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Gods and Demons - rant rant rant
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Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
Hi everyone,
I love a bit of RP. I like to RP my characters from lvl 1 to 40. BUT I have a question or two that niggle me.....
1/ Why are there so many gods and super uber omnipotent deities....and why would such an omnipotent being stand around in Caprice talking to lonely mortals like my characters.
2/Why are there so many demons that are so very very bad that even satan vomited before throwing them out of hell for out-sataning satan....and again, if they were this bad, why are they in caprice at lvl 6 ? Does this mean that satan is only lvl 4 haha?
3/What is it with all the succubi? And they are always lesbians....succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon who takes the form of a hot human woman in order to seduce and sleep with men A male one is called an incubus. A succubus collects semen from the men she sleeps with. The incubi then use this to impregnate human females. Now...my beef with lesbian succubi is that they dont seem to want to have sex with men (as they are in fact lesbian). Does that not make them just a demon?
4/What is it with all the RPers that go to caprice and say something like 'Hey Joe...give me your best, strongest and most expensive alcohol'...only to down the bottle and get another one. Are all superheroes boozaholics these days?
Saturday Rant over (brought on by godmodding demons in caprice last night lol)
I love a bit of RP. I like to RP my characters from lvl 1 to 40. BUT I have a question or two that niggle me.....
1/ Why are there so many gods and super uber omnipotent deities....and why would such an omnipotent being stand around in Caprice talking to lonely mortals like my characters.
2/Why are there so many demons that are so very very bad that even satan vomited before throwing them out of hell for out-sataning satan....and again, if they were this bad, why are they in caprice at lvl 6 ? Does this mean that satan is only lvl 4 haha?
3/What is it with all the succubi? And they are always lesbians....succubus (plural succubi) is a female demon who takes the form of a hot human woman in order to seduce and sleep with men A male one is called an incubus. A succubus collects semen from the men she sleeps with. The incubi then use this to impregnate human females. Now...my beef with lesbian succubi is that they dont seem to want to have sex with men (as they are in fact lesbian). Does that not make them just a demon?
4/What is it with all the RPers that go to caprice and say something like 'Hey Joe...give me your best, strongest and most expensive alcohol'...only to down the bottle and get another one. Are all superheroes boozaholics these days?
Saturday Rant over (brought on by godmodding demons in caprice last night lol)
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1) - Comics are rife with gods and goddesses in the role of superhero, some of whom do just... hang out. Hercules and Thor both being easy to name off the top of my head, though I know for a fact there are others.
Consider also that in practical terms, many superheroes are godlike - Superman is, for all intents and purposes, a god, even though nobody really treats him as such. That's the funny thing with the genre, power levels go all the way from "unpowered human" all the way to "physical god". So in terms of power it's not as off the charts as it necessarily sounds.
Point being... it's common enough in the genre it's not really too surprising.
2) - I suspect some people want to play villains but can't. (And yes, Satan is stuck in the tutorial. Just because it makes me lol to think about it. He can't shut down ALL the beacons.)
3) - I think it really comes down to two things: A) The G.I.R.L. principle - Ie: they're mostly guys in real life. Most guys have a tough time wrapping their head around heterosexual interaction from the female perspective.
Primarily A though I think.
4) - You see that kind of thing allllllll the time in tabletop gaming. Unlike tabletop there's no way to determine if you just gave yourself alcohol poisoning. (In tabletop it tends to be hilarious when the level 1 barbarian attempts this feat to impress the local NPCs... fails their check, and winds up slumped in a corner for the evening.)
< . .> /rambling, I'll shaddup.
*Which is a pretty large cultural influence even for people who've never played it. It's just so many people's modern touchstone for mythology that it gets carried into other works.
and....their seduction skills suck! 'Hey, you look hot' is among the most popular i get
I dont know much about comics as such, but i do understand that there are gods in many comic stories. Maybe i should read one or two...but i still get the feeling that if they are gods then they should start doing godly things and not drinking ale. I know i would kill everyone and start evolution again if i was a god lol.
I have had a look at some stuff online and it does appear that thor and hercules are not gods as in the traditional sense, but belong to a pantheon of powerful beings. From what i can see in the marvel stories you have many many more powerful beings than these pantheons (but please correct me if im wrong...as i say, i havnt read much in the way of comics).
True story, I ran into one character claiming to be 500 TRILLION years old. Yup, older then the big bang. Not sure how that works out. But, I guess he felt it made him seem impressive.
People just need to be reminded that superman is a fairly boring character. And that being all powerful is neither impressive or heroic, its simply powerful. And that unlimited power makes for dull and boring stories.
Weakness is not a limitation but a challenge. Challenge is needed for characters to develop and become interesting.
So to sum up comic lots of gods or god like beings not being able to spit without hitting one in champs is probably in keeping with the general comic book theme.
pretty much bang on marvel god = powerful being not of the standard dimension.
This also go's for pretty much every god in comic book dom.
Also, many people have come to Champions Online from fantasy games like WoW, where gods, demons, vampires, etc. are an accepted part of the landscape, and character morality is often less important than killing things and taking their stuff.
The comic-book characters who have stood the test of time -- Superman, Spider-Man, Batman, Captain America, and their brothers and sisters -- are much more than that, though. These are courageous, self-sacrificing men and women of strong ideals who devote their lives to defending the innocent and helpless, often at great personal cost to themselves. Being exceptionally gifted, they feel it their duty to hold themselves to a higher standard of conduct than ordinary people. It's easy to identiy the motivations that drive them, because they reflect the values of the American culture which first created the superhero genre: truth, justice, and the rule of law; the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak; the few standing against all the forces of chaos and destruction; extraordinary beings who consider less gifted individuals to be fundamentally their equals, worthy of respect.
Consider the moral strength of Superman, who has the power to do or take anything he wants, without fear of consequences, but who refrains from doing so for no other reason than that it would violate what he believes to be right. That, as much as anything, makes him a hero.
And despite the best efforts of centuries of theologians/ priests/ rabbis/ etc... to turn the divine into something beyond human comprehension (yet not beyond their comprehension, strangely enough) people still try to anthropomorphise these concepts.
But when it comes down to it, "self sacrificing hero" isn't anywhere nearly as good of an adolescent power fantasy as "created the world from the guts of an ur- badger"
1. Inferiority Complex
2. Inferiority Complex
3. Sex
4. Lack of experience
After calming down from my rant i guess what really really got me going was in Caprice a 'demon' character who was lvl 14 saying that in an RP fight, my lvl 40 would lose because this character was a demon who could kill gods with his power, and would only rp if I accepted this. I declined the offer at being godmodded so I was called a newb and a troll....and im niether...I know levels dont mean anything in Caprice, but come on folks...lets get a little real
Thanks for you your input everyone
I am a calmer Kitty in a more Zen like place
My main (current anyways) is a villain, which I'll admit is kinda stupid. He's not a demon (but does have a demonic evil look of sorts) but skipping to the important part, I will always value a good villain more then a good hero. It's kinda stupid making a villanous char on a hero mmo but it's your experience anyways,why not enjoy it? Besides, there are so many ninjas/robots/vampires as there are any other type of character in RP. Human creativity is at it's very core finite and limited, in creating a backstory or character anyways, we always have some kind of template, consciously or not. (Also his bio is on my sig)
And the third one, well that's a basic law of nature, idiots exist, don't think otherwise.The whole logic presented is beyond my mere understanding.
The last one, is for the sake of realism to the whole event at question.
..who now is a bit like Raven in Dedlands: Hell on Earth --- "No account powers of Evil left me to hang when I needed them most -- so now let's show these upstart heroes how you kick the Cosmic Evil Forces in the daddybags" -- and in fact as she's a Storm homage, mixing in the Goddess and Shadow King type elements there.
And lets be honest, purple Hurrican looks awesome, so there's that too.
But ultimately.. horrifying power, former high authority... but the important thing is -- its in-game power, and the character has a reason to be fighting villains, a reason to be on Earth and not back whence she came, a definite tie to the lore of the setting, and some actual substance. Even the main costume looks more "refugee from Hyboria" than "evil spikes of doomy doom and black!"
Be original folks. The game gives you one of the most awesome and flexible tools for character creation ever....
..and all you can do is rip off mythology and make Superman clones (as in, "all power, no real substance" -- and I know Supes has some characterization but honestly, he's still more defined by powers than any personality, at least to public mind).
Make an avatar or servant of a deity (a Loa's favored Horse, Paladin of Heaven, a witch or druidess calling on the might of the Old Gods), and have fun blending the old world of legendry into our modern one of superheroes -- because that's all high-power mythology is, the Superheroes of yesteryear.
Most importantly, step outside the box. Go outside your normal paradigms. Gods' sakes, be creative.
For the problem at hand, I always think of 'Invincible Elder Demon God of DOOM' as what the Japanese call Kami, spiritual entities which often get mixed up with gods, but aren't. After all if I were a Kami I would also want people to think I am a god.
Give me Batman over Thor or Superman or the like anyday...
And that includes the "badass normal" archetype when the "normal" part only means they bleed a lot to make the badass part of them seem cooler and edgier; fundamentally they're just as invulnerable and boring as the most cosmically powered super in the hands of an uninspired powergamer, and often with a "normal uber alles" sanctimonious attitude that makes the character even more obnoxious. Some folks seem to think irritating "normal" characters are more interesting than dull "superpowered" ones. After you've seen your 800th smartmouth, spandex-hating, merc with a mouth... no, they're not. They're equally lame.
Why? The god may have no physical weaknesses, and that makes physical combat with him boring. Right? Well, the badass normal may be more vulnerable in a physical fight, but he often builds himself a psychological fortress in its place. No conscience? Great! No moral code to restrict what you want to do? Fantastic. You can't beat the god in a physical combat, and he'll godmod around any attempt to do otherwise. However, the badass normal who's a hyperintelligent sociopath is making himself socially and psychologically invulnerable, and will godmod against any weaknesses found when conflicts go non-combat. Lame.
So what isn't lame? A well-executed story. Execution is 98% of the battle here. And despite the differences in the mediums, it applies to MMO RP as well. That's the secret I've found about RP. I've seen people play the lamest concepts and be absolutely brilliant and compelling and make you want to get involved in their stories. This includes some Caprice RPers who've played the concepts you've mentioned. Then I've known folks who play some really quirky and original concepts, but they leave no hooks for other players to relate to them, to get into their stories, and their RP style and general demeanor makes them painful to be around.
I would not argue with the proposition that certain themes and power level attract and nurture bad RP, however, I've found that the reverse is definitely *not* true; good RP relies not on theme or power level, but ultimately comes down to the talent level of the people you're RPing with, your shared interaction skills, and your ability to collaborate and find good "chemistry" together.
My recommendations. First, do not get involved in fights in Caprice. Ignore them if possible. I'll skip my usual rant on why they shouldn't be frequent occurrences there. If you don't participate in them, your chance of being godmodded goes way down. Let the godmodders be happy godmodding with each other, if they're having fun and everyone's on the same page, great. But you don't have to participate in that culture.
Second, if you don't care for Caprice RP, get into an RP SG that doesn't hang around doing tavern RP. Find one that tends more for traditional heroics, without deities or occult characters or Q-storylines (except for RP runs of Demonflame or Aftershock).
Third, read the PnP background material if you can get your hands on it. The Mystic World has some concepts in it that are mind-blowing. Why make a generic demon when you have as your origins some of the more interesting concepts in the Mystic World? Get inspired.
Dean Shomshak, whose excellent writing for Hero Games defined much of the occult cosmology and subculture of the Champions Universe, described a number of sample heroes in his book The Ultimate Mystic representing various magic character archetypes, often drawing directly from the official lore of the Champions Universe for their backgrounds. As a way of showing my hearty agreement with Thundrax's point, and showcasing the setting's potential, I'd like to share a few of my favorites with you.
Zontar Bok was a skilled and respected warrior-mage of the hidden city of benevolent mystics, Shamballah, leading the fight against its evil counterpart, Agharti. After many years of conflict Zontar passed from this life, his spirit slumbering in the enchanted crystal orb which once topped his staff. The crystal survived the millennia until it was discovered by a talented young psychic named Jezeray Illyescu. Jezeray accidentally channelled Zontar Bok's spirit so effectively that he was able to share her physical body and continue the fight against evil (although doing so in the body of a young girl is somewhat embarrassing for him). Jezeray's psychic talents make her a capable occult detective, complementing Zontar's combat spells, while Zontar's power lets her interact with the deeper levels of the Mystic World subculture.
In 1979 the greatest evil sorceror of the 20th Century, Archimago, cast a dreadful ritual called the Zodiac Working, attempting to incarnate twelve major demons by having them spiritually impregnate young women. Superheroes stopped the ritual before it could be completed, and the women seemed to suffer no permanent effects. Virgil Rohan's mother was one of them. Years later she married and bore Virgil. When he was a young man an agent of his true father, the archdevil Belial, tracked Virgil down and activated his demonic heritage, intending to incarnate Belial in his body. But Virgil fought free using his new powers. Belial still seeks to bring Virgil Rohan to his service, but Virgil rejects his demonic heritage by fighting crime as the superhero, Pagan.
Billy Doyle was a smart, sensitive kid growing up in a tough slum where he felt very much out of place. One day he found a nexus gate to the extra-dimensional city of Babylon, sum and synthesis of all the great cities in human history, real or imagined. Billy eventually became apprentice to a sorceror of Babylon devoted to the magic of Artifice, one of the Four Zoas that comprise the fundamental concepts of reality (along with Order, Chaos, and Nature). Billy learned spells to reshape matter, energy, and magic. Billy Doyle resents the powers of Evil for taking away what little chance people have for self-expression and -improvement, so he returned to Earth to combat them, and to remake the world as a better place, in the guise of the heroic mage Artifex, master of the Cosmic Craft.
During the Renaissance, poets and artists combined Christian and Greco-Roman characters, their imaginings allowing those actual entities in the supernatural world to interact as they never could before. The demigod Chrysaor was the offspring of the goddess Aphrodite and a warrior angel she seduced (mostly to prove she could). Chrysaor grew up on Olympus as a great athlete, but became bored with such pointless competitions. When a group of the gods' enemies escaped Tartarus to Earth, Chrysaor volunteered to hunt them down and bring them back. On Earth he views modern supervillains as analogues to the monsters and tyrants of the mythic age, and fights them while he searches for the Tartaran escapees. He maintains a secret identity as a college classics professor and wrestling coach.
The Chunhu are a clan of shapeshifters and therianthropes based in China, one of the most powerful and respected occult dynasties in the Mystic World. Most Chunhu pursue power and influence for themselves and their clan, but Chunhu Liang, a weretiger, wanted to protect ordinary people from occult and mundane threats. Liang adopted the identity of Tiger-Man, a superhero of Hong Kong. Although a fierce fighter against criminals and monsters he's not a killer, and devotes much of his efforts to helping the poor. He maintains a secret identity as Leon Chun, manager of a video store in Hong Kong. Liang's chosen path has estranged him from his kin, but the Chunhu name still commands respect in the Mystic World and can open doors for him.
Snip. Sorry, Thundrax.
Your post has some valid points, but you tend to forget that we are not talking Superman vs. The Punisher here. We are talking 'Invincible Elder Demon God of DOOM' vs. The Punisher here. In some cases at least. The sort of RPers the OP mentioned rarely make Superman-like characters, with god-like powers and a moral and ethical standard to fit their respective powers. Instead they pick the powers as well as the mindset you attribute to 'Badass Normal' characters here. While I dont want to say that only such characters are allowed to have this mindset, it goes without saying that the combination is the important factor here.
Example 1:
Generic Superhero: "Stop, villain! Cant you see that what you are doing is wrong? You cant just rob this charity gala! Think of all the children this money could save! You cant do that!"
Hyperintelligent Sociopathic Mercenary: "Just watch me, hero." *wips out his gun and fires at the hero*
Generic Superhero: *bullets bounce of his chest and he beats the HSM into pulp*
...
Example 2:
Generic Superhero: "Stop, villain! Cant you see that what you are doing is wrong? You cant just rob this charity gala! Think of all the children this money could save! You cant do that!"
'Invincible Elder Demon God of DOOM': "Just watch me, hero." *opens a portal to the 'Ancient Elder Demon Dimension of DOOM', which swallows the screaming hero*
...
In my opinion power-level decides greatly how a story advances and the characters interact with each other. Given, that it's a villain or morally amibigous character thing, but it can be seen ingame too: Therakiel and Kevin Poe. Apart from the fact that both encounters are set up very differently with Therakiel requiring 5 people and Kevin Poe being a low-level villain in Westside. The stacks are the same. Both have been outcast and want revenge. Therakiel wants revenge on the whole world, Kevin poe wants revenge on PSI. Now look at how they are received by the general playerbase, even it's just subconciously. Therakiel is feared; for his one-hit killer, his burning gaze, people want his sword, his wings... And then there's Kevin Poe. He's... well, he's Kevin Poe, right? Most people have forgotten about him when they hit level 30. Both are interesting characters, with motivations, goals and personality flaws. But they will never, never, never be equally fearsome or at least impressive in the eyes of most people.
EDIT: Great, now you have me. I feel the need to make a character called Hyperintelligent Sociopathic Mercenary and make his Nemesis Invincible Elder Demon God of DOOM...
2-Apparently, there's some way your character can 'die forever' that I haven't seen yet. It lends someone a cheap 'you can't stop me!' excuse to fear nothing. And... that's why we invented embarassment.
Nothing delights me, or rather my character, than hearing some moron walk into Caprice or whereever and spout 'Stupid weak mortals!'. Proceed to embarassment.
Definition of stupid: Walking into a place full of superpowered mortals and talking down on them. In a place where they serve alcohol (kitty already pointed out that they're all booze hounds). Would you wear a swastika on your shirt and go to a 50 Cent concert? No, because that'd be retarded.
In Norse Mythology, gods weren't 'unkillable'. They could bleed and die just like mortals. In actuality, they were more like superheroes than gods in the sense we understand.
General rule of thumb for god/demon players: If you are made of physical material, that form can be destroyed. No matter what you think, NOWHERE in comics has a return from the dead been instant just because you're a diety or demon. It's a process made of suck.
Also, lesbo succubi? Because male homophobia doesn't allow to play a male in an ERP situation, otherwise he may become too entranced on male 'stuff' and possiblyl... you know where this is going.
The 'GIBBE DA BOOZE!!!' mindset? Because a lot of kids have no idea what drinking is really like. Pounding a bottle of Vodka isn't normal- it's expensive and flashy and outright toxic. For under age kids, drinking is more about 'having' than enjoying a drink, because none of them have really drank alcohol- they've just had to prove they're cool because they can get their hands on it. It loses its glamour after a while (If I have any Irish players on here, they could tell you that drinking is awesome in Ireland, but it's not a HUGE AWESOME PARTY ROCK IS IN THE HOUSE deal. It's just a drink.)
I strongly disagree with this, I find Superman to be a wonderful and interesting character (especially in the hands of a talented writer. Allstar: Superman being one of my favorite DC books.) For those of us who are Superman fans (like myself) and who grew up on the character, he's someone we can look up to and who we want to be like and not just his powers but his morals and how he's willing to selflessly save the day and such.
And I also disagree on the unlimited power, for the most part. I've read stories where there have been beings with godly power and guess what? They were often very fun and interesting. Why? I'll admit if you're so powerful that no one presents a challenge to you (mentally, physically, or otherwise) it will more than likely get boring. BUT, if you have two god-like beings in a battle with one another duking it out via (mentally, physically, or otherwise) often times (atleast for me) the battles and combat keeps me entertained and even left with a gaping mouth.
What? So anyone who wants to create a god or demon like character is an unimaginative dolt? That's rude.
In all of the world's collective mythology, there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of gods/demons and leaves alot of ideas to be explored and reimagined in today's modern mythology. In fact I'm working on a few god characters and ideas and along with a few demon ideas. And yes, being a god or demon there is implied that there is power behind you simply because of title, however other times it's because of history behind said god/demon and how well their character is executed. Look, I'm not trying to say that there aren't
any bad (which is subjective) god/demon characters in CO. I'm just saying it seems like you're lumping everyone together.
This doesn't really bother me at all, In fact, sometimes it's fun to engage with some characters who are like this and RP with them whether my character is a "god" or not. It really just depends. (I wouldn't expect a character from like who is as unto a likeness of Buddha or another god say like Quetzalcoatl. But maybe a Blood-Knight like god or a demon who would talk in any condenscending nature toward a mortal (to me atleast) is understandable.
I didn't say 'they are for unimaginative dolts. I said they were an instant 'badass card'. It's like a gun- they aren't for people who want to scare people, but they are available for that purpose and some people buy them for that reason.
No, your other point about walking into a club and saying 'foolish mortal?"
You're probably deserving of humilation. I can't sit on a gun turret in Iraq and scream 'Stupid Arabs!" I've got a bigger gun and better training, but they outnumber me and it makes me retarded.
Thats not what he said.
It is a means of getting credibility as a badass without having to exercise imagination.
Beautifully said.
Well, I still think that playing a god or demon with all the bluff and bluster that goes along with it 'Ha, ye shall all perish under my feet, foolish mortals' is just plain silly and stinks of crappy rp.
I have also noticed a one or two non powered characters that assume that they are so bad **** that everyone should quake in fear or be in awe of their gun prowess. (if you are one of those people from last night and are reading this then you would know who you are). Well, thats also a bit stinky as it assumes you know everything about the person you are rping with, when you dont. If someone like this came up to Mia (one of my fav characters I have made) in caprice, she would not be that impressed, not because of any god like innate ability she may or may not have (she is in fact a rather vulnerable, messed up girl who has seen some very very bad things in her 21 years, and this does not make her bad ****, just a little strange) , but purely because she is just incredibly cynical of anyone s bluff and bluster, be it godly, demonic or some so called bad **** gun merchant. Thats just her. She will be rude and taunt anyone who gives here the 'big I Am', usually to the point of the other person leaving the room.
Anyone who is playing one of these types of characters should all go and play in the same place, all out god modding each other, and let proper rpers who want to learn about other peoples characters and to develop their own, in peace.
My mistake on misinterpreting the first part then. I apologize.
You could probably take out a few of em' before they got to you if you've got better training and a bigger gun and depends on how many there are in total and how well they are armed...and if they've got a better grasp of the environment.
But I digress, I still disagree to some extent but I understand where you are coming from....I think.
Ah, some people.
This needs to be resurrected from the first page. This person speaks sooth, sooth that can be classified as wisdom of the ages. It's worth paying attention to.
And anyone who thinks that Superman is boring is wrong-faced and clearly hasn't read anything where Grant Morrison has been writing him. Grant Morrison's recent Superman run is some of the best writing I've seen in a DC comic in years. So I'd definitely advise looking up those, as they'll definitely change your views.
I can't help but be honest about this, really. I mean, thinking that a character can't be interesting if they're very powerful just betrays a lack of imagination. Look at Danny the Street/Danny the World from Doom Patrol. Or check out issue #26 of Morrison's run of Animal Man. Morrison is a brilliant writer, one whom I love, and he's able to make more everyman superheroes look as dull as dishwater by comparison.
At the end of the day, it's not about how much power a superhero has, it's about how much imagination the writer has.
That's something that might not be easy to accept, but it's completely true. So when I hear about a powerful character that's 'boring' or 'lacking,' I either put it down to a lack of experience on the writer's side of things, or... well, what else could it be? If it's not that then it's jealousy. Being jelly over a character is silly. Therefore I don't want to assume that, but people who so easily assume that a powerful character MUST embody those negative things makes me cynical about them.
Or, again, maybe they've just not read the amount of comics that I have.
/shrug
And no, I don't have any gods or demons (*****es of demons, perhaps, but not demons), because I don't think I'm a talented enough writer to pull it off. But to say that it can't be done would be either facetious or arrogant.
Buuuuttttt...
Look I love Superman, and I too love Grant Morrison. But I've heard of people who don't like Superman, Grant Morrison, or even Superman written by Grant Morrison. Why? Some have reasons as to why they do not. It's their preference, it's not wrong but it's not right either, it's a personal preference that simply applies them and whoever agrees them. I may disagree with people about what I like/dislike but I usually (I screw up on this sometimes let my feelings at the time get the best of me) don't try to tell them that they are wrong because they like/dislike something that I like. (My best friend is a sudying to become a filmmaker/director and we often disagree on what movies we liked.) I may disagree (even strongly disagree) on super
So as much as I agree with you on Grant Morrison being a great writer and his take on Superman is awesome, I strongly disagree with you anyone who thinks that Superman is boring is wrong. Just as I strongly disagree if anyone would try to tell me I was wrong for thinking Superman is interesting.
Hopefully, I haven't offended you at all.
IMO I think part of writing is trying to experiment with new things and material. It's like riding a bike, you may fall down a few times or even several times but I you keep trying better to improve, you'll hopefully get somewhere. I love mythology and Love modern day fiction, and I want try my take on some of deities I love of ancient myth and lore and try to see what I can do.
This is indeed one of the silliest things I've ever seen. I'm not even going to mention why it's silly because I mean, it's written right there.
No worries. My thing: Play what you want, just be sure you know how to handle 'em. Some -awesome- godlike and demonlike characters I've seen:
-A demon who didn't want to be discovered as such, choosing to blend into the less chaotic and more interesting mortal world.
-A god who relinquished his power to a mortal child, and the human carried the powers, but not mastery of them.
-Forgotten, weakened gods who wish to return to earth and care for the humans again.
-A demon who loved a human woman, was banished for it, and was weakened on earth as a result.
All of these were played in a very interesting way, as it made sense for the character.
I could, but in their country- and even if I got away, there'd be a backlash like you can't imagine and I'd be hunted to the ends of the earth.
After a few observations, I don't know if it is -entirely- fair to lump demons/gods in the same category alone, because there's a particular few characters who have behavior I find just plain idiotic. Heroes, and high-profile 'good guys' don't sic their underlings on someone in public. Maybe I'm thinking realistically here, but I can't imagine Professor Xavier telling Wolverine to shred someone up because they said 'Mutants suck', or even picture Batman threatening Dr. Mid-Nite because Mid-Nite disapproves of his methods. It's very out-of-character. If you play one such 'screw the rules' antihero, then it makes a little more sense- provided he's an idiot who doesn't realize that he'd probably be hospitalized and arrested afterward.
You see what I am getting at?
Both sides are correct. Boredom is subjective. That guy who says Supes is boring because he is bored by Superman is every bit as correct as the guy who says that Superman is not boring because he is not bored by Supes.
And I know those people like to pretend their level doesn't matter, sorry, it does. Role-play isn't just a matter of pretending here. Trying to hand wave away someone's level 40 character with your level 10 or pretending that someone should be impressed because you can use super make up power skills just isn't conducive to good role play or even remotely on the same plain.
I don't know it's just been something that really makes me ignore RP lately, because really, the whole tavern talk scenario is old in my eyes, but on top of that interesting people or personalities don't really come out of the field since most want to be unbeatable god-like creatures instead of an actual character. Not to mention, lately, some people have been using RP as an excuse to be complete *******s. And then they wonder why people don't RP with them after wards.
The argument that really gets my goat regarding Superman is that "he's real not a hero because he's so powerful."
It's a load of bull. Moreover, it's patently stupid bull.
Yeah, he's powerful, but he's more than willing to fight in his weight class. Mongul. Metallo. The Anti-Monitor. Fricking Darkseid. He regularly goes up against a creature whom he's powerless against (Mxy and his 5D magicks) and beats him purely with his wits.
Doomsday killed him once? Supes still goes up against him. I could go on and on. Zod? Jax-Ur? Bizarro?Parasite? None of these are a picnic for Supes, but he still keeps going. And then there's Luthor who, even in the hands of a half-decent author, has the resources and intelligence to together a plan that's capable of killing him. If fighting people who can kill you is what defines the "hero" part of a "superhero", then only someone's who's an idiot or deliberately obtuse can deny Supes the label.
But let's go to the corollary... "Supes isn't a hero because he picks on normal level characters" There's no question he does. And so does Batman. Both characters outclass any thug they encounter: Supes by his rubber bullet bumper pecs, Bats by his Batmany badassedness. And forgive me if I scoff at the "at least guns can theoretically hurt Batman theoretically". When Bats and Supes take on thugs, we know how both scenes will play out. Just as we know the same for when Spider-Man, Cap, the Punisher etc. and their scenes take on mooks. Mooks have two dramatic functions in comics: first, they're a bit of a speebump between the hero and the main antagonist; second, they give him a chance to show off and look cool. They almost never present a significant threat: the last time any major hero or their loved ones was significantly threatened by a mook was when Uncle Ben died, fifty years ago. When Jason Todd died, they didn't have an anonymous thug do it -- it was the Joker, with the crowbar, in the library... well, not the library. Thugs don't do anything of consequence to any major character anymore.
If you want to say Supes is dull, boring, or irrelevant... well, I wouldn't agree, but that's an opinion to which a person is entitled. Think a lot of his stories are lacking? I won't disagree with that: I can't think of too many comics characters who have that longevity who don't have a lot of dross. Dislike him as the poster boy for boy scout/four color heroes? Well, judging by costumes and bios, a lot of CO's audience shares your opinion.
However, please spare me the line that he's not a "real hero". Not liking a character does not give you the right to strip a character of that label when they consistently demonstrate the three main qualities of a hero: courage, perserverance, and self-sacrifice. Supes doesn't back down against opponents who outmatch him, and he's willing to take a heckuva beating and keep going, and he wouldn't hesitate to take a kryptonite bullet for those he loves... or a stranger... or even most of his enemies. Sure seems like a classic hero to me.
I agree. And if you remember, during the No Man's Land storyline, Superman came into Gotham. There was a lot of praise about Earth's most powerful hero arriving... and being completely powerless to do anything.
One of the things Clark's been doing recently is taking a step back, and being the 'example' rather than the 'messiah'. He knows it's better for people to take care of themselves than to wait around for someone to save them.
If we're going to label a hero boring, I'm looking at Spawn. Nothing irked me more than the character's ability to overcome anything with godlike power- oh, and considering that he was a hero with limited power at first, it was a huge slap in the face.
Now this post I had to leave in it's entirety because it's pretty spot on. I hadn't even RP'd in Caprice in a long time so I dropped in there with a character a couple days ago. He's basically a "Superboy" on the power scale, but I play him pretty low key. Anyway, the whole place was demons, servant demons looking for someone to "collar" them, gods, elder gods, and so on.
I read everyone's bios and many of them said "I am a complete angry jerk" and the player was indeed RP'ing a complete angry jerk to make it realistic. I was chuckling at a room full of god/demon jerks all arguing with each other. Who seriously wants to socialize with people who just want to RP angry all the time? Is anybody ever happy? Are there any non-twisted tortured souls that hang out in Caprice? That night my character was the only one in a good mood. No joke.
Of course another common factor was "I can't die" or "My powers are beyond understanding" or in one case of a demonic assassin in human form who had "poison blood that can kill anything...even an elder god or demon."
I was like seriously? There literally was not one "super hero" in the place...except me. I eventually left because the bios were so hilariously silly. I mean god, angels, and demons get banished/struck down to earth with their unlimited power still intact and all they want to do is go hang at a bar talking over each other and looking for mini-pet slaves to control? Pure insanity.
Just seems like they're really missing what the genre is about. Unless they've never explored past Punisher, Wolverine, or Spawn. :rolleyes:
I know that there is some portion of the player base that is here for the character customization in a modern setting rather than the superhero genre.
They might be, but if they were the RPers they claimed to be, they would understand to fit their character into the genre, instead of trying to force whatever half baked genre *coughsvampirecoughs* into Champions.
I dont disagree. There are a lot of World of Darkness characters (Vampires, Werewolves, etc) in CO.
And for the record I do find Supes a little boring, but that's mainly because.. ehh.. he doesn;t get the depth of character displayed often enough. Needs more "World of Cardboard" moments. In that moment there? I loved[/i[ Supes.
..still find Bats the more interesting character overall -- even if in part its because of the interesting situation that in a very real way Bats should probably be locked up like the huge majority of his ROgues' Gallery -- who themselves add a lot to my love of the character and mythos. Just my opinion, but I personally consider Bats to have the best 'Gallery in comics overall.
Span had depth but yeah, not read in years but hear he got.. kinda absurd and lost sight of themes and origins.
While vampires of a certain assumed background might not fit comfortably into the Champions Universe, one of the beauties of the comic-book genre is that it can accomodate almost any character concept from any other genre: Gothic horror, science-fiction, mythology, modern adventure, fantasy, noir, space-opera, etc. etc.
Of course the CU already has several vampire characters in it -- it's just that they're neither secret masters of the world, nor angst-ridden and sparkly.
Yeah, it is supposed to be about the Masquerade....supposed to be.
When handled right it was very fun and a nice change of pace from most other RPG's. Otherwise...not that unlike what is being complained about here.
For what it's worth, I've seen numerous bios with direct references to various WoD factions, and I've heard the factions come up in IC dialogue in Caprice. It's certainly a primary inspiration to many of the occult RPers in this game, including some of the better ones -- not a suprise, given how widely gamers have been exposed to the books over the last twenty years, the quality of writing in some of them, and how much Tavern RP resembles LARP.
Agreed on all points.
Besides there has only been one book I have ever read where one of the characters was perfect. That's right, the bible. Need I remind anyone of how that worked out for him?
So to all you Godmodders, if you pass my way, please leave me be. I would hate to have to smite you with my unholy hammer Buttkickitus it is a level 200. Does 6 million points of wth damage, and can reach across the 4th wall, out of your monitor and palmsmack you on the forehead.
Since playing recently though, I avoid Club Caprice for all the reasons OP posted and only go there for the VBA starter missions.
Of course, as a direct result, I get next to no RP time. The most recent RP session I had, it wasn't even with one of my own characters, but rather with Brigade. But even so, I got to flesh him out some and make him my own. So that was enjoyable at least.
I miss my friends from back then. I'm the only member of my SG that still plays. Everyone else is "Last online before the last online feature went live." ;_;
I did LOL at TKanes point about the Goddess of Love and Beauty, as I had one of those yesterday...a demon of desire (oh another lesbian succubus no doubt) tried to 'seduce' one of my characters who is entirely hetrosexual by flicking a forked tongue in her ear...I ran away very quickly