you already can make any character you want. Just like with any freedom there are still limitations. I'm not against your idea, but some things should take priority. This game already has the most unique and extensive customization of any MMO out there, but so far its lagging behind in content. Most of the MMOs that came out the same year as champions F2P or not, have already had even larger content expansions than simply a new zone.
Hehe, but I understand perfectly and I agree: we need content before looks, but we can always add to the list...
Look what Tumerboy did for the Powerhouse: it wasn't scheduled, yet he did it on the side.
I just say 'it might be nice someday", not now. ^^ (And I somewhat trust them to sort priorities)
Hehe, but I understand perfectly and I agree: we need content before looks, but we can always add to the list...
Look what Tumerboy did for the Powerhouse: it wasn't scheduled, yet he did it on the side.
I just say 'it might be nice someday", not now. ^^ (And I somewhat trust them to sort priorities)
"While Molly was sort of short and balanced in her own universe, it seems crossing to ours has heavily altered her body. The lower part remained as it was, but she grew very tall and her bust reached epic size. Being so top-heavy made her extremely clumsy, and she often looses balance, as shown by the bruises and scratches on her knees."
Again, sorry this took so long. Your patience is appreciated.
I'd almost say it's disingenuous to state he's not a classic and common example of male objectification.
Ill start right here. Let me explain the context Im talking from here and maybe Ill make my dispute clearer. The reason we go to the trouble of identifying objectification of people in our media is, because, its bad. Yeah, I wrapped that in a real riddle there. Seriously though, we dislike objectification of women because it sets unrealistically high or simply irresponsible expectations of women in both their appearance and behavior, and then leaves girls wondering whats wrong with them if they cant meet those standards.
So when we talk about the objectification of men, the equivalent examples should do the same thing. Kindly hold onto this thought, Ill be coming back to it.
Barbie stuff
I wasnt saying that products featuring female objectification have to appeal to men. I was saying that female objectification itself appeals to men (and certain kinds of women, I guess). Its a tricky difference, so Ill elaborate.
The demographic of the example you use, Barbie, is unquestionably young girls. The physical traits of Barbie dolls, on the other hand, are probably lost on young girls. But, the purpose of Barbie dolls, aside from allowing Mattel to print money, is to be an ideal woman, hence Barbie having had every profession under the sun. Naturally, children are going to emulate ideals, and one of the ideals that Barbie puts forth is her, literally, unnatural figure, which appeals to men.
So, the objectification here isnt who Barbies are sold to, but what theyre training young girls to be. On a sidenote, Ive always thought Barbie catches too much flak on this front: methinks your average girl probably has the sense to know that maybe the doll with no nipples might not be the best role model of physique. Still, my point remains, that the purpose of female objectification is to promote traits that appeal to men.
Again, to talk about the objectification of men, the equivalent example should do the same thing. Still holding on? Good, Im about to cash in my Focus stacks.
I would still say that Conan qualifies even there. He has an epic tale of legend longer then most small countries have history, is a 'king' more often then not, and is still Hulking it out something fierce in his old age.
And now Ill bring it around. Heres why I posted in this thread at all to begin with: people complain (understandably) about objectification when they see scantily clad women prancing about in their media. Then, other people point out that the same thing happens to men (correctly so), and point at the first scantily clad piece of beefcake off the top of their heads. That last part is what gets my fingers on the keyboard. When I see that, I feel that people are only making the easy and superficial comparison and not getting at the root of the issue.
When were talking about male objectification, what Im saying is that we should be talking about the traits that society puts pressure on both men and women to emulate. For women, thats being a sex kitten, among other things. As a man though, I dont feel any particular pressure to win the Mr. Olympia. Its been a while since weve seen a Charles Atlas ad anywhere. However, I do feel pressure to be a badass with complete temerity of flouting authority and to tread into tricky social situations with a douchebag smile.
Does Conan do those things? Sure. But theyre on the periphery of his character: you say Conan, people think beefcake. Or funny redhead guy. Heres all Im saying: there are better examples to choose.
Oh, yeah, Im still totally all about a waist slider. Woo.
But I completely, completely agree. It isnt just about being able to make overweight characters its about variety. We make far from only human characters and the range of the sliders have a huge impact on the range were able to create. I dont like making male characters because I dont like the faces, but I feel so limited by the way the female bodies work in the game.
Mostly I want a waist slider that actually changes the waist. I want to be able to have a somewhat straight line from ribcage to hips, even for skinny characters. Would allow for more athletic looks, or youthful characters.
All in all, the male bodies can be manipulated so much more. Made into more fantastic, strange creatures. What if I want to make a hero that used to be a nurse during WW2, with muscular arms and a thick accent, huge hands with scarred knuckles because she bashes peoples heads in? Cant be done, no matter what I do shell have a bee-line waist and look less than butch.
Got myself lost in hobbyist seasonal crunch time. e.e Sorry, XLauncher. I can try and get my brain aligned properly by the weekend, but it seems kind of far out now...
I actually meant to post this a while ago. But so many wires. x.x So. Many. Wires.
/signed
this is sadly the main reason why a lot of my current toons are male. The... toothpickyness of the female body around here really gets up my tharkas and I just have to go back a few steps and go male.
/signed! I'd also like a little fix to the breast slider so I can completely remove the boobs on my female lizard/rat please. Oh and also give my crocodile female a flat chest.
One can always hope
I agree from an earlier post that female body images are skewed and a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of situation. I always think about stan lee's hero reality show and Fat Mama. Somebody who was trying to promote higher self esteem in women who arent stick thin comic book heroes, and just catches flak in the other direction by having people say she was helping promote an unhealthy body weight.
People are all different sizes. Period. I have no problem with the skinny super heroes, but the curvier gals should be represented as well. I even think that males still come off as too bulky rather than maybe a little pudgy.
Of course, this is a game about heroes and people imagine their heroes as fit and attractive...generally speaking. But where Batman has to stay in shape having no other powers, Im sure Superman could gain a few pounds and still fight crime just as well :rolleyes:
I agree with most of what has been said so far and hope to see the female model get a bit more variety in body types and facial features to match the diversity of the males choices. The main reason I don't have female toons is that I can't make their bodies larger and more muscular like the male toons and that the facial sliders don't change the look of the head that much. The female sliders just don't have enough of a range to the dimensions of the body to reflect more than just the thin to slightly fit supermodel asthetic.
Oh god you're right! I've always wanted to make a fat princess character who controlled an army to do her bidding but could also send out shockwaves by bouncing up and down.
When I tried to make her she didn't change one bit!
OMG I'm signed!
And you've given me a great idea for 2 travel powers and a move set! Your my hero person I don't know! Call me if you need some help with anything!
13 pages and still no response from anyone from Cryptic... do they even look in this part of the forum?
I bet they don't, the next two areas probably won't be the ones some people have asked for. But this one is something we need! I want to be able to make big characters but they'll never do that will they?
Quite a dramatic difference. You can do anything from a immovable sumo-esque brawler to your classic whipcord-taut Golden Age hero just by shifting the mass and then adjusting the muscle bumpmapping to fit. Very impressive range of variety here, Cryptic.
Now for the girls' side. I repeat, nothing other than bodymass was altered for these images.
Hey wait a second... is that it? That's all the change women can get from a maxed-out bodymass? She just goes up a dress-size or two? Even tweaking the muscle bumpmaps doesn't have much effect if that's all the increase of size we can get to put it on. If thats all the increase there is, why have it at all?
No chance for a massive Amazonian war-goddess, or a bulky she-bear werebeast, or even just a chubby wizard who enjoys conjured pastries a bit too much. Heck, you can't even shift the height down to make an amply-endowed female dwarf, though her barrel-shaped male counterpart is easily done.
I know some might argue the reason is that there's not a whole lot of BBW-type characters in comics, but come on... there's not many big fat guy characters either, but those are able to be represented no problem.
Come on, Cryptic, show some love.
hell yes i want to make a buff female cop, but i cant without leaving a freaky thin waist
I bet they don't, the next two areas probably won't be the ones some people have asked for. But this one is something we need! I want to be able to make big characters but they'll never do that will they?
They do look, just check the UNTIL Reports compared to the suggestions section.
But honestly, what do you want them to answer? "Yes, we'll do it" or "We'll look into it"?
Then they'll have people, day and night, asking for status updates...
The CTP thread has been there for a far longer time, and still no Dev answer... yet, in the Reports, you'll see CTP being mentioned...
Just keep this alive, the more people it gets, the better the chance. ^_^
We're all aware a change like this won't be an quickly-done matter like, say, a new costume pack might be, but still, to know its at least being looked at would be wonderful.
I want to be able to make big, beefy, muscular babes too.
You see Hulk clones almost hourly in RenCen... but never She-Hulk. Normally I loathe knockoffs, but I'd gladly put up with a dozen She-Hulk clones if it meant making an actually massive female was possible.
You see Hulk clones almost hourly in RenCen... but never She-Hulk. Normally I loathe knockoffs, but I'd gladly put up with a dozen She-Hulk clones if it meant making an actually massive female was possible.
I don't know what Ren Cen you've been in ... ran into two She-Hulks today. Not as common, of course, because its much more difficult to pull off a massive musclebound woman.
I don't know what Ren Cen you've been in ... ran into two She-Hulks today. Not as common, of course, because its much more difficult to pull off a massive musclebound woman.
Exactly.
Two, compared, to... well, frankly, I've practically lost count of how many Hulk copies I've seen under various names in just the short time I've been playing since F2P hit. Muscular females (not just She-Hulk clones), on the other hand, those I could count onehanded and still have enough fingers free to write my name.
First i waanted to say, that the perception of the toon size is very distorted depending on the type of your screen resolution if you're on like 12:10 ratio resolution everyone would appear like twigs, switch to 16:10 and they're normal. That's why i see quite a lot of "big people" in the game actually , don't want more.
We already have "big" girls in real life, why bring emm to games :DD
Well ofc, having a choice is always better that not having one, so the topic gets a +1 from me on that point of view.
But still, nooooo i don't want to bump into any more she hulks , and i don't agree there isn't enough fat toons in the game, i see them pretty often.
First i waanted to say, that the perception of the toon size is very distorted depending on the type of your screen resolution if you're on like 12:10 ratio resolution everyone would appear like twigs, switch to 16:10 and they're normal. That's why i see quite a lot of "big people" in the game actually , don't want more.
Screen resolution isn't the issue here.
We already have "big" girls in real life, why bring emm to games :DD
Same reason folks want a lot of other things in the game. Because we want them.
Well ofc, having a choice is always better that not having one, so the topic gets a +1 from me on that point of view.
Not exactly a rallying cry for it so far, from the sound of the rest of your post.
But still, nooooo i don't want to bump into any more she hulks , and i don't agree there isn't enough fat toons in the game, i see them pretty often.
And how many "fat" or "hulk" toons have you seen that were female, hm? And how many were male? Notice any imbalance of numbers here?
To be honest, I'd rather they sort out the lacklustre combination issue with female characters before things like this - female characters get a dismal selection of different costume combinations compared to men, and most of the stuff that does come out leaves them pretty much pandering to the mid-teen pocket mining demographic, which is rather degrading, really. There are some good costume options out there, but they end up closing too many doors to be useful. Why cant I use my C-Store unlocks with robotic arm/leg peices? Many of the male versions, you can. Why not the female?
To be honest, I'd rather they sort out the lacklustre combination issue with female characters before things like this - female characters get a dismal selection of different costume combinations compared to men, and most of the stuff that does come out leaves them pretty much pandering to the mid-teen pocket mining demographic, which is rather degrading, really. There are some good costume options out there, but they end up closing too many doors to be useful. Why cant I use my C-Store unlocks with robotic arm/leg peices? Many of the male versions, you can. Why not the female?
Oh trust me, I'm not expecting this to be done anytime soon - I know it's too complex for a hotfix - I'm just bringing it to attention so those in charge are aware of it needing to be put on the "to do" list alongside stuff like the costume-gender-imbalance you mentioned.
The inequity in costume combinations comes off as very lazy character artists, to me. While I am glad the later packs have turned somewhat away from this (pulp is a lot more friendly with combinations) there's still some things which are very glaring even in new packs - why can't Beast legs use the cstore tights? Why can't we use unlocked tights with the robotic parts?
It's very frustrating. The freedom CO offers in costume creation makes instances like this very apparent.
I also wish CO would port STO's physical attribute system because its a LOT more comphrehensive than CO's.
And while I'm in fantasyland, I also want a flying dog which dispenses hundred British pound notes and spreads peace, love, and joy.
I really hate how the body mass slider is right now only good to get the chest and rear down to non-ridiculous levels. Or for the kids to pull it all the way up because "lololo bewbs"
Throwing my hat into the ring, too- would really like to be able to make a truly buff brick-girl or a pudgy inventor. As it is, all of the female toons look like variations of runway models!
As a bit of a switch from the "Big Girls" angle I'd like to submit that some of us play Midgies who sometimes like to load up in giant mecha armor. As it has been since beta, it is not possible to make a mecha suit for females nearly as large as for males. This should be remedied.
Comments
What good is having a bunch of stuff to do if you can't make the character you want to do it with?
Look what Tumerboy did for the Powerhouse: it wasn't scheduled, yet he did it on the side.
I just say 'it might be nice someday", not now. ^^ (And I somewhat trust them to sort priorities)
And the cowbell part was mostly a joke. :-p
And here, updated her look:
Attachment not found.
A real cow-cowgirl XD
A cowgirl who, thanks to the unalterably-narrow waist (and lack of a proper skintone), looks like a too-busty anthropomorphic dalmatian with horns.
When you do an exaggeration you have to do it to the maximum XD
From her Primus entry:
"While Molly was sort of short and balanced in her own universe, it seems crossing to ours has heavily altered her body. The lower part remained as it was, but she grew very tall and her bust reached epic size. Being so top-heavy made her extremely clumsy, and she often looses balance, as shown by the bruises and scratches on her knees."
Like I said... :-p
Ill start right here. Let me explain the context Im talking from here and maybe Ill make my dispute clearer. The reason we go to the trouble of identifying objectification of people in our media is, because, its bad. Yeah, I wrapped that in a real riddle there. Seriously though, we dislike objectification of women because it sets unrealistically high or simply irresponsible expectations of women in both their appearance and behavior, and then leaves girls wondering whats wrong with them if they cant meet those standards.
So when we talk about the objectification of men, the equivalent examples should do the same thing. Kindly hold onto this thought, Ill be coming back to it.
I wasnt saying that products featuring female objectification have to appeal to men. I was saying that female objectification itself appeals to men (and certain kinds of women, I guess). Its a tricky difference, so Ill elaborate.
The demographic of the example you use, Barbie, is unquestionably young girls. The physical traits of Barbie dolls, on the other hand, are probably lost on young girls. But, the purpose of Barbie dolls, aside from allowing Mattel to print money, is to be an ideal woman, hence Barbie having had every profession under the sun. Naturally, children are going to emulate ideals, and one of the ideals that Barbie puts forth is her, literally, unnatural figure, which appeals to men.
So, the objectification here isnt who Barbies are sold to, but what theyre training young girls to be. On a sidenote, Ive always thought Barbie catches too much flak on this front: methinks your average girl probably has the sense to know that maybe the doll with no nipples might not be the best role model of physique. Still, my point remains, that the purpose of female objectification is to promote traits that appeal to men.
Again, to talk about the objectification of men, the equivalent example should do the same thing. Still holding on? Good, Im about to cash in my Focus stacks.
And now Ill bring it around. Heres why I posted in this thread at all to begin with: people complain (understandably) about objectification when they see scantily clad women prancing about in their media. Then, other people point out that the same thing happens to men (correctly so), and point at the first scantily clad piece of beefcake off the top of their heads. That last part is what gets my fingers on the keyboard. When I see that, I feel that people are only making the easy and superficial comparison and not getting at the root of the issue.
When were talking about male objectification, what Im saying is that we should be talking about the traits that society puts pressure on both men and women to emulate. For women, thats being a sex kitten, among other things. As a man though, I dont feel any particular pressure to win the Mr. Olympia. Its been a while since weve seen a Charles Atlas ad anywhere. However, I do feel pressure to be a badass with complete temerity of flouting authority and to tread into tricky social situations with a douchebag smile.
Does Conan do those things? Sure. But theyre on the periphery of his character: you say Conan, people think beefcake. Or funny redhead guy. Heres all Im saying: there are better examples to choose.
Oh, yeah, Im still totally all about a waist slider. Woo.
I have been wanting this for weeks
But the outcry must be heard!
But I completely, completely agree. It isnt just about being able to make overweight characters its about variety. We make far from only human characters and the range of the sliders have a huge impact on the range were able to create. I dont like making male characters because I dont like the faces, but I feel so limited by the way the female bodies work in the game.
Mostly I want a waist slider that actually changes the waist. I want to be able to have a somewhat straight line from ribcage to hips, even for skinny characters. Would allow for more athletic looks, or youthful characters.
All in all, the male bodies can be manipulated so much more. Made into more fantastic, strange creatures. What if I want to make a hero that used to be a nurse during WW2, with muscular arms and a thick accent, huge hands with scarred knuckles because she bashes peoples heads in?
I actually meant to post this a while ago. But so many wires. x.x So. Many. Wires.
As to the original topic, still signed.
this is sadly the main reason why a lot of my current toons are male. The... toothpickyness of the female body around here really gets up my tharkas and I just have to go back a few steps and go male.
/sign
One can always hope
I want a ****in' bodybuilder's waist for my Jotunn Devastator, no some "we need to out-Barbie Mattel" crap.
Hard to be seen as massive and intimidating when you can't really gain any mass to intimidate with.
I agree from an earlier post that female body images are skewed and a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of situation. I always think about stan lee's hero reality show and Fat Mama. Somebody who was trying to promote higher self esteem in women who arent stick thin comic book heroes, and just catches flak in the other direction by having people say she was helping promote an unhealthy body weight.
People are all different sizes. Period. I have no problem with the skinny super heroes, but the curvier gals should be represented as well. I even think that males still come off as too bulky rather than maybe a little pudgy.
Of course, this is a game about heroes and people imagine their heroes as fit and attractive...generally speaking. But where Batman has to stay in shape having no other powers, Im sure Superman could gain a few pounds and still fight crime just as well :rolleyes:
There definitely needs to be more variety in female body shapes here.
I agree with most of what has been said so far and hope to see the female model get a bit more variety in body types and facial features to match the diversity of the males choices. The main reason I don't have female toons is that I can't make their bodies larger and more muscular like the male toons and that the facial sliders don't change the look of the head that much. The female sliders just don't have enough of a range to the dimensions of the body to reflect more than just the thin to slightly fit supermodel asthetic.
When I tried to make her she didn't change one bit!
OMG I'm signed!
And you've given me a great idea for 2 travel powers and a move set! Your my hero person I don't know! Call me if you need some help with anything!
YOU HEAR US CRYPTIC! DO SOMETHING!
I bet they don't, the next two areas probably won't be the ones some people have asked for. But this one is something we need! I want to be able to make big characters but they'll never do that will they?
hell yes i want to make a buff female cop, but i cant without leaving a freaky thin waist
They do look, just check the UNTIL Reports compared to the suggestions section.
But honestly, what do you want them to answer? "Yes, we'll do it" or "We'll look into it"?
Then they'll have people, day and night, asking for status updates...
The CTP thread has been there for a far longer time, and still no Dev answer... yet, in the Reports, you'll see CTP being mentioned...
Just keep this alive, the more people it gets, the better the chance. ^_^
You see Hulk clones almost hourly in RenCen... but never She-Hulk. Normally I loathe knockoffs, but I'd gladly put up with a dozen She-Hulk clones if it meant making an actually massive female was possible.
I don't know what Ren Cen you've been in ... ran into two She-Hulks today. Not as common, of course, because its much more difficult to pull off a massive musclebound woman.
Exactly.
Two, compared, to... well, frankly, I've practically lost count of how many Hulk copies I've seen under various names in just the short time I've been playing since F2P hit. Muscular females (not just She-Hulk clones), on the other hand, those I could count onehanded and still have enough fingers free to write my name.
Eternally skinny women is one of the main reasons I don't prefer making female toons (especially on CO).
I pretty much have a 30:1 ratio of guy toons to girl toons. Would be lower. Could be lower.
...WILL be lower if they don't come out with fat-bottomed girls soon enough. >_>
I now have the support of one of the most bizarrely creative people I've ever known in this game.
Today is a good day.
We already have "big" girls in real life, why bring emm to games :DD
Well ofc, having a choice is always better that not having one, so the topic gets a +1 from me on that point of view.
But still, nooooo i don't want to bump into any more she hulks
Screen resolution isn't the issue here.
Same reason folks want a lot of other things in the game. Because we want them.
Not exactly a rallying cry for it so far, from the sound of the rest of your post.
And how many "fat" or "hulk" toons have you seen that were female, hm? And how many were male? Notice any imbalance of numbers here?
Oh trust me, I'm not expecting this to be done anytime soon - I know it's too complex for a hotfix - I'm just bringing it to attention so those in charge are aware of it needing to be put on the "to do" list alongside stuff like the costume-gender-imbalance you mentioned.
It's very frustrating. The freedom CO offers in costume creation makes instances like this very apparent.
I also wish CO would port STO's physical attribute system because its a LOT more comphrehensive than CO's.
And while I'm in fantasyland, I also want a flying dog which dispenses hundred British pound notes and spreads peace, love, and joy.
The unmovable waist line also makes it difficult to make younger female characters.
I really hate how the body mass slider is right now only good to get the chest and rear down to non-ridiculous levels.
Or for the kids to pull it all the way up because "lololo bewbs"
Chubby ladies are much more appealing than twig girls in my opinion.
/signed.