quest Exp Only Doubles
Mob Exp Roughly The Same
MOB HP +50% ADDING EVEN MORE TIME!
Where does it end? All of that at once was a terrible idea.
GG Cryptic, fix it soon, or you may have just hit the self destruct button.
Someone took the notion that some put out there about how they missed the more interesting story driven leveling experience and somehow mistook that to mean we actually wanted to level longer, while forgetting that they have nothing interesting for leveling 61-70.
Perhaps it is a move to finally kill off the altaholics, slowly frustrate the old timers until they just give up on the alts and cash in their stuff to focus on one character. Or we give up and go elsewhere.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Exactly.. what the heck, when did a GAME NOT encourage alts.. its been shown over and over.. those who play more then one toon, has spent more in game.
Why discourage the practice? I simply cannot fathom it.
There is no way to play the game now with more then one toon, which is terribly sad, what a bad way to run a mmo.
Why even bother with the next module, when building or upgrading a guild base might take as long as leveling a new character?
Sure, if you are in a full guild, with active players all around you, that might go faster - or it might just be at a "normal" pace, with everyone in a full guild working their ... off.
They should rethink their current course fast...
I won't spend another dime until:
1. They start listening to us.
2. Prove that the game can be stable again like it was before Mod 6. No more massive lag, no more rubberbanding.
3. Fix the damn bugs.
— (The unwritten rule)
Unless you only invoked once per day since this update, so that you could keep your previous bonus, but miss out on the new bonus and the other rewards from invoking up to 6 times per day.
Just another change, that shows how out of touch the Devs are...
I am just here to watch the game die. Yeah, I am a misantropic guy
I haven't, I still have 1 of every class plus an extra GWF and CW. I'm sitting on 4 70s and 4 at 69 (with the others close behind). I'm not even sure what to do with them because the elemental zones are horribly dull. However, I likely won't cannibalize for a 'main'.
I can't stand repetitive tasks... take rifle, disassemble, inspect and clean, reassemble, repeat. Log into server, kick off script, open monitor for status, wait for clear, kick off script to move files from repository to archive, log off server, and repeat with next. I can't stand stuff like this any more and some of it I can't avoid depending on what it is. I can avoid it in my 'fun and relaxation' time and will.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
I can't avoid that one for certain quals, but shooting, that is what is relaxing for me... unless it is boots on the ground in some foxhole in the backend of no where trading fire with whomever the 'insurgent of the week' is.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
That's what my second hat says, I really don't understand you all some times.
I can say for a fact, and a lot of people will likely back this, that mod6 is not THAT bad. I'd much rather be playing even mod6 elemental zones then be getting shot at. Mod6 is not going to physically kill me for real.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
The context in which revjimjones said he missed being deployed, seemed to lend itself to a humorous quip about the situation the game is in and we are discussing here. Don't take it too seriously, I imagine no one would actually prefer being in mortal danger over playing a video game. Or, at least it would be a very small percent of people out there who would make that choice.
I didn't mean to come off as dressing you down or anything. It's an inherent problem with plain text, I just missed the levity until you stated it was meant to be a joke. I see it now, still it isn't one I would use.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
I figured I may have unintentionally hit a nerve there and felt obliged to explain myself - I know my sense of humor can be a bit off and that definitely can fail to come across in plain text. That in mind, I didn't take your comment as being overly stern or mean - in fact, it's pretty reasonable if it were a serious comment.
Before we get too far away from it though: in all seriousness, thanks for putting yourself into real-life dangerous situations, while the rest of us are just playing at being heroes.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
if a change is fun for players, you should patch it.
if a change is not fun for players, you should forget it, and come up with something else.
Happy players will stay around in your game(s), spend money and probably bring even more players to your game(s), that also will spend money at some point...
if you drive players away with changes, they won't spend more money, and they will warn their friend to stay away from your game(s).
At this task they doing a great job.
Which is why I'm guessing they chose to increase the amount XP required to level from 60-70. I believe their intention was to encourage players to play more of the new content instead of skipping over areas. So now, it's more rewarding XP wise to actually complete FP, DS, RR, before venturing to SR.
The problem with this, however, is that many find the new zones to boring and repetitive. I, for one, dislike the vigilance tasks. I would much rather have had more zones with quest lines similar to what was found pre-Mod 6.