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Targeting Computer triggers not always

dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
edited March 2015 in Power Discussion
While l tested some of in-game powers, l accidently noticed, that while being in description "increase all ranged technology attacks", TC doesn't amplify with some of them, nor triggers reticle. These powers incluse Boomerang Toss & Strafing Run for instance. Probably these powers were added & inadvertently just weren't include into list of powers TC triggers. Just here also persists copied description for Force Bolts in Boomerang Toss, so probably that's a reason.
As for Strafing Run TC doesn't amplify base damage, while Quarry does it. Note, that TC does amplify damage for certain powers like that like Orbital Cannon. l already sent a ticked with in-game option, although l'm not sure it will work. l know, TC is assumed being not too much powerful slotted, which usually have AT's. But that lMO doesn't mean that it should remain being bugged. Perhaps it'll get a little more usage if it wasn't. Still, when you added an Automation, you added some of new powers in game (like Rocket Punch), which were added to list of TC-triggered powers. Please, couldn't you find a time to make sure that all ranged technology attacks are added here near some of next updates.
Thanks in advance!
Post edited by dakrushmor on

Comments

  • dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Boomerang Toss
    Strafing Run
    Bolas
    Tractor Beam
    Grapple Gun Pull
    Gas Pellets
    Implosion Engine

    Note, that Boomerang Toss doesn't work, while Throwing Blades, which have almost same visuals do. Tractor Beam doesn't work while Concussor Beam do. At last Energy Wave does work with it being placed within closed area caterogy, but still counting as ranged damage.
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Honestly, I've always felt TC needed to be pretty much completely redone. You remember that part in Top Gun where Maverick had to shoot the enemy jet and then get a target lock-on so he could shoot it some more? Yeah....me neither. :cool:
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  • hasukurobihasukurobi Posts: 405 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    dakrushmor wrote: »
    Boomerang Toss
    Strafing Run
    Bolas
    Tractor Beam
    Grapple Gun Pull
    Gas Pellets
    Implosion Engine

    Note, that Boomerang Toss doesn't work, while Throwing Blades, which have almost same visuals do. Tractor Beam doesn't work while Concussor Beam do. At last Energy Wave does work with it being placed within closed area caterogy, but still counting as ranged damage.

    Implosion Engine, Gas Pellets, and Strafing Run are sort of odd cases. They are all damage dealers that sort of deal damage by themselves rather than from you if that makes any sense? Like the gas pellets are on the ground and producing the damage not you so your TC does not really proc because of them.

    Everything else, besides Boomerang Toss which seems to be a bug, is considered to be more of a pull/bind type of move and not really a ranged attack by its nature.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,142 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I've long felt that TC should be a toggle form.

    As a passive, it's only slightly better than when MSA was a passive.


    Maybe even AoAC should be a toggle form, too.
    .

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  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 710 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    On the other hand, not stacking up lock might not matter; I'm having trouble finding the thread, but somebody ran some numbers a while back and found that Targeting Computer is not giving the crit chance bonus it's supposed to...
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    morigosa wrote: »
    On the other hand, not stacking up lock might not matter; I'm having trouble finding the thread, but somebody ran some numbers a while back and found that Targeting Computer is not giving the crit chance bonus it's supposed to...

    Yeah that was me:
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=286471

    I haven't had other players really test TC's LockOn specifically, but (at least for my copy of the game) it ain't working as advertized.

    Anyways, more to the topic- hasukurobi had the right idea w/ why some don't seem to trigger LockOn regardless, as they are separate entities or 'pets'. It sounds like TC has even more bugs than we thought, though.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Yeah that was me:
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=286471

    I haven't had other players really test TC's LockOn specifically, but (at least for my copy of the game) it ain't working as advertized.

    Anyways, more to the topic- hasukurobi had the right idea w/ why some don't seem to trigger LockOn regardless, as they are separate entities or 'pets'. It sounds like TC has even more bugs than we thought, though.

    Any chance you could quickly run that test again, just to make sure it hasn't been stealth fixed? I mean... it very probably wasn't, but you know.... ( ._.) also can you do it with some of the PA toggle attacks?
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Any chance you could quickly run that test again, just to make sure it hasn't been stealth fixed? I mean... it very probably wasn't, but you know.... ( ._.) also can you do it with some of the PA toggle attacks?

    Yea, I can give it another quest test to see if there was a stealth fix or w/e.

    This time I'll prob use Elec Form and the Particle dmg powers in PA as a control groups, since in the past I've tested it vs. Quarry or w/o a passive.


    Edit: I'll just put the results here. Using a partial build on the PH tester toon (Hybrid role):
    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&n=&d=1427OHKTLIG00009100980397039I009F00LB039C0315030000000000000000000000002WAL2MGB42nt

    I avoided Guardian since Find the Mark can be a bit too rng, but exact specs don't really matter here as long as only the passives change.

    Just sat in CoAP and toggled on both Eye and Concussor Beams and let them both run their course each time, and for about 5 mins. Had no energy problems at all.

    Test 1 - w/ R3 TC: 
    TYPE            DURATION  BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE  MAXHIT  HITS  CRIT%  AVGDELAY  RESIST%  
All             05:23     669,001     2,066.09  707.94   1,352   945   35%    0.38      0%       
Concussor Beam  05:22     363,067     1,121.27  806.82   1,352   450   32%    0.73      0%       
Eye Beam        05:22     305,934     944.82    618.05   991     495   37%    0.66      0%

    Test 2 - w/ R3 Elec Form: 
    TYPE            DURATION  BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE  MAXHIT  HITS  CRIT%  AVGDELAY  RESIST%  
All             05:29     702,497     2,131.36  727.22   1,330   966   35%    0.38      0%       
Concussor Beam  05:27     391,108     1,186.61  850.23   1,330   460   36%    0.72      0%       
Eye Beam        05:28     311,389     944.75    615.39   985     506   33%    0.66      0%

    450-500 hits each test per power. 32% vs. 36% crit for Concussor and 37% vs. 33% for Eye. Not an appreciable difference either way. The max hits (crits) also were also not much different between the tests, implying the same crit severity.

    Base crit was ~27.5% (88% severity), adding 3/3 Focused Strikes brings expected crit to ~33-34%, so these results aren't awry, though do support that LockOn is still bugged.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Darn. Well at least this time the average crit % didn't go UP when you unslotted TC ;_;
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    For 500 shots at 33.5% crit probability, standard deviation is about 10.5 shots or 2.1%. 37% would be +3.5% or about a 10% probability, 32% (when lock on should get it to 38.5%) is 6.5% or less than a 1% chance. I suspect the severity buff is also not working.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Darn. Well at least this time the average crit % didn't go UP when you unslotted TC ;_;

    yeah, at least they didn't program it to have the opposite effect- though it would be amusing to take a slotted passive so you could have a harder time.
    For 500 shots at 33.5% crit probability, standard deviation is about 10.5 shots or 2.1%. 37% would be +3.5% or about a 10% probability, 32% (when lock on should get it to 38.5%) is 6.5% or less than a 1% chance. I suspect the severity buff is also not working.
    Yea if the SD interval is only about 2% here, then a 3x SD interval would be a very large outlier if the diff wasn't due to random chance. I'm not much of a stats guy, but I assume that means a p value of 0.1 and 0.01? Even for just one 5 min test each, that's pretty small.


    edit: oh and R3 TC is supposed to be a +10% crit chance, so I'd actually expect a ~43.5% avg crit rate for the R3 TC test (which is waaay off).
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  • dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    l just discovered that very recently - & after testing l came to next conclusion:
    After lock on is set up to target, subsequent shots refresh timer only for visible debuff icon & anim, while timer of its actual benefits runs out after 15 seconds (stopping increase of crit chance, crit sev & damage resistance). Moreover, visible "lock on" effect prevents Targeting Computer from being recasted, making only way to refresh these benefits wait 15 seconds until visible effect is faded, then shoot at enemy & it'll recast after 3 seconds.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Via my reply in the thread on the bug forums-

    I can help ya w/ this if ya want, but it may be good to provide some parsed data for this finding. Could be tough for the crit portions cause its more rng-based, though. Good find, regardless.
    Post edited by flowcyto on
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  • cynicoolcynicool Posts: 160 Arc User
    I use targeting computer about as many times as I use Mini Mines... Fix it, por favor.​​
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    I can help ya w/ this if ya want, but it may be good to provide some parsed data for this finding. Could be tough for the crit portions cause its more rng-based, though.
    If it works with plasma beam at all, 10 shots per second should give you a large enough sample set without too much work.
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  • crypticarkaynecrypticarkayne Posts: 182 Cryptic Developer
    Hrm, good to note. Thanks for the callout.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    Well if you are taking notes.

    Targeting computer ruins this game, giving every mob you are fighting a cheap and ugly 2D sprite graphic, when all the other powers have lovely 3D awesomeness going on.

    Put the target on the ground like sigils and every other MMO/RTS/TBS game.
    Just make it invisible, Extremely transparent.

    Go fight five different mob types with targeting computer and take screenshots, you'll see it trashes the scene.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Quick & rough parsing data before I rest, using Plasma Beam as suggested.

    lvl 40 Hybrid, 2.2% base crit and 50% severity, R3 TC and R3 Plasma Beam used. INT/End/Rec SS setup; no specs. OD and CoAP used so energy wasn't an issue.

    Test 1: Just channeling plasma beam for a bit: 
    TYPE         DURATION  CRIT%  DAMAGE  ENCDPS  AVERAGE  MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  RESIST%  
All          01:24     5%     57,730  680.78  77.49    68      136     745   16%      
Plasma Beam  01:24     5%     57,730  680.78  77.49    68      136     745   16%
    Slightly higher crit rate here (5%) is prob due to the 15sec window being more prominent in a 84 sec parse.

    Test 2: tap Plasma Beam to trigger TC debuff, end build for a few sec (using Eld Bolts, a non-Ranged Tech power), channel PB x2.5 (<15 sec), end build until TC debuff drops, repeat: 
    TYPE            DURATION  CRIT%  DAMAGE  ENCDPS  AVERAGE  MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  RESIST%  
All             02:04     14%    47,241  379.14  74.99    28      137     630   16%      
Plasma Beam     02:02     16%    43,547  349.49  83.42    68      137     522   16%      
Eldritch Bolts  02:04     4%     3,694   29.65   34.20    28      69      108   16%
    Just looking at the result for PB, this supports that the debuff is not properly refreshing the crit benefits (~16% overall crit when used in the 15 sec window), at least as far as crit rate is concerned. The few crits I got outside of the 15 sec window on Test #1 were also a lower amount than those inside (102-118 vs. 118-136 ranges, approx), so the same prob also holds true for the severity bonus.
    Post edited by flowcyto on
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  • jheinigjheinig Posts: 324 Cryptic Developer
    I'm submitting a patch that, if it passes QA, should add Targeting Computer's damage bonus to Boomerang Toss, Bolas, Tractor Beam, and Grapple Gun Pull. Strafing Run, Gas Pellets, and Implosion Engine work a little differently under the hood and the TC power can't directly modify them without more work.
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    jheinig wrote: »
    I'm submitting a patch that, if it passes QA, should add Targeting Computer's damage bonus to Boomerang Toss, Bolas, Tractor Beam, and Grapple Gun Pull. Strafing Run, Gas Pellets, and Implosion Engine work a little differently under the hood and the TC power can't directly modify them without more work.

    Well thats good and all, but what about the other long standing issues with TC and it's crit buff from Lock-on?
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  • jheinigjheinig Posts: 324 Cryptic Developer
    One step at a time!
  • raighnraighn Posts: 2,339 Arc User
    jheinig wrote: »
    One step at a time!

    Well, atleast we now know ya'll are aware of it... and hopefully it's on the board for things being looked into...
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  • thebuckeyethebuckeye Posts: 814 Arc User
    thebuckeye wrote: »
    I have been running a test with a technology themed character and have made a discovery. Targeting Computer is not treating Power Bolts as a Technology Tree Power despite it being a Power Armor Energy Builder.

    And before you say the Energy Builders do not trigger Targeting Computer, I have to say that is False through my testing, Strafe (Archery) triggers Targeting Computer, Both Sonic Blaster and Particle Rifle (Gadgeteering) trigger Targeting Computer, Both Steady Shot and Gunslinger (Munitions) trigger Targeting Computer and Wrist Bolters (Power Armor) triggers Targeting Computer. However Power Bolts (Power Armor) does not trigger the Lock On effect and is not boosted by it.

    It is easy to replicate these results. Simply take the stated Energy Builders (one of the T1 Power Armor powers to meet the requirement to get Targeting Computer) then go find a target and shoot it with the Energy Builder. The Targeting Reticule indicating the Lock On effect has begun will trigger on all Ranged Technology Energy Builders except Power Bolts.

    Bug Report Ticket # 2,291,366.
    thebuckeye wrote: »
    EDIT: after Testing the following powers also failed to trigger Targeting Computer.

    Boomerang Toss (Gadgeteering Energy Builder)
    Ricochet Throw (When Fully Charged) It applies on a tap however not on a charge.
    Grapple Gun Pull
    Bolas
    Strafing Run (probably due to the power spawning an invisible pet and its the pet actually doing the damage)
    Gas Pellets (Same as with Strafing Run and so am not worried about it.)

    Throwing Blades and Fire All Weapons however did trigger the Targeting Computer...however Throwing Blades began triggering the Lock On sequence before Damage was dealt.
    I'm betting that Boomerang Toss and Power Bolts are still being seen by Targeting Computer as Force Bolts, the power they were modeled after.

    Just my contribution to this. From February last year...including the bug report ticket number when I reported it, if that helps, crypticarkayne and jheinig
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I don't mean this as a derail (more of a quick & related inquiry), but on the topic of TC: is it possible for the devs to consider adding the few melee powers in Technology to its benefit?
    Post edited by flowcyto on
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  • dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    jheinig wrote: »
    I'm submitting a patch that, if it passes QA, should add Targeting Computer's damage bonus to Boomerang Toss, Bolas, Tractor Beam, and Grapple Gun Pull. Strafing Run, Gas Pellets, and Implosion Engine work a little differently under the hood and the TC power can't directly modify them without more work.

    Yes, l guess those three powers spawn invisible player-made entities, which damage enemies, but not players (as it can be seen from Combat Log). & those entities haven't Targeting Computer buff on them, so they couldn't have extra Crit Chance/Crit Sev or setup debuff due that. But lMO still wouldn't be bad if they'll benefit from bonus % of damage (because damage 80% increase for SR is still valuable bonus).

    But fixing a problem of its refreshing is more vital lMO. Without that it's just weaker version of Electric Form (w/out resistance, for particle damage).
    Post edited by dakrushmor on
  • ramthananaxramthananax Posts: 128 Arc User
    I've always thought that Targeting Computer should just increase your crit chance. An advantage would let it increase the crit chance of everyone in your group.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    I don't mean this as a derail (more of a quick & related inquiry), but on the topic of TC: is it possible for the devs to consider adding the few melee powers in Technology to its benefit?

    Honestly - I feel this is on topic. TC really should affect ALL technology powers. We'll see how it pans out. But for now I'm satisfied that it's even being looked at.

    ​​
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  • eiledoneiledon Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    all ranged technology powers - in theory melee powers require no targetting assistance as you are right on top of the foe. frankly how it is currently set up makes sense and the fixes make sense. if they can also apply it to the few ranged tech powers which operate differently as was mentioned above then that would be great​​
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  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    In a world of super fast people, even melee attacks could use some computer-guidance.
  • eiledoneiledon Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    In theory I would prefer a dedicated melee technology passive to cover these powers, which would I think encourage more varied builds than piling all powers to benefit from a single passive.

    It is an overall mistep in the various power trees - each family I feel should have a pure ranged, a pure mele and a mid point mixed passive (which has a tradeoff in that it does half the benefit on ranged/melee as the pure passives do.)    ​​
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