than a less than subtle nudge towards the c-store poorly implemented with a half bottomed job of trying to make it subtle by advertising out of date events or weeks/months old FE.
Landing page suggestion: replace mission spotlights with foundry spotlights once the player completes the most recent arc. That would push the "nothing new!" point further back, give nods to community creations, and in general make the landing page (in whatever form it takes) more relevant to more people (simply by inclusion of other interest groups.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
as advertising (a very large portion of the landing page is advertising the cash availability of the Vanguard pack) it fails too-people hitting the 'esc' menu to leave the game aren't going to go "Oh! I should buy this!". as I said before, it's not like it's going to stimulate impulse buys where it's at, and we already get as default an automatic hail for the next mission in the string while playing story content, so that feature's really a non-starter, esp. when it's linked to the 'leave the game' or 'adjust your controls' menu.
The gamma vanguard pack takes up less than one forth of the total space of the landing page. Advertising paid content is simply not the main function of the landing page. By panel count and area (ie. quantifiable parameters), the landing page's main function can be most easily said to be "advertising and shortcuts to the most recent gameplay content." At that, the landing page improves on the efficiency of queuing for those activities (as previously quantified) at the cost of providing irrelevant information for those on the way out. The ESC menu may be a repository more than a first choice whose aim is catching exiting players (though that is speculation.) Either way, the Hail menu would be a better place for this (same benefits, more inuitive, and without the minor interference [ie. slight shifting] with the ESC menu.)
Functionally, it duplicates other, less inconvenient functions, ergonomically it's laid out poorly, shall I go on?
Actually, yes because ergonomics relates to mechanical efficiency and I would be interested to know how you'd simplify a four-item grid that brings features previously buried in submenus to the forefront. There's the point that the ESC menu suffers from having increased mouse travel between prompts but mouse travel of greater magnitude (center to far right via auto-hail) is saved via the landing page's transwarp short cut.
I think the best you can say here is that ergonomics is a wash objectively, with results depending on the preferences of individual users (ie. how often are they're using the landing page transwarp per login) and relatedly the circumstances of their VIL playthroughs (ie. are they still working through it?) At first, the landing page can offer a large mechanical benefit (esc-play-done, just once compensates for ESC), but results diminish over time as missions are completed, queuing become less frequent (ie. zeroes), and the ESC menu problems remain.
Again, an updated hail menu would be a better place but I think that trying to maintain that there are absolutely no benefits to the landing page (via confrontational contradiction which brooks no positive discussion) is just a short cut to concluding there being no net benefits (which is more directed at other recent posters who are very explicit in their denials.) It's not difficult to maintain that while there may be some restricted positive points they don't overcome the greater negatives or invalidate critical suggestions.
Now, I know-you don't think those people matter, after all, it's around 4-5% of players-but only 4-5% of players even bother giving feedback, most people just leave, or grit their teeth and endure, depending on the other qualities a work has.
And one last point: sampling bias is an important consideration while polling opinion. People in a limited survey matter but taking their responses as wholly representative (as opposed to suggestive) of a population can lead a developer to catering to a single demographic among a more diverse population. The arguments here are important because they are elaborated but it's worth considering that Cryptic probably has population-level usage parameters to evaluate whether the feedback here is representative (to within a specified confidence interval.) Us assuming it is probably doesn't hurt our arguments (the assumption is natural to our limited experience and those who haven't taken a stats class before) but it doesn't advance those arguments either (since Cryptic can tell for themselves whether or not that's likely true. The best we can do by making any statement about how representative we are is corroborate by chance something they already know.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The "utility" degrades over time. and 30% is still a fairly significant amount of space to advertise an extremely expensive planned buy as if it were an impulse item near the checkout.
Less than a quarter, ie. <25%. The C-store ad is one of four items and the size is reduced compared to PVE and mission spotlights.
But, I will agree that dedicating this space to a single, non-rotating c-store ad is not effective advertising across the STO population (the launcher does it much better and consistently before the player exist the game. IMO: simply providing a C-store link at the top which flashes with sales or new content would be simpler and more effective. The button could also be neatly paired with a calendar link with notifications for new events.)
Does it work faster or smoother than the pre-existing system? not really. It also clouds up the functionality of the escape menu.
There wasn't really pre-existing system. What we had was a scattering of notices and buried short cuts. Take free transwarps for example. They were present on the hail menu if you knew that by clicking on the left banner you could bring up the option at the bottom of the description of some items. We had to explain this to Kael on Ten Forward. It wasn't pretty (because this was not an intuitive process.) Likewise for "what's new" being buried in the bottom right drop down of the mini-map. And between those two that's half the landing page.
There is that cost to the ESC menu but the overt placing of the latest content centrally is performing the function of obnoxious town crier. Relying on the player's know how as opposed to mechanical design for base function is weakness of a poorly integrated system designed for a mass market. At minimum, there should be something like the landing page (somewhere in the game) reliably orienting players to what's going on in STO. However, it should also provide a wider sweep of current information (ex. Foundry spotlights, calendar), preference options (ex. disable pop-up) ,and so on through critical feedback.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I look at it as a user, and as if I were playing the game for the first time. The pre-existing layout used prior to the addition was pretty streamlined (aside from some issues with queues, but those are on a different keybind.)
A new user wouldn't even notice it. Almost every game has some kind of splash screen on login.
Does it work faster or smoother than the pre-existing system? not really. It also clouds up the functionality of the escape menu. the habit of closing pop-ups elsewhere shows up here for me, and probably other people too-in this case, you end up closing the menu at least a few times before you've retrained your fingers not to.
There is no "pre-existing system." It certainly works better than having to look up information outside the game. And it does not "cloud up" anything but the miles of previously unused space around the ESC menu.
The "utility" degrades over time. and 30% is still a fairly significant amount of space to advertise an extremely expensive planned buy as if it were an impulse item near the checkout.
So what? They had that space empty for a few days and people whined about that, too. Big deal.
There wasn't really pre-existing system. What we had was a scattering of notices and buried short cuts. Take free transwarps for example. They were present on the hail menu if you knew that by clicking on the left banner you could bring up the option at the bottom of the description of some items. We had to explain this to Kael on Ten Forward. It wasn't pretty (because this was not an intuitive process.) Likewise for "what's new" being buried in the bottom right drop down of the mini-map. And between those two that's half the landing page.
There is that cost to the ESC menu but the overt placing of the latest content centrally is performing the function of obnoxious town crier. Relying on the player's know how as opposed to mechanical design for base function is weakness of a poorly integrated system designed for a mass market. At minimum, there should be something like the landing page (somewhere in the game) reliably orienting players to what's going on in STO. However, it should also provide a wider sweep of current information (ex. Foundry spotlights, calendar), preference options (ex. disable pop-up) ,and so on through critical feedback.
It's not a "cost" and it's not "obnoxious." IMO the ESC menu is the perfect place to put it, as it had a large amount of unused screenspace and since it blocks clicking items underneath it anyway there's really no downside to putting that space to use. Even for people who don't use the landing page at all, the empty space there was before was no more useful.
But it definitely should provide more information. If this thread had focused on suggesting useful functionality for the landing page instead of pointless whining about its existence, we could've actually got it improved some more. Just like they put the Mirror event in it when it was mentioned here.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
“Advertising paid content is simply not the main function of the landing page. By panel count and area (ie. quantifiable parameters), the landing page's main function can be most easily said to be "advertising and shortcuts to the most recent gameplay content." At that, the landing page improves on the efficiency of queuing for those activities (as previously quantified) at the cost of providing irrelevant information for those on the way out”
Accept for the landing page doesn’t improve efficiency as I proved earlier on. I ran though the new missions mostly in one session the normal way and via the landing page on a different alt. The normal way flowed better, was more efficient with less clicks and the process of using it was faster, smoother and more intuitive. While working though the chain of missions via the landing page had a worse flow to it with extra clicks and just less intuitive plus it was much slower to use. In the end I stopped using the landing page as there was no point. It didn’t even save me EC not that the tiny amount of EC matters.
Even if you did use the landing page for missions, you are going to use it for that a very large order of magnitude less than the amount of times you see the landing page. Which means the landing page is inefficient.
Moving it to the hail posting area is not needed. When someone wants to do a mission, they can always hit J instead of Esc and guess what? J takes you to a overview landing page that shows you feature episodes, current in game events, feature queues, even top foundry maps. Pretty much everything the landing should but does not show. So I ask when we already have a landing page (overview) linked to the J key why do we need another one linked to the Esc key that provides less useful info? The overview page already does a much better job. The Overview page is far superior and instead of forcing info into a player face when they don’t need or want it, you are giving the player the required information in a suitable location when they want to see it.
“Actually, yes because ergonomics relates to mechanical efficiency and I would be interested to know how you'd simplify a four-item grid that brings features previously buried in submenus to the forefront.”
Super easy, you do what most sensible games do and show the landing page upon landing in the game before character selection. What other well designed games shows you the landing page on exiting the game? What other game shows you the landing page 30+ times in one play session without quitting which is what I experienced on Sunday? What benefit is there in showing a landing page that many times or on exit?
The only time I would do that is a popup showing what’s coming in the future like next season. The landing page should be moved away from the esc key, linked in with calendar events and sales along with being displayed before character selection screen but not on change character. Now that would be both useful and should being in more money then the current landing page. Better yet give it a tick box that makes it disappear until it’s updated, at which point you can retick do not display until the next change. That works fantastic in the Division. It gives all the benefits of a landing page and none of the downsides of STO landing page.
“Actually, yes because ergonomics relates to mechanical efficiency and I would be interested to know how you'd simplify a four-item grid that brings features previously buried in submenus to the forefront.”
Super easy, you do what most sensible games do and show the landing page upon landing in the game before character selection. What other well designed games shows you the landing page on exiting the game? What other game shows you the landing page 30+ times in one play session without quitting which is what I experienced on Sunday? What benefit is there in showing a landing page that many times or on exit?
Other than the "what's new," none of the functions of the landing page would work before character selection.
“Actually, yes because ergonomics relates to mechanical efficiency and I would be interested to know how you'd simplify a four-item grid that brings features previously buried in submenus to the forefront.”
Super easy, you do what most sensible games do and show the landing page upon landing in the game before character selection. What other well designed games shows you the landing page on exiting the game? What other game shows you the landing page 30+ times in one play session without quitting which is what I experienced on Sunday? What benefit is there in showing a landing page that many times or on exit?
Other than the "what's new," none of the functions of the landing page would work before character selection.
Which I do not see as a problem as the other main functions are already on the overview splash page and which does the same job only better. As for the Vanguard pack that can be moved into the Zen store splash screen.
What's new with current in game time limited events and time limited sales are what matter and all that can be done before character selection. Even the news about the Vanguard pack can be put there.
It's a step in the opposite direction from the relatively clean setup they've had, and it feels a lot like an attempt at forcing behaviours, I think that's one of the root causes of the objection; it's not even a subtle attempt, it's overt and tacky, almost a disrespect of the intelligence of their audience.
^^ Zactly! Esc is for closing stuff, not for summoning ad pages (and I wouldn't even call it subtle).
And let us not make the mistake of thinking that forumites only take up 5% of the player base, and thus their opinion is irrelevant. Because that 5% accounts for 95% of the ppl that matter; for one, because, indeed, those folks tend to keep the lights on at Cryptic (I should know, LOL); and simply because ppl who post, are generally the people who care about the game (care enough to participate in the forums, at least). Not that the aforementioned 5% is entitled to anything per se; but it would be a gross mistake to just dismiss their collective dismay for lacking in absolute numbers.
So, if 95% of the posts, made by said 5% of the playerbase, tells you they don't like what you did, you'd be foolish not to take heed.
landing page will remain. I'm sure of it. CO had it first then NW had it, now STO has it. I like NW's best tho.
I would scrap it from the ESC menu tho, that's not needed.
It's a step in the opposite direction from the relatively clean setup they've had, and it feels a lot like an attempt at forcing behaviours, I think that's one of the root causes of the objection; it's not even a subtle attempt, it's overt and tacky, almost a disrespect of the intelligence of their audience.
^^ Zactly! Esc is for closing stuff, not for summoning ad pages (and I wouldn't even call it subtle).
And let us not make the mistake of thinking that forumites only take up 5% of the player base, and thus their opinion is irrelevant. Because that 5% accounts for 95% of the ppl that matter; for one, because, indeed, those folks tend to keep the lights on at Cryptic (I should know, LOL); and simply because ppl who post, are generally the people who care about the game (care enough to participate in the forums, at least). Not that the aforementioned 5% is entitled to anything per se; but it would be a gross mistake to just dismiss their collective dismay for lacking in absolute numbers.
So, if 95% of the posts, made by said 5% of the playerbase, tells you they don't like what you did, you'd be foolish not to take heed.
That is what PWE seems to fail to grasp about binding stuff they want to sell us to the ESC key and menu. When I hit ESC, I either want to switch characters or log off. I am not going to pay any attention to anything else at that point. It also pops up when ever we log in and switch characters, which suggests desperation because they are essentially spamming players with this information excessively. It isn't that most of us aren't interested in the information. We just want to see it when we want to see it. PWE can't seem to understand, even when told, that a button in the top right UI or binding it to a key we can call it up to read when we want to see it, would be much more effective. A simple audible and text notification when we log on to let us know there is new information available and have the button flash would be more than effective.
I am totally immune to the Landing Page's power at this point. I even adjusted to the where the buttons on the options page are, now. I totally ignore it and am accustom to clicking where I need to and get it out of my way.
That is not how it should work.
I agree....Neverwinter's version is very nice.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
As it has been stated several times already. Just add a way to disable it.
I was fine without it before. I'll continue to be fine without it from here on out. It offers nothing useful any how.
It's like a billboard on the side of the road, or an online ad, which most everyone has an ad blocked of some sort for. It's there to advertise. But outside of that, it has no use, just takes up space.
Apparently there is a 24 hr R&D promotion running for the chance to win a past infinity ship. With a 30% off R&D packs to boot
Now they have been kind enough to update the STO Launcher/Arc Launcher/Reddit STO Page and Facebook with this news.
However the landing page, the thing we are forced to see each time we do a fresh logon/change character/tinker with our settings or just want to exit the game. THIS NEWS/INFO ? nadda not on the landing page.
Maybe its too much work to update regularly or update for a 24hr sell/promotion.
Maybe the Dev Team themselves were against adding this to the game and ofc can't be publicly vocal about it.
But I ask again we have a sale/promotion that could draw people into the c-store for a purchase and nothing on the landing page.
So I ask again what is its purpose ?.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Apparently there is a 24 hr R&D promotion running for the chance to win a past infinity ship. With a 30% off R&D packs to boot
Now they have been kind enough to update the STO Launcher/Arc Launcher/Reddit STO Page and Facebook with this news.
However the landing page, the thing we are forced to see each time we do a fresh logon/change character/tinker with our settings or just want to exit the game. THIS NEWS/INFO ? nadda not on the landing page.
Maybe its too much work to update regularly or update for a 24hr sell/promotion.
Maybe the Dev Team themselves were against adding this to the game and ofc can't be publicly vocal about it.
But I ask again we have a sale/promotion that could draw people into the c-store for a purchase and nothing on the landing page.
So I ask again what is its purpose ?.
I agree this is precisely the type of thing that should be on a landing page. So not only is the landing page inferior and so much worse than other methods for feature episodes, it’s also useless at telling us what is going off in game. So just what is the function and point of the landing page?
I'm seeing the "Welcome Back" screen on multiple characters per game session again. Is anyone else seeing this?
Am currently only seeing the landing page once per character per game session atm. Even if I completely exit the game and re-start it am not always seeing the landing again on characters that have already seen it. No pattern yet nor consistency for this second behavior as I only noticed it after reading your comment.
I'm seeing the "Welcome Back" screen on multiple characters per game session again. Is anyone else seeing this?
Am currently only seeing the landing page once per character per game session atm. Even if I completely exit the game and re-start it am not always seeing the landing again on characters that have already seen it. No pattern yet nor consistency for this second behavior as I only noticed it after reading your comment.
It seems that you are correct. I saw the "Welcome Back" window once per character upon first login to each character after the patch. Thereafter, I only see it on the first character I log on to per game session.
Exceptions
The following characters have never seen the landing page. They don't see the "Welcome Back" window, and they still get the old main menu without the landing page.
Level 6 Romulan
Level 6 Reman
Level 60 Jem'Hadar
On the other hand, my level 3 Feds do see the landing page. This appears to be tied to character progression in some way.
I'm seeing the "Welcome Back" screen on multiple characters per game session again. Is anyone else seeing this?
Yup, I'm getting the landing page on every character. Really annoying to have this feature back. Once a session on one character and then dealing with it when alting is bad enough.
Apparently there is a 24 hr R&D promotion running for the chance to win a past infinity ship. With a 30% off R&D packs to boot
Now they have been kind enough to update the STO Launcher/Arc Launcher/Reddit STO Page and Facebook with this news.
However the landing page, the thing we are forced to see each time we do a fresh logon/change character/tinker with our settings or just want to exit the game. THIS NEWS/INFO ? nadda not on the landing page.
Maybe its too much work to update regularly or update for a 24hr sell/promotion.
Maybe the Dev Team themselves were against adding this to the game and ofc can't be publicly vocal about it.
But I ask again we have a sale/promotion that could draw people into the c-store for a purchase and nothing on the landing page.
So I ask again what is its purpose ?.
I agree, if you want this thing to have meaning, show current sales. Otherwise it's simply a waste of resources that annoys players rather than encourages them spending money.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
Oh joy every character change today i'm being treated to the landing page. PWE just remove it. You've proven you can't make the stupid thing work. We have enough bugs in this game already. Do we really need this nonsense as well ?
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
The landing page was bugged on release, popping up on every character login
This bug was fixed in a patch
The bug reappeared a while later
The bug was fixed again within a few days
The bug reappeared early this week
The bug seems to have been fixed once more
This does not give a good impression. My suggestion is take this feature back to the drawing board (i.e., remove it), figure out how to make it work properly in a reliable way, and then perhaps re-release it. Keep in mind that you could save some resources by removing this buggy and evidently unpopular feature and then leaving it out indefinitely.
The landing page was bugged on release, popping up on every character login
This bug was fixed in a patch
The bug reappeared a while later
The bug was fixed again within a few days
The bug reappeared early this week
The bug seems to have been fixed once more
This does not give a good impression. My suggestion is take this feature back to the drawing board (i.e., remove it), figure out how to make it work properly in a reliable way, and then perhaps re-release it. Keep in mind that you could save some resources by removing this buggy and evidently unpopular feature and then leaving it out indefinitely.
The apparent bug is back! The landing spam popped up on every character I bothered to login on today. Fhis is going to significantly impact any desire for me to bother with the Summer Event. Logging in daily and playing multiple characters, this annoyance is going to be beyond tolerable for that grind. If that bug still appears the day the summer stuff launches, I will pass on the whole event!
landing page will remain. I'm sure of it. CO had it first then NW had it, now STO has it. I like NW's best tho.
I would scrap it from the ESC menu tho, that's not needed.
Yea I've said the same thing and the Neverwinter's team has done an amazing job on their Landing Page! The STO team would have likely gotten a lot more positive feedback had they just slightly updated the HAIL page with 5-7 tabs across the top; along with the inclusion of the Calendar TAB to reference 2 month summary of events and activities. I think had we used the current HAIL feature alone with the Calendar it be far more similar to Neverwinter and had been more positively received even with a few slight minor changes in how it looks.
▪ The big denoting difference is Neverwinter doesn't bind it to the ESC Menu to Landing.
Oh joy every character change today i'm being treated to the landing page. PWE just remove it. You've proven you can't make the stupid thing work. We have enough bugs in this game already. Do we really need this nonsense as well ?
The landing page was bugged on release, popping up on every character login
This bug was fixed in a patch
The bug reappeared a while later
The bug was fixed again within a few days
The bug reappeared early this week
The bug seems to have been fixed once more
This does not give a good impression. My suggestion is take this feature back to the drawing board (i.e., remove it), figure out how to make it work properly in a reliable way, and then perhaps re-release it. Keep in mind that you could save some resources by removing this buggy and evidently unpopular feature and then leaving it out indefinitely.
The apparent bug is back! The landing spam popped up on every character I bothered to login on today. Fhis is going to significantly impact any desire for me to bother with the Summer Event. Logging in daily and playing multiple characters, this annoyance is going to be beyond tolerable for that grind. If that bug still appears the day the summer stuff launches, I will pass on the whole event!
As Protoneous and I were discussing, what seems to be happening is this:
1. The "Welcome Back" window will appear the first time you log on to each character after patch.
2. The first character you log on to after the starting the game client will see the "Welcome Back" window. Any other character will not see the "Welcome Back" window if he or she has already seen it once after the patch.
I'm seeing the "Welcome Back" screen on multiple characters per game session again. Is anyone else seeing this?
Am currently only seeing the landing page once per character per game session atm. Even if I completely exit the game and re-start it am not always seeing the landing again on characters that have already seen it. No pattern yet nor consistency for this second behavior as I only noticed it after reading your comment.
It seems that you are correct. I saw the "Welcome Back" window once per character upon first login to each character after the patch. Thereafter, I only see it on the first character I log on to per game session.
Exceptions
The following characters have never seen the landing page. They don't see the "Welcome Back" window, and they still get the old main menu without the landing page.
Level 6 Romulan
Level 6 Reman
Level 60 Jem'Hadar
On the other hand, my level 3 Feds do see the landing page. This appears to be tied to character progression in some way.
Taking an optimistic outlook, if they've fixed it and broke it this is most likely an indicator they're still working on it. A great first step would to just get rid of the bug so it's behavior is consistent. A great second step would be a re-design similar to what @strathkin mentioned that works so well for Neverwinter, complete with a disconnect from the ESC menu.
This reminds me of the slow evolution of the new queue system. It drove people batty at first for a variety of reasons but was gradually tweaked to the point of it working quite well.
I still believe this was thrown up in haste to meet a corporate objective and hope it gets the attention it needs over time to be as effective as possible for both keeping newer players informed while also being as unobtrusive as possible for those with many alts and/or who keep themselves up to date via other means. In other words a big plus for everybody, including Cryptic.
Yup has popped up again every character login this morning after yesterdays patch. So 29 additional clicks of the mouse required today, however the BIG ISSUE I have with those 29 clicks is they are required so I can close the obstructive pop up and ACCESS THE GAME. I can't even leave it in the background load up the inventory or r&d and do my dil refining and reset admiralty without jumping this hurdle.
How is this an improvement to the game ?.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Comments
Landing page suggestion: replace mission spotlights with foundry spotlights once the player completes the most recent arc. That would push the "nothing new!" point further back, give nods to community creations, and in general make the landing page (in whatever form it takes) more relevant to more people (simply by inclusion of other interest groups.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Actually, yes because ergonomics relates to mechanical efficiency and I would be interested to know how you'd simplify a four-item grid that brings features previously buried in submenus to the forefront. There's the point that the ESC menu suffers from having increased mouse travel between prompts but mouse travel of greater magnitude (center to far right via auto-hail) is saved via the landing page's transwarp short cut.
I think the best you can say here is that ergonomics is a wash objectively, with results depending on the preferences of individual users (ie. how often are they're using the landing page transwarp per login) and relatedly the circumstances of their VIL playthroughs (ie. are they still working through it?) At first, the landing page can offer a large mechanical benefit (esc-play-done, just once compensates for ESC), but results diminish over time as missions are completed, queuing become less frequent (ie. zeroes), and the ESC menu problems remain.
Again, an updated hail menu would be a better place but I think that trying to maintain that there are absolutely no benefits to the landing page (via confrontational contradiction which brooks no positive discussion) is just a short cut to concluding there being no net benefits (which is more directed at other recent posters who are very explicit in their denials.) It's not difficult to maintain that while there may be some restricted positive points they don't overcome the greater negatives or invalidate critical suggestions.
And one last point: sampling bias is an important consideration while polling opinion. People in a limited survey matter but taking their responses as wholly representative (as opposed to suggestive) of a population can lead a developer to catering to a single demographic among a more diverse population. The arguments here are important because they are elaborated but it's worth considering that Cryptic probably has population-level usage parameters to evaluate whether the feedback here is representative (to within a specified confidence interval.) Us assuming it is probably doesn't hurt our arguments (the assumption is natural to our limited experience and those who haven't taken a stats class before) but it doesn't advance those arguments either (since Cryptic can tell for themselves whether or not that's likely true. The best we can do by making any statement about how representative we are is corroborate by chance something they already know.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Less than a quarter, ie. <25%. The C-store ad is one of four items and the size is reduced compared to PVE and mission spotlights.
But, I will agree that dedicating this space to a single, non-rotating c-store ad is not effective advertising across the STO population (the launcher does it much better and consistently before the player exist the game. IMO: simply providing a C-store link at the top which flashes with sales or new content would be simpler and more effective. The button could also be neatly paired with a calendar link with notifications for new events.)
There wasn't really pre-existing system. What we had was a scattering of notices and buried short cuts. Take free transwarps for example. They were present on the hail menu if you knew that by clicking on the left banner you could bring up the option at the bottom of the description of some items. We had to explain this to Kael on Ten Forward. It wasn't pretty (because this was not an intuitive process.) Likewise for "what's new" being buried in the bottom right drop down of the mini-map. And between those two that's half the landing page.
There is that cost to the ESC menu but the overt placing of the latest content centrally is performing the function of obnoxious town crier. Relying on the player's know how as opposed to mechanical design for base function is weakness of a poorly integrated system designed for a mass market. At minimum, there should be something like the landing page (somewhere in the game) reliably orienting players to what's going on in STO. However, it should also provide a wider sweep of current information (ex. Foundry spotlights, calendar), preference options (ex. disable pop-up) ,and so on through critical feedback.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
There is no "pre-existing system." It certainly works better than having to look up information outside the game. And it does not "cloud up" anything but the miles of previously unused space around the ESC menu.
So what? They had that space empty for a few days and people whined about that, too. Big deal.
But it definitely should provide more information. If this thread had focused on suggesting useful functionality for the landing page instead of pointless whining about its existence, we could've actually got it improved some more. Just like they put the Mirror event in it when it was mentioned here.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Even if you did use the landing page for missions, you are going to use it for that a very large order of magnitude less than the amount of times you see the landing page. Which means the landing page is inefficient.
Moving it to the hail posting area is not needed. When someone wants to do a mission, they can always hit J instead of Esc and guess what? J takes you to a overview landing page that shows you feature episodes, current in game events, feature queues, even top foundry maps. Pretty much everything the landing should but does not show. So I ask when we already have a landing page (overview) linked to the J key why do we need another one linked to the Esc key that provides less useful info? The overview page already does a much better job. The Overview page is far superior and instead of forcing info into a player face when they don’t need or want it, you are giving the player the required information in a suitable location when they want to see it.
Super easy, you do what most sensible games do and show the landing page upon landing in the game before character selection. What other well designed games shows you the landing page on exiting the game? What other game shows you the landing page 30+ times in one play session without quitting which is what I experienced on Sunday? What benefit is there in showing a landing page that many times or on exit?
The only time I would do that is a popup showing what’s coming in the future like next season. The landing page should be moved away from the esc key, linked in with calendar events and sales along with being displayed before character selection screen but not on change character. Now that would be both useful and should being in more money then the current landing page. Better yet give it a tick box that makes it disappear until it’s updated, at which point you can retick do not display until the next change. That works fantastic in the Division. It gives all the benefits of a landing page and none of the downsides of STO landing page.
What's new with current in game time limited events and time limited sales are what matter and all that can be done before character selection. Even the news about the Vanguard pack can be put there.
^^ Zactly! Esc is for closing stuff, not for summoning ad pages (and I wouldn't even call it subtle).
And let us not make the mistake of thinking that forumites only take up 5% of the player base, and thus their opinion is irrelevant. Because that 5% accounts for 95% of the ppl that matter; for one, because, indeed, those folks tend to keep the lights on at Cryptic (I should know, LOL); and simply because ppl who post, are generally the people who care about the game (care enough to participate in the forums, at least). Not that the aforementioned 5% is entitled to anything per se; but it would be a gross mistake to just dismiss their collective dismay for lacking in absolute numbers.
So, if 95% of the posts, made by said 5% of the playerbase, tells you they don't like what you did, you'd be foolish not to take heed.
I would scrap it from the ESC menu tho, that's not needed.
That is what PWE seems to fail to grasp about binding stuff they want to sell us to the ESC key and menu. When I hit ESC, I either want to switch characters or log off. I am not going to pay any attention to anything else at that point. It also pops up when ever we log in and switch characters, which suggests desperation because they are essentially spamming players with this information excessively. It isn't that most of us aren't interested in the information. We just want to see it when we want to see it. PWE can't seem to understand, even when told, that a button in the top right UI or binding it to a key we can call it up to read when we want to see it, would be much more effective. A simple audible and text notification when we log on to let us know there is new information available and have the button flash would be more than effective.
That is not how it should work.
I agree....Neverwinter's version is very nice.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I was fine without it before. I'll continue to be fine without it from here on out. It offers nothing useful any how.
It's like a billboard on the side of the road, or an online ad, which most everyone has an ad blocked of some sort for. It's there to advertise. But outside of that, it has no use, just takes up space.
Now they have been kind enough to update the STO Launcher/Arc Launcher/Reddit STO Page and Facebook with this news.
However the landing page, the thing we are forced to see each time we do a fresh logon/change character/tinker with our settings or just want to exit the game. THIS NEWS/INFO ? nadda not on the landing page.
Maybe its too much work to update regularly or update for a 24hr sell/promotion.
Maybe the Dev Team themselves were against adding this to the game and ofc can't be publicly vocal about it.
But I ask again we have a sale/promotion that could draw people into the c-store for a purchase and nothing on the landing page.
So I ask again what is its purpose ?.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
It seems that you are correct. I saw the "Welcome Back" window once per character upon first login to each character after the patch. Thereafter, I only see it on the first character I log on to per game session.
Exceptions
The following characters have never seen the landing page. They don't see the "Welcome Back" window, and they still get the old main menu without the landing page.
Level 6 Romulan
Level 6 Reman
Level 60 Jem'Hadar
On the other hand, my level 3 Feds do see the landing page. This appears to be tied to character progression in some way.
Yup, I'm getting the landing page on every character. Really annoying to have this feature back. Once a session on one character and then dealing with it when alting is bad enough.
I agree, if you want this thing to have meaning, show current sales. Otherwise it's simply a waste of resources that annoys players rather than encourages them spending money.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
This does not give a good impression. My suggestion is take this feature back to the drawing board (i.e., remove it), figure out how to make it work properly in a reliable way, and then perhaps re-release it. Keep in mind that you could save some resources by removing this buggy and evidently unpopular feature and then leaving it out indefinitely.
The apparent bug is back! The landing spam popped up on every character I bothered to login on today. Fhis is going to significantly impact any desire for me to bother with the Summer Event. Logging in daily and playing multiple characters, this annoyance is going to be beyond tolerable for that grind. If that bug still appears the day the summer stuff launches, I will pass on the whole event!
Yea I've said the same thing and the Neverwinter's team has done an amazing job on their Landing Page! The STO team would have likely gotten a lot more positive feedback had they just slightly updated the HAIL page with 5-7 tabs across the top; along with the inclusion of the Calendar TAB to reference 2 month summary of events and activities. I think had we used the current HAIL feature alone with the Calendar it be far more similar to Neverwinter and had been more positively received even with a few slight minor changes in how it looks.
▪ The big denoting difference is Neverwinter doesn't bind it to the ESC Menu to Landing.
As Protoneous and I were discussing, what seems to be happening is this:
1. The "Welcome Back" window will appear the first time you log on to each character after patch.
2. The first character you log on to after the starting the game client will see the "Welcome Back" window. Any other character will not see the "Welcome Back" window if he or she has already seen it once after the patch.
Fixed quote. Vanilla, don't eat this post.
This reminds me of the slow evolution of the new queue system. It drove people batty at first for a variety of reasons but was gradually tweaked to the point of it working quite well.
I still believe this was thrown up in haste to meet a corporate objective and hope it gets the attention it needs over time to be as effective as possible for both keeping newer players informed while also being as unobtrusive as possible for those with many alts and/or who keep themselves up to date via other means. In other words a big plus for everybody, including Cryptic.
How is this an improvement to the game ?.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.