Bondings/Enchants/Economy:

I keep seeing ideas like, getting rid of bondings and making that bonus just there.... no difficult choices on artifact sets. get it all with no conflict in choice...

The game has already been simplified GREATLY and greatly changed, and I'm seeing talk about simplifying it even more. This is concerning. Gamers don't like change. Complexity is what gives a game like this legs. A good amount of people left the game before because of Change- Simplification...

Also the economy is at stake here. In the past this game had been very cautious to make changes because of the economy. People don't like seeing their investments turned to mush. Having trade in vendors just makes it worse imo. So you get rid of bondings. People have spent between 1.5 mil each and 2.2 mil each on these, many have spent real cash, so outrage. Cryptic says yeah ok trade in store. So that means the many thousands of bondings turn into empowereds and radiants, which in turn decreases their value on the market, because supply /demand. End result, now we have yet another worthless market. And the newer players you're trying to hook in don't have to work very hard so have little investment in the game to keep them here.


Superstore:


The superstore idea also will basically kill the economy. RNG is part of the system that keeps people logging in every day. I agree we have too many stores and too many currencies but combining everything into one store takes away flavor. and given how everything funnels into this store will make a huge dent in supply demand. even if it's all bound to account (which is also taking away value from what we already have) the demand has just crashed for things on the market already. those same new players you want to give things to all of a sudden can't make any ad on anything because it's all valueless. higher values are good for everyone.

Just update some of these other stores. I personally like the many stores. I still strongly dislike changing vip in anyway. The backlash for that from the player base will be considerable.

Earlier someone had detailed the types of players in this game. People here to play the economy are a huge part of the player base. When you start simplifying thing and changing things to the extent mentioned, you end up killing markets that many have invested in heavily already. As well as taking away something to grind for.

There is a lot of catch up for the new player but when you start taking on things like bondings you're basically making the game no work. no investment. I think that's bad for the long term health of the game. before doing things that drastic isn't it better to educate first? That's the real problem.

I would like to see more complexity added. Not more simplification. What is needed is education as to how to use this system. the reason people have a problem is because you do need to come to the forums to learn about basics of upgrading rather than it being taught in the game cohesively.

The game overall doesn't need the drastic ground up changes you're talking about in this area. it needs some updating.

Masterwork

Masterwork is fine. it just needs to be kept up to date with gear that has a place in the game strategically. Making one mastercraft toon per account will be met with outrage. people have spent time and money on upgrading mw on more than one toon. I want a universal tool box but that's it. Crafting is fine. The way it's set up is fine. Having a little streamlining, as sharp mentioned in the number of clicks needed would be awesome.. but as a whole I just needs to be kept up to date, not a rework.
There is also room in this economy for master crafting for the newbie but it's been neglected so you're not seeing that right now. Normally new players can make quite a bit selling to mastercrafters. The balance needs to be restored, not bulldozed into oblivion. The economy DOES work as it is. People whine about it because it takes work but that is what keeps them in the game and that is also what makes them open their wallets.




The Economy is a balance that needs to be kept. Like someone was mentioning people play the game in different ways. in the last few alliances i've been in the focus is all about end game and playing the economy. I really hope you keep site of that. it's important to most of us.
People need to earn what they have, and it needs to be hard won so they feel accomplished over it. The problem that I do think needs to be addressed is how to make it seem like that feeling of hard won accomplishment can be not yanked away from the player so it feels worthwhile to chase, while keeping the circle spinning.

Enchantments Stats
I like the way enchantments are and I don't think it should be simplified the way they are upgraded. I'd like to see more complexity added to upgrading them in away that adds some value back to RP. I'd like to feel like there was some consideration for keeping value in the items and adding value to items. I think the benefit areas are fine as they are. Just explain to the new people how to use them. The only thing that needs change is more il from comp gear as it's such an important part of build.

Drastically changing anything as important as this is going to alienate most of us. This is a sledgehammer, when all it needs is a gentle boars hair brush.. Honestly reading thru this, if this is what the game is going to become I don't think it sounds like fun at all. Right now this game has a lot of flavor although less than it had a year ago. I'm seeing vanilla here going forward. all uniqueness.. gone. All quirks gone. all complexity just gone. That's not the game I want to play.

I loved the neverwinter of pre mod 15. I loved the neverwinter of pre mod 12 even more than that. the complexity and the varied choices of how to play the toon and the work required to get there are what has kept me around. As it's been simplified I become less and less invested. I miss being able to play as buffing support. I miss not needing healers. I miss lifesteal. I miss the complexity in artifact upgrades. I miss the choice in good artifacts. I miss the complexity in upgrading enchantments. I miss the value rp and enchantments used to have. I miss variety in enchantments I could choose to use. I miss being able to use the same enchantments on my toon as on my comp. I miss all the various paths on my toon and the interesting boon trees and that the statroll actually mattered.. I'm sure there are other things I miss too that I'm forgetting.

Mod 16 was a disaster for so many reasons but the biggest reason of all was too much change to a game we all loved for who it was. We didn't want it to be another game. All I'm getting from this proposal is mod 16 redux.

snipped for size
Comprehensively revamp the entire rewards and progression system in game



2. Create "Super Store"
the "Super Store" (Knox's Armory?) would have all the items available on the Wondrous Bazaar, Tarmalune Trade Bar Store, Invoking Stores (getting rid of the RNG boxes from invoking in favor of currency), legacy campaign store, legacy seals stores, some items you can only get currently from lock boxes, and of course keys for the gamblers.



Chris

I don't know that it's as bad as all that. A lot of what I'm seeing with respect to horizontal progression suggests to me that we might be seeing more choices and more complexity, not less. To me the simplification appears to be centering around the mechanics of how we get to those choices, such as separating bonuses and enchantments from gear, but it looks like maybe, just maybe, we might wind up with more choices for our builds rather than less. I think it will come down to what bonuses, boons, etc. we are given at the end of this process.

We've all lost a lot. I've lost three distinct playstyles that I really enjoyed (see my version of War and Peace on page 11 for a rundown). I've lost dungeon side areas that I really enjoyed, and the kicker, I lost **the Foundry**. Take a look at the videos I posted of my Foundry quests in the Foundry forum to see just how much I lost there. Those represent hundreds of hours into a pure labor of love for me, and now they've gone poof. I even lost the account-wide rewards that I *earned* through my Foundry efforts. We've all suffered greatly and to some degree I'm still bitter about some of those things.

I'm hoping against hope that these changes will *recover* some of what we lost, even if the core of what we enjoyed comes back in a different form. I don't think it's enough to say, "let's not have any more changes because we got screwed so many times before", though believe me, I fully understand the sentiment. I don't blame you one bit for feeling that way -- goodness knows there is ample reason for being concerned. Like you, I've been around here a long time, since January 2014. I've learned that the words of specific people at Cryptic are to be taken with a very large grain of salt. I'm hoping it will be different this time.

As for this topic, I think what we need is more focused discussion, and as ideas get distilled and boiled down maybe we can be sure to have an impact that will leave us satisfied. The real question for me is, will the devs continue to allow us to have that impact? Heck, I've been lobbying for FIVE LONG YEARS to get dungeon side areas unblocked to no avail, so I know what it feels like to seemingly be talking to a wall. I think what we need to do is make it clear that we expect to have agency in how the game evolves, as we are the customers.

Feedback Overview

Mid game rewards and progression as it relates to campaigns and boons.

Feedback Goal

To discuss how progression and rewards are experienced in the mid game and provide ideas for improving both experiences.

Feedback Functionality

From a Mid game perspective time gating and the lack of a clear path to follow when approaching campaigns leads to players becoming confused, lost and bored with content. If a new player has 8 - 12 hours to spend playing over a weekend allow them to spend that time productively. This will allow them to progress along one path instead of starting several areas because they are waiting for time gates.

Campaign rewards are often years out of date and have no purpose in the current game, BUT there is often no way for the new player to tell that those rewards are outdated until after they have wasted hours grinding them out. I don't even want to think about the number of times I have had to tell new players to ignore all of the side quests for weapons and armor in the early campaigns. Not only this though, due to the changes in MOD 16 the boons you earn from each of these areas equate to ~ 1% of overall stats in any given area and contribute very little to your overall build. So now we have to answer the question of whether or not it is even worth doing the campaigns at all.

Suggestions:

1. Boons need to mean something since there is a considerable grind involved. If the developers do not want to give more stats then use boons as a way to make unique builds in the spirit of pre MOD 16 but better. There have been many suggestions along this line in this CDP.
2. Time gating needs to be removed from campaigns. An argument can be made to keep time gating for the most current MOD, but the early game and legacy campaigns should be able to be completed without artificial hindrances. Let me grind if I want to in order to complete a campaign quickly.
3. The many weapon and armor sets available through early campaigns could be made relevant again, but this would require constant updating which is not feasible. Instead of updating all of these items for each MOD maybe they could be used in Master crafting recipes to make higher tier weapons and armor that is entry level for current content. Maybe make it better than, or on par with the free gear given in Barovia and Undermountain? This way only the stats of the crafted gear needs to be adjusted for new content and new players have something to work for instead of getting the gear for free. If this is not feasible then maybe remove the grind associated with the gear and make it transmutes? Maybe remove it altogether and replace it with tokens or items that can be traded for current gear or items in the Superstore mentioned in the VIP CDP.

Time gates = No fun and hinder progression. Endless grind for outdated items = No Fun and cheapens rewards. Boons that have little or no impact on class builds and contribute ~ 1% to your overall stats = No Fun and useless in the current state of the game.

Risks & Concerns

Removing time gating may allow for unforeseen bottlenecks in content. Players may not be inclined to spend zen on completion tokens on their first character.

Updating or changing rewards in campaign areas would be labor intensive and may have an adverse effect on the games economy.

Changes to boons may make the game more complex and may allow for "bad" choices to be made leading to broken or inefficient builds.

We've talked about the current status quo in this and the previous cdp, they [ToMM runners] control the markets, and who gains access to group content by setting certain constraints on who they will invite; There are very few people doing "training" runs. It benefits the current status quo to limit the number of people running the latest content so they can further control the market.

I think what you describe is a side-effect of the rather bad decision, to make a mod with a dungeon that can only be completed by a very small percentage of the playerbase.

How I would like to see this resolved (already proposed by other players):
make three tiers of the dungeon: Mortal, Ascending, Immortal (with the pun, that most deaths would occur in the immortal tier)

This has several advantages:
- players that love a challenge can have it
- casual players can run the less challenging version, but will learn the basic mechanics so that they have a path towards the higher difficulty levels (and if they are up to a real challenge, they can have it)

Rewards will have to be tier'ed as well.
One can argue about the percentages.
If we want a comparably large gap between bis and casuals it could be 80% -> 90% ->100%
If we want more convergence, 90% -> 95% -> 100%
Having the lowest tier less than 80% probably would not be a good idea, because then the dungeon of the last mod would provide better rewards, which is not really intended for a new mod.

And this system is not very transparent to a new player.
I would like to see an easily obtainable ‘base’ power, that incorporates all of the above and is attained and explained throughout your levelling experience. The rest (top percentages) are then subject to the grind. (The fact that a player knows to use an augment or not, should not have been left up to veterans/guildies to explain…) (And yes, I still feel the effect of an augment, and as a result your bonding runestones, and companion gear/runestones is way too powerful. And counterintuitive to ‘you’ being the hero in this story.. and not your bulette pup, polar bear cub or deepcrow hatchling.)
I’ve only been playing 6 months myself, and truly, without veterans taking me by the hand and explaining all these places to look… I’d still be lost. And tbh I still am sometimes, just so much complexity in the system.

While the rest of @myrddyn#6504 s post is imo definitly worth a read too, I want to point this out:
I enjoy the companion system we have now, and I enjoy the importance of it, however: It really is tough to understand for new players. What is an augment? And which companions are? I send them a link to rainers wiki because, how often can you talk about that? Then they are confused by the very extensive wiki ... This is something the game HAS to explain. How companions work, how the new slots work, that you have to pay attention what type the companion is because you only have so many offense slots... This is, I feel, not self-explanatory. How do stats transfer, what are bonding runestones? Sure: read the tooltips, hover over it, yeah, I know. But it is difficult to explain to people that do not have the funds to buy companions and runestones, that this is the first thing they should invest into. I know that there is some sort of bolster-explanation, but I know that I was hella confused on preview the first time. It is great once you get to know it (and have a few options in your comp inventory) but until you get there: Wtf are those vets talking about?? Why do I have to get a metallic sort of dog that looks weird?? Where does that even come from? (Buy the box, not the bulette pup.. Buy it at epic, not green... The upgrading process is a bit less transparent now than in the old system simply because you have to call the comp you want to upgrade, level it specifically, upgrade it, change back to your summoned comp... Also: Some comps you get as active, only few as summoned. If I have to explain the difference in Energon and Bulette as summoned again..

Thanks for your reply Fabricant. I appreciate it. I agree.
Chris