I'm still surprised that companies are still even trying the buy-and-subscribe model. Back when Champs went free to play (well, when it was announced) I was still of the mindset that free-to-play was a sign of sure death. Sure, Champions hasn't come leaps and bounds over the years, but it's clear that it was a positive move for the game. I thought The Old Republic was going to be the last game that could sustain a buy-and-subscribe model, just based purely on the franchise. Now I'm pretty convinced that no game will survive without having some free aspect to it.
If Buy-to-Play doesn't work we will soon know as TSW will have to abandon it, just as they abandoned subscription.
I pity the people who were tricked into buying life-times for TSW and can sympathise as to why they might be so grouchy, having been treated so shabbily.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Well you may not have read, for example, any WildStorms and Vertigo comics.
There are more superheroes in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your comic collection.
First off, the "cowboy with a gun and magical staff" is Harry Dresden.
Second, I'm fully aware of Vertigo and Wildstorm titles. But they do not fit the typical mold of superpowers that allow one to juggle planets and striking spandexed costumes. Vertigo and Wildstorm are a subset, not the mainstream.
Harry Dresden, wizard for hire. Definitely not a superhero, just like I don't see the characters from TSW being superheroes. Mystically gifted yes, but they don't really scream "superhero".
TSW definitely seems like urban fantasy. Sounds good, but I like traditional superheroes, like in Marvel and DC.
In a "supers" game or setting, there is no "veil" or masquerade everyone is dancing around. Superheroes save the day and then are interviewed by the news reporter.
A few other tidbits I discovered through playing; Abilities are broken up into an inner ring and outer ring, (you must complete a particular set's inner ring to unlock its outer ring). When you do this, you get some clothing that goes along with the set - like a camo jacket for assault rifles. You also get clothing from your faction whenever you reach a new tier within their organization.
As far as "supers or not" goes, I think of superheroes in terms of power levels. Wolverine doesn't always wear his X-Men uniform, and he would fit perfectly into the TSW universe if he were in plain clothes. The same could be said for Batman, (sans the Bat-vehicles), Scarlet Witch, (there's even a chaos magic set w/ powers dealing w/ probabilities and such), etc. It's just not the upper levels of power and flashy costumes that you'll find in TSW.
Regardless, the sluggishness of travel and having to buy all abilities in order to get higher ones, is annoying. The lack of a "try before you buy" system in TSW also means that once you click to up that skill or abilities, you are committed. Still, once you get a hang of it, skill and ability points pour in, so it's not too long before you can continue the progression the way you wanted.
One huge plus for TSW, though, is that pretty much any power set you choose has some way of healing yourself, so you don't have to feel left out if you went with one weapon over the other. At least one ability in each set also builds "resources" that are used to cast powers for both your equipped weapons as well.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
A few other tidbits I discovered through playing; Abilities are broken up into an inner ring and outer ring, (you must complete a particular set's inner ring to unlock its outer ring). When you do this, you get some clothing that goes along with the set - like a camo jacket for assault rifles. You also get clothing from your faction whenever you reach a new tier within their organization.
As far as "supers or not" goes, I think of superheroes in terms of power levels. Wolverine doesn't always wear his X-Men uniform, and he would fit perfectly into the TSW universe if he were in plain clothes. The same could be said for Batman, (sans the Bat-vehicles), Scarlet Witch, (there's even a chaos magic set w/ powers dealing w/ probabilities and such), etc. It's just not the upper levels of power and flashy costumes that you'll find in TSW.
Regardless, the sluggishness of travel and having to buy all abilities in order to get higher ones, is annoying. The lack of a "try before you buy" system in TSW also means that once you click to up that skill or abilities, you are committed. Still, once you get a hang of it, skill and ability points pour in, so it's not too long before you can continue the progression the way you wanted.
One huge plus for TSW, though, is that pretty much any power set you choose has some way of healing yourself, so you don't have to feel left out if you went with one weapon over the other. At least one ability in each set also builds "resources" that are used to cast powers for both your equipped weapons as well.
how far did you get to? i went as far as the sirens song. and look for the guys foot prints
how far did you get to? i went as far as the sirens song. and look for the guys foot prints
Well, I'm at step 11 or 12 of 18 on the main storyline quest. I completed the academy area, the carnival area, and just doing the lighthouse now. I've kinda been wandering around, though, so I haven't been focused on the main quest. I bought all of the 1st tiers for assault rifle, sword, and blood magic, and far into 2 of the outer circle sets for assault rifle. I'm using QL6 gear.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Well, I'm at step 11 or 12 of 18 on the main storyline quest. I completed the academy area, the carnival area, and just doing the lighthouse now. I've kinda been wandering around, though, so I haven't been focused on the main quest. I bought all of the 1st tiers for assault rifle, sword, and blood magic, and far into 2 of the outer circle sets for assault rifle. I'm using QL6 gear.
nice , i went duel pistols and sword. how is blood magic and assault rifle?
Harry Dresden, wizard for hire. Definitely not a superhero, just like I don't see the characters from TSW being superheroes.
Harry's borderline in my book. He's kind of a John Constantine - who apparently is Justice League material now - and Harry does stuff like this when he's not imitating the Undertaker:
Of course, Jim Butcher also played City of Heroes.
nice , i went duel pistols and sword. how is blood magic and assault rifle?
I really like assault rifle. Lot's of leech effects and HoT's. I really haven't messed around w/ blood magic that much - only using a QL4 focus that i got as a random drop and really using it more for the heals.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
It depends on how far you stretch the definition of "fae" but I think there's some stuff in there hidden around the corners. And you may find more fae related once you get to Transylvania (I would have to do some research for more specifics but I believe there's fae related stuff there). The woman at the Horned God is just a human dressed as a fairy, though (I think). @Pion
Actually, I hate replies within quoted text but Ima have to do it this time around cuz it would be easier for this...
I think there are more "yes" or "maybes" than "nos" there if you take a closer look.
Secret identity has a different connotation than simply having an identity you keep secret. It's like any spy having a secret identity - that's not really the case, they're just not really supposed to reveal any persona to the public.
When they say underlying theme or motif they mean more of the personalized traits thing, like bat-ears, spider-spandex, and super-spit-curl, than a story/genre theme. You could argue Dragon Enforcer, but then you're just a militant member rather than a "superhero."
Rogues gallery usually refers to a collection of villains consistent with... I'm going to say this poorly, but I can't really think it out less vaguely.... the world in which the hero operates. I know that technically means TSW as well, but it's more along the lines of recurring, "colorful," characters personalized in some way to the hero, like Joker, Penguin, Croc, etc. They are very Batman, and generally don't function independently outside of his world very well. They also have some kind of more personal connection to the hero, like Green Goblin killing Gwen Stacie (spoilers? ). I'm really not saying this well, it's a hard idea to convey. The closest thing I can think of is like a Magic the Gathering card set - you have a dark set, a water set, etc. they just fit together a certain way.
Re: employment, you're more of an independent soldier. The idea is the general division between the personal life and the rigors of it, like keeping a job, and finding a balance with, or using it towards, the crime-fighting/life-saving.
Backstory - sure, but IMO, mostly because backstories are usually kinda not good, and TSW manages to completely.... generificate? everyone's backstory (which IMO, removes the personal backstory that's important to the superheroe's motivation).
A lot of this is personal opinion, and I can see why folks would disagree, I'm just saying there are certain, admittedly vague, elements usually involved, and while the letter can be stretched, upon close examination it's easier to see the subtleties.
Consider the general idea of a Cop - strong moral compass, fights crime, special abilities/training in order to do so, employed with minimal supervision that allows him to fight crime, deals consistently with repeat offenders, and may have had an inciting event that motivated him to put on the badge, and the underlying motif of being a boy in blue(or whatever), of which each force has a distinctive version. Has a partner and family, works with the DA's office, and has a headquarters. Yet they are typically not seen as a "superhero." (disclaimer: this is not a judgement or moral whatever about how they aren't brave or heroes for protecting the peace, etc.)
Harry's borderline in my book. He's kind of a John Constantine - who apparently is Justice League material now - and Harry does stuff like this when he's not imitating the Undertaker:
Of course, Jim Butcher also played City of Heroes.
While that's awesome, I think this is more accurate
As far as "supers or not" goes, I think of superheroes in terms of power levels. Wolverine doesn't always wear his X-Men uniform, and he would fit perfectly into the TSW universe if he were in plain clothes. The same could be said for Batman, (sans the Bat-vehicles), Scarlet Witch, (there's even a chaos magic set w/ powers dealing w/ probabilities and such), etc. It's just not the upper levels of power and flashy costumes that you'll find in TSW.
Harry's borderline in my book. He's kind of a John Constantine - who apparently is Justice League material now - and Harry does stuff like this when he's not imitating the Undertaker:
[Picture of Dresden riding a T-Rex.]
Of course, Jim Butcher also played City of Heroes.
Well then, if we're taking the assumption that everyone with supernatural powers are superheroes...
Then this is a superhero:
This is a superhero:
This is a superhero:
This is a superhero:
Somehow, secretly, all this time, all of these stories were really about superhero universes. It seems all the times I played D&D, I was really RPing a superhero and not an adventurer in a fantastic land. I guess that makes WoW the most successful superhero game ever.
In EACH of the three faction beginnings, it's explicitly and without question explained to you that your character is no special snowflake. You're a cog in an army. Nothing more, nothing less. If you fall, there's more waiting behind you to take up the fight.
That isn't super. In any stretch of imagination. A bee crawls down your throat to give you magical powers. Whoopie. Those powers are severely limited to only being able to use them effectively with a focus. Not very super.
Sure, you become almost impossible to kill(the game even tells you that) but then...so is every other soldier in each respective faction's army. Nothing super there.
Urban fantasy. Kinda like Cyberpunk. Or Steampunk. Not a superhero game. At all.
In EACH of the three faction beginnings, it's explicitly and without question explained to you that your character is no special snowflake. You're a cog in an army. Nothing more, nothing less. If you fall, there's more waiting behind you to take up the fight.
That isn't super. In any stretch of imagination. A bee crawls down your throat to give you magical powers. Whoopie. Those powers are severely limited to only being able to use them effectively with a focus. Not very super.
Sure, you become almost impossible to kill(the game even tells you that) but then...so is every other soldier in each respective faction's army. Nothing super there.
Urban fantasy. Kinda like Cyberpunk. Or Steampunk. Not a superhero game. At all.
Seems like everyone has their own definition of what being a superhero is.
If viewed like that, then no, they probably wouldn't be considered superheroes.
But, you can also view them as:
Anima-infused beings with near limitless physical and mental attributes trying to save the world from the demons of hell and filth-infested entities.
In that case, greater than normal beings fighting for the good of mankind = superhero.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
First off, the "cowboy with a gun and magical staff" is Harry Dresden.
Second, I'm fully aware of Vertigo and Wildstorm titles. But they do not fit the typical mold of superpowers that allow one to juggle planets and striking spandexed costumes. Vertigo and Wildstorm are a subset, not the mainstream.
If you define superhumans only by the narrowest of definitions, by the very middle of the mainstream, then of course you won't agree with people who have read and appreciated the wider genre, which includes various cowboy superheroes, wizards and superhero characters like John Constantine.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
If you define superhumans only by the narrowest of definitions, by the very middle of the mainstream, then of course you won't agree with people who have read and appreciated the wider genre, which includes various cowboy superheroes, wizards and superhero characters like John Constantine.
And if we broaden it to everything with supernatural powers like you people insist, this becomes a superhero:
Seems like everyone has their own definition of what being a superhero is.
If viewed like that, then no, they probably wouldn't be considered superheroes.
But, you can also view them as:
Anima-infused beings with near limitless physical and mental attributes trying to save the world from the demons of hell and filth-infested entities.
In that case, greater than normal beings fighting for the good of mankind = superhero.
No, that's just people trying to shoehorn every possible idea into the theme of "superhero" to try to recruit people to their game.
Honestly, people. Just because you have powers does not make you a superhero. Just because you've been in a comic book does not make you a superhero. Goku is super. He is a hero. He's not a superhero. Puff the Magic dragon was a dragon! He could live forever! That's a superpower right? No, not a superhero either.
Seriously, you guys can argue until you're blue in the face (super power! you're a superhero!), but just having powers does not make you a super hero. Honestly at the end of this whole conversation, we're going to have people debating that Jesus Christ was a superhero because he could walk on water and turn water into wine (make that beer and we'll talk) (BUT COULD HE WALK ON WINE?!). Super Heroes are people with super powers that appear in superhero comic books. Man riding a dinosaur is not a superhero. Iron Giant was not a superhero (even though he idolized Superman! Irony! Iron Irony!) Merlin was not a superhero! Hitler was not a superhero! The Chinese emperor guy that had a million clay statues made to guard him WHEN HE'S EFFING DEAD was not a superhero! They did not find a unicorn in China! Sherlock Holmes was not a super hero! The Doctor from that stupid show Doctor Who is not a superhero just because he has a magic box that he can travel time with! Bilbo was not a superhero because he could turn invisible and mistakenly win a riddle contest! The Lost Skeleton of Cadavera could command a woman made from miscellaneous forest creatures to bring him an Amish terrarium... NOT A SUPERHERO!!! OBI WAN KENOBI SAID THESE AIN'T YOUR DAMN DROIDS, HES NOT A SUPER HERO! LIGHTNING MCQUEEN WON THE RACE! NOT A SUPERHERO! ICARUS FLEW TOO HIGH TO THE SUN ON STUPID WAX WINGS, NOT A SUPER HERO! COLUMBO COULD SOLVE THE EFF OUT OF EVERY DAMN CASE! NOT A SUPERHERO!!! ORGASMO... okay. GARGAMEL COULD RAVAGE THE LANDS LIKE NEVER BEFORE, TOTAL DESTRUCTION FROM MOUNTAIN TO SHORE! NOOOOOT AAAAAA SUUUUPERHERO!!! OR VILLAIN, WHATEVER. CHEF RAMSAY SAVES RESTAURANTS! NOT A SUPERHERO!!! ZOLTAR FROM BIG TURNED TOM HANKS INTO AN ADULT! HE WAS NOT A DAMN SUPER HERO
Quit trying to shoehorn whatever you're into nowadays into the superhero genre! Nobody's buying it!
As far as "supers or not" goes, I think of superheroes in terms of power levels. Wolverine doesn't always wear his X-Men uniform, and he would fit perfectly into the TSW universe if he were in plain clothes. The same could be said for Batman, (sans the Bat-vehicles), Scarlet Witch, (there's even a chaos magic set w/ powers dealing w/ probabilities and such), etc. It's just not the upper levels of power and flashy costumes that you'll find in TSW.
This is a more considered statement on whether TSW is superhero or not.
People may not be widely read but there are times when even Wonder Woman gave up her costume and adventured as Diana Prince. Take the recent Marvel superhero films, even these were populated with non-costumed characters active in a superhero world.
Superheroes, in reference to another comment, can also be part of armies. The Green Lantern corps are both military and police, every one potentially has the same abilities but the powers they use vary dependent on the Latern's interests.
What seals it for me is how characters in CO and TSW deals with zombie hoards. Both MMOs have them, you deal with them in pretty much the same way - you just pile in or take them on at range.
Compare and contrast this with the Walking Dead TV or comic series.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
People may not be widely read but there are times when even Wonder Woman gave up her costume and adventured as Diana Prince. Take the recent Marvel superhero films, even these were populated with non-costumed characters active in a superhero world.
ARE YOU SURE???
That sure looks like Cap's star-spangled outfit right there. And there's Tony Stark in his suit of Iron Man armor. And hey! I don't think anyone outside Asgard dresses like that! Must be Thor! Oh, and look Black Widow in a sexy catsuit; I don't think any other women dress like that unless they're into BDSM! And Hulk is Hulk!
Seriously, just take a look at what I get when I Google "superhero!" I don't see any dudes in trench coats fighting zombies there. No, I see capes and spandex.
: a fictional hero having extraordinary or superhuman powers; also : an exceptionally skillful or successful person
What was the topic of the thread? Oh Secret World.
Lacks all Champions travel powers, all the freedom of motion in combat, lacks any
reason for alting, options in style are like Benneton throw aways from 1990s.
No physics on clothing but the boobs jiggle ever so gently. Go figure.
The worst part of Champions free form ,dealing with all the power choices you don't want to pick but have to just to unlock other stuff, is constantly thrown in your face for the entire run of the game in TSW. Oh you 'leveled up' ten times and stashed tons of points? You get to go shopping and buy complete crap that doesn't improve your game play experience at all. In fact you will not be using ANY of these power choices later in your game, maybe as soon as you've chosen them and forever after.
You can wear an eight foot staff or the local phone book of the living
dead on your back, show everyone you know how to read and carry logs.
Did you pick up six foot long bazooka? put that on your back to, you know you made a female toon so you could glare at the bazooka butt for hours.
Need to get from the lighthouse to the far end of spooky beach?
Why drive? Vehicles are obviously only for super heroes in super hero games or gang members in gang games, or power armor guys in power armor planet invasion games. Certainly no non superhero lightning bolt wielding magical ak47 team healing normal person could drive a car or ride a bicycle, or float merrily merrily down the stream.
Oh well, at least it has Jeffrey Combs.
Last time I rented a movie with him in it was 1997, I got a terrible throat infection followed by psoriasis that has never gone away, all the while Blockbuster was hounding me for two weeks: "Nextnametaken, please return The Necronomicon".
I have no idea how that makes TSW not being amazingly fun 'ok', but it does.
I guess things could be worse, right?
Seriously, just take a look at what I get when I Google "superhero!" I don't see any dudes in trench coats fighting zombies there. No, I see capes and spandex.
I did this one once. Got a face full of "WELL MLLLOOOHYEAH WHAT GOOGLE THINKS IS A SUPERHERO IS NOT WHAT A REAL SUPERHERO IS MGLLLLLAAAAHHHHHHH" and then some cthulhu or something. Everything that is not ordinary is a superhero. Super Mario Bros. Piranha Plant - Super Hero extraordinaire.
What was the topic of the thread? Oh Secret World.
Lacks all Champions travel powers, all the freedom of motion in combat, lacks any
reason for alting, options in style are like Benneton throw aways from 1990s.
No physics on clothing but the boobs jiggle ever so gently. Go figure.
The worst part of Champions free form ,dealing with all the power choices you don't want to pick but have to just to unlock other stuff, is constantly thrown in your face for the entire run of the game in TSW. Oh you 'leveled up' ten times and stashed tons of points? You get to go shopping and buy complete crap that doesn't improve your game play experience at all. In fact you will not be using ANY of these power choices later in your game, maybe as soon as you've chosen them and forever after.
You can wear an eight foot staff or the local phone book of the living
dead on your back, show everyone you know how to read and carry logs.
Did you pick up six foot long bazooka? put that on your back to, you know you made a female toon so you could glare at the bazooka butt for hours.
Need to get from the lighthouse to the far end of spooky beach?
Why drive? Vehicles are obviously only for super heroes in super hero games or gang members in gang games, or power armor guys in power armor planet invasion games. Certainly no non superhero lightning bolt wielding magical ak47 team healing normal person could drive a car or ride a bicycle, or float merrily merrily down the stream.
Oh well, at least it has Jeffrey Combs.
Last time I rented a movie with him in it was 1997, I got a terrible throat infection followed by psoriasis that has never gone away, all the while Blockbuster was hounding me for two weeks: "Nextnametaken, please return The Necronomicon".
I have no idea how that makes TSW not being amazingly fun 'ok', but it does.
I guess things could be worse, right?
I wouldn't google such a word expecting good results...especially from google. If there was a movie that came out called "SuperHero" google images would be completely messed up and full of movie posters if you googled the term. But I did actually google it just now, and the only pictures I found were from Marvel, and DC comics characters....thats it, there was 1 picture of Todd Mcfarlanes spawn at the very bottom, but thats it. According to google, no other superhero's exist except for the avengers and the justice league.
Super hero stuff always work like that, the guy who has the most posters, and TV airtime always gets called the hero first. But then you look at a picture like this.
And all the guys in the back get overshadowed by SPIDERMANS BIG HEAD!
"Oh I have tons of toys on the shelves look at meeee! I'm the most popular hero, the true example of a superhero don't pay attention to that other guy in the back, he's not a hero at all, his efforts of superhero-ness and saving lives should be ignored because HE DOESN'T HAVE A SHOE DEAL FOR 5 YEAR OLDS.
^^^^^Annoyances like that make villains. Stupid spiderman.
I wouldn't google such a word expecting good results...especially from google. If there was a movie that came out called "SuperHero" google images would be completely messed up and full of movie posters if you googled the term. But I did actually google it just now, and the only pictures I found were from Marvel, and DC comics characters....thats it, there was 1 picture of Todd Mcfarlanes spawn at the very bottom, but thats it. According to google, no other superhero's exist except for the avengers and the justice league.
Super hero stuff always work like that, the guy who has the most posters, and TV airtime always gets called the hero first. But then you look at a picture like this.
And all the guys in the back get overshadowed by SPIDERMANS BIG HEAD!
"Oh I have tons of toys on the shelves look at meeee! I'm the most popular hero, the true example of a superhero don't pay attention to that other guy in the back, he's not a hero at all, his efforts of superhero-ness and saving lives should be ignored because HE DOESN'T HAVE A SHOE DEAL FOR 5 YEAR OLDS.
^^^^^Annoyances like that make villains. Stupid spiderman.
Only thing wrong with that picture is that Wolverine is in it. He's not a superhero. He's a pointy emo.
Spider-Man is in the front because he's a tried-and-tested superhero, the very definition of the term. Wolverine is a piece of asscrap and does not deserve a shoe deal AT ALL.
Just because you prefer a darky broody emoey hero because he's all "meh!" and "blah!" and his hair covers one of his eyes does not make that guy a better hero than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is a damn staple of the SuperHero genre, an idol, the damned DEFINITION of a SuperHero.
Don't try to play that down. Spider-Man is one of the most quintessential and most definitive superheroes.
If you're going to argue with the guy that has the most poster-time, you're talking about trendy-**** Wolverine. Not Spider-Man.
On top of that... It would only take three panels for Spider-Man to turn Wolverine into a balloon poodle.
This is a more considered statement on whether TSW is superhero or not.
People may not be widely read but there are times when even Wonder Woman gave up her costume and adventured as Diana Prince. Take the recent Marvel superhero films, even these were populated with non-costumed characters active in a superhero world.
Superheroes, in reference to another comment, can also be part of armies. The Green Lantern corps are both military and police, every one potentially has the same abilities but the powers they use vary dependent on the Latern's interests.
What seals it for me is how characters in CO and TSW deals with zombie hoards. Both MMOs have them, you deal with them in pretty much the same way - you just pile in or take them on at range.
Compare and contrast this with the Walking Dead TV or comic series.
I believe it comes down to old timers saying, if you don't wear spandex, and your buttcheeks aren't squeezed and spread by a leather thong that goes over your stockings then you are not a super hero.
In some parts of this forum, you have to run around looking like this, to be considered a super hero.
"BUT MAI SUIT GIVES ME POWAR!!!?!?!!!"
Coulda fooled me, I thought it was a wedgie.:rolleyes:
I believe it comes down to old timers saying, if you don't wear spandex, and your buttcheeks aren't squeezed and spread by a leather thong that goes over your stockings then you are not a super hero.
In some parts of this forum, you have to run around looking like this, to be considered a super hero.
"BUT MAI SUIT GIVES ME POWAR!!!?!?!!!"
Coulda fooled me, I thought it was a wedgie.:rolleyes:
Well yes, of course, but your side of the fence is saying that these are the real superheroes:
No, that's just people trying to shoehorn every possible idea into the theme of "superhero" to try to recruit people to their game.
Honestly, people. Just because you have powers does not make you a superhero. Just because you've been in a comic book does not make you a superhero. Goku is super. He is a hero. He's not a superhero. Puff the Magic dragon was a dragon! He could live forever! That's a superpower right? No, not a superhero either.
Seriously, you guys can argue until you're blue in the face (super power! you're a superhero!), but just having powers does not make you a super hero. Honestly at the end of this whole conversation, we're going to have people debating that Jesus Christ was a superhero because he could walk on water and turn water into wine (make that beer and we'll talk) (BUT COULD HE WALK ON WINE?!). Super Heroes are people with super powers that appear in superhero comic books. Man riding a dinosaur is not a superhero. Iron Giant was not a superhero (even though he idolized Superman! Irony! Iron Irony!) Merlin was not a superhero! Hitler was not a superhero! The Chinese emperor guy that had a million clay statues made to guard him WHEN HE'S EFFING DEAD was not a superhero! They did not find a unicorn in China! Sherlock Holmes was not a super hero! The Doctor from that stupid show Doctor Who is not a superhero just because he has a magic box that he can travel time with! Bilbo was not a superhero because he could turn invisible and mistakenly win a riddle contest! The Lost Skeleton of Cadavera could command a woman made from miscellaneous forest creatures to bring him an Amish terrarium... NOT A SUPERHERO!!! OBI WAN KENOBI SAID THESE AIN'T YOUR DAMN DROIDS, HES NOT A SUPER HERO! LIGHTNING MCQUEEN WON THE RACE! NOT A SUPERHERO! ICARUS FLEW TOO HIGH TO THE SUN ON STUPID WAX WINGS, NOT A SUPER HERO! COLUMBO COULD SOLVE THE EFF OUT OF EVERY DAMN CASE! NOT A SUPERHERO!!! ORGASMO... okay. GARGAMEL COULD RAVAGE THE LANDS LIKE NEVER BEFORE, TOTAL DESTRUCTION FROM MOUNTAIN TO SHORE! NOOOOOT AAAAAA SUUUUPERHERO!!! OR VILLAIN, WHATEVER. CHEF RAMSAY SAVES RESTAURANTS! NOT A SUPERHERO!!! ZOLTAR FROM BIG TURNED TOM HANKS INTO AN ADULT! HE WAS NOT A DAMN SUPER HERO
Quit trying to shoehorn whatever you're into nowadays into the superhero genre! Nobody's buying it!
*Biffs Biff in the Biff*
Calm down. Breathe. Relax. Here, have a xanax. Or five. Go poke Caliga some more.
If you can't make someone at least vaguely resembling Superman, it's not a super-hero game. It may even be a game with super-heroics in it, but that's not the same thing. SW is a "super-spy/conspiracy" game. Not being able to fly under your own power is a big divide.
Interesting. Does that mean that you don't consider a vast amount of the characters in super hero comics to not be super heroes?
There's no capes but, I've already seen a couple pretty outlandish costumes in the game, including a very well done remake of the Shoveller.
While Champs is definitely on the linear side, I still find its combat to be more exciting than any other MMO I've ever played. I do like the dodging aspect of TSW and GW2, but that's about as far as my "likes" go for their combat systems.
I found this interesting because, to me, there really isn't much difference at all in the actual mechanics of combat in any MMOs.
If you stop and think about it, there are a lot of similarities in the combat of CO and TSW (excluding when you're using travel powers). In both, you're basically trying to balance the costs of some sort of meter and it's recovery against the expenditure of that meter. Both of them very heavily focus on synergies between the various powers you have as well if you want to optimize. Neither of them requires it if you stick to run of the mill content but, to accomplish anything resembling a challenge, it is needed.
The only real difference between combat in CO and TSW, imo, is that CO allows the use of travel powers but, also has powers that root you in place while they're being used.
However they failed to create modern day setting because all of the places seemed to take the weird events as normal, rather than being freaked out by them. If the characters are part of secret societies then they are clearly superhuman secret societies.
I'd think that's kind of obvious seeing as the word secret is right in the name of the game.
In London, for example, you find monsters browsing and selling things in an open air market and this is not a sign of a modern day setting.
You must have not spoken to any of the NPCs in London. If you talk to some of them, you find out that the small part of London that you're in has actually been closed off to the public. It's the only social area in the game where the NPCs are considered to be in the know.
No, TSW started off as a subscription model despite not being good enough to survive in that manner. Naive people bought lifetime subscriptions only for subscriptions to be be abandoned fairly quickly.
This is highly debateable. A large part of the problem with TSW's beginning comes from outside factors and has little to do with the game itself. To simply say it wasn't good enough completely ignores the other games that came out right before, and after, that already had an established fanbase to draw people in, some of which people had been waiting years for, something TSW lacked.
There's also the fact that it had the shadow of Conan to deal with, considering that game did do fairly well at it's release in terms of sales but, left a large number of people disappointed so, this time around, most people were standoffish due to not wanting to go through that again.
There are plenty of different ways to level a character in CO and it is far, far richer than TSW having the Champions universe to draw from.
This last comment is pretty laughable for a number of reasons. One of those being that the only method of leveling that CO has that TSW lacks is alerts. IMO, those get pretty boring pretty fast seeing as it's just rushing in to pummel a single boss plus a few lackeys in a minute or two before zoning out to do zone into another alert and do it again.
As far as which one actually has a richer lore goes... Here's a small sampling of where TSW draws it's lore from.
Not saying CO's lore is bad. Just think it's pretty silly to say that the lore of a PnP game is richer than the entirety of real world myths and religion.
That sure looks like Cap's star-spangled outfit right there. And there's Tony Stark in his suit of Iron Man armor. And hey! I don't think anyone outside Asgard dresses like that! Must be Thor! Oh, and look Black Widow in a sexy catsuit; I don't think any other women dress like that unless they're into BDSM! And Hulk is Hulk!
Seriously, just take a look at what I get when I Google "superhero!" I don't see any dudes in trench coats fighting zombies there. No, I see capes and spandex.
Thor is not a superhero. He's a fantasy character based on Nordic mythology.
Tony Stark is not a superhero. He's a guy with no super powers in a suit.
Black Widow is a spy--not a superhero (and spies and agent types dress like that when they go out on missions).
The Hulk is a scientist that turns into a huge green monster and wears no spandex or recognizible costumes on either form--not a superhero.
The only guy that barely passes for a superhero is the guy in the middle--because he has (barely) superhuman strength and physical conditioning, and wears spandex (sort of) and a recognizible outfit. But what does he uses to fight? A lame **** shield :rolleyes: --barely a superhero.
It's always entertaining reading threads that go in the direction this one has. I don't think TSW is a super hero game but, if you look at the characters in it individually, many of them could qualify for the title super hero.
It's also interesting to see how people try to define what is, and isn't, a superhero given that the definitions of it can be so arbitrary and contradictory. For almost any claim someone tries to make saying that one character isn't a superhero, someone else can point to a character created by one of the major comic publishers that does actually fit that definition and is treated as a superhero by that publisher.
If being part of an army means you're not a superhero, does that mean no one in the Lantern Corps is one?
Someone said that Goku isn't a superhero (I don't think he is one actually) but, let's look at that. Being from a destroyed world found on Earth as a small child with the potential to wield an amazing amount of power that fights to protect his friends and the world he now calls home. I think there's a couple parallels between him and Superman.
One person mentioned a nemesis. Well, in TSW, your first enemy is another anima infused being that plots to destroy the world. In fact, the two of you are powerful enough that he acknowledges that he's not even going to try killing you because it would be too much work, so instead, you're forced to try to stop his plans to bring ruin to the world while he tries to delay you from doing it in time rather than just attempting to kill each other outright. Sounds like some of the conflicts you find in comic books to me.
I also got the impression that someone thought being a magic user disqualifies you from being one but, Scarlet Witch, Morgan Le Fey, Talisman, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Raven, and Dr. Strange come to mind.
I think what defines a superhero is a combination of the characterstics of the individual character and the setting itself and that part of the defining part of it is that most superheroes are exceptional for a number of reasons, one of the key ones being that they do something that not just anyone can up and decide to do one day. Even Batman spent years in preperation for the day he'd fight crime.
Is TSW a superhero game? I don't think so. I think it straddles a middle ground between superhero, Lovecraftian, and secret agent style settings.
Could the player characters in TSW be called superheroes? I think one of the NPCs in the game said it best.
"I knew you'd show up. First zombies. Then the government agents roll in. Now superheroes."
Hey correct! The thing you like also has embarrassing idiots waving your flag around!
Don't act like you're exempt. :P
Actually on my side of the fence My heroes look like this.
Or this.
Or Fanfics
I enjoy anti-heroes. The darker, the grittier, the realer the better. Especially when they use all the powers in the universe to fight, but a simple bullet puts someone down. I dunno who makes their heroes look like Dr. Who, but you at least have to have some sort of costume. As long as its not spandex, and realistically battle ready, its all good.
Also Dr. Who could totally become an X-Men
It's always entertaining reading threads that go in the direction this one has. I don't think TSW is a super hero game but, if you look at the characters in it individually, many of them could qualify for the title super hero.
It's also interesting to see how people try to define what is, and isn't, a superhero given that the definitions of it can be so arbitrary and contradictory. For almost any claim someone tries to make saying that one character isn't a superhero, someone else can point to a character created by one of the major comic publishers that does actually fit that definition and is treated as a superhero by that publisher.
If being part of an army means you're not a superhero, does that mean no one in the Lantern Corps is one?
Someone said that Goku isn't a superhero (I don't think he is one actually) but, let's look at that. Being from a destroyed world found on Earth as a small child with the potential to wield an amazing amount of power that fights to protect his friends and the world he now calls home. I think there's a couple parallels between him and Superman.
One person mentioned a nemesis. Well, in TSW, your first enemy is another anima infused being that plots to destroy the world. In fact, the two of you are powerful enough that he acknowledges that he's not even going to try killing you because it would be too much work, so instead, you're forced to try to stop his plans to bring ruin to the world while he tries to delay you from doing it in time rather than just attempting to kill each other outright. Sounds like some of the conflicts you find in comic books to me.
I also got the impression that someone thought being a magic user disqualifies you from being one but, Scarlet Witch, Morgan Le Fey, Talisman, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Raven, and Dr. Strange come to mind.
I think what defines a superhero is a combination of the characterstics of the individual character and the setting itself and that part of the defining part of it is that most superheroes are exceptional for a number of reasons, one of the key ones being that they do something that not just anyone can up and decide to do one day. Even Batman spent years in preperation for the day he'd fight crime.
Is TSW a superhero game? I don't think so. I think it straddles a middle ground between superhero, Lovecraftian, and secret agent style settings.
Could the player characters in TSW be called superheroes? I think one of the NPCs in the game said it best.
"I knew you'd show up. First zombies. Then the government agents roll in. Now superheroes."
I think TSW characters are just X-men rejects. Or X-men/mutants that don't have a secret society like the X-men to join. So they end up getting recruited by secret government societies instead. The game itself though is still far off from being a super hero game. Most of the primary focus is on guns. The super natural side of it doesn't even come into the game till later levels. In comparison to champions though, champions is the ultimate super hero game because it features basically every type of hero you could possibly imagine, spandex, or no spandex. All set up in a world where everything bad that could happen from a villainous standpoint usually does. Which makes millennium city 10 times more dangerous than anything marvel or DC have in their arsenal. Batman will never have to worry about Magneto coming into his city and blowing the entire thing to bits, he's a human character who deals with petty crime, bank robberies, and human experiments. He doesn't have to throw his batterang at a demigod, but it doesn't make him any less of a super hero.
Actually on my side of the fence My heroes look like this.
Or this.
Or Fanfics
I enjoy anti-heroes. The darker, the grittier, the realer the better. Especially when they use all the powers in the universe to fight, but a simple bullet puts someone down. I dunno who makes their heroes look like Dr. Who, but you at least have to have some sort of costume. As long as its not spandex, and realistically battle ready, its all good.
Also Dr. Who could totally become an X-Men
None of those are Marvel/DC characters. Your argument is invalid. /Trollface
And Dr. Who would have to become a mutant before he can become an X-Men.
I think TSW characters are just X-men rejects. Or X-men/mutants that don't have a secret society like the X-men to join. So they end up getting recruited by secret government societies instead.
First, they're not mutants. Second, all player characters are members of secret societies, some of which run governments, not the other way around.
In comparison to champions though, champions is the ultimate super hero game because it features basically every type of hero you could possibly imagine, spandex, or no spandex. All set up in a world where everything bad that could happen from a villainous standpoint usually does. Which makes millennium city 10 times more dangerous than anything marvel or DC have in their arsenal.
TSW doesn't take place in one city. It covers multiple parts of the world, similar to CO and the very first quest you get (which I've spent weeks on instead of just a few minutes like you do with quests in other games and requires travelling to multiple zones to accomplish a fairly wide variety of tasks) revolves around stopping someone from destroying the world.
Batman will never have to worry about Magneto coming into his city and blowing the entire thing to bits, he's a human character who deals with petty crime, bank robberies, and human experiments. He doesn't have to throw his batterang at a demigod, but it doesn't make him any less of a super hero.
Don't know why this was brought up. Never said he wasn't a superhero.
It's always entertaining reading threads that go in the direction this one has. I don't think TSW is a super hero game but, if you look at the characters in it individually, many of them could qualify for the title super hero.
It's also interesting to see how people try to define what is, and isn't, a superhero given that the definitions of it can be so arbitrary and contradictory. For almost any claim someone tries to make saying that one character isn't a superhero, someone else can point to a character created by one of the major comic publishers that does actually fit that definition and is treated as a superhero by that publisher.
If being part of an army means you're not a superhero, does that mean no one in the Lantern Corps is one?
Someone said that Goku isn't a superhero (I don't think he is one actually) but, let's look at that. Being from a destroyed world found on Earth as a small child with the potential to wield an amazing amount of power that fights to protect his friends and the world he now calls home. I think there's a couple parallels between him and Superman.
One person mentioned a nemesis. Well, in TSW, your first enemy is another anima infused being that plots to destroy the world. In fact, the two of you are powerful enough that he acknowledges that he's not even going to try killing you because it would be too much work, so instead, you're forced to try to stop his plans to bring ruin to the world while he tries to delay you from doing it in time rather than just attempting to kill each other outright. Sounds like some of the conflicts you find in comic books to me.
I also got the impression that someone thought being a magic user disqualifies you from being one but, Scarlet Witch, Morgan Le Fey, Talisman, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Raven, and Dr. Strange come to mind.
I think what defines a superhero is a combination of the characterstics of the individual character and the setting itself and that part of the defining part of it is that most superheroes are exceptional for a number of reasons, one of the key ones being that they do something that not just anyone can up and decide to do one day. Even Batman spent years in preperation for the day he'd fight crime.
Is TSW a superhero game? I don't think so. I think it straddles a middle ground between superhero, Lovecraftian, and secret agent style settings.
Could the player characters in TSW be called superheroes? I think one of the NPCs in the game said it best.
"I knew you'd show up. First zombies. Then the government agents roll in. Now superheroes."
Having played with TSW a little I really don't see why so many people want to consider the characters superheroes. Metahumans maybe, but superheroes? No, just no. This is starting to sound like people are just making huge leaps in logic to try to sell the idea to another crowd.
Having played with TSW a little I really don't see why so many people want to consider the characters superheroes. Metahumans maybe, but superheroes? No, just no. This is starting to sound like people are just making huge leaps in logic to try to sell the idea to another crowd.
AntiHero. Personal Gain, add in edgyness, add in distraught past, add in a reason to fight for said past, have person do heroic things they don't even realize they're doing while pursuing their own selfish gain, create AntiHero. Gungrave and spawn have almost identical plot schemes. Usually involving revenge, saving the princess, or "finding themselves". Along the way to their ultimate goals they do heroic things while at the same time trying to seem like villains.
Hard exterior, soft interior.
Pretty much. It's why I think what defines superheroes is their setting just as much as the character themself and think the player characters in TSW could be called that even though the game can't. Take any one of them and put them in a setting where they act openly instead of trying to hide their abilities from the rest of the world and there really isn't anything that says they're not one.
Pretty much. It's why I think what defines superheroes is their setting just as much as the character themself and think the player characters in TSW could be called that even though the game can't. Take any one of them and put them in a setting where they act openly instead of trying to hide their abilities from the rest of the world and there really isn't anything that says they're not one.
Comments
If Buy-to-Play doesn't work we will soon know as TSW will have to abandon it, just as they abandoned subscription.
I pity the people who were tricked into buying life-times for TSW and can sympathise as to why they might be so grouchy, having been treated so shabbily.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
When I think of superheroes, I think of this:
Not this:
TSW is Urban Fantasy, not Comic Book Superheroes.
Well you may not have read, for example, any WildStorms and Vertigo comics.
There are more superheroes in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your comic collection.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
First off, the "cowboy with a gun and magical staff" is Harry Dresden.
Second, I'm fully aware of Vertigo and Wildstorm titles. But they do not fit the typical mold of superpowers that allow one to juggle planets and striking spandexed costumes. Vertigo and Wildstorm are a subset, not the mainstream.
@Quincy-St-Moth's PRIMUS page
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
In a "supers" game or setting, there is no "veil" or masquerade everyone is dancing around. Superheroes save the day and then are interviewed by the news reporter.
TSW is going for something different.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
A few other tidbits I discovered through playing; Abilities are broken up into an inner ring and outer ring, (you must complete a particular set's inner ring to unlock its outer ring). When you do this, you get some clothing that goes along with the set - like a camo jacket for assault rifles. You also get clothing from your faction whenever you reach a new tier within their organization.
As far as "supers or not" goes, I think of superheroes in terms of power levels. Wolverine doesn't always wear his X-Men uniform, and he would fit perfectly into the TSW universe if he were in plain clothes. The same could be said for Batman, (sans the Bat-vehicles), Scarlet Witch, (there's even a chaos magic set w/ powers dealing w/ probabilities and such), etc. It's just not the upper levels of power and flashy costumes that you'll find in TSW.
Regardless, the sluggishness of travel and having to buy all abilities in order to get higher ones, is annoying. The lack of a "try before you buy" system in TSW also means that once you click to up that skill or abilities, you are committed. Still, once you get a hang of it, skill and ability points pour in, so it's not too long before you can continue the progression the way you wanted.
One huge plus for TSW, though, is that pretty much any power set you choose has some way of healing yourself, so you don't have to feel left out if you went with one weapon over the other. At least one ability in each set also builds "resources" that are used to cast powers for both your equipped weapons as well.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
how far did you get to? i went as far as the sirens song. and look for the guys foot prints
Well, I'm at step 11 or 12 of 18 on the main storyline quest. I completed the academy area, the carnival area, and just doing the lighthouse now. I've kinda been wandering around, though, so I haven't been focused on the main quest. I bought all of the 1st tiers for assault rifle, sword, and blood magic, and far into 2 of the outer circle sets for assault rifle. I'm using QL6 gear.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
nice
Harry's borderline in my book. He's kind of a John Constantine - who apparently is Justice League material now - and Harry does stuff like this when he's not imitating the Undertaker:
Of course, Jim Butcher also played City of Heroes.
I really like assault rifle. Lot's of leech effects and HoT's. I really haven't messed around w/ blood magic that much - only using a QL4 focus that i got as a random drop and really using it more for the heals.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Secret identity has a different connotation than simply having an identity you keep secret. It's like any spy having a secret identity - that's not really the case, they're just not really supposed to reveal any persona to the public.
When they say underlying theme or motif they mean more of the personalized traits thing, like bat-ears, spider-spandex, and super-spit-curl, than a story/genre theme. You could argue Dragon Enforcer, but then you're just a militant member rather than a "superhero."
Rogues gallery usually refers to a collection of villains consistent with... I'm going to say this poorly, but I can't really think it out less vaguely.... the world in which the hero operates. I know that technically means TSW as well, but it's more along the lines of recurring, "colorful," characters personalized in some way to the hero, like Joker, Penguin, Croc, etc. They are very Batman, and generally don't function independently outside of his world very well. They also have some kind of more personal connection to the hero, like Green Goblin killing Gwen Stacie (spoilers?
Re: employment, you're more of an independent soldier. The idea is the general division between the personal life and the rigors of it, like keeping a job, and finding a balance with, or using it towards, the crime-fighting/life-saving.
Backstory - sure, but IMO, mostly because backstories are usually kinda not good, and TSW manages to completely.... generificate? everyone's backstory (which IMO, removes the personal backstory that's important to the superheroe's motivation).
A lot of this is personal opinion, and I can see why folks would disagree, I'm just saying there are certain, admittedly vague, elements usually involved, and while the letter can be stretched, upon close examination it's easier to see the subtleties.
Consider the general idea of a Cop - strong moral compass, fights crime, special abilities/training in order to do so, employed with minimal supervision that allows him to fight crime, deals consistently with repeat offenders, and may have had an inciting event that motivated him to put on the badge, and the underlying motif of being a boy in blue(or whatever), of which each force has a distinctive version. Has a partner and family, works with the DA's office, and has a headquarters. Yet they are typically not seen as a "superhero." (disclaimer: this is not a judgement or moral whatever about how they aren't brave or heroes for protecting the peace, etc.)
While that's awesome, I think this is more accurate
Well then, if we're taking the assumption that everyone with supernatural powers are superheroes...
Then this is a superhero:
This is a superhero:
This is a superhero:
This is a superhero:
Somehow, secretly, all this time, all of these stories were really about superhero universes. It seems all the times I played D&D, I was really RPing a superhero and not an adventurer in a fantastic land. I guess that makes WoW the most successful superhero game ever.
Then you simply do not understand the concept of super-hero.
In EACH of the three faction beginnings, it's explicitly and without question explained to you that your character is no special snowflake. You're a cog in an army. Nothing more, nothing less. If you fall, there's more waiting behind you to take up the fight.
That isn't super. In any stretch of imagination. A bee crawls down your throat to give you magical powers. Whoopie. Those powers are severely limited to only being able to use them effectively with a focus. Not very super.
Sure, you become almost impossible to kill(the game even tells you that) but then...so is every other soldier in each respective faction's army. Nothing super there.
Urban fantasy. Kinda like Cyberpunk. Or Steampunk. Not a superhero game. At all.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Seems like everyone has their own definition of what being a superhero is.
If viewed like that, then no, they probably wouldn't be considered superheroes.
But, you can also view them as:
Anima-infused beings with near limitless physical and mental attributes trying to save the world from the demons of hell and filth-infested entities.
In that case, greater than normal beings fighting for the good of mankind = superhero.
Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
Handle @brayv
And, as I said, in that case, WoW is the top superhero MMO on the market.
If you define superhumans only by the narrowest of definitions, by the very middle of the mainstream, then of course you won't agree with people who have read and appreciated the wider genre, which includes various cowboy superheroes, wizards and superhero characters like John Constantine.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
And if we broaden it to everything with supernatural powers like you people insist, this becomes a superhero:
No, that's just people trying to shoehorn every possible idea into the theme of "superhero" to try to recruit people to their game.
Honestly, people. Just because you have powers does not make you a superhero. Just because you've been in a comic book does not make you a superhero. Goku is super. He is a hero. He's not a superhero. Puff the Magic dragon was a dragon! He could live forever! That's a superpower right? No, not a superhero either.
Seriously, you guys can argue until you're blue in the face (super power! you're a superhero!), but just having powers does not make you a super hero. Honestly at the end of this whole conversation, we're going to have people debating that Jesus Christ was a superhero because he could walk on water and turn water into wine (make that beer and we'll talk) (BUT COULD HE WALK ON WINE?!). Super Heroes are people with super powers that appear in superhero comic books. Man riding a dinosaur is not a superhero. Iron Giant was not a superhero (even though he idolized Superman! Irony! Iron Irony!) Merlin was not a superhero! Hitler was not a superhero! The Chinese emperor guy that had a million clay statues made to guard him WHEN HE'S EFFING DEAD was not a superhero! They did not find a unicorn in China! Sherlock Holmes was not a super hero! The Doctor from that stupid show Doctor Who is not a superhero just because he has a magic box that he can travel time with! Bilbo was not a superhero because he could turn invisible and mistakenly win a riddle contest! The Lost Skeleton of Cadavera could command a woman made from miscellaneous forest creatures to bring him an Amish terrarium... NOT A SUPERHERO!!! OBI WAN KENOBI SAID THESE AIN'T YOUR DAMN DROIDS, HES NOT A SUPER HERO! LIGHTNING MCQUEEN WON THE RACE! NOT A SUPERHERO! ICARUS FLEW TOO HIGH TO THE SUN ON STUPID WAX WINGS, NOT A SUPER HERO! COLUMBO COULD SOLVE THE EFF OUT OF EVERY DAMN CASE! NOT A SUPERHERO!!! ORGASMO... okay. GARGAMEL COULD RAVAGE THE LANDS LIKE NEVER BEFORE, TOTAL DESTRUCTION FROM MOUNTAIN TO SHORE! NOOOOOT AAAAAA SUUUUPERHERO!!! OR VILLAIN, WHATEVER. CHEF RAMSAY SAVES RESTAURANTS! NOT A SUPERHERO!!! ZOLTAR FROM BIG TURNED TOM HANKS INTO AN ADULT! HE WAS NOT A DAMN SUPER HERO
Quit trying to shoehorn whatever you're into nowadays into the superhero genre! Nobody's buying it!
This is a more considered statement on whether TSW is superhero or not.
People may not be widely read but there are times when even Wonder Woman gave up her costume and adventured as Diana Prince. Take the recent Marvel superhero films, even these were populated with non-costumed characters active in a superhero world.
Superheroes, in reference to another comment, can also be part of armies. The Green Lantern corps are both military and police, every one potentially has the same abilities but the powers they use vary dependent on the Latern's interests.
What seals it for me is how characters in CO and TSW deals with zombie hoards. Both MMOs have them, you deal with them in pretty much the same way - you just pile in or take them on at range.
Compare and contrast this with the Walking Dead TV or comic series.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
ARE YOU SURE???
That sure looks like Cap's star-spangled outfit right there. And there's Tony Stark in his suit of Iron Man armor. And hey! I don't think anyone outside Asgard dresses like that! Must be Thor! Oh, and look Black Widow in a sexy catsuit; I don't think any other women dress like that unless they're into BDSM! And Hulk is Hulk!
Seriously, just take a look at what I get when I Google "superhero!" I don't see any dudes in trench coats fighting zombies there. No, I see capes and spandex.
What was the topic of the thread? Oh Secret World.
Lacks all Champions travel powers, all the freedom of motion in combat, lacks any
reason for alting, options in style are like Benneton throw aways from 1990s.
No physics on clothing but the boobs jiggle ever so gently. Go figure.
The worst part of Champions free form ,dealing with all the power choices you don't want to pick but have to just to unlock other stuff, is constantly thrown in your face for the entire run of the game in TSW. Oh you 'leveled up' ten times and stashed tons of points? You get to go shopping and buy complete crap that doesn't improve your game play experience at all. In fact you will not be using ANY of these power choices later in your game, maybe as soon as you've chosen them and forever after.
You can wear an eight foot staff or the local phone book of the living
dead on your back, show everyone you know how to read and carry logs.
Did you pick up six foot long bazooka? put that on your back to, you know you made a female toon so you could glare at the bazooka butt for hours.
Need to get from the lighthouse to the far end of spooky beach?
Why drive? Vehicles are obviously only for super heroes in super hero games or gang members in gang games, or power armor guys in power armor planet invasion games. Certainly no non superhero lightning bolt wielding magical ak47 team healing normal person could drive a car or ride a bicycle, or float merrily merrily down the stream.
Oh well, at least it has Jeffrey Combs.
Last time I rented a movie with him in it was 1997, I got a terrible throat infection followed by psoriasis that has never gone away, all the while Blockbuster was hounding me for two weeks: "Nextnametaken, please return The Necronomicon".
I have no idea how that makes TSW not being amazingly fun 'ok', but it does.
I guess things could be worse, right?
I did this one once. Got a face full of "WELL MLLLOOOHYEAH WHAT GOOGLE THINKS IS A SUPERHERO IS NOT WHAT A REAL SUPERHERO IS MGLLLLLAAAAHHHHHHH" and then some cthulhu or something. Everything that is not ordinary is a superhero. Super Mario Bros. Piranha Plant - Super Hero extraordinaire.
I wouldn't google such a word expecting good results...especially from google. If there was a movie that came out called "SuperHero" google images would be completely messed up and full of movie posters if you googled the term. But I did actually google it just now, and the only pictures I found were from Marvel, and DC comics characters....thats it, there was 1 picture of Todd Mcfarlanes spawn at the very bottom, but thats it. According to google, no other superhero's exist except for the avengers and the justice league.
Super hero stuff always work like that, the guy who has the most posters, and TV airtime always gets called the hero first. But then you look at a picture like this.
And all the guys in the back get overshadowed by SPIDERMANS BIG HEAD!
"Oh I have tons of toys on the shelves look at meeee! I'm the most popular hero, the true example of a superhero don't pay attention to that other guy in the back, he's not a hero at all, his efforts of superhero-ness and saving lives should be ignored because HE DOESN'T HAVE A SHOE DEAL FOR 5 YEAR OLDS.
^^^^^Annoyances like that make villains. Stupid spiderman.
Only thing wrong with that picture is that Wolverine is in it. He's not a superhero. He's a pointy emo.
Spider-Man is in the front because he's a tried-and-tested superhero, the very definition of the term. Wolverine is a piece of asscrap and does not deserve a shoe deal AT ALL.
Just because you prefer a darky broody emoey hero because he's all "meh!" and "blah!" and his hair covers one of his eyes does not make that guy a better hero than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is a damn staple of the SuperHero genre, an idol, the damned DEFINITION of a SuperHero.
Don't try to play that down. Spider-Man is one of the most quintessential and most definitive superheroes.
If you're going to argue with the guy that has the most poster-time, you're talking about trendy-**** Wolverine. Not Spider-Man.
On top of that... It would only take three panels for Spider-Man to turn Wolverine into a balloon poodle.
TRUE HERO.
Re
spect
walk
WHAT DID YOU SAY?
I believe it comes down to old timers saying, if you don't wear spandex, and your buttcheeks aren't squeezed and spread by a leather thong that goes over your stockings then you are not a super hero.
In some parts of this forum, you have to run around looking like this, to be considered a super hero.
"BUT MAI SUIT GIVES ME POWAR!!!?!?!!!"
Coulda fooled me, I thought it was a wedgie.:rolleyes:
Well yes, of course, but your side of the fence is saying that these are the real superheroes:
https://www.google.com/search?q=doctor+who+cosplay&hl=en&tbo=d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=3mn2UNroEuiSiALBu4HgBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1118&bih=785
Hey correct! The thing you like also has embarrassing idiots waving your flag around!
Don't act like you're exempt. :P
*Biffs Biff in the Biff*
Calm down. Breathe. Relax. Here, have a xanax. Or five.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Caliga.
Superhero.
See's Caliga... starts franctically hunting for remote volume control.
from mine..
puppy which ate magic homework- not a hero.
Thankyou for the COMPLETELY unwanted picture caused by the comment about spandex...o.O
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Interesting. Does that mean that you don't consider a vast amount of the characters in super hero comics to not be super heroes?
There's no capes but, I've already seen a couple pretty outlandish costumes in the game, including a very well done remake of the Shoveller.
I found this interesting because, to me, there really isn't much difference at all in the actual mechanics of combat in any MMOs.
If you stop and think about it, there are a lot of similarities in the combat of CO and TSW (excluding when you're using travel powers). In both, you're basically trying to balance the costs of some sort of meter and it's recovery against the expenditure of that meter. Both of them very heavily focus on synergies between the various powers you have as well if you want to optimize. Neither of them requires it if you stick to run of the mill content but, to accomplish anything resembling a challenge, it is needed.
The only real difference between combat in CO and TSW, imo, is that CO allows the use of travel powers but, also has powers that root you in place while they're being used.
There's also the fact that it had the shadow of Conan to deal with, considering that game did do fairly well at it's release in terms of sales but, left a large number of people disappointed so, this time around, most people were standoffish due to not wanting to go through that again.
This last comment is pretty laughable for a number of reasons. One of those being that the only method of leveling that CO has that TSW lacks is alerts. IMO, those get pretty boring pretty fast seeing as it's just rushing in to pummel a single boss plus a few lackeys in a minute or two before zoning out to do zone into another alert and do it again.
As far as which one actually has a richer lore goes... Here's a small sampling of where TSW draws it's lore from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_mythology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_folklore
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agartha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore_of_Romania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati
Just to name a few. :biggrin:
Not saying CO's lore is bad. Just think it's pretty silly to say that the lore of a PnP game is richer than the entirety of real world myths and religion.
Thor is not a superhero. He's a fantasy character based on Nordic mythology.
Tony Stark is not a superhero. He's a guy with no super powers in a suit.
Black Widow is a spy--not a superhero (and spies and agent types dress like that when they go out on missions).
The Hulk is a scientist that turns into a huge green monster and wears no spandex or recognizible costumes on either form--not a superhero.
The only guy that barely passes for a superhero is the guy in the middle--because he has (barely) superhuman strength and physical conditioning, and wears spandex (sort of) and a recognizible outfit. But what does he uses to fight? A lame **** shield :rolleyes: --barely a superhero.
/trollface
It's also interesting to see how people try to define what is, and isn't, a superhero given that the definitions of it can be so arbitrary and contradictory. For almost any claim someone tries to make saying that one character isn't a superhero, someone else can point to a character created by one of the major comic publishers that does actually fit that definition and is treated as a superhero by that publisher.
If being part of an army means you're not a superhero, does that mean no one in the Lantern Corps is one?
Someone said that Goku isn't a superhero (I don't think he is one actually) but, let's look at that. Being from a destroyed world found on Earth as a small child with the potential to wield an amazing amount of power that fights to protect his friends and the world he now calls home. I think there's a couple parallels between him and Superman.
One person mentioned a nemesis. Well, in TSW, your first enemy is another anima infused being that plots to destroy the world. In fact, the two of you are powerful enough that he acknowledges that he's not even going to try killing you because it would be too much work, so instead, you're forced to try to stop his plans to bring ruin to the world while he tries to delay you from doing it in time rather than just attempting to kill each other outright. Sounds like some of the conflicts you find in comic books to me.
I also got the impression that someone thought being a magic user disqualifies you from being one but, Scarlet Witch, Morgan Le Fey, Talisman, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Raven, and Dr. Strange come to mind.
I think what defines a superhero is a combination of the characterstics of the individual character and the setting itself and that part of the defining part of it is that most superheroes are exceptional for a number of reasons, one of the key ones being that they do something that not just anyone can up and decide to do one day. Even Batman spent years in preperation for the day he'd fight crime.
Is TSW a superhero game? I don't think so. I think it straddles a middle ground between superhero, Lovecraftian, and secret agent style settings.
Could the player characters in TSW be called superheroes? I think one of the NPCs in the game said it best.
"I knew you'd show up. First zombies. Then the government agents roll in. Now superheroes."
Actually on my side of the fence My heroes look like this.
Or this.
Or Fanfics
I enjoy anti-heroes. The darker, the grittier, the realer the better. Especially when they use all the powers in the universe to fight, but a simple bullet puts someone down. I dunno who makes their heroes look like Dr. Who, but you at least have to have some sort of costume. As long as its not spandex, and realistically battle ready, its all good.
Also Dr. Who could totally become an X-Men
I think TSW characters are just X-men rejects. Or X-men/mutants that don't have a secret society like the X-men to join. So they end up getting recruited by secret government societies instead. The game itself though is still far off from being a super hero game. Most of the primary focus is on guns. The super natural side of it doesn't even come into the game till later levels. In comparison to champions though, champions is the ultimate super hero game because it features basically every type of hero you could possibly imagine, spandex, or no spandex. All set up in a world where everything bad that could happen from a villainous standpoint usually does. Which makes millennium city 10 times more dangerous than anything marvel or DC have in their arsenal. Batman will never have to worry about Magneto coming into his city and blowing the entire thing to bits, he's a human character who deals with petty crime, bank robberies, and human experiments. He doesn't have to throw his batterang at a demigod, but it doesn't make him any less of a super hero.
None of those are Marvel/DC characters. Your argument is invalid.
/Trollface
And Dr. Who would have to become a mutant before he can become an X-Men.
Precisely.
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Also. Gungrave is a superhero now?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHA*breathes*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA...
http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/06/11_x-men_who_arent_actually_mutants.php
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That's a very thin line there.
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AntiHero. Personal Gain, add in edgyness, add in distraught past, add in a reason to fight for said past, have person do heroic things they don't even realize they're doing while pursuing their own selfish gain, create AntiHero. Gungrave and spawn have almost identical plot schemes. Usually involving revenge, saving the princess, or "finding themselves". Along the way to their ultimate goals they do heroic things while at the same time trying to seem like villains.
Hard exterior, soft interior.
Pretty much. It's why I think what defines superheroes is their setting just as much as the character themself and think the player characters in TSW could be called that even though the game can't. Take any one of them and put them in a setting where they act openly instead of trying to hide their abilities from the rest of the world and there really isn't anything that says they're not one.
Actually, that is a very good point.
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