Here's an even better solution. Just have everything drop Recognition tokens and we'll all continue to grab our loot from the recognition vendors. Maybe the higher difficulties drop more tokens. In the end, we all have access to the same loot.
One of the things I appreciate about CO is how little focus there is on loot here. To me it's hilarious that these threads always seem to end up being about "casuals" being worried they'll be left out of gear drops... can anyone point out to me any part of the game other than the Unity dailys that is actually about acquiring gear in the endgame?
/Signed
Recog tokens are my favorite type of reward, and I think this is an excellent idea for how to handle this.
That's the problem. I don't expect PWE Cryptic to make that distinction.
Also, ESPECIALLY in a game like CO, there's something to be said about keeping players who don't min max or aren't the best on the rails for gear, if not at the same rate as everyone else. Given the majority of characters you'll find running about the world of CO are thematic to an extent, if not to the point of being downright crippling, much of that isn't even a case of bad build.
You have to consider that progression is not in any way directly related to difficulty. These two things can operate completely and totally independent of each other. The not best player with the not best build is still a paying customer, and when it takes them longer, assuming they're not left out of the fun in games period, you risk pissing them off. You've gotta be really freaking careful with that stuff, because it can drive away customers both directly and indirectly through breeding a bitter, hateful in game atmosphere.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Here's an even better solution. Just have everything drop Recognition tokens and we'll all continue to grab our loot from the recognition vendors. Maybe the higher difficulties drop more tokens. In the end, we all have access to the same loot.
Awesome idea
Like a Normal mode 5man instance run would get you 5 Tokens.
And a Elite mode 5man instance run would get you 8 Tokens
In any case, i couldnt care less about gear at this point, as more points seem to be just doing near nothing at the stat-caps. Im sticking with 3 slot gear until i see a reason to go to 4 slots (*cough* difficulty increase *cough*)
That's the problem. I don't expect PWE Cryptic to make that distinction.
I think they know that costume drops and gear are different. As far as being distinct... gear is dumb easy to get, and costume drops take hours,days,months,years of farming.
Also, ESPECIALLY in a game like CO, there's something to be said about keeping players who don't min max or aren't the best on the rails for gear, if not at the same rate as everyone else. Given the majority of characters you'll find running about the world of CO are thematic to an extent, if not to the point of being downright crippling, much of that isn't even a case of bad build.
You know how I keep mentioning that a lot of folks on your side of the argument keep convincing themselves that we're trying to make every part of the game so difficult and gear so hard to get that you won't be able to play it anymore? This is what I mean. If you just stop pretending that we're trying to do that, the problem goes away.
You have to consider that progression is not in any way directly related to difficulty. These two things can operate completely and totally independent of each other. The not best player with the not best build is still a paying customer, and when it takes them longer, assuming they're not left out of the fun in games period, you risk pissing them off. You've gotta be really freaking careful with that stuff, because it can drive away customers both directly and indirectly through breeding a bitter, hateful in game atmosphere.
This game has no progression, and we're not asking for progression, so I don't see the issue here.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
You know how I keep mentioning that a lot of folks on your side of the argument keep convincing themselves that we're trying to make every part of the game so difficult and gear so hard to get that you won't be able to play it anymore? This is what I mean. If you just stop pretending that we're trying to do that, the problem goes away.
The even more interesting question is why would casual players who allegedly have no interest in gear grinds and don't even have the best gear in the game right now even need this hypothetical uber gear we're going to hypothetically lock behind Elite instances to run casual content?
Do this, team up in a five man team, set the difficulty to Elite, go into a mission your level,
make a demo_record movie of "blazing through five man content solo".
Then come back and erase your whole OP and admit that you are full of guano.
Try not playing like a chump, grows some balls, take on a whole room at a time
for a change, instead of one meager mob at once.
Try removing your leveled gear and using something less Mary Sue.
I'm running around at level 30+ with my level 14 items still on, game is plenty
challenging, I'm bleeding everywhere.
You want the game to be harder for you, then you have to take action and make it more difficult yourself.
Is that too hard?
^ a thousand times. Couldn't have said it better myself. The game is full of options. USE them and don't ruin the fun for the ones that are actually having it.
Also, I'm seeing some mobs dropping something like 5 Questionite. Some are per mob, some are per NPC.
So, put all of the fluff, gear, items up for sale in the various stores (BoE please) and let us gather / farm for that which we WANT. The greater the difficulty, the greater the reward is pretty standard expectation. Hence the need for more tokens at each higher difficulty.
And, of course, do a FULL OUT, Item/Device pass. Balance this stuff, sorta. Cooldowns, utility, etc. There's a reason why you see Eroded Shards, Contained Radiation, Thunderbolt Wand, etc at the low end of the pricing in the AH. While stuff like Eruption, Ice Grenades, Pheremones, etc are on the high end. Heck, if all you do is just say the low end stuff costs "X" number of Recog tokens and the "better items" cost substantially more, that's about all you "need" to do (else I'm going to get flamed to death:eek:).
As to ELITE mode, many have soloed the APs/comics/etc in ELITE and had little extra difficulty from Normal mode. Yet, when you get a full team and do them in NORMAL mode, it can be very difficult because of the extra + tougher NPCs. So, why isn't ELITE all about "more + tougher" NPCs, not just slightly tougher ones?
Plus, I agree that they should be varied and have better AI. At least have some try to remain "at range". The Brickbuster debuff is a good example, too. Stuns, holds, immunities, etc. Put all of that into ELITE so you can't just have the <flavor of the day build> rofl stomping everything using the same 1 or 2 offensive powers.
.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=- "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
The even more interesting question is why would casual players who allegedly have no interest in gear grinds and don't even have the best gear in the game right now even need this hypothetical uber gear we're going to hypothetically lock behind Elite instances to run casual content?
Still, Recog Vendors FTW!
I also think Recognition tokens would be a great idea. +1 to Smoo. Your logical argument, on the other hand is being delivered on internet forum. Most everyone wants new stuff, better stuff and shinier stuff. It's wired into the primate part of our brains. Need has nothing to do with it.
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
As i expected, and there you have witnessed simply rage because of the past, with absolutely no proper arguement but just bringing despite to the topic. The same of a few who simply have a grudge and have gotten away with a flurry of insults for years without being properly moderated when real on-topic business is trying to be conducted.
You guys couldnt have made it anymore apparent to everyone else how mature you and that your arguement against this is quite pathetic and grudge based.
Grudge based XD I have no grudge against you. Snakey you also dont need to tell us who you are we all knew (my furry radar is strong ). I think your an alright chap but on this matter your a bit wrong. As you will find I have said in this very thread an extra difficulty is a good idea. That bit is all good.
Now the wrong bit the ranting about the casual players dragging this game into the grave. Wrong for over a year now the casual players have been SAVING this game. I'm a casual player and I have spent hundreds on this game.
You need to research a little bit harder your only half right on this topic.
Also arguement is written argument.
Now to quote yourself Lick me ima chocolate \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Well, i still stand to my beliefs whether you like it or not.. As for me been foolish, i suppose rage makes you foolish, and i have no regrets posting how i feel about it.. Simple.. Not everyone is supposed to agree with everyone, yes? :cool:
No one expects everyone to agree with everyone else. Lying, or misrepresenting the point of those with whom you disagree is something else entirely.
As for percentages, where i come from, 100% increase means double,
The OP didnt suggest a 100% increase. In fact he clearly stated that Normal would stay the same in his suggestion. My apologies for assuming that the problem was a lack of math skills when apparently it was a failure of reading comprehension instead.
not nothing.. At least titotito333999 was nice enough to clarify his post and what the OP wants to say instead of releasing kindergarten nonsense at my face like you two are doing.. Not everyone uses English as a natural language.. It shows someone's age and class though, doesn't it? At least i attend kindergarten, i'm not a 2 year old like you two..
So i rest my case if i'm wrong on this subject, as numbers vary from place to place.. Heck, US uses feet, we use meters..
Friend, don't accuse someone for something you don't have.. And since i lack a mind as you say,
I said nothing of the sort. Perhaps you might want to work on your reading comprehension.
would you please explain to me where exactly i called titotito333999 mindless,
I never claimed that you called titotito333999 mindless. You might want to work on your reading comprehension. Did you not read or understand your own post where you used the term mindless to describe those who want more difficulty ?
as i don't see any insults on my post.. Speaking of which, learn how to read, as the XCom comment wasn't addressed at him,
I never claimed that it was. You might want to work on your reading comprehension.
was a general one..
If i did insult him however, i apologize..
As for you two, it's really funny to see you trying to look cool by assaulting someone..
If you are going to cal others out for not reading the OP while quoting it in such a fashion as to prove that you don't understand what you are reading you can expect to be called on it.
a Challenge is a good thing, but not for every time, and especially not if it's forced on you..
Yes, and this is a thread about OPTIONAL, "difficulty," increase (in quotes because I don't really consider this to be a good means of increasing difficulty) implemented in a fashion that would not affect the gameplay of those who don't desire it.
Personally I disagree with the OP's approach to increased difficulty (as stated earlier in the thread) but the idea of providing options so that more people can enjoy the game is a positive thing IMO.
Only way of obtaining is by completing things deemed "Hard" by their peers(See 1).
Visually pleasing in any which way.
Produced by certain entities that they enjoy being around.
That being said as much as I would enjoy razor-brand cereal, I also enjoy my stale, safe cereal too!
Also, Will/Where the segregation occur?
Lack-luster rewards or FANTASTIC rewards with little use to repeat content once you have it(other than the fact that you will be repeating the 'challenge' again)? BoE or BoP?
Recog...Mmmk more currency...right.......Will there be a seller who dishes out brand new shinies costing a combination of all the ****ING *ehm* currency that we currently have? Or will it be just more ****ING currency that you collect and rot.
I think they know that costume drops and gear are different. As far as being distinct... gear is dumb easy to get, and costume drops take hours,days,months,years of farming.
A: You'd think that, but you'd be wrong. Proof is in the mistakes already made. Made when we had better development, none the less.
B: Time and difficulty are not the same.
See, this is what I mean, I'm not even going to go on replying to the rest because it's basically you putting words in my mouth and having general misconceptions about various things.
For starters, the game does have progression, even if you chose to ignore it. It may not be the best tiered, and it may not be the best designed, but it DOES exists in some manner.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
^ a thousand times. Couldn't have said it better myself. The game is full of options. USE them and don't ruin the fun for the ones that are actually having it.
Sure, I'll bite (again). Where is the option to make the mobs behave more intelligently, have a more diverse range of abilities, etc...
I'm sure someone is still entranced by the tactic of breaking line of sight repeatedly, but some of us are hoping for a bit more. But by all means, please list these options. You did type optionS... implying there's more than one. So one option was gimping yourself.. what are the others?
A: You'd think that, but you'd be wrong. Proof is in the mistakes already made. Made when we had better development, none the less.
B: Time and difficulty are not the same.
See, this is what I mean, I'm not even going to go on replying to the rest because it's basically you putting words in my mouth and having general misconceptions about various things.
For starters, the game does have progression, even if you chose to ignore it. It may not be the best tiered, and it may not be the best designed, but it DOES exists in some manner.
A: Yes, they did things differently in the past. They're not doing them that way now. Pointing out how they did things in the past only serves to provide contrast to how differently they're handling gear now. Thank you for that.
B: Not sure why you're pointing that out... apples and oranges are different too, we having fun yet?
So the game has progression? Neat, could you provide some sort of tiered list? Because as far as I can tell, progression in this game looks something like this...
Tier 1: Level to 40
Tier 2: Unity missions, all the lairs, all the alerts.
I look forward to you pointing me in the direction of the next tier, thank you in advance for your assistance, I've been wondering for a while what the next step was but so far no one has been able to point it out.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Hmm just remembered this.. Shoulda said earlier but...
One of my failed Andrith attempts was made with a serious tank, Protecter Mastery and lots of other defensive stuff. The flaw in the build was my inability to adapt to a post Enrage nerf game. Once upon a time my enrage would have boosted my Electrical attacks as well as my Iron Cyclone and Haymakers a lot more.
As it was I didn't have the damage output needed to put the mobs down before they clawed me down and I lost all my stars chewing my way thru Andrith. Finally unable to face several four golem mobs I called it a day.
Yet I was able to destroy the Hyrg Coruscator without too much difficulty. I believe that had I gotten through to Vik I could have taken him poor build and all it had a lot of healing and even I can block a single axis of attack when needed.
Dealing with multiple threats is to me a heck of a lot harder than any SINGLE BOSS. I have suggested on PTS I think it was dividing an end lair boss into 2 or more lesser guys and seeing how that goes. Therakiel divided by 5 (but minus the eyebeam) will produce more threats and more DPS, more opportunity to get killed through poor situational awareness. I think it would interesting to try this out somehow (don't ask me how).
As I said mobs can and do kill even my toughest builds but maybe I don't build very well. While it is certain that the game is not particularly challenging on the whole and that serious game players would laugh at the 5 man elite lair. I think overloading with threats is the answer and not buffing the health.
Oh and any 1-5 scaling instance should have a selectable scale with a shiny title for those who accomplish it on elite 5.
P.S. I don't think honestresearcher is Snakebitewildlife unless he's forgotten a lot from admittedly long ago threads.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
The even more interesting question is why would casual players who allegedly have no interest in gear grinds and don't even have the best gear in the game right now even need this hypothetical uber gear we're going to hypothetically lock behind Elite instances to run casual content?
Still, Recog Vendors FTW!
Because there are players for whom normal content is hard. Getting better gear helps make it easier for them. It also makes concept builds more viable.
Yes, they could get better performance from a better build, not everyone is good at that, and even fewer still know the forums exist and/or use them. So the other options are: global power buffs (bad idea in general) or equip better gear or learn better control and timing of your character. All three (build, gear, player skill) combine to determine game difficulty. When you hit a wall in one, as many casuals have in build and skill, gear is the easiest way to become more powerful.
Wanting more difficulty isn't a bad thing, but just remember a few important things.
1. More health doesn't directly equate to more difficulty, just more time to kill (usually).
2. Adding powers would be a fairly monumentous task, but would have to be the method for increasing difficulty. Adding Crippling Challenge effects as well as more control/debuffs would be the target for a difficulty increase. However these powers would have to be added to every enemy entity in the database, and they would have to be difficulty triggers. (if that's even possible)
3. Decide what your goal is. Do you want to make Elite Un-soloable, or is the goal just a difficulty increase? If it's unsoloability, forget it. Players like me with be able to solo anything a team is able to, excluding mutual click doors, and those types of puzzles (Which are stupid in and of themselves). When the game allows for one player to have access to the level of mitigation, healing, and damage that this game allows, compensating for that creates impossible situations for teams, or turn certain player build types into liabilities. That's a bad thing. "It's a difficulty slider" becomes moot the moment you say DPS builds are worthless because of absurd damage levels that insta-gib them, or that support builds are all that's acceptable due to needing 5x AoPM + 5x Sentinel Aura + 5x Avalanche + Other heals + All their Pets to get through the "challenging content".
4. Maintain a sense of context. Half the videos here were on base difficulty with very specific builds. That Mega-Terrak demo was entirely unimpressive. Having heal over time + Block Vs. an open world Legendary. When an enemy has no healing any DPS is enough to kill, and all that's required is to survive. It just takes a long time. Also remember that it's pointless in a discussion about difficulty sliders to have demo's that would never be effected by the difficulty slider changes that are being discussed.
Remember that content should be interesting, and difficulty is just a form of engagement. 5000% health isn't more difficult, it's stupid tedius. It isn't engaging, and would hurt more than it would help. Effects and powers that change when you increase difficulty would be nice, but would be a huge undertaking. Both to design and implement.
It's an opportunity cost thing. Is it worth effort about the same level as designing and implementing a new group and enemy (minus art), for every group and enemy that exists? That's the hurdle that would need to be jumped for something like this. That and figuring how to add a lockbox to whatever update would implement it :biggrin:
Sure, it was a lost in translation error from my part, but what gives you the right to call me a liar or someone who misrepresents stuff, hmm? Like i said, i rest my case.. I was wrong, and i admit it.. Enough is enough.. :cool:
Yes, and this is a thread about OPTIONAL, "difficulty," increase (in quotes because I don't really consider this to be a good means of increasing difficulty) implemented in a fashion that would not affect the gameplay of those who don't desire it.
Personally I disagree with the OP's approach to increased difficulty (as stated earlier in the thread) but the idea of providing options so that more people can enjoy the game is a positive thing IMO.
At least we agree on something.. Numbers don't change difficulty, and it would be a total waste if a fight takes longer.. Will simply make the game boring in the long run, and people will lose the superhero feeling..
I personally strongly support what's been said earlier about an enemy's increased AI at higher difficulty levels.. Make the enemies more intelligent, to provide some challenge.. I doubt that's possible in an MMO game though, but who knows.. Maybe what the future holds will surprise us all..
Here's an even better solution. Just have everything drop Recognition tokens and we'll all continue to grab our loot from the recognition vendors. Maybe the higher difficulties drop more tokens. In the end, we all have access to the same loot.
Simply this.. I believe it would be totally fair if things were like this, so anyone could enjoy the game in equal terms, despite the difficulty.. Higher difficulty, higher token drop rate..
Challenging Boss Mechanics!(Because Trash mobs SHOULDN'T be 'upgraded')
Knocks and Holds.
When used lightly these two are PERFECT...otherwise I'd rather just participate in fetcon again.
Healing.
Unless there is some sort of mechanic that any player can use if they do not have 'trauma' to help limit the amount of healing a self-heal spamming boss can have, then a self-healing boss shouldn't be in place.
'Enrage' Mechanic.
Now this is a touchy subject. I dislike a test of DPS because it starts to divide the players into numbers instead of characters BUT I really enjoy how it 'is' used in Nemcon.
Large Hp Pools.
Unless I get some sort of buff to my damage, sacks of hp shouldn't be here. Hell, I'd even work to get my damage buff if that meant I could be on-par with the Hp sack.
One-Hit Wonders.
Unless I am given enough time to 'escape' the attack then these should NOT exist.
More than one boss.
Wonderful unless the two bosses are pretty much clones of each other or both bosses have some sort of "cheap shot" that they spam constantly.
Buffs and Debuffs.
Fantastic idea unless they are horribly unbalanced or are next to useless or require the players to just stand still and they receive a 'buff'.
Threat Wipes.
If it is a full table wipe then it is pretty much useless BUT if it is only the active threat user being wiped then it can be considered 'challenging'. But anyone can turtle up and block most of the damage so it is just useless on its own.
Reflect Damage.
Alright...this isn't 'bad' but it can be. Reflecting full damage is something that should only happen if certain requirements are met and it shouldn't last for long periods of time or there should be a way to get rid of the effect.
Chain/AoE Attacks.
No problems with these. They can be used however and even spammed.
Immune Mode.
Bosses immune to certain damage or can be healed if XXX damage hits them at certain times isn't a bad idea but it also isn't a good idea. Being immune only helps if the bosses doesn't attack or if the boss does low damage and there is some sort of way to make them tangible again.
Adds!
Waves and waves = bad. Wave after every 1/3 hp = O-K.
Possible Boss ideas:
The boss' attacks should have a low to high defense penetration while having a high to low damage output based on how much defense penetration it has(high dp = low damage, low dp = high damage). Defenses penetration should NEVER be at or above 50% except on one 'strong' attack that can be clearly identified as the 'BLOCK/RUN NOW!' attack and it gives the player enough time to decided what they want to do(3-5 seconds to compensate for 'lag').
A boss that applies a stacking DoT debuff with every attack that does next to nothing at low numbers but at higher numbers it hurts or 'heals' the boss.
Place some sort of mechanic that allows the player to get rid of the debuff or have the player walk into some sort of AoE that removes the DoT debuff on them one stack at a time every .5 to 1 second BUT have the AoE do moderate damage that cannot be mitigated. Place another mechanic that makes the player not able to tank within the AoE or have the boss become 'enraged' if the one who has active threat is within the AoE.
The 'Ragemode' shouldn't have a OHKO but it can knock or hold the player while doing 'high' damage BUT using the current tools I'd say that a OHKO would be fine as long as there is a way to drop aggro or another mechanic to get rid of the DoT debuff so the active threat player doesn't have a 'dps race'. Toss in a 'strong' Self-heal for the boss after the 'rage' is over and slap on 2-3mil hp with the cosmic tag and call it a day.
Trauma-Drama.
Sadly from a 'newbie' standpoint the above boss would still equate to gravitar...So in short: You will fail if you try but trying shows you care.
You are running the game like a sperm, just pushing through the muck to your destination.
Where is the actual part where you play the game and stop to fight off those mobs?
Where is the part where you take on two or more groups of the mobs to the death at once?
You don't.
You are running the game like a sperm, just pushing through the muck to your destination.
Where is the actual part where you play the game and stop to fight off those mobs?
Where is the part where you take on two or more groups of the mobs to the death at once?
You don't.
The problem is you, not the game.
Me and a lot of other people who know me in this topic, are laughing at you right now. I can plow through elite ROOMs of mobs, but do you know why i dont anymore? because theyre not a challenge enough to bother.
Many of you here also do the same whenever youre farming Bronze King or farming Vikorin, i KNOW you dont bother with the mobs anymore, because it IS a waste of your valuable time and you know the outcome.
Me and a lot of other people who know me in this topic, are laughing at you right now. I can plow through elite ROOMs of mobs, but do you know why i dont anymore? because theyre not a challenge enough to bother.
Seriously if you want people to take you seriously please stop acting so obnoxious, there are a few others on here stooping to the same level but for the most part you've drowned out your sensible points with this poorly concealed e-peen stroking.
As someone who's currently not playing I can say it hasn't been from lack of challenge - CO primarily caters to the casual gamer, not to mention the fact that superheroes should actually feel "super".
I've done the majority of the content and solo'd plenty of it, though never bothered with TT solo since I've done it so often as is.
Challenging content isn't the issue. It's the lack of new content. The neatest thing to come along during my 1 year stay in CO was Whiteout - except after on alert hit it stopped being rewarding.
In fact, for me personally the game stopped being rewarding, particularly when they began focusing their efforts on lockboxes and vehicles (and nerfing the hell out of my jets). It was already bad enough they let pvp fade into nothing.
Having I think 18 40s (forgetting already) if I hadn't had so many alts I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did. Pvp is one of the most influential factors in motivating a player to improve their gear - and with it dead it's hard to justify r8s and r9s when you can get by pve wise in r5s and even less.
Increasing hp doesn't increase difficulty. It increases boredom. Solo Grav. The last time I did it took me about 33 minutes. That didn't make the fight "exciting" or "challenging" but painful and clearly not worthwhile. Increasing hp only changes the difficulty for certain setups and most ATs, and does absolutely nothing for typical pve optimized freeforms.
I mean, pvp is a glaring example. Why did pvp die? The rewards were removed. The only folks left that pvp do it out of pure enjoyment - hence why its dead. With the introduction of lockboxes and their prospective rewards, the majority of in game rewards that were rewarding prior lost value. There was a time where an r5 con enhancement or armor was worth celebrating. Now they're just reminders of how only a select numbers of drops retain value, like rare costume unlocks.
Also, if you actually play, you'll notice a majority of players struggling as is - when I was playing, if I really wanted, I could impose self handicaps if difficulty was such a prime motivator - and you know, I never did
The purpose of all this is that a lot of us wouldnt be so BORED in the long run if the current content was providing enough challenge that replaying it would become fun and not a repeat-repeat-repeat chore with no difficulty, which is the current affair unfortunately.
Most people farming an instance repeatedly for a rare item skip mobs, its a fact.
The purpose of all this is that a lot of us wouldnt be so BORED in the long run if the current content was providing enough challenge that replaying it would become fun and not a repeat-repeat-repeat chore with no difficulty, which is the current affair unfortunately.
Most people farming an instance repeatedly for a rare item skip mobs, its a fact.
It's sort of like Blood Moon Crypts. I don't stop unless I have something to take down.
As someone who's currently not playing I can say it hasn't been from lack of challenge - CO primarily caters to the casual gamer, not to mention the fact that superheroes should actually feel "super".
The problem is... my hero doesn't really feel "super". They feel like... okay, what's a good adjective to describe a pro wrestler swinging a pair of sledge hammers while wading through a group of elementary school children, and when he's finished them off beating a cow to death with a night stick?
I'm all for the game representing the hero beating up low level goons, that is one part of the genre. But, when I see all these people acting as if that's what the entire genre is, I wonder if these folks ever read past that part in the comic book and got to the part where the hero actually fights someone dangerous... someone challenging. It did happen you know... it was often the best part of the book. Sometimes there were even some more-dangerous-than-normal henchmen who gave the hero a run for their money.
A super hero story where the hero just beats up on people significantly weaker than themselves... well okay, imagine the Spider Man movie, but instead of fighting the goblin and doc oc... Peter Parker just keeps beating up guys at his highschool.
My hero feels powerful, sure (and it's nice, don't get me wrong), but it's been a while since they felt heroic.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Seriously if you want people to take you seriously please stop acting so obnoxious, there are a few others on here stooping to the same level but for the most part you've drowned out your sensible points with this poorly concealed e-peen stroking.
On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog. Or Rainman in this case.
The purpose of all this is that a lot of us wouldnt be so BORED in the long run if the current content was providing enough challenge that replaying it would become fun and not a repeat-repeat-repeat chore with no difficulty, which is the current affair unfortunately.
Most people farming an instance repeatedly for a rare item skip mobs, its a fact.
We get it, you've tested on PTS and played on Live long enough that you know the synergistic builds, all the exploits and all the tricks to being a badass. And you build your toons to use em.
But you're not indicative of the majority of F2P (or even P2P) customers. If the game is made harder to suit only you, then people will declare "this sucks", leave and the game will die.
Why yes, the meager resources available to CO should be spent making the game harder because Snake is bored. :rolleyes: Umm, no. You can't have new content if the devs are reworking the game, again. Simple fact.
Plus most of the rare item farmers I know want to run the instance as fast as possible so they can maximize their chances for the drop while minimizing the time spent doing so. WHY would you want to screw that up?
I noticed something, and wanted to make an observation.
Some folks seem to be worried that if they make the higher difficulty levels actually challenging, that some people won't be able to enjoy them, and these folks are basically worried that they'll be missing out on that part of the game ( you know, the same content they have access to, just with a higher level of challenge ). So... they're worried that they're going to miss out on something they don't enjoy... so they don't want it to exist.
So let's say you're a big ol' fatty, and you don't like races. Well, you can walk down the same street that other people are doing foot races on... so why would you try to ban the races just because you don't like them?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
We get it, you've tested on PTS and played on Live long enough that you know the synergistic builds, all the exploits and all the tricks to being a badass. And you build your toons to use em.
Woah woah wooooah mr presumptious, i only have 1 character thats like that, the rest are themed (19 others)
Themed builds also make the game too easy.
Almost entirely naked characters with almost no powers make the game too easy. Are you blind? Check the videos. Watch me kill Mega Terak with my power tray, equipment tray and device tray completely blank.
What a joke. And here you are saying that its absolutely fine. Dear...freaking...god...
Star Trek Online already has this problem. You have those players that have the ear of the developer, that have been playing since its launch and have all the best gear, the most experience, the best ships, and then they complain that "The game is too easy. FIX IT!"
The result is now you have an AI and enemies that have colossal amounts of HP, insane damage output, and downright cheap AI only skills such as the ability to ignore defenses. Sure, now all the uber, min-maxing players are happy, and the rest of the community is frustrated and tired of it.
Myself, I log on to STO mostly for role playing because I've all but given up on the gameplay. And I only do that rarely. If the same thing happens to CO, which I actually pay for, I'll do the same thing and move on to greener pastures, probably GW2.
Why all this hate for my friend Snake here? Normal difficulty would not get changed... Loot would not get changed... And on another note, I've seen most of Snake's theme builds and they awesomely unique. BASS CANNON is sweet, the build was made around a costume part... ****ing awesome hehe.
Remove that tin foil hat good sir. No one has grudges against you each time people have mentioned you in the Forumites or S.e.c.r.e.t channels its was how your banning from the old forums was uncalled for as all you did was inform Cryptic of a glitch that needed fixed.
All the game needs is an extra difficulty level its that freaking simple.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Besides 1 toon im totally a theme builder. Theres no point min-maxing when nothing needs me to.
Im not handicapping myself, but if the theme builds can do 5-man solo elite content: Problem.
And yeah can you guys quit the insults and hate? This topic is not about your personal problems and grudges.
No, but it does seem to be about yours. No one else, or if any, very FEW people are complaining about the difficulty. Every game has someone like you, someone that figures out all the tips, tricks, and power plays to make the perfect combinations, and even if you can beat the game with just a few handpicked, choice superstats and abilities, it doesn't mean that the game needs to be overhauled to suit the elite. Because most people aren't elite. And most people are happy with the game the way it is.
And yeah can you guys quit the insults and hate? This topic is not about your personal problems and grudges.
For certain people around here, that's sadly the most effective thing they can muster to try to shut down someone's opinions and arguments, no matter who's really right.
Quite frankly I think there's this misunderstanding that Snake wants all of the content to be difficult enough to challenge any min-maxer out there. What's being requested is for Elite mode to cater to that difficulty and personally I'm alright with it as long as the easier difficulty modes remain untouched.
Star Trek Online already has this problem. You have those players that have the ear of the developer, that have been playing since its launch and have all the best gear, the most experience, the best ships, and then they complain that "The game is too easy. FIX IT!"
The result is now you have an AI and enemies that have colossal amounts of HP, insane damage output, and downright cheap AI only skills such as the ability to ignore defenses. Sure, now all the uber, min-maxing players are happy, and the rest of the community is frustrated and tired of it.
Myself, I log on to STO mostly for role playing because I've all but given up on the gameplay. And I only do that rarely. If the same thing happens to CO, which I actually pay for, I'll do the same thing and move on to greener pastures, probably GW2.
And STO is generally more successful than CO (which is why it gets all the dev dollars).
So your saying the game that's growing its dev team and getting ready to release the biggest content release ever should mimic the game that has to form a kick-starter just to get what all other Cryptic games already have?
LOL If STO was taking a page from COs play book as you suggest, i suspect you would have more to complain about than you do now...
For the record, i support a difficulty increase in the form of better mob group behavior. By this i mean mobs that are built around the trinity (instead of varying detrees of DPS) and demand target prioritization and decision making. This would also increase the value of crowd control in pve. This would have to be done with villain group veriews. COX had this and it didn't make the game "omg too hard"...
I dont support blanket increase of HP and DPS for mobs. It would be better to do nothing than to make more boaring bag-o-hp mobs.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
For certain people around here, that's sadly the most effective thing they can muster to try to shut down someone's opinions and arguments, no matter who's really right.
Quite frankly I think there's this misunderstanding that Snake wants all of the content to be difficult enough to challenge any min-maxer out there. What's being requested is for Elite mode to cater to that difficulty and personally I'm alright with it as long as the easier difficulty modes remain untouched.
And that is what we're saying exactly.
Normal difficulty and difficulties 1 or 2 up dont need to be changed at all. The top bar however, is too easy. We've had to repeat this an unbelievable amount of times.
For the record, i support a difficulty increase in the form of better mob group behavior. By this i mean mobs that are built around the trinity (instead of varying detrees of DPS) and demand target prioritization and decision making. This would also increase the value of crowd control in pve. This would have to be done with villain group veriews. COX had this and it didn't make the game "omg too hard"...
I dont support blanket increase of HP and DPS for mobs. It would be better to do nothing than to make more boaring bag-o-hp mobs.
I agree what you say here but you have said the CO nasty word ( trinity ) prepare for a mauling. Just a heads up
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
For certain people around here, it sucks to be called out for the idiocy that they make the remaining people willful enough to still argue with them endure. Sadly they argue from a narrow elitist mindset, whether it's right or wrong in the greater scope.
Quite frankly I think there is a misunderstanding that this is simply about what could be done, and not also about what is likely to happen. What's being requested is not just ridiculous, but also very likely to be implemented in a way that almost no one really likes.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
No, but it does seem to be about yours. No one else, or if any, very FEW people are complaining about the difficulty. Every game has someone like you, someone that figures out all the tips, tricks, and power plays to make the perfect combinations, and even if you can beat the game with just a few handpicked, choice superstats and abilities, it doesn't mean that the game needs to be overhauled to suit the elite. Because most people aren't elite. And most people are happy with the game the way it is.
Most people might not be elite, but the difficulty mode that the OP actually wants changed is--its called ELITE.
And its not just him or people that know every trick. I don't normally do 5-man lairs but I routinely solo everything else in the game on Elite mode, often with minimal gear (particularly after On Alert when the gear droprate was drastically reduced [except for lockboxes :rolleyes:] and now I have a hard time finding even a single drop that fits my stats and level), and I'm mostly a concept builder who doesn't know every trick and doesn't even know how to build an uber tank (never built one before). Yet I often find myself pulling every mob I can (even several levels above me) just for the challenge, and surviving.
CO is one of the few games I've ever played where I can solo large mobs of enemies several levels above my toon, using minimal gear and concept builds and still blaze through them without a problem. People here may want to believe otherwise but fact of the matter is that when you can routinely solo mobs of several enemies above your level using mostly gear several levels below your own and stay alive that says something about the level of challenge in the game--it says that its meaningless. If you can kill something above your level using only gear below your level then levels mean nothing and something is off with the game's difficulty settings.
No, but it does seem to be about yours. No one else, or if any, very FEW people are complaining about the difficulty. Every game has someone like you, someone that figures out all the tips, tricks, and power plays to make the perfect combinations, and even if you can beat the game with just a few handpicked, choice superstats and abilities, it doesn't mean that the game needs to be overhauled to suit the elite. Because most people aren't elite. And most people are happy with the game the way it is.
I didn't figure out any of the tips, tricks, and power plays and perfect combinations. My characters are all theme based, and any build guru who looks at my builds laughs at how ridiculous they are, and how I break all the "rules" to making a good build ( too many attacks, lack of synergy, etc... ).
The game is still too easy.
In alerts I pull every mob in sight, make them aggro me, go as fast and hard as I can. Everywhere I go I pull as many mobs as possible.
The game is still too easy.
Correction, the game is too simple.
I would say something like "Listen, checkers is fine, but not all the time, sometimes you want to play chess", but that's not really accurate.
This game is checkers, if they changed checkers so that every time you move a piece, the other player wipes all their pieces off the board, hands you a wad of cash, and then gives you a back massage while singing all your favorite 90s grunge rock hits and rapidly changing the channels on the tv with one foot while preparing you a 4 cheese homemade pizza with the other foot and their sister from Romania dances a jig in the corner while painting your portrait from the most flattering angle and then writes on the portrait in bright bold permanent marker "This guy right here? This guy right here? He has the biggest thickest longest hardest OH YEAH in the whole damn world, yeeeeeah boooooooooy!" and then repaints the whole thing because she basically just ruined the portrait and she wouldn't want to do anything to make you mad. And also they walk your dog after they're done doing that. If you don't have a dog, they get you one.
Yeah, that's the kind of checkers we're playing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
In alerts I pull every mob in sight, make them aggro me, go as fast and hard as I can. Everywhere I go I pull as many mobs as possible.
I want you to try the following:
Make an INT based Night Warrior character, using minimal defense. You're free to take a bit of resistance from trees and something like the advantage on Holdout Shot, but none of this dodge BCR voracious darkness conviction nonsense.
Go high damage maintains and bursty powers (I. E. TGM, LT, Sniper Rifle and Dragon's Claw). IOW, spec straight damage, in fact pick up Smoke Bomb and use it to double the damage of SS. Make sure to pick up the Penetration spec in Int so the boss can really feel you.
Pug some alerts somewhere between level 15 and 35, bonus points for anything that hits like a ton of bricks or self heals.
There's your challenge. There is also what anyone who wants to make a brooding vigilante with guns who doesn't glow in the dark like a ******n Christmas tree is likely to experience.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
For certain people around here, it sucks to be called out for the idiocy that they make the remaining people willful enough to still argue with them endure. Sadly they argue from a narrow elitist mindset, whether it's right or wrong in the greater scope.
Quite frankly I think there is a misunderstanding that this is simply about what could be done, and not also about what is likely to happen. What's being requested is not just ridiculous, but also very likely to be implemented in a way that almost no one really likes.
So you're saying the OP is an idiot for making a big fuss, his narrow Elitist argument is sad but you don't know if it's right or wrong, and that it doesn't matter because Cryptic will probably not do anything or might **** it up? My Mexican brain has trouble understanding things sometimes... Just get it over with and tell the OP what you really think of him.
Make an INT based Night Warrior character, using minimal defense. You're free to take a bit of resistance from trees and something like the advantage on Holdout Shot, but none of this dodge BCR voracious darkness conviction nonsense.
Go high damage maintains and bursty powers (I. E. TGM, LT, Sniper Rifle and Dragon's Claw). IOW, spec straight damage, in fact pick up Smoke Bomb and use it to double the damage of SS. Make sure to pick up the Penetration spec in Int so the boss can really feel you.
Pug some alerts somewhere between level 15 and 35, bonus points for anything that hits like a ton of bricks or self heals.
There's your challenge. There is also what anyone who wants to make a brooding vigilante with guns who doesn't glow in the dark like a ******n Christmas tree is likely to experience.
So this will make the mobs act more intelligently and have a more interesting diverse set of abilities?
Or are you basically advocating the "mobs have more hp and damage" type of difficulty that so many folks in this thread are against?
I've tried what you suggest several times by the way. Guess what?
The game is still too easy.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
For certain people around here, it sucks to be called out for the idiocy that they make the remaining people willful enough to still argue with them endure. Sadly they argue from a narrow elitist mindset, whether it's right or wrong in the greater scope.
Quite frankly I think there is a misunderstanding that this is simply about what could be done, and not also about what is likely to happen. What's being requested is not just ridiculous, but also very likely to be implemented in a way that almost no one really likes.
"It'll probably go badly, so let's not do anything." Good way to live your life.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
So this will make the mobs act more intelligently and have a more interesting diverse set of abilities?
Or are you basically advocating the "mobs have more hp and damage" type of difficulty that so many folks in this thread are against?
I've tried what you suggest several times by the way. Guess what?
The game is still too easy.
Hahahaha, that's what the OP wants. What you're asking for is both what would really be the thing to go for, and what is practically unlikely to happen, even in a terribly implemented half assed fashion.
See, 15 pages in and you're STILL not getting it. If you expect Cryptic to produce actual AI programming you're even more out of touch than the OP. Notgunnahappen.
Also, seeing as I'm doing exactly what I'm suggesting right now, I can tell you that the game is not too easy. I've been picking my brain on how I'm going to get this guy a decent defensive setup so he's not complete paper at 40, without looking like a damn Christmas tree. Chances are, I'm just going to have to deal with being a Christmas Tree once more, because as it stands the game is already hard enough for squishies when you're doing anything that actually matters.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
"It'll probably go badly, so let's not do anything." Good way to live your life.
This would have been some very excellent advice for a lot of game developers in the past, actually. After all, Sega would still be making consoles right now if they would have gone "there is no way in HELL we can make the 32X work, considering there was not even a market for the Sega CD."
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Comments
/Signed
Recog tokens are my favorite type of reward, and I think this is an excellent idea for how to handle this.
Then take the costume drop and make it a Recog thing. Seriously I would like to see almost every "reward" optainable through Recog vendors.
That's the problem. I don't expect PWE Cryptic to make that distinction.
Also, ESPECIALLY in a game like CO, there's something to be said about keeping players who don't min max or aren't the best on the rails for gear, if not at the same rate as everyone else. Given the majority of characters you'll find running about the world of CO are thematic to an extent, if not to the point of being downright crippling, much of that isn't even a case of bad build.
You have to consider that progression is not in any way directly related to difficulty. These two things can operate completely and totally independent of each other. The not best player with the not best build is still a paying customer, and when it takes them longer, assuming they're not left out of the fun in games period, you risk pissing them off. You've gotta be really freaking careful with that stuff, because it can drive away customers both directly and indirectly through breeding a bitter, hateful in game atmosphere.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Awesome idea
Like a Normal mode 5man instance run would get you 5 Tokens.
And a Elite mode 5man instance run would get you 8 Tokens
In any case, i couldnt care less about gear at this point, as more points seem to be just doing near nothing at the stat-caps. Im sticking with 3 slot gear until i see a reason to go to 4 slots (*cough* difficulty increase *cough*)
I think they know that costume drops and gear are different. As far as being distinct... gear is dumb easy to get, and costume drops take hours,days,months,years of farming.
You know how I keep mentioning that a lot of folks on your side of the argument keep convincing themselves that we're trying to make every part of the game so difficult and gear so hard to get that you won't be able to play it anymore? This is what I mean. If you just stop pretending that we're trying to do that, the problem goes away.
This game has no progression, and we're not asking for progression, so I don't see the issue here.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
The even more interesting question is why would casual players who allegedly have no interest in gear grinds and don't even have the best gear in the game right now even need this hypothetical uber gear we're going to hypothetically lock behind Elite instances to run casual content?
Still, Recog Vendors FTW!
^ a thousand times. Couldn't have said it better myself. The game is full of options. USE them and don't ruin the fun for the ones that are actually having it.
Also, I'm seeing some mobs dropping something like 5 Questionite. Some are per mob, some are per NPC.
So, put all of the fluff, gear, items up for sale in the various stores (BoE please) and let us gather / farm for that which we WANT. The greater the difficulty, the greater the reward is pretty standard expectation. Hence the need for more tokens at each higher difficulty.
And, of course, do a FULL OUT, Item/Device pass. Balance this stuff, sorta. Cooldowns, utility, etc. There's a reason why you see Eroded Shards, Contained Radiation, Thunderbolt Wand, etc at the low end of the pricing in the AH. While stuff like Eruption, Ice Grenades, Pheremones, etc are on the high end. Heck, if all you do is just say the low end stuff costs "X" number of Recog tokens and the "better items" cost substantially more, that's about all you "need" to do (else I'm going to get flamed to death:eek:).
As to ELITE mode, many have soloed the APs/comics/etc in ELITE and had little extra difficulty from Normal mode. Yet, when you get a full team and do them in NORMAL mode, it can be very difficult because of the extra + tougher NPCs. So, why isn't ELITE all about "more + tougher" NPCs, not just slightly tougher ones?
Plus, I agree that they should be varied and have better AI. At least have some try to remain "at range". The Brickbuster debuff is a good example, too. Stuns, holds, immunities, etc. Put all of that into ELITE so you can't just have the <flavor of the day build> rofl stomping everything using the same 1 or 2 offensive powers.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
I also think Recognition tokens would be a great idea. +1 to Smoo. Your logical argument, on the other hand is being delivered on internet forum. Most everyone wants new stuff, better stuff and shinier stuff. It's wired into the primate part of our brains. Need has nothing to do with it.
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Grudge based XD I have no grudge against you. Snakey you also dont need to tell us who you are we all knew (my furry radar is strong ). I think your an alright chap but on this matter your a bit wrong. As you will find I have said in this very thread an extra difficulty is a good idea. That bit is all good.
Now the wrong bit the ranting about the casual players dragging this game into the grave. Wrong for over a year now the casual players have been SAVING this game. I'm a casual player and I have spent hundreds on this game.
You need to research a little bit harder your only half right on this topic.
Also arguement is written argument.
Now to quote yourself Lick me ima chocolate \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Nice try at misrepresenting what was said.
Yes, and this is a thread about OPTIONAL, "difficulty," increase (in quotes because I don't really consider this to be a good means of increasing difficulty) implemented in a fashion that would not affect the gameplay of those who don't desire it.
Personally I disagree with the OP's approach to increased difficulty (as stated earlier in the thread) but the idea of providing options so that more people can enjoy the game is a positive thing IMO.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
That being said as much as I would enjoy razor-brand cereal, I also enjoy my stale, safe cereal too!
Also, Will/Where the segregation occur?
Lack-luster rewards or FANTASTIC rewards with little use to repeat content once you have it(other than the fact that you will be repeating the 'challenge' again)? BoE or BoP?
Recog...Mmmk more currency...right.......Will there be a seller who dishes out brand new shinies costing a combination of all the ****ING *ehm* currency that we currently have? Or will it be just more ****ING currency that you collect and rot.
A: You'd think that, but you'd be wrong. Proof is in the mistakes already made. Made when we had better development, none the less.
B: Time and difficulty are not the same.
See, this is what I mean, I'm not even going to go on replying to the rest because it's basically you putting words in my mouth and having general misconceptions about various things.
For starters, the game does have progression, even if you chose to ignore it. It may not be the best tiered, and it may not be the best designed, but it DOES exists in some manner.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Sure, I'll bite (again). Where is the option to make the mobs behave more intelligently, have a more diverse range of abilities, etc...
I'm sure someone is still entranced by the tactic of breaking line of sight repeatedly, but some of us are hoping for a bit more. But by all means, please list these options. You did type optionS... implying there's more than one. So one option was gimping yourself.. what are the others?
A: Yes, they did things differently in the past. They're not doing them that way now. Pointing out how they did things in the past only serves to provide contrast to how differently they're handling gear now. Thank you for that.
B: Not sure why you're pointing that out... apples and oranges are different too, we having fun yet?
So the game has progression? Neat, could you provide some sort of tiered list? Because as far as I can tell, progression in this game looks something like this...
Tier 1: Level to 40
Tier 2: Unity missions, all the lairs, all the alerts.
I look forward to you pointing me in the direction of the next tier, thank you in advance for your assistance, I've been wondering for a while what the next step was but so far no one has been able to point it out.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
One of my failed Andrith attempts was made with a serious tank, Protecter Mastery and lots of other defensive stuff. The flaw in the build was my inability to adapt to a post Enrage nerf game. Once upon a time my enrage would have boosted my Electrical attacks as well as my Iron Cyclone and Haymakers a lot more.
As it was I didn't have the damage output needed to put the mobs down before they clawed me down and I lost all my stars chewing my way thru Andrith. Finally unable to face several four golem mobs I called it a day.
Yet I was able to destroy the Hyrg Coruscator without too much difficulty. I believe that had I gotten through to Vik I could have taken him poor build and all it had a lot of healing and even I can block a single axis of attack when needed.
Dealing with multiple threats is to me a heck of a lot harder than any SINGLE BOSS. I have suggested on PTS I think it was dividing an end lair boss into 2 or more lesser guys and seeing how that goes. Therakiel divided by 5 (but minus the eyebeam) will produce more threats and more DPS, more opportunity to get killed through poor situational awareness. I think it would interesting to try this out somehow (don't ask me how).
As I said mobs can and do kill even my toughest builds but maybe I don't build very well. While it is certain that the game is not particularly challenging on the whole and that serious game players would laugh at the 5 man elite lair. I think overloading with threats is the answer and not buffing the health.
Oh and any 1-5 scaling instance should have a selectable scale with a shiny title for those who accomplish it on elite 5.
P.S. I don't think honestresearcher is Snakebitewildlife unless he's forgotten a lot from admittedly long ago threads.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The one who can't shut up formerly known as 4rksakes
About the @handle - it's a long story.
Profound quote.. "I'm not a complete idiot - several parts are missing."
Because there are players for whom normal content is hard. Getting better gear helps make it easier for them. It also makes concept builds more viable.
Yes, they could get better performance from a better build, not everyone is good at that, and even fewer still know the forums exist and/or use them. So the other options are: global power buffs (bad idea in general) or equip better gear or learn better control and timing of your character. All three (build, gear, player skill) combine to determine game difficulty. When you hit a wall in one, as many casuals have in build and skill, gear is the easiest way to become more powerful.
And yes, recognition vendors is a great idea.
1. More health doesn't directly equate to more difficulty, just more time to kill (usually).
2. Adding powers would be a fairly monumentous task, but would have to be the method for increasing difficulty. Adding Crippling Challenge effects as well as more control/debuffs would be the target for a difficulty increase. However these powers would have to be added to every enemy entity in the database, and they would have to be difficulty triggers. (if that's even possible)
3. Decide what your goal is. Do you want to make Elite Un-soloable, or is the goal just a difficulty increase? If it's unsoloability, forget it. Players like me with be able to solo anything a team is able to, excluding mutual click doors, and those types of puzzles (Which are stupid in and of themselves). When the game allows for one player to have access to the level of mitigation, healing, and damage that this game allows, compensating for that creates impossible situations for teams, or turn certain player build types into liabilities. That's a bad thing. "It's a difficulty slider" becomes moot the moment you say DPS builds are worthless because of absurd damage levels that insta-gib them, or that support builds are all that's acceptable due to needing 5x AoPM + 5x Sentinel Aura + 5x Avalanche + Other heals + All their Pets to get through the "challenging content".
4. Maintain a sense of context. Half the videos here were on base difficulty with very specific builds. That Mega-Terrak demo was entirely unimpressive. Having heal over time + Block Vs. an open world Legendary. When an enemy has no healing any DPS is enough to kill, and all that's required is to survive. It just takes a long time. Also remember that it's pointless in a discussion about difficulty sliders to have demo's that would never be effected by the difficulty slider changes that are being discussed.
Remember that content should be interesting, and difficulty is just a form of engagement. 5000% health isn't more difficult, it's stupid tedius. It isn't engaging, and would hurt more than it would help. Effects and powers that change when you increase difficulty would be nice, but would be a huge undertaking. Both to design and implement.
It's an opportunity cost thing. Is it worth effort about the same level as designing and implementing a new group and enemy (minus art), for every group and enemy that exists? That's the hurdle that would need to be jumped for something like this. That and figuring how to add a lockbox to whatever update would implement it :biggrin:
At least we agree on something.. Numbers don't change difficulty, and it would be a total waste if a fight takes longer.. Will simply make the game boring in the long run, and people will lose the superhero feeling..
I personally strongly support what's been said earlier about an enemy's increased AI at higher difficulty levels.. Make the enemies more intelligent, to provide some challenge.. I doubt that's possible in an MMO game though, but who knows.. Maybe what the future holds will surprise us all..
As for drops/loot? Simply this.. I believe it would be totally fair if things were like this, so anyone could enjoy the game in equal terms, despite the difficulty.. Higher difficulty, higher token drop rate..
Knocks and Holds.
When used lightly these two are PERFECT...otherwise I'd rather just participate in fetcon again.
Healing.
Unless there is some sort of mechanic that any player can use if they do not have 'trauma' to help limit the amount of healing a self-heal spamming boss can have, then a self-healing boss shouldn't be in place.
'Enrage' Mechanic.
Now this is a touchy subject. I dislike a test of DPS because it starts to divide the players into numbers instead of characters BUT I really enjoy how it 'is' used in Nemcon.
Large Hp Pools.
Unless I get some sort of buff to my damage, sacks of hp shouldn't be here. Hell, I'd even work to get my damage buff if that meant I could be on-par with the Hp sack.
One-Hit Wonders.
Unless I am given enough time to 'escape' the attack then these should NOT exist.
More than one boss.
Wonderful unless the two bosses are pretty much clones of each other or both bosses have some sort of "cheap shot" that they spam constantly.
Buffs and Debuffs.
Fantastic idea unless they are horribly unbalanced or are next to useless or require the players to just stand still and they receive a 'buff'.
Threat Wipes.
If it is a full table wipe then it is pretty much useless BUT if it is only the active threat user being wiped then it can be considered 'challenging'. But anyone can turtle up and block most of the damage so it is just useless on its own.
Reflect Damage.
Alright...this isn't 'bad' but it can be. Reflecting full damage is something that should only happen if certain requirements are met and it shouldn't last for long periods of time or there should be a way to get rid of the effect.
Chain/AoE Attacks.
No problems with these. They can be used however and even spammed.
Immune Mode.
Bosses immune to certain damage or can be healed if XXX damage hits them at certain times isn't a bad idea but it also isn't a good idea. Being immune only helps if the bosses doesn't attack or if the boss does low damage and there is some sort of way to make them tangible again.
Adds!
Waves and waves = bad. Wave after every 1/3 hp = O-K.
Possible Boss ideas:
The boss' attacks should have a low to high defense penetration while having a high to low damage output based on how much defense penetration it has(high dp = low damage, low dp = high damage). Defenses penetration should NEVER be at or above 50% except on one 'strong' attack that can be clearly identified as the 'BLOCK/RUN NOW!' attack and it gives the player enough time to decided what they want to do(3-5 seconds to compensate for 'lag').
A boss that applies a stacking DoT debuff with every attack that does next to nothing at low numbers but at higher numbers it hurts or 'heals' the boss.
Place some sort of mechanic that allows the player to get rid of the debuff or have the player walk into some sort of AoE that removes the DoT debuff on them one stack at a time every .5 to 1 second BUT have the AoE do moderate damage that cannot be mitigated. Place another mechanic that makes the player not able to tank within the AoE or have the boss become 'enraged' if the one who has active threat is within the AoE.
The 'Ragemode' shouldn't have a OHKO but it can knock or hold the player while doing 'high' damage BUT using the current tools I'd say that a OHKO would be fine as long as there is a way to drop aggro or another mechanic to get rid of the DoT debuff so the active threat player doesn't have a 'dps race'. Toss in a 'strong' Self-heal for the boss after the 'rage' is over and slap on 2-3mil hp with the cosmic tag and call it a day.
Trauma-Drama.
Sadly from a 'newbie' standpoint the above boss would still equate to gravitar...So in short: You will fail if you try but trying shows you care.
You are running the game like a sperm, just pushing through the muck to your destination.
Where is the actual part where you play the game and stop to fight off those mobs?
Where is the part where you take on two or more groups of the mobs to the death at once?
You don't.
The problem is you, not the game.
Me and a lot of other people who know me in this topic, are laughing at you right now. I can plow through elite ROOMs of mobs, but do you know why i dont anymore? because theyre not a challenge enough to bother.
Many of you here also do the same whenever youre farming Bronze King or farming Vikorin, i KNOW you dont bother with the mobs anymore, because it IS a waste of your valuable time and you know the outcome.
Seriously if you want people to take you seriously please stop acting so obnoxious, there are a few others on here stooping to the same level but for the most part you've drowned out your sensible points with this poorly concealed e-peen stroking.
Brick_McDuggins in game.
I've done the majority of the content and solo'd plenty of it, though never bothered with TT solo since I've done it so often as is.
Challenging content isn't the issue. It's the lack of new content. The neatest thing to come along during my 1 year stay in CO was Whiteout - except after on alert hit it stopped being rewarding.
In fact, for me personally the game stopped being rewarding, particularly when they began focusing their efforts on lockboxes and vehicles (and nerfing the hell out of my jets). It was already bad enough they let pvp fade into nothing.
Having I think 18 40s (forgetting already) if I hadn't had so many alts I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did. Pvp is one of the most influential factors in motivating a player to improve their gear - and with it dead it's hard to justify r8s and r9s when you can get by pve wise in r5s and even less.
Increasing hp doesn't increase difficulty. It increases boredom. Solo Grav. The last time I did it took me about 33 minutes. That didn't make the fight "exciting" or "challenging" but painful and clearly not worthwhile. Increasing hp only changes the difficulty for certain setups and most ATs, and does absolutely nothing for typical pve optimized freeforms.
I mean, pvp is a glaring example. Why did pvp die? The rewards were removed. The only folks left that pvp do it out of pure enjoyment - hence why its dead. With the introduction of lockboxes and their prospective rewards, the majority of in game rewards that were rewarding prior lost value. There was a time where an r5 con enhancement or armor was worth celebrating. Now they're just reminders of how only a select numbers of drops retain value, like rare costume unlocks.
Also, if you actually play, you'll notice a majority of players struggling as is - when I was playing, if I really wanted, I could impose self handicaps if difficulty was such a prime motivator - and you know, I never did
The purpose of all this is that a lot of us wouldnt be so BORED in the long run if the current content was providing enough challenge that replaying it would become fun and not a repeat-repeat-repeat chore with no difficulty, which is the current affair unfortunately.
Most people farming an instance repeatedly for a rare item skip mobs, its a fact.
It's sort of like Blood Moon Crypts. I don't stop unless I have something to take down.
The problem is... my hero doesn't really feel "super". They feel like... okay, what's a good adjective to describe a pro wrestler swinging a pair of sledge hammers while wading through a group of elementary school children, and when he's finished them off beating a cow to death with a night stick?
I'm all for the game representing the hero beating up low level goons, that is one part of the genre. But, when I see all these people acting as if that's what the entire genre is, I wonder if these folks ever read past that part in the comic book and got to the part where the hero actually fights someone dangerous... someone challenging. It did happen you know... it was often the best part of the book. Sometimes there were even some more-dangerous-than-normal henchmen who gave the hero a run for their money.
A super hero story where the hero just beats up on people significantly weaker than themselves... well okay, imagine the Spider Man movie, but instead of fighting the goblin and doc oc... Peter Parker just keeps beating up guys at his highschool.
My hero feels powerful, sure (and it's nice, don't get me wrong), but it's been a while since they felt heroic.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog. Or Rainman in this case.
Wait? Whaaaa..?
We get it, you've tested on PTS and played on Live long enough that you know the synergistic builds, all the exploits and all the tricks to being a badass. And you build your toons to use em.
But you're not indicative of the majority of F2P (or even P2P) customers. If the game is made harder to suit only you, then people will declare "this sucks", leave and the game will die.
Why yes, the meager resources available to CO should be spent making the game harder because Snake is bored. :rolleyes: Umm, no. You can't have new content if the devs are reworking the game, again. Simple fact.
Plus most of the rare item farmers I know want to run the instance as fast as possible so they can maximize their chances for the drop while minimizing the time spent doing so. WHY would you want to screw that up?
The problem is still you.
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
Some folks seem to be worried that if they make the higher difficulty levels actually challenging, that some people won't be able to enjoy them, and these folks are basically worried that they'll be missing out on that part of the game ( you know, the same content they have access to, just with a higher level of challenge ). So... they're worried that they're going to miss out on something they don't enjoy... so they don't want it to exist.
So let's say you're a big ol' fatty, and you don't like races. Well, you can walk down the same street that other people are doing foot races on... so why would you try to ban the races just because you don't like them?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Woah woah wooooah mr presumptious, i only have 1 character thats like that, the rest are themed (19 others)
Themed builds also make the game too easy.
Almost entirely naked characters with almost no powers make the game too easy. Are you blind? Check the videos. Watch me kill Mega Terak with my power tray, equipment tray and device tray completely blank.
What a joke. And here you are saying that its absolutely fine. Dear...freaking...god...
The result is now you have an AI and enemies that have colossal amounts of HP, insane damage output, and downright cheap AI only skills such as the ability to ignore defenses. Sure, now all the uber, min-maxing players are happy, and the rest of the community is frustrated and tired of it.
Myself, I log on to STO mostly for role playing because I've all but given up on the gameplay. And I only do that rarely. If the same thing happens to CO, which I actually pay for, I'll do the same thing and move on to greener pastures, probably GW2.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This was awesome while it lasted
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Im not handicapping myself, but if the theme builds can do 5-man solo elite content: Problem.
And yeah can you guys quit the insults and hate? This topic is not about your personal problems and grudges.
All the game needs is an extra difficulty level its that freaking simple.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No, but it does seem to be about yours. No one else, or if any, very FEW people are complaining about the difficulty. Every game has someone like you, someone that figures out all the tips, tricks, and power plays to make the perfect combinations, and even if you can beat the game with just a few handpicked, choice superstats and abilities, it doesn't mean that the game needs to be overhauled to suit the elite. Because most people aren't elite. And most people are happy with the game the way it is.
For certain people around here, that's sadly the most effective thing they can muster to try to shut down someone's opinions and arguments, no matter who's really right.
Quite frankly I think there's this misunderstanding that Snake wants all of the content to be difficult enough to challenge any min-maxer out there. What's being requested is for Elite mode to cater to that difficulty and personally I'm alright with it as long as the easier difficulty modes remain untouched.
So your saying the game that's growing its dev team and getting ready to release the biggest content release ever should mimic the game that has to form a kick-starter just to get what all other Cryptic games already have?
LOL If STO was taking a page from COs play book as you suggest, i suspect you would have more to complain about than you do now...
For the record, i support a difficulty increase in the form of better mob group behavior. By this i mean mobs that are built around the trinity (instead of varying detrees of DPS) and demand target prioritization and decision making. This would also increase the value of crowd control in pve. This would have to be done with villain group veriews. COX had this and it didn't make the game "omg too hard"...
I dont support blanket increase of HP and DPS for mobs. It would be better to do nothing than to make more boaring bag-o-hp mobs.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
And that is what we're saying exactly.
Normal difficulty and difficulties 1 or 2 up dont need to be changed at all. The top bar however, is too easy. We've had to repeat this an unbelievable amount of times.
We arent effecting you.
I agree what you say here but you have said the CO nasty word ( trinity ) prepare for a mauling. Just a heads up
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Quite frankly I think there is a misunderstanding that this is simply about what could be done, and not also about what is likely to happen. What's being requested is not just ridiculous, but also very likely to be implemented in a way that almost no one really likes.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Most people might not be elite, but the difficulty mode that the OP actually wants changed is--its called ELITE.
And its not just him or people that know every trick. I don't normally do 5-man lairs but I routinely solo everything else in the game on Elite mode, often with minimal gear (particularly after On Alert when the gear droprate was drastically reduced [except for lockboxes :rolleyes:] and now I have a hard time finding even a single drop that fits my stats and level), and I'm mostly a concept builder who doesn't know every trick and doesn't even know how to build an uber tank (never built one before). Yet I often find myself pulling every mob I can (even several levels above me) just for the challenge, and surviving.
CO is one of the few games I've ever played where I can solo large mobs of enemies several levels above my toon, using minimal gear and concept builds and still blaze through them without a problem. People here may want to believe otherwise but fact of the matter is that when you can routinely solo mobs of several enemies above your level using mostly gear several levels below your own and stay alive that says something about the level of challenge in the game--it says that its meaningless. If you can kill something above your level using only gear below your level then levels mean nothing and something is off with the game's difficulty settings.
I didn't figure out any of the tips, tricks, and power plays and perfect combinations. My characters are all theme based, and any build guru who looks at my builds laughs at how ridiculous they are, and how I break all the "rules" to making a good build ( too many attacks, lack of synergy, etc... ).
The game is still too easy.
In alerts I pull every mob in sight, make them aggro me, go as fast and hard as I can. Everywhere I go I pull as many mobs as possible.
The game is still too easy.
Correction, the game is too simple.
I would say something like "Listen, checkers is fine, but not all the time, sometimes you want to play chess", but that's not really accurate.
This game is checkers, if they changed checkers so that every time you move a piece, the other player wipes all their pieces off the board, hands you a wad of cash, and then gives you a back massage while singing all your favorite 90s grunge rock hits and rapidly changing the channels on the tv with one foot while preparing you a 4 cheese homemade pizza with the other foot and their sister from Romania dances a jig in the corner while painting your portrait from the most flattering angle and then writes on the portrait in bright bold permanent marker "This guy right here? This guy right here? He has the biggest thickest longest hardest OH YEAH in the whole damn world, yeeeeeah boooooooooy!" and then repaints the whole thing because she basically just ruined the portrait and she wouldn't want to do anything to make you mad. And also they walk your dog after they're done doing that. If you don't have a dog, they get you one.
Yeah, that's the kind of checkers we're playing.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
From your point of view.
I want you to try the following:
Make an INT based Night Warrior character, using minimal defense. You're free to take a bit of resistance from trees and something like the advantage on Holdout Shot, but none of this dodge BCR voracious darkness conviction nonsense.
Go high damage maintains and bursty powers (I. E. TGM, LT, Sniper Rifle and Dragon's Claw). IOW, spec straight damage, in fact pick up Smoke Bomb and use it to double the damage of SS. Make sure to pick up the Penetration spec in Int so the boss can really feel you.
Pug some alerts somewhere between level 15 and 35, bonus points for anything that hits like a ton of bricks or self heals.
There's your challenge. There is also what anyone who wants to make a brooding vigilante with guns who doesn't glow in the dark like a ******n Christmas tree is likely to experience.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
So you're saying the OP is an idiot for making a big fuss, his narrow Elitist argument is sad but you don't know if it's right or wrong, and that it doesn't matter because Cryptic will probably not do anything or might **** it up? My Mexican brain has trouble understanding things sometimes... Just get it over with and tell the OP what you really think of him.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This was awesome while it lasted
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So this will make the mobs act more intelligently and have a more interesting diverse set of abilities?
Or are you basically advocating the "mobs have more hp and damage" type of difficulty that so many folks in this thread are against?
I've tried what you suggest several times by the way. Guess what?
The game is still too easy.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
"It'll probably go badly, so let's not do anything." Good way to live your life.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Hahahaha, that's what the OP wants. What you're asking for is both what would really be the thing to go for, and what is practically unlikely to happen, even in a terribly implemented half assed fashion.
See, 15 pages in and you're STILL not getting it. If you expect Cryptic to produce actual AI programming you're even more out of touch than the OP. Notgunnahappen.
Also, seeing as I'm doing exactly what I'm suggesting right now, I can tell you that the game is not too easy. I've been picking my brain on how I'm going to get this guy a decent defensive setup so he's not complete paper at 40, without looking like a damn Christmas tree. Chances are, I'm just going to have to deal with being a Christmas Tree once more, because as it stands the game is already hard enough for squishies when you're doing anything that actually matters.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
This would have been some very excellent advice for a lot of game developers in the past, actually. After all, Sega would still be making consoles right now if they would have gone "there is no way in HELL we can make the 32X work, considering there was not even a market for the Sega CD."
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."