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Remove Restrictions on Costume Pieces Being Used Together
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
I'll be blunt and as clear as possible: Let us police our own clipping issues. I'll give you SIX, count them, six good reasons why you should.
1. It makes life better for you, AND for us.
You like making new, cool content to keep us coming back. Some of that is costume pieces. But time you spend checking costume pieces against each other to make sure they don't clip is time you're not spending making that new awesome hat, or some other cool content. On the flip side, suddenly we have tons more costume combinations possible all without you doing JACK. That oughta keep us quiet for at least a month, don't you think? :P
2. Most of us want our characters to look good.
I don't know if you've noticed, but there's already a good number of pieces that clip into each other in the Tailor. And the thing is... you don't see a bunch of toons walking around with massive clipping issues. Most characters look fairly normal, why is that? It's because we -already- make sure our costumes don't clip badly. Why is that? Because in general we want our characters to look cool. That means when we put a 'Top Accessory' option our our character and it clips badly with the hair we chose, we pass that option over, or if we want it more than the hair, we choose a different hairstyle that doesn't clip as bad. We can do that with all the other options unlocked as well, and we will.
3. You aren't going to stop people from making their characters look terrible if they really want them to.
There's already people out there who choose costume pieces which don't go together at all, who paint their characters all over with garish, clashing neons and pastels. There are COSTUME CONTESTS which give away prizes for the worst costume. The thing is? We can ignore those people REAL easy. We just turn our camera the other direction, or move to a different spot on the map. If they decide to add terrible clipping to their costumes... it's really not going to make them look any worse than they already look. And hey, it's their choice to do that right?
4. Some of the costume pieces you have restricted against using together wouldn't clip after all.
Okay, the major reason I started this thread: I like the 'Wrapped Scarf' back option. It doesn't work with Chest Wear. Why? Because it clips with some (not ALL, not even MOST, just SOME) of the Chest Wear options, mostly the big gigantic anime-ish armor options. I don't want to use it with that, I want to use it with the piece called 'Fur Chest and Back'. It wouldn't clip with this at ALL. Note: the solution to this is not to make Wrapped Scarf usable ONLY with Fur Chest and Back: it's not even to make Wrapped Scarf usable with all Chest Wear. It's to make ALL costume pieces able to be used with each other. If something clips and looks ugly, we'll just not use it. Simple as that.
5. Sometimes clipping produces an effect we like, and sometimes we think a tiny bit of clipping is acceptable to get the look we want.
"Oh, whoa, that necklace clips right through that armor piece... wait... now it looks like the jewel is directly embedded in the plate mail. Awesome!"
"This armor kind of clips with the back rifle a bit, but it still looks okay."
Sometimes clipping is a happy surprise for us instead of a mild disappointment. Let us find more of those! Other times it just really doesn't look THAT bad or it doesn't bother us that much compared to getting the look we want. Let us do that if we want to, it's our character, we have to stare at it all the time, not you.
6. There's NO reason not to.
This is the big one. What's the REAL reason you're stopping us from using certain pieces together? You aren't stopping people from making ugly costumes that DON'T clip, so why stop us from making NICE costumes with a little bit of clipping? If it doesn't affect gameplay adversely (note: affecting gameplay adversely means like... creating a MAJOR graphical error, like this bizarre glitch from Fallout 3. A little bit of clipping is NOT a major graphical error.) you should let us do it.
1. It makes life better for you, AND for us.
You like making new, cool content to keep us coming back. Some of that is costume pieces. But time you spend checking costume pieces against each other to make sure they don't clip is time you're not spending making that new awesome hat, or some other cool content. On the flip side, suddenly we have tons more costume combinations possible all without you doing JACK. That oughta keep us quiet for at least a month, don't you think? :P
2. Most of us want our characters to look good.
I don't know if you've noticed, but there's already a good number of pieces that clip into each other in the Tailor. And the thing is... you don't see a bunch of toons walking around with massive clipping issues. Most characters look fairly normal, why is that? It's because we -already- make sure our costumes don't clip badly. Why is that? Because in general we want our characters to look cool. That means when we put a 'Top Accessory' option our our character and it clips badly with the hair we chose, we pass that option over, or if we want it more than the hair, we choose a different hairstyle that doesn't clip as bad. We can do that with all the other options unlocked as well, and we will.
3. You aren't going to stop people from making their characters look terrible if they really want them to.
There's already people out there who choose costume pieces which don't go together at all, who paint their characters all over with garish, clashing neons and pastels. There are COSTUME CONTESTS which give away prizes for the worst costume. The thing is? We can ignore those people REAL easy. We just turn our camera the other direction, or move to a different spot on the map. If they decide to add terrible clipping to their costumes... it's really not going to make them look any worse than they already look. And hey, it's their choice to do that right?
4. Some of the costume pieces you have restricted against using together wouldn't clip after all.
Okay, the major reason I started this thread: I like the 'Wrapped Scarf' back option. It doesn't work with Chest Wear. Why? Because it clips with some (not ALL, not even MOST, just SOME) of the Chest Wear options, mostly the big gigantic anime-ish armor options. I don't want to use it with that, I want to use it with the piece called 'Fur Chest and Back'. It wouldn't clip with this at ALL. Note: the solution to this is not to make Wrapped Scarf usable ONLY with Fur Chest and Back: it's not even to make Wrapped Scarf usable with all Chest Wear. It's to make ALL costume pieces able to be used with each other. If something clips and looks ugly, we'll just not use it. Simple as that.
5. Sometimes clipping produces an effect we like, and sometimes we think a tiny bit of clipping is acceptable to get the look we want.
"Oh, whoa, that necklace clips right through that armor piece... wait... now it looks like the jewel is directly embedded in the plate mail. Awesome!"
"This armor kind of clips with the back rifle a bit, but it still looks okay."
Sometimes clipping is a happy surprise for us instead of a mild disappointment. Let us find more of those! Other times it just really doesn't look THAT bad or it doesn't bother us that much compared to getting the look we want. Let us do that if we want to, it's our character, we have to stare at it all the time, not you.
6. There's NO reason not to.
This is the big one. What's the REAL reason you're stopping us from using certain pieces together? You aren't stopping people from making ugly costumes that DON'T clip, so why stop us from making NICE costumes with a little bit of clipping? If it doesn't affect gameplay adversely (note: affecting gameplay adversely means like... creating a MAJOR graphical error, like this bizarre glitch from Fallout 3. A little bit of clipping is NOT a major graphical error.) you should let us do it.
Post edited by Archived Post on
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100% signed. I really have nothing to add that you haven't already said. If the entire CC was opened up, and all items usable with each other there would be some truly awesome costumes around.
The costume creator in CO is by far the best there is in any game (imo), make it better!
So hard. And so true. If something clips too badly, we should be able to chose if we want to use it or not. And I'd figure like Savage said, it'd make the job easier on you guys. Whats stoppin' ya?
That said, there's lots of pieces that should just work with other parts anyhow (Short/Medium Skirts and Bestial/Robotic legs for starters) and just don't. This, in theory, would solve that.
I'm with it.
and Waffle Oreos for all
I heard they don't do this because they don't want bug reports.
That's... really not a good reason. I understand they don't want to get inundated with useless bug reports, but... Bug reports have a specific interface, they can add a note to them that reads NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT REPORT COSTUME CLIPPING AS A BUG. I know people will report it anyways, but again, there's costumes that clip together in the Tailor RIGHT NOW, do they get a lot of bug reports over those? If so, maybe they need to clear that up.
Heck, I can even think of an 'evil' way to keep them from getting those useless bug reports, add a 'costume clipping' option to the bug report system and have it just... not make a real report. >.> I'd actually prefer the former, though. Either way, if someone can't understand that clipping issues ARE going to happen with this level of customization, they need a reality check and hard.
-Pi
This. This so hard. There are so many possible combinations available that we can't access just because they *might* clip. It's an awesome character creator and freeing us up to self police our clipping errors could really take the chains off of it!
YES, Please!
This says it all. Really good post, by the way
Please free us up to customize our characters the way we want to. Some costume clipping issues won't break the game.
Do want so much. If in-game NPCs can cheat by wearing two chest wear pieces , then we should be able to... Still not be cheating by clipping. Although multiple chest pieces would be fun, too.
/signed
DO EEET NAUUGH.
Please?
I'd love for this to happen.
I don't see why we can't have this. More options are good options I say! *nods*
I don't see how it is wrong to be several feet taller either, I mean so what if you clip through doors, let the clippage be arranged!
Clipping is seriously one of the major factors that drives my costume creation. Moar clipping FTW!
CAN'T... RESIST...
/signed.
But, in all seriousness, I want to be able to use Wrapped Scarf with hoods. You can bypass the clipping with certain capes and stuff.
Let's see
- Actual scarves with chest pieces
- Able to construct sleeves with the new ninja chest pieces (like I did on the old Ghi)
- I can wear a big belt again with some silly chest hair!
- Probably even more reasons that I'm missing.
- But then again, Clipping is unheard of in the current edition.
'you have entered unstable character creator mode, this may cause clipping issues. These are NOT bugs, do you accept?'
There are already plenty of options that cause clipping, usually just because of the way you choose to have your character stand. Trust us, we want our characters to look good. Give us a little more freedom to do that, please.
since this would be the only problem and its solved!!! /signed.
give us a toggle in options, and make it the non-default.
/Signed It sounds so easy to implement. I would love to see this happen.
I'd like to combine the leopard skin on one of my characters with the tight wrapped straps thing... it kind of ruin the effect if I can see part of the belly of that wolf going from white to dark gray when being naked and it is fully white while it wears something which lets some of the fur be visible...
inb4 "ill send this to devs" and then nothing spawning from it.
If you agree with this, sign it and send it to your friends.
Glad you bumped this, great post and great idea that echoes a feeling we've all probably had at one point when designing a costume and finding that the combinations we wanted were impossible even though they wouldn't even clip.
Though given how long we've been saying this I've kind of lost hope that it's even being heard now.
Please do. A majority of chest pieces are rather bear, anyway, and could allow things like larger/belly belts. Also, I would love to have the long wrapped scarf around my fluffy feline toons with the chest fur.
The possibilities! They must be endless!
The number of neck pieces that can't be used with chest pieces alone is ridiculous, specially since almost none of them would clip with almost none of the chest pieces. I recently bought one of the halloween costume sets and the skull necklace isn't allowed with chest pieces even though it wouldn't clip with most of them (I wanted to make a Dark Enforcers version of one of my outfits using the bustier strapless and the skull necklace--skulls in general being used as an emblem for our SG *points to siggy*). The arcane necklace with the huge sphere, though, is allowed, yet it clips with chest pieces more than any other neck piece.
Frankly, it makes no sense. And we'd get a TON more costume options unlocking this.
Regardless, I would love to see this come to fruition. There's a few costume ideas I'd be able to realize if this were so.
I love the new street defender set, but the amount of pieces that can cause clipping with some of the other pieces in the game is incredible. The jackets and chest pieces alone cause clipping with almost every single long hair style, and I'm sure I found plenty more instances of clipping with that set I can't think of right now. Yet we don't need the pieces that clip to be removed, we can simply choose not to use them--problem solved--same thing with every other piece in the game.
Though, I would like to see some of those urban jackets/chest pieces without those huge neck things they have, so I can wear them with long haired characters
As pointed out, there are sets released with clipping problems. So, yeah, just let us all use any combinations we'd like for our costumes.
/signed
In more specifics as others have pointed out, there are a huge number of pieces still "in play" that have clipping issues, ranging from minor to glaring (long tails and capes? Buh? Who missed *that* one, if things were disabled for clipping?).
As a short-term solution, enabling all combinations via a (default-disabled) toggle for "let me shoot^H^H^H^H^H clip myself in the foot" seems like the simplest answer, and will let folks make use of the many currently-disabled combinations that shouldn't be.
In an ideal world, the engine would support actual physics models for things like capes, collars, and tails, at the very least for those of us with spare graphics hardware to burn; this is also pretty much the only way to ever completely resolve clipping issues, which will then just become "gah this combination of collars looks stupid" issues.
As an alternative, possibly-better long term solution: provide a way for folks to register "these two costume pieces have a clipping conflict" within the tailor, that goes to an automated tracker. Once there are enough reports of a given combination to exceed a minimal threshold (to avoid false positives on accidental submissions), add it to a list of reported issues; even then, keep track of how often it is reported.
When the costume design folks have time (hah!), looking at that list will not only tell them what pieces have been actually observed clipping, but which ones are getting noticed most and thus are good candidates for adding to the list of things that are disabled-unless-you-toggle-them-in.
In fact, if you do it correctly, you could remove the entire list of "what clips" and post a build with this functionality to the PTS, then ask folks to specifically go look for clipping issues there and use the tool to report them. Not only would that give you a good test of the tool, it'll also give you a reasonably solid set of starting data for what to list as "known clipping issues" before it ever goes to live, while remove the current restrictions on things that work just fine.
It'll also lower your clipping-report load when you put new costume sets onto the PTS (and probably produce much better and more frequent reports, as it would be much easier to select two items in the tailor and say 'these clip' than it is to try to pop back and forth between the editor and a browser to make a forum post).
Remember that one of the prime developer virtues is laziness: when you can distribute the task of searching for clipping issues over thousands of users rather than one or two designers, and get better results because the designers then only have to look at things folks actually care about, it is definitely a good opportunity to be lazy.