Isn't it a bit ironic to choose the power you think is best, and to then claim that you have no choice?
Isn't it even more ironic when you're surrounded by people who chose something else, and yet they don't find the game even remotely unplayable?
What's odd is that among most people I know who "power build" in this game resurgence is not considered anywhere near the best for self healing for a number of reasons. Seeing someone say that we're forced to use the best, and then list Resurgence, was just odd but shows clearly that "best" is subjective...a recurring theme around here.
A "choice" between three powers where only one of them does what I need it to do (a big heal when I hit the button) is not really a choice at all. If you need a car that goes 50 MPH and you're offered the choice between a car that goes 50 MPH, a car with no wheels, and a car with no engine, then would you really say you have a choice?
You keep using the word "need" when what you really mean is "want", and they are not equivalent terms.
I guess that so many people are so focused on one item on my giant list of things that I thought (key words: I THOUGHT) CoH did better than CO (and apparently deliberately misunderstanding that one item to be solely about heals instead of about character building and character playstyle) that all the other items on my list are okay?
Sure, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't have singled that thing out if I had a problem with others.
A "choice" between three powers where only one of them does what I need it to do (a big heal when I hit the button) is not really a choice at all. If you need a car that goes 50 MPH and you're offered the choice between a car that goes 50 MPH, a car with no wheels, and a car with no engine, then would you really say you have a choice?
I guess that so many people are so focused on one item on my giant list of things that I thought (key words: I THOUGHT) CoH did better than CO (and apparently deliberately misunderstanding that one item to be solely about heals instead of about character building and character playstyle) that all the other items on my list are okay?
I skipped a bit of this thread so I've only been going by replies to your post. But your example is making the comparison between a "best build" character (50 mph car) and a character with no powers and a broken energy builder.
I've been playing the game since launch and have never felt the need for making an ultimate build. Saying that there's no other choice isn't fact, it's opinion and personal play style.
A "choice" between three powers where only one of them does what I need it to do (a big heal when I hit the button) is not really a choice at all.
So wait You're saying that if ALL THREE POWERS DID THE SAME THING i.e. give a big heal that that would give you more of a CHOICE than THREE POWERS THAT DO DIFFERENT THINGS?
I'm so happy right now I might just burst out into a freakin' pony musical
Can you confirm this (some type of link to a public statement)? Because, yes, this is exactly the rumor I was referring to.
Hmmm...gonna be some work to find...Matt Millar had stated as much. Sadly all I can really find now is an article/interview on MMORPG.
As for player numbers. 2008 CoH had 124,000+ subs. Released info. If CO had that many players, don't you think it would've been stated by Cryptic? Or do you believe their marketing wouldn't jump on the "More players than that other superhero mmo!"
Hey I tried to keep it from happening... but apparently what I used wasn't strong enough...
So... it's come to this >:|
Go... Pizza! I choose you!
Pizza? ARE YOU INSANE? The arguments over toppings will surely burn the forum server's entire colo site to the ground!
Besides, that's not a Hawai'ian pie.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
I've been playing the game since launch and have never felt the need for making an ultimate build. Saying that there's no other choice isn't fact, it's opinion and personal play style.
agreed.
Needing specific powers only comes into play in pvp. This game is so ez you can get away with just about any build in pve.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I've been playing the game since launch and have never felt the need for making an ultimate build. Saying that there's no other choice isn't fact, it's opinion and personal play style.
It's not even opinion, it's pure personal play style. Hey, I had a little trouble getting a handle on the heal over time stuff when I started out, but I learned how to use it as I went along and it works just fine. It doesn't work exactly the same as the big burst of heal, but it's not meant to. You certainly don't wait until you're almost down like you would with a burst. It simply works differently and you have to...ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
Oh, you're talking about pvp? Well there's your problem
So PvP isn't part of the game now?
Let's look outside PvP.
Complaints about how offensive passives were getting to defensive passive levels of defense, making players feel their "tank" build wasn't being tanky.
Personally, in a superhero mmo, I think the idea of the holy trinity is a joke to begin with.
If CO had that many players, don't you think it would've been stated by Cryptic? Or do you believe their marketing wouldn't jump on the "More players than that other superhero mmo!"
Honestly, no. I say that because I've never seen much marketing about this game not even back in '09. Lack of marketing has been a fairly long standing player gripe.
Hmmm...gonna be some work to find...Matt Millar had stated as much. Sadly all I can really find now is an article/interview on MMORPG.
See, that's the thing. Back then and for the past year, I've heard "Well, Matt said" and have asked the same thing I asked you. Never had anything come up. Still has to be qualified as rumor.
I do remember an article on MMORPG, but it was NCSoft denying that it was profitable. Again, it depends on if you trust them to tell the truth or not.
As for player numbers. 2008 CoH had 124,000+ subs. Released info. If CO had that many players, don't you think it would've been stated by Cryptic? Or do you believe their marketing wouldn't jump on the "More players than that other superhero mmo!"
Popularity and sales do not equal quality or "better". That's the whole point, there isn't a "better". CO did some things better and CoX did some things better. It's not really a quality judgement that can be made overall, just what one prefers.
Complaints about how offensive passives were getting to defensive passive levels of defense, making players feel their "tank" build wasn't being tanky.
Personally, in a superhero mmo, I think the idea of the holy trinity is a joke to begin with.
Go look in pvp... you'll see how much a part of the game it is :P
And hey, if you can find someone in this thread supporting the holy trinity, you go ahead and talk to them about it. It's not me btw... but good luck finding them, most of us around here are here because we don't like the trinity one bit
What I am curious about is what your sudden attack on the holy trinity (that no one had brought up or was defending) has to do with the topic of viable choices
So wait You're saying that if ALL THREE POWERS DID THE SAME THING i.e. give a big heal that that would give you more of a CHOICE than THREE POWERS THAT DO DIFFERENT THINGS?
Yup! If there were different equally-useful heals with different themes (and possibly different secondary effects), then that would be more of a choice. A big heal that boosts my regen for a time, or a big heal that boosts my Energy building, or a big heal that improves my accuracy, or my dodge rate, and so on and so forth.
For example, in CoH, Energize gave a big heal, improved my in-combat regeneration, caused my powers to use less Stamina (Energy) for a time. Healing Flames gave a big heal and Toxic Damage resistance for a full minute, and had a shorter cooldown than most other heals. Dark Regeneration gave a very big heal and damaged all enemies around me (but enemies had to be nearby for it to work). Dull Pain gave a very big heal and doubled your max HP for two full minutes, but had a longer cooldown than most.
Any one of those heals is effectively equivalent for me, because they all have the same primary purpose (a big heal), while having different secondary purposes (damage resistance, increased regen, etc). THAT is what I consider a choice, a choice between several options that will work equally well (but with tradeoffs in their other effects), not between one option that works and two that don't.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
Yup! If there were different equally-useful heals with different themes (and possibly different secondary effects), then that would be more of a choice. A big heal that boosts my regen for a time, or a big heal that boosts my Energy building, or a big heal that improves my accuracy, or my dodge rate, and so on and so forth.
For example, in CoH, Energize gave a big heal, improved my in-combat regeneration, caused my powers to use less Stamina (Energy) for a time. Healing Flames gave a big heal and Toxic Damage resistance for a full minute, and had a shorter cooldown than most other heals. Dark Regeneration gave a very big heal and damaged all enemies around me (but enemies had to be nearby for it to work). Dull Pain gave a very big heal and doubled your max HP for two full minutes, but had a longer cooldown than most.
Any one of those heals is effectively equivalent for me, because they all have the same primary purpose (a big heal), while having different secondary purposes (damage resistance, increased regen, etc). THAT is what I consider a choice, a choice between several options that will work equally well (but with tradeoffs in their other effects), not between one option that works and two that don't.
Personally, in a superhero mmo, I think the idea of the holy trinity is a joke to begin with.
Now THAT I will agree with you on (of course, it isn't really any more necessary here than it was at CoX), especially with the (to me) very unfamiliar aggro rules. :biggrin:
I do very much miss my Taunt button.
Hmmm...gonna be some work to find...Matt Millar had stated as much. Sadly all I can really find now is an article/interview on MMORPG.
As for player numbers. 2008 CoH had 124,000+ subs. Released info. If CO had that many players, don't you think it would've been stated by Cryptic? Or do you believe their marketing wouldn't jump on the "More players than that other superhero mmo!"
Number of subscriptions doesn't matter (in this case). You don't know what their other costs are. Every subscription doesn't just add to the profit margin. If their profit was so minuscule that it wasn't worth mentioning, then "we were still making a profit" is a bit misleading.
If you don't know all of the facts, you're better off not bringing it up.
Yeah. If NCSoft's other games are turning out X profits and CoH was turning out X/100 profits... it's sensible to shut CoH down and focus efforts on the games that actually make decent money.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Thing is though, just a few months earlier, NCSoft had mismanaged its money on advertising their newer, shinier game and lost millions on that ****up. So when they shut down CoH, it seemed like they were cutting it to cover their losses on their other games, which is just asinine.
See, that's the thing. Back then and for the past year, I've heard "Well, Matt said" and have asked the same thing I asked you. Never had anything come up. Still has to be qualified as rumor.
I do remember an article on MMORPG, but it was NCSoft denying that it was profitable. Again, it depends on if you trust them to tell the truth or not.
It was Paragon Studios saying it was as well. As for my take on it, that was NCSoft the same talk my own company likes to give.
"We made 300million pure profit last year! But we can't give you the bonus because it's not 301 million and still give the company heads 20million bonuses."
Popularity and sales do not equal quality or "better". That's the whole point, there isn't a "better". CO did some things better and CoX did some things better. It's not really a quality judgement that can be made overall, just what one prefers.
I agree that CoH and CO did some things better and some things worse. Always thought that, even when CoH was up and running and even said so on the CoH forums.
I do disagree on popularity and sales not being factors in being better. And some of what people seem to say CO did better, I never experienced in CoH once I got some levels, which makes me think some of those stating CO is so much better, never really played CoH. Seriously, powers on cooldown? Every build I made never used Brawl as a filler and never waited on a "superpower" attack to come off of cooldown, as I always had one available.
That just sounds like someone who logged in, played a couple of low levels and left.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in Champions (well, pre-November 2012) thinks way otherwise. CoH wasn't the beautiful snowflake you guys make it out to be. You liked it. Great. But it wasn't the best game ever. Personally I thought it was terrible and jumped ship at the first sign of Champions. What's that say about City?
It says that everyone's got a different experience with different games. Quit trying to come in here and say that factually, City was a better game. We're all tired of hearing it.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in CoH who tried CO, and jumped ship back to CoH thought otherwise.
See what I did there?
Me? I've had an LTS here for a good long while (I've played the game off and on since friends and family). So never really needed to buy a whole lot.
I preferred to go and PAY subs on TWO CoH accounts (for multiple years) and play there.
You're using your preference as if were proof. It isn't. It's just your preference.
Just as my argument is MY preference.
You like the game style/play, look, and mechanics here better than CoH. You don't mind the limited world it exists in.
I found the game style/play in CoH more enjoyable, didn't mind the look (still not really enamored of "City of Play-doh" here), and I found the mechanics in CoH more straightforward (then again, they had a build planner that actually gave you real numbers instead of just being a data-less plan-o-gram, so that helps in understanding the system a bit). And CoH just flat out had WAY more stuff you could do. Especially for end-game (even before Incarnates).
CO had the opportunity to expand the amount of content. And, every now and again, they'd take a stab at it. But they've repeatedly petered out and gone back to activities designed to simply juice-press cash out of players and temp events.
Also, CoH made me feel Super.
CO...doesn't. More than 5-6 mobs on a tank with 12,000 HP and I can still get spattered.
There are two reasons I'm here:
I have a once-a-week event with several regulars (not that this game makes teaming easy or enjoyable).
DCUO sucks worse in terms of UI and gameplay.
And please don't take offense at the second. The differences between CoH and CO are cosmetic in a lot of ways (though in others they're wildly different). So they're just familiar enough that I can cope. I just don't necessarily always LIKE the difference.
DCUO is just a steaming pile. It looks nice up front. But is so limited and jacked up it's not even funny. The problem it has in common with CO is this: Console support.
Basically everything in both games has been jacked around so that both games could (eventually) be released on a console. Cryptic got lucky and missed that iceberg. But some of the nasty from the console crud is still embedded in the game's DNA. DCUO steamed straight into the iceberg and went down with all hands (and a giant foot from the heavens making sure they stayed down).
It was Paragon Studios saying it was as well. As for my take on it, that was NCSoft the same talk my own company likes to give.
"We made 300million pure profit last year! But we can't give you the bonus because it's not 301 million and still give the company heads 20million bonuses."
I agree that CoH and CO did some things better and some things worse. Always thought that, even when CoH was up and running and even said so on the CoH forums.
I do disagree on popularity and sales not being factors in being better. And some of what people seem to say CO did better, I never experienced in CoH once I got some levels, which makes me think some of those stating CO is so much better, never really played CoH. Seriously, powers on cooldown? Every build I made never used Brawl as a filler and never waited on a "superpower" attack to come off of cooldown, as I always had one available.
That just sounds like someone who logged in, played a couple of low levels and left.
Did you meant this interview by @Maressa aka Meticulous Meta?
Thanks, Baroness. This is the closest I found there (it's War Witch, though, not Posi). Only time the word profit appears in the article, anyway.
Melissa: Telling them thank you was the biggest thing. When I found out about the closure of the studio and the impending end of City of Heroes, I was frustrated because it didn?t have to be. We weren?t World of ********, but we were a profitable game and we were, as a studio, working on some projects that were really exciting.
She might have been right. On the other hand, it may have been a slight hyperbole in passing, as casual as the mention is. It probably was one of those "profitable, but just barely" things.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in CoH who tried CO, and jumped ship back to CoH thought otherwise.
See what I did there?
Repeated what Biff said and acted like you were making a good point even though you completely missed the valid point that Biff was making? Yeah I saw that... don't worry, other people will too.
You should check some of the posts between Biffs post and now... lots of people making the same mistake you just made, and lots of people pointing out that mistake. Got a bit too eager to play hero didn't you?
I'm hoping you're misremembering, because if he said that, it's likely a pantload.
I actually remember that quote. There was even a thread on the CoH boards before shutdown that linked to it. For the life of me, though, I can't remember where the **** it was.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in CoH who tried CO, and jumped ship back to CoH thought otherwise.
See what I did there?
Yes, but go to the CoH forums and count how many times I posted about Champs being better. That's the difference.
And that's not using preference as proof. Back then, everyone had the choice whether to play Champs, City, or both. Why would the population of the game, given the choice, be playing here if they thought City was better? If you can come up with a good reason I'll listen, but I can't come up with one.
I found the game style/play in CoH more enjoyable, didn't mind the look (still not really enamored of "City of Play-doh" here), and I found the mechanics in CoH more straightforward (then again, they had a build planner that actually gave you real numbers instead of just being a data-less plan-o-gram, so that helps in understanding the system a bit). And CoH just flat out had WAY more stuff you could do. Especially for end-game (even before Incarnates).
And here's a good example of why I don't have a problem with the things you say about the games. You talk about the game obviously stating that it's your preference, and not flat-out saying that City is better. You might think that, but stating it as your opinion goes a long way.
"Rumor's" no longer rumor, now is it? Good work Baroness for finally putting that matter to rest.
Still doesn't make it fact. We have one guy who was "in the know" saying the game was profitable, and we have the company that owned them saying that it wasn't.
It's obvious who you want to believe, but as someone that doesn't care if the game was profitable or not when it was shut down, it looks to me like there's no proof, so I wouldn't base any arguments around that.
... right. My bad. I thought we were having an intelligent debate over what constitutes "choice" and "variety", and why I felt that CO was sometimes lacking in that aspect, but rather it's just you mocking me for not just breaking down and immedaitely agreeing with everything you say.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
Yes, but go to the CoH forums and count how many times I posted about Champs being better. That's the difference.
And that's not using preference as proof. Back then, everyone had the choice whether to play Champs, City, or both. Why would the population of the game, given the choice, be playing here if they thought City was better? If you can come up with a good reason I'll listen, but I can't come up with one.
Actually, quite a few of your posts have reminded me of posters on the CoH forums who did exactly that. So much in fact, that I was wondering if you were one of them.
Still doesn't make it fact. We have one guy who was "in the know" saying the game was profitable, and we have the company that owned them saying that it wasn't.
It's obvious who you want to believe, but as someone that doesn't care if the game was profitable or not when it was shut down, it looks to me like there's no proof, so I wouldn't base any arguments around that.
I wouldn't trust anything NCSoft the Gamekiller claimed as fact, considering their track record. Show me one other company that's shut down as many MMOs as they have.
Still doesn't make it fact. We have one guy who was "in the know" saying the game was profitable, and we have the company that owned them saying that it wasn't.
It's obvious who you want to believe, but as someone that doesn't care if the game was profitable or not when it was shut down, it looks to me like there's no proof, so I wouldn't base any arguments around that.
So we have a studio head saying "It was profitable" and a company head saying it wasn't in a manner that can easily be seen as company "talk". I work for a company that outright said, we made 300million profit last year.
Same company tells us every day, we're losing money, need to cut costs, lay off employees. Yup...trust those company heads!
Matrix Online was a legitimate flop in every way though.
The point of the statement was CoH was closed down while still making a good profit. The other games being shut down...bleeding money.
Do I think CoH would one day become a MMO that bled money? Yup! Said so on the CoH forums. But then, I think that of every MMO...some will just get there sooner than others.
The point of the statement was CoH was closed down while still making a good profit. The other games being shut down...bleeding money.
Do I think CoH would one day become a MMO that bled money? Yup! Said so on the CoH forums. But then, I think that of every MMO...some will just get there sooner than others.
I'd argue that it wasn't "good" enough, but it's evident your mind was made up about this subject a while ago so there's no point.
Actually, quite a few of your posts have reminded me of posters on the CoH forums who did exactly that. So much in fact, that I was wondering if you were one of them.
Well who'd have thought that a guy that has liked this game for four years would post about Champs in a positive light. Honestly, I never bring up City just to talk trash about it. What's the point? And I hope this isn't a "Well, you Champs people came to our forums to talk trash about it, so we should do the same" argument.
When I leave a game, I leave the forums, too. You'd find zero posts of mine in there talking about Champions.
So we have a studio head saying "It was profitable" and a company head saying it wasn't in a manner that can easily be seen as company "talk". I work for a company that outright said, we made 300million profit last year.
Same company tells us every day, we're losing money, need to cut costs, lay off employees. Yup...trust those company heads!
Regardless. Unless you can show proof about your fact then it's just hearsay. It's "company talk" on both sides, as far as I'm concerned.
I'm still debating whether I'll kick $10 to them. I enjoyed CoX, but I came to CO and stayed here for a reason.
At this point the game is still very far away. Once the game is closer to release, assuming it even gets that far, I'll likely hope for beta and go from there... or get impressions from a couple friends who have already paid $10 for eventual beta access. Even though it's supposed to be a "spiritaul successor" of CoX I'll be judging it as a standalone product when/if the time comes.
Comments
I ain't touching that... it's got mushrooms.
PEDESTRIAN! We should be discussing falafel!
What's odd is that among most people I know who "power build" in this game resurgence is not considered anywhere near the best for self healing for a number of reasons. Seeing someone say that we're forced to use the best, and then list Resurgence, was just odd but shows clearly that "best" is subjective...a recurring theme around here.
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How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
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Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
You keep using the word "need" when what you really mean is "want", and they are not equivalent terms.
Sure, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't have singled that thing out if I had a problem with others.
I had a D&D-esque wizard with a web grenade. Web spell!
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I skipped a bit of this thread so I've only been going by replies to your post. But your example is making the comparison between a "best build" character (50 mph car) and a character with no powers and a broken energy builder.
I've been playing the game since launch and have never felt the need for making an ultimate build. Saying that there's no other choice isn't fact, it's opinion and personal play style.
So wait
I'm so happy right now I might just burst out into a freakin' pony musical
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hmmm...gonna be some work to find...Matt Millar had stated as much. Sadly all I can really find now is an article/interview on MMORPG.
As for player numbers. 2008 CoH had 124,000+ subs. Released info. If CO had that many players, don't you think it would've been stated by Cryptic? Or do you believe their marketing wouldn't jump on the "More players than that other superhero mmo!"
Pizza? ARE YOU INSANE? The arguments over toppings will surely burn the forum server's entire colo site to the ground!
Besides, that's not a Hawai'ian pie.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Needing specific powers only comes into play in pvp. This game is so ez you can get away with just about any build in pve.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
It's not even opinion, it's pure personal play style. Hey, I had a little trouble getting a handle on the heal over time stuff when I started out, but I learned how to use it as I went along and it works just fine. It doesn't work exactly the same as the big burst of heal, but it's not meant to. You certainly don't wait until you're almost down like you would with a burst. It simply works differently and you have to...ADAPT, IMPROVISE, OVERCOME!
So PvP isn't part of the game now?
Let's look outside PvP.
Complaints about how offensive passives were getting to defensive passive levels of defense, making players feel their "tank" build wasn't being tanky.
Personally, in a superhero mmo, I think the idea of the holy trinity is a joke to begin with.
Honestly, no. I say that because I've never seen much marketing about this game not even back in '09. Lack of marketing has been a fairly long standing player gripe.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
See, that's the thing. Back then and for the past year, I've heard "Well, Matt said" and have asked the same thing I asked you. Never had anything come up. Still has to be qualified as rumor.
I do remember an article on MMORPG, but it was NCSoft denying that it was profitable. Again, it depends on if you trust them to tell the truth or not.
Popularity and sales do not equal quality or "better". That's the whole point, there isn't a "better". CO did some things better and CoX did some things better. It's not really a quality judgement that can be made overall, just what one prefers.
Go look in pvp... you'll see how much a part of the game it is :P
And hey, if you can find someone in this thread supporting the holy trinity, you go ahead and talk to them about it. It's not me btw... but good luck finding them, most of us around here are here because we don't like the trinity one bit
What I am curious about is what your sudden attack on the holy trinity (that no one had brought up or was defending) has to do with the topic of viable choices
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yup! If there were different equally-useful heals with different themes (and possibly different secondary effects), then that would be more of a choice. A big heal that boosts my regen for a time, or a big heal that boosts my Energy building, or a big heal that improves my accuracy, or my dodge rate, and so on and so forth.
For example, in CoH, Energize gave a big heal, improved my in-combat regeneration, caused my powers to use less Stamina (Energy) for a time. Healing Flames gave a big heal and Toxic Damage resistance for a full minute, and had a shorter cooldown than most other heals. Dark Regeneration gave a very big heal and damaged all enemies around me (but enemies had to be nearby for it to work). Dull Pain gave a very big heal and doubled your max HP for two full minutes, but had a longer cooldown than most.
Any one of those heals is effectively equivalent for me, because they all have the same primary purpose (a big heal), while having different secondary purposes (damage resistance, increased regen, etc). THAT is what I consider a choice, a choice between several options that will work equally well (but with tradeoffs in their other effects), not between one option that works and two that don't.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
And that's why I like villains.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Now THAT I will agree with you on (of course, it isn't really any more necessary here than it was at CoX), especially with the (to me) very unfamiliar aggro rules. :biggrin:
I do very much miss my Taunt button.
Number of subscriptions doesn't matter (in this case). You don't know what their other costs are. Every subscription doesn't just add to the profit margin. If their profit was so minuscule that it wasn't worth mentioning, then "we were still making a profit" is a bit misleading.
If you don't know all of the facts, you're better off not bringing it up.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
It was Paragon Studios saying it was as well. As for my take on it, that was NCSoft the same talk my own company likes to give.
"We made 300million pure profit last year! But we can't give you the bonus because it's not 301 million and still give the company heads 20million bonuses."
I agree that CoH and CO did some things better and some things worse. Always thought that, even when CoH was up and running and even said so on the CoH forums.
I do disagree on popularity and sales not being factors in being better. And some of what people seem to say CO did better, I never experienced in CoH once I got some levels, which makes me think some of those stating CO is so much better, never really played CoH. Seriously, powers on cooldown?
That just sounds like someone who logged in, played a couple of low levels and left.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in CoH who tried CO, and jumped ship back to CoH thought otherwise.
See what I did there?
Me? I've had an LTS here for a good long while (I've played the game off and on since friends and family). So never really needed to buy a whole lot.
I preferred to go and PAY subs on TWO CoH accounts (for multiple years) and play there.
You're using your preference as if were proof. It isn't. It's just your preference.
Just as my argument is MY preference.
You like the game style/play, look, and mechanics here better than CoH. You don't mind the limited world it exists in.
I found the game style/play in CoH more enjoyable, didn't mind the look (still not really enamored of "City of Play-doh" here), and I found the mechanics in CoH more straightforward (then again, they had a build planner that actually gave you real numbers instead of just being a data-less plan-o-gram, so that helps in understanding the system a bit). And CoH just flat out had WAY more stuff you could do. Especially for end-game (even before Incarnates).
CO had the opportunity to expand the amount of content. And, every now and again, they'd take a stab at it. But they've repeatedly petered out and gone back to activities designed to simply juice-press cash out of players and temp events.
Also, CoH made me feel Super.
CO...doesn't. More than 5-6 mobs on a tank with 12,000 HP and I can still get spattered.
There are two reasons I'm here:
And please don't take offense at the second. The differences between CoH and CO are cosmetic in a lot of ways (though in others they're wildly different). So they're just familiar enough that I can cope. I just don't necessarily always LIKE the difference.
DCUO is just a steaming pile. It looks nice up front. But is so limited and jacked up it's not even funny. The problem it has in common with CO is this: Console support.
Basically everything in both games has been jacked around so that both games could (eventually) be released on a console. Cryptic got lucky and missed that iceberg. But some of the nasty from the console crud is still embedded in the game's DNA. DCUO steamed straight into the iceberg and went down with all hands (and a giant foot from the heavens making sure they stayed down).
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Did you meant this interview by @Maressa aka Meticulous Meta?
http://www.onrpg.com/articles/metas-verse-interview-with-melissa-bianco-and-matt-miller-on-city-of-heroes/
Matt Miller clearly state there that not only was profitable it was making much more money since going F2P
Melissa: Telling them thank you was the biggest thing. When I found out about the closure of the studio and the impending end of City of Heroes, I was frustrated because it didn?t have to be. We weren?t World of ********, but we were a profitable game and we were, as a studio, working on some projects that were really exciting.
She might have been right. On the other hand, it may have been a slight hyperbole in passing, as casual as the mention is. It probably was one of those "profitable, but just barely" things.
No. That wasn't it. As the line I was referring to was Matt saying "Most profitable MMO ever shut down"
Repeated what Biff said and acted like you were making a good point even though you completely missed the valid point that Biff was making? Yeah I saw that... don't worry, other people will too.
You should check some of the posts between Biffs post and now... lots of people making the same mistake you just made, and lots of people pointing out that mistake. Got a bit too eager to play hero didn't you?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm hoping you're misremembering, because if he said that, it's likely a pantload.
I actually remember that quote. There was even a thread on the CoH boards before shutdown that linked to it. For the life of me, though, I can't remember where the **** it was.
That wasn't the context. He meant out of all MMOs that were shut down, not out of all MMOs... EVER.
I'm assuming...since I really don't know...that he meant most profitable MMO being shut down...as in the time of it being shut down.
Meaning that no other mmo that was ever shut down, was that profitable at the time of shut down.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Yes, but go to the CoH forums and count how many times I posted about Champs being better. That's the difference.
And that's not using preference as proof. Back then, everyone had the choice whether to play Champs, City, or both. Why would the population of the game, given the choice, be playing here if they thought City was better? If you can come up with a good reason I'll listen, but I can't come up with one.
And here's a good example of why I don't have a problem with the things you say about the games. You talk about the game obviously stating that it's your preference, and not flat-out saying that City is better. You might think that, but stating it as your opinion goes a long way.
PFFT! Italian Beef or GTFO!
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Still doesn't make it fact. We have one guy who was "in the know" saying the game was profitable, and we have the company that owned them saying that it wasn't.
It's obvious who you want to believe, but as someone that doesn't care if the game was profitable or not when it was shut down, it looks to me like there's no proof, so I wouldn't base any arguments around that.
... right. My bad. I thought we were having an intelligent debate over what constitutes "choice" and "variety", and why I felt that CO was sometimes lacking in that aspect, but rather it's just you mocking me for not just breaking down and immedaitely agreeing with everything you say.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
And that's why I like villains.
Actually, quite a few of your posts have reminded me of posters on the CoH forums who did exactly that. So much in fact, that I was wondering if you were one of them.
I wouldn't trust anything NCSoft the Gamekiller claimed as fact, considering their track record. Show me one other company that's shut down as many MMOs as they have.
Pretty sure the 500lb gorrila MMO hasn't been shut down...ever.
Let me go double check.
Yup. Never been shut down.
When Matrix Online shut down, no one said "Yeah! This game is being profitable!"
Matrix Online was a legitimate flop in every way though.
So we have a studio head saying "It was profitable" and a company head saying it wasn't in a manner that can easily be seen as company "talk". I work for a company that outright said, we made 300million profit last year.
Same company tells us every day, we're losing money, need to cut costs, lay off employees. Yup...trust those company heads!
The point of the statement was CoH was closed down while still making a good profit. The other games being shut down...bleeding money.
Do I think CoH would one day become a MMO that bled money? Yup! Said so on the CoH forums. But then, I think that of every MMO...some will just get there sooner than others.
I'd argue that it wasn't "good" enough, but it's evident your mind was made up about this subject a while ago so there's no point.
They break down taxes, fees, and all the other stuff on the KS page.
320K
-32K for KS fees
-38K for taxes
-70K for the Unreal engine license
180K going towards development software licenses and some equipment
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Well who'd have thought that a guy that has liked this game for four years would post about Champs in a positive light. Honestly, I never bring up City just to talk trash about it. What's the point? And I hope this isn't a "Well, you Champs people came to our forums to talk trash about it, so we should do the same" argument.
When I leave a game, I leave the forums, too. You'd find zero posts of mine in there talking about Champions.
Regardless. Unless you can show proof about your fact then it's just hearsay. It's "company talk" on both sides, as far as I'm concerned.
At this point the game is still very far away. Once the game is closer to release, assuming it even gets that far, I'll likely hope for beta and go from there... or get impressions from a couple friends who have already paid $10 for eventual beta access. Even though it's supposed to be a "spiritaul successor" of CoX I'll be judging it as a standalone product when/if the time comes.