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Beating a dead horse - Captain as highest endgame rank.

captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,627 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
As per title - make Captain (the true 'hero' rank of Star Trek) the highest endgame rank, with Fleet leaders able to unlock the rank 'Admiral'.

Or, for goodness sake, please, PLEASE, let NPCs address us as our chosen Titles (like Commander, Captain, Lieutenant....and yes, even Moist, or Torpedo Target, etc. Because NO ONE else can see the NPC dialog except us and it is the PLAYER'S choice to be called that.)

I am SOOOO sick of being called Admiral everywhere I go when I am clearly wearing CAPTAIN stripes/pips. ;)

Thanks! :)
My consolidated list of game improvements for STO:
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
«134567…11

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    gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    That ship has long sailed. Besides some of us are in RP fleets with more than one Admiral and have admirals of differing rank.

    Just wear the pips in game appropriate to your RP rank and call it a day.

    They should simply allow us to choose the rank we are called in dialouge.
    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    darthmeow504 wrote: »
    We are captains, we command starships, Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    Sigh, no it's not. Kirk, Decker, Ross, Janeway all commanded starships whilst in the admiralty. There are numerous admirals in TOS that also do so, as does Black in ENT, at least two Admirals-of-the-week in TNG, and obviously Fleet Admiral Marcus. Admiral is a rank above captain that gives you more responsibilities that may mean being transferred to a Starbase or Outpost but can mean a Starship. Real captians accept their promotion like professional grownups.

    Kirk is the single exception to this as he believes he'll be chained to a desk when made Admiral (well, apart from the fact that he remained in command of the Enterprise as Admiral in TMP and in TWoK). Well, technically Riker also refused to be promoted but finally grew up by NEM taking command of the Titan.
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
    #TASforSTO


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    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    boachevboachev Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    That ship has long sailed. Besides some of us are in RP fleets with more than one Admiral and have admirals of differing rank.

    Just wear the pips in game appropriate to your RP rank and call it a day.

    They should simply allow us to choose the rank we are called in dialouge.

    This is the solution I'd go with. It's probably a much harder fix than it looks though...
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    darthmeow504 wrote: »
    Extending it beyond Captain was always ridiculous, as you don't act in an Admiralty function. They should have had a special, dialogue and vanity name only rank of "Star Admiral" for a one star Captain exclusively for subscribers and left the rest of us at Captain. We are captains, we command starships, Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    If we can go from Ensign to Fleet Admiral in only two years, then we can have Admirals commanding starships. Having Admiral flying around in ships actually makes more sense than being stuck at some desk. It gives them a fresh perspective of what is actually going on instead of relying on reports and it prevents the top brass from being wiped out in a coordinated attack. Having the top brass stuck at Starfleet HQ means that one strike will wipe out the command structure and require inexperienced individuals to take their place.

    Having the option to go by our titles or rank would be the way to go. Not everyone wants to be a Captain or Admiral. Some of us want to be Master Chef. They could start by using our titles in future missions since it would likely be easier to program in than replace every rank variable in every instance of dialogue.
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    starkaos wrote: »
    darthmeow504 wrote: »
    Extending it beyond Captain was always ridiculous, as you don't act in an Admiralty function. They should have had a special, dialogue and vanity name only rank of "Star Admiral" for a one star Captain exclusively for subscribers and left the rest of us at Captain. We are captains, we command starships, Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    If we can go from Ensign to Fleet Admiral in only two years, then we can have Admirals commanding starships. Having Admiral flying around in ships actually makes more sense than being stuck at some desk. It gives them a fresh perspective of what is actually going on instead of relying on reports and it prevents the top brass from being wiped out in a coordinated attack. Having the top brass stuck at Starfleet HQ means that one strike will wipe out the command structure and require inexperienced individuals to take their place.

    Having the option to go by our titles or rank would be the way to go. Not everyone wants to be a Captain or Admiral. Some of us want to be Master Chef. They could start by using our titles in future missions since it would likely be easier to program in than replace every rank variable in every instance of dialogue.

    Very true. There are a few examples of Admirals participating in open conflicts. If you look around in other ST games, there are ships designed for and favoured specifically by Admirals too. However, my bug-bear about the levelling is that it is way, way too quick at the lower levels. From level 50 onwards, it's actually on the better side. I really hate the 'I want it now/1 button I win' crowds.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
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    gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    xyquarze wrote: »
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...

    Why is that not a distinguished and appropriate title? :p

    In all seriousness though just put a special flag on the rank titles (all of them- plus ensign) and maybe also a few of the other ones like "Doctor"
    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • Options
    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    gradii wrote: »
    xyquarze wrote: »
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...

    Why is that not a distinguished and appropriate title? :p

    In all seriousness though just put a special flag on the rank titles (all of them- plus ensign) and maybe also a few of the other ones like "Doctor"

    Why should it matter what Rank you are called if you are the only one that can see it?
  • Options
    gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    xyquarze wrote: »
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...

    Why is that not a distinguished and appropriate title? :p

    In all seriousness though just put a special flag on the rank titles (all of them- plus ensign) and maybe also a few of the other ones like "Doctor"

    Why should it matter what Rank you are called if you are the only one that can see it?

    Because it matters to you.
    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • Options
    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    gradii wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    xyquarze wrote: »
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...

    Why is that not a distinguished and appropriate title? :p

    In all seriousness though just put a special flag on the rank titles (all of them- plus ensign) and maybe also a few of the other ones like "Doctor"

    Why should it matter what Rank you are called if you are the only one that can see it?

    Because it matters to you.

    I was responding to restricting your "Rank" to certain titles while leaving Ranks like Moist and Torpedo Target out. So if someone wants their Rank to be Moist, Torpedo Target, or Master Chef, then they should have the freedom to select that Rank since no one else can see it.
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    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,395 Arc User
    You know, I've been thinking of a far easier to program and far funnier option:
    The NPCs keep referring to you as your rank but you get to reply a variation of "Copy that... And that's Captain, by the way." every time. If you choose all those replies over the game, you get an accolade with a little bonus.

    Of course, every single NPC will happily ignore your replies, but that'd make a welcome running gag.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
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    gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    gradii wrote: »
    xyquarze wrote: »
    A problem with the title you're called would be that in past threads players have voiced they very much like their "Moist" or "Torpedo Target" as a title, but not being addressed like that. To please that part of the base (which I should call "this part", since I am included here), you'd need to differentiate between those types of titles. You DON'T want to address my Ferasan as "Fast and Flurrious"...

    Why is that not a distinguished and appropriate title? :p

    In all seriousness though just put a special flag on the rank titles (all of them- plus ensign) and maybe also a few of the other ones like "Doctor"

    Why should it matter what Rank you are called if you are the only one that can see it?

    Because it matters to you.

    I was responding to restricting your "Rank" to certain titles while leaving Ranks like Moist and Torpedo Target out. So if someone wants their Rank to be Moist, Torpedo Target, or Master Chef, then they should have the freedom to select that Rank since no one else can see it.

    Fair enough that makes sense.
    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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    nekofury86nekofury86 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    captainhunter1 wrote: »
    As per title - make Captain (the true 'hero' rank of Star Trek) the highest endgame rank, with Fleet leaders able to unlock the rank 'Admiral'.

    Or, for goodness sake, please, PLEASE, let NPCs address us as our chosen Titles (like Commander, Captain, Lieutenant....and yes, even Moist, or Torpedo Target, etc. Because NO ONE else can see the NPC dialog except us and it is the PLAYER'S choice to be called that.)

    I am SOOOO sick of being called Admiral everywhere I go when I am clearly wearing CAPTAIN stripes/pips. ;)

    Thanks! :)

    If you're looking for a true "role playing" experience, you might want to choose another game... this one is about nothing more than DPS.
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    discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 533 Arc User
    In the original series, the episode with the Doomsday Machine, the captain of the Constellation was a commodore and in the episode where that computer controls the Enterprise and runs amok, the captain of the Lexington was a commodore.
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    darthmeow504 wrote: »
    We are captains, we command starships, Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    Sigh, no it's not. Kirk, Decker, Ross, Janeway all commanded starships whilst in the admiralty. There are numerous admirals in TOS that also do so, as does Black in ENT, at least two Admirals-of-the-week in TNG, and obviously Fleet Admiral Marcus. Admiral is a rank above captain that gives you more responsibilities that may mean being transferred to a Starbase or Outpost but can mean a Starship. Real captians accept their promotion like professional grownups.

    Kirk is the single exception to this as he believes he'll be chained to a desk when made Admiral (well, apart from the fact that he remained in command of the Enterprise as Admiral in TMP and in TWoK). Well, technically Riker also refused to be promoted but finally grew up by NEM taking command of the Titan.

    In order:
    • Spock Captain Decker was the actual titular commanding officer of USS Enterprise in TMP but ceded direct command to Kirk due to the urgency of the mission (they needed to cut some links out of the chain of command, so to speak, to speed things up). In TWOK Kirk Captain Spock was in charge of a cadet cadre on a training mission and Kirk was just along for the ride, and in TS4S and TVH Kirk was acting illegally and was demoted for it.
    • Commodore Decker (no relation) held the rank of commodore, which in current naval usage is not an actual rank but a title that refers to a ranked captain who has been put in a billet that would normally go to a rear admiral. (Source: my father, Commander, US Navy (retired).)
    • There is no evidence that Ross was in direct command of a single starship. He primarily commanded from a desk and appeared on a bridge set once on video in "What You Leave Behind", which could easily be just the flag bridge/CIC from which he directs the fleet, not the command bridge of his flagship USS Bellerophon from whence the flag captain fights the ship. Ditto any random admirals-of-the-week: there is zero evidence they were CO of the ship rather than simply hitching a ride on it to visit Picard.
    • Future!Janeway was acting illegally in "Endgame", and Prime!Janeway was chained to a desk in Nemesis.
    • Marcus was not acting as a regular officer, he was leading a chunk of an illegal paramilitary group.

    Try again.

    (EDITED)
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    @starswordc

    In TMP Spock wasn't even in Starfleet anymore having retired and gone back to Vulcan to undergo Kholinahr. Decker was the Captain of the Enterprise until Admiral Kirk, under orders from Starfleet Command, took command of the ship to address the V'ger emergency, Spock rejoined after they left spacedock & was reinstated at the rank of Commander.

    In TWOK Spock was the captain of Enterprise after it had been relegated to duty as a training ship, his direct superior Admiral Kirk was aboard for an inspection when they recieved the distress call from Regula 1.

    You might want to recheck your sources.

    Ok, so I misremembered that one, but the basic idea stands.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Oh, since artan & I have gone over the Commodore thing before, back in the 60s when those episodes were written Commodore was the rank now known as Rear Admiral Lower Half, when it was phased out by the US Navy as a rank while season 2 of TNG was filming the show's writers decided to follow suit. So in TOS Ross & Nechayev would have been Commodores & in TNG Decker h Wesley would have been Admirals.

    Red herring. You're still only one for eight on "flag officers legitimately commanding single starships". And it's from TOS, which couldn't even keep people's rank insignia straight half the time.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    I'm not sure how hard it'd be to implement at this point, but I'd definitelly love to be able to choose what 'rank' to be addressed as. Always wore Captain pips with my character and the 'Admiral' thing is kind of... odd. It's not a necessity to "immerse" myself, more like a QoL at this point, that would be great to have.

    The whole level = rank is very unlikely to be changed at this point. Besides, there are people out there, who do like being Admirals. So taking it away from them, after so long, could be seen not so-favorably.
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    staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    [*] Commodore Decker (no relation) held the rank of commodore, which in current naval usage is not an actual rank but a title that refers to a ranked captain who has been put in a billet that would normally go to a rear admiral. (Source: my father, Commander, US Navy (retired).)

    FWIW, "Commodore" is still the rank of a 1* officer in the Royal Navy. While Starfleet generally uses USN parlance, Cdre Decker also has the single thick band on his sleeve of a Commodore's rank. So it looks like in the TOS era they've got the RN-style rank...
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    theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,504 Arc User
    +1 to NPCs using my choosen title / captain rank notions.

    Not that I have any hope. The one thing that Cryptic hates more than going back to fix up old stuff is going back fix tedious old stuff that they piled upon over the years.
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    starswordc wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    darthmeow504 wrote: »
    We are captains, we command starships, Admiral is a bloody desk job.

    Sigh, no it's not. Kirk, Decker, Ross, Janeway all commanded starships whilst in the admiralty. There are numerous admirals in TOS that also do so, as does Black in ENT, at least two Admirals-of-the-week in TNG, and obviously Fleet Admiral Marcus. Admiral is a rank above captain that gives you more responsibilities that may mean being transferred to a Starbase or Outpost but can mean a Starship. Real captians accept their promotion like professional grownups.

    Kirk is the single exception to this as he believes he'll be chained to a desk when made Admiral (well, apart from the fact that he remained in command of the Enterprise as Admiral in TMP and in TWoK). Well, technically Riker also refused to be promoted but finally grew up by NEM taking command of the Titan.

    In order:
    • Spock Captain Decker was the actual titular commanding officer of USS Enterprise in TMP but ceded direct command to Kirk due to the urgency of the mission (they needed to cut some links out of the chain of command, so to speak, to speed things up). In TWOK Kirk Captain Spock was in charge of a cadet cadre on a training mission and Kirk was just along for the ride, and in TS4S and TVH Kirk was acting illegally and was demoted for it.
    • Commodore Decker (no relation) held the rank of commodore, which in current naval usage is not an actual rank but a title that refers to a ranked captain who has been put in a billet that would normally go to a rear admiral. (Source: my father, Commander, US Navy (retired).)
    • There is no evidence that Ross was in direct command of a single starship. He primarily commanded from a desk and appeared on a bridge set once on video in "What You Leave Behind", which could easily be just the flag bridge/CIC from which he directs the fleet, not the command bridge of his flagship USS Bellerophon from whence the flag captain fights the ship. Ditto any random admirals-of-the-week: there is zero evidence they were CO of the ship rather than simply hitching a ride on it to visit Picard.
    • Future!Janeway was acting illegally in "Endgame", and Prime!Janeway was chained to a desk in Nemesis.
    • Marcus was not acting as a regular officer, he was leading a chunk of an illegal paramilitary group.

    Try again.

    (EDITED)

    Okay.
    • Kirk was the captain of the Enterprise in TMP, you don't get out of that. He took over from Decker.
    • Commodore is a rank, not a title. Source, Starfleet as show in a television show called Star Trek, not a non-analogous real word organisation. I don't care what the US Navy currently use nor will I ever. Starfleet's one stripe admiral rank is commodore. Every single one star admiral in canon material was referred to as commodore with the term rear admiral lower half not being uttered once in the 50 year history.
    • Ross commands a Galaxy Class in the Dominion War, he's sen in the centre seat of said ship in battle scenes. There is no such thing as a flag bridge on any Starfleet ships. There's main bridges and battle bridges useful on ships with saucer seperation, but normal ships have but one.
    • Prime Janeway is taking her call from a ready room as far as I can tell
    • Marcus is acting in his official capacity as head of a fully certified and legitimate branch of Starfleet.
    ​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    Im cool with the ranks ingame as they are , i mean after everything the players has done and seen and accomplished to remain at a captains rank would be a little stupid.
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    fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    According to Beyond. Vice Admirals dont fly either :) According to TNG Admirals can pick their own ship. So with everything Star Trek it's one of those "as the plot demands it" deals. Set you title to captain and move on sadly thisll never change. Hell If we get a 60-70 next we will be Emperor or President of the UFP not much higher we can go hehe
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