Tonight, we roll out the first three of the six all new five man Alert missions(with the ten-man Rampage Alert releasing shortly afterward). In these missions, players will go square off against new villains spawned from the "Create-a-Villain" contest.
Don't like what they look like, of what they stand for? Well, here's your chance to open up a can of whoop-**** on them
Thanks for admitting that these designs may or may not be terribly made. But its kind of the staff's fault for not choosing good ones or ones that followed the rules of the contest. (referring to that dual villain winner)
This is great and all but small content like this is meaningless without meaningful content as well, adding daily's like this is fine but in the end that's all they are is daily missions for people not real content when do we get the new zone more real content?
#2 Smoke Bomb advantage has a cooldown, I think its 10 seconds. Also the critical severity effect can be consumed by your energy builder. Interesting.
Interesting.... well there goes my only objection on people spamming this lunge for the advantage.
Edit: the internal cooldown seems to be waaay longer than 10 seconds, need to do more testing when I have time... also with night warrior got a power called "shadow strike" its INSANELY powerful. Its a non charged that has 1 min cooldown or so, that does massive single target damage while stealthed. I did easily a 20k crit... with 50% crit severity lol, the normal hits of shadow strike are 15k.... yeah I can see peeps crying on pvp over this one.
Edit #2: DEERP! just noticed the description of the advantage of smoke lunge says that you have to lunge from 50 feet away for it to trigger. There's no internal cooldown. Still I am happy with it, believe it or not feels balanced considering there's factors like your EB consuming this buff.
Edit #3: I am not even sure if the advantage triggers all the time or its just a random buff, I just dont seem to be able to get the buff consistently, even from lunging from more than 50 feet.
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... also with night warrior got a power called "shadow strike" its INSANELY powerful. Its a non charged that has 1 min cooldown or so, that does massive single target damage while stealthed. I did easily a 20k crit... with 50% crit severity lol, the normal hits of shadow strike are 15k.... yeah I can see peeps crying on pvp over this one.
I'm unable to test this at this time but with Night Warrior. So does it grant 2 powers this time? Or did they switch out sneak with this new Shadow Strike?
From what you are saying with Shadow Strike, that doesn't sound "fun".
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
I'm unable to test this at this time but with Night Warrior. So does it grant 2 powers this time? Or did they switch out sneak with this new Shadow Strike?
From what you are saying with Shadow Strike, that doesn't sound "fun".
You get sneak and shadow strike. Personally, so far i think its fun.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
You get sneak and shadow strike. Personally, so far i think its fun.
Thanks for the response.
I personally have a big issue with a "passive" power granting two active powers. Mechanically, it's basically saying "Ignore the power point purchase restrictions as just taking Night Warrior will you give you a Become Device".
That being said, others will have a different opinion because it's exactly what they want "now" or they may be settling for this over no changes to stealth at all. I don't have the ability to break the game open and physically make an alternative proposal at making stealth more viable. So there is no way I could convince other players that this is probably not a "long term" good thing for Night Warrior to do so. If they're happy with it then its fine.
So just addressing the design team working on this at this time; Sorry, I think I'll pass on Night Warrior. My opinion is that in its current inception I feel it's game-breaking rather than game-changing though I understand its probably already too late to go back to the drawing board with this one. All the other powers seem nice so awesome job in bringing those ones to life.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
I'm unable to test this at this time but with Night Warrior. So does it grant 2 powers this time? Or did they switch out sneak with this new Shadow Strike?
Seems it grants 2 powers now. I am not sure how it happened, it wasn't on my skill bar before on the char I am testing the new powers.
All I know its that it appeared on my skill bar when I retconned my char and relearned the new powers. Maybe its a bug that I have access to this power (which would explain the insane amount of damage), maybe its not.
Its on a 1 min 30 sec cooldown, hits for 15k with my char that I dont even have specs or talents assigned. Both pve-wise and pvp-wise make me scratch my head. Pve-wise such a massive amount of damage at the beginning of the fight, will make you to get aggro automatically on the boss, unless your tank is good, or you timed your initial assault (waited a few secs before engaging). Pvp... yup, sounds like 1 hit kills unless it has a different interaction with players.
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Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
EDIT: All my testing was done as lv 20 with basic gear. Sneak: PVE:
Sneak can be used in combat. This solves a lot of problems. This doesn't seem to break agro so you have to time it rite because giving or taking dmg will break sneak.
The cool-down on shadow strike seems to keep combat sneak from being op
When you sneak, and run away, you don't have to run as far to break mob agro.
You can use just about any non damaging Crowd Control power without breaking sneak. I like this for PVE because CC isn't that good in pve, but this could be pretty OP in pvp.
The taunt from melee energy builders (at range) argos mobs from sneak the first time, but if you agro with your EB (at range) and then break los and and re-inter sneak you can then build energy from sneak at range. I don't have a problem with this by it self, but you can then throw gas pellets from sneak without breaking agro and while still building energy. This allows you to AOE groups of mobs to death from sneak w/o agro.
I guess you can do the same thing with ego sprites and sleep but it seems wrong.
PVP:
It seems that your average build can see through sneak in pvp but cant attack (unless you use attacks that don't use targeting). Powers like epidemic, sword cyclone, Fissure ect will be very resistant to night warriors.
Shadow strike is the bomb. In pvp but obviously, you cant lunge + shadow strike without breaking sneak. In a test dual, my opponent was able to see me and keep running out of melee range to prevent me from getting shadow strike off.
You can sneak + teleport. This isn't so bad because your movement speed is reduced as soon as you come out of tp. This may become an issue when you can have 2 travel powers. Sneak + teleport + acrobatics probably wont make you much deadlier offensively but would probably make you tough to kill. Teleport already makes you tough to kill on its own.
You can use Ego Hold (and any non damaging hold but ego hold lets you move while charging) without breaking sneak. Im ok with being able to charge a hold without breaking sneak but applying a hold/CC should probably break sneak.
Another example is that you can use entangling mesh without breaking sneak making for ez prey for your shadow strike.
You may want to investigate the way sneak, teleport and Smoke bomb interact.
The above stated combo would be far less dangerous in pvp if we had the old perception gear from pre "on alert"
Shadow Strike:
I love it, but some one may figure out a combo that makes it broken. Please don't change it too much.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Seems it grants 2 powers now. I am not sure how it happened, it wasn't on my skill bar before on the char I am testing the new powers.
All I know its that it appeared on my skill bar when I retconned my char and relearned the new powers. Maybe its a bug that I have access to this power (which would explain the insane amount of damage), maybe its not.
Its on a 1 min 30 sec cooldown, hits for 15k with my char that I dont even have specs or talents assigned. Both pve-wise and pvp-wise make me scratch my head. Pve-wise such a massive amount of damage at the beginning of the fight, will make you to get aggro automatically on the boss, unless your tank is good, or you timed your initial assault (waited a few secs before engaging). Pvp... yup, sounds like 1 hit kills unless it has a different interaction with players.
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah with the numbers itself I would initially say that "could" be tuned through playtesting, though fundamentally; would you like to be pidgin-holed to a specific playstyle by the choice of a single power?
Its currently sounding like people don't mind so I guess that's fine in the end. Though I don't carry the belief an open-power choice system was ever intended to promote that. I don't pick Defiance or Invulnerability and think I'm a Tank that's how I'm expected to play. If I selected the Role: Tank, then yeah sure. I'm communicating that to the team that I'm prepared to play as one.
I see Role choices restricting power choices and playstyles though not individual powers. I understand there is no current Role of "Stalker" though if I wanted to play a Stalker, then I'd be playing that "other" game. It's free too so I can play both if I chose to.
This game I play as I could build a "Stalker" through the combination of power selections; specializations; statistics; equipment & the role I chose will ultimately realize the archetype of a Stalker. This power just prepackages a specific playstyle in one. It's essentially no different than what we have now in that selecting Sneak assumes one to only be a Stalker.
I also don't believe a passive should ever grant additional powers either. I could see Forms doing something like that as it's an active choice to assume a Stance. Then from their you would have a selection of powers that can be done in exiting that stance. But passives are passive.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Its on a 1 min 30 sec cooldown, hits for 15k with my char that I dont even have specs or talents assigned. Both pve-wise and pvp-wise make me scratch my head. Pve-wise such a massive amount of damage at the beginning of the fight, will make you to get aggro automatically on the boss, unless your tank is good, or you timed your initial assault (waited a few secs before engaging). Pvp... yup, sounds like 1 hit kills unless it has a different interaction with players.
Well, I crit mobs for 28k with it, so I just hope it won't work in PvP
As for PvE... One-shoting supervillains could be fun, but do we really WANT it?
Well, I crit mobs for 28k with it, so I just hope it won't work in PvP
As for PvE... One-shoting supervillains could be fun, but do we really WANT it?
You do realize we have Unleashed Rage, anyone over 35 can take it and build it with melee damage it will crit those numbers easy, PBAoE, same CD as shadow strike, and no sneak requirement. (Yes, PBAoE dealing over 20k per target, I've observed it, its scary)
Boomerang Throw crit from Stealth + 8 Focus stacks into a group of test dummies
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 13857 (13585) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 11453 (12598) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 11471 (12618) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 11111 (12222) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 10611 (11672) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 10007 (11008) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 10380 (11418) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 9793 (10772) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Your Boomerang Throw deals 9344 (10279) Crushing Damage to Test Dummy.
Shadow Strike crit from Stealth + 8 focus stacks + 50% severity buff
[Combat (Self)] Your Shadow Strike deals 45457 (44566) Slashing Damage to Test Dummy.
Strafing Run and Gas Pellets are not buffed by ranged nor melee damage boosts.
Unable to pick most talents due to a scroll bug which causes the window to scroll to the top with every click.
EDIT: Above numbers were while in the hybrid role.
Its currently sounding like people don't mind so I guess that's fine in the end.
/snip
I may be biased towards NW because makes you a stalker and COX was my only other MMO experience.
If you have some ideas of an alternate way to approach NW then don't let any one stop you. Considering how tight these PTS schedules are, the sooner any feedback gets in, the more likely it will be considered.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
EDIT: Above numbers were while in the hybrid role.
Can you give some more info about you build?
Also, how did you get the crit severity buff from smoke bomb lunge and stay in sneak?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I personally have a big issue with a "passive" power granting two active powers. Mechanically, it's basically saying "Ignore the power point purchase restrictions as just taking Night Warrior will you give you a Become Device".
I think you're looking at it wrong.
We've always had powers that do little more than grant what equates to a stat buff, now we've got a passive power that grants a few other odds and ends powers instead of a stat buff. Given this, the choice you're making isn't against other powers, but other stat benefits, I. E. dodge and stat boosts from Quarry or a healing bonus from Serephim.
As a concept, it's not bad, because it's more or less something that's already been there in another form.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
Also, how did you get the crit severity buff from smoke bomb lunge and stay in sneak?
DEX primary SS with PRE/CON secondary SS (using my healer since she's got the best gear despite not being optimal since the offense pieces have +healing). ~350 DEX and PRE with ~75 CON. Vindicator/Guardian specs and I used Dexterity Mastery. Crit severity was around 113%.
Evasive Maneuvers w/ adv allows you to drop out of combat.
Yes, it also still crashes for me. Fix please, if it's something which can be fixed
I'm mostly afraid that, if the update goes on live and behaves same way we and alot of people will have a serious problem. Time to look for a new game just in case...
I tried to get the error number from the crash before crash helper disappeared, couldn't time a screenshot but I think the code might be 11500036, I'm not entirely sure about the number of zeroes and the last 2 digits. :rolleyes:
EDIT: Above numbers were while in the hybrid role.
Boomerang Throw probably isn't...but Shadow Strike has the sneak requirement and a 90 second base cooldown, again, Unleashed ranged, PBAoE, 20k+ crits, and 90 second base cooldown, NO special requirements other than having Enrage stacks (rather easy with something like Force Geyser).
EDIT: Furthermore, Unleshed Rage can get those numbers with a defensive passive such as defiance, Night Warrior is an offensive passive and is the only thing that allows Shadow Strike, meaning you are going to be pretty squishy. (If you get Electric Form and meleedamage role, Unleashed Rage can hit upwards 30k crits)
I may be biased towards NW because makes you a stalker and COX was my only other MMO experience.
If you have some ideas of an alternate way to approach NW then don't let any one stop you. Considering how tight these PTS schedules are, the sooner any feedback gets in, the more likely it will be considered.
No worries, like I said I get where you are coming from and you play this game too.
I actually initially proposed to consider converting Sneak into an aspect for a new block replacer in the previous patch. I'll quote the proposal following this response. Though I understand its also a "looks good on paper" thing in that I have no way of testing it as I don't have the ability to make it physically to compare it from what we have here right now.
It would help to alleviate any concerns to have input from the designers on whether they've explored the option or not but that's honestly a bigger issue outside of the scope of this topic.
Night Warrior: This actually feels weird and very unweildly as a power selection. And by force-associating it with an offensive passive limits it to only be used with Hybrid and Offensive Roles.
As I was messing with it however I started thinking how it "could" be more desireable and an idea popped up.
Maybe instead have Sneak as a Block Replacer. How it could work:
* Player holds Block and after X seconds without taking damage or getting attacked; it shifts into the Sneak stance.
* As long as the player holds Block down and is not attacked, the Sneak and it's Stealth attributes are refreshed until it releasing the Block.
* At which point Block is released, the Stealth attributes of Sneak have a duration of X seconds after the releasing Block in which the player can attack a target for extra damage/crit and any secondary benefits of those powers used.
* Active Sneaking will refresh the duration any stealth/placate effects applied by other powers such as Smoke Bomb.
Sneak should have the feel of a conscious & active maintenance of its stance rather than just a set & forget Toggle in such a way that Block already works. Also both powers force the player to move at basically the same speed while active so it's feels like a more natural transition between states.
Also the advantage: Silent Running could be made to only apply when the Block successfully transitions into Sneak. In which it would not only be a desirable & unique Block Replacer, but also work as an alternate stealth ability to Evasive Maneuvers in getting out of harms way.
We've always had powers that do little more than grant what equates to a stat buff, now we've got a passive power that grants a few other odds and ends powers instead of a stat buff. Given this, the choice you're making isn't against other powers, but other stat benefits, I. E. dodge and stat boosts from Quarry or a healing bonus from Serephim.
As a concept, it's not bad, because it's more or less something that's already been there in another form.
As a concept for anything but the slotted passive, yes it's not bad. Though stat buffs and passive influences (i.e. auras; If->Then buff stacks; etc) make sense. Those are change conditions that are reactive by nature. Click and Toggle powers are actions. It's kind of a reason certain powers are called Active Offense/Defense.
I could see a passive that provides bonuses to being in stealth or buffs existing and active stealth powers. Also buffing the damage output of powers while in stealth. those are all passive influences.
Another analogy is say having the power Personal Force Field granting access to Field Surge. Or Regeneration granting Resurgence, where if you don't pick the former, you can't use the latter. Thus forcing players who pick the former to conform to a role and playstyle.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
however, night warrior in itself is supposed to conform you to a playstyle.
EDIT: Further clarification, I meant to say Night Warrior is intended to be used as a rouge, stealthy, squishy, not tanky or any hybridized version, thats why it can have access to powers like Shadow Strike and Sneak.
EDIT: Further clarification, I meant to say Night Warrior is intended to be used as a rouge, stealthy, squishy, not tanky or any hybridized version, thats why it can have access to powers like Shadow Strike and Sneak.
Taking that edit into account; promoting the benefits of power combos is cool; gating powers for the sake of conformity is not. Also that it's that intention of conformity is what's the issue here. It's not a "can have" its a "you only get if...".
I don't have any issues to a Shadow Strike in the way I don't with Dragon Attacks. But Way of the Warrior doesn't force a Dragon Attack on me or force me to use it.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Boomerang Throw probably isn't...but Shadow Strike has the sneak requirement and a 90 second base cooldown, again, Unleashed ranged, PBAoE, 20k+ crits, and 90 second base cooldown, NO special requirements other than having Enrage stacks (rather easy with something like Force Geyser).
EDIT: Furthermore, Unleshed Rage can get those numbers with a defensive passive such as defiance, Night Warrior is an offensive passive and is the only thing that allows Shadow Strike, meaning you are going to be pretty squishy. (If you get Electric Form and meleedamage role, Unleashed Rage can hit upwards 30k crits)
I saw GC on test last week and he seemed to think Boomerang was due for a nerf.
As far as shadow strike, i think the best way to tell if its over-performing is to run some alerts with it. I would be open to run some alerts if someone would set up a time (too bad its not the weekend). Devs, feel welcome to join.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I'm mostly afraid that, if the update goes on live and behaves same way we and alot of people will have a serious problem. Time to look for a new game just in case...
Now isn't that nice? Well, we can just hope they find whatever is causing this mess then. I'd post an error code, but the message disappears before showing anything. :rolleyes:
I'm not that good with build synergy and min/maxing but i would be interested to hear from people who are.
Are there any strange new synergy's that come from an offensive passive that buffs all damage types?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I'm not that good with build synergy and min/maxing but i would be interested to hear from people who are.
Are there any strange new synergy's that come from an offensive passive that buffs all damage types?
Of the top of my head; I'd try Sniper Rifle and/or Holdout Shot (at low energy) paired with Lock N Load & Imbue and Concentration as the Form Power. Have Evasive Maneuvers as well. Should produce some interesting results.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
I'm not that good with build synergy and min/maxing but i would be interested to hear from people who are.
Are there any strange new synergy's that come from an offensive passive that buffs all damage types?
Yes? Here's one, stealth Sniper, this is the foremost reason why I want it to be Melee primarily and ranged second.
Yes? Here's one, stealth Sniper, this is the foremost reason why I want it to be Melee primarily and ranged second.
Well it's set that way now as far as the bonus damage for Single Target Attacks. I'd say it's not good enough of a difference compared to the gains that could be made.
It's also part of that Sneak as a Block Replacer proposal I presented where that the active duration of the stealth buff is balanced more towards melee attack charge times rather than ranged.
A person couldn't charge Sniper Rifle in time before the Sneak duration wears off. And one would have to release Block in order to use Sniper Rifle in the first place.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Seems that shadow strike lunge is a n brainer to add to any melee build.
Shadow Strike is only accesible for those with Night Warrior, its appropriate, since it requires sneak to be worth anything, if you can't get into sneak, you can't use it for meaningful damage, if you're DoTd...you can't get into sneak. boom, scissors beats paper.
Shadow Strike is only accesible for those with Night Warrior, its appropriate, since it requires sneak to be worth anything, if you can't get into sneak, you can't use it for meaningful damage, if you're DoTd...you can't get into sneak. boom, scissors beats paper.
I hope Shadow Strike is low aggro; otherwise, it could be really suicidal to use it in a group.
__________________________________________________ Our society has traded responsibility for entitlement. It's time for a change.
Yes? Here's one, stealth Sniper, this is the foremost reason why I want it to be Melee primarily and ranged second.
How would this be over powered and are you talking about op in pvp or pve?
The devs seem to have built the passive with ranged snipers in mind. I'm not saying stealth snipers aren't op but i haven't seen any proof that they are either.
I was thinking more along the lines of using the best energy unlock with the best AOE or mixing buffs/debuffs that cant normally work together.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Shadow Strike is only accesible for those with Night Warrior, its appropriate, since it requires sneak to be worth anything, if you can't get into sneak, you can't use it for meaningful damage, if you're DoTd...you can't get into sneak. boom, scissors beats paper.
One can use Smoke Bomb; Ego Placate or Evasive Maneuvers with the Advantage instead of Sneak without ever touching Sneak.
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The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
One can use Smoke Bomb; Ego Placate or Evasive Maneuvers with the Advantage instead of Sneak without ever touching Sneak.
Does Ego Placate put you into stealth?
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
How would this be over powered and are you talking about op in pvp or pve?
The devs seem to have built the passive with ranged snipers in mind. I'm not saying stealth snipers aren't op but i haven't seen any proof that they are either.
I was thinking more along the lines of using the best energy unlock with the best AOE or mixing buffs/debuffs that cant normally work together.
It's not that it's not viable. Consider the distance/time it takes for any melee character to notice and respond to a stealth sniper. This is both considering PvE critters and PvP players. The player could be out of threat range and just use Sneaking as an additional damage buff stack safely. Someone at Sniper Range (especially using Travel Powers) doesn't need Sneak to be effective.
I've actually watched someone solo Telieosaurus using Sniper Rifle & Flight with little to no risk. I'm sure that's not intended. Having Sneak as a buff on top of that is just making something that shouldn't happen much easier to do.
Consider the distance/time it takes for any melee character to notice and respond to a stealth sniper. This is both considering PvE critters and PvP players.
I've actually watched someone solo Telieosaurus using Sniper Rifle & Flight with little to no risk. I'm sure that's not intended. Having Sneak as a buff on top of that is just making something that shouldn't happen much easier to do.
I can see where that may be a problem. People are already saying range has the advantage in pvp. Being kited on a melee toon by someone with defile and sneak would be painful considering that most builds wont be able to lunge at someone thats sneaking. But at the same time i like the idea of stealth sniping in some limited form.
Night Warrior: This new passive increases all damage and grants the use of the Sneak power.
Some powers gain an additional secondary benefit when used while sneaking.
Maybe its time we decide what these "some powers" are.
Ranged powers that probably should work with sneak: "blast" powers:
NW grants reduced charge time, blast powers also have access to specializations that reduce charge times of blast powers. Blast powers are kind of under used any way so if you make a build focused on them, it should be rewarding. Sniper rifle:
sniper rifle has such a long charge time, i think it deserves this.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Yes? Here's one, stealth Sniper, this is the foremost reason why I want it to be Melee primarily and ranged second.
We already got those. Just in the form of Smoke nade+adv. followed by the sniper/focused shot.
I still think the correlation between combat mode and sneak should be fleshed out better. i.e. dot's disable you to get out of combat mode et cetera.
Also what about Shadowform? Can something nice be done for Shadowform's stealth as well? Maybe make Night Warrior for melee powers or physical powers and Shadowform for ranged or magic powers?
We already got those. Just in the form of Smoke nade+adv. followed by the sniper/focused shot.
I still think the correlation between combat mode and sneak should be fleshed out better. i.e. dot's disable you to get out of combat mode et cetera.
Also what about Shadowform? Can something nice be done for Shadowform's stealth as well? Maybe make Night Warrior for melee powers or physical powers and Shadowform for ranged or magic powers?
Well, the stealth in shadow form is more of an "effect for flavor" - it still provides all the normal benefits of an offensive form plus stealth AND a minor HoT. I don't think it should get any meaningful degree of stealth. I could see a separate offensive passive being added that deals with stealth and ranged attacks, specifically.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
So I finally got to log in and test those different combinations
Smoke Grenade and Ego Placate don't count as Stealth so I guess we're cool there. Shame but well..
Evasive Maneuvers + adv and Smoke Bomb do.
Adding Night Warrior without using Sneak.
I was able to tack on a full charge of Sniper Rifle at the tail end of the Stealth duration of Evasive Maneuvers and it applied the damage bonus as expected.
I could easily charge up a Sniper Rifle within the duration of Smoke Grenade and the damage bonus applied as expected.
I tried an 8 stack of Concentration + Imbue applying Sneak and then Using Sniper Rifle. I got about could get easily above the 5k range damage at level 40 without any gear equipped and only selecting Ego, Constitution & Endurance as my super stats. (No talents or innate stat contributions or additional buffs).
The base damage of sniper rifle at this setup was somewhere within 1,900 or so, so I mean there are ways to force a Crit to multiply the damage. Just didn't have time to experiment too much other than with Steady Shot.
So imagining if I tried hard to stat and apply additional buffs accordingly it should go up from there, so feel free to experiment with it as better people than me can find better combinations. I only spent like 15 minutes on it.
I tried messing with Holdout Shot a little and made it go from 136 at full energy to like 900+. but I didn't play too much with it as I ran out of time. Feel free to mess with that too. In combination of an auto-crit + low energy. Gear up and tweak. I'm curious how it plays out myself.
Again, these were just quick "jump in and see" tests, numbers are a bit dirty but I encourage someone else to give it a more comprehensive analysis.
_____________
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Guy flying in the air and sniping Teleiosaur to death? I bet that takes at least an hour. That's Sniper Rifle's 'thing.' So please, don't cut off it's 'thing' just because Night Warrior exists.
... good night, everybody!
In any case, the Night Warrior passive seems to be VERY interesting, and I'm very excited for Boomerang. I so wanna make a martial arts/gadget-user a la a certain man who takes after a bat.
Not only does the webbased character copy tool not allow you to pick more than the first 5 characters on your account, but you can't copy a character over if there is another instance of that character already existing on PTS.
So I can't test anything for you. NOTHING.
So Good Luck with your patch until such time you decide to fix this stuff.
I don't know if this is intended, but Shadow Strike cannot be used with a travel power active. It is always 2 energy more than you have and cannot be used. Turn TP off, you're fine.
I don't really agree with the dodge buff on the passive.. Stealth is its own reward.
I think stealth should be stronger for PvP purposes. I think teleport should be as weak as the OLD sneak was for PvP purposes.
I think these one shot kills should be possible in PvP but require panning and strategy. I would like to see a larger charge time applied to the Shadow Strike powers.. making them a tad harder to get off.
You and your "Nerf nerf nerf" all you do is complain about crap instead of suggesting improvements, you should take into account how unlikely it is to actually pull off that 40-45k crit incombat, in PvP, anyone with Perception gear can see you, so Shadow Strike is already nulled unless you can debuff there perception and stack a lot of stealth (which you cant in melee range, if they have enough perception) oh, and Night Warrior gives only half the dodge bost WotW does, while it also gives a larger damage buff to melee physical damage, out of sneak, If anything, you should request a change to WotW to IMPROVE IT aswell as change Unstoppable and IMPROVE it.
Looking at the numbers, I can't honestly say that Shadow Strike is remotely balanced, either. I'd hate to see other passives 'improved' to this level if that's what is considered the new 'balance' point.
Mudflation is horrible. Pulling a 40+k crit off even a tenth of the time is ridiculous on it's face. Having an advantage with that huge of a CritSev buff is patently ridiculous as well (let alone one that has it as a persistent, base bonus - looking at you, Dragon's Claw).
I have to agree with Kaiserin and Falchoin's initial assessment of this - if this is intended, this is crap.
Comments
That's evil. Very good evil, but still evil.
(side long glance) Katy Perry? (walks away smiling)
Very evil
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Yup. again.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Thanks for admitting that these designs may or may not be terribly made. But its kind of the staff's fault for not choosing good ones or ones that followed the rules of the contest. (referring to that dual villain winner)
#1 Zen are up instead of C-points
#2 Smoke Bomb advantage has a cooldown, I think its 10 seconds. Also the critical severity effect can be consumed by your energy builder. Interesting.
Interesting.... well there goes my only objection on people spamming this lunge for the advantage.
Edit: the internal cooldown seems to be waaay longer than 10 seconds, need to do more testing when I have time... also with night warrior got a power called "shadow strike" its INSANELY powerful. Its a non charged that has 1 min cooldown or so, that does massive single target damage while stealthed. I did easily a 20k crit... with 50% crit severity lol, the normal hits of shadow strike are 15k.... yeah I can see peeps crying on pvp over this one.
Edit #2: DEERP! just noticed the description of the advantage of smoke lunge says that you have to lunge from 50 feet away for it to trigger. There's no internal cooldown. Still I am happy with it, believe it or not feels balanced considering there's factors like your EB consuming this buff.
Edit #3: I am not even sure if the advantage triggers all the time or its just a random buff, I just dont seem to be able to get the buff consistently, even from lunging from more than 50 feet.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
I'm unable to test this at this time but with Night Warrior. So does it grant 2 powers this time? Or did they switch out sneak with this new Shadow Strike?
From what you are saying with Shadow Strike, that doesn't sound "fun".
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
You get sneak and shadow strike. Personally, so far i think its fun.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Thanks for the response.
I personally have a big issue with a "passive" power granting two active powers. Mechanically, it's basically saying "Ignore the power point purchase restrictions as just taking Night Warrior will you give you a Become Device".
That being said, others will have a different opinion because it's exactly what they want "now" or they may be settling for this over no changes to stealth at all. I don't have the ability to break the game open and physically make an alternative proposal at making stealth more viable. So there is no way I could convince other players that this is probably not a "long term" good thing for Night Warrior to do so. If they're happy with it then its fine.
So just addressing the design team working on this at this time; Sorry, I think I'll pass on Night Warrior. My opinion is that in its current inception I feel it's game-breaking rather than game-changing though I understand its probably already too late to go back to the drawing board with this one. All the other powers seem nice so awesome job in bringing those ones to life.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Seems it grants 2 powers now. I am not sure how it happened, it wasn't on my skill bar before on the char I am testing the new powers.
All I know its that it appeared on my skill bar when I retconned my char and relearned the new powers. Maybe its a bug that I have access to this power (which would explain the insane amount of damage), maybe its not.
Its on a 1 min 30 sec cooldown, hits for 15k with my char that I dont even have specs or talents assigned. Both pve-wise and pvp-wise make me scratch my head. Pve-wise such a massive amount of damage at the beginning of the fight, will make you to get aggro automatically on the boss, unless your tank is good, or you timed your initial assault (waited a few secs before engaging). Pvp... yup, sounds like 1 hit kills unless it has a different interaction with players.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Click up there if you want to find more about the costumes behind my heroines.
Sneak:
PVE:
Sneak can be used in combat. This solves a lot of problems. This doesn't seem to break agro so you have to time it rite because giving or taking dmg will break sneak.
The cool-down on shadow strike seems to keep combat sneak from being op
When you sneak, and run away, you don't have to run as far to break mob agro.
You can use just about any non damaging Crowd Control power without breaking sneak. I like this for PVE because CC isn't that good in pve, but this could be pretty OP in pvp.
The taunt from melee energy builders (at range) argos mobs from sneak the first time, but if you agro with your EB (at range) and then break los and and re-inter sneak you can then build energy from sneak at range. I don't have a problem with this by it self, but you can then throw gas pellets from sneak without breaking agro and while still building energy. This allows you to AOE groups of mobs to death from sneak w/o agro.
I guess you can do the same thing with ego sprites and sleep but it seems wrong.
PVP:
It seems that your average build can see through sneak in pvp but cant attack (unless you use attacks that don't use targeting). Powers like epidemic, sword cyclone, Fissure ect will be very resistant to night warriors.
Shadow strike is the bomb. In pvp but obviously, you cant lunge + shadow strike without breaking sneak. In a test dual, my opponent was able to see me and keep running out of melee range to prevent me from getting shadow strike off.
You can sneak + teleport. This isn't so bad because your movement speed is reduced as soon as you come out of tp. This may become an issue when you can have 2 travel powers. Sneak + teleport + acrobatics probably wont make you much deadlier offensively but would probably make you tough to kill. Teleport already makes you tough to kill on its own.
You can use Ego Hold (and any non damaging hold but ego hold lets you move while charging) without breaking sneak. Im ok with being able to charge a hold without breaking sneak but applying a hold/CC should probably break sneak.
Another example is that you can use entangling mesh without breaking sneak making for ez prey for your shadow strike.
You may want to investigate the way sneak, teleport and Smoke bomb interact.
The above stated combo would be far less dangerous in pvp if we had the old perception gear from pre "on alert"
Shadow Strike:
I love it, but some one may figure out a combo that makes it broken. Please don't change it too much.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Thanks for the reply.
Yeah with the numbers itself I would initially say that "could" be tuned through playtesting, though fundamentally; would you like to be pidgin-holed to a specific playstyle by the choice of a single power?
Its currently sounding like people don't mind so I guess that's fine in the end. Though I don't carry the belief an open-power choice system was ever intended to promote that. I don't pick Defiance or Invulnerability and think I'm a Tank that's how I'm expected to play. If I selected the Role: Tank, then yeah sure. I'm communicating that to the team that I'm prepared to play as one.
I see Role choices restricting power choices and playstyles though not individual powers. I understand there is no current Role of "Stalker" though if I wanted to play a Stalker, then I'd be playing that "other" game. It's free too so I can play both if I chose to.
This game I play as I could build a "Stalker" through the combination of power selections; specializations; statistics; equipment & the role I chose will ultimately realize the archetype of a Stalker. This power just prepackages a specific playstyle in one. It's essentially no different than what we have now in that selecting Sneak assumes one to only be a Stalker.
I also don't believe a passive should ever grant additional powers either. I could see Forms doing something like that as it's an active choice to assume a Stance. Then from their you would have a selection of powers that can be done in exiting that stance. But passives are passive.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Well, I crit mobs for 28k with it, so I just hope it won't work in PvP
As for PvE... One-shoting supervillains could be fun, but do we really WANT it?
Big guide of power DPS
You do realize we have Unleashed Rage, anyone over 35 can take it and build it with melee damage it will crit those numbers easy, PBAoE, same CD as shadow strike, and no sneak requirement. (Yes, PBAoE dealing over 20k per target, I've observed it, its scary)
Strafing Run and Gas Pellets are not buffed by ranged nor melee damage boosts.
Unable to pick most talents due to a scroll bug which causes the window to scroll to the top with every click.
EDIT: Above numbers were while in the hybrid role.
I may be biased towards NW because makes you a stalker and COX was my only other MMO experience.
If you have some ideas of an alternate way to approach NW then don't let any one stop you. Considering how tight these PTS schedules are, the sooner any feedback gets in, the more likely it will be considered.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Can you give some more info about you build?
Also, how did you get the crit severity buff from smoke bomb lunge and stay in sneak?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Yes, it also still crashes for me. Fix please, if it's something which can be fixed
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
I think you're looking at it wrong.
We've always had powers that do little more than grant what equates to a stat buff, now we've got a passive power that grants a few other odds and ends powers instead of a stat buff. Given this, the choice you're making isn't against other powers, but other stat benefits, I. E. dodge and stat boosts from Quarry or a healing bonus from Serephim.
As a concept, it's not bad, because it's more or less something that's already been there in another form.
...I just recently realized something really disturbing. We're all eating Sodapop3's "humble pie."
DEX primary SS with PRE/CON secondary SS (using my healer since she's got the best gear despite not being optimal since the offense pieces have +healing). ~350 DEX and PRE with ~75 CON. Vindicator/Guardian specs and I used Dexterity Mastery. Crit severity was around 113%.
Evasive Maneuvers w/ adv allows you to drop out of combat.
I'm mostly afraid that, if the update goes on live and behaves same way we and alot of people will have a serious problem. Time to look for a new game just in case...
Brick_McDuggins in game.
Boomerang Throw probably isn't...but Shadow Strike has the sneak requirement and a 90 second base cooldown, again, Unleashed ranged, PBAoE, 20k+ crits, and 90 second base cooldown, NO special requirements other than having Enrage stacks (rather easy with something like Force Geyser).
EDIT: Furthermore, Unleshed Rage can get those numbers with a defensive passive such as defiance, Night Warrior is an offensive passive and is the only thing that allows Shadow Strike, meaning you are going to be pretty squishy. (If you get Electric Form and meleedamage role, Unleashed Rage can hit upwards 30k crits)
No worries, like I said I get where you are coming from and you play this game too.
I actually initially proposed to consider converting Sneak into an aspect for a new block replacer in the previous patch. I'll quote the proposal following this response. Though I understand its also a "looks good on paper" thing in that I have no way of testing it as I don't have the ability to make it physically to compare it from what we have here right now.
It would help to alleviate any concerns to have input from the designers on whether they've explored the option or not but that's honestly a bigger issue outside of the scope of this topic.
As a concept for anything but the slotted passive, yes it's not bad. Though stat buffs and passive influences (i.e. auras; If->Then buff stacks; etc) make sense. Those are change conditions that are reactive by nature. Click and Toggle powers are actions. It's kind of a reason certain powers are called Active Offense/Defense.
I could see a passive that provides bonuses to being in stealth or buffs existing and active stealth powers. Also buffing the damage output of powers while in stealth. those are all passive influences.
Another analogy is say having the power Personal Force Field granting access to Field Surge. Or Regeneration granting Resurgence, where if you don't pick the former, you can't use the latter. Thus forcing players who pick the former to conform to a role and playstyle.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
EDIT: Further clarification, I meant to say Night Warrior is intended to be used as a rouge, stealthy, squishy, not tanky or any hybridized version, thats why it can have access to powers like Shadow Strike and Sneak.
And why would I suddenly start agreeing with the introduction of Night Warrior in it's current inception after all I just said?
Taking that edit into account; promoting the benefits of power combos is cool; gating powers for the sake of conformity is not. Also that it's that intention of conformity is what's the issue here. It's not a "can have" its a "you only get if...".
I don't have any issues to a Shadow Strike in the way I don't with Dragon Attacks. But Way of the Warrior doesn't force a Dragon Attack on me or force me to use it.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
I saw GC on test last week and he seemed to think Boomerang was due for a nerf.
As far as shadow strike, i think the best way to tell if its over-performing is to run some alerts with it. I would be open to run some alerts if someone would set up a time (too bad its not the weekend). Devs, feel welcome to join.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Now isn't that nice? Well, we can just hope they find whatever is causing this mess then. I'd post an error code, but the message disappears before showing anything. :rolleyes:
The Doctor on the PDB
Fahrenheit on the PDB
Are there any strange new synergy's that come from an offensive passive that buffs all damage types?
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
Of the top of my head; I'd try Sniper Rifle and/or Holdout Shot (at low energy) paired with Lock N Load & Imbue and Concentration as the Form Power. Have Evasive Maneuvers as well. Should produce some interesting results.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Yes? Here's one, stealth Sniper, this is the foremost reason why I want it to be Melee primarily and ranged second.
Well it's set that way now as far as the bonus damage for Single Target Attacks. I'd say it's not good enough of a difference compared to the gains that could be made.
It's also part of that Sneak as a Block Replacer proposal I presented where that the active duration of the stealth buff is balanced more towards melee attack charge times rather than ranged.
A person couldn't charge Sniper Rifle in time before the Sneak duration wears off. And one would have to release Block in order to use Sniper Rifle in the first place.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Shadow Strike is only accesible for those with Night Warrior, its appropriate, since it requires sneak to be worth anything, if you can't get into sneak, you can't use it for meaningful damage, if you're DoTd...you can't get into sneak. boom, scissors beats paper.
I hope Shadow Strike is low aggro; otherwise, it could be really suicidal to use it in a group.
Our society has traded responsibility for entitlement. It's time for a change.
How would this be over powered and are you talking about op in pvp or pve?
The devs seem to have built the passive with ranged snipers in mind. I'm not saying stealth snipers aren't op but i haven't seen any proof that they are either.
I was thinking more along the lines of using the best energy unlock with the best AOE or mixing buffs/debuffs that cant normally work together.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
One can use Smoke Bomb; Ego Placate or Evasive Maneuvers with the Advantage instead of Sneak without ever touching Sneak.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Does Ego Placate put you into stealth?
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
It's not that it's not viable. Consider the distance/time it takes for any melee character to notice and respond to a stealth sniper. This is both considering PvE critters and PvP players. The player could be out of threat range and just use Sneaking as an additional damage buff stack safely. Someone at Sniper Range (especially using Travel Powers) doesn't need Sneak to be effective.
I've actually watched someone solo Telieosaurus using Sniper Rifle & Flight with little to no risk. I'm sure that's not intended. Having Sneak as a buff on top of that is just making something that shouldn't happen much easier to do.
Physically yes, mechanically may not be registered as a "Stealth". Same question can be applied to Smoke Grenade. It's worth testing.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
Ranged powers that probably should work with sneak:
"blast" powers:
NW grants reduced charge time, blast powers also have access to specializations that reduce charge times of blast powers. Blast powers are kind of under used any way so if you make a build focused on them, it should be rewarding.
Sniper rifle:
sniper rifle has such a long charge time, i think it deserves this.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
We already got those. Just in the form of Smoke nade+adv. followed by the sniper/focused shot.
I still think the correlation between combat mode and sneak should be fleshed out better. i.e. dot's disable you to get out of combat mode et cetera.
Also what about Shadowform? Can something nice be done for Shadowform's stealth as well? Maybe make Night Warrior for melee powers or physical powers and Shadowform for ranged or magic powers?
Well, the stealth in shadow form is more of an "effect for flavor" - it still provides all the normal benefits of an offensive form plus stealth AND a minor HoT. I don't think it should get any meaningful degree of stealth. I could see a separate offensive passive being added that deals with stealth and ranged attacks, specifically.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Smoke Grenade and Ego Placate don't count as Stealth so I guess we're cool there. Shame but well..
Evasive Maneuvers + adv and Smoke Bomb do.
Adding Night Warrior without using Sneak.
I tried an 8 stack of Concentration + Imbue applying Sneak and then Using Sniper Rifle. I got about could get easily above the 5k range damage at level 40 without any gear equipped and only selecting Ego, Constitution & Endurance as my super stats. (No talents or innate stat contributions or additional buffs).
The base damage of sniper rifle at this setup was somewhere within 1,900 or so, so I mean there are ways to force a Crit to multiply the damage. Just didn't have time to experiment too much other than with Steady Shot.
So imagining if I tried hard to stat and apply additional buffs accordingly it should go up from there, so feel free to experiment with it as better people than me can find better combinations. I only spent like 15 minutes on it.
I tried messing with Holdout Shot a little and made it go from 136 at full energy to like 900+. but I didn't play too much with it as I ran out of time. Feel free to mess with that too. In combination of an auto-crit + low energy. Gear up and tweak. I'm curious how it plays out myself.
Again, these were just quick "jump in and see" tests, numbers are a bit dirty but I encourage someone else to give it a more comprehensive analysis.
The guy who formally posted as @Sky_Commander. Now posts as: "劫"
... good night, everybody!
In any case, the Night Warrior passive seems to be VERY interesting, and I'm very excited for Boomerang. I so wanna make a martial arts/gadget-user a la a certain man who takes after a bat.
Not only does the webbased character copy tool not allow you to pick more than the first 5 characters on your account, but you can't copy a character over if there is another instance of that character already existing on PTS.
So I can't test anything for you. NOTHING.
So Good Luck with your patch until such time you decide to fix this stuff.
My Characters on PRIMUS
Toons and costumes thread
@Benevon
Leader of Super Serious Brooding Vigilantes
I think stealth should be stronger for PvP purposes. I think teleport should be as weak as the OLD sneak was for PvP purposes.
I think these one shot kills should be possible in PvP but require panning and strategy. I would like to see a larger charge time applied to the Shadow Strike powers.. making them a tad harder to get off.
Looking at the numbers, I can't honestly say that Shadow Strike is remotely balanced, either. I'd hate to see other passives 'improved' to this level if that's what is considered the new 'balance' point.
Mudflation is horrible. Pulling a 40+k crit off even a tenth of the time is ridiculous on it's face. Having an advantage with that huge of a CritSev buff is patently ridiculous as well (let alone one that has it as a persistent, base bonus - looking at you, Dragon's Claw).
I have to agree with Kaiserin and Falchoin's initial assessment of this - if this is intended, this is crap.
[SIGPIC]Also, this poster rambles.[/SIGPIC]