Batman never dying, though, is a metatextual thing. It lies outside your suspension of disbelief. Nowhere in DC comics is Batman portrayed as a never-dying immortal. When people die in the comics, even if we know they will be back later, (Unless you're Ted Kord {And DC can kiss my entire **** for that one.}) the story treats it as real. The cast reacts appropriately.
And while BATMAN doesn't die... yeah, some people stay dead. And that possibility makes things interesting.
Now if someone is KNOWN to go on forever and never end and is immortal, well, they better be someone we want to see around all the time.
Unfortunately, there's quite a long list of heroes (and villains) who have been killed and returned to the land of the living quite easily. Even if the characters within the story believe the character is going to die, the fact that certain characters are just too popular to kill off for good diminishes the whole thing for me as a reader.
The issue is though that the OP mentions people in CO role playing god or demon-like characters. The gods within the Champions IP can all "die" if they are starved of faith and attention by those that worship them, or other beings around them.
This has led some of them to some rather drastic measures to ensure that they don't fade away. Which in essence isn't much different as to why Batman is still around, he's sometimes well written, but most important he is remarkably popular, and has the most attention out of all of the DC characters.
Okay, great updates for everyone. Well, 'great' is a bit of a stretch here.
Demon players:
Look, I'm not saying YOU MUST READ CHAMPS LORE. I'm just saying that you should start excercising common sense. Since a vast majority of 'demons' have 'he/she was once a normal guy/girl' in their profile, then your character inhabits a mortal body. That body, being made of organic matter, can be destroyed and force your demon to return to where it came or find a new host body. This is not something I've sat here and made up to make the game fair. It's in nearly ANY media where demons have taken a mortal host. I'm not even kidding. Look into it.
If you are an actual demon, as in, created in hell and are now on earth, it would probably do you well to look into some media surrounded that. Yes, you are powerful. But you will probably have a serious issue- Demons need power to survive and maintain physical form. Think of the demon as a Supercomputer with stereo surround sound and a karaoke machine- now go and try to play that off the power socket in your car. Doesn't work, does it? Not for long, at least. Despite Spawn being a waste of paper after issue 50, it had a great example of demon power- it is finite and it must be recharged. Have you ever wondered why Darkheart doesn't show up on Earth and just flatten everyone? Not to mention this- how did you get out of hell? Why didn't ALL the demons get out? Why hasn't anyone been sent to bring you back?
Vampires:
Seriously, most vampire players are just as bad as Stephanie Meyer. I'm okay with a few additions to the basic Vampire power set- blood magic, teleportation, hardened claws, etc. But most Vampire bios, what do they say?
"Immune to sunlight, objects of faith weilded by true believers, garlic, etc."
In other words, I see this:
"I want pale skin, and I want to drink blood, and I want to live forever."
You might as well add sparkles to your wish list. Just as bad as Meyer.
Oh, and making eye contact to dominate someone and have your way with them? Rape. Welcome to Wraith's hit-list, those ashes will flush nicely at the truck stop.
Magic users:
A lot of you are good at what you do, and I can't fault you at all. Keep on doin' what you do.
However, in EVERY media, a magic-user has limitations (more so than most other types). Magic often times is a basic 'I can do whatever because MAGIC'. You're full of crap. Constantly, people are hurling complex spells with no components or preparations at all- you just close your eyes and fart a made-up solution to what you're dealing with because MAGIC. No particular school or type of magic, just MAGIC. All up in your mouth. Whatever. This is why I ignore 90% of you. No point in playing someone who can just MAGIC up a solution to every problem. Just go play by yourself.
I'm guilty of the vampires-being-immune-to-sunlight thing myself, but my vampire character is intended to be a walking parody and an ode to ridiculous character concepts. A vampire ninja bunny created from the Bludhound project because they thought it'd be a HILARIOUS idea at a time has full right to be immune to sunlight because, hey, she needs to level in a timely manner. ;D
And, to be fair, Vampire: the Masquerade nerds (which isn't Champs lore but there's some crossover in the fanbases) will know that
A. Garlic has no effect.
B. Running water won't work.
and, most importantly,
C. If someone is waving a cross at you, you might as well just bend them over and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
Don't be surprised when this comes up! It can be facepalm-worthy, but take solace in the fact that riddling them with bullets or stabbing them a lot will kill them just as well as anyone else!
Not that they'd ever NEED to, of course. If they're doing it right NOBODY WILL EVEN KNOW THEY'RE A VAMPIRE. And if they wave their Dominate powers over you, shrug it off. You're a hero. You've resisted Menton's faaaaaaar more powerful mental influence, you've fought out of the confines of your own mind in Demonflame, you've snapped out of a Sanguinarian's sleep spell so you could punch them in their stupid face before they chow down, you can handle a level 6 vampire looking at you funny.
C. If someone is waving a cross at you, you might as well just bend them over and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
I thought the wielder, if armed with true faith, could do something.
Not that they'd ever NEED to, of course. If they're doing it right NOBODY WILL EVEN KNOW THEY'RE A VAMPIRE. And if they wave their Dominate powers over you, shrug it off. You're a hero. You've resisted Menton's faaaaaaar more powerful mental influence, you've fought out of the confines of your own mind in Demonflame, you've snapped out of a Sanguinarian's sleep spell so you could punch them in their stupid face before they chow down, you can handle a level 6 vampire looking at you funny.
I always perceived holy symbols in fiction as a kind of divine magic. Holy symbol is only a focus for channeling divine powers but person must have taken a "few levels in cleric" to successfully perform acts of faith.
I.e. he must be some kind of professional exorcist or paladin with proper "divine" training.
As for the demons...
Long time ago I came with a concept for demonic-powered character. She was an ordinary girl accidentally attacked and killed by the demon. Not by some sexy succubus, her murderer was real footsoldier of Hell, big, hulking, ugly monstrosity summoned by the bunch of irresponsible wannabe occultists. Eventually this creature was slain by police and superheroes but not before he murdered a lot of people in his rampage and Jessica was hist last victim. So she was dead and her corpse was literally bathed in demonic blood and she started to mutate. It resurrected her, but also warped her eternally to the new form.
She ended taller and stronger, looking not unlike She-Hulk but with graphite gray skin, big leathery wings and tail, and not very happy because of this.
In terms of powers she was typical brick character, with superhuman strength, durability and healing factor - because she inherited abilities of her murderer, who was only a hellspawn brick.
Drawing this character really was fun.
Mages...
The only serious mage on my roster is your typical DnD warmage thrown into the modern world. This guy was trained in quick spellcasting and wearing armour. He's also sturdier than average spellcaster.
On the other side his spellist is rather limited. Jovar never bothered himself with learning spells that do not have direct use in combat. He may materialise rocks from thin air, turn it into diament sharp projectiles and throw at enemies, he may even imbue attacks with magic for hurting enemies who are immune for physical assault, but not much except this.
He knows how to detect magic, illusions or supernatural creatures, but this requires him to perform an incantation and takes time. He can imbue his allies weapons with magic, even firearms, but this enchantment also requires times and lasts only for hours.
So in terms of power he's rather specialised - but in his world he was only a warmage supporting troops.
I'll just leave this little gem from last night here:
Demoness (talking to a Nightcrawler clone): "So, why would you want to be human again? That's silly!"
Dr. Kaufmann (Walking by with a cocktail in his hand): "Come on, what's so bad about humans?"
Demoness: "Well, they are weak, fragile, irrational and prone to slip into unnecessary emotions!"
Dr. Kaufmann: "You mean like... arrogance?"
There's plenty of vampires or vampire-like creatures from myths and legends from around the world that aren't actually harmed by sunlight, for example Poland had the Upier; a vampire that rises at mid-day to hunt and returns to sleep at midnight. But even looking closely some western folklore, vampires were generally believed to be more active at night, however they were not generally considered vulnerable to sunlight itself.
Seriously, most vampire players are just as bad as Stephanie Meyer. I'm okay with a few additions to the basic Vampire power set- blood magic, teleportation, hardened claws, etc. But most Vampire bios, what do they say?
"Immune to sunlight, objects of faith weilded by true believers, garlic, etc."
In other words, I see this:
"I want pale skin, and I want to drink blood, and I want to live forever."
You might as well add sparkles to your wish list. Just as bad as Meyer.
Oh, and making eye contact to dominate someone and have your way with them? Rape. Welcome to Wraith's hit-list, those ashes will flush nicely at the truck stop.
Ok, look, not all vampires that walk in the sunlight are from Twilight. Anne Rice's Lestat did it toward the end of her stories, and they predate Twilight vampies by a considerable number of years. Infact, the whole sunlight thing wasn't even a factor with vampires, at all, until Brahm Stoker's writings. If you're going to unilaterally declare one book invalid, then you can expect others to unilaterally declare other books invalid.
I've recently been playing a vampire character who isn't immune to the sun, but she doesn't just instantly vamporize either. If she wears very powerful sunscreen, she can stay in the sun for about an hour before she has to find shade. It's also only direct sunlight that works, so reflected sunlight, i.e. ambient light in the day time has no effect. The reason for this is VERY SIMPLE. I'm not about to have a freak out every time a shadow moves in a zone in the day time. Nor am I going to only play the character when the sun is down in the zone. The resistance to the sun is more of a necessity than it is about violating vampire lore. If the game had a sun mechanic for vampire characters, I'd gladly accept it.
Yes, she's immune to holy stuff, but only with qualification. You know why? In some media, that stuff is wholly psychosomatic on vampires. It reminds them of their previous faith in life. My vampire character was, and is, an atheist. So she's not affected by mere faith and crucifixes. Beings like Therakiel, to her, are just really powerful extra-dimensional beings. If such a being were to actually infuse an object with power, it could harm her but only if it's expected to harm anything else that's undead. Neither I nor my vampire character consider such things "holy", just "imbued with power".
A wooden cross isn't going to do jack unless you stake her with it, and a silver one won't do anything unless you touch her with it. Otherwise your best bet is to use holy objects as conventional weapons rather than relying on any kind of special powers.
If it won't work on zombies, ghouls, or anything else, it won't work on her. Just because a weakness is popular doesn't mean that it's a good weakness. Also about the sun, if you observe the Elder Scrolls games, vampires take extra damage damaged by silver and they only suffer a minor debuff in the sun.
As for garlic, she's not immune to it, she LOVES it. Garlic is super tasty. Om nom nom nom. SEriously, the garlic thing is over done. The garlic thing predates modern vampire lore by so much that the vampires garlic was supposed to ward off isn't even really what we would consider to be vampires. They were evil spirits that would do things like possess rusty door latches or nails, then deliberately cut someone and give them tetanus.
Running water works but only because she doesn't like to get wet, she's a bit of a girly girl and hates getting dirty.
As for eye contact to dominate? Not so much, but if you listen to her for long enough, you might go mad. On the planned additions to her powers are Soul Mesmerism with Glossolalia, and a confusion power. It's not really seduction, more inducing temporary insanity. This is because I roleplay her as basically a VTM Malkavian, but without the Masquerade to worry about. With so many supers running around, there's little point in maintaining any kind of masquerade.
As for the balance and flaws for the character. She has to take meds every day for her schizophrenia. Due to her schizophrenia, she's very vulnerable to psychic attacks. At the very least, just being in contact with psychic powers can weaken or eliminate the benefit she gets from her meds. She went a little loopy after going after Psimon. Even if someone isn't psychic, they can still mess with her mind.
She's also fairly easy to seduce. All you really need is to look cool, not look like a dork in tights, and know what buttons to push. However, I draw the line at ERP.
So there you have it, if the sun is out, hit her with a fire hose to wash off the sunscreen and she'll run off in fear of being burned by the sun. Use silver weapons and/or psychic powers. Or just look really really attractive and she'll get all starry eyed and let her guard down.
Don't be so quick to judge people playing vampires just because their character doesn't have the usual response to the usual stimulus. If anybody could just wave garlic around and presto, vampire repellant, isn't that just a wee bit overpowered in itself?
(edit) I'm tempted to delete this entire post and just basically repeat back at you what you said, but with the rules for Jiang-shi, the Chinse form of vampires. They hop around with their feet together and their arms held out. Also, their major weakness, aside from pieces of paper with spells cast on them, is having to stop and count anything thrown before them, such as grains of rice. That's actually where Count von Count from Sesame Street gets his counting fetish from.
Of course I once ran a tabletop game where I incorporated this counting obsession into all vampires. But the older vampires were extremely adept at counting. They'd simply look at what was thrown, announce the number and continue on. As crowd control it was about as effective as pointing and saying "look, it's Countess Bathory going skinny dipping!" They might instinctually glance just because o the pointing, but they aren't necessarily going to be fooled by it.
Ok, look, not all vampires that walk in the sunlight are from Twilight. Anne Rice's Lestat did it toward the end of her stories, and they predate Twilight vampies by a considerable number of years. Infact, the whole sunlight thing wasn't even a factor with vampires, at all, until Brahm Stoker's writings. If you're going to unilaterally declare one book invalid, then you can expect others to unilaterally declare other books invalid.
Anne Rice isn't something good to proclaim your argument for, since her dross was just a more pro LGBT version of what Twilight is. As far as Dracula, he got weaker in the daylight, but unlike Anne Rice and Stephenie's version, he was still a monster.
Anne Rice isn't something good to proclaim your argument for, since her dross was just a more pro LGBT version of what Twilight is. As far as Dracula, he got weaker in the daylight, but unlike Anne Rice and Stephenie's version, he was still a monster.
Still, the point is that more than vampires being afraid of the sun. And yes of course you're right about Stoker's Dracula. As for Anne Rice and LGBT friendly... would you believe that was unintentional on her part? Rice has this habit of writing books that end up with a cult following that sexualizes the content in her books, and ends up absolutely mortified. It also happened with her Sleeping Beauty series. After she wrong the Sleeping Beauty Trilogy she ended up meeting some people who actually turned the content of her books into a lifestyle. That's why there haven't been any further books. Not that I care, I hate that series.
And honestly, an LGBT friendly version of Twilight? That is such a completely gross misrepresentation that I don't even know where to begin. Read the damn books. There's no pedophile vampires in them, there's no werewolves that tear open wombs. There's no sparkling. The books are considerably darker with more interesting characters than Meyer is capable of producing. I'm not a fan of Anne Rice, but I'm not going to sit idly by while you spread ignorance and lies about her books or anyone else's.
I don't agree with the entirety of Anne Rice's books, but she helped develop the modern version of vampires. She laid down the foundation for everything that came after. Vampires as you know and prefer them probably wouldn't exist without her books. She added more to the mythos than any other single writer in history. There's slews of books, movies, tv shows, and games that all revolve around the more interesting additions she added to the genre.
I look at Anne Rice's books as a kind of character study on vampires who have refused to give up their humanity, vs those who have given it up. I also see them as an inspiration for the Canadian tv show, Forever Knight, and for the tabletop game Vampire: The Masquerade.
I rather like VTM even though I rather dislike vampires in general. VTM has so many interesting dynamics at play. I once played a Gangrel that went on an expedition to find a book that possessed knowledge that could destroy either werewolves or vampires depending on whose hands it was in. Here's the twist, the expedition was all werewolves. My gangrel vampire simply wore a cloak in the day time. At the end of the campaign, she killed every last one of the werewolves in the party using the book. The other players were like "wtf?! a vampire?!" "but I saw her turn into a wolf!" "and she was walking around in the sun". The GM simply said "what you saw was a gangrel turning into a wolf, gangrels are vampires and they can do that, and you saw her wearing a hooded cloak in the sunlight." It was the most awesome plot twist I ever helped a GM create!
My point is that one shouldn't judge a vampire character solely on the basis that its weaknesses don't match up to your concept of what a proper vampire should do. After having created this character, I keep being lectured by different players on different things. It seems everybody and their grandmother is trying to tell me how to properly play a vampire when I've got the basics down.
1: Drink blood to restore health and/or power. Check
2: Vulnerable to direct sunlight, even if sunlight isn't instant death. Check.
3: Vulnerable to specific weapons such as silver, check.
So why do I have one person telling me that I absolutely must use what he calls "shade gel" because "all the good vampires know to use it in the sun" and any deviation from his prescription makes my vampire be from Twilight? Why do I have another person telling me that I have to stink like a corpse? Then there's one who says I shouldn't be playing heavy weapons, I should be playing beastial/supernatural for the claws because vampires all have long fingernails? There's another person who says I should just use Bite and not Devour Essence because bite is animated properly.
It's my character, I have checks and balances. I'm adhere to a concept. I took regeneration because it fits vampire concepts when I instead prefer to use invulnerability on my builds. So don't presume to try to force the false dichotomy of "you're either a Twilight vampire or you're not a Twilight vampire" down my throat. I'm not doing Twilight and I'm not incorporating any elements from Twilight, even if I'm incorporating some elements that Twilight got from some place else. My character doesn't sparkle in the light and isn't a pedophile. So enough with trying to browbeat me about not drawing from that book. I hate Twilight just as much as any other sane person.
Dabbling with a half-vampire (Dhampyr) currently, part of a trifecta of physical characters I've been poking at due to spending a lot of time playing ranged blasters of late.
Nightbreed is, pretty much, a standard package -- strong and tough, but unlike msot has a thirst to contend with, and its loosely ES-inspired in that she needs to feed or eventually the 'Beast' gets loose and gorges, innocents get hurt. She hates herself for it. Off-color eyes, thin, pale, slightly off in the ears -- going on the models of vamps in-game for a lessened "game face". Sunlight's not an issue (though she dislikes it on principle and burns painfully and quickly -- by human standards, has an allergy to silver, and has notable OCD issues, especially counting. That last one really doesn't get enough play....
She also wears white, more out of disgust with the stereotype, and partly due to the striking affect it has on her near-ivory complexion.
And notably tends to severe dislike pureblood vampires, due to instinctive nature and upbringing.
..decent enough explanation for a Bestial Supernatural Str/Con type, methink...
I think, honestly, the closest I have to a demon or god character is Sun Deer. Who really isn't either. More of a cosmic anomaly forced into a scientific abomination in the form of a deer with antlers and breasts who's also a bit of a punk and acts like she hates you when in reality she likes you. But female deer don't have antlers, you say. I honestly forgot that when I was making her. Except now I've got her as a human female. So she's not even that anymore.
Dabbling with a half-vampire (Dhampyr) currently, part of a trifecta of physical characters I've been poking at due to spending a lot of time playing ranged blasters of late.
Nightbreed is, pretty much, a standard package -- strong and tough, but unlike msot has a thirst to contend with, and its loosely ES-inspired in that she needs to feed or eventually the 'Beast' gets loose and gorges, innocents get hurt. She hates herself for it. Off-color eyes, thin, pale, slightly off in the ears -- going on the models of vamps in-game for a lessened "game face". Sunlight's not an issue (though she dislikes it on principle and burns painfully and quickly -- by human standards, has an allergy to silver, and has notable OCD issues, especially counting. That last one really doesn't get enough play....
She also wears white, more out of disgust with the stereotype, and partly due to the striking affect it has on her near-ivory complexion.
And notably tends to severe dislike pureblood vampires, due to instinctive nature and upbringing.
..decent enough explanation for a Bestial Supernatural Str/Con type, methink...
My vampire character wears a mixture of black, white, and red. Not necessarily in that order. But most of her outfits have all 3 colors being prominent and used in a manner that just looks cool without looking goth. Here's some examples of the some of her outfits. Basically I figured she's a non-conformist, and the only non-conformists that aren't like all other non-conformists are lunatics. So she kind of makes her own style. Except for the harajuku thing. That was the first costume I'd made for her before I made the other two.
I know its an old topic... But I just joined CO coming from 8 years of RP on COX as Elizabeth Bathory as a witch and a vampire...
RP-ing a vampire and even a character of history shouldn't and wasnt a prob for me. As long as you keep the vulnerabilities in check. In my case I keep using Bram Stokers Dracula as guideline... No Twilight for me.. or even the scientific Blade or Underworld.
That means that the older vampires are able to walk in sunlight... but as Bram Stoker writes.. 'It is not their natural time and are weakened'. And ofcourse I could have some shades ready.
Keeping Stoker means you need a regular rest in native soil, are scared away by holy symbols in a believers hand and garlic is no fun to be near too. Stakes that actually ground the vampires heart to the earth is deadly.. and silver will stop the unnatural regeneration.
It also gives a few abilites extra.. making stronger... psychic, wallcrawling, command over wolves, minor weather control.
Only way to RP correctly is to stay vulnerable. Elizabeth is a proud aristocratic vain person... Fond of dresses and luxury. Makes her easy to find if you look for her too. Playing a villain also means to be scheming. And to have an adult look to the rp from both sides. I have absolutly no problem with losing and/or having my plans foiled. But it is my main so I cant have her destroyed. Simply accept that she will find loop holes to escape the death/destruction at the last minute. And I am game for all as villain in any plot.
Looks are rather old fashioned and yet also fashionable if needed. Shape and color shifts at the blood reserve rise or lower. As Bram Stoker writes... if the thirst is lessed the human color comes back and the vampire is able to hide between humans in plain sight.
There's plenty of vampires or vampire-like creatures from myths and legends from around the world that aren't actually harmed by sunlight, for example Poland had the Upier; a vampire that rises at mid-day to hunt and returns to sleep at midnight. But even looking closely some western folklore, vampires were generally believed to be more active at night, however they were not generally considered vulnerable to sunlight itself.
That the vampires are harmed from sunlight is an Hollywood invention. Dracula , for example in the Bram Stoker novel is seen to stroll around for London in day hours.
The legends instead say that all the evil creatures go away at cockcrow because it was at that hour that in the monasteries and convents they recited the morning prayers.
Of course such explanation would not be well accepted in today world so they come with "the sun burns vampires"
I think people worry too much on how others play or rp a character. Really, the lore is wide open to interpretation, as this is not a patrolled rp game. BUT, game it is, none the less. If one does not like the rp of another, then do not rp with them. Pretty simple. Communication also helps. You may be trying to rp with someone very young, or someone very inexperienced. Why rp'ers do not like to mentor anymore I do not know.
Always the best rp in any situation is to have a mix of strengths and weaknesses. My superman type characer, Paragon Vanguard, which is probably more Captain Marvel type, is very susceptible to magic. Toxins can enter his system through the air and his breathing, but it is very difficult to penetrate his skin. He heals up faster than normal people, but nowhere near the ability of Marvel's Wolverine. He can be pounded into unconsciousness if his adversary is also very strong, and no, he cannot move the world off of it's axis or cause it to spin backwards to go back in time. He is also susceptible to mental attacks, though he is very intelligent and can resist to a certain extent.
I also have a vampire character that I play, though have not played here, yet. Jerrin Bloodlett. He is weakened in sunlight, and will die in direct sunlight. Crosses, running water, garlic and the like do not effect him, but he is, surprisingly, a believer in Christianity. He can be rebuked by a true believer, but whether that is a mental or physical thing I have never, and never will, directly address. I simply do not know, and do not care to make it a matter. A stake through the heart, be it wood, metal, mahogany, plastic....etc......can kill him. It has to be left there until he turns to ash, which will take more than a few seconds. Something like, say, a knife to the chest, that is removed, will fell him, like anyone else. Anybody not knowing what he is will assume they killed him, but he will rise, though the time varies depending on how healthy he is, ie, how long ago he fed, how mentally stable he is...etc. Magic and sorcery effect him. He can turn others into vampires, but his failure rate far outweighs any success he has had, and his failures become undead slaves, something he does not desire, and usually dispatches them.
In RP, unless there is strict lore rules, on a game system like CO, you will be dealing with diverse thoughts on any and everything. Less mature rp'ers want to be the best at everything, more mature rp'ers understand that being unbeatale is as boring as... well, being Superman with only Lex Luthor as your archenemy.......without the kryptonite.
Comments
And while BATMAN doesn't die... yeah, some people stay dead. And that possibility makes things interesting.
Now if someone is KNOWN to go on forever and never end and is immortal, well, they better be someone we want to see around all the time.
Unfortunately, there's quite a long list of heroes (and villains) who have been killed and returned to the land of the living quite easily. Even if the characters within the story believe the character is going to die, the fact that certain characters are just too popular to kill off for good diminishes the whole thing for me as a reader.
The issue is though that the OP mentions people in CO role playing god or demon-like characters. The gods within the Champions IP can all "die" if they are starved of faith and attention by those that worship them, or other beings around them.
This has led some of them to some rather drastic measures to ensure that they don't fade away. Which in essence isn't much different as to why Batman is still around, he's sometimes well written, but most important he is remarkably popular, and has the most attention out of all of the DC characters.
Demon players:
Look, I'm not saying YOU MUST READ CHAMPS LORE. I'm just saying that you should start excercising common sense. Since a vast majority of 'demons' have 'he/she was once a normal guy/girl' in their profile, then your character inhabits a mortal body. That body, being made of organic matter, can be destroyed and force your demon to return to where it came or find a new host body. This is not something I've sat here and made up to make the game fair. It's in nearly ANY media where demons have taken a mortal host. I'm not even kidding. Look into it.
If you are an actual demon, as in, created in hell and are now on earth, it would probably do you well to look into some media surrounded that. Yes, you are powerful. But you will probably have a serious issue- Demons need power to survive and maintain physical form. Think of the demon as a Supercomputer with stereo surround sound and a karaoke machine- now go and try to play that off the power socket in your car. Doesn't work, does it? Not for long, at least. Despite Spawn being a waste of paper after issue 50, it had a great example of demon power- it is finite and it must be recharged. Have you ever wondered why Darkheart doesn't show up on Earth and just flatten everyone? Not to mention this- how did you get out of hell? Why didn't ALL the demons get out? Why hasn't anyone been sent to bring you back?
Vampires:
Seriously, most vampire players are just as bad as Stephanie Meyer. I'm okay with a few additions to the basic Vampire power set- blood magic, teleportation, hardened claws, etc. But most Vampire bios, what do they say?
"Immune to sunlight, objects of faith weilded by true believers, garlic, etc."
In other words, I see this:
"I want pale skin, and I want to drink blood, and I want to live forever."
You might as well add sparkles to your wish list. Just as bad as Meyer.
Oh, and making eye contact to dominate someone and have your way with them? Rape. Welcome to Wraith's hit-list, those ashes will flush nicely at the truck stop.
Magic users:
A lot of you are good at what you do, and I can't fault you at all. Keep on doin' what you do.
However, in EVERY media, a magic-user has limitations (more so than most other types). Magic often times is a basic 'I can do whatever because MAGIC'. You're full of crap. Constantly, people are hurling complex spells with no components or preparations at all- you just close your eyes and fart a made-up solution to what you're dealing with because MAGIC. No particular school or type of magic, just MAGIC. All up in your mouth. Whatever. This is why I ignore 90% of you. No point in playing someone who can just MAGIC up a solution to every problem. Just go play by yourself.
And, to be fair, Vampire: the Masquerade nerds (which isn't Champs lore but there's some crossover in the fanbases) will know that
A. Garlic has no effect.
B. Running water won't work.
and, most importantly,
C. If someone is waving a cross at you, you might as well just bend them over and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
Don't be surprised when this comes up! It can be facepalm-worthy, but take solace in the fact that riddling them with bullets or stabbing them a lot will kill them just as well as anyone else!
Not that they'd ever NEED to, of course. If they're doing it right NOBODY WILL EVEN KNOW THEY'RE A VAMPIRE. And if they wave their Dominate powers over you, shrug it off. You're a hero. You've resisted Menton's faaaaaaar more powerful mental influence, you've fought out of the confines of your own mind in Demonflame, you've snapped out of a Sanguinarian's sleep spell so you could punch them in their stupid face before they chow down, you can handle a level 6 vampire looking at you funny.
I thought the wielder, if armed with true faith, could do something.
Beautiful. I may quote this.
"If he's a vampire, how come he's not burning up right now?"
"Dracula could go out in the sun! He was just weaker."
EDIT: No, seriously, there are so many differences in vampires that Wikipedia has a freakin' chart for it.
I.e. he must be some kind of professional exorcist or paladin with proper "divine" training.
As for the demons...
Long time ago I came with a concept for demonic-powered character. She was an ordinary girl accidentally attacked and killed by the demon. Not by some sexy succubus, her murderer was real footsoldier of Hell, big, hulking, ugly monstrosity summoned by the bunch of irresponsible wannabe occultists. Eventually this creature was slain by police and superheroes but not before he murdered a lot of people in his rampage and Jessica was hist last victim. So she was dead and her corpse was literally bathed in demonic blood and she started to mutate. It resurrected her, but also warped her eternally to the new form.
She ended taller and stronger, looking not unlike She-Hulk but with graphite gray skin, big leathery wings and tail, and not very happy because of this.
In terms of powers she was typical brick character, with superhuman strength, durability and healing factor - because she inherited abilities of her murderer, who was only a hellspawn brick.
Drawing this character really was fun.
Mages...
The only serious mage on my roster is your typical DnD warmage thrown into the modern world. This guy was trained in quick spellcasting and wearing armour. He's also sturdier than average spellcaster.
On the other side his spellist is rather limited. Jovar never bothered himself with learning spells that do not have direct use in combat. He may materialise rocks from thin air, turn it into diament sharp projectiles and throw at enemies, he may even imbue attacks with magic for hurting enemies who are immune for physical assault, but not much except this.
He knows how to detect magic, illusions or supernatural creatures, but this requires him to perform an incantation and takes time. He can imbue his allies weapons with magic, even firearms, but this enchantment also requires times and lasts only for hours.
So in terms of power he's rather specialised - but in his world he was only a warmage supporting troops.
Demoness (talking to a Nightcrawler clone): "So, why would you want to be human again? That's silly!"
Dr. Kaufmann (Walking by with a cocktail in his hand): "Come on, what's so bad about humans?"
Demoness: "Well, they are weak, fragile, irrational and prone to slip into unnecessary emotions!"
Dr. Kaufmann: "You mean like... arrogance?"
Ok, look, not all vampires that walk in the sunlight are from Twilight. Anne Rice's Lestat did it toward the end of her stories, and they predate Twilight vampies by a considerable number of years. Infact, the whole sunlight thing wasn't even a factor with vampires, at all, until Brahm Stoker's writings. If you're going to unilaterally declare one book invalid, then you can expect others to unilaterally declare other books invalid.
I've recently been playing a vampire character who isn't immune to the sun, but she doesn't just instantly vamporize either. If she wears very powerful sunscreen, she can stay in the sun for about an hour before she has to find shade. It's also only direct sunlight that works, so reflected sunlight, i.e. ambient light in the day time has no effect. The reason for this is VERY SIMPLE. I'm not about to have a freak out every time a shadow moves in a zone in the day time. Nor am I going to only play the character when the sun is down in the zone. The resistance to the sun is more of a necessity than it is about violating vampire lore. If the game had a sun mechanic for vampire characters, I'd gladly accept it.
Yes, she's immune to holy stuff, but only with qualification. You know why? In some media, that stuff is wholly psychosomatic on vampires. It reminds them of their previous faith in life. My vampire character was, and is, an atheist. So she's not affected by mere faith and crucifixes. Beings like Therakiel, to her, are just really powerful extra-dimensional beings. If such a being were to actually infuse an object with power, it could harm her but only if it's expected to harm anything else that's undead. Neither I nor my vampire character consider such things "holy", just "imbued with power".
A wooden cross isn't going to do jack unless you stake her with it, and a silver one won't do anything unless you touch her with it. Otherwise your best bet is to use holy objects as conventional weapons rather than relying on any kind of special powers.
If it won't work on zombies, ghouls, or anything else, it won't work on her. Just because a weakness is popular doesn't mean that it's a good weakness. Also about the sun, if you observe the Elder Scrolls games, vampires take extra damage damaged by silver and they only suffer a minor debuff in the sun.
As for garlic, she's not immune to it, she LOVES it. Garlic is super tasty. Om nom nom nom. SEriously, the garlic thing is over done. The garlic thing predates modern vampire lore by so much that the vampires garlic was supposed to ward off isn't even really what we would consider to be vampires. They were evil spirits that would do things like possess rusty door latches or nails, then deliberately cut someone and give them tetanus.
Running water works but only because she doesn't like to get wet, she's a bit of a girly girl and hates getting dirty.
As for eye contact to dominate? Not so much, but if you listen to her for long enough, you might go mad. On the planned additions to her powers are Soul Mesmerism with Glossolalia, and a confusion power. It's not really seduction, more inducing temporary insanity. This is because I roleplay her as basically a VTM Malkavian, but without the Masquerade to worry about. With so many supers running around, there's little point in maintaining any kind of masquerade.
As for the balance and flaws for the character. She has to take meds every day for her schizophrenia. Due to her schizophrenia, she's very vulnerable to psychic attacks. At the very least, just being in contact with psychic powers can weaken or eliminate the benefit she gets from her meds. She went a little loopy after going after Psimon. Even if someone isn't psychic, they can still mess with her mind.
She's also fairly easy to seduce. All you really need is to look cool, not look like a dork in tights, and know what buttons to push. However, I draw the line at ERP.
So there you have it, if the sun is out, hit her with a fire hose to wash off the sunscreen and she'll run off in fear of being burned by the sun. Use silver weapons and/or psychic powers. Or just look really really attractive and she'll get all starry eyed and let her guard down.
Don't be so quick to judge people playing vampires just because their character doesn't have the usual response to the usual stimulus. If anybody could just wave garlic around and presto, vampire repellant, isn't that just a wee bit overpowered in itself?
(edit) I'm tempted to delete this entire post and just basically repeat back at you what you said, but with the rules for Jiang-shi, the Chinse form of vampires. They hop around with their feet together and their arms held out. Also, their major weakness, aside from pieces of paper with spells cast on them, is having to stop and count anything thrown before them, such as grains of rice. That's actually where Count von Count from Sesame Street gets his counting fetish from.
Of course I once ran a tabletop game where I incorporated this counting obsession into all vampires. But the older vampires were extremely adept at counting. They'd simply look at what was thrown, announce the number and continue on. As crowd control it was about as effective as pointing and saying "look, it's Countess Bathory going skinny dipping!" They might instinctually glance just because o the pointing, but they aren't necessarily going to be fooled by it.
Anne Rice isn't something good to proclaim your argument for, since her dross was just a more pro LGBT version of what Twilight is. As far as Dracula, he got weaker in the daylight, but unlike Anne Rice and Stephenie's version, he was still a monster.
Still, the point is that more than vampires being afraid of the sun. And yes of course you're right about Stoker's Dracula. As for Anne Rice and LGBT friendly... would you believe that was unintentional on her part? Rice has this habit of writing books that end up with a cult following that sexualizes the content in her books, and ends up absolutely mortified. It also happened with her Sleeping Beauty series. After she wrong the Sleeping Beauty Trilogy she ended up meeting some people who actually turned the content of her books into a lifestyle. That's why there haven't been any further books. Not that I care, I hate that series.
And honestly, an LGBT friendly version of Twilight? That is such a completely gross misrepresentation that I don't even know where to begin. Read the damn books. There's no pedophile vampires in them, there's no werewolves that tear open wombs. There's no sparkling. The books are considerably darker with more interesting characters than Meyer is capable of producing. I'm not a fan of Anne Rice, but I'm not going to sit idly by while you spread ignorance and lies about her books or anyone else's.
I don't agree with the entirety of Anne Rice's books, but she helped develop the modern version of vampires. She laid down the foundation for everything that came after. Vampires as you know and prefer them probably wouldn't exist without her books. She added more to the mythos than any other single writer in history. There's slews of books, movies, tv shows, and games that all revolve around the more interesting additions she added to the genre.
I look at Anne Rice's books as a kind of character study on vampires who have refused to give up their humanity, vs those who have given it up. I also see them as an inspiration for the Canadian tv show, Forever Knight, and for the tabletop game Vampire: The Masquerade.
I rather like VTM even though I rather dislike vampires in general. VTM has so many interesting dynamics at play. I once played a Gangrel that went on an expedition to find a book that possessed knowledge that could destroy either werewolves or vampires depending on whose hands it was in. Here's the twist, the expedition was all werewolves. My gangrel vampire simply wore a cloak in the day time. At the end of the campaign, she killed every last one of the werewolves in the party using the book. The other players were like "wtf?! a vampire?!" "but I saw her turn into a wolf!" "and she was walking around in the sun". The GM simply said "what you saw was a gangrel turning into a wolf, gangrels are vampires and they can do that, and you saw her wearing a hooded cloak in the sunlight." It was the most awesome plot twist I ever helped a GM create!
My point is that one shouldn't judge a vampire character solely on the basis that its weaknesses don't match up to your concept of what a proper vampire should do. After having created this character, I keep being lectured by different players on different things. It seems everybody and their grandmother is trying to tell me how to properly play a vampire when I've got the basics down.
1: Drink blood to restore health and/or power. Check
2: Vulnerable to direct sunlight, even if sunlight isn't instant death. Check.
3: Vulnerable to specific weapons such as silver, check.
So why do I have one person telling me that I absolutely must use what he calls "shade gel" because "all the good vampires know to use it in the sun" and any deviation from his prescription makes my vampire be from Twilight? Why do I have another person telling me that I have to stink like a corpse? Then there's one who says I shouldn't be playing heavy weapons, I should be playing beastial/supernatural for the claws because vampires all have long fingernails? There's another person who says I should just use Bite and not Devour Essence because bite is animated properly.
It's my character, I have checks and balances. I'm adhere to a concept. I took regeneration because it fits vampire concepts when I instead prefer to use invulnerability on my builds. So don't presume to try to force the false dichotomy of "you're either a Twilight vampire or you're not a Twilight vampire" down my throat. I'm not doing Twilight and I'm not incorporating any elements from Twilight, even if I'm incorporating some elements that Twilight got from some place else. My character doesn't sparkle in the light and isn't a pedophile. So enough with trying to browbeat me about not drawing from that book. I hate Twilight just as much as any other sane person.
Nightbreed is, pretty much, a standard package -- strong and tough, but unlike msot has a thirst to contend with, and its loosely ES-inspired in that she needs to feed or eventually the 'Beast' gets loose and gorges, innocents get hurt. She hates herself for it. Off-color eyes, thin, pale, slightly off in the ears -- going on the models of vamps in-game for a lessened "game face". Sunlight's not an issue (though she dislikes it on principle and burns painfully and quickly -- by human standards, has an allergy to silver, and has notable OCD issues, especially counting. That last one really doesn't get enough play....
She also wears white, more out of disgust with the stereotype, and partly due to the striking affect it has on her near-ivory complexion.
And notably tends to severe dislike pureblood vampires, due to instinctive nature and upbringing.
..decent enough explanation for a Bestial Supernatural Str/Con type, methink...
As I've noted in my Characters Thread, Sun Deer is a common mispronunciation of the word Tsundere.
The more you know!
My vampire character wears a mixture of black, white, and red. Not necessarily in that order. But most of her outfits have all 3 colors being prominent and used in a manner that just looks cool without looking goth. Here's some examples of the some of her outfits. Basically I figured she's a non-conformist, and the only non-conformists that aren't like all other non-conformists are lunatics. So she kind of makes her own style. Except for the harajuku thing. That was the first costume I'd made for her before I made the other two.
RP-ing a vampire and even a character of history shouldn't and wasnt a prob for me. As long as you keep the vulnerabilities in check. In my case I keep using Bram Stokers Dracula as guideline... No Twilight for me.. or even the scientific Blade or Underworld.
That means that the older vampires are able to walk in sunlight... but as Bram Stoker writes.. 'It is not their natural time and are weakened'. And ofcourse I could have some shades ready.
Keeping Stoker means you need a regular rest in native soil, are scared away by holy symbols in a believers hand and garlic is no fun to be near too. Stakes that actually ground the vampires heart to the earth is deadly.. and silver will stop the unnatural regeneration.
It also gives a few abilites extra.. making stronger... psychic, wallcrawling, command over wolves, minor weather control.
Only way to RP correctly is to stay vulnerable. Elizabeth is a proud aristocratic vain person... Fond of dresses and luxury. Makes her easy to find if you look for her too. Playing a villain also means to be scheming. And to have an adult look to the rp from both sides. I have absolutly no problem with losing and/or having my plans foiled. But it is my main so I cant have her destroyed. Simply accept that she will find loop holes to escape the death/destruction at the last minute. And I am game for all as villain in any plot.
Looks are rather old fashioned and yet also fashionable if needed. Shape and color shifts at the blood reserve rise or lower. As Bram Stoker writes... if the thirst is lessed the human color comes back and the vampire is able to hide between humans in plain sight.
Just my two bloody cents...
Bathory Erzsebet (Elizabeth Bathory (@Liz_Bathory))
The Court of the Blood Countess
http://union.virtueverse.net/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That the vampires are harmed from sunlight is an Hollywood invention. Dracula , for example in the Bram Stoker novel is seen to stroll around for London in day hours.
The legends instead say that all the evil creatures go away at cockcrow because it was at that hour that in the monasteries and convents they recited the morning prayers.
Of course such explanation would not be well accepted in today world so they come with "the sun burns vampires"
Always the best rp in any situation is to have a mix of strengths and weaknesses. My superman type characer, Paragon Vanguard, which is probably more Captain Marvel type, is very susceptible to magic. Toxins can enter his system through the air and his breathing, but it is very difficult to penetrate his skin. He heals up faster than normal people, but nowhere near the ability of Marvel's Wolverine. He can be pounded into unconsciousness if his adversary is also very strong, and no, he cannot move the world off of it's axis or cause it to spin backwards to go back in time. He is also susceptible to mental attacks, though he is very intelligent and can resist to a certain extent.
I also have a vampire character that I play, though have not played here, yet. Jerrin Bloodlett. He is weakened in sunlight, and will die in direct sunlight. Crosses, running water, garlic and the like do not effect him, but he is, surprisingly, a believer in Christianity. He can be rebuked by a true believer, but whether that is a mental or physical thing I have never, and never will, directly address. I simply do not know, and do not care to make it a matter. A stake through the heart, be it wood, metal, mahogany, plastic....etc......can kill him. It has to be left there until he turns to ash, which will take more than a few seconds. Something like, say, a knife to the chest, that is removed, will fell him, like anyone else. Anybody not knowing what he is will assume they killed him, but he will rise, though the time varies depending on how healthy he is, ie, how long ago he fed, how mentally stable he is...etc. Magic and sorcery effect him. He can turn others into vampires, but his failure rate far outweighs any success he has had, and his failures become undead slaves, something he does not desire, and usually dispatches them.
In RP, unless there is strict lore rules, on a game system like CO, you will be dealing with diverse thoughts on any and everything. Less mature rp'ers want to be the best at everything, more mature rp'ers understand that being unbeatale is as boring as... well, being Superman with only Lex Luthor as your archenemy.......without the kryptonite.
Just my 2 cents, not really worth a penny.
Paragon Vanguard
Luke Minhere
Hughe of The Purple Robes
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
Technically it is undead since it was necro'd
I need to meet this person on my undead deer slave! :biggrin: