And it's still not going to. The amount of work to do this is far far beyond anything they're going to be willing to do for this game. Remaking anything on the base figures breaks 101 different other things.
I wish it could happen. But it can't.
Increasing the range of the shape sliders does not require remaking of anything, anyone who thinks it does is only fooling themself. There also really is not a lot of work required to make this happen, it really is a simple matter of adjusting the upper (and lower) range of the sliders morph values. If the current maximum size is 200% of the base model value then increasing it to 300% would do quite a bit, increaing it to 400% would definately be more in line with males.
The only thing that would require additional work would be fixing tne waist slider to actually affect the waist, but if they will atleast adust the existing slider ranges on females to better match what is available on males they will make a lot of people happy.
The only other problem that comes with this is some chestware doesnt scale properly as is, and clipping will worsen on them. But that is an issue we have all been forced to deal with and accept for years, I'm sure noone will throw a fit over it.
The part about "The amount of work to do this is far far beyond anything they're going to be willing to do for this game." on @decorumfriends' post is accurate though. Changing the percentage on sliders changes existing costumes. Something that I'd be willing to bet theywouldn't do.
Also, I personally wouldn't want the current bulk slider to be extended. I'd want a new one, one that primarily increases lower body mass like hips and thighs so bulky women end up having a distinctly different shape than bulky men, but still have that feeling of being massive and powerful.
For the second time, the easiest [and technically speaking only possible] way to get this done would be release a "costume" set which contains different version of every body part [head, hands, arms, torso, legs and feet] which react to the sliders in the desired manner and have access to the basic setup of tights/skin patterns.
Saves them having to completely retool the sliders and re-map all the costume peices
Incorrect. Creating a separate costume set as you suggest would require more work than simply adjusting the slider ranges. The costume pieces that would need to be "re-mapped" as you put it, already are in need of such changes as is, and there are relatively few of them and the devs have shown no intention of ever fixing the existing problems with them so there is no expectation that they would fix those costumes anyways.
Additionally, as someone else mentioned before, the suggestion your making would work as a stop-gap measure only, and we all know that if it was implemented that way that Cryptic would just leave it that way and wouldn't finish the job. There are a TON of character concepts that require the sliders to be properly adjusted that your suggestion would NEVER allow for.
The part about "The amount of work to do this is far far beyond anything they're going to be willing to do for this game." on @decorumfriends' post is accurate though. Changing the percentage on sliders changes existing costumes. Something that I'd be willing to bet theywouldn't do.
Also, I personally wouldn't want the current bulk slider to be extended. I'd want a new one, one that primarily increases lower body mass like hips and thighs so bulky women end up having a distinctly different shape than bulky men, but still have that feeling of being massive and powerful.
If all they did was "change the percentages" then yes that would be a problem... but what has been asked for over and over again is to INCREASE the range. In other words, take the Body Mass slider for example, it currently offers a 1-90 range, what we are asking for is to increase that from 1-90 to 1-180. We don't want them to change the current values, we want them to add onto the maximum range of the slider.
As for the lower body mass... yes many of us would like to see that too... But most of us would like to see the current sliders extended as well.
Someone else already mentioned this before and I'm going to reiterate it. The sliders adjust the scaling of the mesh through interaction with the Armature, which is a collection of nodes referred to as bones that are linked to a group of vertices on the mesh. Every slider is connected to one or more bones, however not every bone has a slider. All joints have a bone used primarily for animation, all solid limbs have one or more bones used for shape deformation and/or animation. You can twist turn and deform the mesh in a myriad of ways through the armature without breaking the mesh, and so long as a bone is linked to that area there is no need to re make anything, additionally new bones can be added with minimal effort, it would only be time consuming to link all affected attachments to the new bone.
It is unclear as to if there is actually even a bone attached to the actual waist line, the reason is that if you adjust the sliders you will notice that regardless of what sliders you change the vertices along the waistline are never affected (except by height which scales all vertices) this indicates that there is either a bone that is not on any slider attached to these vertices or there is no bone attached to them at all. Considering how all animations behave around the actual waist though, it is unlikely that there is a bone there.
The part about "The amount of work to do this is far far beyond anything they're going to be willing to do for this game." on @decorumfriends' post is accurate though. Changing the percentage on sliders changes existing costumes. Something that I'd be willing to bet theywouldn't do.
Also, I personally wouldn't want the current bulk slider to be extended. I'd want a new one, one that primarily increases lower body mass like hips and thighs so bulky women end up having a distinctly different shape than bulky men, but still have that feeling of being massive and powerful.
If all they did was "change the percentages" then yes that would be a problem... but what has been asked for over and over again is to INCREASE the range. In other words, take the Body Mass slider for example, it currently offers a 1-90 range, what we are asking for is to increase that from 1-90 to 1-180. We don't want them to change the current values, we want them to add onto the maximum range of the slider.
That would indirectly change the percentages though. That 1-90 range is still on a percentage from 0% to 100%, which the tailor reads as such. Changing the range to 1-180 wouldn't change that the tailor would still read it as 1%-100%, only the 100% it reads would be set to 180 now instead of 90, so it would mess everyone's costumes up.
MIND YOU that this is the explanation I got from a STO dev on this issue. But since STO and CO share the same game engine, it would be reasonable to assume that both games would the same way under the hood.
That would indirectly change the percentages though. That 1-90 range is still on a percentage from 0% to 100%, which the tailor reads as such. Changing the range to 1-180 wouldn't change that the tailor would still read it as 1%-100%, only the 100% it reads would be set to 180 now instead of 90, so it would mess everyone's costumes up.
MIND YOU that this is the explanation I got from a STO dev on this issue. But since STO and CO share the same game engine, it would be reasonable to assume that both games would the same way under the hood.
As for the lower body mass... yes many of us would like to see that too... But most of us would like to see the current sliders extended as well.
Indeed. It would be ideal if we see both happening.
The STO dev you talked to either didn't know what he was talking about, or completly missunderstood everything. If you increase the range, you do MORE than just change the numbers visible to the players, the current 1-90 is 0%-100% sure, but the increased 1-180 would be 0%-200%. 1-90 would still be 0%-100% and 91-180 would be 100%-200%. All existing costumes would still fall under the 1-90 range and be unaffected.
As far as I'm concerned, the only real issue is the misplaced/missing waist slider (at least as far as the sliders go...don't get me started on the stances...). I actively don't want them just "increasing the range of the sliders". If they going to go in and mess with things, they should be fixing it right, not working on a half-assed work-around that probably won't be as versatile as you're imagining. This is Cryptic spaghetti code we're dealing with. Cut off one head and seven more appear! And chat breaks!
As far as I'm concerned, the only real issue is the misplaced/missing waist slider (at least as far as the sliders go...don't get me started on the stances...).
I've got to agree with this. Adding an actual waist slider would be ideal for me.
As far as I'm concerned, the only real issue is the misplaced/missing waist slider (at least as far as the sliders go...don't get me started on the stances...).
I've got to agree with this. Adding an actual waist slider would be ideal for me.
And yeah, the stances
When was the last time either of ya'll looked in the stance menu in the tailor? They added the missing stances to females a while back... Unless your talking about the fact that your stance is meaningless one you activate a travel power...
When was the last time either of ya'll looked in the stance menu in the tailor? They added the missing stances to females a while back... Unless your talking about the fact that your stance is meaningless one you activate a travel power...
So player stances aren't just a default pose, they need to be hooked up to use directionals and be told what to do when using various travels and many other things. The stances added to females a while back were already hooked up like that, just were omitted from females.
New stances aren't really something we're looking into. While there are some neat stances you see NPC's using...they're very much just for NPC's. Most don't have directional movements, high speed movements, jump animations, etc.
What could be done is making a pose emote for a stance.
Sliders are something else we're being cautious about. Adding a new sliders can break existing ones (the scale changes that occurred a couple years back actually have caused quite a few problems) and costumes aren't always weighted with those restricted scales in mind.
And those Emotes are going to be Character Bound Emotes I presume? NO THANKS I wanted to see them in tailor as poses, not ANTI-ALT friendly Cash cow
So far i see the poses work fine with movement when you examine a lore item and let the window open
I'm going to scrap my desire for the Hands-on-waist pose
EDIT: Its locked behind Gold Rewards AGAIN
Post edited by avianos on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
That would indirectly change the percentages though. That 1-90 range is still on a percentage from 0% to 100%, which the tailor reads as such. Changing the range to 1-180 wouldn't change that the tailor would still read it as 1%-100%, only the 100% it reads would be set to 180 now instead of 90, so it would mess everyone's costumes up.
MIND YOU that this is the explanation I got from a STO dev on this issue. But since STO and CO share the same game engine, it would be reasonable to assume that both games would the same way under the hood.
As for the lower body mass... yes many of us would like to see that too... But most of us would like to see the current sliders extended as well.
Indeed. It would be ideal if we see both happening.
The STO dev you talked to either didn't know what he was talking about, or completly missunderstood everything. If you increase the range, you do MORE than just change the numbers visible to the players, the current 1-90 is 0%-100% sure, but the increased 1-180 would be 0%-200%. 1-90 would still be 0%-100% and 91-180 would be 100%-200%. All existing costumes would still fall under the 1-90 range and be unaffected.
Mmmm, that's possible! @crypticjoejing, wanna chime in on this?
As far as I'm concerned, the only real issue is the misplaced/missing waist slider (at least as far as the sliders go...don't get me started on the stances...).
I've got to agree with this. Adding an actual waist slider would be ideal for me.
And yeah, the stances
When was the last time either of ya'll looked in the stance menu in the tailor? They added the missing stances to females a while back... Unless your talking about the fact that your stance is meaningless one you activate a travel power...
I wasn't talking about NEW or missing stances, I was talking about the disturbingly sexist and distorted ones we have now. Vixen, I suppose, is OK because it's supposed to be like that, but the basic one resembles how no person EVER stands.
And, funny, I stand in my "stance" all the time with my travel powers on. Just hit an emote while standing still (I tend to use no02, specifically for that purpose) and it activates and you end up in your "stance".
Comments
Also, I personally wouldn't want the current bulk slider to be extended. I'd want a new one, one that primarily increases lower body mass like hips and thighs so bulky women end up having a distinctly different shape than bulky men, but still have that feeling of being massive and powerful.
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Additionally, as someone else mentioned before, the suggestion your making would work as a stop-gap measure only, and we all know that if it was implemented that way that Cryptic would just leave it that way and wouldn't finish the job. There are a TON of character concepts that require the sliders to be properly adjusted that your suggestion would NEVER allow for. If all they did was "change the percentages" then yes that would be a problem... but what has been asked for over and over again is to INCREASE the range. In other words, take the Body Mass slider for example, it currently offers a 1-90 range, what we are asking for is to increase that from 1-90 to 1-180. We don't want them to change the current values, we want them to add onto the maximum range of the slider.
As for the lower body mass... yes many of us would like to see that too... But most of us would like to see the current sliders extended as well.
Someone else already mentioned this before and I'm going to reiterate it. The sliders adjust the scaling of the mesh through interaction with the Armature, which is a collection of nodes referred to as bones that are linked to a group of vertices on the mesh. Every slider is connected to one or more bones, however not every bone has a slider. All joints have a bone used primarily for animation, all solid limbs have one or more bones used for shape deformation and/or animation. You can twist turn and deform the mesh in a myriad of ways through the armature without breaking the mesh, and so long as a bone is linked to that area there is no need to re make anything, additionally new bones can be added with minimal effort, it would only be time consuming to link all affected attachments to the new bone.
It is unclear as to if there is actually even a bone attached to the actual waist line, the reason is that if you adjust the sliders you will notice that regardless of what sliders you change the vertices along the waistline are never affected (except by height which scales all vertices) this indicates that there is either a bone that is not on any slider attached to these vertices or there is no bone attached to them at all. Considering how all animations behave around the actual waist though, it is unlikely that there is a bone there.
MIND YOU that this is the explanation I got from a STO dev on this issue. But since STO and CO share the same game engine, it would be reasonable to assume that both games would the same way under the hood. Indeed. It would be ideal if we see both happening.
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And yeah, the stances
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
New stances aren't really something we're looking into. While there are some neat stances you see NPC's using...they're very much just for NPC's. Most don't have directional movements, high speed movements, jump animations, etc.
What could be done is making a pose emote for a stance.
Sliders are something else we're being cautious about. Adding a new sliders can break existing ones (the scale changes that occurred a couple years back actually have caused quite a few problems) and costumes aren't always weighted with those restricted scales in mind.
So far i see the poses work fine with movement when you examine a lore item and let the window open
I'm going to scrap my desire for the Hands-on-waist pose
EDIT: Its locked behind Gold Rewards AGAIN
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And, funny, I stand in my "stance" all the time with my travel powers on. Just hit an emote while standing still (I tend to use no02, specifically for that purpose) and it activates and you end up in your "stance".