I know I'm a bit foggy (bad med day), so forgive me if I seem obtuse, but I don't think I get which way you fall with that image. It looks pretty bad@$$, but I have seen you develop an ornery streak when tested. :biggrin:
What do I think. Hmmm heres a hint on how many %$?s I give.
...Protoman? NO WAIT.. I know. Umm... Megaman X! No wait.. ummmm.... damn. I dunno.
This post is brought to you by:
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I didn't.
But you seemed to think this thread was some kind of advertisement so as the OP i took it upon my self to make it clear that that is not the case.
You seem pretty adverse to kelplankton posting here and I don't really understand why especially because every thing he said is on topic for the thread.
You're interpreting what I wrote incorrectly. If you just stop looking for something negative, then the negativity will magically disappear
update city of titans is now half ways to their goal. people such as matt miller and war witch has both pleadged. and on the 1st of next month so will I.
I know I'm a bit foggy (bad med day), so forgive me if I seem obtuse, but I don't think I get which way you fall with that image. It looks pretty bad@$$, but I have seen you develop an ornery streak when tested. :biggrin:
No I agree.
your slippin Nepht, show us how you realy feel! (with an amusing image)
...Protoman? NO WAIT.. I know. Umm... Megaman X! No wait.. ummmm.... damn. I dunno.
Zero.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
1. City of Titans is a new superhero game in development getting kickstarted. It stands to reason it would be of interest to some folks here, but some folks evidently still sting from the competition COH used to offer.
2. The game is just intended to be a scaled down MMORPG to start out. They are not going to try and attempt to build an entire AAA MMORPG on their funding. IIRC they wish to build a smaller MMORPG with the core systems in place and then expand it as they go. This should help significantly with financial concerns.
3. Speaking of finances the kickstarter actually delineates where the money is going pretty carefully. Putting 1 and 1 together means that getting the tools to make the game means that kickstarter is giving them the ability to MAKE the game. Comments made in addition to that state that this funding is intended to cover the first few months of operation IIRC, and then it's played by ear on budgeting according to how much is there.
4. Without a super crazy popular IP to market, they will not be spending rediculous amounts of money simply to pay for the IP. Nor will they have to live up to strict lore, nor will they need to make X, Y, Z stuff. No licensing fees either. Creative freedom!
5. It's inspired by COH, and they intend it to be in the spirit of COH, but they also wish to break new barriers and do things COH couldn't. So it won't be COH, but I believe they do want a familiar sort of COH feel or energy to it.
6. You should fund it. WHY? Because you need options. I've played CO enough to know how the fanbase feels about CO, and it wavers continuously. CO is a good and fun game, but push comes to shove COH was a better game overall. It was more polished, had more variety, had overall better effects (COH wins on particles and power customization for sure, CO wins on textures) and it didn't try and constantly dig into your pocketbook with every new release and a billion dropped boxes that need keys. It had a simple sub, and then a sub and a stipend that was enough to continue getting the new powersets.
Without pressure from any other relevant superhero MMORPG, what reason does CO really have to excel? People are generally unhappy with every update and that's sad. I can promise it was the opposite with most of COH updates.
7. Freeform: Freeform is the greatest strength of CO, however it is also it's biggest handicap. Freeform is in some way, shape, or form most likely related to every problem you currently have to the game. It also keeps many powers from ever being useful outside of niche builds.
Freeform also creates a lack of identity for a hero, a lack of continuity, a lack of personality. All of this is supposed to come from you, but it's hard to match having it baked into your character. If you wish to be effective many times you need to be rather ecclectic or mismatched and alot of powers that would look great together serve the same purpose and thus you would greatly gimp yourself to take them all when you could take other things.
Freeform is fun, very fun, but it is far from perfect.
I'm sure there are more things I could think of, but that's it for now. I like CO and I think it should stick around for a good long while. It's a unique example and for me personally it's fun to take the occasional spin. But to say that it has the same flexibility, teamwork capacity, beautiful particle effects, heroic feeling of facing masses of enemies, costume/power customization, thematic flair and synergy of powers, etc. That's just not fair. Both games had their weaknesses, both CO and COH, COH was just more polished with far more variety and far far far more teamwork capable...but only if you wanted it .
5. You should fund it. WHY? Because you need options. I've played CO enough to know how the fanbase feels about CO, and it wavers continuously. CO is a good and fun game, but push comes to shove COH was a better game overall. It was more polished, had more variety, had overall better effects (COH wins on particles and power customization for sure, CO wins on textures) and it didn't try and constantly dig into your pocketbook with every new release and a billion dropped boxes that need keys. It had a simple sub, and then a sub and a stipend that was enough to continue getting the new powersets.
Without pressure from any other relevant superhero MMORPG, what reason does CO really have to excel? People are generally unhappy with every update and that's sad. I can promise it was the opposite with most of COH updates.
QUOTE]
I agree with everything you just said. this 1 stood out however, why is it important, it sends a message to the big game makers. if they close down a game that was making money for no reason we wont support you, we'll make our own game.
5. You should fund it. WHY? Because you need options. I've played CO enough to know how the fanbase feels about CO, and it wavers continuously. CO is a good and fun game, but push comes to shove COH was a better game overall. It was more polished, had more variety, had overall better effects (COH wins on particles and power customization for sure, CO wins on textures) and it didn't try and constantly dig into your pocketbook with every new release and a billion dropped boxes that need keys. It had a simple sub, and then a sub and a stipend that was enough to continue getting the new powersets.
Without pressure from any other relevant superhero MMORPG, what reason does CO really have to excel? People are generally unhappy with every update and that's sad. I can promise it was the opposite with most of COH updates.
QUOTE]
I agree with everything you just said. this 1 stood out however, why is it important, it sends a message to the big game makers. if they close down a game that was making money for no reason we wont support you, we'll make our own game.
Oh I agree completely. If COT can actually pull off this upset and become a commercial success, not even a smash hit but just a commercial success, it sends an extremely strong message.
Small note: I edited out my initial opening line into something else. I felt like it was condescending and I did not wish to be so. I've played both games for over a year and like them for their strong points. My favor is on the COH side, tis true, but it's because gameplay and thematic options were not present on CO that I very much wanted. Not because of bias.
CO is a good and fun game, but push comes to shove COH was a better game overall.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in Champions (well, pre-November 2012) thinks way otherwise. CoH wasn't the beautiful snowflake you guys make it out to be. You liked it. Great. But it wasn't the best game ever. Personally I thought it was terrible and jumped ship at the first sign of Champions. What's that say about City?
It says that everyone's got a different experience with different games. Quit trying to come in here and say that factually, City was a better game. We're all tired of hearing it.
I tried playing CoH, after it went F2P. I didn't enjoy it. Here, I started off feeling like a fledgling superhero, just getting to know what I could do with my powers; there, I barely felt super at all. Too many cooldowns.
Also, the graphics weren't all that - I suspect they're being burnished in the memories of those who miss the game - and while the story might have been good, I never saw any of it (while you get exposed to bits of the CO storyline almost as soon as you leave the Tutorial).
As for this City of Titans - so far, I'm underwhelmed. I kind of hope it comes to be, in order to prod Cryptic into improving CO faster, but if I had the money, rather than throw it to their kickstarter I'd just buy the lifetime sub to CO I keep promising myself.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yawn. The entire population of active players in Champions (well, pre-November 2012) thinks way otherwise. CoH wasn't the beautiful snowflake you guys make it out to be. You liked it. Great. But it wasn't the best game ever. Personally I thought it was terrible and jumped ship at the first sign of Champions. What's that say about City?
It says that everyone's got a different experience with different games. Quit trying to come in here and say that factually, City was a better game. We're all tired of hearing it.
Yeah. People really need to quit saying a game that was still making profit when it was cancelled, is better than a game that took just one year to go from SUB to F2P.
Or just because a game that updated way more often, had more costume options, larger player base, does not mean it was a better game.
Of course, when CoH was active, there were still posts saying "Well, CoH does this or this better..." I don't know what that means, since you know, players had the option to play CoH at that time.
So basically, my question is, what do you consider makes one game better than the other, FACTUALLY?
I tried playing CoH, after it went F2P. I didn't enjoy it. Here, I started off feeling like a fledgling superhero, just getting to know what I could do with my powers; there, I barely felt super at all. Too many cooldowns.
Also, the graphics weren't all that - I suspect they're being burnished in the memories of those who miss the game - and while the story might have been good, I never saw any of it (while you get exposed to bits of the CO storyline almost as soon as you leave the Tutorial).
As for this City of Titans - so far, I'm underwhelmed. I kind of hope it comes to be, in order to prod Cryptic into improving CO faster, but if I had the money, rather than throw it to their kickstarter I'd just buy the lifetime sub to CO I keep promising myself.
Actually, I haven't found the graphics of CO to be all that better. I think what you call graphics is actually called aesthetics. Also consider that CoH was out for 4 years before CO.
And what cooldowns? o.O You know how you have to gear up here to feel super? Yeeeeaaaah...you did the same there Only differently.
Huh? I never had to gear up to feel super here. My Inferno? He throws fire. When he's waiting until his next Fireball, he still throws fire.
I made a lightning-based toon in CoH. He shot electricity. Except that even his most basic zap had a cooldown, during which I had to punch things. I didn't want to punch things, with my merely human strength, I wanted to zap them with my superhuman powers. I can do that here, from the moment my toon first leaves the Character Creator.
I dunno, maybe F2P worked differently from the sub-based version so many played, but you and I seem to remember CoH quite differently.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I bought CO in spite of the fact that it was being developed by the same studio that produced COH. When I first heard about CO, as a fan of the Champions PnP game, I bought COH and tried it out to see if it would be worthwhile to give CO a shot when it finally released. I came very close to not buying CO due to my experience of COH.
In the end I decided to follow my Champions Universe fanboy instincts and bought CO anyway. I have my fair share of concerns about CO but it has been a better game experience, for me, than COH.
Paying homage to a game you have fond memories of is one thing, but it is important to remember the bad as well parts as well.
As long as they don't make it a direct CoX clone and actually make the game their own, as well as maintain/support it. I think it could be interesting, if it becomes a carbon copy, then I think it will follow all the games that tried to be carbon copies of WoW.
The same goes for Valiance Online, if they ignore history they will be doomed to repeat it.
The first superhero MMO with a mission architect will likely become my new home. Alas, I seriously doubt CoT will be that game.
Regardless of vision, without someone experienced at the helm, they aren't likely to carry it on.
They set themselves a 3-years deadline to get something playable from the ground up when CoH took close to six. While some companies can produce a game in three years (or even less), we're talking about studios full of people paid to make of that game their one and only priority, which isn't the case with TPP because they're lowballing their budget, which means no one involved can make of CoT their "real" job and thus, commit 100% to the project.
So, there's no way TPP can have a AAA game ready within deadline. If the game is AAA, it will be even more incomplete at launch than TSW was during their public Alpha I mean, Beta test. If they manage to finish, it will look like a Korean knockoff of CoH's engine (and that is assuming a best-case scenario).
I have to agree with Biff. I don't see it happening.
I think it's completely irrelevant to the future of CO.
I disagree. If CoT fails, it will have little to no impact on Champions. However, if it succeeds, it will add a new option to the market. If there's serious competition out there (and I don't really feel that either of Marvel or DC's games are serious competition), then Champions may get to the point where they are forced to either step things up to retain and/or win back the player base.
I tried playing CoH, after it went F2P. I didn't enjoy it. Here, I started off feeling like a fledgling superhero, just getting to know what I could do with my powers; there, I barely felt super at all. Too many cooldowns.
How long did you play? By level 6, an Electric Blaster or Corruptor should have had enough attacks to sustain an attack chain with no significant breaks. If you were a Defender, you would have gained attacks slower, but still should have had a viable attack chain relatively quickly.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
i mean i played COH for years, it was my first MMO after all. but i CAN NOT get behind a project that has untextured models and concept art, they have to show me ALOT more then that to get interested
i wish them well i really do, but since i have worked in a professional game studio for several years, it takes ALOT more then what people think to develop, maintain etc etc a single player game LET ALONE an mmo, and a lot of game studios fail because of that.
the ONLY project i am following with serious interest is Valiance Online, they may be an indie studio but they are farther ahead of everyone
too many chiefs from what i have heard, and people get burnt out and leave.
They don't have many pros in there.
The people that are giving money must really KNOW they are taking a HUGE risk, i looked at the kick-starter and i feel really bad for whoever gave them $5000 dollars. and being a penny pincher myself i just cringe because that is ALOT of hard earned money on something that may not go anywhere
- Heroes and Villains:
anyone who has been in the COH community knows that Golden Girl is a useless troll, and her first rift was when she and her "followers" left the city of titans team over "creative differences" (article is somewhere on massively)
Her "game" is just most likely a big act for attention and in the whole year or 2 that has been announced they have produced NOTHING.. absolutely nothing. (unless you count the barf-able poser models) for concept art which anyone that 3d models are absolutely useless, you can't rig them and you sure as spit can't animate them.
the second point i don't like about heroes and villains was the fact that golden girl has attempted to slander Valiance Online more then once as well, gotta love a good face book flame war, calling it a "scam" a few months back, as well as "stealing" city of titans developers
Valiance Online:
farthest ahead of all of them, the modelers have talent (and are quite speedy) the texture look ok for the most part, and they already have an engine since they have a few other games that they have developed. they may be a small indie studio but sometimes indie companies can surprise you.
but would i go back to a clone of city of heroes, maybe, if it was up to date with modern standards, like free form, a nem system, etc.
but if it was almost an exact clone of city of heroes no i wouldn't.
if all the petitions, and rallies and save coh didn't stop it from getting shut down, a bunch of untrained volunteers aren't going to make a big AAA mmo in 2 years plus the year its been announced.
Paragon City is nuked... its gone... its a smoking crater i think its time to move on and just take the memories you had playing it with you with whatever screen shots you have on your computer
because NCsoft will NEVER give up the rights for it, and its never going to come back no matter how bad people want it too.
(while you get exposed to bits of the CO storyline almost as soon as you leave the Tutorial).
CO has story?
:X
I mean, not CU PnP, but CO?
Which one exactly? Not counting added later adventure packs and comic issues...
This one storyline which starts and continues with assaulting random bystanders in Westside because they are wearing gang colors and may, or may not be up to something no good?
Very "heroic", by the way...
You are wearing gang colors, I think I'll shoot you just on principle. Then you may or may not have any evidence in your pocked. Who cares anyway?
I feel like a murderous psycho on rampage every time playing Westside.
Was marginally better before Westside revamp, with Canada and Desert right after tutorial.
But really, one good reason to play mostly Alerts is to be saved from what goes for story in CO. Nothing really to be proud of.
Not to say that I'm interested in proving anything about CoX. Couldn't care less which game was/is better.
But I'd be very careful with using CO "story" for arguing about its greatness. What passes for writing in CO isn't very good, it's easily defeated by even the weak competition.
There isn't much in the way of a continuous story in CO if you're not running an Adventure Pack or Comic Series. The mission chain that leads into the VB apocalypse is really the only example of a story with progression outside of APs and CSs. Practically every other situation in the game is wrapped up in four super quick missions or less.
EDIT: Those super quick missions are usually just assignments given to you by NPCs that can't be arsed to do these things themselves. I don't think stuff like that qualifies as a story.
EDIT Part Deux: Oh yeah, the Nemesis mission chain is a neat story even if it sometimes doesn't seem to make much sense.
Call me simple-minded or crazy even, but I don't play the game for an engaging story. My main interest has always been to meet up bad guys and beat them up to save the day while soaking up the environments and the general lore. I don't need to over-think things and I don't see there being a necessity in having deep, intricate storylines.. There are plenty of entertainment media outside of CO that I can seek if I want thought-provocation. This is the same reason why I didn't care about story arcs in CoX.
So basically, my question is, what do you consider makes one game better than the other, FACTUALLY?
You completely misunderstood what Smackwell was saying... and you know what wild misinterpretations meant to continue the argument means? That means this thread is turning into a CO vs COH flame war!
You completely misunderstood what Smackwell was saying... and you know what wild misinterpretations meant to continue the argument means? That means this thread is turning into a CO vs COH flame war!
Philly cheese steak to the rescue!
This thread is now about Philly Cheese Steak vs Pulled Pork Sandwich!
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
Let us know when one of these projects reaches a playable beta and I will take a look. Until then it's just nostalgia for a game that I didn't think was all that to begin with and some hobbyists that most likely have a lot to learn.
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
This thread is now about Philly Cheese Steak vs Pulled Pork Sandwich!
See, the problem is, I'm not sure I can have an objective debate about that, because I like Philly Cheese Steaks more. I mean, can I even make an argument for why one is universally better when my only basis for comparison is how happy either of them makes my mouth? Since we all have different mouths that are made happy by different things, I don't think it's really possible for me to do anything other than list reasons why I personally like one better... but trying to use those personal preferences as an argument for why one is better than the other to all mouths everywhere would just be egotistical.. and a little maniacal. o.o
Yawn. The entire population of active players in Champions (well, pre-November 2012) thinks way otherwise. CoH wasn't the beautiful snowflake you guys make it out to be. You liked it. Great. But it wasn't the best game ever. Personally I thought it was terrible and jumped ship at the first sign of Champions. What's that say about City?
It says that everyone's got a different experience with different games. Quit trying to come in here and say that factually, City was a better game. We're all tired of hearing it.
On page 2 you were telling someone that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Now I agree with you that no one should be saying that CoH was better as a matter of fact...but you're basically telling them what their own opinion is/should be in this post.
Again, I see where you're coming from...it's just you're being borderline hypocritical about it.
It's too early to think about lunch, but hot damn does a philly cheesesteak sound like a good idea, but I did make something for breakfast based on this beauty.
French Toast and Bacon sandwich. I added an egg and a wee dab o' honey.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
On page 2 you were telling someone that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Now I agree with you that no one should be saying that CoH was better as a matter of fact...but you're basically telling them what their own opinion is/should be in this post.
Again, I see where you're coming from...it's just you're being borderline hypocritical about it.
Agreed. When I eat too much cheese, I feel like I've been hit with some sort of crowd control... like a snare that turns into a sleep after a few minutes
Joe's would be too old fashioned. And his kids are "meh".
It was always hilarious for me when obviously blind people in nineties were criticising newer books drawn by Kubert or Buscema and demanding more Liefield or McFarlane.
Because oldboys were probably not cool enough.
Except those oldboys always were better at pretty much everything than shallow nineties comic book celebrities.
Yawn. The entire population of active players in Champions (well, pre-November 2012) thinks way otherwise. CoH wasn't the beautiful snowflake you guys make it out to be. You liked it. Great. But it wasn't the best game ever. Personally I thought it was terrible and jumped ship at the first sign of Champions. What's that say about City?
That some people didn't like it, nothing more. In much the same way as I was here during the beta and didn't like this one. **shrugs** Different strokes.
It says that everyone's got a different experience with different games. Quit trying to come in here and say that factually, City was a better game. We're all tired of hearing it.
I definitely agree with that. I think we've hit some people here that don't know the difference between "I like" and "is good". I liked CoX way more than CO, but they did/do so many things so differently, I would hesitate to make a quality judgement on either over the other.
In the post I quoted, he was telling them how much they liked the game. Saying it was "not the beautiful snowflake they make it out to be"...and it's not the "best game ever".
He was stating that as a matter of fact. Not as his opinion.
It's minor...and I know he didn't mean to...but he was basically doing the same thing he was berating others for doing.
In the post I quoted, he was telling them how much they liked the game. Saying it was "not the beautiful snowflake they make it out to be"...and it's not the "best game ever".
He was stating that as a matter of fact. Not as his opinion.
It's minor...and I know he didn't mean to...but he was basically doing the same thing he was berating others for doing.
He's also not saying that CO is best, and that adds to the point that he's making; neither is best, people just have different opinions. That's what you get when you take the entire post into consideration, rather than just focusing on the portions that help you to misinterpret it.
When Smackwell states that COH is not the best game ever, he is in fact stating a fact, since there is no objective way to quantify COH as the best.
It was always hilarious for me when obviously blind people in nineties were criticising newer books drawn by Kubert or Buscema and demanding more Liefield or McFarlane.
Because oldboys were probably not cool enough.
Except those oldboys always were better at pretty much everything than shallow nineties comic book celebrities.
Anatomy, perspective, pencils, inks, everything.
I can't really tell if you're agreeing with me or calling me out (:biggrin:), but I do agree with your content. None of that '90s bunch knew a damned thing about storytelling. And Joe Kubert ROCKED (pun intended). I don't like his kids' work, though. Lifeless. Bad design sense. But then, I feel much the same way about John Romita Jr., who seems to have crowds of fans for no reason I can see.
Saying that anything is not "the best ever" as fact...is completely disregarding the subjective nature of the topic.
That was my point.
Except that it's not disregarding anything. If something is subjective there is no "best ever" because it must always be "best ever to who" which is pretty much exactly what was said. That's a direct statement about the subjective nature of something not against it.
This looks like you've just got an axe to grind for whatever reason.
Except that it's not disregarding anything. If something is subjective there is no "best ever" because it must always be "best ever to who" which is pretty much exactly what was said. That's a direct statement about the subjective nature of something not against it.
This looks like you've just got an axe to grind for whatever reason.
There is no axe to grind here...I was simply pointing out a flaw in his post.
There was really no reason for you two to come in and act as if he can do no wrong.
There was really no reason for you two to come in and act as if he can do no wrong.
Don't edit this shot away, I already saw it.
Except that I'm not acting as if he can do no wrong, I'm just pointing out a flaw in your post(s). :rolleyes: The fact you took that as saying someone can do no wrong is telling...
Anyway, here's a fact. The better game currently is the one we can log into and play today.
Except that I'm not acting as if he can do no wrong, I'm just pointing out a flaw in your post(s). :rolleyes: The fact you took that as saying someone can do no wrong is telling...
Anyway, here's a fact. The better game currently is the one we can log into and play today.
Touche.
Anyways, all I'm saying is that it never needed to turn into what you two turned it into.
My original point is that if you're trying to tell someone that they need to post opinions as opinions...you can't flat out say their opinion was wrong...nor should you say "it's not the best ever" without stating that it's your opinion. Which is exactly how that post read.
Comments
Part of the problem since December, 2012.
...Protoman? NO WAIT.. I know. Umm... Megaman X! No wait.. ummmm.... damn. I dunno.
You're interpreting what I wrote incorrectly. If you just stop looking for something negative, then the negativity will magically disappear
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
your slippin Nepht, show us how you realy feel! (with an amusing image)
Zero.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
1. City of Titans is a new superhero game in development getting kickstarted. It stands to reason it would be of interest to some folks here, but some folks evidently still sting from the competition COH used to offer.
2. The game is just intended to be a scaled down MMORPG to start out. They are not going to try and attempt to build an entire AAA MMORPG on their funding. IIRC they wish to build a smaller MMORPG with the core systems in place and then expand it as they go. This should help significantly with financial concerns.
3. Speaking of finances the kickstarter actually delineates where the money is going pretty carefully. Putting 1 and 1 together means that getting the tools to make the game means that kickstarter is giving them the ability to MAKE the game. Comments made in addition to that state that this funding is intended to cover the first few months of operation IIRC, and then it's played by ear on budgeting according to how much is there.
4. Without a super crazy popular IP to market, they will not be spending rediculous amounts of money simply to pay for the IP. Nor will they have to live up to strict lore, nor will they need to make X, Y, Z stuff. No licensing fees either. Creative freedom!
5. It's inspired by COH, and they intend it to be in the spirit of COH, but they also wish to break new barriers and do things COH couldn't. So it won't be COH, but I believe they do want a familiar sort of COH feel or energy to it.
6. You should fund it. WHY? Because you need options. I've played CO enough to know how the fanbase feels about CO, and it wavers continuously. CO is a good and fun game, but push comes to shove COH was a better game overall. It was more polished, had more variety, had overall better effects (COH wins on particles and power customization for sure, CO wins on textures) and it didn't try and constantly dig into your pocketbook with every new release and a billion dropped boxes that need keys. It had a simple sub, and then a sub and a stipend that was enough to continue getting the new powersets.
Without pressure from any other relevant superhero MMORPG, what reason does CO really have to excel? People are generally unhappy with every update and that's sad. I can promise it was the opposite with most of COH updates.
7. Freeform: Freeform is the greatest strength of CO, however it is also it's biggest handicap. Freeform is in some way, shape, or form most likely related to every problem you currently have to the game. It also keeps many powers from ever being useful outside of niche builds.
Freeform also creates a lack of identity for a hero, a lack of continuity, a lack of personality. All of this is supposed to come from you, but it's hard to match having it baked into your character. If you wish to be effective many times you need to be rather ecclectic or mismatched and alot of powers that would look great together serve the same purpose and thus you would greatly gimp yourself to take them all when you could take other things.
Freeform is fun, very fun, but it is far from perfect.
I'm sure there are more things I could think of, but that's it for now. I like CO and I think it should stick around for a good long while. It's a unique example and for me personally it's fun to take the occasional spin. But to say that it has the same flexibility, teamwork capacity, beautiful particle effects, heroic feeling of facing masses of enemies, costume/power customization, thematic flair and synergy of powers, etc. That's just not fair. Both games had their weaknesses, both CO and COH, COH was just more polished with far more variety and far far far more teamwork capable...but only if you wanted it
Yawn. The entire population of active players in Champions (well, pre-November 2012) thinks way otherwise. CoH wasn't the beautiful snowflake you guys make it out to be. You liked it. Great. But it wasn't the best game ever. Personally I thought it was terrible and jumped ship at the first sign of Champions. What's that say about City?
It says that everyone's got a different experience with different games. Quit trying to come in here and say that factually, City was a better game. We're all tired of hearing it.
Also, the graphics weren't all that - I suspect they're being burnished in the memories of those who miss the game - and while the story might have been good, I never saw any of it (while you get exposed to bits of the CO storyline almost as soon as you leave the Tutorial).
As for this City of Titans - so far, I'm underwhelmed. I kind of hope it comes to be, in order to prod Cryptic into improving CO faster, but if I had the money, rather than throw it to their kickstarter I'd just buy the lifetime sub to CO I keep promising myself.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Yeah. People really need to quit saying a game that was still making profit when it was cancelled, is better than a game that took just one year to go from SUB to F2P.
Or just because a game that updated way more often, had more costume options, larger player base, does not mean it was a better game.
Of course, when CoH was active, there were still posts saying "Well, CoH does this or this better..." I don't know what that means, since you know, players had the option to play CoH at that time.
So basically, my question is, what do you consider makes one game better than the other, FACTUALLY?
Actually, I haven't found the graphics of CO to be all that better. I think what you call graphics is actually called aesthetics. Also consider that CoH was out for 4 years before CO.
And what cooldowns? o.O You know how you have to gear up here to feel super? Yeeeeaaaah...you did the same there
I made a lightning-based toon in CoH. He shot electricity. Except that even his most basic zap had a cooldown, during which I had to punch things. I didn't want to punch things, with my merely human strength, I wanted to zap them with my superhuman powers. I can do that here, from the moment my toon first leaves the Character Creator.
I dunno, maybe F2P worked differently from the sub-based version so many played, but you and I seem to remember CoH quite differently.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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In the end I decided to follow my Champions Universe fanboy instincts and bought CO anyway. I have my fair share of concerns about CO but it has been a better game experience, for me, than COH.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
As long as they don't make it a direct CoX clone and actually make the game their own, as well as maintain/support it. I think it could be interesting, if it becomes a carbon copy, then I think it will follow all the games that tried to be carbon copies of WoW.
The same goes for Valiance Online, if they ignore history they will be doomed to repeat it.
Regardless of vision, without someone experienced at the helm, they aren't likely to carry it on.
They set themselves a 3-years deadline to get something playable from the ground up when CoH took close to six. While some companies can produce a game in three years (or even less), we're talking about studios full of people paid to make of that game their one and only priority, which isn't the case with TPP because they're lowballing their budget, which means no one involved can make of CoT their "real" job and thus, commit 100% to the project.
So, there's no way TPP can have a AAA game ready within deadline. If the game is AAA, it will be even more incomplete at launch than TSW was during their public Alpha I mean, Beta test. If they manage to finish, it will look like a Korean knockoff of CoH's engine (and that is assuming a best-case scenario).
I have to agree with Biff. I don't see it happening.
I disagree. If CoT fails, it will have little to no impact on Champions. However, if it succeeds, it will add a new option to the market. If there's serious competition out there (and I don't really feel that either of Marvel or DC's games are serious competition), then Champions may get to the point where they are forced to either step things up to retain and/or win back the player base.
How long did you play? By level 6, an Electric Blaster or Corruptor should have had enough attacks to sustain an attack chain with no significant breaks. If you were a Defender, you would have gained attacks slower, but still should have had a viable attack chain relatively quickly.
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
i wish them well i really do, but since i have worked in a professional game studio for several years, it takes ALOT more then what people think to develop, maintain etc etc a single player game LET ALONE an mmo, and a lot of game studios fail because of that.
the ONLY project i am following with serious interest is Valiance Online, they may be an indie studio but they are farther ahead of everyone
https://www.facebook.com/ValianceOnline
my thoughts on all 3 projects
- City of Titans:
too many chiefs from what i have heard, and people get burnt out and leave.
They don't have many pros in there.
The people that are giving money must really KNOW they are taking a HUGE risk, i looked at the kick-starter and i feel really bad for whoever gave them $5000 dollars. and being a penny pincher myself i just cringe because that is ALOT of hard earned money on something that may not go anywhere
- Heroes and Villains:
anyone who has been in the COH community knows that Golden Girl is a useless troll, and her first rift was when she and her "followers" left the city of titans team over "creative differences" (article is somewhere on massively)
Her "game" is just most likely a big act for attention and in the whole year or 2 that has been announced they have produced NOTHING.. absolutely nothing. (unless you count the barf-able poser models) for concept art which anyone that 3d models are absolutely useless, you can't rig them and you sure as spit can't animate them.
the second point i don't like about heroes and villains was the fact that golden girl has attempted to slander Valiance Online more then once as well, gotta love a good face book flame war, calling it a "scam" a few months back, as well as "stealing" city of titans developers
Valiance Online:
farthest ahead of all of them, the modelers have talent (and are quite speedy) the texture look ok for the most part, and they already have an engine since they have a few other games that they have developed. they may be a small indie studio but sometimes indie companies can surprise you.
but would i go back to a clone of city of heroes, maybe, if it was up to date with modern standards, like free form, a nem system, etc.
but if it was almost an exact clone of city of heroes no i wouldn't.
if all the petitions, and rallies and save coh didn't stop it from getting shut down, a bunch of untrained volunteers aren't going to make a big AAA mmo in 2 years plus the year its been announced.
Paragon City is nuked... its gone... its a smoking crater i think its time to move on and just take the memories you had playing it with you with whatever screen shots you have on your computer
because NCsoft will NEVER give up the rights for it, and its never going to come back no matter how bad people want it too.
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
:X
I mean, not CU PnP, but CO?
Which one exactly? Not counting added later adventure packs and comic issues...
This one storyline which starts and continues with assaulting random bystanders in Westside because they are wearing gang colors and may, or may not be up to something no good?
Very "heroic", by the way...
You are wearing gang colors, I think I'll shoot you just on principle. Then you may or may not have any evidence in your pocked. Who cares anyway?
I feel like a murderous psycho on rampage every time playing Westside.
Was marginally better before Westside revamp, with Canada and Desert right after tutorial.
But really, one good reason to play mostly Alerts is to be saved from what goes for story in CO. Nothing really to be proud of.
Not to say that I'm interested in proving anything about CoX. Couldn't care less which game was/is better.
But I'd be very careful with using CO "story" for arguing about its greatness. What passes for writing in CO isn't very good, it's easily defeated by even the weak competition.
EDIT: Those super quick missions are usually just assignments given to you by NPCs that can't be arsed to do these things themselves. I don't think stuff like that qualifies as a story.
EDIT Part Deux: Oh yeah, the Nemesis mission chain is a neat story even if it sometimes doesn't seem to make much sense.
You completely misunderstood what Smackwell was saying... and you know what wild misinterpretations meant to continue the argument means? That means this thread is turning into a CO vs COH flame war!
Philly cheese steak to the rescue!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
This thread is now about Philly Cheese Steak vs Pulled Pork Sandwich!
@flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
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See, the problem is, I'm not sure I can have an objective debate about that, because I like Philly Cheese Steaks more. I mean, can I even make an argument for why one is universally better when my only basis for comparison is how happy either of them makes my mouth? Since we all have different mouths that are made happy by different things, I don't think it's really possible for me to do anything other than list reasons why I personally like one better... but trying to use those personal preferences as an argument for why one is better than the other to all mouths everywhere would just be egotistical.. and a little maniacal. o.o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
On page 2 you were telling someone that everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Now I agree with you that no one should be saying that CoH was better as a matter of fact...but you're basically telling them what their own opinion is/should be in this post.
Again, I see where you're coming from...it's just you're being borderline hypocritical about it.
VARIANT
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-Abraham Lincoln-
French Toast and Bacon sandwich. I added an egg and a wee dab o' honey.
Joe's would be too old fashioned. And his kids are "meh".
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Biff's message seems consistent to me.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Agreed. When I eat too much cheese, I feel like I've been hit with some sort of crowd control... like a snare that turns into a sleep after a few minutes
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Precisely.
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It was always hilarious for me when obviously blind people in nineties were criticising newer books drawn by Kubert or Buscema and demanding more Liefield or McFarlane.
Because oldboys were probably not cool enough.
Except those oldboys always were better at pretty much everything than shallow nineties comic book celebrities.
Anatomy, perspective, pencils, inks, everything.
No not the cheese! Cheese needs a buff! Nerf the BBQ instead!
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That some people didn't like it, nothing more. In much the same way as I was here during the beta and didn't like this one. **shrugs** Different strokes.
I definitely agree with that. I think we've hit some people here that don't know the difference between "I like" and "is good". I liked CoX way more than CO, but they did/do so many things so differently, I would hesitate to make a quality judgement on either over the other.
In the post I quoted, he was telling them how much they liked the game. Saying it was "not the beautiful snowflake they make it out to be"...and it's not the "best game ever".
He was stating that as a matter of fact. Not as his opinion.
It's minor...and I know he didn't mean to...but he was basically doing the same thing he was berating others for doing.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
He's also not saying that CO is best, and that adds to the point that he's making; neither is best, people just have different opinions. That's what you get when you take the entire post into consideration, rather than just focusing on the portions that help you to misinterpret it.
When Smackwell states that COH is not the best game ever, he is in fact stating a fact, since there is no objective way to quantify COH as the best.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I can't really tell if you're agreeing with me or calling me out (:biggrin:), but I do agree with your content. None of that '90s bunch knew a damned thing about storytelling. And Joe Kubert ROCKED (pun intended). I don't like his kids' work, though. Lifeless. Bad design sense. But then, I feel much the same way about John Romita Jr., who seems to have crowds of fans for no reason I can see.
Saying that anything is not "the best ever" as fact...is completely disregarding the subjective nature of the topic.
That was my point.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Except that it's not disregarding anything. If something is subjective there is no "best ever" because it must always be "best ever to who" which is pretty much exactly what was said. That's a direct statement about the subjective nature of something not against it.
This looks like you've just got an axe to grind for whatever reason.
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Why did you do this? Now every time I eat one of these I'm going to see a sad face.
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There is no axe to grind here...I was simply pointing out a flaw in his post.
There was really no reason for you two to come in and act as if he can do no wrong.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Don't edit this shot away, I already saw it.
Except that I'm not acting as if he can do no wrong, I'm just pointing out a flaw in your post(s). :rolleyes: The fact you took that as saying someone can do no wrong is telling...
Anyway, here's a fact. The better game currently is the one we can log into and play today.
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Touche.
Anyways, all I'm saying is that it never needed to turn into what you two turned it into.
My original point is that if you're trying to tell someone that they need to post opinions as opinions...you can't flat out say their opinion was wrong...nor should you say "it's not the best ever" without stating that it's your opinion. Which is exactly how that post read.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
...to you. :biggrin: All good man, still love ya.
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And, frankly, yes, opinions can be wrong. They often are.