The following options would be available in all of the head categories:
Helmets (with the exception of Luchador)(this includes face mask options)
I keep forgeting the Face Mask and Armor category exists
SUGGESTION: DO NOT put the mask in the same category with hats and helmets, Create a MASK Category for them and add already existing mask in this category (but don't remove them from their original categories, just duplicate them)
People want to combine Masks with Helmets and Hats, most significant example the Plague Mask, you cannot make a Plague Dotor because the piece is in the Head Wear and it blocks the Hats (except if you use Simian Head)
If you enter the tailor and decide you don't want to make any changes, clicking back without purchasing the costume would undo the changes and your legacy costume will remain intact.
If you choose the purchase the changes you would not be able to get that old costume back.
Will the Costume Loading still work? I have saved all my characters' costumes and screenshot their body scaling for any case
Yeah, removing the tailor fee for a limited time when this change hit live would a good idea
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
But yeah a MASK Category would be neat
Maybe someone wants to use the Gas Mask while wearing a Top Hat
or use the Haloween Masks along with funny helmets
please consider this Kaiserin
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
One minor request: allow un-capped options under "partial" upper and lower body categories. While the capped version is usually going to be what is desired, certain chest armor pieces (ancient armor, for example) work very well with an un-capped look, making a sort of a hollow golem type character.
...But even if that request doesn't come through for whatever reason, still support this. Yeah, it'll default large sections of my stored costumes. Don't care. Worth it! (And as someone else pointed out, one of the big things stored costumes are important for - getting slider settings to match up - shouldn't be affected.)
I'm all for the changes. I'm guessing it's kinda like how the game defaults when entering the tailor on PTS, which is annoying but not *too* annoying. I have 20+ account-wide costume slots though. Any way the devs could just drop/lower the costume change fee for a month or something?
However, you may want to have a notice inside the costume editor in the week leading up to the roll-out and a month behind it. I'd really not like to see "Whut happened to my costume?!" in zone a billion times. ;3
I'm all for the changes. I'm guessing it's kinda like how the game defaults when entering the tailor on PTS, which is annoying but not *too* annoying. I have 20+ account-wide costume slots though. Any way the devs could just drop/lower the costume change fee for a month or something?
However, you may want to have a notice inside the costume editor in the week leading up to the roll-out and a month behind it. I'd really not like to see "Whut happened to my costume?!" in zone a billion times. ;3
As noted, if you don't change an existing costume, then nothing will happen. You will only need a costume change token if you change an old look using the new tailor.
Jackets use its own chest options that prevent the jackets from clipping, so this needs its own category. Only jacket chestwear items would be available here.
..... Partial
Many players have been using the chest options made for jackets/robotic that have the limbs removed to get a limbless look. This category would not include those specific pieces, but would instead include a chest option that does not have arms but properly caps the costume so you can't see within the geometry.
My concern with the above conceptually is that beyond arms, unplugged jacket geometry is handy for some partial torso elimination as well. For instance, take the Jacket version of Chest Layer: Ancient Armor. Now combine that with the Chest & Arms options Space Scoundrel or SciFi Soldier. Thanks to the seemingly empty shoulder sockets you get an approximation of an awesome floating empty breastplate (SciFi does this more cleanly though it leaves forearms attached to the hands, unlike Scoundrel). Now if there was an invisible torso option under Partial that just consisted of waist / wrist plugs and allowed for both jacket and normal chest layers, this would probably solve this. I just wanted to bring up that the entire upper body can sometimes be the enemy.
You can't see it from this angle but you can see right down the open neck hole of this dracolich, as well as through the incomplete sides... That is all just pure fun.
I also want to comment about the importance that as many (if not all) Chest & Arm options should still be present in *all* the upper body options, not just the logical ones. Under the Robotic Both Arms setting for instance, the giant gears and wires of Steampunk Arms look great extending out of the surface of the geometry complete Chest & Arm option Robot Samurai.
Speaking of invisible parts, think we could get invisible legs/arms/hands/feet added as costume bits in the future? Or should that be in the other suggestions thread...
While many here have already said it, I wanted to comment real quick. These changes to the categories are phenomenal. Assigning categories based on necessary character geometry is a great way to organize it, and it makes me happy that the developers have taken the time to update what I feel is one of the most important parts of the game. I hope I speak for everyone when I say that this makes me excited, not just for this, but for other quality of life changes that may happen in the future. Thanks!
On medium / long dresses: Some of these do need their matching specialized geometry to avoid clipping. Others - like the new shadows waist cape - really don't, and should be made available under other categories.
And as long as we're on the topic of dresses - any chance of getting a beast legs variant that has the thinner upper leg sections to let it work with medium dresses?
Collars would not be merged with anything, they would just be moved to the upper region.
Moving unlockable costumes from one selection menu to another (like moving the plated bull mask from mouth accessories to eye accessories) is not something we can currently do. Players would have to unlock the costume again in order to use it in its new location.
I've seen some cool things done with the current limbless pieces, but they were never meant to be used without their respective costumes (jackets, robotic limbs, etc). It's possible that we could introduce other partial chest/legs options that can be seen through.
I've seen some cool things done with the current limbless pieces, but they were never meant to be used without their respective costumes (jackets, robotic limbs, etc). It's possible that we could introduce other partial chest/legs options that can be seen through.
So basically is this statement implying the existing options would likely be lost under the proposed changes (except for costumes that are already on characters) until some theoretical future point? Regardless of how alternate part geometry was originally intended to be used, I personally don't want to loose options that we have presently if there is no likely / timely alternative.
So basically is this statement implying the existing options would likely be lost under the proposed changes (except for costumes that are already on characters) until some theoretical future point? Regardless of how alternate part geometry was originally intended to be used, I personally don't want to loose options that we have presently if there is no likely / timely alternative.
The current limbless chest and legs options from jackets, robotics, and long skirts would not be available in the partial categories.
I love these changes, however if I can make a few suggestions is if we can make the caps for invisible limbs optional. I feel some of my character costume concepts work a little better when you can see inside of them as it gives them the 'haunted' armor look rather than 'Rayman.' And if I am unable to use costume parts like ancient armor chest with the hollow effects, it would completely ruin one of my characters. May I suggest making the entire chest area invisible for that category and allowing us to use any chest item. I feel it would allow a lot better customization.
But overall, I am very excited for this and cannot wait!
The same thing would happen, players would have to unlock the costume again in order to view it in a new selection menu like eye accessories.
Trying to visualize how the database structure has to be structured that it has a limitation like that but still allows entire categories like different head types to be merged per this proposal... It can't be pretty.
Assuming they were labeled clearly as granting an extended range of potential body location options, I personally would have absolutely no qualms about hunting down various duplicate unlockers to expand the slot possibilities. It would be a good excuse for doing some grinding / auction prowling again...
If that is the case, please consider waiting to change the invisible parts until other invisible options are introduced! And sorry about making suggestions here, I'll go post them in the other thread.
If that is the case, please consider waiting to change the invisible parts until other invisible options are introduced! And sorry about making suggestions here, I'll go post them in the other thread.
The proposed changes are likely to be to extensive to let anything "sit out" the process till later. So it is really a question of whether the gains outweighs the losses. As much as I love invisible parts and similar foolery... and those who know me can attest to how much I really really do... I'm thinking it still sounds worth it.
I'm going to have to buy some character slots to protect some particular looks I normally keep only in loadable files though.
The same thing would happen, players would have to unlock the costume again in order to view it in a new selection menu like eye accessories.
Trying to visualize how the database structure has to be structured that it has a limitation like that but still allows entire categories like different head types to be merged per this proposal... It can't be pretty.
Assuming they were labeled clearly as granting an extended range of potential body location options, I personally would have absolutely no qualms about hunting down various duplicate unlockers to expand the slot possibilities. It would be a good excuse for doing some grinding / auction prowling again...
I'm having issues figuring out how a database could have such a limitation as well...
Any chance you could shed some light on the structure of the tailor's database? Help us better understand what can & can't be done and why it is that way?
I hate the cheerleader mentality. Supporting without critical thought causes me to hate with a deep and abiding passion.
BUT...I can find nothing wrong with this!
Yes, it would be a shame to lose almost all of my saved costumes (many without an attached character atm) but the benefit FAR excedes the loss. I am very, very happy with Kaizerin's work and all the effort they've put into this
jerax1011's idea is a good one, I think, about the week-long suspension of tailor costs. That would prevent a good deal of potential bellyaching.
Another question - I see the hands would be divided into categories of normal hands and monster hands. How would this affect being able to select one monster hand and one normal glove? It sounds like that wouldn't be possible with that sort of structuring.
The rough gist of the proposal sounds pretty good so far. I like the idea of being able to use bracers with long gloves, or belts with hip wear on a skirt. I am tentatively for it.
Most of the other concerns I would have seem to have been brought up by others already.
Also- it's not so much a "category" issue, but I would like to see full basic material options on some of the parts that have only one. Every piece should at least have Cloth/Leather/Metal as an option. Other materials and glows would just be bonus.
Whelp. tailor updates and love is always something i'v waited for, however.... this could potentially ruin entire scores of costumes and iconic characters of mine such as Exitus and Sersay. The reasons have already been mentioned. Happy, but more terrified.
Can you do one simple thing eventually Kaizerin??? Make a duplicate of the "Pigtails Harajuku Long", chop the pigtails off and rename it something else. That hairstyle is great but I hate the pigtails! :P Honestly that should be super easy for you.
Love it, love everything about it, but I have two quick suggestions.
the Collars and Short Hair category should be merged with the other categories by default. e.g, having the Golden age collar with heads and hairs. And how about doing away with all the short/med/long skirt options and having them all together? Or I suppose having all the things you could consider hipswear together under the hipswear category? Something like that.
just curious, what's the timeframe on this going live? Need to know if I need to hurry up and buy something like space scoundrel to do an 'invisible' look before there's no longer a way to do it.
just curious, what's the timeframe on this going live? Need to know if I need to hurry up and buy something like space scoundrel to do an 'invisible' look before there's no longer a way to do it.
I would hope not for awhile, as this is a major overhaul that needs to be carefully looked at. I would love improvements, but something this big needs to be thoroughly examined, hopefully to reduce negative impact, perhaps eliminate it all together if possible.
Be great to have all the costume unlocked in PTS tailor so we can see how this will truly effect our looks. I really want to get on board with this, but I feel like something is gonna mess up some very cool looks.
i look forward to testing this in PTS, hopefully more pieces will be duplicated into other sections.
Im pretty sure this could potentially ruin your favorite Fallen Angel Semyaza, Ratty...
I don't have nor plan to redo any of my costumes, they're all pretty much complete at this point...
...but I don't think that a necessity of having few costumes redone should be considered a valid obstacle for this kind of massive improvement. It's a small price to pay.
Whelp. tailor updates and love is always something i'v waited for, however.... this could potentially ruin entire scores of costumes and iconic characters of mine such as Exitus and Sersay. The reasons have already been mentioned. Happy, but more terrified.
This change will not affect any existing costumes.
This change will not affect any existing costumes.
It can be a little dispiriting if you can never edit a particular costume again without changing its look. I've got characters on another game I never touch because giving them a new hairstyle would force me to use ugly new meshes they switched things over to.
That being said I'm still up for these changes. Enough good to stomach the potential bad.
I still have my first costume I've ever made in the screenshots folder, it's dated 26.11.2009. It's a piece of relic! .. It'll be
gone/useless? ;_;
No costume parts are being removed you would have to potentially recreate some or all of the costume depending on which parts moved or didnt. If you have your old costume files, you can at least open them in notepad to note down which costume parts you used - this information is stored in the header of the costume jpeg.
It may be that one of our resident programming geniuses (genii?) has or could write a little app which takes a costume file and lists out the parts for users to make this easier.
Hips layers from the hips layer category and long gloves should be allowed when you have set your Chest type to the jackets category. The latter is, of course, if long and short gloves don't get merged.
They were not moved, the selection menu was just renamed (For some reason we had two named Hips Layer, very confusing).
I don't have an eta for this, but it would likely be on pts for a while.
Heres a thought, how about shaking it up so much that we can make 4 legged heroes like dogs or cats. That be an option I'd fling my wallet at the screen for.
Four legs can be badass
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They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Heres a thought, how about shaking it up so much that we can make 4 legged heroes like dogs or cats. That be an option I'd fling my wallet at the screen for.
Four legs can be badass
Neph, this isnt the thread for those suggestions, this is directly related to category overhaul not addition of new parts, models, animation etc.
Also, that's not a category overhaul, that's a game engine overhaul. (Didn't someone just finish explaining all this to someone in another thread?)
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They were not moved, the selection menu was just renamed (For some reason we had two named Hips Layer, very confusing).
I don't have an eta for this, but it would likely be on pts for a while.
Those two hips categories didn't share the same pieces. The pieces that were in the removed category are now unavailable for tights and skin. I know that there were at least two hips pieces that were meant to be used in combination, from the Magical Girl Set. I think the same piece that is currently missing is still available in "tails," but that also means that tails can't be used with the full skirt. It might make more sense to have a second version of the skirt with the tail part built in, rather than reopen the second hips category.
Comments
I keep forgeting the Face Mask and Armor category exists
SUGGESTION: DO NOT put the mask in the same category with hats and helmets, Create a MASK Category for them and add already existing mask in this category (but don't remove them from their original categories, just duplicate them)
People want to combine Masks with Helmets and Hats, most significant example the Plague Mask, you cannot make a Plague Dotor because the piece is in the Head Wear and it blocks the Hats (except if you use Simian Head)
I hope you don't mean you will merge the Collars with the Neck Accesories, that would defend the whole point
Will the Costume Loading still work? I have saved all my characters' costumes and screenshot their body scaling for any case
Yeah, removing the tailor fee for a limited time when this change hit live would a good idea
But yeah a MASK Category would be neat
Maybe someone wants to use the Gas Mask while wearing a Top Hat
or use the Haloween Masks along with funny helmets
please consider this Kaiserin
That would be amazing. I have many, many toons where I had to decide between one or the other, when I really wanted both.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Looks good. 100% support this.
One minor request: allow un-capped options under "partial" upper and lower body categories. While the capped version is usually going to be what is desired, certain chest armor pieces (ancient armor, for example) work very well with an un-capped look, making a sort of a hollow golem type character.
...But even if that request doesn't come through for whatever reason, still support this.
Yeah, it'll default large sections of my stored costumes. Don't care. Worth it! (And as someone else pointed out, one of the big things stored costumes are important for - getting slider settings to match up - shouldn't be affected.)
However, you may want to have a notice inside the costume editor in the week leading up to the roll-out and a month behind it. I'd really not like to see "Whut happened to my costume?!" in zone a billion times. ;3
You will only need a costume change token if you change an old look using the new tailor.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
You can't see it from this angle but you can see right down the open neck hole of this dracolich, as well as through the incomplete sides... That is all just pure fun.
I also want to comment about the importance that as many (if not all) Chest & Arm options should still be present in *all* the upper body options, not just the logical ones. Under the Robotic Both Arms setting for instance, the giant gears and wires of Steampunk Arms look great extending out of the surface of the geometry complete Chest & Arm option Robot Samurai.
For example the Defender 2015 "chest"...
And as long as we're on the topic of dresses - any chance of getting a beast legs variant that has the thinner upper leg sections to let it work with medium dresses?
Collars would not be merged with anything, they would just be moved to the upper region.
Moving unlockable costumes from one selection menu to another (like moving the plated bull mask from mouth accessories to eye accessories) is not something we can currently do. Players would have to unlock the costume again in order to use it in its new location.
I've seen some cool things done with the current limbless pieces, but they were never meant to be used without their respective costumes (jackets, robotic limbs, etc). It's possible that we could introduce other partial chest/legs options that can be seen through.
Yup, "Added" is indeed a keyword
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The same thing would happen, players would have to unlock the costume again in order to view it in a new selection menu like eye accessories.
The current limbless chest and legs options from jackets, robotics, and long skirts would not be available in the partial categories.
But overall, I am very excited for this and cannot wait!
[SIGPIC]http://imgur.com/9gptU4e[/SIGPIC]
Assuming they were labeled clearly as granting an extended range of potential body location options, I personally would have absolutely no qualms about hunting down various duplicate unlockers to expand the slot possibilities. It would be a good excuse for doing some grinding / auction prowling again...
I'm going to have to buy some character slots to protect some particular looks I normally keep only in loadable files though.
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I'm having issues figuring out how a database could have such a limitation as well...
Any chance you could shed some light on the structure of the tailor's database? Help us better understand what can & can't be done and why it is that way?
BUT...I can find nothing wrong with this!
Yes, it would be a shame to lose almost all of my saved costumes (many without an attached character atm) but the benefit FAR excedes the loss. I am very, very happy with Kaizerin's work and all the effort they've put into this
jerax1011's idea is a good one, I think, about the week-long suspension of tailor costs. That would prevent a good deal of potential bellyaching.
Most of the other concerns I would have seem to have been brought up by others already.
Also- it's not so much a "category" issue, but I would like to see full basic material options on some of the parts that have only one. Every piece should at least have Cloth/Leather/Metal as an option. Other materials and glows would just be bonus.
+++ End of Line +++
Happy, but more terrified.
@Sersaywastaken
the Collars and Short Hair category should be merged with the other categories by default. e.g, having the Golden age collar with heads and hairs. And how about doing away with all the short/med/long skirt options and having them all together? Or I suppose having all the things you could consider hipswear together under the hipswear category? Something like that.
@Sersaywastaken
@Sersaywastaken
...but I don't think that a necessity of having few costumes redone should be considered a valid obstacle for this kind of massive improvement. It's a small price to pay.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
That being said I'm still up for these changes. Enough good to stomach the potential bad.
gone/useless? ;_;
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If you never use the costume, then perhaps it is already useless?
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
No costume parts are being removed you would have to potentially recreate some or all of the costume depending on which parts moved or didnt. If you have your old costume files, you can at least open them in notepad to note down which costume parts you used - this information is stored in the header of the costume jpeg.
It may be that one of our resident programming geniuses (genii?) has or could write a little app which takes a costume file and lists out the parts for users to make this easier.
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Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
I don't have an eta for this, but it would likely be on pts for a while.
Four legs can be badass
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Neph, this isnt the thread for those suggestions, this is directly related to category overhaul not addition of new parts, models, animation etc.
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