Please no. I want the Discovery Enterprise to look like something that was created recently not 50 years ago.
Agreed. I loved that old show, still do - but its strength lay in neither set design nor ship design, but rather in the stories told and the actors telling them. Redesigning the look of the Connie isn't exactly going to break this old fan's heart.
Truth is, IMHO, Sci-fi is about how we perceive the future from our current period it is created in. So, for example, back In the 60s it was considered empowering for woman to wear less.
Today, my niece see those short skirts as a pervy choice by 60s studio men to give pervy young men something to tune in for.
To be fair, She never saw this item of clothing.
As far as what a Connie should look like, inside and out ( again IMHO ): Outside only minor variations, since it will be the first 30 years of it's run before the major re-fit to the STM/WoK version. The Interior can literal be placed any where between technology from ST:Ent to TOS / Okuda CGI updates still running currently on BBC America and on ME TV. Like, Dax, I have a fondness for the things of my youth.
I think it was Gene Roddenberry who once said, of the Enterprise, "It's simply a vehicle for story telling." Or maybe it was David Gerrold. Both love their little"Inside Baseball" joke about writing and story telling. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I got the Dax mentality as well.
And the enterprise looked GREAT in the Ds9 tribble story.
If you ask me if they're change the design to be more like it was in TOS, they should make a blend refit and TOS designs. Take the nacelle pylons, the torp bay and the overall shape of the engineering hull from the refit. The neck (apart from the section hidden under the torp bay), Nav deflector assembly, saucer (including the impulse engines), the actually nacelles and the paint scheme from the TV series version.
Thus creating a design that looks like it could become the refit without a total rebuild (especially if you scale it the same rough size as the refit) while still honoring the orginal.
EDIT:obviously Small tweaks have to be made to better marry the 2 designs into 1 rather then looking like they took peices of 2 ships and glued them together, but I was talking about broad design elements not details.
So... the proposed Phase 2 Enterprise?
close but I'd have it with full on TOS nacelles, like the DSC upgrade had, not those hybrids. There's nothing wrong with the TOS design for the nacelles and those are components I could see easily being something you alter in a "refit", the problem with the TMP "refit" is that it doesn't share anything with pre-refit design making actually a totally new ship with same name and registry rather then the old after a refit.
I'm not really understanding the difference between what you're proposing and what we actually got. Is it just a matter of the proportions and small details?
Also, the DSC version doesn't have full-on TOS nacelles, it has a hybrid between the TOS and NX nacelles, which I very much enjoy.
The Connie is supposed to be the creation of a civilization FAR more advanced than US.
Interesting ... I wonder why the technology inside the TOS Connie looks like stuff from 50+ years ago then?
Except it really doesn't (and never did).
- The High Resolution inlaid computer display terminals in TOS didn't exist IRL in 1966.
Your letting your bias in that uyou know it was a TV filming set constructed of plywood and paint (with plastic backlit orverlays to make info in the the displays appear hi-rez and colorful) color you perception it it.
IMO the above bridge actually looks more advanced then the TMP Bridge (that's supposedly more advanced):
With it's monochome displays and simple vector graphics on (admittedly working real time for camera shots) inlaid physical CRT display units.
In fact I still prefer the smooth skinned greyish TOS 1701 to the bright white aztec patterened swpt nacelle redo of the TMP 1701, bu that's me.
As always YMMV
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Except those "high-res" displays never changed. Not even from episode to episode. Why is there a still-shot of an emission nebula directly above the engineer's station in every show? Or that M-class planet above Communications? Is that in case the comms officer forgets what most habitable planets look like?
The Connie is supposed to be the creation of a civilization FAR more advanced than US.
Interesting ... I wonder why the technology inside the TOS Connie looks like stuff from 50+ years ago then?
Except it really doesn't (and never did).
- The High Resolution inlaid computer display terminals in TOS didn't exist IRL in 1966.
Your letting your bias in that uyou know it was a TV filming set constructed of plywood and paint (with plastic backlit orverlays to make info in the the displays appear hi-rez and colorful) color you perception it it.
IMO the above bridge actually looks more advanced then the TMP Bridge (that's supposedly more advanced):
With it's monochome displays and simple vector graphics on (admittedly working real time for camera shots) inlaid physical CRT display units.
In fact I still prefer the smooth skinned greyish TOS 1701 to the bright white aztec patterened swpt nacelle redo of the TMP 1701, bu that's me.
As always YMMV
FRIEND! I feel the same way, about that post of yours.
Frankly, I think the TMP-era bridge is the most practical layout of all the Star Trek bridges (save arguably the Defiant). The seating is ergonomic; all the controls are in easy reach of the station they're assigned to; all the information is clearly and accessibly displayed (unlike the 'scopes' used in TOS and ENT); there's little space wasted on empty walls. By contrast, the TOS design isn't very efficient, with lots of wasted space and worse, a large number of controls out of reach of the stations they're supposed to be used by, plus the navigation controls being at floor level between the Helm and Tactical stations and the afore-mentioned scopes. By contrast, the ENT-D Bridge is massive, but with lots of empty space. Here, the security officer doesn't even get a chair! This is perhaps a good thing, since half the tactical controls are out of reach of the centre of the console anyway. I give TNG props for really going to town with the 'configurable controls' concept with the auxiliary bridge stations, but this gets hit by the fact that LCARS makes almost no sense (because it was almost entirely artistic until later series), violating the number one rules of ergonomics and User Interface design: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Defiant went the opposite direction, with the compact bridge design meaning there were very few spare stations, but the stations that were there were easily-utilised by the crew operating them (case in point, the wraparound helm console). Voyager, again, fails in this respect in the fact that the Ops and Security stations were clearly designed to be operated while standing (in a fleet with a standard of 8-hour shifts), even though they had chairs, and where half the screens were behind the operator when he/she was operating the control console.
the Disco engines looked waaaaaaay too big. I'd lop off a 3rd of them myself. And what's this fetish for angular engines in Disco?
Because the DSC ships are directly before the TMP era ships.
You realise the Conni is an older ship than the DSC ships right? It's nacelles are primitive cylindrical ones like the Kelvin or NX not the futuristic boxy ones that all ships from the Walker to Sovereign have (excluding the Galaxy and anything kitbashed from the Galaxy).
- The High Resolution inlaid computer display terminals in TOS didn't exist IRL in 1966.
Your letting your bias in that uyou know it was a TV filming set constructed of plywood and paint (with plastic backlit orverlays to make info in the the displays appear hi-rez and colorful) color you perception it it.
Except it does and still does. You're letting your bias of filling in what you can actually see with what you want to see colour your perception. The TOS bridge doesn't even display useful or readable information. It's interfaces are awful (bloody jellybeans) and it's shaping and construction are primitive. Space is wasted, shapes are basic, user-friendliness is non-existent
IMO the above bridge actually looks more advanced then the TMP Bridge (that's supposedly more advanced):
With it's monochome displays and simple vector graphics on (admittedly working real time for camera shots) inlaid physical CRT display units.
Yes, the construction of TMP leaves a lot to be desired but the overall style still looks decades more advanced than TOS and barely needs much change to get to the vastly superior visuals seen from TWoK and onwards (all those TNG guest ships as well).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @jonsills said: > Except those "high-res" displays never changed. Not even from episode to episode. Why is there a still-shot of an emission nebula directly above the engineer's station in every show? Or that M-class planet above Communications? Is that in case the comms officer forgets what most habitable planets look like?
What kind of nonsense criticism is this? Of course they never changed for the show, but in-universe it was clear what they were supposed to be. Better displays than any of the 'future' ones.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If you ask me if they're change the design to be more like it was in TOS, they should make a blend refit and TOS designs. Take the nacelle pylons, the torp bay and the overall shape of the engineering hull from the refit. The neck (apart from the section hidden under the torp bay), Nav deflector assembly, saucer (including the impulse engines), the actually nacelles and the paint scheme from the TV series version.
Thus creating a design that looks like it could become the refit without a total rebuild (especially if you scale it the same rough size as the refit) while still honoring the orginal.
EDIT:obviously Small tweaks have to be made to better marry the 2 designs into 1 rather then looking like they took peices of 2 ships and glued them together, but I was talking about broad design elements not details.
So... the proposed Phase 2 Enterprise?
close but I'd have it with full on TOS nacelles, like the DSC upgrade had, not those hybrids. There's nothing wrong with the TOS design for the nacelles and those are components I could see easily being something you alter in a "refit", the problem with the TMP "refit" is that it doesn't share anything with pre-refit design making actually a totally new ship with same name and registry rather then the old after a refit.
I'm not really understanding the difference between what you're proposing and what we actually got. Is it just a matter of the proportions and small details?
Also, the DSC version doesn't have full-on TOS nacelles, it has a hybrid between the TOS and NX nacelles, which I very much enjoy.
the most obvious differences would be the impulse housing, a flattened cone in the TOS saucer, boxlike in the DSC version (and also much larger), upper side of the saucer and bridge module (no windows on the TOS version) and last the size, the DSC version is longer the Kelvin version IIRC while my suggestion about only around 305m meters.
Yes those changes are small, but changes don't have to be radical to be important.
Also TOS nacelles do have grill there it just wasn't shown glowing until DSC.
and last the size, the DSC version is longer the Kelvin version IIRC while my suggestion about only around 305m meters.
It's almost a full 100m shorter than the Konni.
Though I don't know why people are so hung up about ship sizes. Very few ships are designed with very specific sizes (exceptions include the Galaxy, Ambassador, and the DSC and KT ships due to their bridge windows). DSC is not the show that suggested a larger Conni, ENT was.
And all the Conni needs is to be in scale to the Excelsior (one of the very few ships it appears onscreen with) and TNG rescaled the Excelsior to as long as the Ambassador which is roughly in proportion to the ENT/DSC Conni. Make the Conni 305m and it would be dwarfed by the Excelsior.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Actually I believe the most believable length for the Kelvin Connie is 366 meters. Based on measurements, the only element that would need to be ignored is the shuttlebay arrival scene. 305 is the length of the Prime Refit. I believe the pre-refit was only about 295 meters. The extra 10 meters would most likely be from swept back pylons and larger saucer.
But the fact remains, Star Trek isn't exactly 100% with ship scaling in any way. USS Defiant chances sizes, the Kelvin Connie changed sizes... hell... Voyager changed sizes. IN the shuttlebay the Delta Flyer's got enough room to rest comfortably, with enough room for a Type 8 or 9 sitting next to it. But launch the Delta... and she BARELY fits through the hanger door. Seems to be a common issue in Trek involving shuttlebays. lol
Actually I believe the most believable length for the Kelvin Connie is 366 meters. Based on measurements, the only element that would need to be ignored is the shuttlebay arrival scene. 305 is the length of the Prime Refit. I believe the pre-refit was only about 295 meters. The extra 10 meters would most likely be from swept back pylons and larger saucer.
But the fact remains, Star Trek isn't exactly 100% with ship scaling in any way. USS Defiant chances sizes, the Kelvin Connie changed sizes... hell... Voyager changed sizes. IN the shuttlebay the Delta Flyer's got enough room to rest comfortably, with enough room for a Type 8 or 9 sitting next to it. But launch the Delta... and she BARELY fits through the hanger door. Seems to be a common issue in Trek involving shuttlebays. lol
Not just shuttlebays, entire space stations. This is the Ent-Nil, approximately 130 meters wide, entering ESD in Star Trek III.
This is the Ent-D docking at an identical spacedock (yay, stock footage). The GCS is over 473 meters wide.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I wouldn't say stock though. There's more detail in the TNG one.
It's there on the TMP one, but the TNG stuff is from the blue-ray so the details stand out better. The shot is also much better composited in TNG (the TOS films were shocking for matt lines and poor lighting continuity).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Actually I believe the most believable length for the Kelvin Connie is 366 meters.
I meant to say 'longer'. The Konni is 366m the ENT(TOS) Conni is 433m and the DSC version is 442m.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Too bad STO goes with the inflated balloon Konnie. We got the playable emergency decoy.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Too bad STO goes with the inflated balloon Konnie. We got the playable emergency decoy.
Amazingly enough it does look like it dwarfs the Conni . If the Conni is 433m then the inflatable decoy is over 700m there.
Also, why waste time complaining about the Mycelial Network as unrealistic when TAS shows hard canon proof you can fit an inflatable version of the Constitution inside of the Shuttlebay of the Constitution that inflated via magic and is several times larger than the ship it came out of.
Also, also, when the DSC Conni comes out in STO I demand this console for it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Also, why waste time complaining about the Mycelial Network as unrealistic when TAS shows hard canon proof you can fit an inflatable version of the Constitution inside of the Shuttlebay of the Constitution that inflated via magic and is several times larger than the ship it came out of.
Also, also, when the DSC Conni comes out in STO I demand this console for it.
Surprisingly there's actually a good chance the mycelial network is rooted in (ha!) actual science: Paul Stamets was even named after one of the guys who worked this out. Of course, this being Star Trek, they mixed real science with a hefty amount of fantasy to get what DSC did with it.
The tardigrade was supposed to be a similar case of using real science for inspiration, but unfortunately the 2014 paper they based it on came from an erroneous (not fraudulent, just mistaken) experiment.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Ya see? This is why we cannot have nice things around here. Because very very few people who are fans of Star Trek can leave well enough alone. And no, I'm not in that group. Although I wish every day I was.
You hypocrite.
"I'm not gonna say I'm a better Trek fan that all of you... but I am a better Trek fan than all of you." Wow. Way to add NOTHING to a conversation except to point at everyone in the discussion and scream "NERD!".
Lemme break it down for ya. Nerds on YouTube who act like they are some sort of official (or is that faecal? So easy to get the two confused these days.) "news" outlet post a video about an Imaginary Spaceship being different from the previous Imaginary Spaceship in some very small insignificant way. Which will have no bearing at all on character development or storyline progress.
No one is talking about story in this thread. I would have posted sooner if they had. You seem ignorant of how "investment in make-believe settings in visual media" works. Let me clue you in.
The premise for every fictional (the grown-up word for "imaginary") setting is "this world/universe/place is just like our world/universe/place except for..." the blank part is filled in by the writer. The end result is a story, involving characters, set in a place with a visual component. Now, when someone experiences the show, they make like what they see based on many factors, including visuals.
So, the audience becomes invested in your story and wants to watch it and maybe even buy t-shirts. When someone comes along and makes changes to the fictional setting (whether it is setting, characters, lore or visuals) it damages audience investment. It proclaims that "this entire show is empty advertising, so buy shirts". Star Trek has had a long history of internal inconsistency. This is a VERY BAD THING and it should stop. In fact, I believe that Star Trek would be significantly more popular if it had MORE verisimilitude, not LESS.
Fictional settings are inherently fragile. Changes to the fiction can destroy suspension of disbelief. Every time you point out "well, they did it before" IS. AN. EXAMPLE. OF. A. BAD. THING. Corporate shills seem convinced that all you need is "brand recognition", but fictional works do not work that way.
The whole thing shrieks of self serving self aggrandizement on the part of Trek Yards. Whose sole raison d'etre is to get as many clicks as they can to make the advertisers happy and get paid by said advertisers through Google. Y'all think if Battlestar Galactica had caught on and Star Trek and Star Wars were gone, these two losers wouldn't have created Colonial Yards?
WTF is wrong with you? Seriously.
These guys like Star Trek: Discovery and the original Star Trek. They like all Trek actually, and are excited to find ties between STDZ and TOS. So... you attack them? You become the uber Nerd when you devour the lesser Nerds?
You now proclaim that fans can only discuss/debate content you personally approve of? The ego is strong with this one.
Posters should not be proclaiming "who is" or "who isn't" a "worthy" Trek fan. Discuss the topic or move along. If it's against the site's TOS then report to a mod. Don't drop into a thread to insult everyone and post nothing else. It's petty and cowardly and makes you look like a jackass.
Ya see? This is why we cannot have nice things around here. Because very very few people who are fans of Star Trek can leave well enough alone. And no, I'm not in that group. Although I wish every day I was.
You hypocrite.
"I'm not gonna say I'm a better Trek fan that all of you... but I am a better Trek fan than all of you." Wow. Way to add NOTHING to a conversation except to point at everyone in the discussion and scream "NERD!".
Lemme break it down for ya. Nerds on YouTube who act like they are some sort of official (or is that faecal? So easy to get the two confused these days.) "news" outlet post a video about an Imaginary Spaceship being different from the previous Imaginary Spaceship in some very small insignificant way. Which will have no bearing at all on character development or storyline progress.
No one is talking about story in this thread. I would have posted sooner if they had. You seem ignorant of how "investment in make-believe settings in visual media" works. Let me clue you in.
The premise for every fictional (the grown-up word for "imaginary") setting is "this world/universe/place is just like our world/universe/place except for..." the blank part is filled in by the writer. The end result is a story, involving characters, set in a place with a visual component. Now, when someone experiences the show, they make like what they see based on many factors, including visuals.
So, the audience becomes invested in your story and wants to watch it and maybe even buy t-shirts. When someone comes along and makes changes to the fictional setting (whether it is setting, characters, lore or visuals) it damages audience investment. It proclaims that "this entire show is empty advertising, so buy shirts". Star Trek has had a long history of internal inconsistency. This is a VERY BAD THING and it should stop. In fact, I believe that Star Trek would be significantly more popular if it had MORE verisimilitude, not LESS.
Fictional settings are inherently fragile. Changes to the fiction can destroy suspension of disbelief. Every time you point out "well, they did it before" IS. AN. EXAMPLE. OF. A. BAD. THING. Corporate shills seem convinced that all you need is "brand recognition", but fictional works do not work that way.
The whole thing shrieks of self serving self aggrandizement on the part of Trek Yards. Whose sole raison d'etre is to get as many clicks as they can to make the advertisers happy and get paid by said advertisers through Google. Y'all think if Battlestar Galactica had caught on and Star Trek and Star Wars were gone, these two losers wouldn't have created Colonial Yards?
WTF is wrong with you? Seriously.
These guys like Star Trek: Discovery and the original Star Trek. They like all Trek actually, and are excited to find ties between STDZ and TOS. So... you attack them? You become the uber Nerd when you devour the lesser Nerds?
You now proclaim that fans can only discuss/debate content you personally approve of? The ego is strong with this one.
Posters should not be proclaiming "who is" or "who isn't" a "worthy" Trek fan. Discuss the topic or move along. If it's against the site's TOS then report to a mod. Don't drop into a thread to insult everyone and post nothing else. It's petty and cowardly and makes you look like a jackass.
Also, why waste time complaining about the Mycelial Network as unrealistic when TAS shows hard canon proof you can fit an inflatable version of the Constitution inside of the Shuttlebay of the Constitution that inflated via magic and is several times larger than the ship it came out of.
Also, also, when the DSC Conni comes out in STO I demand this console for it.
Surprisingly there's actually a good chance the mycelial network is rooted in (ha!) actual science: Paul Stamets was even named after one of the guys who worked this out. Of course, this being Star Trek, they mixed real science with a hefty amount of fantasy to get what DSC did with it.
The tardigrade was supposed to be a similar case of using real science for inspiration, but unfortunately the 2014 paper they based it on came from an erroneous (not fraudulent, just mistaken) experiment.
I'm not bothered in the slightest if science fiction weighs on either the science or the fiction part as long as it's internally consistent. It's a bit of a stretch to go from an Avatar style planetary network to an intergalactic/interdimensional network of mushrooms but as they have some fairly heavy consequences for using it and then stop using it I'm sated.
On the other hand, there's no science at all that can explain the inflatable decoy.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @artan42 said: > On the other hand, there's no science at all that can explain the inflatable decoy.
Uuuh... Swamp gas and light reflected from Venus?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The inflatable Enterprise seems to be the precursor to photonic ships; I believe they serve the same basic function. The science is easy to fudge; today, we have solid compounds that take up a small volume. When mixed, they become a gas (which takes up a much larger volume).
My issue is how the "decoy ship" was used in the story. It's another example of "well, that is some exceptionally convenient and oddly specific technology that just-so-happens to solve the problem". In many episodes of Trek, we have to give the writers some leeway for run-time, but this comes across as a lazy solution.
Comments
I got the Dax mentality as well.
And the enterprise looked GREAT in the Ds9 tribble story.
the Disco engines looked waaaaaaay too big. I'd lop off a 3rd of them myself. And what's this fetish for angular engines in Disco?
As Amil from Robocop said
I'm not really understanding the difference between what you're proposing and what we actually got. Is it just a matter of the proportions and small details?
Also, the DSC version doesn't have full-on TOS nacelles, it has a hybrid between the TOS and NX nacelles, which I very much enjoy.
Except it really doesn't (and never did).
- The High Resolution inlaid computer display terminals in TOS didn't exist IRL in 1966.
Your letting your bias in that uyou know it was a TV filming set constructed of plywood and paint (with plastic backlit orverlays to make info in the the displays appear hi-rez and colorful) color you perception it it.
IMO the above bridge actually looks more advanced then the TMP Bridge (that's supposedly more advanced):
With it's monochome displays and simple vector graphics on (admittedly working real time for camera shots) inlaid physical CRT display units.
In fact I still prefer the smooth skinned greyish TOS 1701 to the bright white aztec patterened swpt nacelle redo of the TMP 1701, bu that's me.
As always YMMV
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
FRIEND!
But I think the Ent-A bridge from V/VI was even better.
Never liked the St2-St6 era looks.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Because the DSC ships are directly before the TMP era ships.
You realise the Conni is an older ship than the DSC ships right? It's nacelles are primitive cylindrical ones like the Kelvin or NX not the futuristic boxy ones that all ships from the Walker to Sovereign have (excluding the Galaxy and anything kitbashed from the Galaxy).
Except it does and still does. You're letting your bias of filling in what you can actually see with what you want to see colour your perception. The TOS bridge doesn't even display useful or readable information. It's interfaces are awful (bloody jellybeans) and it's shaping and construction are primitive. Space is wasted, shapes are basic, user-friendliness is non-existent
Yes, the construction of TMP leaves a lot to be desired but the overall style still looks decades more advanced than TOS and barely needs much change to get to the vastly superior visuals seen from TWoK and onwards (all those TNG guest ships as well).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> Except those "high-res" displays never changed. Not even from episode to episode. Why is there a still-shot of an emission nebula directly above the engineer's station in every show? Or that M-class planet above Communications? Is that in case the comms officer forgets what most habitable planets look like?
What kind of nonsense criticism is this? Of course they never changed for the show, but in-universe it was clear what they were supposed to be. Better displays than any of the 'future' ones.
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Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Yes those changes are small, but changes don't have to be radical to be important.
Also TOS nacelles do have grill there it just wasn't shown glowing until DSC.
It's almost a full 100m shorter than the Konni.
Though I don't know why people are so hung up about ship sizes. Very few ships are designed with very specific sizes (exceptions include the Galaxy, Ambassador, and the DSC and KT ships due to their bridge windows). DSC is not the show that suggested a larger Conni, ENT was.
And all the Conni needs is to be in scale to the Excelsior (one of the very few ships it appears onscreen with) and TNG rescaled the Excelsior to as long as the Ambassador which is roughly in proportion to the ENT/DSC Conni. Make the Conni 305m and it would be dwarfed by the Excelsior.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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But the fact remains, Star Trek isn't exactly 100% with ship scaling in any way. USS Defiant chances sizes, the Kelvin Connie changed sizes... hell... Voyager changed sizes. IN the shuttlebay the Delta Flyer's got enough room to rest comfortably, with enough room for a Type 8 or 9 sitting next to it. But launch the Delta... and she BARELY fits through the hanger door. Seems to be a common issue in Trek involving shuttlebays. lol
Not just shuttlebays, entire space stations. This is the Ent-Nil, approximately 130 meters wide, entering ESD in Star Trek III.
This is the Ent-D docking at an identical spacedock (yay, stock footage). The GCS is over 473 meters wide.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It's there on the TMP one, but the TNG stuff is from the blue-ray so the details stand out better. The shot is also much better composited in TNG (the TOS films were shocking for matt lines and poor lighting continuity).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I meant to say 'longer'. The Konni is 366m the ENT(TOS) Conni is 433m and the DSC version is 442m.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Amazingly enough it does look like it dwarfs the Conni
Also, why waste time complaining about the Mycelial Network as unrealistic when TAS shows hard canon proof you can fit an inflatable version of the Constitution inside of the Shuttlebay of the Constitution that inflated via magic and is several times larger than the ship it came out of.
Also, also, when the DSC Conni comes out in STO I demand this console for it.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Surprisingly there's actually a good chance the mycelial network is rooted in (ha!) actual science: Paul Stamets was even named after one of the guys who worked this out. Of course, this being Star Trek, they mixed real science with a hefty amount of fantasy to get what DSC did with it.
The tardigrade was supposed to be a similar case of using real science for inspiration, but unfortunately the 2014 paper they based it on came from an erroneous (not fraudulent, just mistaken) experiment.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"I'm not gonna say I'm a better Trek fan that all of you... but I am a better Trek fan than all of you." Wow. Way to add NOTHING to a conversation except to point at everyone in the discussion and scream "NERD!".
No one is talking about story in this thread. I would have posted sooner if they had. You seem ignorant of how "investment in make-believe settings in visual media" works. Let me clue you in.
The premise for every fictional (the grown-up word for "imaginary") setting is "this world/universe/place is just like our world/universe/place except for..." the blank part is filled in by the writer. The end result is a story, involving characters, set in a place with a visual component. Now, when someone experiences the show, they make like what they see based on many factors, including visuals.
So, the audience becomes invested in your story and wants to watch it and maybe even buy t-shirts. When someone comes along and makes changes to the fictional setting (whether it is setting, characters, lore or visuals) it damages audience investment. It proclaims that "this entire show is empty advertising, so buy shirts". Star Trek has had a long history of internal inconsistency. This is a VERY BAD THING and it should stop. In fact, I believe that Star Trek would be significantly more popular if it had MORE verisimilitude, not LESS.
Fictional settings are inherently fragile. Changes to the fiction can destroy suspension of disbelief. Every time you point out "well, they did it before" IS. AN. EXAMPLE. OF. A. BAD. THING. Corporate shills seem convinced that all you need is "brand recognition", but fictional works do not work that way.
WTF is wrong with you? Seriously.
These guys like Star Trek: Discovery and the original Star Trek. They like all Trek actually, and are excited to find ties between STDZ and TOS. So... you attack them? You become the uber Nerd when you devour the lesser Nerds?
You now proclaim that fans can only discuss/debate content you personally approve of? The ego is strong with this one.
Wow. So, you insult the entire thread and get away with it? Where are the mods?
Oh.
Posters should not be proclaiming "who is" or "who isn't" a "worthy" Trek fan. Discuss the topic or move along. If it's against the site's TOS then report to a mod. Don't drop into a thread to insult everyone and post nothing else. It's petty and cowardly and makes you look like a jackass.
I'm not bothered in the slightest if science fiction weighs on either the science or the fiction part as long as it's internally consistent. It's a bit of a stretch to go from an Avatar style planetary network to an intergalactic/interdimensional network of mushrooms but as they have some fairly heavy consequences for using it and then stop using it I'm sated.
On the other hand, there's no science at all that can explain the inflatable decoy.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> On the other hand, there's no science at all that can explain the inflatable decoy.
Uuuh... Swamp gas and light reflected from Venus?
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My issue is how the "decoy ship" was used in the story. It's another example of "well, that is some exceptionally convenient and oddly specific technology that just-so-happens to solve the problem". In many episodes of Trek, we have to give the writers some leeway for run-time, but this comes across as a lazy solution.