'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I stopped playing Tribble when they stopped giving rewards for it.
I stopped playing on tribble when a dev posted after Delta Rising, that by the time the content hits tribble its to late to make major changes and that all they could do was tweak the numbers. (I dont have a screenshot of the comment so take it for what it is.)
When fleet mates ask me about tribble I tell them its a preview server, not a test server ever since.
I remember when I playtested LOTRO's 'Rider's of Rohan' Expansion. They used a selected group of Playtesters to first take it out on their Palantir Private Playtest Server. We were sworn to secrecy and went back and forth through it with the Devs and they fixed stuff/changed stuff as needed.
After about a month of that we were allowed to speak about the playtesting, and they put their latest modified build onto their Bullroarer Public Playtest Server. Anyone could test there. That went on for almost six weeks and things were changed based upon feedback.
It was supposed to be released in earlier September but was delayed for further playtest and update until October 15th.
Real playtesting, real and sometimes deep modifications based upon that. Not deploy something new two weeks before you need to finalize the build for an October 3rd release.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
'Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I'm afraid I don't currently have the cycles available to answer all of your individual concerns. But on a general note, I wanted to let you all know that we're still very much in the process of tuning the numbers for the new Fleet Commodities, both in terms of project requirements and activity rewards. We're looking to make a series of changes soon which should appear on Tribble some time next week, if all goes according to plan.
Until we've finalized what those changes will be, that's all the info I can offer for now. Please keep your constructive feedback coming, and keep an eye on Tribble Patch Notes to see if/when any of your concerns get addressed.
Thanks again for helping us test this feature before it goes live with Season 14!
I hope they realize that even if those provisions would be in line with those of the other holdings the average STO Joe will still not bother with them, not to mention play the game more actively over them.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Well, I really, really, REALLY don't feel like doing hours and hours of mini-games each week over the next year. Even if they cut special input requirements by half I couldn't get myself to play them. And from what I can tell, the general mood in our maxed out fleet is about the same. I think we're just gonna skip this one. The items are interesting but no absolute must haves.
Well, I really, really, REALLY don't feel like doing hours and hours of mini-games each week over the next year. Even if they cut special input requirements by half I couldn't get myself to play them. And from what I can tell, the general mood in our maxed out fleet is about the same. I think we're just gonna skip this one. The items are interesting but no absolute must haves.
This has been the problem with everything to do with fleets for a couple years now. The attitude about fleets has changed from must do now! to eh someone else will do it. Because of that fleets no longer accomplish their purpose (making dilithium valuable). It sounds like this new holding will be almost entirely skipped. This is a shame because the idea of a colony was a good one.
How much would they have to reduce the grind to make it palatable? 5x 10x ?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I think this is a good start in encouraging player interaction within the game. However, the nooby goodies in the holding stores are going to need to be good to get people grinding out those special provisions. Based on what I am hearing about in the testing thread, 5 player clearing missions and what not, they're going to be a chore, but one that will encourage players working together if they're successful.
Some people are going to gripe about being in small fleets (I just read about one man fleets the other day, guess they're not doing this holding, sry), not being able to form teams, and the usual resistances. But don't worry about them. Just make the goodies REALLY sweet and people will slowly shut up as they sneak back to grindstone like good little slaves.
I say, why not take this concept a bit further and increase participation in endgame queues? Link each stage of the holding to a faction-specific, advanced or better, STF award? Require x amount of borg neural processors, assessed stratagems, etc., a different one depending on which tier your fleet is working on.
This will be a lot more work than dumping dilithium or grinding out crystalline catastrophy, so sweeten the deal by never requiring dilithium in this particular holding. No dilithium can be it's "thang" in some of your advertising.
As for those rewards ... here's my suggestion. With tier 6 ships now established, and with a whole new career class on the way, why not put a chunk of the tier 5 lockbox/c-store fleet up for grabs. What better way to use ships that are gradually losing their relevance in the game anyway?
You're a smart one. Yet being smart usually gets you ignored or punished.
If the costs are at that level, they're gonna kill the game.
Judging by the looks of this holding's requirements, I think that they wanna wrap STO up and they're out of content ideas or budget. Something is not working really well there. Especially when some Rhinos become the main archvilains (Tzentekhi)
Well, I really, really, REALLY don't feel like doing hours and hours of mini-games each week over the next year. Even if they cut special input requirements by half I couldn't get myself to play them. And from what I can tell, the general mood in our maxed out fleet is about the same. I think we're just gonna skip this one. The items are interesting but no absolute must haves.
This has been the problem with everything to do with fleets for a couple years now. The attitude about fleets has changed from must do now! to eh someone else will do it. Because of that fleets no longer accomplish their purpose (making dilithium valuable). It sounds like this new holding will be almost entirely skipped. This is a shame because the idea of a colony was a good one.
How much would they have to reduce the grind to make it palatable? 5x 10x ?
To some extent but I don't think the grind should be killed off entirely. Palatability in this case is judged according to the fleet status quo, where rewards aren't as pressing, requirements less specific, and progress so generally attained that players can sit back and let someone else do it. Now there's going to be pressure and very direct things players can do to help the fleet progress. A few people can't take care of it all themselves (current fleet model, in my experience), there needs to be a group effort (because the grind is prohibitive otherwise.)
Let's not get rid of that entirely, Fleets need shaking up (ex. mine's been in zombie mode for some time, making full progress but with less and less and less general participation), though avoiding a dead-on-arrival Tzenkethi Battlezone scenario is still very, very, very advisable (as in, there should be some flexibility so a hardcore group isn't required for basic achievement.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Well, I really, really, REALLY don't feel like doing hours and hours of mini-games each week over the next year. Even if they cut special input requirements by half I couldn't get myself to play them. And from what I can tell, the general mood in our maxed out fleet is about the same. I think we're just gonna skip this one. The items are interesting but no absolute must haves.
This has been the problem with everything to do with fleets for a couple years now. The attitude about fleets has changed from must do now! to eh someone else will do it. Because of that fleets no longer accomplish their purpose (making dilithium valuable). It sounds like this new holding will be almost entirely skipped. This is a shame because the idea of a colony was a good one.
How much would they have to reduce the grind to make it palatable? 5x 10x ?
To some extent but I don't think the grind should be killed off entirely. Palatability in this case is judged according to the fleet status quo, where rewards aren't as pressing, requirements less specific, and progress so generally attained that players can sit back and let someone else do it. Now there's going to be pressure and very direct things players can do to help the fleet progress. A few people can't take care of it all themselves (current fleet model, in my experience), there needs to be a group effort (because the grind is prohibitive otherwise.)
Let's not get rid of that entirely, Fleets need shaking up (ex. mine's been in zombie mode for some time, making full progress but with less and less and less general participation), though avoiding a dead-on-arrival Tzenkethi Battlezone scenario is still very, very, very advisable (as in, there should be some flexibility so a hardcore group isn't required for basic achievement.)
Especially agreed with that first sentence. Fleets were obviously meant to be something longer term for a larger group to work on.
I've read about people wondering how single player fleets would have to complete the new holding. Maybe they won't be able to. That's something we'll have to accept, as fleets were never meant to be a single-player thing.
The fact that they have tolerated for so long that players are holding entire fleets as private banking space, doesn't mean of course that they can't change this. To a large extent, I think the complaining comes from unreasonable demands and expectations; namely that everything should be completed quickly, automatically, or indeed through someone else's actions.
It's basically the same principle we see with respect to the nerf-buff cycles. Players can fully expect overperforming stuff to be corrected. The fact that it doesn't happen for a while, is not an excuse and does not make it more reasonable to complain about it when it finally does happen.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
. To a large extent, I think the complaining comes from unreasonable demands and expectations; namely that everything should be completed quickly, automatically, or indeed through someone else's actions.
And that circumstances won't change as a result of new pressures. My fleet for example will have to clean house and start things like *active recruitment* and *playing with fleet members* again if it's going to get the most out of this. If that doesn't happen, then we won't progress. But if it does, we'll get lots of new stuff and the secondary benefits in having a healthy fleet again.
There should be pain up to the point it leads to constructive problem solving, but not to the point were we shot put our hard drives (because constructive solutions aren't realistic to how players can approach the game.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
. To a large extent, I think the complaining comes from unreasonable demands and expectations; namely that everything should be completed quickly, automatically, or indeed through someone else's actions.
And that circumstances won't change as a result of new pressures. My fleet for example will have to clean house and start things like *active recruitment* and *playing with fleet members* again if it's going to get the most out of this. If that doesn't happen, then we won't progress. But if it does, we'll get lots of new stuff and the secondary benefits in having a healthy fleet again.
There should be pain up to the point it leads to constructive problem solving, but not to the point were we shot put our hard drives (because constructive solutions aren't realistic to how players can approach the game.)
Same here. We went from Q Intelligence to United Intelligence, to 7th Order Intelligence because we wanted to see more activity in chat especially so we allied with a large armada group.
Maybe some cleaning up, or even consolidation of fleets won't be such a bad thing. We're also hoping to see new players coming in the game when Discovery launches.
And if all that doesn't work, well. We've basically said 'it will get done when it's done'.
Agreed with that last point too. There should be some pain, but it definitely shouldn't be too much. Which is why I'm surprised that everyone is already declaring it to be too much, a failure, a disaster and who knows what else, before it's even here. Or even finished, as Tribble is still Tribble after all.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
But GUYS, the tribble feedback subforum is there for you to point all this out so the devs can take notes and make this new rollout fun for the playerbase
Translation: Post your comments in the Tribble Feedback forum so that the dev team can ignore all of it and roll out the bug riddled horrible content to the live server as is because cryptic is always right.
They're so damn out of touch at this point it's like they don't even care.
This impossible grind fest is just another example of how little they understand about the player base. Totally clueless.
Your translator obviously seems to be based on a very early version of the Google Translator.
If they want to ignore you, it does absolutely matter frack all where you write it. General Discussion, Ten Forward, Tribble Feedback or toilet paper, it wouldn't matter, they could just let you do whatever and not say anything.
Ever considered that posting your feedback in a dedicated thread is actually about making it easier to find and read for people that actually are working on the game and can't just goof off at work, open all 25 STO subforums and reloading every 5 minutes to look if someone has had some brilliant, insightful and constructive feedback (or at least some strongly expressed hatred of the mechanics, the developers or other people providing feedback, or their parents, teachers or state's education system) left in one of them?
I stopped playing Tribble when they stopped giving rewards for it.
Related tangent: a problem with Tribble feedback is that it's mostly just whales and a tiny portion of the base that utilizes it, so the feedback they get is incredibly stilted. In some cases, it actually makes the game worse, since the people doing the testing have unrealistic priorities.
Because whales really love clicking through minigames a million times for the next 2 years to unlock a bit of new gear, and they all have huge fleets that will run 20 man events back-to-back, unlike the average player.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I understand that this new holdings may be a way for Criptyc to manage and stabilize zen/dil sink and various other stuff. Also i will not say it does not have some nice stuff.
BUT this huge grind and resorces investment in a game that is practically dead (today i waited 30 minutes to find one guy to play some advanced space stf's ISA, CURE, KASE after i called in ALL dps channels, public elite stf and armada). Not gonna mention the competitive ones (with are nice but finding 10 people its a ****** ****).
INSTEAD of fleet holdings they should add ARMADA HOLDINGS. This should be more acceptable. After finishing one fed and one kdf fleet and barley playing any more i dont have the time, and motivation to grind like that again.
Again this new holding should be an ARMADA HOLDING and should come with armada improvements like letting a fleet pick what armada bonus wants and needs.
...INSTEAD of fleet holdings they should add ARMADA HOLDINGS. This should be more acceptable. After finishing one fed and one kdf fleet and barley playing any more i dont have the time, and motivation to grind like that again...
And making this an armada holding helps how? If you can't bring yourself to summon up the time and motivation to grind like that again what makes you think others in the armada can? Would the colony be easier by spreading the load across even a larger playerbase? Sure'nuff, but knowing Cryptic they'd probably increase the resources needed by an order of magnitude since it would be an armada project instead of a fleet project - not easing the grind a bit.
Just better for Cryptic to ease up on the resources needed (particularly the new provisions).
If it is actually intended as a Dilithium Sink (and that seems kinda plausible, that is what all the fleet holdings are), the provision system might make it fail to work as such, if people find making those provisions too tedious and frustrating, the projects will be filled only very slowly, and thus cannot sink much Dilithium compared to Dilithium "production".
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
If it is actually intended as a Dilithium Sink (and that seems kinda plausible, that is what all the fleet holdings are), the provision system might make it fail to work as such, if people find making those provisions too tedious and frustrating, the projects will be filled only very slowly, and thus cannot sink much Dilithium compared to Dilithium "production".
...INSTEAD of fleet holdings they should add ARMADA HOLDINGS. This should be more acceptable. After finishing one fed and one kdf fleet and barley playing any more i dont have the time, and motivation to grind like that again...
And making this an armada holding helps how? If you can't bring yourself to summon up the time and motivation to grind like that again what makes you think others in the armada can? Would the colony be easier by spreading the load across even a larger playerbase? Sure'nuff, but knowing Cryptic they'd probably increase the resources needed by an order of magnitude since it would be an armada project instead of a fleet project - not easing the grind a bit.
Just better for Cryptic to ease up on the resources needed (particularly the new provisions).
I am part of a what was a medium fleet now small due to players quiting. I am in a good high lvl armada and most if not all the fleets there are just like mine; max tier fleets with 2-4 players active at same time. AT best 4-6 playerts active during weekends. Most have jobs and dont have time. None of us want another grind and having those few active members do all the grind its a joke. AND yes maybe cryptic would have increased the resorces but it would be still better as more people could grind. ONLY solution now is for admirals and players that invested milions of dil and other resorces to leave their fleets and come togheter in just one active fleet or grind like crazy again. THIS will make those people even more bored of the game until they stop giving a **** and quit.
But don't take my word for it.
Also imo fleet projects shoud have different ammount of resorces depending of number of players in the fleet. To prevent exploits the number of provisions awarded ( the ones that you need to buy stuff) should be determened by same factor. This will make small flets viable and there are enough metrics for detailed calculations to be made.
Comments
Original STO beta tester.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I stopped playing on tribble when a dev posted after Delta Rising, that by the time the content hits tribble its to late to make major changes and that all they could do was tweak the numbers. (I dont have a screenshot of the comment so take it for what it is.)
When fleet mates ask me about tribble I tell them its a preview server, not a test server ever since.
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
After about a month of that we were allowed to speak about the playtesting, and they put their latest modified build onto their Bullroarer Public Playtest Server. Anyone could test there. That went on for almost six weeks and things were changed based upon feedback.
It was supposed to be released in earlier September but was delayed for further playtest and update until October 15th.
Real playtesting, real and sometimes deep modifications based upon that. Not deploy something new two weeks before you need to finalize the build for an October 3rd release.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Now that was funny. LOL
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I hope they realize that even if those provisions would be in line with those of the other holdings the average STO Joe will still not bother with them, not to mention play the game more actively over them.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
This has been the problem with everything to do with fleets for a couple years now. The attitude about fleets has changed from must do now! to eh someone else will do it. Because of that fleets no longer accomplish their purpose (making dilithium valuable). It sounds like this new holding will be almost entirely skipped. This is a shame because the idea of a colony was a good one.
How much would they have to reduce the grind to make it palatable? 5x 10x ?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You're a smart one. Yet being smart usually gets you ignored or punished.
If the costs are at that level, they're gonna kill the game.
Judging by the looks of this holding's requirements, I think that they wanna wrap STO up and they're out of content ideas or budget. Something is not working really well there. Especially when some Rhinos become the main archvilains (Tzentekhi)
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
To some extent but I don't think the grind should be killed off entirely. Palatability in this case is judged according to the fleet status quo, where rewards aren't as pressing, requirements less specific, and progress so generally attained that players can sit back and let someone else do it. Now there's going to be pressure and very direct things players can do to help the fleet progress. A few people can't take care of it all themselves (current fleet model, in my experience), there needs to be a group effort (because the grind is prohibitive otherwise.)
Let's not get rid of that entirely, Fleets need shaking up (ex. mine's been in zombie mode for some time, making full progress but with less and less and less general participation), though avoiding a dead-on-arrival Tzenkethi Battlezone scenario is still very, very, very advisable (as in, there should be some flexibility so a hardcore group isn't required for basic achievement.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Especially agreed with that first sentence. Fleets were obviously meant to be something longer term for a larger group to work on.
I've read about people wondering how single player fleets would have to complete the new holding. Maybe they won't be able to. That's something we'll have to accept, as fleets were never meant to be a single-player thing.
The fact that they have tolerated for so long that players are holding entire fleets as private banking space, doesn't mean of course that they can't change this. To a large extent, I think the complaining comes from unreasonable demands and expectations; namely that everything should be completed quickly, automatically, or indeed through someone else's actions.
It's basically the same principle we see with respect to the nerf-buff cycles. Players can fully expect overperforming stuff to be corrected. The fact that it doesn't happen for a while, is not an excuse and does not make it more reasonable to complain about it when it finally does happen.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
There should be pain up to the point it leads to constructive problem solving, but not to the point were we shot put our hard drives (because constructive solutions aren't realistic to how players can approach the game.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Same here. We went from Q Intelligence to United Intelligence, to 7th Order Intelligence because we wanted to see more activity in chat especially so we allied with a large armada group.
Maybe some cleaning up, or even consolidation of fleets won't be such a bad thing. We're also hoping to see new players coming in the game when Discovery launches.
And if all that doesn't work, well. We've basically said 'it will get done when it's done'.
Agreed with that last point too. There should be some pain, but it definitely shouldn't be too much. Which is why I'm surprised that everyone is already declaring it to be too much, a failure, a disaster and who knows what else, before it's even here. Or even finished, as Tribble is still Tribble after all.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Your translator obviously seems to be based on a very early version of the Google Translator.
If they want to ignore you, it does absolutely matter frack all where you write it. General Discussion, Ten Forward, Tribble Feedback or toilet paper, it wouldn't matter, they could just let you do whatever and not say anything.
Ever considered that posting your feedback in a dedicated thread is actually about making it easier to find and read for people that actually are working on the game and can't just goof off at work, open all 25 STO subforums and reloading every 5 minutes to look if someone has had some brilliant, insightful and constructive feedback (or at least some strongly expressed hatred of the mechanics, the developers or other people providing feedback, or their parents, teachers or state's education system) left in one of them?
Because whales really love clicking through minigames a million times for the next 2 years to unlock a bit of new gear, and they all have huge fleets that will run 20 man events back-to-back, unlike the average player.
10/10
BUT this huge grind and resorces investment in a game that is practically dead (today i waited 30 minutes to find one guy to play some advanced space stf's ISA, CURE, KASE after i called in ALL dps channels, public elite stf and armada). Not gonna mention the competitive ones (with are nice but finding 10 people its a ****** ****).
INSTEAD of fleet holdings they should add ARMADA HOLDINGS. This should be more acceptable. After finishing one fed and one kdf fleet and barley playing any more i dont have the time, and motivation to grind like that again.
Again this new holding should be an ARMADA HOLDING and should come with armada improvements like letting a fleet pick what armada bonus wants and needs.
And making this an armada holding helps how? If you can't bring yourself to summon up the time and motivation to grind like that again what makes you think others in the armada can? Would the colony be easier by spreading the load across even a larger playerbase? Sure'nuff, but knowing Cryptic they'd probably increase the resources needed by an order of magnitude since it would be an armada project instead of a fleet project - not easing the grind a bit.
Just better for Cryptic to ease up on the resources needed (particularly the new provisions).
So true, so true.
I am part of a what was a medium fleet now small due to players quiting. I am in a good high lvl armada and most if not all the fleets there are just like mine; max tier fleets with 2-4 players active at same time. AT best 4-6 playerts active during weekends. Most have jobs and dont have time. None of us want another grind and having those few active members do all the grind its a joke. AND yes maybe cryptic would have increased the resorces but it would be still better as more people could grind. ONLY solution now is for admirals and players that invested milions of dil and other resorces to leave their fleets and come togheter in just one active fleet or grind like crazy again. THIS will make those people even more bored of the game until they stop giving a **** and quit.
But don't take my word for it.
Also imo fleet projects shoud have different ammount of resorces depending of number of players in the fleet. To prevent exploits the number of provisions awarded ( the ones that you need to buy stuff) should be determened by same factor. This will make small flets viable and there are enough metrics for detailed calculations to be made.