You keep saying you were forced to play through allegedly bad story arcs, which I don't recall at all. I don't think there was anyone holding a gun to my head and saying, "You must play through Diviner Maros' arc today."
Of course you don't recall. CoH can do no wrong in your eyes it seems, despite it's weak writing.
Last I checked, you could pick and choose which contacts you wanted to concentrate on. How were you "forced?"
The story forces you on a rigid path. One might as well be playing some linear based game.
What was? Be specific. This is an incomplete thought.
I've already referenced this. Most of the writing in the game. It was terrible. And this is the part where you insult me as opposed to actually discussing something and state your opinion like it's a fact.
I don't agree. Even CoH's worst arcs were scores above most of the so-called "arcs" you find in CO, because CO's arcs aren't actually stories.
Wait, so Vibora Bay Apoc is not a story? The comic series aren't stories? You're entitled to your opinion but let's not get carried away.
So would I, but the complete non sequitur change of subject was jarring.
People do that sometimes. Hell, as far as writers go Bendis is fond of this and he's popular enough and his quality, fr the most part is pretty decent. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad.
I have read the computers, and actually you need to play at least one of the Gadroon missions to be able read the computers. Furthermore, that is still no substitute for the slip-shod, ADD-riddled "writing" that passes for mission content in this game. As I stated, the lore that we read on those glowies is not affecting the content we're playing through. It's just serving as more filler for an already filler-infested game. Does my knowledge of the Empress help me collect Gadroon DNA or lure out the Gadroon commander from his saucer? It doesn't. It has no bearing. So trying to suggest it as a substitute for the lack of any actual story in the mission content is pointless.
You have to play through more than one to do that. There is a specific mission that unlocks the computers for reading. That said, I can make similar claims about CoX (especially the villain sides) quests. It was fetch this fetch that for some pointless reason that from a story standpoint never meant anything.
The whole game has a story? Where? I've been playing for nearly a year now and I can't find this "story" you're claiming exists.
No, all it is is random things.
The story deals with the possible return of Dr. Destroyer. We find out though, that it really is Shadow Destroyer that has returned. This is what makes Lemuria important because a lot of that is indicted there. Much of what is going on in the world is connected to Shadow Destroyer and his attempt to destabilize the world. Along the way we come across other villains who are trying to achieve their own goals through their own means. The structure of the game at it's basis is that while storylines take place across different zones, each zone has a minor story that is native to that zone (like Vik the blind, the Manaimals, VIPER and all that it is doing, the Lemuria unrest, and so on). There are a lot of random events sprinkled in but only done to give the idea that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. The story does get muddled near the end, but mainly because of the Vibora Bay Apocalypse, which, while it plays into things, how it fits exactly is unusual due to the tie traveling aspect of the story. It's all there though. Even the comic series and adventure packs play into this. They could do a better job to make this obvious but if you are paying attention ( I never do but I still got this so who knows) it becomes obvious. As for an actual timeline with all the quests and how they fit in, I'll be here all day, something I don't care to do for someone so willing to hurl insults.
They already force me on a path (Millennium City > Desert or Canada > Back to Millennium City > More Desert and Canada > Millennium City again > Canada III > Monster Island > Lemuria > Vibora Bay) but the problem is, there's no story at all during that path. Each new hand-off mission takes you to another guy with more plotless, random tasks that're barely connected to each other.
If you're going to show me the world, give me a story to go with that world. Otherwise I'm just a tourist taking pictures.
Nice world. Now where's the story that brings the world to life?
Dr. Destroyer/Shadow Destroyer is the main thread between all these zones. Another aspect to that storyline is that they also drop hints that Destroyer is not who he seems, from his minions returning to even a simple conversation with Black Talon. The Kings of Edom are a minor thread. VIPER is also a thread but much weaker.
It's that kind of attitude that contributes nothing to anything.
True. I could just sit around and insult people for having a different opinion. That would be more constructive.
Another incomplete thought. What's weak? The story? My comment? Your thoughts are short and of little substance just like the mission content in this game.
Take it however you please. Explaining it to you is probably a waste of time anyways.
So you pretty much admit that you were bull****ting about Millennium City leading up to Dr. Destroyer. Okay then. Hard to tell, because you keep mentioning this story that you claim is there, but I don't see it.
No, Witchcraft (or another contact which I've had before because I dislike the Witchcraft quests) will direct you to Dr. Silverback due to something important. This leads you to Karneleon which leads you along a stretch of quests before you reach Destroyer's lab. You don't have to be in MC to be directed to Silverback but certain contacts, whose names escape me, will direct you there with some urgent message about something. The thing is each of these are connected either to the Destroyer main plotline or the Kings of Edom plotline, which we later learn are connected.
You didn't call me on anything. I stated that your claim that things just randomly happening is more "realistic" than a plot is wrong by using the recent shutdown as an example because the bickering between Congress and the President has been leading up to it for months. The plot is: they can't agree! The whole thing has been a story in itself.
But no, you went on a strawman tangent by trying to say I was including crimes or whatever being orchestrated by some.... blah blah blah conspiracy... blah.
You were deliberately trying to misrepresent the argument.
You are the one who introduced it into all of this even though it doesn't even correlate. Yes, things just happen that aren't connected. Something on capitol hill can very well have nothing to do with what is going on in Venuzuela. You're the one who is acting like random things never happen. And that's wrong. Random things sometimes happen.
The shutdown didn't happen just out of the blue, ambushing us from behind a corner. We had warning. There was buildup. The deadline for the budget was steadily approaching, Congress wasn't budging. Obama wasn't budging. We knew there was chance that the shutdown was going to happen. The foreshadowing was there.
Actions have consequences in life, lestylo, regardless of your refusal to admit that.
And that's a separate thing. How does that invalidate random things happening in the world? You see why I said it was a bad example. Of course there is build up for some things and there are random events in other things as well. Not everything has a build-up or is interconnected.
Well, at least I know what kind of people keep Michael Bay continuously earning a paycheck.
I just like a little more substance to my entertainment than you. All the Baysplosions in the world aren't going to keep me satisfied. But I guess it's okay if you like that stuff, not everyone has the attention span required for understanding a story. I imagine in a few years Hollywood will just churn out films that're just two hours of nothing but explosions, flashing lights, and pew pew pew with none of that silly stuff like dialogue and plot, and you'll like it.
Oh stop it. It's a bloody game. You aren't some sort of intellectual just because you like some game with subpar writing. I mean really. The fact that you are trying to use this as some sort of point speaks volumes about you. It's nothing special when you realize a lot of people have refined tastes. Then again, I guess it depends on who you surround yourself with.
Wow. Assuming someone likes movies made by some guy you think is low-brow because you don't like their opinions. I'm honestly curious how you get along with other people in real life. I'm beginning to understand what kind of person I may be dealing with here and how much of a waste of time this is.
Honestly, today will probably hold the record of most strawmen built.
As opposed to the most insults made by a single poster on this board. Congrats to you.
When a discussion has someone actually try and say "I'm smarter/more refined/better than you" without a hint of irony....Oye. I don't know what to say. I've never seen anyone do this and actually mean it. Amazing.
In any case, I still think CoX's stories were bad and the game dreadful. Your free to think this game is horrible and has horrible writing and is not worth the time or whatever or think I'm a horrible person or whatever allegation about me and my personal life you think you can elucidate from my half-hearted postings. I share a different opinion. The game is flawed but not that flawed.
As for the discussion, there is nobility in working for free for something you believe in, but I just don't see it happening here, and even then, it would be a very slow process that will see people dropping out and newer people jumping on that may not have the same fire, drive, and enthusiasm.
In any case, I just hope I can block in this new game. I like being able to block.
"I tried to look at that page but saw only inane comments."
I sure hope you're not implying that Champions being "born from" CoX means it's somehow derived from that game. The Champions IP predates CoX by decades.
The IP wasn't. The game itself was. I would think that part was obvious.
1. Most seem to be assuming no one's going to give them money after this kickstarter finishes. With the dedication of many fans out there, I don't see their funds drying up. Plus within the 6 months they've been working on it, it's coming out to be a good start.
Are you suggesting some guys are going to give this project some hard-earned cash just out of goodwill? Most people do not work for free. And not for two years.
To be clear, I'm not saying that they're not getting paid. Read my posts. I'm saying that IF they're not getting paid, as that 4444 guy said, then it's going to fall apart (and that's just an opinion, not a fact).
2. "They're a competitor, so I won't help them" is one of the more childish reasons I've heard. Keeping money and trade secrets is actually a recent (in terms of the scope of history) creation. Back in the old days, when a business was starting up, competitors would assist their soon to be competition with money or guidance on how to perform their tasks because it was a nice thing to do. So what if they're trying to cater to a specific market? They aren't saying they want to steal all your players. The threat of competition should also be catalyst for improving one's own game as well, not bashing or doomsaying on one that's still in production.
Not that I'm not gonna help, but, compounded with the rest of the reasons why I think I won't like the game, I won't fight for it. Is it really childish to not want to campaign for a project that I don't have any faith in for several reasons, against a game that I like? Can you submit to me some very good reasons to do any of that? If Scarlet Blade was going under, would you be like "YES, I'LL HELP, AND CAMPAIGN FOR YOU GUYS AND GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT LIKE THE GAME!" I'd wager you wouldn't.
Also yes, I get it you aren't a dev and the quote was "A competitor to my favorite MMO". The same rule still applies. At least TRY new things before knocking them.
I try plenty of things and did pledge the first day I heard about this. Am I knocking them? No. Am I giving my personal opinion that I think they're going to fail if they have no regular funding? Yeah that's something quite different.
3. "But I have my reservations on whether I will like it or not, because it is born from City of Heroes, a game that bored me less than a year in." Bias. Plain and simple. It's born from it, yes.. but the devs have said they're going to be improving on both action and visuals. The livestream that just finished had a few minutes where one model of City Hall was shown. It looked well done for a non-colored and incomplete model. Also, if you meant that it would be basically like CoH.. that's Heroes and Villains you're thinking of.
So I shouldn't have any reservations at all on this game that is modeled from a game I disliked? Come on. I'm biased because the game they're building it on, I thought was crap? I think I have plenty of reason to have an OPINION. Not a bias. It's my opinion based on what they're building the game on. If you hated Monopoly and liked Sorry instead, and you heard Monopoly was going to make a new Monopoly but themed somewhat like Sorry, you're saying you wouldn't have any bias? Please.
5. Many of the devs are very happy and content on working on this for free as it is their passion. Much like abrigders who spend weeks on a single episode and don't get paid a DIME for it, the people they meet and the joy they're bringing is payment enough. These are people who didn't want their love to die and are bringing it's spirit back from the grave. If you think they're crazy for it, then you really don't know what it is to be a hero.
More poetics, thanks. But you're not pulling at my heartstrings. A guy who has to take a second job because his wife left him and now he has to pay child support isn't going to say "Screw child support, I'm making superhero games." Real life happens.
6. While many are relatively unknown, how do we know THIS specifically won't get their names out there? You guys keep saying they have no experience and yet trash their first game. The best experience is doing, people. And by god, they're doing.
The only reason I have any sort of faith in this game, rather than Golden Girl's trainwreck, is because they're not trying to just be another City of Heroes. I'm not trashing their game. I already ponied up some cash for it. I'm just saying I have my doubts. Is it wrong to say that?
If I'd heard from Cryptic that they were trying to remake a "spiritual successor" to City, I would not have applied for beta and would not have been in open beta and would not have bought a lifetime subscription to the game before it launched because of the similarities I and any other normal person would associate with the "spirit" of the dead game.
The fact is that they just made another superhero game, a different superhero game, and that it catered to the things I like. If someone said "We're making another World of ********!" guess what, I wouldn't be jumping in line for it. If someone says "We're making a new City of Heroes!" then I won't be jumping in line for it.* If someone says "We're building the next Quantum Link" I'm not going to dig up my old C64 and throw money at them because it was the first computer I had.
You City guys need to stop being so sensitive. All I said is that I do not expect to like it because they're saying that they want to build a new City of Heroes. Yes, with changes. Yes, with forward-thinking attitudes. Yes, with improvements that they've found in other games.
But please, can I just express my expected opinions? Holy crap.
Of course you don't recall. CoH can do no wrong in your eyes it seems, despite it's weak writing.
The story forces you on a rigid path.
No, I don't recall because it didn't happen. There was never a rigid, set path, because at each level range there was more than enough contacts with their accompanying story arcs to choose from. And there was no realistic way to do ALL of the contacts of a specific level range on a character without out-leveling them first. So depending on which arcs you chose to run on a particular character, no leveling experience was exactly the same
There's a difference between a legitimate critique and lying, and you're frankly lying.
One might as well be playing some linear based game.
You mean like CO? Because CO is linear.
I've already referenced this. Most of the writing in the game. It was terrible.
Having a story is apparently "bad writing." Okay.
I don't agree with that. I think most of the writing in CoH was actually pretty good, especially the newer stuff they were adding.
And this is the part where you insult me
Sorry to disappoint your prediction there.
as opposed to actually discussing something and state your opinion like it's a fact.
Like you?
Wait, so Vibora Bay Apoc is not a story? The comic series aren't stories? You're entitled to your opinion but let's not get carried away.
Actually I'm pretty sure I already established that those are the only stories in the game. But if you suffer from short-term memory loss, that's fine. But I'm referring to 95% of the rest of the content.
People do that sometimes. Hell, as far as writers go Bendis is fond of this and he's popular enough and his quality, fr the most part is pretty decent. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad.
Says the guy who objectively claims that CoH had bad writing. Hypocrite alert!
You have to play through more than one to do that. There is a specific mission that unlocks the computers for reading.
No, it can be just the one. The mission is from an item drop. Simply defeating a single Gadroon soldier can get you the item to open the mission.
That said, I can make similar claims about CoX (especially the villain sides) quests. It was fetch this fetch that for some pointless reason that from a story standpoint never meant anything.
Actually just about every clue found in CoH missions contributed to its particular arc. They actually meant very much to their respective stories.
The story deals with the possible return of Dr. Destroyer. We find out though, that it really is Shadow Destroyer that has returned.
And all it required was a bunch of random filler to get there. Worst. Implementation. Ever.
This is what makes Lemuria important because a lot of that is indicted there.
Not as strongly as you think.
Much of what is going on in the world is connected to Shadow Destroyer and his attempt to destabilize the world. Along the way we come across other villains who are trying to achieve their own goals through their own means. The structure of the game at it's basis is that while storylines take place across different zones, each zone has a minor story that is native to that zone (like Vik the blind, the Manaimals, VIPER and all that it is doing, the Lemuria unrest, and so on).
And all of their schemes don't have any cohesive buildup or foreshadowing. It's villains with ADD!
They could do a better job to make this obvious but if you are paying attention ( I never do
Thank you for admitting that. It's the first step to recovery to admit that you have a problem.
it becomes obvious. As for an actual timeline with all the quests and how they fit in, I'll be here all day, something I don't care to do for someone so willing to hurl insults.
I think you have me confused with cybersoldier. I've been a bit snarky, but I've never outright insulted you.
Dr. Destroyer/Shadow Destroyer is the main thread between all these zones.
Not a very strong thread. I barely notice his presence.
Another aspect to that storyline is that they also drop hints that Destroyer is not who he seems, from his minions returning to even a simple conversation with Black Talon. The Kings of Edom are a minor thread.
One that doesn't make any sense.
VIPER is also a thread but much weaker.
Are they even working toward something?
True. I could just sit around and insult people for having a different opinion. That would be more constructive.
Yeahhhh.... I really have not done that in this thread.
Take it however you please. Explaining it to you is probably a waste of time anyways.
You won't because you can't.
No, Witchcraft (or another contact which I've had before because I dislike the Witchcraft quests) will direct you to Dr. Silverback due to something important. This leads you to Karneleon which leads you along a stretch of quests before you reach Destroyer's lab.
Which, umm... isn't what I understand to be a lead-in in the contextual story sense. It's just stumbling onto another loosely strung-together plot.
You don't have to be in MC to be directed to Silverback but certain contacts, whose names escape me, will direct you there with some urgent message about something. The thing is each of these are connected either to the Destroyer main plotline or the Kings of Edom plotline, which we later learn are connected.
Oh great, another connection in a randomly connected metaplot full of connections that don't make any sense.
You are the one who introduced it into all of this even though it doesn't even correlate. Yes, things just happen that aren't connected. Something on capitol hill can very well have nothing to do with what is going on in Venuzuela. You're the one who is acting like random things never happen. And that's wrong. Random things sometimes happen.
Yeah, but they aren't the only things that happen... ever.
And that's a separate thing. How does that invalidate random things happening in the world? You see why I said it was a bad example. Of course there is build up for some things and there are random events in other things as well. Not everything has a build-up or is interconnected.
No, but not everything is completely random either.
Oh stop it. It's a bloody game. You aren't some sort of intellectual just because you like some game with subpar writing.
At least you finally admit Co's writing is terrible.
Wow. Assuming someone likes movies made by some guy you think is low-brow because you don't like their opinions.
Well, you've indicated that you think having a story is "bad writing" so what guess was I supposed to make?
As opposed to the most insults made by a single poster on this board. Congrats to you.
Actually cybersoldier surpassed whatever alleged insults I made in this thread.
When a discussion has someone actually try and say "I'm smarter/more refined/better than you" without a hint of irony....Oye. I don't know what to say. I've never seen anyone do this and actually mean it. Amazing.
You must be new to the Internet.
In any case, I still think CoX's stories were bad and the game dreadful. Your free to think this game is horrible and has horrible writing and is not worth the time or whatever or think I'm a horrible person or whatever allegation about me and my personal life you think you can elucidate from my half-hearted postings. I share a different opinion. The game is flawed but not that flawed.
You seem to be taking my discontent toward CO's crappy writing personally. And I don't hate the game, but apparently criticism = hatred of the game on these boards. I've learned that much.
The IP wasn't. The game itself was. I would think that part was obvious.
And just because video games are a thing ultimately because of the success of Pong doesn't mean they're all born from it.
If CO was somehow supposed to be a successor to CoX then you may have a point but it wasn't. It's a superhero MMO that took elements Cryptic had used previously and knew to be big selling points, like in-depth character creation and character building overall, and added more and newer things to it to make it more unique and set it apart from CoX. CoX showed there was enough of an interest in that particular MMO genre to warrant adding more. That kind of interest and success may have played some part in how CO came to be but that doesn't mean it was born from CoX. Being the first game in a genre doesn't necessarily mean every game in the genre that comes after it is born from it.
DCUO and the Marvel game came into being because people like their respective characters and are interested in online superhero games. Does that mean either of those games were "born from" CoX since it did the online superhero game thing first?
People have been playing superhero roleplaying games since long before CoX was a thing. It was a love of roleplaying games that got the original founders of Cryptic interested in making an MMO involving them. Positron, Statesman and I believe a few others in the Freedom Phalanx were either based on or directly transplanted from the Champions PnP game by their respective developer "alter-egos".
There is honor in struggling without income to launch something you believe in.
But very few grocery stores or utility companies will lend you their services in exchange for your honor. Sooner or later, they're going to want money. Probably sooner, if I know my utility companies.
They are working AND volunteering. They do this in their free time like some people work a second job. Strange concept I know.
4. I'm actually curious how much the doomsayers for this game have looked into it, mainly on the forums. While information is trickling out slowly, what we do have paints a wonderful picture that combines CO and CoH mechanics.. to an extent. And the community, much like CoH's was, is a very nice bunch.
Basically many hadn't even glanced at it before they started levying comments. A fair amount of the naysayers seemed to base everything they had on "inspired by COX" and "they are making the game for free". In other words arguing in complete ignorance. Some went as far as to claim random things like "It's COH 2", proving they definitely hadn't checked it out in the slightest.
But it's the internet, you expected different? Everyone is an expert on things they have minimal dealings with.
Originally Posted by biffsmackwell View Post
But I have my reservations on whether I will like it or not, because it is born from City of Heroes, a game that bored me less than a year in. Compare that to Champions...
Good God, this thread is just ping-ponging from actually discussing the topic and mudslinging...
To be on topic, I'm kind of with Smackwell on this; It's a neat idea, but I see work on this piddling away after a while. I also agree with others in that they should really try to base it off of CoH rather than make a flat-out clone of the game. In short, I'm finding it hard to stay interested in it since I never had any good or bad feelings about CoH to begin with.
Enh. So CoT is banking on people trying it and doing heroic measures to make it a reality because it's like CoX except don't discount it for being like CoX because it's new.
Trying to have it both ways!
Taken straight from the kickstarter:
Players will find their choices built around a flexible framework. Instead of the typical class based system found in some games, or the skill based system found in others, our focus has been on attitudes. How do you want to do, what you want to do? Pick that, and we give you all the powers we can. Players pick a primary power, with that power determining the options available for their secondary powers. Then as you progress, and level up, you grow these powers as well as gain new ones. And even further, we let you customize those powers with a signature style, your Mastery, that enhances and alters how all your powers behave.
That approach, a flexible framework, is how we approached most design decisions. Powers are split into effect and animation, allowing us to mix and match to offer more to the player. You pick "Fireball." You then pick how you want to throw this fireball, from the hand, mouth, a wand, or a 12-gauge shotgun. Same power, different look, all through the framework designed with our custom Socket System. Even two people with optic blasts can have their own unique look, depending on the powers chosen, the colors selected, the effects added and the animations picked for the power.
The goal in the end is to give you the ability to create your character. Want to be a vine swinging Amazon warrior who attacks by using her hair as a whip? We're working on that. Want to be the wizard warrior with a pet raven who can spit fire? It?s in the cards.
But, powers and characters do not an RPG make. There needs to be a story. Unlike a traditional CRPG, MMORPG's are notable for growing over time. What we have done is conceptualize what we want our game to be like at 5-years post-release, and worked backwards to our initial beta release, planned for in mid-to-late 2015. By having that years-in-the-future target, we can design the systems, stories and plotlines now with that in mind.
To build these plots, we have plans to build the tools necessary. But, our plans for these tools is to make them available for you to create your own stories, plots and schemes as well, and to share them with other players. The era of user generated content is here. Rather than try to integrate a system on top of the system used by the developers, our plan is to create a system which is used by both players and developers. Show us your creativity.
We will make the framework, you will bring it to life.
I'll give you a hint folks, they don't want to make COX2. In their eyes to do that wouldn't even be COX2 because COX broke new ground and innovated the genre, they want to do the same. All the same I doubt they will do freeform after seeing the double edged sword that it became. It'll likely be somewhere between the two games I'd imagine. Finding out should be interesting and all of our opinions can possibly help shape the game.
Even supporters of CO don't think it's doing so hot, this is your chance to help support and shape a game that has the potential to share in it's niche. Because ya know....NCsoft killed COX, DCUO sucks, and I really don't see anything else on the horizon. What have you got to lose by following, helping, and supporting it?
Are you suggesting some guys are going to give this project some hard-earned cash just out of goodwill? Most people do not work for free. And not for two years.
To be clear, I'm not saying that they're not getting paid. Read my posts. I'm saying that IF they're not getting paid, as that 4444 guy said, then it's going to fall apart (and that's just an opinion, not a fact).
Honestly considering that they all have the potential to get paid and become paid employees when this is over this is 100% in step with American business. Startup businesses are done with one's own funds with the intention of turning a profit at some later time. Internships are unpaid work people do with the hope, not promise, of getting hired. Sometimes not even that, sometimes people do internships just for experience and a pip on their resumes.
So if you wanted to view this from a capitalistic angle this is also a perfectly valid startup business. They are investing their time and money in the hopes that it pays off while working another job to fund the start of it. My mother actually did the very same thing and is still successfully self employed today making a healthy profit with her hair salon (and wise choices on not so random crap inside to sell).
They are planning to make money, it's right there in the kickstarter that you didn't read. They just won't be making money till then and that fits in exactly perfectly with American business ventures.
And just because video games are a thing ultimately because of the success of Pong doesn't mean they're all born from it.
If CO was somehow supposed to be a successor to CoX then you may have a point but it wasn't. It's a superhero MMO that took elements Cryptic had used previously and knew to be big selling points, like in-depth character creation and character building overall, and added more and newer things to it to make it more unique and set it apart from CoX. CoX showed there was enough of an interest in that particular MMO genre to warrant adding more. That kind of interest and success may have played some part in how CO came to be but that doesn't mean it was born from CoX. Being the first game in a genre doesn't necessarily mean every game in the genre that comes after it is born from it.
DCUO and the Marvel game came into being because people like their respective characters and are interested in online superhero games. Does that mean either of those games were "born from" CoX since it did the online superhero game thing first?
People have been playing superhero roleplaying games since long before CoX was a thing. It was a love of roleplaying games that got the original founders of Cryptic interested in making an MMO involving them. Positron, Statesman and I believe a few others in the Freedom Phalanx were either based on or directly transplanted from the Champions PnP game by their respective developer "alter-egos".
To be fair COX is actually much more deeply intertwined than even a spiritual successor. Originally Cryptic was going to make COX much more towards the style CO is now, but they decided against it. The idea they followed instead became COX.
CO was their attempt to take what they learned from COX and create the original game exactly as they wanted to make COX like in the first place. In other words, CO was intended to be COX but they went down a different path mid-way in the development cycle.
So it was more like two tries to make the game they wanted, but they were not quite sure (or had political interference) the first time. Sadly the second time wasn't nearly as successful and while COX went out while still successful, CO looks like it's going to run it's career out like Bret Farve did. Slowly and painfully killing the hopes of all involved.
From the looks of it Cryptic gave up on it since they pulled your devs to work on Neverwinter. It's not all bad design mind you, CO was released too early and alot of bug fixing, balancing, and streamlining never happened. Cryptic just didn't do what could have been an even better game justice unfortunately. But then, it was the same with them and COX.
Basically many hadn't even glanced at it before they started levying comments. A fair amount of the naysayers seemed to base everything they had on "inspired by COX" and "they are making the game for free". In other words arguing in complete ignorance. Some went as far as to claim random things like "It's COH 2", proving they definitely hadn't checked it out in the slightest.
But it's the internet, you expected different? Everyone is an expert on things they have minimal dealings with.
Case and point:
The irony .
I think maybe I'm withdrawing my backing of this project because of your attitude. Y'all can go giggle about irony elsewhere.
Thread is closed. If you guys want goodwill from the players in this game, maybe try treating them with some respect.
You all might want to try friendlier tactics when wearing your shill hats.
Comments
When a discussion has someone actually try and say "I'm smarter/more refined/better than you" without a hint of irony....Oye. I don't know what to say. I've never seen anyone do this and actually mean it. Amazing.
In any case, I still think CoX's stories were bad and the game dreadful. Your free to think this game is horrible and has horrible writing and is not worth the time or whatever or think I'm a horrible person or whatever allegation about me and my personal life you think you can elucidate from my half-hearted postings. I share a different opinion. The game is flawed but not that flawed.
As for the discussion, there is nobility in working for free for something you believe in, but I just don't see it happening here, and even then, it would be a very slow process that will see people dropping out and newer people jumping on that may not have the same fire, drive, and enthusiasm.
In any case, I just hope I can block in this new game. I like being able to block.
The IP wasn't. The game itself was.
Are you suggesting some guys are going to give this project some hard-earned cash just out of goodwill? Most people do not work for free. And not for two years.
To be clear, I'm not saying that they're not getting paid. Read my posts. I'm saying that IF they're not getting paid, as that 4444 guy said, then it's going to fall apart (and that's just an opinion, not a fact).
Not that I'm not gonna help, but, compounded with the rest of the reasons why I think I won't like the game, I won't fight for it. Is it really childish to not want to campaign for a project that I don't have any faith in for several reasons, against a game that I like? Can you submit to me some very good reasons to do any of that? If Scarlet Blade was going under, would you be like "YES, I'LL HELP, AND CAMPAIGN FOR YOU GUYS AND GIVE YOU MONEY EVEN THOUGH I DID NOT LIKE THE GAME!" I'd wager you wouldn't.
I try plenty of things and did pledge the first day I heard about this. Am I knocking them? No. Am I giving my personal opinion that I think they're going to fail if they have no regular funding? Yeah that's something quite different.
So I shouldn't have any reservations at all on this game that is modeled from a game I disliked? Come on. I'm biased because the game they're building it on, I thought was crap? I think I have plenty of reason to have an OPINION. Not a bias. It's my opinion based on what they're building the game on. If you hated Monopoly and liked Sorry instead, and you heard Monopoly was going to make a new Monopoly but themed somewhat like Sorry, you're saying you wouldn't have any bias? Please.
More poetics, thanks. But you're not pulling at my heartstrings. A guy who has to take a second job because his wife left him and now he has to pay child support isn't going to say "Screw child support, I'm making superhero games." Real life happens.
The only reason I have any sort of faith in this game, rather than Golden Girl's trainwreck, is because they're not trying to just be another City of Heroes. I'm not trashing their game. I already ponied up some cash for it. I'm just saying I have my doubts. Is it wrong to say that?
If I'd heard from Cryptic that they were trying to remake a "spiritual successor" to City, I would not have applied for beta and would not have been in open beta and would not have bought a lifetime subscription to the game before it launched because of the similarities I and any other normal person would associate with the "spirit" of the dead game.
The fact is that they just made another superhero game, a different superhero game, and that it catered to the things I like. If someone said "We're making another World of ********!" guess what, I wouldn't be jumping in line for it. If someone says "We're making a new City of Heroes!" then I won't be jumping in line for it.* If someone says "We're building the next Quantum Link" I'm not going to dig up my old C64 and throw money at them because it was the first computer I had.
You City guys need to stop being so sensitive. All I said is that I do not expect to like it because they're saying that they want to build a new City of Heroes. Yes, with changes. Yes, with forward-thinking attitudes. Yes, with improvements that they've found in other games.
But please, can I just express my expected opinions? Holy crap.
No, I don't recall because it didn't happen. There was never a rigid, set path, because at each level range there was more than enough contacts with their accompanying story arcs to choose from. And there was no realistic way to do ALL of the contacts of a specific level range on a character without out-leveling them first. So depending on which arcs you chose to run on a particular character, no leveling experience was exactly the same
There's a difference between a legitimate critique and lying, and you're frankly lying.
You mean like CO? Because CO is linear.
Having a story is apparently "bad writing." Okay.
I don't agree with that. I think most of the writing in CoH was actually pretty good, especially the newer stuff they were adding.
Sorry to disappoint your prediction there.
Like you?
Actually I'm pretty sure I already established that those are the only stories in the game. But if you suffer from short-term memory loss, that's fine. But I'm referring to 95% of the rest of the content.
Says the guy who objectively claims that CoH had bad writing. Hypocrite alert!
No, it can be just the one. The mission is from an item drop. Simply defeating a single Gadroon soldier can get you the item to open the mission.
Actually just about every clue found in CoH missions contributed to its particular arc. They actually meant very much to their respective stories.
And all it required was a bunch of random filler to get there. Worst. Implementation. Ever.
Not as strongly as you think.
And all of their schemes don't have any cohesive buildup or foreshadowing. It's villains with ADD!
Thank you for admitting that. It's the first step to recovery to admit that you have a problem.
I think you have me confused with cybersoldier. I've been a bit snarky, but I've never outright insulted you.
Not a very strong thread. I barely notice his presence.
One that doesn't make any sense.
Are they even working toward something?
Yeahhhh.... I really have not done that in this thread.
You won't because you can't.
Which, umm... isn't what I understand to be a lead-in in the contextual story sense. It's just stumbling onto another loosely strung-together plot.
Oh great, another connection in a randomly connected metaplot full of connections that don't make any sense.
Yeah, but they aren't the only things that happen... ever.
No, but not everything is completely random either.
At least you finally admit Co's writing is terrible.
Well, you've indicated that you think having a story is "bad writing" so what guess was I supposed to make?
Actually cybersoldier surpassed whatever alleged insults I made in this thread.
You must be new to the Internet.
You seem to be taking my discontent toward CO's crappy writing personally. And I don't hate the game, but apparently criticism = hatred of the game on these boards. I've learned that much.
And just because video games are a thing ultimately because of the success of Pong doesn't mean they're all born from it.
If CO was somehow supposed to be a successor to CoX then you may have a point but it wasn't. It's a superhero MMO that took elements Cryptic had used previously and knew to be big selling points, like in-depth character creation and character building overall, and added more and newer things to it to make it more unique and set it apart from CoX. CoX showed there was enough of an interest in that particular MMO genre to warrant adding more. That kind of interest and success may have played some part in how CO came to be but that doesn't mean it was born from CoX. Being the first game in a genre doesn't necessarily mean every game in the genre that comes after it is born from it.
DCUO and the Marvel game came into being because people like their respective characters and are interested in online superhero games. Does that mean either of those games were "born from" CoX since it did the online superhero game thing first?
People have been playing superhero roleplaying games since long before CoX was a thing. It was a love of roleplaying games that got the original founders of Cryptic interested in making an MMO involving them. Positron, Statesman and I believe a few others in the Freedom Phalanx were either based on or directly transplanted from the Champions PnP game by their respective developer "alter-egos".
They are working AND volunteering. They do this in their free time like some people work a second job. Strange concept I know.
Basically many hadn't even glanced at it before they started levying comments. A fair amount of the naysayers seemed to base everything they had on "inspired by COX" and "they are making the game for free". In other words arguing in complete ignorance. Some went as far as to claim random things like "It's COH 2", proving they definitely hadn't checked it out in the slightest.
But it's the internet, you expected different? Everyone is an expert on things they have minimal dealings with.
Case and point:
The irony
aaaannnndddd checkmate:
Taken straight from the kickstarter:
I'll give you a hint folks, they don't want to make COX2. In their eyes to do that wouldn't even be COX2 because COX broke new ground and innovated the genre, they want to do the same. All the same I doubt they will do freeform after seeing the double edged sword that it became. It'll likely be somewhere between the two games I'd imagine. Finding out should be interesting and all of our opinions can possibly help shape the game.
Even supporters of CO don't think it's doing so hot, this is your chance to help support and shape a game that has the potential to share in it's niche. Because ya know....NCsoft killed COX, DCUO sucks, and I really don't see anything else on the horizon. What have you got to lose by following, helping, and supporting it?
Honestly considering that they all have the potential to get paid and become paid employees when this is over this is 100% in step with American business. Startup businesses are done with one's own funds with the intention of turning a profit at some later time. Internships are unpaid work people do with the hope, not promise, of getting hired. Sometimes not even that, sometimes people do internships just for experience and a pip on their resumes.
So if you wanted to view this from a capitalistic angle this is also a perfectly valid startup business. They are investing their time and money in the hopes that it pays off while working another job to fund the start of it. My mother actually did the very same thing and is still successfully self employed today making a healthy profit with her hair salon (and wise choices on not so random crap inside to sell).
They are planning to make money, it's right there in the kickstarter that you didn't read. They just won't be making money till then and that fits in exactly perfectly with American business ventures.
To be fair COX is actually much more deeply intertwined than even a spiritual successor. Originally Cryptic was going to make COX much more towards the style CO is now, but they decided against it. The idea they followed instead became COX.
CO was their attempt to take what they learned from COX and create the original game exactly as they wanted to make COX like in the first place. In other words, CO was intended to be COX but they went down a different path mid-way in the development cycle.
So it was more like two tries to make the game they wanted, but they were not quite sure (or had political interference) the first time. Sadly the second time wasn't nearly as successful and while COX went out while still successful, CO looks like it's going to run it's career out like Bret Farve did. Slowly and painfully killing the hopes of all involved.
From the looks of it Cryptic gave up on it since they pulled your devs to work on Neverwinter. It's not all bad design mind you, CO was released too early and alot of bug fixing, balancing, and streamlining never happened. Cryptic just didn't do what could have been an even better game justice unfortunately. But then, it was the same with them and COX.
I think maybe I'm withdrawing my backing of this project because of your attitude. Y'all can go giggle about irony elsewhere.
Thread is closed. If you guys want goodwill from the players in this game, maybe try treating them with some respect.
You all might want to try friendlier tactics when wearing your shill hats.