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City of Titans is (AKA project Phoenix) is on kickstarter. what do you think?
sigmaseven0
Posts: 714 Arc User
I'm intrigued by the idea and impressed that the ex COX fans have made it this far but making a MMO is a "massive" undertaking.
I'm not sure what to think about this.
Thoughts?
I'm not sure what to think about this.
Thoughts?
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My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
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Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
Their writing team does look solid though. Perhaps the updates will melt some of my skepticism.
Talented amateurs and fans have done some amazing things in this industry, and I wish them luck; it would be wonderful for this project to succeed. But I really wish they showed enough gameplay to put forward their case more effectively. "Hi, we're really passionate CoX fans, give us money" isn't enough for me.
That's why I'm skeptical about the project being successful. It's one thing to use kickstarter to successfully fund a single-player game like the recent Shadowrun one, it's something else entirely when it comes to a MMO type game.
...which I've enjoyed immensely. Back to topic, Thundrax and Jenny have fleshed out some of my other concerns were I to get beyond the whole subscription problem.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
They have said in the past that making sure the game can still run as a single-player adventure should the servers ever go down is one of their design goals. (And, as I read it, the money they're asking for is almost entirely for software tools. Nobody's getting paid for this at this stage of the game)
I actually kinda like the way they're going to handle subscriptions, assuming I'm reading it right. You have to pay to download/install the client, and then the subscription will basically just pay for a stipend to the cash shop (where you get more cash shop points per month for subscribing than you would have for giving the money directly to the cash shop), and little else. If/when your subscription runs out, you lose the stipend. That's it. You don't otherwise lose access to anything you had while you were subscribed. It's basically a F2P game where you can choose to make the cash shop cheaper.
It's really, really ambitious, and I hope it works out. I like Champions well enough, but it doesn't scratch all the CoH itches, particularly the Villain itch. Or, for that matter, the Use Electricity For Darmn Near Anything, Not Just Shooting Stuff itch. And definitely not the Runs At Full Speed On A Mac Laptop itch. (Right now i have the graphics settings turned down so low that CO looks like a SNES game, and the framerate is still painful when things get hectic)
In fact, that's my biggest qualm, the fact that it looks like there won't be a trial mode, so I won't be able to make sure I have enough HD space to install it or enough memory to run it before I buy it.
Still, even if all goes according to plan, there's years to go before even the beta is released, so there's time to sit back and see how it'll all work out. Maybe I'll even have a new computer by then.
"It is unthinkable. But such is the nature of villainy, don't you think? To do the unthinkable, to challenge the impossible, to conquer all before you and make destiny your own." - Ghost Widow
And that's why I like villains.
Also, this might seem a bit optimistic but how do you guys know they don't have some secret weapon? I remember a few people talking about directly ripping the coding and resources from the game a while back. The CoT guys might be tweaking it for bugs, updating polygons and models... what we see might be a game that looks, feels, and acts like a MUCH improved CoH but isn't CoH because of IP issues.
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I donated out of loyalty to my old beloved game but we'll see how it goes.
They're going to have to go way above and beyond what they're asking for. If they simply meet their goal, they have enough money to buy all the software and cover all their setup costs, but then they have no money to pay any of their staff.
It smells to me like a project that'll start off very ambitiously, and lose steam along the way, ending up with a product that's held together with tape and bubble gum, with only a fraction of the features they wanted.
If there's no incentive to keep workers working, other than "we'll have our own home now," I expect real life to get in the way, a lot.
Sounds like a big ol' pipe dream. Hope they do well, but damn. I don't see it happening.
The fact they have no engine, I see a lack of talent, and so far hope and whispers, and set a low goal of a budget, they must be aiming at the very bottom of the barrel as far as development goals go, which most likely means, if the game even launches, by all standards will probably look worse than City of Heroes.
What's bloody hilarious, these people don't even realize why they miss City of Heroes. It wasn't the game, because anyone in their right mind would have realized City of Heroes was average at best, compared to other MMOs. It was the community, which for its genre was actually pretty decent, well it was until the end, then they became the same self serving hooting ****holes the rest of the internet filled with self entitled delusions that their game was some how the best thing on the market and was immune to the decisions of corporate management.
I put it another way, I miss what city of Heroes was, I never missed what it became, and everyone of my friends I knew had long since traveled away from that game. I suspect many friends did given that CoH was below 50k active subscriptions at the end (hell the petition to stop the closure wasn't even half that 50k).
I do not have a lot of faith in them since all they are showing is concept art (some of which looks strangely familiar), and the people that actually put money on this Kickstarter are going to get a dose of reality or a huge bite in the **** over it, because even if the product gets out, it won't be the same. No matter how many times you try to go back, it never is. The magic of the game wasn't the game itself, any game can serve as that, it was the community, and even if you get a small fraction of them to go along, it still won't be the same.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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I always say I wish we could have the co game and system in the CoH world(zones.)
IF only CO would have a kickstarter to get funds for new zones, I would donate $ for that in a heart beat.
It must be good to be insane then!
But seriously, this entire statement pisses me off. You can criticize it all you want, but the fact is that the game itself was beautiful. It was grand.
Yes, the textures weren't as well developed and often looked cheesy. YES the graphics engine was outdated. YES they didn't have as much sliders as CO. Yes, the idea of hotbar mechanics with cooldowns, slow combat and such is SOOOOO oldschool.. but really. I still love it. Not for the nostalgic charm or the endless possibilities in the CC. The maps were grand, the music was grand, and even the missions were grand. It felt like you had impact in what went on than other MMOs and like you really could be a hero/villain. Choices during missions like whether to save someone or not really did impact how NPCs viewed you and how players could interact. As you gained in level, you fought more threatening enemies that were actually unique unlike fighting the supposedly "ultra trained evil terrorists that few heroes can ever tackle alone" (AKA: VIPER) from as low as level 10. The events.. oh god were they great. From the periodic Rikti invasion that caused many to scatter, to the rampages of villains (NPC or Player!) throughout the streets.
Yes, the community helped the game feel more alive. But it was only thanks to the tools provided BY the game. It will ALWAYS be my favorite MMO (though Shroud might take that soon.. we'll see) and I'll miss it.
But I'm not in my right mind apparently. *shrug* Oh well! Rather be insane in CoH than sane in mainstream MMOs like WoW or TERA..
Everyone's entitled to their opinions. I personally didn't find anything "grand" or "beautiful" in City in the year and a half I was subscribed to it.
It can piss you off all you want, but the truth is the truth. People didn't stick with CoH because of the game, they stuck with it because of the community. You can deny that facet all you want, because I've known many games just as beautiful or even better, but I don't have an ounce of wanting to go to them, because their community, or lack there of, wasn't there. People always claim there is a mystery or magic about the game that kept them there and they didn't understand it, well actually it was easy to identify; it was the community. I almost never even gave CoH much of a chance until after I got involved with the community.
Truth is truth, harsh or not, accepting the facts of what makes these MMOs stand out is part of understanding why they are enduring. You can make the best game engine, prettiest graphics and most balanced mechanics in the world, but they don't amount to much when the community isn't there. We have plenty of MMO titles to prove that.
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Personally I loved the way it felt like you were in a city, or a forest or a cave. I don't get that in CO.
Where CO has spoiled us with the tailor and Freeform, COH spoiled us with great locations. There is not a single zone here that I would pick over ANY of the COH ones. I dont remember all the names anymore, which saddens me, but the alternate dimension where you can be shot from floating island to island was fun as heck.
Of course I love the Roman/Greek location as well, I would use the heck out of that zone here. (My @handle is bwdares so duh
I even miss the mobs now a days. Yes...even the Circle of Thorns.
I most definitely played CoH because of the game...not the community.
The only reason I'm here is because that game shut down.
I didn't follow the community to another game...I simply went to the next best superhero MMO (Champions Online)...in my opinion.
Your "truth"...is only opinion. Please treat it as such.
Anyways, as for City of Titans...I can't back it right now because I never pay for future content. I only ever pay for what's here now...when it comes to games.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
There is a big different between truth and opinion. You speak opinion. You cannot talk for what others feel. There is no way for you to say what others miss about another game.
Such as me. I miss the game MUCH more than the community. I did not spend alot of my time with the community. I enjoyed the game and its features MUCH more than anything.
This. I was barely even involved in CoH's community, as I've always been more of a loner. I stuck with the game until its shutdown because I loved the game. I came to Champions after CoH's shutdown because it was the only one other than it that was worth a damn.
But I guess we're all "crazy." Oh well, better to be crazy than passionless.
NO ONE PERSON can speak for everybody else! This is a fact! Opinion is just that an Opinion. Nothing more. With that said, people play games/mmo's for their own reasons. Another fact.
Telling people what they like and why they like something is utterly insane in itself!
Stop it.
Coh was great for the 5 years I played it. Both the community and sights, sounds, missions were fun for me. Just about everything, until the foundry hit. That did it for me, the abuse of the system which kind of meant the end of open team missions.
In any case. I thought the Zones were cool. City's were huge! Power sets and updates were not a rare occurrence etc etc... It was a very good ride for me.
Then came CO and freeform. The rest is history along with COH.
But, I will always think fondly of that game. And not just for it's community.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
2. money for maintenance
3. money for devs.
4. money for upgrades.(because people will ask)
5. If they are using any CoH code, money for IP.
6. money for rent for building to hold people and office space.(becasue once its running people will want a professional game)
7. money for customer service people
8. money for accountants for tax purposes, you are getting money in, you will be paying company tax, anyone gettingpaid, payroll tax,
9. legal fees for your TOS & EULA and enforcing it, or for people who fall foul.
10. electricity, computers, training upgrades, leave, all the other BUSINESS costs. becasue despite the fact that it is being run by COH fans, it will be a business.
11.
advertising,
keeping peoples interest in playing the game,
keeping people working on the game - full time
and now for the big one,
Why are you posting this notice here?
Hoping to get more people to see it and donate?
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I don't think they have a ghost of a chance.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
It won't hurt CO either. CO was pretty much in the same state before CoH closed down as it was afterwards, so it wouldn't make any difference if all the former CoH players went and played CoT (since, as I understand it, most of the former CoH players aren't actually playing CO anyway).
Also, quite frankly, the Super Hero MMO market just needs more games in it to get it a bigger presence in the MMO market, and the general video game market.
So ya, wish them the best of luck. I think they're gonna need it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I won't be able to answer everything, because some of it isn't finalized and some of it I might just not know. But I can try my best.
Most people seem concerned about money. The Kickstarter is specifically just to fund the costs for licencing the Unreal 3 engine and cover the programs we need to develop game content like 3DS Max and Maya. I can't talk just yet about other funding sources or how servers and stuff are going to be paid for, but we're not just clueless here. Stuff will be taken care of.
This, though, specifically, is Kickstarter's rule. They don't allow lifetime subscriptions as backer rewards. We had one planned and had to remove it.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
Art, Animation, and Stuff:
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I hate to admit it but that's basically how i see it. I would probably feel differently if this had an all star cast of devs that know how to make that kind of game like Mighty No9 did.
To be fair, they have unreal engine. to put things in perspective, DCUO also runs on unreal and cost around 60 million to launch.
There is no way they can launch a MMO in that time frame even if they were pros. The KS web sight isnt clear, but the stretch goals are an android and ios version of the avatar builder. What launches in 2015 may just be a standalone costume creator.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Ok, what specifically is launching in 2015, the game or an avatar creator?
I started this thread and am in no way affiliated with this project. There isn't even a link to the KS here.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I have two kind of important questions. Would the game be harsh on the slightly older computers, and will there be an option to make less human-like characters? I love making aliens and birds in hero games, but other than CO, there are very little options for making non-humanish looking characters.
[SIGPIC]http://imgur.com/9gptU4e[/SIGPIC]
to a few people try and read up on this game before jumping to conclusions.
they have their own forums ill link it. http://cityoftitans.com/
@sigmaseven0, I'll have to ask about that. I'll get back to you with more info. I know in other places we've said that the development cycle is going to be a 5 year process for the game itself.
@ritmos, We have some really cool plans for characters outside of the realm that you can do in other superhero MMOs, but I can't give any specifics yet. I'll just say you're going to be able to make characters you've never been able to make elsewhere. As for performance on older computers, that's not finalized yet. We're not going to work on everything, though. This is a modern game, and we want it to look good, but it's not going to be something that melts everyone's PCs.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
Art, Animation, and Stuff:
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I think that should be made more clear in the Kickstarter. I certainly got the wrong impression of it.
I'd like to know about the art direction. Is it going to be stylized at all, or is it going to have a generic rendering feel to it?
Kelpy, you have my respect just for stepping in front of the firing squad, as it were.
Part of the problem since December, 2012.
I agree about the kickstarter. I think you'll see a more detailed breakdown of fund usage in an update soon.
As for the art direction, we're going for some light stylization. The look and feel of things is inspired mostly by the recent Marvel movies. What we're aiming for is mostly the same sort of 'style' as City of Heroes, but something more modern and a little more detailed. However, it's not going to be full on realistic. Comic book realism.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
Art, Animation, and Stuff:
DA Tumblr Vimeo Youtube
I know... so why did you think my post was aimed at you? o.o
Fantastic, and people can help out City of Titans by going and discussing all this stuff on their forum. Nothing attracts a crowd like activity you know, and attracting a crowd will no doubt help their chances at success
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
But you seemed to think this thread was some kind of advertisement so as the OP i took it upon my self to make it clear that that is not the case.
You seem pretty adverse to kelplankton posting here and I don't really understand why especially because every thing he said is on topic for the thread.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
That's mostly because we had a thread last month about possible astroturfers for one of the Plan Zs (I'm guessing Golden Girl's, not City of Titans) doing nothing but blasting Champions and Cryptic in MC Zone Chat. Oh, and Jaybezz being Jaybezz.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Will my comic book hero look like something Gary Frank (lets try to be real! ick!) or Tony Daniel (<3) art?
Will they be freeform like CO? Which is the best aspect of CO. OR will they be limiting like CoH? In CoH I couldn't make a dual pistol using martial artist with fast reflexes and regeneration?
It might take a little work to do in CO (I use Parry and Righteous Fists for the Martial Arts feel), but I can get it! CoH had no way of really getting that comic book character feel, as you were limited.
CoH was better at missions. CO feels like a dungeon CRAWL. I want CoH's lots of enemies around to take out as I work my way to the boss. Not a few enemies scattered about in a huge map.
CoH realized we wanted to be A-list heroes, not C or B list heroes. You level up, you build for it, hell yeah, see if you can solo those AVs!
CO thinks, oh, hey, you're taking on a Legendary after building it (with real money)...ummm...no.
Now I LOVED CoH, but I always thought it could use some improvements. My fear is this game will try to be to much like CoH instead of going "You know what? We could totally improve upon the superhero mmo, by taking examples from the predecessors."
The odds were 99% that that was Team Golden *****.
As for the 'freeform vs archetype' argument, I can't talk about it yet but I think you'll find our solution to be fresh and interesting.
Stuff like not feeling outclassed by NPCs, feeling like you're fighting your way through a villain's lair or a warehouse or whatever and not a WoW style dungeon, that kind of stuff? We all want that too. We're doing our best to make it happen.
We liked CoH. A lot. But this isn't a CoH remake. This is a new game. It's building on a lot of lessons learned from CoH, but also from CO, DCUO, and the dozens of other MMOs out there on the market both now and previously.
We're not aiming to make a carbon copy or CoH with the names filed off. We're making something new, something modern, and something that CoH could never have done due to it's old, limited engine.
@kelpplankton
Oldschool CoH player, Lifetime CO and STO subscriber, animator and artist.
Art, Animation, and Stuff:
DA Tumblr Vimeo Youtube
For what its worth, soloing Legendaries is quite possible if you choose to build for it.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I know. I've done it. I just get the feeling they're not for it with coming changes.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!