I wonder if one reason for making this particular thread was to keep the price change conversation out of the main PTS/development threads. In the past, discussions like this, about things that weren't going to change, have dominated and derailed PTS threads.
This thread is the pressure-relief valve, the spillway, the detour.
Maybe, but I'm sure they're also looking for anything actually insightful that people might have to say about the change and how it could be done differently. It's not really their fault that in 12 pages that hasn't happened in favor of just saying the same thing over and over.
So if junk gear is enough to do any end game content, then that almost sounds like justice gear is less appealing to get. That actually sounds like a selling point against me grinding for justice gear.
The new content is supposed to be another source of SCR and GCR right? If people don’t feel the end goal is worth it, then why go through the effort to reach it?
There are more things to get with SCR and GCR than gear... why do people keep forgetting that? Why are people so obsessed with gear?
To me, it feels like a grind if I’m repeating the same tasks over and over with little to no change.
So... you run everything once and then don't play again until new content comes out? Has "repeating the same tasks over and over" ever been a new thing in video games? Switching characters doesn't change what you're doing in the game.
You could say these people are whinny, entitled, demanding, or whatever, but these people appear to be a much larger number than those that will happily spend hundreds of hours grinding for slightly better stats.
Appearances can be deceiving.
Either way, nothing has been taken away from those people. "Oh but Justice Gear takes GCR now!" eh... okay, and before it took months of grinding fights with crazy low rng drop chances... point? Folks keep trying to act as if "the game has been completely ruined".... why? because they came out with new rewards and gave some of them high prices? Because they came out with new content that is more challenging than the old content? Because they raised the price of Heroic Gear?
The amount of people happy to grind this much for a few extra stat points is actually really small.
I mean, rampage ques have been solidly healthy since the introduction of rampages quite a long while ago. That's actually a worse grind than GCR. There are clearly plenty of people in this game who are happy to grind their fingers to the bone... hell, the Justice grind was too much for even me to do more than once... on the other hand, 4 toons in full distinguished.
So if junk gear is enough to do any end game content, then that almost sounds like justice gear is less appealing to get. That actually sounds like a selling point against me grinding for justice gear.
This is correct. JG occupies the same space as rank 9 mods. The cosmetics and devices/powers are more appealing IMHO, so I would grind for them instead of the gear (if at all) if I were you.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I wonder if one reason for making this particular thread was to keep the price change conversation out of the main PTS/development threads. In the past, discussions like this, about things that weren't going to change, have dominated and derailed PTS threads.
This thread is the pressure-relief valve, the spillway, the detour.
I suppose that would make sense, yeah. Kind of a dick way to go about it, but it works.
Listening =/= Change. That's all I'm going to say.
No, see, that's the kind of listening one does with a young child who talks your ear off about their new toy or some other absolute non-priority. The kind of listening where you just say you're listening and then proceed to nod and say "uh-huh" every once in a while as you work on something else.
I could see this being a "young child" kind of listening. But I'd much, much rather the devs say outright that they don't give a damn instead of pretending as though they have any inkling of respect for the players and their input. Such a near-unanimous opposition to these prices would make any reasonable entity reconsider.
Dasher@Tool-box, donning his armor to prance into battle and blitz the enemy! No joke!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
No, see, that's the kind of listening one does with a young child who talks your ear off about their new toy or some other absolute non-priority. The kind of listening where you just say you're listening and then proceed to nod and say "uh-huh" every once in a while as you work on something else.
I could see this being a "young child" kind of listening. But I'd much, much rather the devs say outright that they don't give a damn instead of pretending as though they have any inkling of respect for the players and their input. Such a near-unanimous opposition to these prices would make any reasonable entity reconsider.
Irony is that you guys are the adult doing that type of listening to all the people that tell you what you disagree with. That includes the reasoning given by Kai on page 3.
Irony is that you guys are the adult doing that type of listening to all the people that tell you what you disagree with. That includes the reasoning given by Kai on page 3.
Kaizerin and the devs in general don't count for this. They're the ones asking for feedback, which realistically means they're wanting to hear what others have to say.
Those that disagree with toning down the prices are you (who, to my understanding, are more playing devil's advocate than outright agreeing with the prices), Spinny (who disagrees with everyone on principle), and-... Actually, IS there anyone else?
What all suggestive feedback can be given on this kind of thing? The ones I can think of are...
1: The prices are too high. 2: The currencies involved need to be made account-bound so that you can play the characters that you want to or that are needed for the content while still being able to get better gear for your characters. 3: GCR/SCR rewards need to be higher (basically the same as "the prices are too high"). 4: There needs to be more content that rewards GCR/SCR.
The first three have been blocked by arbitrary developer stubbornness. Can technically suggest things for the fourth, but that's about it, and it's really not directly related to the pricing of Justice gear. In fact, only the first of those feedback types is really directly applicable.
So, the question bears repeating.
Why, in a thread titled "Justice Gear Price Changes Feedback", after feedback is given on the price changes of Justice gear, have the developers outright stated that THE PRICES AREN'T GOING TO BE RECONSIDERED IN THE SLIGHTEST?!?! Are they just asking for APPLAUSE?!
AGAIN!I barely care about the prices. I've only got one character I'm interested in playing enough to justify gearing them up to their maximum potential. The other characters, I don't mind having in Mercenary gear. But asking for feedback and then blatantly and disrespectfully TRASHING itdisgusts me. It reeks of dishonesty and is outright insulting.
Dasher@Tool-box, donning his armor to prance into battle and blitz the enemy! No joke!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
If you think it's just me, that shows you haven't been listening. But who am I kidding, you made a conscious decision not to listen anymore a while ago, I'm just talking to a wall. The fact that you said "near-unanimous" proves that you've decided to only listen to people you agree with.
Now sure, I like to debate, but at least I'm willing to acknowledge that there are people who disagree with me.
If you think it's just me, that shows you haven't been listening.
Who else, then?
Dasher@Tool-box, donning his armor to prance into battle and blitz the enemy! No joke!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Start paying attention to people who disagree with you and you'll figure that out all on your own. If you can't tell, in my last post I gave up trying to get through to you on that, so you'll have to forge your own path if you actually care.
Start paying attention to people who disagree with you and you'll figure that out all on your own. If you can't tell, in my last post I gave up trying to get through to you on that, so you'll have to forge your own path if you actually care.
Yeah, no. You're basically alone in this, that's why you can't answer. You've not once given me (or anyone) a genuine argument, you've only ever been condescending and insulting, and you will continue to do so because you have no actual platform to stand on.
I do recall, actually, that Pantagruel somewhat agreed with the pricing, but also stated that some aspects need changing. So that's three, with two only borderline in-agreement, as opposed to the dozens who have called out how clearly idiotic the pricing and relevant systems are.
Post edited by williamkony on
Dasher@Tool-box, donning his armor to prance into battle and blitz the enemy! No joke!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Sterga its actually EASIER to alt in STO than it is in CO right now! the rep system and daily bonus marks allow alts to be geared up in only a few minutes play on each a day. you can easily gear 3-4 alts at a time, and within a reasonable time frame.
I make new alts fairly frequently in STO, unsurprisingly. When I start a new toon, I have my other toons craft some cool starting gear and mail it to the new guy (nothing like starting off a Fed with a pair of purple Mk II antiproton beam arrays and a purple quantum torpedo launcher!). I continue to do this as the toon advances, as every ten levels you add another two Marks to the max the toon can use. Eventually, I start getting the purple gear from other sources, like the Reputation system.
So far, I've only maxed one Rep, the Delta rep on my main - trying to decide who gets the sponsorship token that doubles the Rep points earned. I'm very close, however, to maxing the Temporal rep on my first Agent of Yesterday, Kevin Timeline; I'll probably give that token to my second, Stanek. (Or maybe to the new Klingon, Korkik - he's only recently made LCDR, and is IIRC at lvl 13 right now, so he won't be pursuing Reps for quite a while, as that system starts at lvl 52.)
So yes, STO is very alt-friendly. The only downside is that you don't get a free slot for maxing level on a toon; however, they occasionally give away free slots during special events (like the release of Legacy of Romulus and Agents of Yesterday), so now I have six toons on my main account...
Jonsills, you can make more than one sponsership token per rep. as long as you have the rep for it, you can make as many as you want. I made them for all 8 of mine. Delta recruit got 8reps to rank 5, made 8 sets of tokens.
TemporaL agent just got the ninth one to rank 5 and made the tokens for that one.
Yeah, no. You're basically alone in this, that's why you can't answer. You've not once given me (or anyone) a genuine argument, you've only ever been condescending and insulting, and you will continue to do so because you have no actual platform to stand on.
See the difference between us is, I don't need to tell myself stuff like that to feel like I have a good reason for thinking the way I do. I don't need to believe that "the majority" backs my opinions to think they're worth putting out there.
Well the price of the justice gear need to be lowered to 5-10% i'd say like instead of 450SCR it will be 425SCR and instead of 225GCR it will be around 215 GCR
Well the price of the justice gear need to be lowered to 5-10% i'd say like instead of 450SCR it will be 425SCR and instead of 225GCR it will be around 215 GCR
That was my original suggestion (though 5%, not 5-10) several pages back. I'm not holding my breath on that or any other change happening.
^ 50% at the very least. Maybe even 75% or more. With such a huge grind for just the gear, who the hell is going to have the energy or desire to continue grinding after that for all the other crap in the store?
(Hopefully) Useful CO Resources: HeroCreator (character planner), Cosmic Timers/Alert Checklist, Blood Moon Map, Anniversary Cat Map, and more (eventually, anyway).
To be honest, other than the gear and maybe a few of the mods, there's nothing really in the gcr store "at the moment" in which I am really interested. The costumes are meh, the auras are pretty limited and BoP, and none of the powers are ones I feel are must haves for any of my characters. They need to greatly expand the variety of items in the store that are not BoP to make the content worth grinding on. At the same time they can ditch the mods that only provide defense against certain limited types of attacks. Does anyone even use those? Every time I get one I feel like I'm getting a chump prize.
To be honest, other than the gear and maybe a few of the mods, there's nothing really in the gcr store "at the moment" in which I am really interested. The costumes are meh, the auras are pretty limited and BoP, and none of the powers are ones I feel are must haves for any of my characters. They need to greatly expand the variety of items in the store that are not BoP to make the content worth grinding on. At the same time they can ditch the mods that only provide defense against certain limited types of attacks. Does anyone even use those? Every time I get one I feel like I'm getting a chump prize.
I've gotten plenty of the mods that are focused on a limited type of attack from Cosmics. Those are usually deleted to make room right away. If I could set them to auto delete I would.
With such a huge grind for just the gear, who the hell is going to have the energy or desire to continue grinding after that for all the other crap in the store?
Spinny, apparently. He seems to love him some grind. Especially if he faceplants a lot at first. Makes him feel more l33t when he's finally got the stuff, I guess...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Kaizerin and the devs in general don't count for this. They're the ones asking for feedback, which realistically means they're wanting to hear what others have to say.
Those that disagree with toning down the prices are you (who, to my understanding, are more playing devil's advocate than outright agreeing with the prices), Spinny (who disagrees with everyone on principle), and-... Actually, IS there anyone else?
What all suggestive feedback can be given on this kind of thing? The ones I can think of are...
1: The prices are too high. 2: The currencies involved need to be made account-bound so that you can play the characters that you want to or that are needed for the content while still being able to get better gear for your characters. 3: GCR/SCR rewards need to be higher (basically the same as "the prices are too high"). 4: There needs to be more content that rewards GCR/SCR.
The first three have been blocked by arbitrary developer stubbornness. Can technically suggest things for the fourth, but that's about it, and it's really not directly related to the pricing of Justice gear. In fact, only the first of those feedback types is really directly applicable.
So, the question bears repeating.
Why, in a thread titled "Justice Gear Price Changes Feedback", after feedback is given on the price changes of Justice gear, have the developers outright stated that THE PRICES AREN'T GOING TO BE RECONSIDERED IN THE SLIGHTEST?!?! Are they just asking for APPLAUSE?!
AGAIN!I barely care about the prices. I've only got one character I'm interested in playing enough to justify gearing them up to their maximum potential. The other characters, I don't mind having in Mercenary gear. But asking for feedback and then blatantly and disrespectfully TRASHING itdisgusts me. It reeks of dishonesty and is outright insulting.
Oh no, if you actually read my posts you'd find that even I think the prices are to high. But, I at least have realized that we can't get them lower.
Its also funny about how people are complaining about the grind, saying it will be harder than it was before. Technically, you'll spend about the same amount of time playing the game after the change, as you did before the change.
Meh. When I get tired of playing one alt in cosmics, I switch to another alt. I might have them all in JG/DG in 2-3 more years. Don't care really. I have two toons in JG and one in full DG and they do marginally better than the ones I have in Legion, who in turn do slightly better than those in HG, then MG, etc. There is a noticeable difference at each level (which does not denote "large") but any of my level 40s can play any content just fine (perhaps with the exception of healer doing solo stuff requiring lots of dps).
I have one request if Kaizerin or anyone is still reading. Please include a conversion system for GCR/SCR. I have so much extra GCR on my main that I don't know what to do with it since I need SCR to buy anything. Even if it is 2GCR=3SCR. That is why I keep saying the daily cosmic mission is kinda pointless for me since I primarily do cosmics for endgame play. Now if they made that mission's reward 10 SCR instead of 7 GCR...I'd be all over it. Maybe let us choose a reward like some other missions?
Actually, maybe all of the upper level content (cosmics, TA, rampages) could use the "choose a reward" box? Might help a great deal in the form of flexibility for giving each toon the reward they want/need? Would that solve anything if you could choose from GCR, SCR, token, drifter, Questionite rewards?
Yeah, no. You're basically alone in this, that's why you can't answer. You've not once given me (or anyone) a genuine argument, you've only ever been condescending and insulting, and you will continue to do so because you have no actual platform to stand on.
See the difference between us is, I don't need to tell myself stuff like that to feel like I have a good reason for thinking the way I do. I don't need to believe that "the majority" backs my opinions to think they're worth putting out there.
Actually you have been with me as well and others ive seen. Not to mention the sg I suspect your in and no I wont say because im not like that.
Why can't they just make the prices nearly same as Distinguished/Determination Gear and just add Rampage Tokens with it?
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^: DeviantART|FurAffinity| Twitter
Why can't they just make the prices nearly same as Distinguished/Determination Gear and just add Rampage Tokens with it?
That's pretty much what they did? Distinguished is 250 gcr/500 scr, Justice is 225 gcr/450 scr and 4 tokens (the token requirement will typically be comparable effort to the extra scr).
Why can't they just make the prices nearly same as Distinguished/Determination Gear and just add Rampage Tokens with it?
That's pretty much what they did? Distinguished is 250 gcr/500 scr, Justice is 225 gcr/450 scr and 4 tokens (the token requirement will typically be comparable effort to the extra scr).
Really now? Strange, I thought it was higher than that. Then with the new zone's gcr rewards combined with Cosmics, it might be slightly bearable to get now.
__________________________________________________________________
Alts:
Lord Sans (Full Healer FF)/Axel Leonard (Crowd Controller/Off-Tank)
- - - - - -
Feel free to visit my websites!^^: DeviantART|FurAffinity| Twitter
I wouldn't pay any mind to spinnytop. He is starved for attention. It's why he perpetually voices the unpopular opinion, no matter how irrational: Condescending and snide comments rattle more cages. If you ignore him, he doesn't exist.
I agree with the majority here: The prices need to be slashed 50%-75% for me to care about this grind. The game needs to not just be alt-friendly, but to actively reward alting. That is how you get people to stay interested. Encourage them to play the characters they already love.
To be honest, other than the gear and maybe a few of the mods, there's nothing really in the gcr store "at the moment" in which I am really interested. The costumes are meh, the auras are pretty limited and BoP, and none of the powers are ones I feel are must haves for any of my characters. They need to greatly expand the variety of items in the store that are not BoP to make the content worth grinding on. At the same time they can ditch the mods that only provide defense against certain limited types of attacks. Does anyone even use those? Every time I get one I feel like I'm getting a chump prize.
Is there anything in the SCR store that you are interested in? GCR content is also a great source of SCR after all, but of course the great thing is that it's completely optional in that regard. Honestly it sounds like you're trying too hard to convince yourself to do GCR content. If you don't like it, you don't have to do it, and would you really want to be enticed into doing something you don't want to do just for the rewards?
Spinny, apparently. He seems to love him some grind. Especially if he faceplants a lot at first. Makes him feel more l33t when he's finally got the stuff, I guess...
Nah, I just have this advantage over the rest of you I guess: I actually enjoy playing this game. When the requirement for getting a reward is "play the game", I use this advantage to get that reward. SpinnyTop privilege!
I agree with the majority here: The prices need to be slashed 50%-75% for me to care about this grind. The game needs to not just be alt-friendly, but to actively reward alting. That is how you get people to stay interested. Encourage them to play the characters they already love.
That... literally makes no sense. Encourage people to alt to get them to play their existing characters? Now, allowing some transfer of SCR/GCR would be nice for these purposes (I have GCR piling up on some characters because there's nothing useful they can do with it, as they're already geared as far as GCR can take you unless I want to craft huge mods or start collecting Cosmic secondary defense with different damage types), but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about.
I agree with the majority here: The prices need to be slashed 50%-75% for me to care about this grind. The game needs to not just be alt-friendly, but to actively reward alting. That is how you get people to stay interested. Encourage them to play the characters they already love.
That... literally makes no sense. Encourage people to alt to get them to play their existing characters?
Please, reread what I said. It makes perfect sense. Encourage people to play their many characters (ie: alts), or do you think alting means only making new characters? If you have six characters you enjoy playing, the game should encourage it, instead of trying to force you to play only one.
Please, reread what I said. It makes perfect sense. Encourage people to play their many characters (ie: alts), or do you think alting means only making new characters? If you have six characters you enjoy playing, the game should encourage it, instead of trying to force you to play only one.
Alting does traditionally mean creating a new character, but even if we use your definition -- what does it have to do with the price of Justice gear? (as opposed to the debates about account-bound currencies et al).
Please, reread what I said. It makes perfect sense. Encourage people to play their many characters (ie: alts), or do you think alting means only making new characters? If you have six characters you enjoy playing, the game should encourage it, instead of trying to force you to play only one.
Alting does traditionally mean creating a new character, but even if we use your definition -- what does it have to do with the price of Justice gear? (as opposed to the debates about account-bound currencies et al).
I have never heard that definition from anyone. It means switching to another character. Example: "I'll be right back, I'm alting."
As for what alts have to do with Justice Gear and the new prices, you used to be able to collect account-bound pieces across many alts then transfer them to other alts through the shared bank -- meaning you could play on all your characters at your leisure and work toward gearing whoever you liked.
You could even change your mind for who you wanted to gear up at any time because the tokens you had collected weren't character-bound. Even the drifter salvage component was account-wide through a shared bank.
You could continue collecting without fear of being locked into one character's progression. Alternatively, you could easily collect an entire set of Heroic gear in a week's work. It was fun. It was casual.
The new prices are way too high to collect the gear on more than one character. Now, all time must be invested in a single character if hope of any progress is to be made. It is hostile to players who like variety in their playstyle, who don't want to be stuck on a single character, and it is counter to the spirit of this game for the last seven years.
Please, reread what I said. It makes perfect sense. Encourage people to play their many characters (ie: alts), or do you think alting means only making new characters? If you have six characters you enjoy playing, the game should encourage it, instead of trying to force you to play only one.
They are not forcing you to play one toon, that's your choice. In reality, what they are doing is forcing people to play the toons they want to gear up. If you want to gear up alt #3, you got to play alt #3, instead of your main. If this game had shared currencies, you'd play only one toon, put gear on your alts, and never play your alts.
Please, reread what I said. It makes perfect sense. Encourage people to play their many characters (ie: alts), or do you think alting means only making new characters? If you have six characters you enjoy playing, the game should encourage it, instead of trying to force you to play only one.
They are not forcing you to play one toon, that's your choice. In reality, what they are doing is forcing people to play the toons they want to gear up. If you want to gear up alt #3, you got to play alt #3, instead of your main. If this game had shared currencies, you'd play only one toon, put gear on your alts, and never play your alts.
Everything you said is completely wrong. Rampage currencies were account-wide currencies, as is Drifter salvage. Those are no longer going to be currency for acquiring Justice Gear. There is no "If this game had shared currencies," because until this change, it did have some, and it did not make me play only one toon. It gave me the flexibility to swap to any character I wished and continue pooling currency toward gearing one character all in one shot, then move onto the next character goal. Flexibility is being taken away from you, and you're using mental gymnastics to claim that it isn't, that it's a good thing. Your claim that they aren't forcing people to do anything is partially true, but they are certainly twisting our arms behind our backs to manipulate us into it. Edit: Anyhow, I said trying to force.
For the life of me I can't figure out why the devs care if we do the grind to gear up a character on 1 character or on everyone we have. You have to grind the same amount. You just don't get bored as much the latter way. It's like the devs want those of us with lots of alts to be bored.
Everything you said is completely wrong. Rampage currencies were account-wide currencies, as is Drifter salvage. Those are no longer going to be currency for acquiring Justice Gear. There is no "If this game had shared currencies," because until this change, it did have some, and it did not make me play only one toon. It gave me the flexibility to swap to any character I wished and continue pooling currency toward gearing one character all in one shot, then move onto the next character goal. Flexibility is being taken away from you, and you're using mental gymnastics to claim that it isn't, that it's a good thing. Your claim that they aren't forcing people to do anything is partially true, but they are certainly twisting our arms behind our backs to manipulate us into it. Edit: Anyhow, I said trying to force.
Everything you said is completely wrong. Rampage currencies were account-wide currencies, as is Drifter salvage. Those are no longer going to be currency for acquiring Justice Gear. There is no "If this game had shared currencies," because until this change, it did have some, and it did not make me play only one toon. It gave me the flexibility to swap to any character I wished and continue pooling currency toward gearing one character all in one shot, then move onto the next character goal. Flexibility is being taken away from you, and you're using mental gymnastics to claim that it isn't, that it's a good thing. Your claim that they aren't forcing people to do anything is partially true, but they are certainly twisting our arms behind our backs to manipulate us into it. Edit: Anyhow, I said trying to force.
Actually, not a single thing I said was wrong, its just your perspective on it that differs.
They are not forcing you to play one toon, that's your choice. In reality, what they are doing is forcing people to play the toons they want to gear up. If you want to gear up alt #3, you got to play alt #3, instead of your main. If this game had shared currencies, you'd play only one toon, put gear on your alts, and never play your alts.
For the life of me I can't figure out why the devs care if we do the grind to gear up a character on 1 character or on everyone we have. You have to grind the same amount. You just don't get bored as much the latter way. It's like the devs want those of us with lots of alts to be bored.
Actually, the BOP thing has more to do with keeping people from being able to farm things too fast. 50 alts with BoE means you can farm stuff 50 times as fast. This puts everyone on an equal playing field, regardless if they have 1 character or 50. It also keeps people from burning through content faster than intended. See, this is less about "punishing people for wanting to have lots of characters" and it's more about "not punishing people who have few characters, and keeping people with lots of characters from bypassing intended daily limits".
The fact that it makes you actually play your characters is just a positive side effect, and also counters the argument that it is "not alt-friendly".
If you have 50 characters and you want to gear them all, then go ahead and play them as you like. Whether you focus on one at a time, or jump around between them sporadically, it will still take the same total time to gear them all - it'll just be longer before the first one gets the gear, but the last piece of gear on your final character will come at the same time. If you only want to gear 3 but you also want to play other characters in the meantime then it will take longer, but you get to play whatever you like - upsides and downsides. At least finally there is some reward for focusing on a single character.
After all that I will point out that there are still shared currencies and BoE rewards on non-shared currencies, so your army of 50 alts still allows you to farm a lot of things much faster than someone with 1, and you can still cross-farm many rewards while playing whatever toon you like - just not all of them.
Everything you said is completely wrong. Rampage currencies were account-wide currencies, as is Drifter salvage. Those are no longer going to be currency for acquiring Justice Gear. There is no "If this game had shared currencies," because until this change, it did have some, and it did not make me play only one toon. It gave me the flexibility to swap to any character I wished and continue pooling currency toward gearing one character all in one shot, then move onto the next character goal. Flexibility is being taken away from you, and you're using mental gymnastics to claim that it isn't, that it's a good thing. Your claim that they aren't forcing people to do anything is partially true, but they are certainly twisting our arms behind our backs to manipulate us into it. Edit: Anyhow, I said trying to force.
Actually, not a single thing I said was wrong, its just your perspective on it that differs.
Let's... break this down.
Previously, I could play one or a dozen different characters to gear up one, or I could play one character to gear up a dozen. It was my choice how I divided my time. It was my choice which character I felt like playing at any given moment.
Now, I can gear up one character with one character, and I have to do it with the same powers every time. If I want to gear up others, I have to give them all equal playtime.
On top of that, the amount of time required is going up immensely. This has a direct impact upon how willing people are to engage in this soul-crushing grind. It makes a single-character's progression demand all of a person's limited online playtime. If you put your time into one character, but decide you want to play another, too bad. All your progress is stuck on that character and you're looking at starting anew. That's asking way too much of me.
There is nothing good about this change. It is removing choice. It is putting rewards out of reach that were once feasible to obtain.
When this goes live, I know where I'm going to spend my time and money, and it's not here. I know this feedback is all futile. I know that this change is going live no matter how much uproar it causes, so I've already found another game from another company to entertain me.
For the life of me I can't figure out why the devs care if we do the grind to gear up a character on 1 character or on everyone we have. You have to grind the same amount. You just don't get bored as much the latter way. It's like the devs want those of us with lots of alts to be bored.
It do seem that way, don't it?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
The rampages as they currently are allow you to swap and jump around and still be able to eventually get the gear you need for multiple toons at multiple times. I play this toon until I get a token, then I move on to my healer and play that one until l get a token, or I play this toon and send tokens to the one I'm trying to gear. With the change on test you can still do that but you will never get the gear on any of those alts unless you completely get the GCR and SCR needed on one toon, then move to another and start the grind for the next toon all over again. Unlike tokens now and after the test content launch, GCR and SCR are not swappable.
No amount of mental gymnastics disproves that this is an obvious change. Whether it's good or bad the playerbase will decide. But to say that everything is exactly the same as live as on test is utter ridiculousness. It is a less alt friendly based on the fact that you're going from a system that you could swap alts and still eventually get the gear you wanted to one where you can't. If you don't focus on one toon at a time, after this change, it will take you longer to get that gear per alt. GCR and SCR (which is character bound) was not a requirement before, it will be come the launch of the content on test.
That is a change that discourages alting anyway you spin it.
Champions is a game with tremendous customization options. You can make a hundred different characters and still have the tools available to make a hundred more. Part of the joy of customizing those characters is optimizing them, getting the best equipment you can so it can perform at peak efficiency, so you can see how your build fares when it's at its best, so you can get the satisfaction of a character well-planned. Is it necessary? No. Neither is playing the game in the first place. A game is played to have fun. Monotony is not fun. It's a very, very simple concept.
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Because at the moment there is nothing else of value to me in the gcr store, If cosmics/epics are going to be the things we can play at 40 then I'd like to be able to get the rewards for it (i.e. gear) in a way that's less boring. It's just that simple.
Previously, I could play one or a dozen different characters to gear up one, or I could play one character to gear up a dozen. It was my choice how I divided my time. It was my choice which character I felt like playing at any given moment.
Now, I can gear up one character with one character, and I have to do it with the same powers every time. If I want to gear up others, I have to give them all equal playtime.
On top of that, the amount of time required is going up immensely. This has a direct impact upon how willing people are to engage in this soul-crushing grind. It makes a single-character's progression demand all of a person's limited online playtime. If you put your time into one character, but decide you want to play another, too bad. All your progress is stuck on that character and you're looking at starting anew. That's asking way too much of me.
There is nothing good about this change. It is removing choice. It is putting rewards out of reach that were once feasible to obtain.
When this goes live, I know where I'm going to spend my time and money, and it's not here. I know this feedback is all futile. I know that this change is going live no matter how much uproar it causes, so I've already found another game from another company to entertain me.
So...its become like any other mmo. And it just goes to show what I said to be true with what you broke it down with.
Why are you people so obsessed with gear? Still waiting on the answer to that. If you want the gear fine... but you people talk like you need it.
Why are you so obsessed with making people grind so much to get it?
Dasher@Tool-box, donning his armor to prance into battle and blitz the enemy! No joke!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
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Because separating cash payments from gear acquirement is generally a good practice. I don't see that happening ever.
Good, now you're thinking. There are more things to get with SCR and GCR than gear... why do people keep forgetting that? Why are people so obsessed with gear?
So... you run everything once and then don't play again until new content comes out? Has "repeating the same tasks over and over" ever been a new thing in video games? Switching characters doesn't change what you're doing in the game.
Appearances can be deceiving.
Either way, nothing has been taken away from those people. "Oh but Justice Gear takes GCR now!" eh... okay, and before it took months of grinding fights with crazy low rng drop chances... point? Folks keep trying to act as if "the game has been completely ruined".... why? because they came out with new rewards and gave some of them high prices? Because they came out with new content that is more challenging than the old content? Because they raised the price of Heroic Gear?
I mean, rampage ques have been solidly healthy since the introduction of rampages quite a long while ago. That's actually a worse grind than GCR. There are clearly plenty of people in this game who are happy to grind their fingers to the bone... hell, the Justice grind was too much for even me to do more than once... on the other hand, 4 toons in full distinguished.
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The cosmetics and devices/powers are more appealing IMHO, so I would grind for them instead of the gear (if at all) if I were you.
PVP is starving without rewards
1. Please give us Daily PVP missions that reward Questionite.
2. Please give us an exchange rate between Acclaim and Recognition so that PVP has access to all "On Alert" PVE rewards.
I could see this being a "young child" kind of listening. But I'd much, much rather the devs say outright that they don't give a damn instead of pretending as though they have any inkling of respect for the players and their input. Such a near-unanimous opposition to these prices would make any reasonable entity reconsider.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Those that disagree with toning down the prices are you (who, to my understanding, are more playing devil's advocate than outright agreeing with the prices), Spinny (who disagrees with everyone on principle), and-... Actually, IS there anyone else?
What all suggestive feedback can be given on this kind of thing? The ones I can think of are...
1: The prices are too high.
2: The currencies involved need to be made account-bound so that you can play the characters that you want to or that are needed for the content while still being able to get better gear for your characters.
3: GCR/SCR rewards need to be higher (basically the same as "the prices are too high").
4: There needs to be more content that rewards GCR/SCR.
The first three have been blocked by arbitrary developer stubbornness. Can technically suggest things for the fourth, but that's about it, and it's really not directly related to the pricing of Justice gear. In fact, only the first of those feedback types is really directly applicable.
So, the question bears repeating.
Why, in a thread titled "Justice Gear Price Changes Feedback", after feedback is given on the price changes of Justice gear, have the developers outright stated that THE PRICES AREN'T GOING TO BE RECONSIDERED IN THE SLIGHTEST?!?! Are they just asking for APPLAUSE?!
AGAIN! I barely care about the prices. I've only got one character I'm interested in playing enough to justify gearing them up to their maximum potential. The other characters, I don't mind having in Mercenary gear. But asking for feedback and then blatantly and disrespectfully TRASHING it disgusts me. It reeks of dishonesty and is outright insulting.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Now sure, I like to debate, but at least I'm willing to acknowledge that there are people who disagree with me.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I do recall, actually, that Pantagruel somewhat agreed with the pricing, but also stated that some aspects need changing. So that's three, with two only borderline in-agreement, as opposed to the dozens who have called out how clearly idiotic the pricing and relevant systems are.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Jonsills, you can make more than one sponsership token per rep. as long as you have the rep for it, you can make as many as you want. I made them for all 8 of mine. Delta recruit got 8reps to rank 5, made 8 sets of tokens.
TemporaL agent just got the ninth one to rank 5 and made the tokens for that one.
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Though I can see why some would find it useful.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Its also funny about how people are complaining about the grind, saying it will be harder than it was before. Technically, you'll spend about the same amount of time playing the game after the change, as you did before the change.
I have one request if Kaizerin or anyone is still reading. Please include a conversion system for GCR/SCR. I have so much extra GCR on my main that I don't know what to do with it since I need SCR to buy anything. Even if it is 2GCR=3SCR. That is why I keep saying the daily cosmic mission is kinda pointless for me since I primarily do cosmics for endgame play. Now if they made that mission's reward 10 SCR instead of 7 GCR...I'd be all over it. Maybe let us choose a reward like some other missions?
Actually, maybe all of the upper level content (cosmics, TA, rampages) could use the "choose a reward" box? Might help a great deal in the form of flexibility for giving each toon the reward they want/need? Would that solve anything if you could choose from GCR, SCR, token, drifter, Questionite rewards?
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I agree with the majority here: The prices need to be slashed 50%-75% for me to care about this grind. The game needs to not just be alt-friendly, but to actively reward alting. That is how you get people to stay interested. Encourage them to play the characters they already love.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
As for what alts have to do with Justice Gear and the new prices, you used to be able to collect account-bound pieces across many alts then transfer them to other alts through the shared bank -- meaning you could play on all your characters at your leisure and work toward gearing whoever you liked.
You could even change your mind for who you wanted to gear up at any time because the tokens you had collected weren't character-bound. Even the drifter salvage component was account-wide through a shared bank.
You could continue collecting without fear of being locked into one character's progression. Alternatively, you could easily collect an entire set of Heroic gear in a week's work. It was fun. It was casual.
The new prices are way too high to collect the gear on more than one character. Now, all time must be invested in a single character if hope of any progress is to be made. It is hostile to players who like variety in their playstyle, who don't want to be stuck on a single character, and it is counter to the spirit of this game for the last seven years.
The fact that it makes you actually play your characters is just a positive side effect, and also counters the argument that it is "not alt-friendly".
If you have 50 characters and you want to gear them all, then go ahead and play them as you like. Whether you focus on one at a time, or jump around between them sporadically, it will still take the same total time to gear them all - it'll just be longer before the first one gets the gear, but the last piece of gear on your final character will come at the same time. If you only want to gear 3 but you also want to play other characters in the meantime then it will take longer, but you get to play whatever you like - upsides and downsides. At least finally there is some reward for focusing on a single character.
After all that I will point out that there are still shared currencies and BoE rewards on non-shared currencies, so your army of 50 alts still allows you to farm a lot of things much faster than someone with 1, and you can still cross-farm many rewards while playing whatever toon you like - just not all of them.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Previously, I could play one or a dozen different characters to gear up one, or I could play one character to gear up a dozen. It was my choice how I divided my time. It was my choice which character I felt like playing at any given moment.
Now, I can gear up one character with one character, and I have to do it with the same powers every time. If I want to gear up others, I have to give them all equal playtime.
On top of that, the amount of time required is going up immensely. This has a direct impact upon how willing people are to engage in this soul-crushing grind. It makes a single-character's progression demand all of a person's limited online playtime. If you put your time into one character, but decide you want to play another, too bad. All your progress is stuck on that character and you're looking at starting anew. That's asking way too much of me.
There is nothing good about this change. It is removing choice. It is putting rewards out of reach that were once feasible to obtain.
When this goes live, I know where I'm going to spend my time and money, and it's not here. I know this feedback is all futile. I know that this change is going live no matter how much uproar it causes, so I've already found another game from another company to entertain me.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No amount of mental gymnastics disproves that this is an obvious change. Whether it's good or bad the playerbase will decide. But to say that everything is exactly the same as live as on test is utter ridiculousness. It is a less alt friendly based on the fact that you're going from a system that you could swap alts and still eventually get the gear you wanted to one where you can't. If you don't focus on one toon at a time, after this change, it will take you longer to get that gear per alt. GCR and SCR (which is character bound) was not a requirement before, it will be come the launch of the content on test.
That is a change that discourages alting anyway you spin it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!