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Powerset Review Discussions: Power Armor/Laser Swords

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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Just realized something, now Power Armour needs a Second Energy Unlock for all the non-toggle attacks, it make sense since it's such a big powerframe

    Overdrive can no longer support them, and if you plan to play as a non Toggle PA DPS you don't have many choices

    And AUTOMATON AT can take use of this EU

    Are there any plans to update the Automaton?​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    criswolf09criswolf09 Posts: 748 Arc User
    avianos said:

    Just realized something, now Power Armour needs a Second Energy Unlock for all the non-toggle attacks, it make sense since it's such a big powerframe

    Overdrive can no longer support them, and if you plan to play as a non Toggle PA DPS you don't have many choices

    And AUTOMATON AT can take use of this EU

    Are there any plans to update the Automaton?​​

    I agree that long forgotten AT needs an update. Please consider this changes to this AT.

    Level 1: Wrist Bottler
    Level 1: Power Gauntlet OR Rocket Punch
    Level 6: Eye Beams
    Level 8: Targeting Computer
    Level 11: Chest Beam OR Chest Laser
    Level 14: Aspect of the Machine
    Level 17: Reconstruction Circuits OR Bionic Shielding
    Level 21: Energy Shield
    Level 25: Overdrive
    Level 30: Lock and Load OR Ego Surge
    Level 35: Orbital Cannon OR Energy Wave
    Level 40: Implossion Engine
    Useful Guides about Archetypes and General Gameplay of the Game Click Here
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Thinking about the Recent Overdrive change to benefit more PA Toggles, Automaton build gets even more clipped

    Automaton only has Reconstruction Circuits (PA self heal Toggle) and Gauntlet Chainsaw (Gadget Maintain)

    while Reconstruction Circuits is active it COMPLETY locks you out from Chest Beam, Power Gauntlet, Rocket Punch and Gauntlet Chainsaw is not even a PA attack so...
    3f2.jpg
    OH MY GOD this Archetype is a Trainwreck of bad decisions, the more I'm thinking about it the more it hurts me
    WHO DESIGNED THIS AT!?

    Dev you really need to revamp Automaton Progression as well, I know it's a free AT but this design got worse​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    The sad answer to that is Recon Circuits is prob meant to only serve toggle/slot-style builds now. It would be nice to have a diff heal that better jived w/ the rest of the set, though.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    My question: Will there be a Laser Sword AT? I ask because they did do one for the vodoo powers
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
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    theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 7,065 Arc User

    My question: Will there be a Laser Sword AT? I ask because they did do one for the vodoo powers

    The Cyborg Ninja AT (aka Not Genji ;) )
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    xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User

    My question: Will there be a Laser Sword AT? I ask because they did do one for the vodoo powers

    The Cyborg Ninja AT (aka Not Genji ;) )
    I can seriously see this :p
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
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    meeoeoowiemeeoeoowie Posts: 78 Arc User
    Okay, so this post is sort of a question of concept as much as it is a suggestion, but here goes.

    Okay, energy swords, right? Then how about...

    SWORD BEAMS?

    It's such a classic trope, and the cool factor is through the roof!

    As for a suggestion as to how it can be done, I think the most plausible at this time in development would be to make it an advantage of either the pseudo-combo Luminescent Slash, or the actual combo Lightspeed Strike. If you wanted to be crazy, you could look into whatever other melee Laser Sword powers would fit the bill, though the combos would likely be the most immediately appealing and engaging.

    I think making it a 2-3 cost advantage is the most reasonable, as gaining moderate range (50ft) on a combo is very powerful, so losing out on a rank, or even being charged that 1 extra point at 3(total) is a given. That is the same kind of balancing effort Butcher's Blades under Sword Cyclone gets, where it's a powerful and redefining effect, but you lose out on that potential rank 3 for pure power strength.

    Finally, in terms of technicality, with my limited grasp on how the game is coded and engineered, I would look into the Earth energy builder and how that power registers melee and ranged to alter a power. I think you could make good work of the slash beams that Vorpal Blade uses, especially if you added some of the base Energy Sword vfx to the projectile.

    With those two existing examples existing ingame, the advantage would essentially give (for example) Luminescent Slash a register for when you're within 50ft but not within melee range, and within those criteria give you "Luminescent Crash" (obvious name example), which potentially deals a tiny bit less damage, has the same animations as if it were melee, but each strike sends out a "sword beam" at your target.

    This works especially well with Luminescent Slash, since that power has an assortment of very obvious slashing angles that would result in minimal hassle in terms of setting the sword beam VFX at the correct angle per slash.


    TL;DR: Energy Blade is the perfect power framework to implement the familiar power trope of sword beams, and would give a chosen power within the framework a unique gamestyle choice. Above I describe means of executing this ingame, in the hopes of giving the devs an easier time, should they find the idea appealing to implement.

    Below I have spoiler'd examples of sword beams from random google images, in case there is any confusion.
    YyBlKjj.jpg?3PVZuhur.png?1TJqsJMY.png?1

    If this in any way clashes with the intent of this discussion thread, do let me know!

    Later!​​
    [A Place to Post Power Concepts] - I don't update this thing as often as I want to, but it is not abandoned!
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    [Analysis of a Poison Spread Bug] - The different interactions Virulent Propagation and Bite has with all poisons.
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    xrazamaxxrazamax Posts: 979 Arc User
    Swoooord Beeeeaaaaams!!!

    Overall idea: Deal more damage the closer you are to target, wider AoE cone the farther you are away from target but with less damage.
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    criswolf09criswolf09 Posts: 748 Arc User
    So far Plasma Wave is the closest thing I've seen from your videos, Mira.
    Useful Guides about Archetypes and General Gameplay of the Game Click Here
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    criswolf09criswolf09 Posts: 748 Arc User
    Sounds a great idea really! It reminds of the advantage on Power Gauntlet.
    Useful Guides about Archetypes and General Gameplay of the Game Click Here
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    vonqballvonqball Posts: 923 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Well... I'm sold on the sword beams. I'd like to see that energy crescent in game. An earth-splitter-y line attack (like that Final Fantasy one) looks neat too.

    I know I'm probably just dreaming.. but I'd love to see the LS set work in a "Hypercharge" mechanic. If you finish the combo, your LS becomes hyper-charged (glows bright and kicks out sparks).... if you use the block for more than X seconds, your LS again becomes hyper-charged. The hyper-charged state would then enhance and modify the functionality of other LS powers.... e.g. the AoE slash now emits a sword beam that increases its range (and then consumes hyper-charge).

    Spitballin... but damn that sounds like fun to me.


    Post edited by vonqball on
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    chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    ok try the right thread this time.

    BUG :Is OVERDRIVE going to process All maintains now or still have about a dozen it doesn't

    Ok just checked my wind/force maintain build on Pts, dex-ego-con. rec/end in talents and utility gear.
    cost discount 362.
    11 energy per 3 on live, 7 on pts.
    still works fine.​​
    Stuffing up Freeform builds since Mid 2011
    4e1f62c7-8ea7-4996-8f22-bae41fea063b_zpsu7p3urv1.jpg

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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    My only complain so far from this revamp is the Overdrive Change
    Overdrive is being changed to only benefit Power Armour builds and nothing more

    This is the worst time possible to NERF versiality EU since Half of the powers are still not revamped and haven't received their respective EUs (Earth, Mind, Force, Gadgeteer, Some Sonic powers nobody gives a damm about, except of me)

    Not only the damage caused by this change won't be fixed until every single Powerframe gets revamp, but current builds who are using a different type of powers for their with overdrive as the conected link, are screwed

    yes i know there WILL be more EUs on the future, but it's the present im more concered right now! The EU I may need may be made in 1 year

    and yes, i'm going to link once more my Sonic DPS build, because it's currently thinking outside the box and my character Crescendo is one of my childhood characters

    It's also the fact that it had some darn good synergy with technology, Pulse Beam Riffle had a perfect synergy with Overdrive and now it's gone,
    MSA is obnoxious to use

    also Overdrive currently on PTS is screwed up
    • REC scaling became INFERIOR, END scaling is the ONLY way to go
      We asked for REC and END scaling to become the same, and Recovery became THE WORST
    • Not enough energy to help maintaining 3 PA Toggles on the same time, currently on live, PA DPS with 3 toggles need an absurd amount of energy managment

    and yes im upset because Star Stroke, my PA DPS i had been investing so much time and effort the past 2 years and i even farmed Justice gear for him, is going to be forced to get a 3rd Toggle (Bye Bye Tactical Missiles) which will change his energy managment

    I don't mind switching my REC mods (247 REC) to END, but this is SHOULDN'T be happening! The REC and END scaling should had been the SAME

    on the same time I don't see the PA Double Edged sword issues being resolved
    1. Targeting Arc, that DARN Targeting arc!
    2. Toggles locking down Self Heals Active Offenses/Defenses and with the bad timing, complety canceling them
      with the Toggle change
    3. Non Toggle PA builds cannot use Overdrive and Reconstruction Circuits, which means PA needs 1 new EU and 1 new Self heal (and no devs, giving Restoration ADV on Energy Wave is not a solution)
    4. The Annoying CD lockout after using a PA Toggle, let's say you are a PA Themed HEALER, that CD will screw up your healing target
    ​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 721 Community Moderator
    Is it intended for New Power Armor to run 3 damage toggles indefinitely?

    With the new changes to Overdrive scaling and the revamped toggle costs, I don't see that happening without standing in a Circle of Arcane Power (which seems an odd necessity for a technology setup), or pausing your offense to use something like Kickback or Neuroelectric Pulse.
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    My only complain so far from this revamp is the Overdrive Change
    Overdrive is being changed to only benefit Power Armour builds and nothing more

    This is the worst time possible to NERF versiality EU since Half of the powers are still not revamped and haven't received their respective EUs (Earth, Mind, Force, Gadgeteer, Some Sonic powers nobody gives a damm about, except of me)

    Not only the damage caused by this change won't be fixed until every single Powerframe gets revamp, but current builds who are using a different type of powers for their with overdrive as the conected link, are screwed

    yes i know there WILL be more EUs on the future, but it's the present im more concered right now! The EU I may need may be made in 1 year

    It's also the fact that it had some darn good synergy with technology, Pulse Beam Riffle had a perfect synergy with Overdrive and now it's gone,
    MSA is obnoxious to use

    also Overdrive currently on PTS is screwed up
    • REC scaling became INFERIOR, END scaling is the ONLY way to go
      We asked for REC and END scaling to become the same, and Recovery became THE WORST
    • Not enough energy to help maintaining 3 PA Toggles on the same time, currently on live, PA DPS with 3 toggles need an absurd amount of energy managment

    and yes im upset because Star Stroke, my PA DPS i had been investing so much time and effort the past 2 years and i even farmed Justice gear for him, is going to be forced to get a 3rd Toggle (Bye Bye Tactical Missiles) which will change his energy managment

    I don't mind switching my REC mods (247 REC) to END, but this is SHOULDN'T be happening! The REC and END scaling should had been the SAME

    on the same time I don't see the PA Double Edged sword issues being resolved
    1. Targeting Arc, that DARN Targeting arc which wont hit the enemy right next to your face!
    2. Toggles locking down Self Heals Active Offenses/Defenses and with the bad timing, complety canceling them
      with the Toggle change
    3. Non Toggle PA builds cannot use Overdrive and Reconstruction Circuits, which means PA needs 1 new EU and 1 new Self heal (and no devs, giving Restoration ADV on Energy Wave is not a solution)
    4. The Annoying CD lockout after using a PA Toggle, let's say you are a PA Themed HEALER, that CD will screw up your healing target
    ​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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    warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    BUG:
    Wrist Bolter advantage is STILL over-riding, and shutting them off, other hand slot powers such as Concussor beam, Dual barrage, and Fire All Weapons.
    Post edited by carrionbaggage on
    .

    -=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
    "Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
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    dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    warcanch said:

    BUG:
    Wrist Bolter advantage is STILL over-riding, and shutting them off, other hand slot powers such as Concussor beam, Dual barrage, and Fire All Weapons.

    As far as l noticed from several things (such as plasma beam interaction with OV gloves after togglize - listed as Charge, but benefit from proc, and produces non-scaleable over time value) - Toggles and Maintains work in a quite different way. Maintains send start procedure only at time of launch - and then they continue until stopped. But Toggles, otoh sending start procedure each time they tick (e.g. once per 0.1 s for plasma beam).

    Wrist Bolter isn't toggle by default - you can change a way energy builders launched at settings - it's toggle (actually pseudo-toggle as it's client-side Toggle), click, pseudo-maintain. But technically Wrist Bolter is a CLICK power. And as it clicks by client, not a server, it interrupts Hand Slot PA toggle, in a same way other toggle would switch it off.
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    dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited November 2016

    Is it intended for New Power Armor to run 3 damage toggles indefinitely?
    With the new changes to Overdrive scaling and the revamped toggle costs, I don't see that happening without standing in a Circle of Arcane Power (which seems an odd necessity for a technology setup), or pausing your offense to use something like Kickback or Neuroelectric Pulse.

    l also disagree with OD overchange, because it seems to be very cookie-cutting in terms os stats. This change is based around assumption, that player will run standard EGO-END-REC layout. But (on live) there are another viable layouts as well, so l ran one time DEX-INT-REC layout, or you may go INT primary for Defense Penetration. People may also pick EU's not just because of powers they use, but because of specific Statting. And Statting maybe part of character theme. Why won't l pick Intelligence, if my character is a scientist? So going for Overdrive, but not for Killer Instinct for instance, because l inflate INT, but not EGO.

    l think there should have been one more PA Energy Unlock introduced, and Overdrive should left as it is (at least with its INT scaling). This new PA EU would benefit from END mostly, and activate at half of PA Toggle only + Full Charge of PA charge up - such as Chest Beam, Tactical Missiles, Energy Wave. Players, those currently have OD on live wouldn't get retcon on these characters, if OD won't be changed, and if they find new PA Unlock better, they may switch to it, and with paying money for retcon.
    Post edited by dakrushmor on
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    dakrushmordakrushmor Posts: 592 Arc User
    And to finish that... Know what to l came up now? So, since Chest Beam is no longer chest slot... Why keep it "chest" at all? Maybe convert it to something called "Plasma Blast", with adjustable emanation point and Left Hand by default? To players, those don't want to shoot anything outta breasts get Burn Through. But then again, there's spaghetti code, which prevents EM points be adjustable for non-subbed. So probably better keep stuff as it is.
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    avianosavianos Posts: 6,028 Arc User
    My only complain so far from this revamp is the Overdrive Change
    Overdrive is being changed to only benefit Power Armour builds and nothing more

    This is the worst time possible to NERF versiality EU since Half of the powers are still not revamped and haven't received their respective EUs (Earth, Mind, Force, Gadgeteer, Some Sonic powers nobody gives a damm about, except of me)

    Not only the damage caused by this change won't be fixed until every single Powerframe gets revamp, but current builds who are using a different type of powers for their with overdrive as the conected link, are screwed

    yes i know there WILL be more EUs on the future, but it's the present im more concered right now! The EU I may need may be made in 1 year

    and yes, i'm going to link once more my Sonic DPS build, because it's currently thinking outside the box and my character Crescendo is one of my childhood characters

    It's also the fact that it had some darn good synergy with technology, Pulse Beam Riffle had a perfect synergy with Overdrive and now it's gone,
    MSA is obnoxious to use

    also Overdrive currently on PTS is screwed up
    • REC scaling became INFERIOR, END scaling is the ONLY way to go
      We asked for REC and END scaling to become the same, and Recovery became THE WORST
    • Not enough energy to help maintaining 3 PA Toggles on the same time, currently on live, PA DPS with 3 toggles need an absurd amount of energy managment

    and yes im upset because Star Stroke, my PA DPS i had been investing so much time and effort the past 2 years and i even farmed Justice gear for him, is going to be forced to get a 3rd Toggle (Bye Bye Tactical Missiles) which will change his energy managment

    I don't mind switching my REC mods (247 REC) to END, but this is SHOULDN'T be happening! The REC and END scaling should had been the SAME

    on the same time I don't see the PA Double Edged sword issues being resolved
    1. Targeting Arc, that DARN Targeting arc which wont hit the enemy right next to your face!
    2. Toggles locking down Self Heals Active Offenses/Defenses and with the bad timing, complety canceling them
      with the Toggle change
    3. Non Toggle PA builds cannot use Overdrive and Reconstruction Circuits, which means PA needs 1 new EU and 1 new Self heal (and no devs, giving Restoration ADV on Energy Wave is not a solution)
    4. The Annoying CD lockout after using a PA Toggle, let's say you are a PA Themed HEALER, that CD will screw up your healing target
    ​​
    POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
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