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FC.31.20140919.0 PTS Update

lordgarlordgar Posts: 267 Arc User
edited September 2014 in PTS - The Archive
This build will hit PTS today, 9/20/2014. I do not have exact timing at the moment.



Release Notes for FC.31.20140919.0:


Anniversary Event: Mechanon:

  • Added some Mechanon voice overs.

  • Mega-Destroids, when "Liberated" by Mechanon now gain a stacking Upgraded buff that increases their damage, max & current health, and improves their new Anti-Vehicular Beam.

  • Liberated Mega-Destroids gain an Anti-Vehicular Beam that targets randomly selected players in vehicles.

  • The Floating billboards around Ren Cen now change for the Mechanon attack.

  • The event now drops the correct reward.


GATEWAY Station:

  • Fixed a typo in the Stabilization Belt's description.

  • "Main Screen Turn On" perk was awarding when other people triggered it. Fixed.

  • Dueling is no longer allowed on the station.

  • GATEWAY is now a "small" instance (similar to Club Caprice) in terms of population cap.

  • "Rusty" now has a selection of healing items for sale.


Other:

  • Small static instances (the tutorial, Club Caprice, the Powerhouses, UNTIL HQ, and now GATEWAY station) have had their population caps increased by 10.

  • The door at the end of Cislunar Mechanon now opens to space during the final cutscene (visual only, you cannot pass through).

  • Resolved an issue which was causing FX to drop out when too much activity was occurring on screen.



Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens



Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.

In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.
Post edited by lordgar on
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Comments

  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Those changes look pretty nice.

    Could the teleport in until hq be changed to allow multiple players to use it at the same time.
    It can cause a bit of a queue.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Wow the Space Station is really shaping up nicely!

    Also, I'm not sure if this has been noticed but I encountered two content/power interaction bugs. I mentioned it on the old thread, but I'm sure it got buried.

    Bug #1 Pestilence procs on Fevered Citizens who are near combustion. This makes them attack the player.

    Bug #2: The Heat Pumps cannot be targeted by Power Armor's version of Plasma Beam. So if you are a PA user who has Plasma Beam - it won't damage the Heat Pumps.

    I'm loving all the content updates BTW.. amazing job.
    Questions About AT Play? Visit Silverwolfx11's Updated AT Guides!
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    riverocean wrote: »
    Bug #1 Pestilence procs on Fevered Citizens who are near combustion. This makes them attack the player.
    This is Working As Intended(tm). According to Silverback's description of the disorder, terminal-stage patients can become disoriented and violent, attacking at random.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • toooldforthistoooldforthis Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »

    [*]Mega-Destroids, when "Liberated" by Mechanon

    If players have some effect on whether or not Mechanon can liberate Mega-Ds, this update makes sense.

    As in, there could be a displayed timer based on how long he's been up, and how many Mega-Ds he's reprogrammed after a certain amount of time. Or if he's now been programmed to move back and forth to come in range and liberate.

    However, if it occurs as it seemed to on the prior build, the liberation doesn't appear to be affected by player actions and you're losing a good opportunity to provide some interesting twists to the fight.
  • eiledoneiledon Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    If players have some effect on whether or not Mechanon can liberate Mega-Ds, this update makes sense.

    As in, there could be a displayed timer based on how long he's been up, and how many Mega-Ds he's reprogrammed after a certain amount of time. Or if he's now been programmed to move back and forth to come in range and liberate.

    However, if it occurs as it seemed to on the prior build, the liberation doesn't appear to be affected by player actions and you're losing a good opportunity to provide some interesting twists to the fight.

    I agree - there needs to be a mechanism to prevent the Mega-Ds from being liberated, adding a tactical edge to what is like most other events just a DPS race. Targetting vehicles may slow down the race but adds nothing but an additional danger. Danger's need to have a mitigation method.

    Players can block telegraphed incoming attacks. Vehicles can not.

    lordgar wrote: »
    • "Main Screen Turn On" perk was awarding when other people triggered it. Fixed.

    • Dueling is no longer allowed on the station.

    • GATEWAY is now a "small" instance (similar to Club Caprice) in terms of population cap.

    • "Rusty" now has a selection of healing items for sale.


    Other:

    • Small static instances (the tutorial, Club Caprice, the Powerhouses, UNTIL HQ, and now GATEWAY station) have had their population caps increased by 10.

    All good fixes thanks for these. To please the duellers/pvp fans I hope you have added plans to future gateway additions for an Arena/Duelling area (or areas! - I am sure some people would love to have a zero G duelling room for example - maybe use the layout from the Powerhouse Movement Training Room - with all those platforms, rings, crates etc would be an interesting map to duel on I think. )

    With regard to the last item above, just to clarify we will see multiple instances of Gateway?

    Additionally as mentioned by other posters, can we add functionality to the ADIS platforms to not have them locked when in use by another player - can't think of many (if any) other doors or gates between instances which locked to one user at a time. Mission Items, yes, Doors, No.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    This is Working As Intended(tm). According to Silverback's description of the disorder, terminal-stage patients can become disoriented and violent, attacking at random.
    In that case, can we have a perk for killing them? (putting them out of their misery).
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,146 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Couple of questions before testing these changes..(which are good by the way...I'd still rather the fight was more widespread making use of the map...)

    - How high can Upgraded stack? (Is it on a similar mechanic to Enrage on Frosticius? If so then stacking on death of a player could be interesting or irritating dependent on how potent the buff is.)

    - As others have already pointed out, will there be some way for players to stop Mechanon from liberating Mega Ds?

    Suggestion: Have Mechanon focus on "liberating" Mega D's using a clearly visible beam attack (or Aura of Liberation) which players can reduce the potency of his converting influence via attacking him AND the Mega D's. "Mechanical Liberation Beam" or "Aura of Liberation" should have a timer or some sort of indication that targeted Mega Ds have almost been converted. A sustained assault on Mechanon by players should break this effect for the beam idea. If Aura, simply draw Mega D's away from a certain range of Mechanon. However to keep things interesting Mechanon should definitely be able to convert at least two Mega Destroyers, provided they aren't defeated by players. (That last part should only be the case, IMO, if the Upgraded buff isn't hilariously potent, aka strong but not unmanageable.)
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »

    [*]Liberated Mega-Destroids gain an Anti-Vehicular Beam that targets randomly selected players in vehicles.


    Unless the attack one shots and fires every second, it won't inhibit vehicles. Either way it's a poor solution as it's not addressing the actual problem that engrosses any instance where vehicles are permitted. This will be a problem for the Halloween Event and Winter Event too. Plasma Beam needs to be brought in line, the last reduction did nothing.



    eiledon wrote: »
    Players can block telegraphed incoming attacks. Vehicles can not.
    No.

    Advanced Hyperkinetic Dampening System is a vehicle's block equivalent. It is on a short cooldown but provides the same sort of reduction player blocks give.
  • gaarafrednorrispgaarafrednorrisp Posts: 504 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    *sigh*

    Welp. There goes my plan for fighting Caliga in the bar where all can see his humiliating defeat. Grats for making an epic idea (Space as the backdrop would be AWESOME!) impossible now -.-
    AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
  • eiledoneiledon Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Advanced Hyperkinetic Dampening System is a vehicle's block equivalent. It is on a short cooldown but provides the same sort of reduction player blocks give.

    Fine for people with Mark 2 vehicles or more expensive vehicles with plenty of slots. What of those who want to take part in their Mark 1 Jets etc? Plus again it is them promoting a single vehicle build. everyone has plasma beam and dampening shield going forward - no diversity. Problem stays.

    Agree they need to look at perhaps lessening the effect of vehicle weapons / stacking against event bosses/mini bosses. If this can be done without removing the effectiveness of the weapons in a one vs one engagment that would be a great solution.
  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    I'm beginning to think the PTS crowd will not be happy until only the most leet of leet can even meaningfully participate in this event.

    Ah well.


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
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  • aurasonic12aurasonic12 Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Plasma Beam needs to be brought in line, the last reduction did nothing.

    If anything plasma beam breaks after 600 stacks and does no damage and causes little to no damage from other attacks as well you would be thing the mega d will go down faster with 800 stacks on it? well it doesn't and i think there should be a Plasma shear cap kind of like bleeds but its only for everyone.

    Also some mechanon costume pieces materials for example his foot accesories have different patters on them.

    Would be grateful if you guys fixed the materials for the mechanon pieces
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Please "balance" Plasma Beam a 3rd time in order to really show those suckers who spent Q on the Mark 3 version (after the previous "balancing" in March.)

    Then you can offer a Mark 4 version for even more Questionite. It's not like this racket ever gets old.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
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  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Anti-vehicle beam on PTS:

    ecQtuiw.png

    The last entry on that was 42 stacks or so.

    Base damage of beam could be buffed, stacks limited to 5-10.
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Suggestion:

    Just put in a reasonable limit on Plasma Shear debuffs already. Some will whine, but who can seriously expect to be allowed to group stack a debuff to such a ridiculous level? I'd rather see a reasonable limit on stacks placed, that won't effect solo play. In it's current state Plasma Shear can actually break the game. Let's just bite the bullet and limit the stacks to something logical and fair.
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  • eiledoneiledon Posts: 1,287 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    riverocean wrote: »
    Suggestion:

    Just put in a reasonable limit on Plasma Shear debuffs already. Some will whine, but who can seriously expect to be allowed to group stack a debuff to such a ridiculous level? I'd rather see a reasonable limit on stacks placed, that won't effect solo play. In it's current state Plasma Shear can actually break the game. Let's just bite the bullet and limit the stacks to something logical and fair.

    given a standard team is 5 people - would 5 x 25 stacks be fair? a max of 125 plasma shears. i think that seems reasonable maximum and well below the break point people have seem for stacking.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited September 2014
    quasimojo1 wrote: »
    Please "balance" Plasma Beam a 3rd time in order to really show those suckers who spent Q on the Mark 3 version (after the previous "balancing" in March.)

    Then you can offer a Mark 4 version for even more Questionite. It's not like this racket ever gets old.

    But only along with next mark of the Advanced Hyperkinetic Dampening System. To help with Antivehicualr Beam. :wink:

    Predicting the future in CO never was easier. :biggrin:
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    quasimojo1 wrote: »
    Please "balance" Plasma Beam a 3rd time in order to really show those suckers who spent Q on the Mark 3 version (after the previous "balancing" in March.)
    Sure, upgrading to mk3 should provide about as much of a bonus as upgrading to a Vigilante secondary or two... seriously, 295kQ is not that much.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited September 2014
    Jokes aside, any chance we can get this chest model:


    r7vgn5.jpg


    in Mechanon recog store?

    That's the base underlying model for his bots.
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    eiledon wrote: »
    given a standard team is 5 people - would 5 x 25 stacks be fair? a max of 125 plasma shears. i think that seems reasonable maximum and well below the break point people have seem for stacking.

    There seems to be a bit of misinformation about this. Since the March vehicles update, Plasma Shear stacks above 50 have had no effect. They could probably just cap the counter at 50 to fix the overflow bug.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Sure, upgrading to mk3 should provide about as much of a bonus as upgrading to a Vigilante secondary or two... seriously, 295kQ is not that much.

    How many times have the Vigilante secondary bonuses changed since implemented? Let me answer that for you: zero. Vehicles and related mods/weapons, on the other hand, have been a constant cycle of: hype/market/sell, nerf a year+ later, introduce upgraded version to enhance the nerfed version, repeat.

    The cost is inconsequential to me. It's the ethics of the practice that I find rather objectionable.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • soulforgersoulforger Posts: 1,649 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Neither of these bugs were addressed since they were discovered, so reposting them and my suggestions.

    BUG: Mechanon Arms do not have glow and the leather and metal textures are broken.

    Bug: Mechanon Feet Accessory leather and metal textures are broken.


    Suggestion: Add glow to the Junkbot Work Light 4th Color (the color of the light bulbs).

    Suggestion: Have the Junkobot TV 1 and 2 head screens go off the 4th color and also add glow to the 4th color.
  • toooldforthistoooldforthis Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    riverocean wrote: »
    Plasma Shear debuffs

    Mojo addressed the stack damage misconception, but this part is also important.

    Given the nerf completely broke the already jumpy and paper thin functionality of Enemy Hull Scanners, it's almost impossible to consistently isolate vehicle debuffs right now during testing, shear and otherwise. They skew wildly all over the map when you go to the individual attack level, and honestly, I feel a bit bad for Lordgar or whomever gets to troubleshoot this. Given it seems to vary from toon to toon, vehicle to vehicle, and mod to mod with no apparent rhyme or reason, this is going to be a brutal bug to track down.

    It's one reason we absolutely need to have hull scanners fixed - the bug remains on the current PTS build - to see what actual DPS numbers for vehicles are supposed to look like now, since despite a whole bunch of claims to the contrary, nobody really knows.

    I tend to believe that responsible playtesting involves balancing/nerfing/changing powers when you actually know how they operate consistently, but I'm sure others will find urgent reasons to disagree.
    quasimojo1 wrote:
    The cost is inconsequential to me. It's the ethics of the practice that I find rather objectionable.

    Bingo. Add in that many of us who have been most passionate arguing about this aren't even particularly concerned with changes to the platform, but the process has been such that it raises real concerns.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2014
    Bug:? The Destroyer Blast aoe has a target cap, making it fairly moot under live encounters.

    Plasma Beam should be retooled as a power. Slightly up Plasma Beam's damage and remove sheer damage completely. Make Sheer a single stack resistance debuff.

    There is a plethora of evidence proving Plasma Beam is grossly overperforming compared to player powers, even the most overperforming of player powers. I have not seen any evidence proving otherwise.

    MMO's are changing entities. If you want an enjoyable playing field powers need to be retooled and kept in line. This will always be true, nobody gets power balance right the first time and power balance always has to be reviewed as environments change.


    The introduction of the anti vehicle attack is admitting there is a problem with vehicles, address the actual problem please.

    It's difficult to test without a zone full of people or knowing how quickly/how Mega D's can be converted into Liberated versions (I sat through an event and by the end 3/5 were converted). If it takes too much time or if Mechanon needs to be present the anti vehicle power will never see the light of day as Destroids are generally burned down together thanks to Plasma multi target functionality. I also don't know how many targets the anti vehicle power can hit at once.
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  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Bug:? The Destroyer Blast aoe has a target cap, making it fairly moot under live encounters.

    Plasma Beam should be retooled as a power. Slightly up Plasma Beam's damage and remove sheer damage completely. Make Sheer a single stack resistance debuff.

    There is a plethora of evidence proving Plasma Beam is grossly overperforming compared to player powers, even the most overperforming of player powers. I have not seen any evidence proving otherwise.

    MMO's are changing entities. If you want an enjoyable playing field powers need to be retooled and kept in line. This will always be true, nobody gets power balance right the first time and power balance always has to be reviewed as environments change.


    The introduction of the anti vehicle attack is admitting there is a problem with vehicles, address the actual problem please.

    It's difficult to test without a zone full of people or knowing how quickly/how Mega D's can be converted into Liberated versions (I sat through an event and by the end 3/5 were converted). If it takes too much time or if Mechanon needs to be present the anti vehicle power will never see the light of day as Destroids are generally burned down together thanks to Plasma multi target functionality. I also don't know how many targets the anti vehicle power can hit at once.

    I'm not usually one to participate in such discussions, and I know that you're pretty decent about other matters pertaining to the game, so I would suggest simply surveying a random selection of players in zone (a few dozen should be enough) to see if the concerns of the playerbase in general (including everyone from altaholics to people trying to level their first 40) reflects what you posted above. Something like the following:

    1. Did you participate in the mega-d invasion event?
    2. Level of character and number of 40s?
    3. Vehicle or no?
    4. Difficulty?
    5. Do you think plasma beam damage ought to be significantly lowered for the encounter?
    6. Do you think the mega-d AOE ought to hit more players/hit harder than it currently is?
    7. Overall, do you think your character/vehicle is underperforming, or outperforming for the encounter?
  • chimerafreekchimerafreek Posts: 406 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    You know, I think this would be a good opportunity to touch up aspect of the machine to apply frenzy on something other than just "on Kill". It hasn't been out that long and not so many people have access to it yet, so you wouldn't even need to hand out free retcon tokens because you changed a power.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    In any scenario where more than half the players are using the exact same power, there's a problem. 850 stacks of shear is 34 players, and based on how population jumps when people zone for additional mega-Ds, there's 60-70 people in those fights.
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    There is a plethora of evidence proving Plasma Beam is grossly overperforming compared to player powers, even the most overperforming of player powers. I have not seen any evidence proving otherwise.

    I think it's marginally outperforming player powers, in a pretty specialized situation. If the role of vehicles isn't to be useful in the occasional open-world events, then what is it?
    kaizerin wrote: »
    MMO's are changing entities. If you want an enjoyable playing field powers need to be retooled and kept in line. This will always be true, nobody gets power balance right the first time and power balance always has to be reviewed as environments change.

    This generic line of argument completely ignores the way that Plasma Beam and its ilk are made available and marketed to players via micro-transaction. Not to mention the forced obsolescence of older versions of vehicles/weapons as upgraded versions are sold. Player powers being rebalanced has never been an issue for me. But I think it's questionable to be selling non-cosmetic items that significantly effect gameplay in the first place; even more-so if they can't seem to be expected to be reasonably stable in their effects, or at the very least adjusted within a very short period of time of their being pushed into production.

    Let's also not pretend there is some new change in the environment that just recently forced Plasma Beam to perform the way it does.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Interestingly, one could argue (if the too many damage sources bug is not fixed, which it most likely won't) that plasma beam, as it currently is on open world events, is self-limiting. Above 700 stacks of PB almost invariably results in substantially reduced damage; above 900, mega-ds are essentially invulnerable. Don't know how to handwave this into lore (maybe too many PBeams powers mega-d shields, or something), but as things currently are on live, using other vehicle weapons, or characters, probably improves DPS over PBeam spamming. 400-500 (20 PBeam users) is probably the sweet spot, as far as damage is considered.
  • mrhinkypunkmrhinkypunk Posts: 1,569 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    you know, if you team with people who have things like defense and stat buffs you'll have an easier time.

    You know you can multi qoute right? Also if you miss one you can click edit instead of posting loads of times in a row... Just saying. <_<

    Anyway as for the update:
    lordgar wrote: »
    • "Rusty" now has a selection of healing items for sale.

    Is this just the current same healing items just sold at a new merchant or is this a new healing consumable?
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Bug:? The Destroyer Blast aoe has a target cap, making it fairly moot under live encounters.

    Plasma Beam should be retooled as a power. Slightly up Plasma Beam's damage and remove sheer damage completely. Make Sheer a single stack resistance debuff.

    There is a plethora of evidence proving Plasma Beam is grossly overperforming compared to player powers, even the most overperforming of player powers. I have not seen any evidence proving otherwise.

    MMO's are changing entities. If you want an enjoyable playing field powers need to be retooled and kept in line. This will always be true, nobody gets power balance right the first time and power balance always has to be reviewed as environments change.


    The introduction of the anti vehicle attack is admitting there is a problem with vehicles, address the actual problem please.

    It's difficult to test without a zone full of people or knowing how quickly/how Mega D's can be converted into Liberated versions (I sat through an event and by the end 3/5 were converted). If it takes too much time or if Mechanon needs to be present the anti vehicle power will never see the light of day as Destroids are generally burned down together thanks to Plasma multi target functionality. I also don't know how many targets the anti vehicle power can hit at once.
    Yup
    quasimojo wrote:
    I think it's marginally outperforming player powers, in a pretty specialized situation. If the role of vehicles isn't to be useful in the occasional open-world events, then what is it?

    Ok, 2 things here and I appologize if they sound horrid. I'll try to word them as politely as I can.

    1. When comparing player powers vs. vehicles are you comparing vets who actually know how to play this fairly simple game or everyone, which includes the "not so good" players routinely encountered in alerts? I believe this is part of the scenario to be considered. Sure, to alot of people who participate in this forum this stuff is kinda easy in most cases but let's consider there are still a decent amount of people in this game who die to henchmen on a regular basis in normal difficulty missions(because they sometimes rage in zonechat and I sometimes have zonechat turned on...but not that often if I can help it cause...zonechat).

    2. IMO, the role of vehicles is to be somewhere between ATs and Becomes with a high emphasis on look and speed potential(not to mention the ability to have flight on a toon under 35 who did not pick a flight right off the bat). Since you mention the cash alot I also have to mention that I would guess they also want to sell those ATs and FF Slots and not just vehicles. So, for that reason as well as general game mechanics...vehicles should be "an" option and not "the" option.
    Let's also not pretend there is some new change in the environment that just recently forced Plasma Beam to perform the way it does.
    You are correct. This is why I have been mentioning this as far back as the Vehicles 2.0 PTS threads. So much so as to run "stock" vehicles without mods or ranks on ridiculously low level toons and solo all kinds of content which I had no business even bothering with. IMO, this was simply missed then and should be addressed now considering this new content, Bloodmoon 2014, Winter 2014, and so on....it's not like this is going to get better if this one OM has the ability to single out vehicles when, IMO, the simpler solution is to just remove sheer from Champions and allow PB to debuff and hit decently on it's own.
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  • gerberatetragerberatetra Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    gradii wrote: »

    I'd offer to help you out with my support characters, but you and I have some "bad blood" issues to be worked out first. if you remember what I mean.

    Not really.

    I recall you taking a discussion waaaaaaaayyyyy to seriously but I figured that was old news.


    Here we are now going to the West Side
    Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
    Some may come and some may stay
    Watching out for a sunny day
    Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm


    In game as @forgemccain
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,858 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    riverocean wrote: »
    Suggestion:

    Just put in a reasonable limit on Plasma Shear debuffs already. Some will whine, but who can seriously expect to be allowed to group stack a debuff to such a ridiculous level? I'd rather see a reasonable limit on stacks placed, that won't effect solo play. In it's current state Plasma Shear can actually break the game. Let's just bite the bullet and limit the stacks to something logical and fair.
    I was wondering why this wasn't done first, tbh. When solo, PB isn't really all that amazing due to the sheer buildup (even at R3 compared to other weapons- esp for AoE farming). Its def not nearly as crazy when limited to 25 stacks atm.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,210 Cryptic Developer
    edited September 2014
    jimhsua wrote: »
    ...

    What is the average DPS you parse of player output? The mediocre and high end ones? Compare that to output parsed on Vehicles. Take note how many people are using vehicles now, compare that to last year before Plasma Beam's overperformance was common knowledge. Really the fact that there's a party ball going on during the Mega D attack should raise some red flags.

    And take into deep consideration when looking at parses from mega D's at how much damage reduction is happening. Someone doing 1.5k and someone doing 4k may not seem like that big of a jump, but then realizing damage is being practically halved in our current zone event sheds some light on how big of a gap it really is.

    I've linked plenty of parse info, scope it out for yourself. Plasma Beam is the best and easiest dps option. Bar. None. That is not okay.
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    lordgar wrote: »
    This build will hit PTS today, 9/20/2014. I do not have exact timing at the moment.

    [*]Dueling is no longer allowed on the station.

    I foresaw this coming... but perhaps consider an area in the station were dueling could be allowed? Like a carl's gym in space or something...
  • merloidermerloider Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The Mechanon Lore perk, "Mechanon's Greatest Foes" does not exist. Two copies of "Mechanon vs. Destroyer" do. One on Cislunar Mechanon and another in the Waste Extraction mission. Since the one in Cislunar is a Destroid head, I presume that Waste Extraction is the one that needs to be changed.

    Earth powers on Live seem to provoke the Waste Extraction sewer area to lag horribly and take about a minute to recover on what was a high-ish end machine two years ago. (i7-Ivy Bridge, Radeon 6970 2GB) It does not seem to be limited to Earth powers though and may be more a result of the particles it kicks up. This occurred on a full team.
  • kenpojujitsu3kenpojujitsu3 Posts: 1,320 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Really the fact that there's a party ball going on during the Mega D attack should raise some red flags.

    Probably not germane to the discussion but...I'm guilty of this...a lot.
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  • kirsroskirsros Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    When you say small instances, does that also include hideouts?
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    I've linked plenty of parse info, scope it out for yourself. Plasma Beam is the best and easiest dps option. Bar. None. That is not okay.

    All I've seen are some parser screenshots that seem to show that the majority of vehicles in these events are using vehicles. Even if we concede that, I'm not sure it tells us much, since Cryptic has been selling and giving away vehicles for 3 years now, and this is one of the few types of encounters where they are usable. Personally, I've been using primarily vehicles for the open-world events for the past couple of years, not so much because of the damage, but because of the greater mobility.

    Would just the fact that the majority of players in an open world event use vehicles by itself indicate a problem?

    I think a better question, specifically stated is: What does the overall distribution of Plasma Beam damage for this event look like compared to the distribution of non-Plasma Beam damage? Are the means and standard deviations for these distributions outside of some expected threshold?

    I'm not sure I care enough to do this study myself, but just from eye-balling the encounter parses I've seen, the median damage of Plasma Beam vs non-Plasma Beam doesn't seem likely to be very different. The DPS does seem right-skewed with the top performers generally using Plasma Beam in the encounters I've seen. BUT: the top performers are generally using Plasma Beam Mark 3, Mark 2 Vehicles, and cycling in other vehicles weapons like Anti-Aircraft Missiles Mark 2/3 for additional damage boost. MEANING that they have shelled out more than the average player for upgrades, so wouldn't we expect them under this model to get some additional performance in this, the encounter type the vehicles are usable in?
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

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  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    kaizerin wrote: »
    And take into deep consideration when looking at parses from mega D's at how much damage reduction is happening. Someone doing 1.5k and someone doing 4k may not seem like that big of a jump, but then realizing damage is being practically halved in our current zone event sheds some light on how big of a gap it really is.

    Here is a spreadsheet of damage sources vs. Mega D for an encounter I logged last night, sorted by average penetration (i.e. resistance debuff). The vehicle Plasma Beam attacks are highlighted, so you can see how their damage reduction compares to the other attacks.

    (A couple of notes though: the parser isn't currently configured to break out the Mega D's from the other trash NPC's in the encounter, so they're all included in this data set, but their significance is small. Also, I filtered out the attacks that did less than 100 total damage or less than 5 occurrences, as they weren't meaningful.)
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    [QUOTE=quasimojo1;4412201 BUT: the top performers are generally using Plasma Beam Mark 3, Mark 2 Vehicles, and cycling in other vehicles weapons like Anti-Aircraft Missiles Mark 2/3 for additional damage boost. MEANING that they have shelled out more than the average player for upgrades, so wouldn't we expect them under this model to get some additional performance in this, the encounter type the vehicles are usable in?[/QUOTE]

    Also note that this encounter was basically designed for plasma beam, in that a) large, open area, b) two enemies with huge amounts of HP that can be lined up, an occurrence that virtually never occurs in any other vehicle content, and c) high player participation numbers.

    Anyhow, the debate in this thread isn't whether PB is overpowered (it probably is, though the delta between single-target pbeam damage and FF builds is probably 20% or less, based on my parser results), but whether this pattern of nerfing "pay-2-win" powers is the way to go, or is going to continue to alienate players from this game.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    The only way any of my characters can contribute to the Mega-D fights (in any significant degree) is by the use of a vehicle. However, I've never purchased anything for vehicles, so I only have one that even has a Plasma Beam, and that's a Mk I.

    OTOH, while Honey Badger may not care that he dies a lot, the only way that Savage can survive long enough to do any damage at all is by flying his Lemurian Tank; melee attacks against a pair of Mega-Ds plus adds are just a fancy way to commit suicide. And this year, he's been hit by something that kills his Tank outright - one-shot from full health to "you are dead".

    Besides, as has been repeatedly pointed out, placement on the damage list for the open mission is bragging rights only - rewards are randomized, so long as you manage to do so much as a single point of damage. So really, I'm not seeing the problem here.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jimhsua wrote: »
    Anyhow, the debate in this thread isn't whether PB is overpowered (it probably is, though the delta between single-target pbeam damage and FF builds is probably 20% or less, based on my parser results), but whether this pattern of nerfing "pay-2-win" powers is the way to go, or is going to continue to alienate players from this game.

    Or if there should be p2w powers in the first place? Btw I payed 300 euro for my LTS.
    jonsills wrote: »
    Besides, as has been repeatedly pointed out, placement on the damage list for the open mission is bragging rights only - rewards are randomized, so long as you manage to do so much as a single point of damage. So really, I'm not seeing the problem here.

    That goes both ways then?
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    jimhsua wrote: »
    Also note that this encounter was basically designed for plasma beam, in that a) large, open area, b) two enemies with huge amounts of HP that can be lined up, an occurrence that virtually never occurs in any other vehicle content, and c) high player participation numbers.

    Anyhow, the debate in this thread isn't whether PB is overpowered (it probably is, though the delta between single-target pbeam damage and FF builds is probably 20% or less, based on my parser results), but whether this pattern of nerfing "pay-2-win" powers is the way to go, or is going to continue to alienate players from this game.

    Good points, Jim.
    aiqa wrote: »
    Or if there should be p2w powers in the first place? Btw I payed 300 euro for my LTS.

    Yes, if it's not clear, I think there should not be pay-2-win powers. But if there are going to be pay-2-win powers, they should be tested/balanced before being offered (or within a reasonably short timeframe). They should not be continually nerfed, with an upgrade offered for additional cost.

    Respectfully, I think the comparison with LTS has some flaws. When you buy an LTS, you receive a host of benefits including but not limited to access to FF. The nerfing of any particular power does not have a meaningful impact on the overall value of what you purchased. When someone purchases a specific power/weapon like Plasma Beam, they are doing so for a specific effect. A subsequent 20% decrease in that effect reduces the value of what was purchased significantly (in some cases, making it worthless.) Doing this repeatedly will alienate even the best customers. Fortunately, the overall value of a Free Form slot has been pretty stable and we have not seen Free Form Mark 2 offered for additional cost.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    quasimojo1 wrote: »
    Yes, if it's not clear, I think there should not be pay-2-win powers.

    That would mean Premium ATs and FF slots should have a $0 price tag. Vehicles should not be in lockboxes, in the cash shop, or in the Drifter Trash store. Legacy devices should also not be gated behind Drifter Trash. Any mods, buffs, or gear in the Q shop would also be highly questionable since you can buy Questionite with real money. Then we have regular Becomes and Sidekicks which are throwing money at the screen for power. (In theory. The theory being they are buffed to accommodate for the OnAlert effective nerf.)

    Making money in CO revolves heavily around players buying their way into more power and that is not likely to change ever.
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