It underperforms in comparison with overperforming offensive passives, not by being broken on its own. If there were any offensive passives with similar effect for damage resistance, then Defiance/Invuln would be in the same situation.
I believe that numbers for LR will be adjusted after testing. Probably for WoTW as well.
Let's not pretend that people are taking Quarry because it's dodge/avoidance bonus while having any boost to damage. Or "theme". Ok? It's very often as thematic as were Teleiosaurus Pheromones.
People are taking Quarry becase it scales with Int, goes exceptionally well with primary Int, which also can (with right setup) make cooldown on Masterful Dodge very, very short. Plus Audacity self-fuelling buff. It's good at everything, especially for ranged toons.
Also, do you know how good or bad were those LR builds in alerts?
And... I'm sorry, but if one offensive passive is indeed so much better as you are saying, as a defense, then it certainly needs to be rebalanced somehow.
No passive or power should be mandatory and you are talking Quarry as if it was some kind of mandatory power. Well, it kinda is for many people.
And reason why we even have abominations like Gravitar or latest Meda-Destroids, or Forum Malvanum is because it had to be somehow challenging for current state of the game.
Also, I repeat: we don't know final numbers for dodge nerf and for final adjustments for LR/WoTW.
Though I still think that the whole idea is very risky and will kill this game if new gear will be lockboxed.
again this is a SUPERHERO game. I quite like being a high powered hero taking on high powered threats like gravitar and lvl60 mega D. this is why the answer is more cool stuff like that, rather than making us all weaker.
With the current balance, the only way things can prove to be a challenge is with one-hit kills like Gravitar, Mega D or Cybermind's raining. I didn't mind that content and I am glad we got it, but I also know that "avoid or die" gameplay in level-progression-based games is usually the result of damage inflation.
If all this remains untouched, then the only way to keep content balanced for all play styles is to artifically lower the margin for error. And that will remove the satisfaction of making a build that works, since everyone will be contributing equally and dying equally.
This is a very big IMO, but it's one of my main gripes with CO's current state of powers and mechanics. I really think the power level needs to be toned down to actually make things interesting in the future. A prime example of how we get "fake difficult" content was the Forum Malvanum event. It was balanced based on a skewed power level, and then got an arbitrary time limit, because a player wipe would rarely happen and that's the second best failure state you can go to.
And you can make new awesome content by not touching the balance, that's true, and I might enjoy it, but it will stroke my enjoyment for story and maybe farming. The gameplay will be still fundamentally broken.
We're going all over the place my fellow players. If we want to prevent wholesale disaster to key heroic concept we're going to need to rally around one idea. Please give your support to the following:
1) No changes to ANY crit dodge avoid etc curves, and
2) Accept a nerf to HALF value crit dodge avoid gear and cores.
I know number 2 may be difficult to swallow but I don't see a way to get number 1 without it. Please think about how bad a new curve would be vs #2 and I hope u support this.
Let's not pretend that people are taking Quarry because it's dodge/avoidance bonus while having any boost to damage. Or "theme". Ok?
I don't have to pretend. I take Quarry because it fits the theme I'm going for, the same as I do every other passive and power in the game that I choose to use on a given character. If it doesn't fit the theme I don't use it regardless of how "good" it is. I'm not a slave to numbers and I don't feel "forced" to take certain things the way several of my fellow players make it sound when it concerns certain powers, specs, gear, etc.
Edit: Example: Though I could slap some dodge/avoidance gear in his PD slot and use Parry w/ TEM on my main Sho Nuff I don't because his theme is someone who's durable enough to take the hits and headstrong enough to stand in front of those less durable and take the shots full on for them rather than dodge things. Ergo, he has no dodge above what is the default by choice. He shouldn't be dodging jack thematically and I'd drop that base amount to zero if I could.
I don't have to pretend. I take Quarry because it fits the theme I'm going for, the same as I do every other passive and power in the game that I choose to use on a given character. If it doesn't fit the theme I don't use it regardless of how "good" it is. I'm not a slave to numbers and I don't feel "forced" to take certain things the way several of my fellow players make it sound when it concerns certain powers, specs, gear, etc.
You are probably one of the few powergamers (and I do not consider term "powergamer" as an insult) who are making fine builds while still taking theme into account.
But I'm rather sure that we have already enough slaves to numbers to completely throw CO off of game balance and in the end we have power bloat that ends with things like Forum Malvanum or Gravitar.
Recently I started stripping my tank from Quarry and all dodge related things and trying how much defense and damage resistance I can stack on him, mostly for concept. I suppose it will perform well enough.
But I'm rather sure that we have already enough slaves to numbers to completely throw CO off of game balance...
I'd been thinking about this all weekend and came to a conclusion that was different from my initial mindset. Conclusion being...I can't in good conscience disagree with this.
I'd like to think more people don't just go grab whatever the hottest thing is, theme be damned, but I was paying special attention to what people were saying in several channels I'm in as well as the zone chat during the events and alerts because of this thread/PTS patch/Etc..
The amount of times I saw comments like...
1) We have to use X
2) Why wouldn't you use X
3) X is mandatory
4) A build isn't viable without X
5) I have to use X to be competitive
...was significant enough for me to re-evaluate my stance. If a majority are actually all gravitating to the same things then I expect those things to get looked at and/or cut down. Said things were all powers and gear related though, nothing pertaining to a specific mechanic. Granted I don't believe any of the 5 statements to be true from experience but that doesn't mean anything if enough people actually subscribe to these notions. I'm only one person.
If I had to choose as some sort of compromise (referring to Monster's post) I'd be OK with dodge/avoid gear being cut down considerably or being completely removed if I'm honest. To be blunt it is. not. needed. and I'm sticking my fingers in my ears for anyone telling me otherwise. :biggrin: On every character I've leveled since the release of Nemesis gear I've taken them to 40 with Nemesis gear only (meaning no gear based dodge/avoid) and they are just fine in any and everything I throw them into. This is over a dozen characters with a range of offensive, defensive and support passives. For some of them I add the dodge/avoid gear when they get to 40 because it's available and because it fits their theme. While it does cause a considerable increase in survivability at 40, I wouldn't be worried about not having it because I've already seen what can be done without it. That increase in survivability at that point just meant I can play "dumber" and not die, I already had the ability to succeed without it through 40 levels of play.
The ATs without self healing is where it gets a little tricky but it's still completely doable on the ones I've played and/or watched my wife and friends play on. But I'd honestly rather see the AT's be built better within their themes rather than go mucking around with powers and power curves to fix a problem that stems more from gear related power creep IMO than anything else.
We seemed to have veered away from a glaring issue.
A few facts can solve this:
- This change is not imminent neither is it final.
- The values on PTS are broken (with regard to dodge and gear) so cannot be a solid basis for
opinion forming (Yes in previous posts I have formed my opinion of it and I despise this "potential future change" as the OP put it.)
- This idea is akin to the side kicking changes which were suggested by Cryptic but due to negative feedback the idea has either been thrown out or put on hold.
What I would deem to be a "glaring issue" and a change which has been put in the OP as "upcoming" is the issue of the implementation of JUSTICE GEAR.
As someone who has spent RL and stipend money on opening lockboxes and outfitting my entire roster with gear, I do not particularly have a desire to go through this again.
So how about something like this?
1) An idea to implement Justice Gear effectively than simply relying on a select few who will buy keys and providing such gear to a much wider audience (which may increase player retention as they see it is not all about P2W)
[The Spirit of Justice!] - Collectable mod which can be fused with your existing and BOUND Legion/Heroic Gear to turn it into JUSTICE GEAR, complete with your current mods from the previous Gear.
Drops from:
Cosmics, Legendaries and Lairs.
This may in fact revitalize "things to do for level 40's" in CO since new content (IMO) is a "Thing Cryptic would like to do, but is not on the current agenda".
Regarding Dodge Mechanics:
I'd love to see an iteration where the values have been corrected so we can all see where we stand with this change.
I know that with this current version, PFF is not worth touching and will no doubt suffer from any change to dodge, I will have worked on making that passive work for me, for nothing and be reverted back to the days of Pre On Alert Impulse AT. Something which I do not wish on anyone. If they are going to tamper with dodge, should it not just simply be capped at a certain point? Some of the newer post On Alert mobs (like in Harmon Labs) on a non dodge (average 7k HP) hit quite hard if you aren't rolling in a specific role or lack a certain amount of damage resistance.
This sort of nerf shouldn't (IMO) ruin everyone's builds because a few people dodge stack to invincibility. I was of the opinion that dodge would at most be capped at a certain value which can only be exceeded by Masterful Dodge.
Anyway, with regards implementation, my idea above...could I get thoughts on it please?
Perhaps if there is support for it, it is less likely to be shoved into a low drop rate lockbox.
We're going all over the place my fellow players. If we want to prevent wholesale disaster to key heroic concept we're going to need to rally around one idea. Please give your support to the following:
1) No changes to ANY crit dodge avoid etc curves, and
2) Accept a nerf to HALF value crit dodge avoid gear and cores.
I know number 2 may be difficult to swallow but I don't see a way to get number 1 without it. Please think about how bad a new curve would be vs #2 and I hope u support this.
I like some of this, but in reality, we have one power that is out of whack here, and that is Quarry. Drop the avoidance on it so that you end up at roughly 50% with the best gear, and the problem with Quarry goes away. That would be a 250% increase in the damage you end up taking using that particular offensive passive, assuming that most players are able to hit around 80% avoidance given a 100% dodge chance as it stands on Live.
WotW, Night warrior, and LR would still need some tweaking IMO.
Especially LR.
IMO, you should be able to reach 100% dodge using a rank 3 LR much, much more easily. The Elusive Monk should not be necessary, nor should evasive maneuvers.
The elusive monk should be focused around avoidance, allowing that same LR character to go from something around say 80% avoidance to more like 85% (a nice, 25% reduction in incoming damage).
When it comes to evasive maneuvers, you should *never* be forced into another power set to make a power set work properly. How are the AT's to function if you do that?
You are already damage gimped using a defensive passive without making another 10% damage nerf mandatory in order for your tanking to be anything other than hit or miss.
Defiance doesn't 'miss', Regeneration doesn't 'miss' and PFF doesn't 'miss'. You cannot have a defensive passive that is anything other than 100% of the time. Ranking up should be avoidance centered. People that do not have LR should be forced to choose between avoidance or better dodge.
100% dodge should be possible with the right specs, even without a dodge minded passive, by completely dedicating yourself with gear towards that end. That automatically stops the majority of the opportunity to stack defense rating. The trade would be that your avoidance would be stuck at 20%.
Thematically however, dodging should interact with different abilities than say damage resistance or regen. That is how you build 'flavor', and keep everything from feeling the same while maintaining balance.
The game does need a balance pass, but it does not need this type of 'spot treatment'. It needs a full overhaul. Anything else and you are going to either have to live with your broken train wreck of game balance as it is, or watch as a large portion of your paying customers check out other MMO's.
NO. why can't anyone see how theme killing this is??! don't nerf dodge. if you MUST nerf dodge, apply it indirectly through debuffs from mobs, or place a nerf on the very top of the dodge curve so it only affects those who exploit the games mechanics to get ridiculous (above 75-80%) dodge chance.
Kenpo, a whole LOT of players don't even know about those channels. are we really prepared to lose all those players and hurt CO's population even MORE?!
I said directly about only changing or removing the gear but leaving all of the numerous other ways to acquire dodge alone (powers, passives that scale on superstats, specializations, advantages, etc.). I didn't say anything about nerfing dodge and I explained why I know, not think, know that changing the gear doesn't kill any themes that I'm aware of. I don't have more characters than everyone, I don't have more themes than everyone, and I don't have more time playing with the powers than everyone but I have more of all of that put together than most people in game or that post here. I say that not to boast but to say that when I go on record in public to say changing something will be noticeable (as I said about the survivability) but we'll still be able to play fine without it (because I've done it and seen it done by people far less into the game than myself) I mean it wholeheartedly.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a hard cap to dodge chance that can only be overcome when using LR that way LR actually has a niche again. As it stands right now it really doesn't which is why its use has noticeably diminished. I blatantly removed it from every build guide I had posted that was using it for a reason...
I don't post about the game mechanics for my own sake. I'm constantly thinking about the rest of the playerbase above myself so please don't think I'd subscribe to something that's theme breaking or detrimental to the playerbase. I wouldn't do that. I've done too much here and spent too much time specifically to help people bring their themes to life to sit here and post in support of anything that would go against that. Dropping dodge/avoid numbers on gear (or altogether) wouldn't break any themes unless someone has a theme of a character that dodges 100% of the time and is therefore unkillable...and even that can be done without gear as well for the dedicated.
I'd been thinking about this all weekend and came to a conclusion that was different from my initial mindset. Conclusion being...I can't in good conscience disagree with this.
I'd like to think more people don't just go grab whatever the hottest thing is, theme be damned, but I was paying special attention to what people were saying in several channels I'm in as well as the zone chat during the events and alerts because of this thread/PTS patch/Etc..
On every character I've leveled since the release of Nemesis gear I've taken them to 40 with Nemesis gear only (meaning no gear based dodge/avoid) and they are just fine in any and everything I throw them into.
The issue I have with such a change is that these sorts of changes mean that certain builds may simply -not- continue to become viable, limiting some themes in the process.
For example, my crowd controller, has the lowest possible HP for a level 40. 4.4k, the reason she is able to survive, is down to dodge, BCR and locking down foes or debuffing enemies to an extent, sort of like a reactive healing process which is greatly enhanced by dodge mechanics, this means instead of running around maintaining a heal I can actively contribute to a team fight. With this change to a core defense mechanic, should I then expect my crowd control abilities (which already flat out do not work in higher level instances) to suddenly be buffed to work on everything in game? Clearly not.
Another example is my PFFer, that passive is bad. Simple as. It is classed as a defensive passive and I have seen it and played it from 1-40 at it's very worst (Pre On Alert when PFF was the primary layer of absorb, so resistances, dodge, IDF, Protection Field all worked beneath PFF. And yes I was Impulse AT.) that is something I would not wish on anyone to have to experience. Ever. Going LTS (Gold) was probably a high point for my experience with PFF, since I was able to grab dodge/avoid mechanics which made PFF passable as a passive, even though I have to build around it for it to function remotely like a defensive passive rather than a Defend-YOUR-Passive.
Before September 2012, I was a full Silver Player with access to a majority of the AT's bar Fist, Scourge and Void. My Crowd Controller was a Mind AT, so had access to high mitigation via AoRP and enhanced healing from Compassion. She now has neither and relies on dodge/avoid to stay alive, since I am fully spec'd for CC and assisting my allies with my powers, something I cannot do if I am continually looking at the floor.
While it does cause a considerable increase in survivability at 40, I wouldn't be worried about not having it because I've already seen what can be done without it. That increase in survivability at that point just meant I can play "dumber" and not die, I already had the ability to succeed without it through 40 levels of play.
What if your build changes entirely? You now rely on a mechanic so you can survive? Should I be forced out of commission on some of my toons because I choose not to take Quarry/WoTW/Invuln/Defiance/LR? Or because I do not fulfil a role of a healer, tank or DPS?
Having dodge for me on the two characters most affected by this change fits my theme of a force field deflecting damage to stick around longer or wearing a fabric which can absorb and negate some of the incoming damage.
The ATs without self healing is where it gets a little tricky but it's still completely doable on the ones I've played and/or watched my wife and friends play on. But I'd honestly rather see the AT's be built better within their themes rather than go mucking around with powers and power curves to fix a problem that stems more from gear related power creep IMO than anything else.
Personal Force Field was the definition of HELL to level with and it still is in many ways, most of my friends gave up and switched to another AT or took KM and enjoyed the damage increase from 1-39 then realising at lvl 40 they would loose their passive to fuel their "ultimate" power.
If there was a perk for blocking, ForceGirl would have it in so many ways, I think it would break the game.
For some builds, dodge is an added layer of defense which is greatly appreciated. The only toon I have no seen any change in is Black Diamond my invuln toon, but then again, it is INVULN, mobs tend to break their hands on Invuln anyway.
I have NO issue with allowing dodge to be hard capped at 90% only overcome by MD/LR <--that would be absolutely fine.
DR from trying to stack dodge on a dodge passive like LR should perhaps be looked into IMO, 100% dodge is a little silly.
We're going all over the place my fellow players. If we want to prevent wholesale disaster to key heroic concept we're going to need to rally around one idea. Please give your support to the following:
1) No changes to ANY crit dodge avoid etc curves, and
2) Accept a nerf to HALF value crit dodge avoid gear and cores.
I know number 2 may be difficult to swallow but I don't see a way to get number 1 without it. Please think about how bad a new curve would be vs #2 and I hope u support this.
I am not on board with this.
You suggestion doesn't fix the overall problem with how these current values curve.
I like the idea of the changes on PTS. Crit/Dodge has needed tweaking for some time. Dodge being something far too easily stacked across powers and gear, and criticals being the only valid method of damage output.
While the current changes are nowhere near where they should be, the idea of offense finally meaning something should be a delight to player's ears.
I wouldn't get so hung up over passives, it's obvious LR/Quarry are not where they should be, and will most likely get some adjustments.
I'll be direct here. Not being rude, direct. The only thing I mentioned was a compromise in response to a what if question by monster. I mentioned take the gear and leave everything else alone if I had to make a choice.
We get 14 power choices, 36 advantage points, 3 specialization trees with 10 points a piece, a mastery specialization, 6 gear slots, 5 device slots, multiple build slots, multiple roles, etc. If anyone has a build that is make or break based solely on what's in one gear slot above all that other stuff then that is a direct statement that what's in that slot is too darn powerful compared to every other thing the player has access to. Does anyone really want to make that statement while simultaneously advocating that the stuff in that slot be left alone?
I'll be direct here. Not being rude, direct. The only thing I mentioned was a compromise in response to a what if question by monster. I mentioned take the gear and leave everything else alone if I had to make a choice.
We get 14 power choices, 36 advantage points, 3 specialization trees with 10 points a piece, a mastery specialization, 6 gear slots, 5 device slots, multiple build slots, multiple roles, etc. If anyone has a build that is make or break based solely on what's in one gear slot above all that other stuff then that is a direct statement that what's in that slot is too darn powerful compared to every other thing the player has access to. Does anyone really want to make that statement while simultaneously advocating that the stuff in that slot be left alone?
Perhaps, or it could be down to total viability of the build. If I have built around ONE mechanic which, to get the most out of it, I must either solo anything I actually can, or make and break my holds by myself to feel remotely useful in a team instance, devoting all my specs, powers and power points to getting the most out of a mechanic which was crippled significantly by On Alert, relying on a piece of gear which can allow me to work alongside others without needing to rely on others, is that so wrong?
I am not super stacking dodge or breaking anything, I am simply using an alternate form of defense. I don't want to use something like Eruption because it would not make thematic sense to me, I don't use supernatural possession chains or Necrullitic Elixir to fuel my survival, I survive based on my gear and my healing as a by product of the way I have built my toon.
This imbalance is achieved through the Freeform system itself, because you can bring together so many powers (not saying this is a bad thing) and make with them what you will, this is why something like this is possible.
Unless CO's mechanics as a whole was revamped allowing every sort of build could be viable without using dodge as a crutch then I would look to a change to these mechanics.
I feel I should not be penalized because some choose to override the norm and over stack dodge. Yes, dodge needs to be looked at, so until proper numbers (after the fix) I don't really have much to talk about.
I am not on board with this.
You suggestion doesn't fix the overall problem with how these current values curve.
I like the idea of the changes on PTS. Crit/Dodge has needed tweaking for some time. Dodge being something far too easily stacked across powers and gear, and criticals being the only valid method of damage output.
Kaizerin, you've been in this game a lot longer than I. Was there any problem with crit/dodge/avoid curves prior to On Alert? Or the powers?
It's just the gear that makes it too easy. Yes, you can get back some Dodge through specs but in the DEX and CON trees you actually are giving something valuable to attain that.
I still haven't played around with this on Test, so I need to ask: Does this adjustment apply to ALL forms of Dodge, or just Dodge Rating?
Regardless, here's my take on it:
1: Leave Dodge Chance alone.
2: Nerf Dodge Rating, but NOT as much as it currently is.
3: Adjust all dedicated Dodge powers (Especially Lightning Reflexes) to be Dodge Chance.
4: Adjust all secondary Dodge effects (Gear, Offensive Passives, possibly Evasive Maneuvers) to be Dodge Rating.
That way, things that are SUPPOSED to be dodge heavy still can be. Players can still add dodge to not Dodge-centric characters, but not to as ridiculously high levels as they currently can. Very few players that aren't abusing the handful of powers that stack massive Dodge Chance will be majorly impacted, and Lightning Reflexes will see an actual improvement.
_________________________________________________ @flamingbunnyman in game. Formerly @Roderick in City of Heroes.
kaserin and monsterdaddy are both uber builders. they won't be as badly hit by this abomination as the rest of us. some of us dont WANT to have to use evasive manuvers, necrullitic elixir and eruption to survive.
I don't think that is a fair statement. Whilst yes, they are better builders, it doesn't mean they won't be as badly hit, it was a universal thing, didn't just affect some and not others.
And I am pretty sure, as very good builders, they don't -have- to rely on eruption, evasive or Necrullitic to survive.
Try not to "call people out" it gets messy and can spiral out of control.
I would love to see Dodge and Crit mechanics get a hard cap, at the very least. They have come to dominate competitive builds. I am not much into PvP, but when I team on Nem missions, these are nearly the only builds I see.
I would like to see other build types be comparable, such as ones based on Offense, Defense, or Debuffs. I would love CC to be changed so that becomes viable again, too.
I still haven't played around with this on Test, so I need to ask: Does this adjustment apply to ALL forms of Dodge, or just Dodge Rating?
Regardless, here's my take on it:
1: Leave Dodge Chance alone.
2: Nerf Dodge Rating, but NOT as much as it currently is.
3: Adjust all dedicated Dodge powers (Especially Lightning Reflexes) to be Dodge Chance.
4: Adjust all secondary Dodge effects (Gear, Offensive Passives, possibly Evasive Maneuvers) to be Dodge Rating.
That way, things that are SUPPOSED to be dodge heavy still can be. Players can still add dodge to not Dodge-centric characters, but not to as ridiculously high levels as they currently can. Very few players that aren't abusing the handful of powers that stack massive Dodge Chance will be majorly impacted, and Lightning Reflexes will see an actual improvement.
Seems to apply to dodge rating so far, I cannot see any issue with dodge chance.
I agree with points 1 and 3.
Evasive Maneuvers primary objectives are distance and dodge so it would be classed as a dedicated dodge power I think.
My issue is the effect this will have on certain builds, which is yet to be seen as we await a fix.
I would love CC to be changed so that becomes viable again, too.
You have no idea how much I'd love to see this, but I have given up on CC being viable in CO ever again, and even if it does become viable I am sure there would be some undesirable side effect to it. Like a Manipulator Nerf or something....
or it could be down to total viability of the build.
If the total viability of any build ultimately boils down solely to one gear slot when everything else remains the same there's a problem. It's either the build has issues or what was in that slot was far too powerful. Now if you say the build doesn't have issues then you're saying that piece of gear is that powerful and that essential which is a big red flag saying that piece of gear is out of line.
If the total viability of any build ultimately boils down solely to one gear slot when everything else remains the same there's a problem. It's either the build has issues or what was in that slot was far too powerful. Now if you say the build doesn't have issues then you're saying that piece of gear is that powerful and that essential which is a big red flag saying that piece of gear is out of line.
ForceGirl - Issue here is that the passive (Personal Force Field) I have chosen is frankly crap and doesn't deserve the title of a defensive passive. On it's own it has design issues. To make it work and have some semblance of defensive attributes I must stack protections and build around it. There is the problem with the first toon who would be hit.
Mentella - Issue here is that I am capitalizing on a mechanic which has been crippled. I rely on healing and dodge and locking down my foes long enough for me to kill them off and survive. I cannot actively contribute using my main mechanic to higher level encounters and survive well without dodge. Why? Because my main mechanic (Crowd Control) does not work on anything above Super Villain, so in order to combat this, I take to debuffing and slowly killing off my foes using a DoT/Detonation effect, and hoping I dodge significantly in order to prevail. My specs are dedicated to enhancing my CC powers in encounters where they can be used. In teams my holds can be broken very fast so, I must resort to damage over CC since I would be using redundant powers. I also have the lowest possible HP for a level 40, namely 4.4k HP.
The issue I see from both examples I have given is the actual powers/mechanics themselves. Dodge in these two examples is merely a crutch in order to further my theme and viability. Take dodge away and both my theme and viability are reduced so significantly the character is put out of commission OR rendered useless to survive against higher level content.
Then again, this isn't about builds that are in the minority like mine, hardly anyone builds around crippled mechanics or subpar powers, they use better things, which is why dodge mechanics are so good on their builds. This is about trying to get some form of balance and sell JUSTICE Gear to players. Something which everyone seems to have forgotten about.
kaserin and monsterdaddy are both uber builders. they won't be as badly hit by this abomination as the rest of us. some of us dont WANT to have to use evasive manuvers, necrullitic elixir and eruption to survive.
Wait. You HAVE to take EM, NE, AND eruption just to survive? When did this happen? And why am I doing fine without those?
Gradii, this is NOT set in stone. Speaking from pre-On Alert experience, a change like this is not the end of the world. We got by just fine with numbers this low before, and we'll do it again.
Heck, we did fine when we needed Dex and Ego to make a viable crit-monster and needed to sacrifice stats to make dodging without LR viable. I imagine that if the dodge change is about the same level as the crit/avoidance change, we'll just have to make some minor adjustments, at best, and we'll be back to owning face.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[thread=139701]My old, old guide for Ego Blades. Updated for On: Alert.[/thread]
[thread=154211]The Costume Contest Schedule. Stay up-to-date without having to log in![/thread]
Wait. You HAVE to take EM, NE, AND eruption just to survive? When did this happen? And why am I doing fine without those?
lol, ikr xD
I imagine that if the dodge change is about the same level as the crit/avoidance change, we'll just have to make some minor adjustments, at best, and we'll be back to owning face.
With regard to crit chance, I've seen a vast improvement on my DPS with the majority of my toons as crit chance has risen by a large margin on my roster.
Thinking back to PRE-On Alert...I've never tried my current builds in the pre On Alert environment so I cannot be sure that not much will change for me, since I was Silver beforehand.
That being said, I am all for a dodge change, hard cap crit and dodge simple.
BofA apparently deals with this sort of thing all the time. After forwarding the information, and a talk with an actual human being who bothered to research (ON THE PHONE WITH ME ((seriously this was shocking)) ) and who was quickly able to find the Until reports AND the date Legion gear was introduced, coupled with the required requests from PWE for compensation that were met with zip, they are now prepared to initiate a chargeback should you change values to products you sold in an attempt to sell new products.
What surprised me even further was the enthusiasm they showed in regards to pursuing this. After relating to them that I was loathe to have to abandon my hobby of 4 years, they were quite quick to point out that this is why chargebacks exist.
So here is what is going to happen between me and you, Cryptic . You change or modify what you sold to me in good faith, and BofA is going to have my back. You have faceless people on the internet backing you. I have a large institution backing me.
I am quite sure this will be our last interaction Cryptic as you have finally pushed this loyal customer too far. Push these changes sans a transformation token in an attempt to get me to regear and replace what I have stored, and you will deal with my bank. If you think that the inability to play your games after I make this decision is sufficient disincentive, you miscalculated.
Goodbye and good luck. You will definitely need the latter.
How do you "balance" a game where the premise is "Super Hero" and the genre is RPG with the tagline of MMO.
Do you classify the player based on their available powers and stats by putting them into a certain group based on how 'super' they are such as:
∞.[REDACTED]
God's God
God
Twink
OP
Kitty with Halo and Wings
Immortal Kitty-Demon
Cosmics
Retired Cop
Super Villian
Buff Guy
Average Citizen
Villian
Cop
Henchman
Lackey
Npc
Telekinesis
Stationary Tree in a Park
Defender
Then from that list classify how overpowered the player is and place them within their respectable 'weight class' and have pvp be restricted by weightclasses and even have one unrestricted pvp area designed to torture the clueless retired cop who goes up against twenty different op-classed characters and then have everyone instantly die the moment god's god shows up and then the map crashes once [REDACTED] fully loads in.
Or...Or do you just not and hope no one notices/complains?
try not to laugh at me openly for no reason ravenforce. you obviously misunderstand what I said. :rolleyes:
? Did the post you quoted that from have any reference to you? Nope, I didn't mention you at all. Please read in future.
Anyways, I'm going to do what I should have done a while ago...take a step back and watch and wait for a new iteration of these "Potential Future Changes"
going for that world record. :rolleyes: seriously does the fact that I am one of the players who
most knows how BAD this would be bother you?
You certainly are not the only one who is against the extremity that it is at.
What is bothering me and probably many others is the fact you post 3 posts one after each other pretty much spamming the same stuff over and over making it very hard to read other's views instead of just yours. Give some others a chance to have their say.
I just love the fact that I feel less super in a SUPER hero game. Woot.
I know right ^^
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Some may come and some may stay
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And no, Gradii.... content is not the answer to this. Not even close. Stop being so closed minded.
I'm not so sure about that.
I mean I know we have the Uber-leet always complaining that the game is too easy*
But I'm d*** sure these same people were complaining the same d*** thing before On Alert.
On the other hand they did get some content, Gravitar and other things like Drutak/Ironclad tweaked to be more difficult, until of course they figured out how to make that easy.
The Uber-leet will never be happy until this game is too hard for the rest of us to play.
So Yea, I'd rather the Dev team spent time on more stuff for us to do.
Heck if I could go back in time and warn them that all the work on Spec Trees and new gear would just result in another round of 'It too Easy' and ask them to make more content instead.
*for them
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Let's not pretend that people are taking Quarry because it's dodge/avoidance bonus while having any boost to damage. Or "theme". Ok? It's very often as thematic as were Teleiosaurus Pheromones.
People are taking Quarry becase it scales with Int, goes exceptionally well with primary Int, which also can (with right setup) make cooldown on Masterful Dodge very, very short. Plus Audacity self-fuelling buff. It's good at everything, especially for ranged toons.
Hey, I take Quarry for my main for theme.. and because Targeting Computer Sucks.
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Comments
I believe that numbers for LR will be adjusted after testing. Probably for WoTW as well.
People are taking Quarry becase it scales with Int, goes exceptionally well with primary Int, which also can (with right setup) make cooldown on Masterful Dodge very, very short. Plus Audacity self-fuelling buff. It's good at everything, especially for ranged toons.
Also, do you know how good or bad were those LR builds in alerts?
And... I'm sorry, but if one offensive passive is indeed so much better as you are saying, as a defense, then it certainly needs to be rebalanced somehow.
No passive or power should be mandatory and you are talking Quarry as if it was some kind of mandatory power. Well, it kinda is for many people.
And reason why we even have abominations like Gravitar or latest Meda-Destroids, or Forum Malvanum is because it had to be somehow challenging for current state of the game.
Also, I repeat:
we don't know final numbers for dodge nerf and for final adjustments for LR/WoTW.
Though I still think that the whole idea is very risky and will kill this game if new gear will be lockboxed.
With the current balance, the only way things can prove to be a challenge is with one-hit kills like Gravitar, Mega D or Cybermind's raining. I didn't mind that content and I am glad we got it, but I also know that "avoid or die" gameplay in level-progression-based games is usually the result of damage inflation.
If all this remains untouched, then the only way to keep content balanced for all play styles is to artifically lower the margin for error. And that will remove the satisfaction of making a build that works, since everyone will be contributing equally and dying equally.
This is a very big IMO, but it's one of my main gripes with CO's current state of powers and mechanics. I really think the power level needs to be toned down to actually make things interesting in the future. A prime example of how we get "fake difficult" content was the Forum Malvanum event. It was balanced based on a skewed power level, and then got an arbitrary time limit, because a player wipe would rarely happen and that's the second best failure state you can go to.
And you can make new awesome content by not touching the balance, that's true, and I might enjoy it, but it will stroke my enjoyment for story and maybe farming. The gameplay will be still fundamentally broken.
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1) No changes to ANY crit dodge avoid etc curves, and
2) Accept a nerf to HALF value crit dodge avoid gear and cores.
I know number 2 may be difficult to swallow but I don't see a way to get number 1 without it. Please think about how bad a new curve would be vs #2 and I hope u support this.
I don't have to pretend. I take Quarry because it fits the theme I'm going for, the same as I do every other passive and power in the game that I choose to use on a given character. If it doesn't fit the theme I don't use it regardless of how "good" it is. I'm not a slave to numbers and I don't feel "forced" to take certain things the way several of my fellow players make it sound when it concerns certain powers, specs, gear, etc.
Edit: Example: Though I could slap some dodge/avoidance gear in his PD slot and use Parry w/ TEM on my main Sho Nuff I don't because his theme is someone who's durable enough to take the hits and headstrong enough to stand in front of those less durable and take the shots full on for them rather than dodge things. Ergo, he has no dodge above what is the default by choice. He shouldn't be dodging jack thematically and I'd drop that base amount to zero if I could.
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But I'm rather sure that we have already enough slaves to numbers to completely throw CO off of game balance and in the end we have power bloat that ends with things like Forum Malvanum or Gravitar.
Recently I started stripping my tank from Quarry and all dodge related things and trying how much defense and damage resistance I can stack on him, mostly for concept. I suppose it will perform well enough.
I'd been thinking about this all weekend and came to a conclusion that was different from my initial mindset. Conclusion being...I can't in good conscience disagree with this.
I'd like to think more people don't just go grab whatever the hottest thing is, theme be damned, but I was paying special attention to what people were saying in several channels I'm in as well as the zone chat during the events and alerts because of this thread/PTS patch/Etc..
The amount of times I saw comments like...
1) We have to use X
2) Why wouldn't you use X
3) X is mandatory
4) A build isn't viable without X
5) I have to use X to be competitive
...was significant enough for me to re-evaluate my stance. If a majority are actually all gravitating to the same things then I expect those things to get looked at and/or cut down. Said things were all powers and gear related though, nothing pertaining to a specific mechanic. Granted I don't believe any of the 5 statements to be true from experience but that doesn't mean anything if enough people actually subscribe to these notions. I'm only one person.
If I had to choose as some sort of compromise (referring to Monster's post) I'd be OK with dodge/avoid gear being cut down considerably or being completely removed if I'm honest. To be blunt it is. not. needed. and I'm sticking my fingers in my ears for anyone telling me otherwise. :biggrin: On every character I've leveled since the release of Nemesis gear I've taken them to 40 with Nemesis gear only (meaning no gear based dodge/avoid) and they are just fine in any and everything I throw them into. This is over a dozen characters with a range of offensive, defensive and support passives. For some of them I add the dodge/avoid gear when they get to 40 because it's available and because it fits their theme. While it does cause a considerable increase in survivability at 40, I wouldn't be worried about not having it because I've already seen what can be done without it. That increase in survivability at that point just meant I can play "dumber" and not die, I already had the ability to succeed without it through 40 levels of play.
The ATs without self healing is where it gets a little tricky but it's still completely doable on the ones I've played and/or watched my wife and friends play on. But I'd honestly rather see the AT's be built better within their themes rather than go mucking around with powers and power curves to fix a problem that stems more from gear related power creep IMO than anything else.
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A few facts can solve this:
- This change is not imminent neither is it final.
- The values on PTS are broken (with regard to dodge and gear) so cannot be a solid basis for
opinion forming (Yes in previous posts I have formed my opinion of it and I despise this "potential future change" as the OP put it.)
- This idea is akin to the side kicking changes which were suggested by Cryptic but due to negative feedback the idea has either been thrown out or put on hold.
What I would deem to be a "glaring issue" and a change which has been put in the OP as "upcoming" is the issue of the implementation of JUSTICE GEAR.
As someone who has spent RL and stipend money on opening lockboxes and outfitting my entire roster with gear, I do not particularly have a desire to go through this again.
So how about something like this?
1) An idea to implement Justice Gear effectively than simply relying on a select few who will buy keys and providing such gear to a much wider audience (which may increase player retention as they see it is not all about P2W)
[The Spirit of Justice!] - Collectable mod which can be fused with your existing and BOUND Legion/Heroic Gear to turn it into JUSTICE GEAR, complete with your current mods from the previous Gear.
Drops from:
Cosmics, Legendaries and Lairs.
This may in fact revitalize "things to do for level 40's" in CO since new content (IMO) is a "Thing Cryptic would like to do, but is not on the current agenda".
Regarding Dodge Mechanics:
I'd love to see an iteration where the values have been corrected so we can all see where we stand with this change.
I know that with this current version, PFF is not worth touching and will no doubt suffer from any change to dodge, I will have worked on making that passive work for me, for nothing and be reverted back to the days of Pre On Alert Impulse AT. Something which I do not wish on anyone. If they are going to tamper with dodge, should it not just simply be capped at a certain point? Some of the newer post On Alert mobs (like in Harmon Labs) on a non dodge (average 7k HP) hit quite hard if you aren't rolling in a specific role or lack a certain amount of damage resistance.
This sort of nerf shouldn't (IMO) ruin everyone's builds because a few people dodge stack to invincibility. I was of the opinion that dodge would at most be capped at a certain value which can only be exceeded by Masterful Dodge.
Anyway, with regards implementation, my idea above...could I get thoughts on it please?
Perhaps if there is support for it, it is less likely to be shoved into a low drop rate lockbox.
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I like some of this, but in reality, we have one power that is out of whack here, and that is Quarry. Drop the avoidance on it so that you end up at roughly 50% with the best gear, and the problem with Quarry goes away. That would be a 250% increase in the damage you end up taking using that particular offensive passive, assuming that most players are able to hit around 80% avoidance given a 100% dodge chance as it stands on Live.
WotW, Night warrior, and LR would still need some tweaking IMO.
Especially LR.
IMO, you should be able to reach 100% dodge using a rank 3 LR much, much more easily. The Elusive Monk should not be necessary, nor should evasive maneuvers.
The elusive monk should be focused around avoidance, allowing that same LR character to go from something around say 80% avoidance to more like 85% (a nice, 25% reduction in incoming damage).
When it comes to evasive maneuvers, you should *never* be forced into another power set to make a power set work properly. How are the AT's to function if you do that?
You are already damage gimped using a defensive passive without making another 10% damage nerf mandatory in order for your tanking to be anything other than hit or miss.
Defiance doesn't 'miss', Regeneration doesn't 'miss' and PFF doesn't 'miss'. You cannot have a defensive passive that is anything other than 100% of the time. Ranking up should be avoidance centered. People that do not have LR should be forced to choose between avoidance or better dodge.
100% dodge should be possible with the right specs, even without a dodge minded passive, by completely dedicating yourself with gear towards that end. That automatically stops the majority of the opportunity to stack defense rating. The trade would be that your avoidance would be stuck at 20%.
Thematically however, dodging should interact with different abilities than say damage resistance or regen. That is how you build 'flavor', and keep everything from feeling the same while maintaining balance.
The game does need a balance pass, but it does not need this type of 'spot treatment'. It needs a full overhaul. Anything else and you are going to either have to live with your broken train wreck of game balance as it is, or watch as a large portion of your paying customers check out other MMO's.
I said directly about only changing or removing the gear but leaving all of the numerous other ways to acquire dodge alone (powers, passives that scale on superstats, specializations, advantages, etc.). I didn't say anything about nerfing dodge and I explained why I know, not think, know that changing the gear doesn't kill any themes that I'm aware of. I don't have more characters than everyone, I don't have more themes than everyone, and I don't have more time playing with the powers than everyone but I have more of all of that put together than most people in game or that post here. I say that not to boast but to say that when I go on record in public to say changing something will be noticeable (as I said about the survivability) but we'll still be able to play fine without it (because I've done it and seen it done by people far less into the game than myself) I mean it wholeheartedly.
I also wouldn't mind seeing a hard cap to dodge chance that can only be overcome when using LR that way LR actually has a niche again. As it stands right now it really doesn't which is why its use has noticeably diminished. I blatantly removed it from every build guide I had posted that was using it for a reason...
I don't post about the game mechanics for my own sake. I'm constantly thinking about the rest of the playerbase above myself so please don't think I'd subscribe to something that's theme breaking or detrimental to the playerbase. I wouldn't do that. I've done too much here and spent too much time specifically to help people bring their themes to life to sit here and post in support of anything that would go against that. Dropping dodge/avoid numbers on gear (or altogether) wouldn't break any themes unless someone has a theme of a character that dodges 100% of the time and is therefore unkillable...and even that can be done without gear as well for the dedicated.
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The issue I have with such a change is that these sorts of changes mean that certain builds may simply -not- continue to become viable, limiting some themes in the process.
For example, my crowd controller, has the lowest possible HP for a level 40. 4.4k, the reason she is able to survive, is down to dodge, BCR and locking down foes or debuffing enemies to an extent, sort of like a reactive healing process which is greatly enhanced by dodge mechanics, this means instead of running around maintaining a heal I can actively contribute to a team fight. With this change to a core defense mechanic, should I then expect my crowd control abilities (which already flat out do not work in higher level instances) to suddenly be buffed to work on everything in game? Clearly not.
Another example is my PFFer, that passive is bad. Simple as. It is classed as a defensive passive and I have seen it and played it from 1-40 at it's very worst (Pre On Alert when PFF was the primary layer of absorb, so resistances, dodge, IDF, Protection Field all worked beneath PFF. And yes I was Impulse AT.) that is something I would not wish on anyone to have to experience. Ever. Going LTS (Gold) was probably a high point for my experience with PFF, since I was able to grab dodge/avoid mechanics which made PFF passable as a passive, even though I have to build around it for it to function remotely like a defensive passive rather than a Defend-YOUR-Passive.
Before September 2012, I was a full Silver Player with access to a majority of the AT's bar Fist, Scourge and Void. My Crowd Controller was a Mind AT, so had access to high mitigation via AoRP and enhanced healing from Compassion. She now has neither and relies on dodge/avoid to stay alive, since I am fully spec'd for CC and assisting my allies with my powers, something I cannot do if I am continually looking at the floor.
What if your build changes entirely? You now rely on a mechanic so you can survive? Should I be forced out of commission on some of my toons because I choose not to take Quarry/WoTW/Invuln/Defiance/LR? Or because I do not fulfil a role of a healer, tank or DPS?
Having dodge for me on the two characters most affected by this change fits my theme of a force field deflecting damage to stick around longer or wearing a fabric which can absorb and negate some of the incoming damage.
Personal Force Field was the definition of HELL to level with and it still is in many ways, most of my friends gave up and switched to another AT or took KM and enjoyed the damage increase from 1-39 then realising at lvl 40 they would loose their passive to fuel their "ultimate" power.
If there was a perk for blocking, ForceGirl would have it in so many ways, I think it would break the game.
For some builds, dodge is an added layer of defense which is greatly appreciated. The only toon I have no seen any change in is Black Diamond my invuln toon, but then again, it is INVULN, mobs tend to break their hands on Invuln anyway.
I have NO issue with allowing dodge to be hard capped at 90% only overcome by MD/LR <--that would be absolutely fine.
DR from trying to stack dodge on a dodge passive like LR should perhaps be looked into IMO, 100% dodge is a little silly.
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I am not on board with this.
You suggestion doesn't fix the overall problem with how these current values curve.
I like the idea of the changes on PTS. Crit/Dodge has needed tweaking for some time. Dodge being something far too easily stacked across powers and gear, and criticals being the only valid method of damage output.
While the current changes are nowhere near where they should be, the idea of offense finally meaning something should be a delight to player's ears.
I wouldn't get so hung up over passives, it's obvious LR/Quarry are not where they should be, and will most likely get some adjustments.
Gradii, for example, search shows you have close to 100 posts in this thread, many of which are a single sentence:
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/search.php?searchid=32862671&pp=25
I know you're excited about the impact of these changes, but perhaps a small dose of Simmer Down, Beavis might be in order?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I'll be direct here. Not being rude, direct. The only thing I mentioned was a compromise in response to a what if question by monster. I mentioned take the gear and leave everything else alone if I had to make a choice.
We get 14 power choices, 36 advantage points, 3 specialization trees with 10 points a piece, a mastery specialization, 6 gear slots, 5 device slots, multiple build slots, multiple roles, etc. If anyone has a build that is make or break based solely on what's in one gear slot above all that other stuff then that is a direct statement that what's in that slot is too darn powerful compared to every other thing the player has access to. Does anyone really want to make that statement while simultaneously advocating that the stuff in that slot be left alone?
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Perhaps, or it could be down to total viability of the build. If I have built around ONE mechanic which, to get the most out of it, I must either solo anything I actually can, or make and break my holds by myself to feel remotely useful in a team instance, devoting all my specs, powers and power points to getting the most out of a mechanic which was crippled significantly by On Alert, relying on a piece of gear which can allow me to work alongside others without needing to rely on others, is that so wrong?
I am not super stacking dodge or breaking anything, I am simply using an alternate form of defense. I don't want to use something like Eruption because it would not make thematic sense to me, I don't use supernatural possession chains or Necrullitic Elixir to fuel my survival, I survive based on my gear and my healing as a by product of the way I have built my toon.
This imbalance is achieved through the Freeform system itself, because you can bring together so many powers (not saying this is a bad thing) and make with them what you will, this is why something like this is possible.
Unless CO's mechanics as a whole was revamped allowing every sort of build could be viable without using dodge as a crutch then I would look to a change to these mechanics.
I feel I should not be penalized because some choose to override the norm and over stack dodge. Yes, dodge needs to be looked at, so until proper numbers (after the fix) I don't really have much to talk about.
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Kaizerin, you've been in this game a lot longer than I. Was there any problem with crit/dodge/avoid curves prior to On Alert? Or the powers?
It's just the gear that makes it too easy. Yes, you can get back some Dodge through specs but in the DEX and CON trees you actually are giving something valuable to attain that.
Regardless, here's my take on it:
1: Leave Dodge Chance alone.
2: Nerf Dodge Rating, but NOT as much as it currently is.
3: Adjust all dedicated Dodge powers (Especially Lightning Reflexes) to be Dodge Chance.
4: Adjust all secondary Dodge effects (Gear, Offensive Passives, possibly Evasive Maneuvers) to be Dodge Rating.
That way, things that are SUPPOSED to be dodge heavy still can be. Players can still add dodge to not Dodge-centric characters, but not to as ridiculously high levels as they currently can. Very few players that aren't abusing the handful of powers that stack massive Dodge Chance will be majorly impacted, and Lightning Reflexes will see an actual improvement.
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I don't think that is a fair statement. Whilst yes, they are better builders, it doesn't mean they won't be as badly hit, it was a universal thing, didn't just affect some and not others.
And I am pretty sure, as very good builders, they don't -have- to rely on eruption, evasive or Necrullitic to survive.
Try not to "call people out" it gets messy and can spiral out of control.
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I would like to see other build types be comparable, such as ones based on Offense, Defense, or Debuffs. I would love CC to be changed so that becomes viable again, too.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Seems to apply to dodge rating so far, I cannot see any issue with dodge chance.
I agree with points 1 and 3.
Evasive Maneuvers primary objectives are distance and dodge so it would be classed as a dedicated dodge power I think.
My issue is the effect this will have on certain builds, which is yet to be seen as we await a fix.
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You have no idea how much I'd love to see this, but I have given up on CC being viable in CO ever again, and even if it does become viable I am sure there would be some undesirable side effect to it. Like a Manipulator Nerf or something....
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If the total viability of any build ultimately boils down solely to one gear slot when everything else remains the same there's a problem. It's either the build has issues or what was in that slot was far too powerful. Now if you say the build doesn't have issues then you're saying that piece of gear is that powerful and that essential which is a big red flag saying that piece of gear is out of line.
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Now i know why all my builds suck dust and can't go thru whole game without dying. Ever.
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ForceGirl - Issue here is that the passive (Personal Force Field) I have chosen is frankly crap and doesn't deserve the title of a defensive passive. On it's own it has design issues. To make it work and have some semblance of defensive attributes I must stack protections and build around it. There is the problem with the first toon who would be hit.
Mentella - Issue here is that I am capitalizing on a mechanic which has been crippled. I rely on healing and dodge and locking down my foes long enough for me to kill them off and survive. I cannot actively contribute using my main mechanic to higher level encounters and survive well without dodge. Why? Because my main mechanic (Crowd Control) does not work on anything above Super Villain, so in order to combat this, I take to debuffing and slowly killing off my foes using a DoT/Detonation effect, and hoping I dodge significantly in order to prevail. My specs are dedicated to enhancing my CC powers in encounters where they can be used. In teams my holds can be broken very fast so, I must resort to damage over CC since I would be using redundant powers. I also have the lowest possible HP for a level 40, namely 4.4k HP.
The issue I see from both examples I have given is the actual powers/mechanics themselves. Dodge in these two examples is merely a crutch in order to further my theme and viability. Take dodge away and both my theme and viability are reduced so significantly the character is put out of commission OR rendered useless to survive against higher level content.
Then again, this isn't about builds that are in the minority like mine, hardly anyone builds around crippled mechanics or subpar powers, they use better things, which is why dodge mechanics are so good on their builds. This is about trying to get some form of balance and sell JUSTICE Gear to players. Something which everyone seems to have forgotten about.
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Wait. You HAVE to take EM, NE, AND eruption just to survive? When did this happen? And why am I doing fine without those?
Gradii, this is NOT set in stone. Speaking from pre-On Alert experience, a change like this is not the end of the world. We got by just fine with numbers this low before, and we'll do it again.
Heck, we did fine when we needed Dex and Ego to make a viable crit-monster and needed to sacrifice stats to make dodging without LR viable. I imagine that if the dodge change is about the same level as the crit/avoidance change, we'll just have to make some minor adjustments, at best, and we'll be back to owning face.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[thread=139701]My old, old guide for Ego Blades. Updated for On: Alert.[/thread]
[thread=154211]The Costume Contest Schedule. Stay up-to-date without having to log in![/thread]
lol, ikr xD
With regard to crit chance, I've seen a vast improvement on my DPS with the majority of my toons as crit chance has risen by a large margin on my roster.
Thinking back to PRE-On Alert...I've never tried my current builds in the pre On Alert environment so I cannot be sure that not much will change for me, since I was Silver beforehand.
That being said, I am all for a dodge change, hard cap crit and dodge simple.
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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Ball is now squarely in your court Cryptic.
BofA apparently deals with this sort of thing all the time. After forwarding the information, and a talk with an actual human being who bothered to research (ON THE PHONE WITH ME ((seriously this was shocking)) ) and who was quickly able to find the Until reports AND the date Legion gear was introduced, coupled with the required requests from PWE for compensation that were met with zip, they are now prepared to initiate a chargeback should you change values to products you sold in an attempt to sell new products.
What surprised me even further was the enthusiasm they showed in regards to pursuing this. After relating to them that I was loathe to have to abandon my hobby of 4 years, they were quite quick to point out that this is why chargebacks exist.
So here is what is going to happen between me and you, Cryptic . You change or modify what you sold to me in good faith, and BofA is going to have my back. You have faceless people on the internet backing you. I have a large institution backing me.
I am quite sure this will be our last interaction Cryptic as you have finally pushed this loyal customer too far. Push these changes sans a transformation token in an attempt to get me to regear and replace what I have stored, and you will deal with my bank. If you think that the inability to play your games after I make this decision is sufficient disincentive, you miscalculated.
Goodbye and good luck. You will definitely need the latter.
Do you classify the player based on their available powers and stats by putting them into a certain group based on how 'super' they are such as:
∞.[REDACTED]
Then from that list classify how overpowered the player is and place them within their respectable 'weight class' and have pvp be restricted by weightclasses and even have one unrestricted pvp area designed to torture the clueless retired cop who goes up against twenty different op-classed characters and then have everyone instantly die the moment god's god shows up and then the map crashes once [REDACTED] fully loads in.
Or...Or do you just not and hope no one notices/complains?
Here's looking at you, kid.
? Did the post you quoted that from have any reference to you? Nope, I didn't mention you at all. Please read in future.
Anyways, I'm going to do what I should have done a while ago...take a step back and watch and wait for a new iteration of these "Potential Future Changes"
My Characters on PRIMUS
[#]WeNeedHeroicFashion - <Aura Suggestions> - <CO Wiki (WIP)> - <Crowd Control Discussion> - <Telepathy in Champions Online> - How to review The Force Power Set - Join the Champions Online: On Alert Discord!
I am @RavenForce in game
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You certainly are not the only one who is against the extremity that it is at.
What is bothering me and probably many others is the fact you post 3 posts one after each other pretty much spamming the same stuff over and over making it very hard to read other's views instead of just yours. Give some others a chance to have their say.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
I know right ^^
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
I'm not so sure about that.
I mean I know we have the Uber-leet always complaining that the game is too easy*
But I'm d*** sure these same people were complaining the same d*** thing before On Alert.
On the other hand they did get some content, Gravitar and other things like Drutak/Ironclad tweaked to be more difficult, until of course they figured out how to make that easy.
The Uber-leet will never be happy until this game is too hard for the rest of us to play.
So Yea, I'd rather the Dev team spent time on more stuff for us to do.
Heck if I could go back in time and warn them that all the work on Spec Trees and new gear would just result in another round of 'It too Easy' and ask them to make more content instead.
*for them
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain
Hey, I take Quarry for my main for theme.. and because Targeting Computer Sucks.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
In game as @forgemccain