Does this also include gender restrictions too?
I want the Harajuku Girl low glasses for my male toon.
Good point.
All items for both genders is neccessary for the game to not be sexist and not be transphobic and just to allow for full and propoer creativity.
Good point.
All items for both genders is neccessary for the game to not be sexist and not be transphobic and just to allow for full and propoer creativity.
There are so many costume peices that could go for either gender but are limited to just one.
The Op is so spot on. Stop freaking waste time on checking what clips with what Cryptic, and allow all pieces that can go together go together, simple as that!
Or at least please give use a "no sleeves" options in jackets and coats, sot that i can have more bracers and hands options available for my coats wearing toons...
It's really stressfull to have only 5 options for bracers when wearing Coats, and 4 of them is just stupide looking...
I want to be able to wear my gladiator/Ninja/Dark Armor bracers options while i wear a coat!
They aren't worried about the clipping, they're worried about the drain of resources it would cause when people put every option they can on.
Due to the way the system works it has to render every option you select for your characters even if you can't see it.
I seriously doubt that having Necklace A (which is allowed with Chest Pieces, for example) on would actually drain more game resources than having Necklace B (which isn't allowed) instead, and in fact I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't--since we already have the ability to have X amount of pieces regardless. Its just that certain specific pieces within groups aren't allowed (such as certain belts or neck pieces not being allowed with chest pieces or jackets, etc.). How can wearning neck piece A drain more game resources than wearing neck piece B?
More likely, they're worried about:
A) What people that don't even play the game (particularly gaming magazines and such) might say if Cryptic allowed this to happen ("OMG, they allow ANY piece now, even if it clips*! Talk about lack of QA :rolleyes:"). And more importantly...
The drain on time and monetary resources to pay Cryptic personnel to add each piece to each category, since they apparently have to do it individually (they said something like this back with the Bubble helms for dogs and bear heads craze).
The drain on time and monetary resources to pay Cryptic personnel to add each piece to each category, since they apparently have to do it individually (they said something like this back with the Bubble helms for dogs and bear heads craze).y
Bug on PTS showed that they can unlock everything in 1 go, so that's not the case.
They aren't worried about the clipping, they're worried about the drain of resources it would cause when people put every option they can on.
Due to the way the system works it has to render every option you select for your characters even if you can't see it.
Agreed.
From my experiences with other games, piling too many items on a character model can cause some serious performance issues.
I've also seen situations where you simply cannot apply something to a specific model due to the way the model is constructed. For example, sometimes "sleeves" aren't placed onto an "arm" component...they ARE the component itself, meaning anything you place on it is actually placed on the sleeve and not the "arm" (and yeah, I'm over-simplifying things).
If that's the case here, it would require the devs to go back and rebuild (including all animations and fx) the models from scratch, which is just not cost- or time-effective.
Don't get me wrong....I'd like to see all items opened on all models too, but if we're talking a fundamental change to character models, I just don't see it happening.
Bug on PTS showed that they can unlock everything in 1 go, so that's not the case.
I guess they lied to us then
Though, I think that they might have been talking more about the work involved in hooking them up on our end (so we'd have them available from the droplists, etc.) than whether they were available in the system or not. But don't know.
From my experiences with other games, piling too many items on a character model can cause some serious performance issues.
Except that the main argument about this topic is not about stacking a bunch of random items together, its about allowing us to use pieces from categories that are already allowed and would drain game resources anyways. Its not about stacking three different chest pieces together to see how they look or anything of that nature.
If people where saying "Please, let us pile every single costume piece in the game on top of eachother" I might be inclined to agree. But what people are saying is "please, let us use this or that necklace or belt with a chest piece"--when you already let us use necklaces and belts with chest pieces. Or "please let us use a skirt or more hip pieces with beast legs"--when they already let us use (a very limited variety of) hip pieces with beast legs.
How exactly does the "it would drain too much game resources and lag" argument fit into that?
I've also seen situations where you simply cannot apply something to a specific model due to the way the model is constructed. For example, sometimes "sleeves" aren't placed onto an "arm" component...they ARE the component itself, meaning anything you place on it is actually placed on the sleeve and not the "arm" (and yeah, I'm over-simplifying things).
If that's the case here, it would require the devs to go back and rebuild (including all animations and fx) the models from scratch, which is just not cost- or time-effective.
Its not. Its mostly stuff that can already be used in the way people would like to use them. There were even some videos and JPG samples posted somewhere by some players (Brou and Bluhman) showing evidence that these combinations were already possible (Link), but its currently not allowd or setup that way on our end.
Don't get me wrong....I'd like to see all items opened on all models too, but if we're talking a fundamental change to character models, I just don't see it happening.
No one's talking about making fundamental changes to character models.
Except that the main argument about this topic is not about stacking a bunch of random items together, its about allowing us to use pieces from categories that are already allowed and would drain game resources anyways. Its not about stacking three different chest pieces together to see how they look or anything of that nature.
The resource drain is due to the rendering concerns the other poster mentioned.
If people where saying "Please, let us pile every single costume piece in the game on top of eachother" I might be inclined to agree. But what people are saying is "please, let us use this or that necklace or belt with a chest piece"--when you already let us use necklaces and belts with chest pieces. Or "please let us use a skirt or more hip pieces with beast legs"--when they already let us use (a very limited variety of) hip pieces with beast legs.
How exactly does the "it would drain too much game resources and lag" argument fit into that?
I haven't looked at the models in this game, so I couldn't tell you. I'm just speaking from the perspective of having done some VERY basic modelling in other games. It may or may not apply here.
No one's talking about making fundamental changes to character models.
I know, but what they are talking about could potentially require that. Although, I suppose they would have thrown that back at us if that were, in fact, the case.
Even if it's not a fundamental change, it would be (as you yourself noted) a major overhaul requiring a lot of man-hours, and man-hours cost money.
As I said before, I'm all for it - I spend as much time in the CC as I do in the game. I'm just saying there could be larger issues that have to do with more than simply denying players an option.
As I said before, I'm all for it - I spend as much time in the CC as I do in the game. I'm just saying there could be larger issues that have to do with more than simply denying players an option.
Not for nothin' but... if that's the case why say over & over again that's its a clipping issue. I'd be fine if Cryptic said something like
"sorry guys, we can't do that right now its not cost effective"
at least then we can start with the old "put it on the docket" routine or whatever...
Just tried to make a monster 'transformed' costume switch.
I wanted the Vampire Long Jaw with the Jack of Fool's Demonic Bird Mask and they arent "compatable"
WHAT!
The Vampire Long Jaw is a normal head just with a longer jaw. The zombie head is considered a normal head so why not the Vampire Long Jaw head?
I've also seen situations where you simply cannot apply something to a specific model due to the way the model is constructed. For example, sometimes "sleeves" aren't placed onto an "arm" component...they ARE the component itself, meaning anything you place on it is actually placed on the sleeve and not the "arm" (and yeah, I'm over-simplifying things).
If that's the case here, it would require the devs to go back and rebuild (including all animations and fx) the models from scratch, which is just not cost- or time-effective.
That's very much not the case from what we can see. With the exception of obvious replacers like robotic feet, clawed hands, etc. we can examples of costume pieces that have clipping issue with the base model itself (off the top of my head, the long tight boots under the long skirt option clips with the skin/tights under it, one of the smaller, right shoulder pads clips with the shoulder it overlays, and more recently the 90s chest straps don't scale with female chest sizes).
We can also see that under the robotic left/right/both arms category there are neck costume pieces that clip with chest wear (and sometimes clip very nicely), but are completely unavailable under the chest wear category. If chest options replaced the entire chest, it should not be possible for particularly large neck pieces (like the nephilim large, spiked vent, Egyptian, and Persian) to coexist with the chest armors, yet they do.
Concern about reworking animation and FX are also a moot point, because these are tied to the bone rigging rather than the models themselves. The only time you would have to change all animations and FX is if you change the model's shape significantly enough to render the old bone rigging obsolete.
That being said, like you, I've only dabbled in modeling a little bit, so I'm neither a professional nor aware of what's under the hood. However I suspect the availability of costume pieces (with the exception of availability between male and female bodies, those actually have to be made separately) is dictated only by a set of flags and setting them all to "true" shouldn't be a herculean undertaking.
I want to have more variations of hair style for Hats & Helmet and want to have more variations of Chest Layer over Full Shirt. There are many costume pieces now, yes, but most of them are very restricted in choose.
Anyone else thinks that new executive producer would listen to player's needs, or he would be just yet another mule for PWE to ride on to money heaven?
Exactly. "But there would be clipping!" is about as good an excuse as "But there would be clones!".
Actually, it's even less. No one will sue Cryptic for clipping, after all. :rolleyes:
Didn't feel like reading all 43 pages, so if this was mentioned before--just ignore me.
I agree with the first 5 points. However, there is a reason to not allow certain pieces to come together, this reason is that obscene outfits (thought they did allow Gravitar's...) are avoided.
Being that this is the only, even somewhat viable reason, the 5 prior points negate it. People will make obscene characters because of the wide customization. Don't inhibit, it doesn't behoove you or the players to do so. Any problems that come up with it can be dealt with on an individual reporting process.
However, there is a reason to not allow certain pieces to come together, this reason is that obscene outfits (thought they did allow Gravitar's...) are avoided.
I wondered about that, to be honest. I can't take Gravitar seriously. She looks far too much like a 1920s hooker.
I agree with the first 5 points. However, there is a reason to not allow certain pieces to come together, this reason is that obscene outfits (thought they did allow Gravitar's...) are avoided.
What?
Okay, seriously, name just one unavailable combination of costume pieces that would give the impression of something as obscene as a character clad only in flesh-colored tights.
And no, Halterless Top + anything is not obscene. :rolleyes:
Okay, seriously, name just one unavailable combination of costume pieces that would give the impression of something as obscene as a character clad only in flesh-colored tights.
And no, Halterless Top + anything is not obscene. :rolleyes:
We lack the crotch-parts and the technology to make even more obscene characters. :cool:
Again, why are so many hip wear options invalid for Robotic Legs and Bestial Legs? The part that hip wear covers isn't even affected by the change in leg design!
Again, why are so many hip wear options invalid for Robotic Legs and Bestial Legs? The part that hip wear covers isn't even affected by the change in leg design!
Yeah. And on the other hand, if you have robot legs, you can use hips wear and a belt together!
I agree that restrictions should be removed from using certain suit parts together.I would love to put on both bracers of warlord while wearing chest layer armor.I had to photoshop what i would ome up with if it were possible in gtame and this was what i got:
I recently discovered a cape option that I had all along, but I never knew it existed because I only used capes with chest armor until I got the new Nighthawk tights. Who knows how many options I'm oblivious about because of these restrictions? /Signed if I haven't already signed before in this thread.
Comments
Does this also include gender restrictions too?
I want the Harajuku Girl low glasses for my male toon.
Good point.
All items for both genders is neccessary for the game to not be sexist and not be transphobic and just to allow for full and propoer creativity.
There are so many costume peices that could go for either gender but are limited to just one.
/signed
/signed
It's really stressfull to have only 5 options for bracers when wearing Coats, and 4 of them is just stupide looking...
I want to be able to wear my gladiator/Ninja/Dark Armor bracers options while i wear a coat!
Sadly, Cryptic is worried about 'But the CLIPPING!?!?!!!11oneone!!".
I do wish they'd remove that stance.
They aren't worried about the clipping, they're worried about the drain of resources it would cause when people put every option they can on.
Due to the way the system works it has to render every option you select for your characters even if you can't see it.
I seriously doubt that having Necklace A (which is allowed with Chest Pieces, for example) on would actually drain more game resources than having Necklace B (which isn't allowed) instead, and in fact I'm willing to bet that it wouldn't--since we already have the ability to have X amount of pieces regardless. Its just that certain specific pieces within groups aren't allowed (such as certain belts or neck pieces not being allowed with chest pieces or jackets, etc.). How can wearning neck piece A drain more game resources than wearing neck piece B?
More likely, they're worried about:
A) What people that don't even play the game (particularly gaming magazines and such) might say if Cryptic allowed this to happen ("OMG, they allow ANY piece now, even if it clips*! Talk about lack of QA :rolleyes:"). And more importantly...
*like this doesn't happen already
Bug on PTS showed that they can unlock everything in 1 go, so that's not the case.
Agreed.
From my experiences with other games, piling too many items on a character model can cause some serious performance issues.
I've also seen situations where you simply cannot apply something to a specific model due to the way the model is constructed. For example, sometimes "sleeves" aren't placed onto an "arm" component...they ARE the component itself, meaning anything you place on it is actually placed on the sleeve and not the "arm" (and yeah, I'm over-simplifying things).
If that's the case here, it would require the devs to go back and rebuild (including all animations and fx) the models from scratch, which is just not cost- or time-effective.
Don't get me wrong....I'd like to see all items opened on all models too, but if we're talking a fundamental change to character models, I just don't see it happening.
I guess they lied to us then
Though, I think that they might have been talking more about the work involved in hooking them up on our end (so we'd have them available from the droplists, etc.) than whether they were available in the system or not. But don't know.
Except that the main argument about this topic is not about stacking a bunch of random items together, its about allowing us to use pieces from categories that are already allowed and would drain game resources anyways. Its not about stacking three different chest pieces together to see how they look or anything of that nature.
If people where saying "Please, let us pile every single costume piece in the game on top of eachother" I might be inclined to agree. But what people are saying is "please, let us use this or that necklace or belt with a chest piece"--when you already let us use necklaces and belts with chest pieces. Or "please let us use a skirt or more hip pieces with beast legs"--when they already let us use (a very limited variety of) hip pieces with beast legs.
How exactly does the "it would drain too much game resources and lag" argument fit into that?
Its not. Its mostly stuff that can already be used in the way people would like to use them. There were even some videos and JPG samples posted somewhere by some players (Brou and Bluhman) showing evidence that these combinations were already possible (Link), but its currently not allowd or setup that way on our end.
No one's talking about making fundamental changes to character models.
The resource drain is due to the rendering concerns the other poster mentioned.
I haven't looked at the models in this game, so I couldn't tell you. I'm just speaking from the perspective of having done some VERY basic modelling in other games. It may or may not apply here.
I know, but what they are talking about could potentially require that. Although, I suppose they would have thrown that back at us if that were, in fact, the case.
Even if it's not a fundamental change, it would be (as you yourself noted) a major overhaul requiring a lot of man-hours, and man-hours cost money.
As I said before, I'm all for it - I spend as much time in the CC as I do in the game. I'm just saying there could be larger issues that have to do with more than simply denying players an option.
Not for nothin' but... if that's the case why say over & over again that's its a clipping issue. I'd be fine if Cryptic said something like
"sorry guys, we can't do that right now its not cost effective"
at least then we can start with the old "put it on the docket" routine or whatever...
/Signed
Just tried to make a monster 'transformed' costume switch.
I wanted the Vampire Long Jaw with the Jack of Fool's Demonic Bird Mask and they arent "compatable"
WHAT!
The Vampire Long Jaw is a normal head just with a longer jaw. The zombie head is considered a normal head so why not the Vampire Long Jaw head?
We can also see that under the robotic left/right/both arms category there are neck costume pieces that clip with chest wear (and sometimes clip very nicely), but are completely unavailable under the chest wear category. If chest options replaced the entire chest, it should not be possible for particularly large neck pieces (like the nephilim large, spiked vent, Egyptian, and Persian) to coexist with the chest armors, yet they do.
Concern about reworking animation and FX are also a moot point, because these are tied to the bone rigging rather than the models themselves. The only time you would have to change all animations and FX is if you change the model's shape significantly enough to render the old bone rigging obsolete.
That being said, like you, I've only dabbled in modeling a little bit, so I'm neither a professional nor aware of what's under the hood. However I suspect the availability of costume pieces (with the exception of availability between male and female bodies, those actually have to be made separately) is dictated only by a set of flags and setting them all to "true" shouldn't be a herculean undertaking.
been wanting this for ages... especially since i saw the ninja tranformations... wasted my questionite curse that cyberpunk armour...
YES!!!
I want to have more variations of hair style for Hats & Helmet and want to have more variations of Chest Layer over Full Shirt. There are many costume pieces now, yes, but most of them are very restricted in choose.
I don't see why there is restrictions like this. If player want to create terrible looking costume he/she can do it even now.
Actually, it's even less. No one will sue Cryptic for clipping, after all. :rolleyes:
I agree with the first 5 points. However, there is a reason to not allow certain pieces to come together, this reason is that obscene outfits (thought they did allow Gravitar's...) are avoided.
Being that this is the only, even somewhat viable reason, the 5 prior points negate it. People will make obscene characters because of the wide customization. Don't inhibit, it doesn't behoove you or the players to do so. Any problems that come up with it can be dealt with on an individual reporting process.
~ Flare
I wondered about that, to be honest. I can't take Gravitar seriously. She looks far too much like a 1920s hooker.
What?
Okay, seriously, name just one unavailable combination of costume pieces that would give the impression of something as obscene as a character clad only in flesh-colored tights.
And no, Halterless Top + anything is not obscene. :rolleyes:
We lack the crotch-parts and the technology to make even more obscene characters. :cool:
Yeah. And on the other hand, if you have robot legs, you can use hips wear and a belt together!
Totally agree with every single point from those six exposed. Pretty please, just do it PWE/Cryptic! :biggrin:
120% signed.
Give some love to the beast heads and hats! Also beast legs and hips!! I want skirts for mah kitty cat!!
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
I would totally love to combine the vet reward magician costume jacket tail with the military jacket to have epic look. :biggrin:
I wonder Devs even looking at here.
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/Knight-Racer/cybersentrywhatcouldhavebeen.jpg?t=1347500519
[SIGPIC]Too late![/SIGPIC]
No doubt about it.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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