I know sarcasm is tough to convey through the internet but none of that rang of sarcasm.
None of the post I'm currently quoting speaks much to your credit here either.
Take your own advice here, bud.
{I know sarcasm is tough to convey through the internet}
I guess it is, to some. If you would have read the second half, where i said ( All SARCASM aside) what you quoted was not meant to be SARCASTIC! Only the first part!
Bud.
Back on topic. I think anything new and engaging could be helpful at this point.
Foundry? Well, i guess looking at it as a way to keep lifers and subs from up and leaving or giving new players a sense of something they might be familiar with from other games...it couldn't hurt.
Hell, any sign of life from the PWE or Cryptic would be nice in the form of something "new" that doesn't involve lock boxes and Alerts!
It's new year, and Jack Emmert can be reached via Facebook. Send him a mail!
Just sent to Jack Emmert on FB:
Hi Jack, I know this is a bit anonymous but I've been an avid player of your first venture CoH from 2003 as a paid subscriber until its recent shutdown. I've now come over to champions online as a Gold member and am really enjoying the experience. However as I review the forums, there is a great deal of interest in porting the Foundry to CO from STO or NeverWinter. Sorry to have try and reach you this way but I didn't see any dev response on the forums. Would it be possible to get the Foundry into CO? We LOVED the creativity in Mission Architect and would love to extend and exploit the champions online Lore in a similar fashion with the Foundry. Or conversely, if there are no plans for it, and in fact, no plans to really do much more with CO in general, then can a dev at least come on and state that so that the subscriber base has an idea as to the future of the game? We are constantly speculating, and as a new CoH refugee, it seems that this is a prime opportunity for CO to increase its subscriber base with so many CoX players looking for a home. Thank you. (DeathSentry at Guardian and now DeathSentry2012 in CO)
Hi Jack, I know this is a bit anonymous but I've been an avid player of your first venture CoH from 2003 as a paid subscriber until its recent shutdown. I've now come over to champions online as a Gold member and am really enjoying the experience. However as I review the forums, there is a great deal of interest in porting the Foundry to CO from STO or NeverWinter. Sorry to have try and reach you this way but I didn't see any dev response on the forums. Would it be possible to get the Foundry into CO? We LOVED the creativity in Mission Architect and would love to extend and exploit the champions online Lore in a similar fashion with the Foundry. Or conversely, if there are no plans for it, and in fact, no plans to really do much more with CO in general, then can a dev at least come on and state that so that the subscriber base has an idea as to the future of the game? We are constantly speculating, and as a new CoH refugee, it seems that this is a prime opportunity for CO to increase its subscriber base with so many CoX players looking for a home. Thank you. (DeathSentry at Guardian and now DeathSentry2012 in CO)
Sigh.. I know you're probably right.. must admit, I may have gotten spoiled in CoH with at least the devs responding or being in-game from time to time.. I honestly don't know where else to turn in order to get at least some feedback/indication of where this is all heading
Sigh.. I know you're probably right.. must admit, I may have gotten spoiled in CoH with at least the devs responding or being in-game from time to time.. I honestly don't know where else to turn in order to get at least some feedback/indication of where this is all heading
I do hope I am wrong!-I find myself saying that about alot of my views on CO lately...
Unless I went to the wrong Jack Facebook page, I think it funny he didn't like Champions Online. Why would you not like your own game?
Make sure you invite him to your friend list first, otherwise the message will go in the "other" section of the messages. Facebook don't tell you if you got a message in there, only the Inbox.
Yes, Please! For the love of all things holy. Jack, put this in. Give CO the love it deserves. I've never hated you. Not for all my years in CoH. And when it was gone this was the first place I came. CO needs love. Give us refugees a home we can be happy to have.
The greatest thing about having a Foundry is that it benefits the game that it is put in without charging the players or authors a dime. Ever.
STO has 200 quality missions created from players. This far outweighs the dev time put into it to make sure the tools it has makes those missions as high quality as the ones created by the devs themselves.
The greatest thing about having a Foundry is that it benefits the game that it is put in without charging the players or authors a dime. Ever.
Even better - if it works the same way as the Foundry in STO, missions can only be created by Golds. It actually makes them money.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I heartily disagree. Cryptic has had everything they've tried to do for this player base repeatedly spat back in their face, regularly, and yes, it is self-entitlement that is largely responsible. Yea, these self-entitled types have existed in MMOs for a while, but no where else have they been more vociferousness or obnoxiously loud than Champions. Hell, even Star Trek Online, compared to the smaller player base of Champions, is a dull roar as compared to here.
In the realm of paying, players of Champions for the last few years have made it loud and clear they expect to pay little to nothing for everything. Any avenue they explored to try and continue growing content with pay for options has been rejected. The vehicle system that is up now, which the player base begged for and in a much more stripped fashion than what has actually been delivered now, is again being spat back in Cryptic's face.
And when a player base is that obnoxiously loud that they damn anything that is attempted for them, do you really expect Cryptic to constantly keep sticking their hand back in to have it bitten once more? We have repeatedly proven. Is it a wonder they focus more on STO when they at least know the efforts are working?
Cryptic has regularly, and persistently half-assed a LOT of the things they have done. They promise us the moon, and we get a moon-pie. They've provided little additions, but nothing substantial in years. There's a LOT to be desired with this game. It's shallow, hollow, and in desperate need of love. It's always been one step away from being something great, and it's really hard to tell if it's because of a lack of time, resources or capability.
Yes, this does mean that the devs will often get harsh criticisms. That's what happens when you can't/don't/won't push forward new ideas and dedicate yourself towards making them something new. A lot of the releases have a fair amount of positives, but ultimately, they are tarnished by negative aspects of the game. Now, it seems that developers have been taken away from the game to work on other products. This doesn't help things at all.
When you have a playerbase that, quite rightly, has high expectations of a company, such as a working product, regular updates, continuation of past updates, and a lack of gimmick-ness; they will naturally become upset when follow-through isn't implemented. They will vocalize such. You can choose to whimper, hide your head and run away.
Or you can face these as they are: challenges for the team to do better. Imagine a game where those players were listened to, and the changes made that the players asked for. Not in some half-way point manner, but in its entirety. We could have comic series like STO does, and it -should- do well. If there's something wonky? Fix it! Something the players don't like? Why? How can it be improved and Improve it!
(I am waving a handful of cash while I say) YES, PLEASE! I'LL PAY FOR THAT!
I have to second Gator's post. Coming from 8 years of CoH, both the potential for greatness and the signs of neglect in this game are obvious. If this game got HALF of the amount and quality of Dev attention that CoH was getting over the last few years, it would be a spectacular game. I just don't see how it makes any kind of sense, financial or otherwise, for them to neglect it to death. ESPECIALLY with the ready-made awesome PnP content and all of the incoming CoH people WANTING to like it so badly so that they have a new home.
I have NO problem with a you-scratch-our-backs-and-we'll-scratch-yours relationship with a game. Give me a GREAT game to play, with content and fun gameplay (not just "stuff") and I will give you my hard earned money with a grin on my face. Just use SOME of it on Developers, please!
I asked a Dev in game yesterday about the foundry and she stated that given its cost and time investment to port to CO (won't readily port as it did for neverwinter, guess different code base), that it is on "indefinite hold".
I even said that we'd pay for it if possible, and she thought it was a great match to CO but looks like it will never happen (last part is my observation).
(I am waving a handful of cash while I say) YES, PLEASE! I'LL PAY FOR THAT!
I have to second Gator's post. Coming from 8 years of CoH, both the potential for greatness and the signs of neglect in this game are obvious. If this game got HALF of the amount and quality of Dev attention that CoH was getting over the last few years, it would be a spectacular game. I just don't see how it makes any kind of sense, financial or otherwise, for them to neglect it to death. ESPECIALLY with the ready-made awesome PnP content and all of the incoming CoH people WANTING to like it so badly so that they have a new home.
I have NO problem with a you-scratch-our-backs-and-we'll-scratch-yours relationship with a game. Give me a GREAT game to play, with content and fun gameplay (not just "stuff") and I will give you my hard earned money with a grin on my face. Just use SOME of it on Developers, please!
LOL so much for jack emerts lie of well get it if can show 50 people are interested if even, what 200 arent enough. Not that I expected it would be happening anyway.
LOL so much for jack emerts lie of well get it if can show 50 people are interested if even, what 200 arent enough. Not that I expected it would be happening anyway.
Hard to lie about something when you didn't say you would or wouldn't do it to begin with.
I asked a Dev in game yesterday about the foundry and she stated that given its cost and time investment to port to CO (won't readily port as it did for neverwinter, guess different code base), that it is on "indefinite hold".
QUOTE]
this is the part that i dont really understand. they added it to sto, it was a instant hit. then came talks we might get it. we got excited then came news neverwinter was going to get it. again we are put on the back burner. now it sound this will be the only game that wont get it. when the 4th game gets announced.
and to me thats messed up. they had no issue adding it to city of heroes right before they sold it to ncsoft.
i beilived in tis game. it had soo much potental to be as good or better then city of. now it seems as if they dont want this game to live anymore.
I asked a Dev in game yesterday about the foundry and she stated that given its cost and time investment to port to CO (won't readily port as it did for neverwinter, guess different code base), that it is on "indefinite hold".
QUOTE]
this is the part that i dont really understand. they added it to sto, it was a instant hit. then came talks we might get it. we got excited then came news neverwinter was going to get it. again we are put on the back burner. now it sound this will be the only game that wont get it. when the 4th game gets announced.
and to me thats messed up. they had no issue adding it to city of heroes right before they sold it to ncsoft.
i beilived in tis game. it had soo much potental to be as good or better then city of. now it seems as if they dont want this game to live anymore.
LOL so much for jack emerts lie of well get it if can show 50 people are interested if even, what 200 arent enough. Not that I expected it would be happening anyway.
Sigh, yeah..get our hopes up with no real intent of doing anything... depressing... if there were any competitive product halfway decent I'd be gone
You know, I was all gung-ho about this idea (even though the chance of it happening is very close to 0), but after going through Foundry some more with STO... yeah. No.
It's HIDEOUSLY frustrating to work your hiney off to make cool content, only to have the vast bulk of the players be either antagonistic or disinterested, plus have to deal with Cryptic being dismissive of your contribution.
DStahl blamed the authors participating in Foundry for the fact that, for a year, there were clickie missions where you could run in, hit a button, complete a mission. We didn't 'police ourselves enough.'
Just recently, when some notable authors in the community started getting a bit amusingly snarky about the current grinder situation (where do-nothing exploit missions are drowning the listings so it's hard to even FIND story missions), a mod took time to chide them, saying that they are 'contributing to the problem.'
Meanwhile, a number of posters who filled the threads with antagonistic, derisive comments about 'elitist authors being all prissy because nobody is bothering to read their walls of text' ... Cryptic apparently doesn't care.
I'm now wondering what kind of nightmare Neverwinter's Foundry is going to be.
So, tl;dr: Cryptic is extremely unlikely to manage a proper UGC system, so don't wish it on CO.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
You know, I was all gung-ho about this idea (even though the chance of it happening is very close to 0), but after going through Foundry some more with STO... yeah. No.
It's HIDEOUSLY frustrating to work your hiney off to make cool content, only to have the vast bulk of the players be either antagonistic or disinterested, plus have to deal with Cryptic being dismissive of your contribution.
DStahl blamed the authors participating in Foundry for the fact that, for a year, there were clickie missions where you could run in, hit a button, complete a mission. We didn't 'police ourselves enough.'
Just recently, when some notable authors in the community started getting a bit amusingly snarky about the current grinder situation (where do-nothing exploit missions are drowning the listings so it's hard to even FIND story missions), a mod took time to chide them, saying that they are 'contributing to the problem.'
Meanwhile, a number of posters who filled the threads with antagonistic, derisive comments about 'elitist authors being all prissy because nobody is bothering to read their walls of text' ... Cryptic apparently doesn't care.
I'm now wondering what kind of nightmare Neverwinter's Foundry is going to be.
So, tl;dr: Cryptic is extremely unlikely to manage a proper UGC system, so don't wish it on CO.
And yet players like me enjoy playing story missions in the Foundry. The only issue I have with it at all is the grinder missions filling the search screen making it harder to find real missions.
I offered a temporary help by mentioning that CoH MA authors began creating their own "tags" to add to their missions to make them easier to search on. It worked fairly well there, but it's only a stopgap until the Foundry UI can be updated.
Hopefully these are learning experiences that will help with further developing the tools. It has been mentioned a number of times that once the NW tools are finished, much of the tech will be rolled into the STO version as well.
I've participated in the same STO thread you have; I didn't see anything to make me fly off the handle and shout gloom and doom.
The Foundry is a fun, useful tool and great enhancement to STO -- in spite of those who abuse it. I just ignore their stuff and do those missions I enjoy.
I vote no, not that it makes a difference, but my money is my money and if they are making foundry for other games like neverwinter and sto, then why the hell would i use my money just so champs can get it?
first of all it should be paramount that the devs would include this in game not brought up by the player base and paid for by the player base, how dare jack emmert consider this in the first place, complete idiot, neglected the game for well over a year now and they think we will cough up the goods? lazy as hell, and i predict (without the broken telepathy powers either) that this game will be shutting down november time.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
You know, I was all gung-ho about this idea (even though the chance of it happening is very close to 0), but after going through Foundry some more with STO... yeah. No.
It's HIDEOUSLY frustrating to work your hiney off to make cool content, only to have the vast bulk of the players be either antagonistic or disinterested, plus have to deal with Cryptic being dismissive of your contribution.
DStahl blamed the authors participating in Foundry for the fact that, for a year, there were clickie missions where you could run in, hit a button, complete a mission. We didn't 'police ourselves enough.'
Just recently, when some notable authors in the community started getting a bit amusingly snarky about the current grinder situation (where do-nothing exploit missions are drowning the listings so it's hard to even FIND story missions), a mod took time to chide them, saying that they are 'contributing to the problem.'
Meanwhile, a number of posters who filled the threads with antagonistic, derisive comments about 'elitist authors being all prissy because nobody is bothering to read their walls of text' ... Cryptic apparently doesn't care.
I'm now wondering what kind of nightmare Neverwinter's Foundry is going to be.
So, tl;dr: Cryptic is extremely unlikely to manage a proper UGC system, so don't wish it on CO.
This is exactly the problem City of Heroes ran into with the Architect Entertainment system. Players taking advantage of things to make simple, low risk, high reward missions and then grinding the everloving frell out of them.
And originally, Paragon did the same thing. "You didn't police yourselves enough."
When it got out of hand and Paragon stepped in....entire story arcs got trashed due to nerfs and mechanics adjustments.
I am not surprised the Foundry is being abused in such a manner, and I also predict its further abuse in Neverwinter.
This is exactly the problem City of Heroes ran into with the Architect Entertainment system. Players taking advantage of things to make simple, low risk, high reward missions and then grinding the everloving frell out of them.
And originally, Paragon did the same thing. "You didn't police yourselves enough."
When it got out of hand and Paragon stepped in....entire story arcs got trashed due to nerfs and mechanics adjustments.
I am not surprised the Foundry is being abused in such a manner, and I also predict its further abuse in Neverwinter.
And yet again, many of us spent a lot of time in the MA writing and playing a plethora of good, solid, fun story content -- despite the junk that ended up there as well.
One thing more annoying and destructive than the exploiters is those who declare UGC a failure and want to eliminate it for everyone, just to spite the exploiters.
Don't take away a powerful storytelling tool from the rest of us just because others don't use it the way it is meant to be used.
Any UGC will most likely be abused to a certain extent; that is not a valid reason to take it away from those who don't abuse it.
Comments
When and if this ever hits Kickstarter, I will support it on Day 1.
I guess it is, to some. If you would have read the second half, where i said ( All SARCASM aside) what you quoted was not meant to be SARCASTIC! Only the first part!
Bud.
Back on topic. I think anything new and engaging could be helpful at this point.
Foundry? Well, i guess looking at it as a way to keep lifers and subs from up and leaving or giving new players a sense of something they might be familiar with from other games...it couldn't hurt.
Hell, any sign of life from the PWE or Cryptic would be nice in the form of something "new" that doesn't involve lock boxes and Alerts!
However, once the new year begins, it will be time to start poking Jack again.
*readies cattle-prod*
...What?
I'd rather get STO's level of lockbox suck if worthwhile updates come with it. -Buxom
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Just sent to Jack Emmert on FB:
Hi Jack, I know this is a bit anonymous but I've been an avid player of your first venture CoH from 2003 as a paid subscriber until its recent shutdown. I've now come over to champions online as a Gold member and am really enjoying the experience. However as I review the forums, there is a great deal of interest in porting the Foundry to CO from STO or NeverWinter. Sorry to have try and reach you this way but I didn't see any dev response on the forums. Would it be possible to get the Foundry into CO? We LOVED the creativity in Mission Architect and would love to extend and exploit the champions online Lore in a similar fashion with the Foundry. Or conversely, if there are no plans for it, and in fact, no plans to really do much more with CO in general, then can a dev at least come on and state that so that the subscriber base has an idea as to the future of the game? We are constantly speculating, and as a new CoH refugee, it seems that this is a prime opportunity for CO to increase its subscriber base with so many CoX players looking for a home. Thank you. (DeathSentry at Guardian and now DeathSentry2012 in CO)
I bet he never responds.
Sigh.. I know you're probably right.. must admit, I may have gotten spoiled in CoH with at least the devs responding or being in-game from time to time.. I honestly don't know where else to turn in order to get at least some feedback/indication of where this is all heading
I do hope I am wrong!-I find myself saying that about alot of my views on CO lately...
Facebook is harder to ignore.
Make sure you invite him to your friend list first, otherwise the message will go in the "other" section of the messages. Facebook don't tell you if you got a message in there, only the Inbox.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
CellarRat33 :: formerly Bsquared
***
"The great thing about glory unending is that it's dirt cheap!" - Tateklys
From the Adventures of Thundrax (canadascott)
***
This would make champions online whole lot more cooler to play. :biggrin:
Foundry, please! STAT!
You could simply flex some willpower muscle and ignore the thread for a while. It's not that hard.
I still fully support what this thread is attempting to accomplish.
RIP Caine
No.
.
*Wants the thread to die. Bumps it anyway.*
You're doing it wrong.
STO has 200 quality missions created from players. This far outweighs the dev time put into it to make sure the tools it has makes those missions as high quality as the ones created by the devs themselves.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Cryptic has regularly, and persistently half-assed a LOT of the things they have done. They promise us the moon, and we get a moon-pie. They've provided little additions, but nothing substantial in years. There's a LOT to be desired with this game. It's shallow, hollow, and in desperate need of love. It's always been one step away from being something great, and it's really hard to tell if it's because of a lack of time, resources or capability.
Yes, this does mean that the devs will often get harsh criticisms. That's what happens when you can't/don't/won't push forward new ideas and dedicate yourself towards making them something new. A lot of the releases have a fair amount of positives, but ultimately, they are tarnished by negative aspects of the game. Now, it seems that developers have been taken away from the game to work on other products. This doesn't help things at all.
When you have a playerbase that, quite rightly, has high expectations of a company, such as a working product, regular updates, continuation of past updates, and a lack of gimmick-ness; they will naturally become upset when follow-through isn't implemented. They will vocalize such. You can choose to whimper, hide your head and run away.
Or you can face these as they are: challenges for the team to do better. Imagine a game where those players were listened to, and the changes made that the players asked for. Not in some half-way point manner, but in its entirety. We could have comic series like STO does, and it -should- do well. If there's something wonky? Fix it! Something the players don't like? Why? How can it be improved and Improve it!
Do something!
I have to second Gator's post. Coming from 8 years of CoH, both the potential for greatness and the signs of neglect in this game are obvious. If this game got HALF of the amount and quality of Dev attention that CoH was getting over the last few years, it would be a spectacular game. I just don't see how it makes any kind of sense, financial or otherwise, for them to neglect it to death. ESPECIALLY with the ready-made awesome PnP content and all of the incoming CoH people WANTING to like it so badly so that they have a new home.
I have NO problem with a you-scratch-our-backs-and-we'll-scratch-yours relationship with a game. Give me a GREAT game to play, with content and fun gameplay (not just "stuff") and I will give you my hard earned money with a grin on my face. Just use SOME of it on Developers, please!
I even said that we'd pay for it if possible, and she thought it was a great match to CO but looks like it will never happen (last part is my observation).
Hard to lie about something when you didn't say you would or wouldn't do it to begin with.
Sigh, yeah..get our hopes up with no real intent of doing anything... depressing... if there were any competitive product halfway decent I'd be gone
It's HIDEOUSLY frustrating to work your hiney off to make cool content, only to have the vast bulk of the players be either antagonistic or disinterested, plus have to deal with Cryptic being dismissive of your contribution.
DStahl blamed the authors participating in Foundry for the fact that, for a year, there were clickie missions where you could run in, hit a button, complete a mission. We didn't 'police ourselves enough.'
Just recently, when some notable authors in the community started getting a bit amusingly snarky about the current grinder situation (where do-nothing exploit missions are drowning the listings so it's hard to even FIND story missions), a mod took time to chide them, saying that they are 'contributing to the problem.'
Meanwhile, a number of posters who filled the threads with antagonistic, derisive comments about 'elitist authors being all prissy because nobody is bothering to read their walls of text' ... Cryptic apparently doesn't care.
I'm now wondering what kind of nightmare Neverwinter's Foundry is going to be.
So, tl;dr: Cryptic is extremely unlikely to manage a proper UGC system, so don't wish it on CO.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
And yet players like me enjoy playing story missions in the Foundry. The only issue I have with it at all is the grinder missions filling the search screen making it harder to find real missions.
I offered a temporary help by mentioning that CoH MA authors began creating their own "tags" to add to their missions to make them easier to search on. It worked fairly well there, but it's only a stopgap until the Foundry UI can be updated.
Hopefully these are learning experiences that will help with further developing the tools. It has been mentioned a number of times that once the NW tools are finished, much of the tech will be rolled into the STO version as well.
I've participated in the same STO thread you have; I didn't see anything to make me fly off the handle and shout gloom and doom.
The Foundry is a fun, useful tool and great enhancement to STO -- in spite of those who abuse it. I just ignore their stuff and do those missions I enjoy.
I still vote a resounding yes to adding to CO.
first of all it should be paramount that the devs would include this in game not brought up by the player base and paid for by the player base, how dare jack emmert consider this in the first place, complete idiot, neglected the game for well over a year now and they think we will cough up the goods? lazy as hell, and i predict (without the broken telepathy powers either) that this game will be shutting down november time.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
This is exactly the problem City of Heroes ran into with the Architect Entertainment system. Players taking advantage of things to make simple, low risk, high reward missions and then grinding the everloving frell out of them.
And originally, Paragon did the same thing. "You didn't police yourselves enough."
When it got out of hand and Paragon stepped in....entire story arcs got trashed due to nerfs and mechanics adjustments.
I am not surprised the Foundry is being abused in such a manner, and I also predict its further abuse in Neverwinter.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
And yet again, many of us spent a lot of time in the MA writing and playing a plethora of good, solid, fun story content -- despite the junk that ended up there as well.
One thing more annoying and destructive than the exploiters is those who declare UGC a failure and want to eliminate it for everyone, just to spite the exploiters.
Don't take away a powerful storytelling tool from the rest of us just because others don't use it the way it is meant to be used.
Any UGC will most likely be abused to a certain extent; that is not a valid reason to take it away from those who don't abuse it.