Having played with TSW a little I really don't see why so many people want to consider the characters superheroes. Metahumans maybe, but superheroes? No, just no. This is starting to sound like people are just making huge leaps in logic to try to sell the idea to another crowd.
Not trying to sell the game to people y saying it's about superheroes at all. As I said in an earlier post and have pointed out twice now, I don't think it is a superhero game. Not really trying to sell the game to anyone either. One person did mention considering playing and I said they should but, I'd say that about any game someone was saying they were considering playing that I've played and enjoyed.
An integral element of being a superhero is being recognized as a such by the people being saved. In the movies, the Men In Black have saved the world many times but they're not superheroes even though they may qualify for the title. You'll never catch one of them calling themselves such either. To them, they're just doing their duty and if you'll take a look at this you'll see what they mean.
EDIT: not sure why it's quoting people I didn't select to quote
Well then, if we're taking the assumption that everyone with supernatural powers are superheroes...
Hooboy.
Harry's borderline superheroic because he's one of a select number of people who can do things far beyond those of mortal men in a relatively real-world setting.
And he rides zombie dinosaurs through downtown Chicago.
Only thing wrong with that picture is that Wolverine is in it. He's not a superhero. He's a pointy emo.
Spider-Man is in the front because he's a tried-and-tested superhero, the very definition of the term. Wolverine is a piece of asscrap and does not deserve a shoe deal AT ALL.
Just because you prefer a darky broody emoey hero because he's all "meh!" and "blah!" and his hair covers one of his eyes does not make that guy a better hero than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is a damn staple of the SuperHero genre, an idol, the damned DEFINITION of a SuperHero.
Don't try to play that down. Spider-Man is one of the most quintessential and most definitive superheroes.
If you're going to argue with the guy that has the most poster-time, you're talking about trendy-**** Wolverine. Not Spider-Man.
On top of that... It would only take three panels for Spider-Man to turn Wolverine into a balloon poodle.
TRUE HERO.
Re
spect
walk
WHAT DID YOU SAY?
Lol .. that and your other long rant really made my day :biggrin:
I wish you made rants like that also before the released the Vehicle Crap, when everybody
was writing how all these so called "Superheroes" are using Vehicles with guns all day instead
of actually using something like lame super-powers.
And yet it's still not a superhero game. It will never be a superhero game.
The only people that have claimed that it is so far have been the people insisting that it isn't. Everyone else has merely claimed that there are superhero elements in it (but that it is primarily Lovecraftian horror) and that character's in the game meet some of the criteria for the title--not that the game itself is a superhero game.
The only people that have claimed that it is so far have been the people insisting that it isn't. Everyone else has merely claimed that there are superhero elements in it (but that it is primarily Lovecraftian horror) and that character's in the game meet some of the criteria for the title--not that the game itself is a superhero game.
Thank you for pointing this out.
Not one person who said the characters could be viewed as superheroes actually said the game was a superhero game.
I kept wondering why people were getting so defensive over this when no one actually claimed it.
The only people that have claimed that it is so far have been the people insisting that it isn't. Everyone else has merely claimed that there are superhero elements in it (but that it is primarily Lovecraftian horror) and that character's in the game meet some of the criteria for the title--not that the game itself is a superhero game.
I've talked at length with a few people who insist it is a superhero game for various reasons. My statement was me mini-venting because one of the points that they brought up was almost exactly what you said about the NPCs calling the character a superhero.
I don't understand why this is even an argument. I don't think it's a superhero game at all. I don't even think most people who play CO regularly are a shared audience with people who play TSW. There are too many differences to make this game a viable alternative to those who have come to enjoy what CO actually manages to provide: Fast paced action-y combat with unmatched character customization. If these are big sellers for you, then TSW is definitely not a "moving on to" game. That being said, if you are looking for a different game, that is *not* a replacement for your chosen superhero game, it has plenty to offer.
What seals it for me is how characters in CO and TSW deals with zombie hoards. Both MMOs have them, you deal with them in pretty much the same way - you just pile in or take them on at range.
Compare and contrast this with the Walking Dead TV or comic series.
OK, so your contention is that the way you fight makes the characters super-humans. The problem with using that as a criteria is TSW is an MMO. In Walking Dead, the protagonists are one-shotting zombies. Being bitten by one is a death sentence. That kind of play is not likely in an MMO. Well, except for the one-shotting enemies thing, CO has that.
_________________________________________________
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T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Only thing wrong with that picture is that Wolverine is in it. He's not a superhero. He's a pointy emo.
Spider-Man is in the front because he's a tried-and-tested superhero, the very definition of the term. Wolverine is a piece of asscrap and does not deserve a shoe deal AT ALL.
Just because you prefer a darky broody emoey hero because he's all "meh!" and "blah!" and his hair covers one of his eyes does not make that guy a better hero than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is a damn staple of the SuperHero genre, an idol, the damned DEFINITION of a SuperHero.
Don't try to play that down. Spider-Man is one of the most quintessential and most definitive superheroes.
If you're going to argue with the guy that has the most poster-time, you're talking about trendy-**** Wolverine. Not Spider-Man.
On top of that... It would only take three panels for Spider-Man to turn Wolverine into a balloon poodle.
TRUE HERO.
Re
spect
walk
WHAT DID YOU SAY?
Oh my gawd! Spider-Man? Quintessential definitive superheroes? He spends half his day debating wether or not he should be doing it. He's a whiney nerd compared to some of the greats like Wolverine. I mean, whats he gonna do to wolverine? Use his spidey powers and climb all over him to death?
Wolverine has power written all over his bones, and he's not a media sellout like spider man. You won't ever see Wolverine befriending a reporter and posing for photoshoots. Spiderman should leave the superhero work to the real heroes before he ends up going emo and cutting himself into another Venom/Carnage wrecking ball.
20 bucks Wolverine can beat spiderman in a fight.....naked
I found this interesting because, to me, there really isn't much difference at all in the actual mechanics of combat in any MMOs.
If you stop and think about it, there are a lot of similarities in the combat of CO and TSW (excluding when you're using travel powers). In both, you're basically trying to balance the costs of some sort of meter and it's recovery against the expenditure of that meter. Both of them very heavily focus on synergies between the various powers you have as well if you want to optimize. Neither of them requires it if you stick to run of the mill content but, to accomplish anything resembling a challenge, it is needed.
The only real difference between combat in CO and TSW, imo, is that CO allows the use of travel powers but, also has powers that root you in place while they're being used.
Maybe it's just the way I play. In Champions, I'm often moving around the place trying to get the right shots in, trying to take out as many dudes as possible in one hit, actively using defenses and trying to dump aggro when things get hairy and offenses when I really need to blow something up, using lunges to get over there quicker, using a travel power when a guy is about to go BOOM, and blocking other schtick attacks. I'm moving around, always, even without a travel power (I run around with characters that use SuperJump, so while I'm on the ground, I basically am not using a travel power). To me there's a lot more active and reactive thinking.
In Secret World, movement is almost nonexistant. A circle pops up on the ground, you hit your dodge key and call it a day. The game is set up in a way that requires more hands than I have to actively be moving and attacking at the same time. The fact that you can move in any direction, and never "lock on" to a target means that I can't use my mouse to move around, get around a corner, because as soon as I do, my character turns around, and my attack which is currently under way is completely nullified. Why can't I just backpedal with my mouse? In what circumstance am I ever going to want to cancel my big attack by moving? I can't picture that scenario. So, I have to use WASD and my mouse to constantly look at my target. When I'm using WASD, I can't hit my number keys to attack very well. I basically have to stop moving most times that I want to hit an attack. BORING.
So TSW combat feels like I'm just pressing the same buttons while getting EATEN IN THE FACE by zombies, because, you know, that's what you do when you have two pistols, you let zombies eat you while you pop them at point blank range. There's nothing exciting, I can't charge up attacks and then watch zombies go boom! I'm just waiting for one animation to finish so I can queue another attack again, all while just standing there being all eaten, and waiting until I get five points so that I can use another attack that's going to be marginally better than the last five I did. So exciting.
Sorry, but just, nope. Secret World's combat is standard MMO fare. It felt no different to me than playing WoW or GW2. Press a button, watch attack happen, wait for cooldown, press another button, wait for 5 points, press another button. Champs just does not feel the same way to me at all, even though you're technically also pressing a button and sometimes waiting for a cooldown. To me it's the difference between writing a letter and drawing a picture. You use the same tools, but it's a completely different experience.
Oh my gawd! Spider-Man? Quintessential definitive superheroes? He spends half his day debating wether or not he should be doing it. He's a whiney nerd compared to some of the greats like Wolverine. I mean, whats he gonna do to wolverine? Use his spidey powers and climb all over him to death?
Wolverine has power written all over his bones, and he's not a media sellout like spider man. You won't ever see Wolverine befriending a reporter and posing for photoshoots. Spiderman should leave the superhero work to the real heroes before he ends up going emo and cutting himself into another Venom/Carnage wrecking ball.
20 bucks Wolverine can beat spiderman in a fight.
Given Wolverine's cop-out healing factor, he's impossible to truly beat. That right there is the definition of a badly created character.
Spider-Man's spider sense would do wonders for him in a fight against Wolverine. Spidey could web wolverine up and knock him silly. Don't forget that Spider-Man has superhuman strength. Wolverine does not (unless they've recently made yet another ridiculous retcon to him). A full-power punch from Spidey could knock Wolverine out. Hard.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that most of what you know about superheroes (you know, superheroes like Harry from Harry and the Hendersons) is from film.
You call Spider-Man a whiny nerd, I call him a character with a personality. What's Wolverine? Metal, hair, and a cigar. Oh and he's angry all the time because... well, kids think it's "cool" or something.
Oh my gawd! Spider-Man? Quintessential definitive superheroes? He spends half his day debating wether or not he should be doing it. He's a whiney nerd compared to some of the greats like Wolverine. I mean, whats he gonna do to wolverine? Use his spidey powers and climb all over him to death?
Secret Wars Saga. Spider-Man single-handedly dusts the entire X-men team at one time including Wolverine. Professor X comments that they are fortunate he was not trying to injure them.
Given Wolverine's cop-out healing factor, he's impossible to truly beat. That right there is the definition of a badly created character.
Spider-Man's spider sense would do wonders for him in a fight against Wolverine. Spidey could web wolverine up and knock him silly. Don't forget that Spider-Man has superhuman strength. Wolverine does not (unless they've recently made yet another ridiculous retcon to him). A full-power punch from Spidey could knock Wolverine out. Hard.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that most of what you know about superheroes (you know, superheroes like Harry from Harry and the Hendersons) is from film.
You call Spider-Man a whiny nerd, I call him a character with a personality. What's Wolverine? Metal, hair, and a cigar. Oh and he's angry all the time because... well, kids think it's "cool" or something.
He just got done fully regenerating after the hulk ate and digested him, he later burst out of the hulks stomach. And has been confirmed at this point to be Immortal.
If we gave both of those hero's powers from champions.
Wolverine would have STR Con Dex super stats
And spidey would have Dex Ego STR
Wolverine would win because "self heals are op".
Shield even gives wolverine a higher rating than Spiderman.
Even though I think wolverine would obliterate spiderman if he'd ever stop running (spiderman again showing his prowess in pvp, always running around shooting webs, even though he's melee, and then gets in to throw a couple cheap shots before running around in circles again, thats all he can do is stun.)
Spawn would still roll both of them up into a ball, Antihero>Gambit>Wolverine>spideyman:rolleyes:
Secret Wars Saga. Spider-Man single-handedly dusts the entire X-men team at one time including Wolverine. Professor X comments that they are fortunate he was not trying to injure them.
Edit: Correction. Wolverine says that himself.
Snap, someone owes me 20 bucks!
I'll take that in small, unmarked bills, please! Or, in Zen. Whatever floats your boat.
He just got done fully regenerating after the hulk ate and digested him, he later burst out of the hulks stomach. And has been confirmed at this point to be Immortal.
A history of terrible writers is not a good argument. :biggrin:
Shield even gives wolverine a higher rating than Spiderman.
Nick Fury is obviously just a fanboy.
Antihero>Gambit>Wolverine>spideyman:rolleyes:
Nah more like Spider-Man > Aunt May > Antihero > < Wolverine.
See that? Antiheroes and Wolverine are both worse than each other. Figure that out.
Gambit is not a superhero, cuz he wears a trenchcoat, throws cards and uses a staff. He's just an out of work stage magician with a gambling problem. /Trollface
Oh my gawd! Spider-Man? Quintessential definitive superheroes? He spends half his day debating wether or not he should be doing it. He's a whiney nerd compared to some of the greats like Wolverine. I mean, whats he gonna do to wolverine? Use his spidey powers and climb all over him to death?
Wolverine has power written all over his bones, and he's not a media sellout like spider man. You won't ever see Wolverine befriending a reporter and posing for photoshoots. Spiderman should leave the superhero work to the real heroes before he ends up going emo and cutting himself into another Venom/Carnage wrecking ball.
20 bucks Wolverine can beat spiderman in a fight.....naked
That's some successful trolling right here.
He's fended off Storm, Rogue, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus and Cyclops practically all at once. He's even punched Wolverine hard enough to send him flying through what were supposed to be unbreakable windows fitted on Stark Tower.
People underestimate Spider-Man because he's constantly holding back to avoid unnecessary collateral damage and injuring innocent bystanders. Y'know, great responsibility and all. His character revolves around trying to do the right thing and keeping himself from crossing the line. Something Wolverine really doesn't care about.
Spider-Man: "With great power comes great responsibility."
Wolverine: "I'm the best there is at what I do.."
There's a dynamic character in that list above, I'll give you three guesses which one it is.
If you define superhumans only by the narrowest of definitions, by the very middle of the mainstream, then of course you won't agree with people who have read and appreciated the wider genre, which includes various cowboy superheroes, wizards and superhero characters like John Constantine.
The reason I linked, and pointed out the trademark thing, is because this isn't about narrowest to widest to whateverest definitions, there are actualy guidelines along which a superhero is measured. Don't try to pull the "widely versed" thing either, there are members of this board who can cite you issue and page number.
Kafkaesque: of, relating to, or suggestive of Franz Kafka or his writings; especially : having a nightmarishly complex, bizarre, or illogical quality
--- Most Hollywood films.
Science fiction: fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component
--- Any theoretical paper or socioeconomic proposal
Sci-fi: of, relating to, or being science fiction <a sci?fi film
--- Farenheit 9/11
Space Opera: a futuristic melodramatic fantasy involving space travelers and extraterrestrial beings
--- Homeboys in Outer Space.
Defining a word is one thing, but trying to break down the conventions of an idea and genre into a single sentence takes away the subtleties that distinguish it.
Thor is not a superhero. He's a fantasy character based on Nordic mythology.
Tony Stark is not a superhero. He's a guy with no super powers in a suit.
Black Widow is a spy--not a superhero (and spies and agent types dress like that when they go out on missions).
The Hulk is a scientist that turns into a huge green monster and wears no spandex or recognizible costumes on either form--not a superhero.
The only guy that barely passes for a superhero is the guy in the middle--because he has (barely) superhuman strength and physical conditioning, and wears spandex (sort of) and a recognizible outfit. But what does he uses to fight? A lame **** shield :rolleyes: --barely a superhero.
/trollface
Despite the trolling, you're kinda proving the point... it's not just about powers, spandex, motivation, or setting, it's a combination of many of those things tying to create a particular world and character.
None of those are Marvel/DC characters. Your argument is invalid. /Trollface
And Dr. Who would have to become a mutant before he can become an X-Men.
"The Doctor." His name is not "Who," it's "The Doctor."
What I think is weird is this is being taken as a pro or against argument of some kind. Personally, I love Hellblazer, I love anime and I consider DBZ to be a seminal work (not because of quality, but cultural impact among other things), Ranma and Trigun were awesome, Naruto is crap, my favorite book for a while was JSA because it was less over the top and more pulp, I've fallen in love with the C'thulhu mythos (because really, it's not "Lovecraftian" if he barely touched it), Season of Mists was one of the best arcs in anything ever, I'm fiending for the next Dresden book (since the Nightside series is over now), and anything steampunk is stupid even tho there's some cool designs that come from it.
But a thing is a thing, and other things may share things in common with that thing, but that doesn't make them the same thing just because you want your thing to be the thing you want it to be.
I'm not even going to touch the Spidey vs. Logan debate, but the tiniest bit of looking up their confrontation history (and there's a good amount of it) shows it's decidedly one-sided.
Have to love how this turned into a spiderman vs wolverine thread.
I also love how the stereotypes are already coming out for both as well.
Plus IMO Spider-Man became stupid after Brand New Day and even more horrible after #700. I could careless about who is better, Marvel has killed the things that made Spider-man great.
I am a Wolverine fan, but Spider-Man is a better "superHero" Wolverine has become more and more a hero over the years, but he is a better Anti-Hero.
I also love how the stereotypes are already coming out for both as well.
Plus IMO Spider-Man became stupid after Brand New Day and even more horrible after #700. I could careless about who is better, Marvel has killed the things that made Spider-man great.
I am a Wolverine fan, but Spider-Man is a better "superHero" Wolverine has become more and more a hero over the years, but he is a better Anti-Hero.
Agreed with everything you said, except we're just going to pretend the story stopped shortly after he took off his mask in Times Square.
At least that's where it did for me.
There was some fighting, Cap was the man, stuff got fixed, somehow-not-stupid people forgot who did what to whom and who was who when, and Spidey got his mask back.
Then it flashes forward into the Tom DeFalco Spider-girl timeline.
Super
1
a : of high grade or quality
b ?used as a generalized term of approval <a super cook>
2
: very large or powerful <a super atomic bomb>
3
: exhibiting the characteristics of its type to an extreme or excessive degree <super secrecy>
Hero
1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage
2
a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3
plural usually he?ros : submarine 2
4
: an object of extreme admiration and devotion : idol
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
OK, so your contention is that the way you fight makes the characters super-humans. The problem with using that as a criteria is TSW is an MMO. In Walking Dead, the protagonists are one-shotting zombies. Being bitten by one is a death sentence. That kind of play is not likely in an MMO. Well, except for the one-shotting enemies thing, CO has that.
So you are saying that CO is a better horror MMO than TSW?
That is a very easy point to make - most MMOs are better than TSW!
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
It's always entertaining reading threads that go in the
Could the player characters in TSW be called superheroes? I think one of the NPCs in the game said it best.
"I knew you'd show up. First zombies. Then the government agents roll in. Now superheroes."
Exactly. TSW itself even admits it is a superhero game.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Super
1
a : of high grade or quality
b ?used as a generalized term of approval <a super cook>
2
: very large or powerful <a super atomic bomb>
3
: exhibiting the characteristics of its type to an extreme or excessive degree <super secrecy>
Hero
1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage
2
a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3
plural usually he?ros : submarine 2
4
: an object of extreme admiration and devotion : idol
Clever. But:
Dis
a: Yo momma so fat, when she sits around the house, she REALLY sits around the house!
Solve
a: Why, Sherlock Holmes, I do believe you've solved the case!
b: Shut the hell up, Watson, Biff's trying to make a point!
Dissolve
a: To break something down at a molecular level or some crap.
Lesson: Putting two separate words together does not just mix their definitions.
Exactly. TSW itself even admits it is a superhero game.
The choice of words in the dialogue of a few NPCs doesn't make it a superhero game. It's not marketed as a superhero game and the creators don't consider it such.
The choice of words in the dialogue of a few NPCs doesn't make it a superhero game. It's not marketed as a superhero game and the creators don't consider it such.
You mean Skyrim isn't an "adventurer like you" simulator?!
Super
1
a : of high grade or quality
b ?used as a generalized term of approval <a super cook>
2
: very large or powerful <a super atomic bomb>
3
: exhibiting the characteristics of its type to an extreme or excessive degree <super secrecy>
Hero
1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage
2
a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3
plural usually he?ros : submarine 2
4
: an object of extreme admiration and devotion : idol
Those definitions are WRONG. Comic books totally did NOT rip off the idea of super heroic beings from ancient mythology at all! :mad:
The choice of words in the dialogue of a few NPCs doesn't make it a superhero game. It's not marketed as a superhero game and the creators don't consider it such.
The dialogue writers clearly realise that an impartial observer would believe that the only people that can get healing out of an assault rifle are superheroes.
Such an impartial observer is correct too.
Remember the creators of TSW also claim that their game doesn't have levels but it does.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
The dialogue writers clearly realise that an impartial observer would believe that the only people that can get healing out of an assault rifle are superheroes.
Such an impartial observer is correct too.
Remember the creators of TSW also claim that their games doesn't have levels but it does.
When I heard that line about superheroes, I took it as if they weren't trying to be literal.
Like, when you go to someone's house and you start acting like a weirdo, and they call you a clown. You didn't actually put on makeup and real big striped pants and go to clown college and get your clowning license. You were just clowning around.
Or when someone calls another person a grammar nazi. They are not, in fact, a national socialist of grammar.
Honestly, I don't think one line of spoken dialogue defines the entire genre of a game.
The dialogue writers clearly realise that an impartial observer would believe that the only people that can get healing out of an assault rifle are superheroes.
Such an impartial observer is correct too.
Remember the creators of TSW also claim that their games doesn't have levels but it does.
Impartial observers making a cultural reference. If they called the characters Wizards would that make the game related to Harry Potter or imply that the player characters are descended from the Istari? What else are they supposed to refer to the characters as?
When I heard that line about superheroes, I took it as if they weren't trying to be literal.
Like, when you go to someone's house and you start acting like a weirdo, and they call you a clown. You didn't actually put on makeup and real big striped pants and go to clown college and get your clowning license. You were just clowning around.
Or when someone calls another person a grammar nazi. They are not, in fact, a national socialist of grammar.
Honestly, I don't think one line of spoken dialogue defines the entire genre of a game.
Many a true word is spoken in jest. Even more when someone is trying to write good dialogue.
A fair number of people have explained why TSW characters are superheroes even though they do not dress like Batman.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
When I heard that line about superheroes, I took it as if they weren't trying to be literal.
Like, when you go to someone's house and you start acting like a weirdo, and they call you a clown. You didn't actually put on makeup and real big striped pants and go to clown college and get your clowning license. You were just clowning around.
Or when someone calls another person a grammar nazi. They are not, in fact, a national socialist of grammar.
Honestly, I don't think one line of spoken dialogue defines the entire genre of a game.
It might not define the genre or the characters in a game, but it does define cultural perception. Back in the ancient era someone with superpowers would have been considered a god, demigod, epic hero or some sort of fey or fey-blooded person. In a modern day setting, almost anyone with superpowers that fights off evil would be considered a "superhero", cuz superheroes are the "gods, demigods, etc." of our age.
Comments
Not trying to sell the game to people y saying it's about superheroes at all. As I said in an earlier post and have pointed out twice now, I don't think it is a superhero game. Not really trying to sell the game to anyone either. One person did mention considering playing and I said they should but, I'd say that about any game someone was saying they were considering playing that I've played and enjoyed.
EDIT: not sure why it's quoting people I didn't select to quote
superhero
super hero
super powers/abilities/technologies used to do heroic things
super heroic
super hero
superhero
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:biggrin:
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Hooboy.
Harry's borderline superheroic because he's one of a select number of people who can do things far beyond those of mortal men in a relatively real-world setting.
And he rides zombie dinosaurs through downtown Chicago.
Several NPCs in TSW call you a "superhero", so I guess they qualify then...
And yet it's still not a superhero game. It will never be a superhero game.
Lol .. that and your other long rant really made my day :biggrin:
I wish you made rants like that also before the released the Vehicle Crap, when everybody
was writing how all these so called "Superheroes" are using Vehicles with guns all day instead
of actually using something like lame super-powers.
The only people that have claimed that it is so far have been the people insisting that it isn't. Everyone else has merely claimed that there are superhero elements in it (but that it is primarily Lovecraftian horror) and that character's in the game meet some of the criteria for the title--not that the game itself is a superhero game.
Sad but true
Thank you for pointing this out.
Not one person who said the characters could be viewed as superheroes actually said the game was a superhero game.
I kept wondering why people were getting so defensive over this when no one actually claimed it.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
This die hard CO fan kitteh took a detour once...does not recommend detours
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I've talked at length with a few people who insist it is a superhero game for various reasons. My statement was me mini-venting because one of the points that they brought up was almost exactly what you said about the NPCs calling the character a superhero.
OK, so your contention is that the way you fight makes the characters super-humans. The problem with using that as a criteria is TSW is an MMO. In Walking Dead, the protagonists are one-shotting zombies. Being bitten by one is a death sentence. That kind of play is not likely in an MMO. Well, except for the one-shotting enemies thing, CO has that.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
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Oh my gawd! Spider-Man? Quintessential definitive superheroes? He spends half his day debating wether or not he should be doing it. He's a whiney nerd compared to some of the greats like Wolverine. I mean, whats he gonna do to wolverine? Use his spidey powers and climb all over him to death?
Wolverine has power written all over his bones, and he's not a media sellout like spider man. You won't ever see Wolverine befriending a reporter and posing for photoshoots. Spiderman should leave the superhero work to the real heroes before he ends up going emo and cutting himself into another Venom/Carnage wrecking ball.
20 bucks Wolverine can beat spiderman in a fight.....naked
Maybe it's just the way I play. In Champions, I'm often moving around the place trying to get the right shots in, trying to take out as many dudes as possible in one hit, actively using defenses and trying to dump aggro when things get hairy and offenses when I really need to blow something up, using lunges to get over there quicker, using a travel power when a guy is about to go BOOM, and blocking other schtick attacks. I'm moving around, always, even without a travel power (I run around with characters that use SuperJump, so while I'm on the ground, I basically am not using a travel power). To me there's a lot more active and reactive thinking.
In Secret World, movement is almost nonexistant. A circle pops up on the ground, you hit your dodge key and call it a day. The game is set up in a way that requires more hands than I have to actively be moving and attacking at the same time. The fact that you can move in any direction, and never "lock on" to a target means that I can't use my mouse to move around, get around a corner, because as soon as I do, my character turns around, and my attack which is currently under way is completely nullified. Why can't I just backpedal with my mouse? In what circumstance am I ever going to want to cancel my big attack by moving? I can't picture that scenario. So, I have to use WASD and my mouse to constantly look at my target. When I'm using WASD, I can't hit my number keys to attack very well. I basically have to stop moving most times that I want to hit an attack. BORING.
So TSW combat feels like I'm just pressing the same buttons while getting EATEN IN THE FACE by zombies, because, you know, that's what you do when you have two pistols, you let zombies eat you while you pop them at point blank range. There's nothing exciting, I can't charge up attacks and then watch zombies go boom! I'm just waiting for one animation to finish so I can queue another attack again, all while just standing there being all eaten, and waiting until I get five points so that I can use another attack that's going to be marginally better than the last five I did. So exciting.
Sorry, but just, nope. Secret World's combat is standard MMO fare. It felt no different to me than playing WoW or GW2. Press a button, watch attack happen, wait for cooldown, press another button, wait for 5 points, press another button. Champs just does not feel the same way to me at all, even though you're technically also pressing a button and sometimes waiting for a cooldown. To me it's the difference between writing a letter and drawing a picture. You use the same tools, but it's a completely different experience.
Given Wolverine's cop-out healing factor, he's impossible to truly beat. That right there is the definition of a badly created character.
Spider-Man's spider sense would do wonders for him in a fight against Wolverine. Spidey could web wolverine up and knock him silly. Don't forget that Spider-Man has superhuman strength. Wolverine does not (unless they've recently made yet another ridiculous retcon to him). A full-power punch from Spidey could knock Wolverine out. Hard.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that most of what you know about superheroes (you know, superheroes like Harry from Harry and the Hendersons) is from film.
You call Spider-Man a whiny nerd, I call him a character with a personality. What's Wolverine? Metal, hair, and a cigar. Oh and he's angry all the time because... well, kids think it's "cool" or something.
Have to love how this turned into a spiderman vs wolverine thread.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Secret Wars Saga. Spider-Man single-handedly dusts the entire X-men team at one time including Wolverine. Professor X comments that they are fortunate he was not trying to injure them.
Edit: Correction. Wolverine says that himself.
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While TSW may not be a superhero game, my Templar IS a superhero :biggrin:
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
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It HAD to. My favorite hero vs. my most hated "hero."
:biggrin:
He just got done fully regenerating after the hulk ate and digested him, he later burst out of the hulks stomach. And has been confirmed at this point to be Immortal.
If we gave both of those hero's powers from champions.
Wolverine would have STR Con Dex super stats
And spidey would have Dex Ego STR
Wolverine would win because "self heals are op".
Shield even gives wolverine a higher rating than Spiderman.
Even though I think wolverine would obliterate spiderman if he'd ever stop running (spiderman again showing his prowess in pvp, always running around shooting webs, even though he's melee, and then gets in to throw a couple cheap shots before running around in circles again, thats all he can do is stun.)
Spawn would still roll both of them up into a ball, Antihero>Gambit>Wolverine>spideyman:rolleyes:
Snap, someone owes me 20 bucks!
I'll take that in small, unmarked bills, please! Or, in Zen. Whatever floats your boat.
A history of terrible writers is not a good argument. :biggrin:
Nick Fury is obviously just a fanboy.
Nah more like Spider-Man > Aunt May > Antihero > < Wolverine.
See that? Antiheroes and Wolverine are both worse than each other. Figure that out.
Imagine what could be said about Superman then (not that he's been brought up, but just sayin')...
Gambit is not a superhero, cuz he wears a trenchcoat, throws cards and uses a staff. He's just an out of work stage magician with a gambling problem.
/Trollface
Don't like Superman either.
Only good guy I can accept as being "immortal" is Hulk, but I don't really know much about today's Hulk, and how stupid-strong they've made him.
That's some successful trolling right here.
He's fended off Storm, Rogue, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus and Cyclops practically all at once. He's even punched Wolverine hard enough to send him flying through what were supposed to be unbreakable windows fitted on Stark Tower.
People underestimate Spider-Man because he's constantly holding back to avoid unnecessary collateral damage and injuring innocent bystanders. Y'know, great responsibility and all. His character revolves around trying to do the right thing and keeping himself from crossing the line. Something Wolverine really doesn't care about.
Spider-Man: "With great power comes great responsibility."
Wolverine: "I'm the best there is at what I do.."
There's a dynamic character in that list above, I'll give you three guesses which one it is.
The reason I linked, and pointed out the trademark thing, is because this isn't about narrowest to widest to whateverest definitions, there are actualy guidelines along which a superhero is measured. Don't try to pull the "widely versed" thing either, there are members of this board who can cite you issue and page number.
John Constantine is not a superhero.
Does it?
Kafkaesque: of, relating to, or suggestive of Franz Kafka or his writings; especially : having a nightmarishly complex, bizarre, or illogical quality
--- Most Hollywood films.
Science fiction: fiction dealing principally with the impact of actual or imagined science on society or individuals or having a scientific factor as an essential orienting component
--- Any theoretical paper or socioeconomic proposal
Sci-fi: of, relating to, or being science fiction <a sci?fi film
--- Farenheit 9/11
Space Opera: a futuristic melodramatic fantasy involving space travelers and extraterrestrial beings
--- Homeboys in Outer Space.
Defining a word is one thing, but trying to break down the conventions of an idea and genre into a single sentence takes away the subtleties that distinguish it.
You mean like Perry White, Lois Lane, MJ Watson, and Rick Jones?
Yup. Not superheroes.
Despite the trolling, you're kinda proving the point... it's not just about powers, spandex, motivation, or setting, it's a combination of many of those things tying to create a particular world and character.
"The Doctor." His name is not "Who," it's "The Doctor."
What I think is weird is this is being taken as a pro or against argument of some kind. Personally, I love Hellblazer, I love anime and I consider DBZ to be a seminal work (not because of quality, but cultural impact among other things), Ranma and Trigun were awesome, Naruto is crap, my favorite book for a while was JSA because it was less over the top and more pulp, I've fallen in love with the C'thulhu mythos (because really, it's not "Lovecraftian" if he barely touched it), Season of Mists was one of the best arcs in anything ever, I'm fiending for the next Dresden book (since the Nightside series is over now), and anything steampunk is stupid even tho there's some cool designs that come from it.
But a thing is a thing, and other things may share things in common with that thing, but that doesn't make them the same thing just because you want your thing to be the thing you want it to be.
I'm not even going to touch the Spidey vs. Logan debate, but the tiniest bit of looking up their confrontation history (and there's a good amount of it) shows it's decidedly one-sided.
I also love how the stereotypes are already coming out for both as well.
Plus IMO Spider-Man became stupid after Brand New Day and even more horrible after #700. I could careless about who is better, Marvel has killed the things that made Spider-man great.
I am a Wolverine fan, but Spider-Man is a better "superHero" Wolverine has become more and more a hero over the years, but he is a better Anti-Hero.
Agreed with everything you said, except we're just going to pretend the story stopped shortly after he took off his mask in Times Square.
At least that's where it did for me.
There was some fighting, Cap was the man, stuff got fixed, somehow-not-stupid people forgot who did what to whom and who was who when, and Spidey got his mask back.
Then it flashes forward into the Tom DeFalco Spider-girl timeline.
1
a : of high grade or quality
b ?used as a generalized term of approval <a super cook>
2
: very large or powerful <a super atomic bomb>
3
: exhibiting the characteristics of its type to an extreme or excessive degree <super secrecy>
Hero
1
a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability
b : an illustrious warrior
c : a man admired for his achievements and noble qualities
d : one who shows great courage
2
a : the principal male character in a literary or dramatic work
b : the central figure in an event, period, or movement
3
plural usually he?ros : submarine 2
4
: an object of extreme admiration and devotion : idol
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Roflmao!!!!
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So you are saying that CO is a better horror MMO than TSW?
That is a very easy point to make - most MMOs are better than TSW!
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Exactly. TSW itself even admits it is a superhero game.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Clever. But:
Dis
a: Yo momma so fat, when she sits around the house, she REALLY sits around the house!
Solve
a: Why, Sherlock Holmes, I do believe you've solved the case!
b: Shut the hell up, Watson, Biff's trying to make a point!
Dissolve
a: To break something down at a molecular level or some crap.
Lesson: Putting two separate words together does not just mix their definitions.
It does when one part of the word is an adjective...
trolololololo
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The choice of words in the dialogue of a few NPCs doesn't make it a superhero game. It's not marketed as a superhero game and the creators don't consider it such.
You mean Skyrim isn't an "adventurer like you" simulator?!
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Dammit!
Okay, fine, you're right. Strawberry Shortcake is a superhero.
Those definitions are WRONG. Comic books totally did NOT rip off the idea of super heroic beings from ancient mythology at all! :mad:
*checks the History section of the Superhero Fiction article in wikipedia*
...oh wait... :redface:
It USED TO BE!
Until it...
took...
an...
There we go! Took fifteen pages before I nearly choked on my drink.
The dialogue writers clearly realise that an impartial observer would believe that the only people that can get healing out of an assault rifle are superheroes.
Such an impartial observer is correct too.
Remember the creators of TSW also claim that their game doesn't have levels but it does.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Sir, you're welcome.
When I heard that line about superheroes, I took it as if they weren't trying to be literal.
Like, when you go to someone's house and you start acting like a weirdo, and they call you a clown. You didn't actually put on makeup and real big striped pants and go to clown college and get your clowning license. You were just clowning around.
Or when someone calls another person a grammar nazi. They are not, in fact, a national socialist of grammar.
Honestly, I don't think one line of spoken dialogue defines the entire genre of a game.
Agreed. And she could most likely thrash both Spiderman and Wolverine. Most likely via the use of pie. Mummm justice pie of thrashing.
Impartial observers making a cultural reference. If they called the characters Wizards would that make the game related to Harry Potter or imply that the player characters are descended from the Istari? What else are they supposed to refer to the characters as?
inb4 witches and warlocks
Many a true word is spoken in jest. Even more when someone is trying to write good dialogue.
A fair number of people have explained why TSW characters are superheroes even though they do not dress like Batman.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
It might not define the genre or the characters in a game, but it does define cultural perception. Back in the ancient era someone with superpowers would have been considered a god, demigod, epic hero or some sort of fey or fey-blooded person. In a modern day setting, almost anyone with superpowers that fights off evil would be considered a "superhero", cuz superheroes are the "gods, demigods, etc." of our age.