FC.31.20150919.5/.6 - Bug Fixes

ladygadfly · September 2015

Release Notes for FC.31.20150919.6
This build is available on PTS now, 10/1/2015

- Fixed an issue that caused Onslaught Tights of Freedom to have an extra mod slot.
- Fixed a display issue in the text description of Onslaught gear with mod slots.

Release Notes for FC.31.20150919.5
This build is available on PTS now, 9/29/2015

- Onslaught secondaries mod slots are now limited to rank 1 through rank 5 modifications.
- Decreased power of Hermes Heavy Laser Turrets. Made Hermes Heavy Laser Turrets only attack and attackable by Onslaught Supervillains.
- Fixed an oversized toxic steel costume icon.
- Fixed an issue regarding color channel selection on the Batsaw weapon.
- Removed the undocumented set bonus from Onslaught Gear.

Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens

Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go here: http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/categories/gameplay-bugs1.

These player & moderator maintained threads are checked weekly by the development team:
- http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1203148/onslaught-bugs-and-balance-qol-concerns
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198089/known-power-bugs
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1194284/champions-online-alerts-issues
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1199083/costume-bug-list
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198119/compiled-list-of-bugs-issues-and-qol-concerns-version-2-0

theravenforce · September 2015

ladygadfly said:
Release Notes for FC.31.20150919.5
This build is available on PTS now, 9/29/2015

- Onslaught secondaries mod slots are now limited to rank 1 through rank 5 modifications.
- Decreased power of Hermes Heavy Laser Turrets. Made Hermes Heavy Laser Turrets only attack and attackable by Onslaught Supervillains.

I'm especially fond of the second change.

Are Onslaught Secondaries still limited to "Enhancement" Type Mods? Or can Armoring Mods be used as well?

Also, is there a possibility that Guardian and Villain Tokens could be made Bound to Account & turned into a form of currency on our resources tab and stored in Shared Hideouts?

draogn · September 2015

So another victory for spawn campers. How about fixing it so the turrets will actually act without needing to be attacked first?

championshewolf · September 2015

draogn wrote: »

So another victory for spawn campers. How about fixing it so the turrets will actually act without needing to be attacked first?

Spawn campers? I mean seriously, this argument is really thin.

draogn · September 2015

championshewolf said:

draogn wrote: »

So another victory for spawn campers. How about fixing it so the turrets will actually act without needing to be attacked first?

Spawn campers? I mean seriously, this argument is really thin.

You know the OVs who spend most of their time camping players recovering at spawn points. Yes it still happens.

aiqa · September 2015

I am happy with the gear how it's now, it's still enough of an upgrade to bother spending time to get it. But there are two effects that I think need some more changes.

Suggestion:
- The shield on the tank gear should not be tied to dps. A power that does higher dps is already an advantage over a power doing lower dps, that should not also give you a bigger shield. And it's a bit silly a tanking gear works better for a dps build than for a tank build. Please consider tying the shield to incoming damage.
- The ranged dps gear still needs to inherent the damage type from the attack that procs it.

notyuu · September 2015

Having the tokens made bound to account rather than bound to character would make the grind and less.....insane.

also the defender gloves need a work over, make the shield they grant work based off of the aggro you generate, making it more useful for tanks, and the saviour gloves need the hogwash, nigh useless +energy into the useful +healing around your heal target or something.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

aiqa said:
Suggestion:
- The shield on the tank gear should not be tied to dps. A power that does higher dps is already an advantage over a power doing lower dps, that should not also give you a bigger shield. And it's a bit silly a tanking gear works better for a dps build than for a tank build. Please consider tying the shield to incoming damage.

It doesn't actually work better for dps, because the shielding is post-mitigation. However, I would suggest tying it to power activation time (the same way the damage versions work).

Even rank 5 mods is 55 stat points; it's not really that much different from the r7s people would otherwise use.

aiqa · September 2015

Bug:

When being attacked by more than one Medusa, every Mind Spike stack over 10 refreshes the hold.

pantagruel01 said:
-

Either the shield is a higher number for a dps build and thus works better for this, or you can do a "effective shield"/"effective health" and I am pretty sure that would still turn out better for a dps build.

But power activation time would also work, maybe scaling a bit with charge/maintain times too. Pretty much anything would be better than dps.

championshewolf · September 2015

draogn wrote: »

You know the OVs who spend most of their time camping players recovering at spawn points. Yes it still happens.

You mean the ones that spend a good distance away from the police station in west side, and really don't go after anyone unless attacked or the ones that spend their time outside of the wall fighting the multitude of people outside of the prison wall still a good distance away. Or are you still going to claim that nubs are being ganked because they are automatically targetable and attackable by onslaught villains without attacking an OV first, or... perhaps, you are going to tell me that the death debuff people get for recently engaging in a fight is so enticing for a villain to go after because there would be no reward for killing a recently deadified person.

Again, thin ice. Or is the one whole instance that OVs even bother and fights even begin at all the sudden a mass conspiracy of spawn campers, because from where I stand if people don't want to participate that have had it easy in ways that they can get away, and consider you call it spawn camping because villains are waiting but not attacking all the sudden and waiting for others to attack them, which is the most common behavior I see, btw, they are camping? And it's not like swapping instances is a hard thing to do to begin with.

Again, your evidence is very thin.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

aiqa said:
Either the shield is a higher number for a dps build and thus works better for this, or you can do a "effective shield"/"effective health" and I am pretty sure that would still turn out better for a dps build.

My experience is that going from balanced to offensive is a 50-60% dps increase, and going from offensive passive to defensive is a 50-60% increase in toughness, so it works out about even. Which is still probably too good for the dps.

aiqa · September 2015

pantagruel01 said:

aiqa said:
Either the shield is a higher number for a dps build and thus works better for this, or you can do a "effective shield"/"effective health" and I am pretty sure that would still turn out better for a dps build.
My experience is that going from balanced to offensive is a 50-60% dps increase, and going from offensive passive to defensive is a 50-60% increase in toughness, so it works out about even. Which is still probably too good for the dps.

Mhm, my dps builds do closer to twice the damage of my tank builds, and have far less survivability. But it's not only dps build vs tank build, it's also "high dps power" vs "low or medium dps power". A tank using Epidemic does not need a bigger buff than a tank build using Iron Cyclone or even a melee cone attack. Or a tank using Haymaker does not need a bigger buff than one using Annihilate, etc. The perks of having a higher dps power are already covered, that doesn't need any improvement.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

aiqa said:
Mhm, my dps builds do closer to twice the damage of my tank builds, and have far less survivability.

I was comparing to an existing dual-passive build, so it's probably more accurate to call it survivable dps vs semi-tank. But in any case, your comparison of different powers is why I'm in favor of basing everything on attack speed.

eiledon · September 2015

Bug: Ravenswood Costume Set Icon also oversized and breaking AH list etc.
Bug: Hovercars released alongside Ravenswood Lockbox also have oversized icons.
Bug: Scorpion Bikes have oversized icons.

sterga · September 2015

55 > 44
Still better than vigilante. Especially considering some of these secondaries are basically Justice primaries with fewer mod slots.

kamokami · September 2015

ladygadfly said:
Onslaught secondaries mod slots are now limited to rank 1 through rank 5 modifications.

I suppose this was the easiest way to make a change. I hope that the more interesting effects of the secondary offense gloves do not have to be diminished in order to support the functionality of adding mods to secondary items.

I still worry that either this gear will have to be nerfed at some point after it goes live....which will affect everyone who worked on getting it or that all the stat scaling powers and specs will have to be nerfed more drastically than before....which will likely affect almost everyone in general and make things worse for those who do not have this gear.

In either case, we'd find ourselves with only bad choices ahead of us and I just don't want to be in that position.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

55 stat points on the Defense and Utility slots is probably okay; it's good but overwhelmingly good. 55 stat points on the Offense is a bit too good, though -- consider giving the secondary offense items a Core slot instead of an Attribute slot.

christy300 · September 2015

5,000 tokens its a bit to much you should lower to over 3,000 because you earn only 5 villains tokens compare the the guardian tokens also the turrets should be active when someone are in the recovery spawn.

sigmaseven0 · September 2015

It would be nice to know if we could expect some more iteration on the onslaught reward powers at some point.
Please make Gravitic Ripple more like hurricane,epidemic or ego storm.

Does any one consider these powers desirable or worth grinding for or worth respecing into?

crypticbuxom · September 2015

As a 3 month heads up for Christmas of an error that is similar to the Batsaw's fixed problem. Please fix the color channel issues on the Victorian costume set. specifically the dress where one of the color options doesn't even work anymore. The one that is the extra trim color.

-

This change to maximum R5 for slotting into secondaries is actually very okay with me! Just make sure they scale up and down properly according to level, including levels beyond 40, devs.

-

I've done the math and looked at the time invested some more to discover that the cost of the gear is actually quite fine. If you only play once a day and you do the missions, you can get 10500 villain tokens. This does NOT include ANY of the tokens you get for defeating players or the requirement amounts to complete the missions. You can do it in a couple weeks if you do it twice a day on average.

So I think the cost is fine. For gear. The power cost though is a bit silly, but I suppose its a proper long term investment. We just need MORE villain rewards and more importantly, guardian rewards other than access to villain device use.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

Okay, quick comparisons, rating secondary (non-stat) effects in equivalent mods:

Vig Armored Bracers: +6.3 defense is about 0.35 impact R5s
Vig Blostering Bracers (sic): +338 hp is about 0.55 Growth R5s
Onslaught Tights of Fitness: 51 cc resistance is about 1.2 Sentinel R5s
Onslaught Tights of Agility: 76/76 dodge/avoid is about 0.6 Gamber R5 and 0.6 Avoidance Core.
Onslaught Tights of Fitness: 553 hp is about 0.9 Growth R5s, +5 Defense is about 0.3 Impact R5s
Vig Hastening Bracers: Equivalent to 0.55 Growth R5s, 0.55 Impact R5s, 0.55 Gambler's R5s
Vig Efficient Bracers: Equivalent to 0.55 Impact R5s, 1.1 Gambler R5s
Onslaught Mask of Speed: 253 between Cost and CDR is 3x Gambler/Impact R5
Onslaught Mask of Efficiency: 253 between Cost and CDR is 3x Gambler/Impact R5
Onslaught Mask of Efficiency: 102 between Cost and CDR is 1.2 Gambler/Impact R5, 15 energy is 1.2 Growth R5. Note that people basically never use Growth in Utility slots.

One R5 core mod is considered the same as +21 superstat, though this may be an underestimate as people rarely use Growth as an offensive core, but it does give us a baseline for comparison.

The Onslaught defense items are ahead of the Vigilante defense items by about 0.65 core items, so they'd be equal value if they provided 30 attribute points. I would note that Vigilante defense items are generally considered underwhelming.
The Onslaught utility items are ahead of the Vigilante utility items by about 1.35 core items, so they'd be equal value if they provided 16 attribute points.

I'd like to make a radical suggestion, though: the Onslaught Defense and Utility items are *boring*. I'd like to suggest an alternative version: toss all three, and replace with:

Onslaught Tights of Focus: +44 primary superstat, one core slot. This is a straight-up upgrade on vigilante.
Onslaught Tights of (): +16 to all superstats, 1 core slot. This is an extra 4 attribute points, but less focused.
Onslaught Tights of the Generalist: +8 to all stats, 1 core slot. This would be quite unique (it's also 64 attribute points, but guaranteed to have some you don't care much about).
Onslaught Masks: the same, but add 46/46 cost/cdr

christy300 · September 2015

pantagruel01 said:
Okay, quick comparisons, rating secondary (non-stat) effects in equivalent mods:
Vig Armored Bracers: +6.3 defense is about 0.35 impact R5s
Vig Blostering Bracers (sic): +338 hp is about 0.55 Growth R5s
Onslaught Tights of Fitness: 51 cc resistance is about 1.2 Sentinel R5s
Onslaught Tights of Agility: 76/76 dodge/avoid is about 0.6 Gamber R5 and 0.6 Avoidance Core.
Onslaught Tights of Fitness: 553 hp is about 0.9 Growth R5s, +5 Defense is about 0.3 Impact R5s
Vig Hastening Bracers: Equivalent to 0.55 Growth R5s, 0.55 Impact R5s, 0.55 Gambler's R5s
Vig Efficient Bracers: Equivalent to 0.55 Impact R5s, 1.1 Gambler R5s
Onslaught Mask of Speed: 253 between Cost and CDR is 3x Gambler/Impact R5
Onslaught Mask of Efficiency: 253 between Cost and CDR is 3x Gambler/Impact R5
Onslaught Mask of Efficiency: 102 between Cost and CDR is 1.2 Gambler/Impact R5, 15 energy is 1.2 Growth R5. Note that people basically never use Growth in Utility slots.
One R5 core mod is considered the same as +21 superstat, though this may be an underestimate as people rarely use Growth as an offensive core, but it does give us a baseline for comparison.

The Onslaught defense items are ahead of the Vigilante defense items by about 0.65 core items, so they'd be equal value if they provided 30 attribute points. I would note that Vigilante defense items are generally considered underwhelming.
The Onslaught utility items are ahead of the Vigilante utility items by about 1.35 core items, so they'd be equal value if they provided 16 attribute points.

I'd like to make a radical suggestion, though: the Onslaught Defense and Utility items are *boring*. I'd like to suggest an alternative version: toss all three, and replace with:
Onslaught Tights of Focus: +44 primary superstat, one core slot. This is a straight-up upgrade on vigilante.
Onslaught Tights of (): +16 to all superstats, 1 core slot. This is an extra 4 attribute points, but less focused.
Onslaught Tights of the Generalist: +8 to all stats, 1 core slot. This would be quite unique (it's also 64 attribute points, but guaranteed to have some you don't care much about).
Onslaught Masks: the same, but add 46/46 cost/cdr

_________________________________________________
huh nope with enhancement mods is perfect you will have less stats with core so!

jaazaniah1 · September 2015

OV gear that can slot R3 mods of any type. OV gear is not significantly harder to come by than VG and should not be much more powerful.

avianos · September 2015

and still no BUFF for Nuclear Shockwave

draogn · September 2015

championshewolf said:

draogn wrote: »

You know the OVs who spend most of their time camping players recovering at spawn points. Yes it still happens.

You mean the ones that spend a good distance away from the police station in west side, and really don't go after anyone unless attacked or the ones that spend their time outside of the wall fighting the multitude of people outside of the prison wall still a good distance away. Or are you still going to claim that nubs are being ganked because they are automatically targetable and attackable by onslaught villains without attacking an OV first, or... perhaps, you are going to tell me that the death debuff people get for recently engaging in a fight is so enticing for a villain to go after because there would be no reward for killing a recently deadified person.

Again, thin ice. Or is the one whole instance that OVs even bother and fights even begin at all the sudden a mass conspiracy of spawn campers, because from where I stand if people don't want to participate that have had it easy in ways that they can get away, and consider you call it spawn camping because villains are waiting but not attacking all the sudden and waiting for others to attack them, which is the most common behavior I see, btw, they are camping? And it's not like swapping instances is a hard thing to do to begin with.

Again, your evidence is very thin.

No I mean the OVs who spend their time targeting players who have just released and are just standing up after being killed. They still exist I've seen them in action, they are usually the ones trying to get other players flagged by stepping into their aoes. There is no conspiracy, campers exist a couple days ago there were two gronds, a medusa, and a gravitar camping lowbies who couldn't change instances because they were in combat as soon as they began to stand up. I can't begin to understand why some find this fun or funny but they do.

Anyway back on topic, any plans to address OVs being able to use devices?

themightyzenith · September 2015

Hello again @ladygladfly. Any news on the missing lockbox bonus stamp for the villain lockbox? Have you guys decided to discontinue this scheme or is it simply an oversight?

roughbearmattach · September 2015

crypticbuxom said:

I've done the math and looked at the time invested some more to discover that the cost of the gear is actually quite fine. If you only play once a day and you do the missions, you can get 10500 villain tokens. This does NOT include ANY of the tokens you get for defeating players or the requirement amounts to complete the missions. You can do it in a couple weeks if you do it twice a day on average.

So I think the cost is fine. For gear. The power cost though is a bit silly, but I suppose its a proper long term investment. We just need MORE villain rewards and more importantly, guardian rewards other than access to villain device use.

If you play once a day, you will take around two weeks for each piece of secondary gear. Pretty good, if you like the content. Tolerable, if you don't. Still, that means you have earn 300 Villain tokens a day; the most reliable method is to just hit the targets around town. I've had plenty of runs when the OV device times out while I am looking for heroes to fight.

Eventually, you can play twice (or more) per day, using guardian tokens and all that. I guess I'm okay with a serious grind being possible to get something you want. Still, you really need a lot of heroes to get 300 Villain tokens. Most of my logins just don't have enough people available.

riverocean · September 2015

My primary issue with OV gear at the moment is purely a cosmetic one. And probably something everyone will laugh at. But I'll say it again. The naming conventions and graphics on the gear, make it look like exactly what it is, nerfed primary gear.

It uses the same naming conventions and graphic style that Justice gear does. Which makes it appear like primary gear that was shoehorned into secondary gear. For consistencies sake, update this gear so that it uses the same conventions we're used to with secondaries (like vigilante). Otherwise, it has the appearance of a shoddy rush job.

And I don't mean that as a jab.. I think when people play the game high-end gear shouldn't look like "oops we made a mistake". It should look like "yup, this was well planned and thought out carefully."

nacito · September 2015

#buffnuclearshockwave

sterga · September 2015

themightyzenith said:
Hello again @ladygladfly. Any news on the missing lockbox bonus stamp for the villain lockbox? Have you guys decided to discontinue this scheme or is it simply an oversight?

Cryptic hasn't released what the new series reward is on the first box in that series ever. They'll have it by the second or third box.

It's not a nerf, it's not even on live yet.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
And people are still whining for it to be lowered further, despite two appeasements of their nonsense.

Because it's still too good. The stuff on Live is underpowered, but adding a full mod slot is way too much.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
They've capped it at R5 now. That'sa workable compromise.

A compromise between "no stat points" and "62 stat points" is "31 stat points", not "55 stat points". Any rank of mod, but halved, would be a workable compromise. R5 max is just a cosmetic tweak.

pantagruel01 · September 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
Let's not forget these were already severely nerfed from Onslaught-level primaries.

Changing primary to secondary is a lateral move, not a nerf.

themightyzenith · September 2015

sterga said:

Cryptic hasn't released what the new series reward is on the first box in that series ever. They'll have it by the second or third box.
It's not a nerf, it's not even on live yet.

Yeah, I didn't ask what the reward will be. I asked @ladygadfly why opening one of the recent lockboxes didn't give me a bonus stamp towards the next reward as it should have done and whether this is because they have discontinued the scheme or if it is simply an oversight.

sterga · September 2015

An imbalanced game removes player choice because one or a hand full of things are clearly the superior choice. This makes the game boring in quick fashion. People don't play boring games for years to come.

Introducing new, clearly superior gear removes choice. Sure, making a few toons lolop is fun, but then what? Doing the same thing to alts is boring. Been there, done that, can we have something different now?

pantagruel01 · September 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
Making the grind not worth it for exciting newness also makes the game boring.

It's not even a grind; there are people who have the ability to get a complete set right now. It's actually faster than Vigilante secondaries, by a significant amount.

pantagruel01 · October 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
I fail to see that as a problem. Its an old gear tier,and still has a higher stat boost, does it not?

Um.... wow, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, do you. Vigilante gear gives +44 to your primary superstat.

pantagruel01 · October 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
Things have to be shiny and appealing for people to want them, like it or not.

And, well, for the kind of person who would have Vigilante gear to start with, it doesn't take a very large buff to be shiny and appealing.

pantagruel01 · October 2015

bluegrassbeast said:
Except this is not a buff at all, with a harder grind.

The existing stats on Live are not a buff, though they have an easier grind. Providing more than about 30 stat points is a buff.

aiqa · October 2015

Just like last thread, these things are all based on either assumptions or numbers that are not posted. Opinions on balance needs actual in game tests to at least support the claims to have any credibility, the stats do not have such a simple and obvious interaction we can make due with only guesstimates. If someone can provide tests that show damage is suddenly hugely increased with 33 more stat points and a few more points in defense/CDR/etc, I'd agree with the gear needing more adjustments.

Here are some tests on a HW tank build.
The first one is on full vigilante gear, the second one changing the defense and utility to onslaught and the 3rd full onslaught with the tank offense (dps offense is easy that would just be a full 10% higher dps). I redid the full onslaught gear tests since I thought it was a bit low the first time.

full Vigilante:

Defense and utility Onslaught:

Full Onslaught:

My conclusion is the increase in stat is noticeable but not a huge problem, and not even remotely close to a balance issue by CO standards.

aiqa · October 2015

Suggestion:
Stop characters lower than level 11 from ever participating in Onslaught, make the villains immune to their attacks and stop them from getting the Battling Supervillains status.
There are unfortunately and unsurprisingly players in CO that think it's funny to harass new players, that don't always know the tricks to avoid them.

mrhinkypunk · October 2015

aiqa said:

My conclusion is the increase in stat is noticeable but not a huge problem, and not even remotely close to a balance issue by CO standards.

Why are you looking at defense for this? The defense is 1% worse sure but you didn't stack any CON with your STR-CON settup, you put in STR as if it were vigi where you get 33 more than you'd usually get with vigilente. I don't really get why you'd be looking at defense in this case? Think that now one can add these to their secondary super stats instead to make CON even more stupid with STR primary then look at the defense difference... <_<

As I said, this makes the problem of single statting things a lot worse especially where you don't even have to get a primary super stat to get the highest boost to it anymore as you can get the highest boost from your secondary gear to any stat you want now. It doesn't add more choice, it makes borked spec's even worse and makes the fact stats were never meant to go this high even more stupid too.

FC.31.20150919.5/.6 - Bug Fixes

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