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OFFICIAL FEEDBACK THREAD FOR Dranuur Colony Fleet Holding!

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    entnx01 wrote: »
    Then it sounds like two or three things need to happen to make building this viable:

    1) The Colony Invasion and other mini-games need to reward more of the colony-specific currencies.

    2) The specific currencies need to reward something significant when donated because this isn't just a Fleet Credit burn; these are more like how Fleet Marks were, where you have to do something to get them (beyond the passive granting after upgrades).
    I think that's something really important here - you have to do something, and all you get is an abstract process on your fleet holding. And worse, if you leave the fleet, all the work was for nothing. It doesn't even appear in any player-facing statistics so that someone might at least feel thankful for your contribution.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • sierrafortunesierrafortune Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    With how big the map is this should be more akin to a fleet exclusive mini-adventure zone kind of thing rather than a "go here and play the same 3 minigames you've done for years". The map looks fantastic, but the minigames were already awful, and this format only accentuates how bad they are. As it stands there's nothing that you gain from this holding that justifies the costs or the tedium involved. If the colony invasion were rescaled for 10 players max, and the minigames were replaced with...well literally anything. Heck even the New Romulus Epohh tagging, and the payouts were rebalanced so that it isn't a pointless grindfest it would be something at least a few people would show up for.

    What it's really missing though are things that I can actually do with other fleetmates. This isn't something exclusive to the colony holding, but the openness of the map really drives home how hollow it is to be in an area that's intended to be worked on by a group of players. And like the others it's going to be empty with no interaction because there's barely anything to do together. The colony invasion could be okay, but it's not gonna hold anyone's interest for long, especially in its current state. It really needs smaller scale events/missions/whatever that 2-4 people could cooperate on. As it stands this is just gonna be another map where I maybe run into two other fleetmates but don't really interact with them because we're just there to get a solo-mission, doff, buy something, and so on.

    All in all I think this'll be one where I beam down, admire the map, and beam out. Maybe I'll visit it again in a few years like Andoria, and other dead zones. But I ain't ever gonna drop resources on this because lol why? I could just join a different fleet that's trying to get K-13 done and get far better rewards for my resources.
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    So I'm just now seeing that provisioning for these invasion "keys" takes Fleet Credits.

    ...really?

    We're already not getting Fleet Credits for the huge amounts of colony-specific inputs for which we must play mini-games and fight in invasion simulations, but the provisions for those simulations take fleet credits?

    This holding has been managed all wrong on Cryptic's end.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    Hey folks,

    I'm afraid I don't currently have the cycles available to answer all of your individual concerns. But on a general note, I wanted to let you all know that we're still very much in the process of tuning the numbers for the new Fleet Commodities, both in terms of project requirements and activity rewards. We're looking to make a series of changes soon which should appear on Tribble some time next week, if all goes according to plan.

    Until we've finalized what those changes will be, that's all the info I can offer for now. Please keep your constructive feedback coming, and keep an eye on Tribble Patch Notes to see if/when any of your concerns get addressed.

    Thanks again for helping us test this feature before it goes live with Season 14!
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I just want to know... are we going to be able to support other Fleets in the Armada by donating the Provisions I might acquire....or are those going to be locked to my character or fleet???? Like everything else seems to be?
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I just want to know... are we going to be able to support other Fleets in the Armada by donating the Provisions I might acquire....or are those going to be locked to my character or fleet???? Like everything else seems to be?

    Locking them to your character and fleet wouldn't make much sense. You could simply leave your fleet, join another one, spend your provisions and go back to your former fleet. I think entire armadas working on one colony will be the only way to complete this new fleet holding in a reasonable amount of time.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    entnx01 wrote: »
    So I'm just now seeing that provisioning for these invasion "keys" takes Fleet Credits.

    ...really?

    We're already not getting Fleet Credits for the huge amounts of colony-specific inputs for which we must play mini-games and fight in invasion simulations, but the provisions for those simulations take fleet credits?

    This holding has been managed all wrong on Cryptic's end.

    Agreed, STO is being advertised as free to play title.

    I don’t think that dumping recourses into projects just to be able to play parts of the content sits well with that.

    I appreciate alternatives to the new queue UI but the chosen path is even more complicated and STO has a hard time to get peeps to play PvE as it is.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • dukedom01dukedom01 Member Posts: 462 Arc User
    Now that the coffers kinda work another question comes to mind.

    You cannot use the provisions in your fleets coffer to fill other fleets project in your armada. Design decision or oversight?
    Ceterum censeo Otha supplendum in praemiis.
  • feliseanfelisean Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    felisean wrote: »
    they're offered for playing the invasion simulation on that map and i think that this will be the main source to generate those provisions. maybe something equal for the space map too would be great to have a choice :)

    Which is great, but the problem is that Invasion isn't just a PvE that you can queue up for. The fleet has to run a project to unlock it, so people need to play enough mini games to enable them to do something other then mini games.

    If this requirement was removed and the Invasion Scenario was allowed as a standard PVE Queue, then I would be cool with that. I do also think that provisions should be an available reward from Starbase Fleet Defense, maybe it would make it actually possible to get 20 people in queue for it. :)

    The project doesnt need Provisions to start, you just need (ok for the t5 project dont know the other ones) 200k xp, 3850 (so base 4k i guess) dilithium and 50k fleet credits. in exchange, you will get 15 simulation keys. not that much of an investment at all

    and for the fleet credits, come on just 50k or translated into 1k fleet marks. and you will generate a lot of fleet credits from the projects itself since you dont need to spend them for something else. you just have to take a decision if you wanna play the minigame or spend some of the fleet credits to play the simulation :)
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    My personal preference would be to remove the colony provisions entirely and copy the project reqs from the Starbase, IE lots of marks, lots of dil, lots of doffs. It *should* be expensive. But that stuff is what we know.

    But since that's not in the cards, here are my ideas for the provisions:

    1. Reduce colony project requirements by 50%. Cut them in half.
    2. Add provisions to the rewards for existing fleet space queues: Fleet Alert, Starbase Fleet Defense.
    3. Double provision output from the minigames to 500/hour.
    4. Add a CXP-to-provision turn-in that works like the Starbase Commendation Report.
    5. Add a provision Event to Admiralty assignments.

    If the goal is to get people playing, and playing together, spread it around. More stuff.
  • johnbr216johnbr216 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    I really like the idea of the fleet coffer to store materials, wish it had been implemented for the whole fleet, and not just the new colony. Also, I'd like to propose adding DOFFs to the Coffer as well, ie TAC, ENG, SCI, and CIV.
    Cryptic Lifetime account since Thursday, January 21, 2010
    2311 days and counting.
  • ffttfftt Member Posts: 715 Arc User
    5. Add a provision Event to Admiralty assignments.
    Some DOff assignments that award provisions would be nice too. With guaranteed provisions on a normal success unlike just a critical from the mine or lab assignments. And considering the amount of provisions needed compared to the mine or lab the rewards could be more substantial than a half dozen provisions.
    4. Add a CXP-to-provision turn-in that works like the Starbase Commendation Report.
    Hmmm. I'd actually have to start queuing CC for fleet marks again. I've been coasting of FMs for quite a while now (My solo fleet is max level and I've given up on the fleeties from the other fleet I'm in).
  • chrisofborgchrisofborg Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    New Equipment Vendors on the Colony:
    • Space Equipment vendor text says "Space Equipement Vendor"
    • The Energetic Protomatter Matrix Infuser [Antiproton] [Kinetic] consoles only boost damage by 10.6%, whereas all the others boost it by 31.9%
    • The Elite Fleet Shields offer Tac/Eng/SciCD, but their hovertexts/descriptions say "+0" to readiness
    • All of the Elite Engines have "0% Shield Resistance" in their description (possibly for the [Shard] mod?)
    • Ground Kit Modules are Bind on Equip (and trade-able) instead of Bind on Pickup
    • Plasma Blastwave Turret explodes upon expiring and damages friendlies

    Fleet Holding:
    • The Coffer tab allows for provisions in the Overflow Bag to be submitted without removing the provisions from the Overflow Bag. I can re-contribute the same 200 provisions indefinitely and still get credit for them.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    szim wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I just want to know... are we going to be able to support other Fleets in the Armada by donating the Provisions I might acquire....or are those going to be locked to my character or fleet???? Like everything else seems to be?

    Locking them to your character and fleet wouldn't make much sense. You could simply leave your fleet, join another one, spend your provisions and go back to your former fleet. I think entire armadas working on one colony will be the only way to complete this new fleet holding in a reasonable amount of time.

    Have you tried to switch fleet's lately? It is a painful procedure of coordination.

    Well, from what I have read....you can not complete the "invasion" missions by teaming with other fleets in the armada...it only rewards the one fleet that started the assignment. Which effectively locks gaining Provisions to a fleet.

    What the heck is a "Coffer" tab???? Is that bank for Fleet use only? How about the rest of us in the Armada?

    As far as Colony goes... it should be FACTION WIDE...not Armada wide.

    My favorite minigame is the Radiation one.... I don't mind run that on and off all day as I find the time between chores and errands.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • jcarson1701jcarson1701 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    With how big the map is this should be more akin to a fleet exclusive mini-adventure zone kind of thing rather than a "go here and play the same 3 minigames you've done for years". The map looks fantastic, but the minigames were already awful, and this format only accentuates how bad they are. As it stands there's nothing that you gain from this holding that justifies the costs or the tedium involved. If the colony invasion were rescaled for 10 players max, and the minigames were replaced with...well literally anything. Heck even the New Romulus Epohh tagging, and the payouts were rebalanced so that it isn't a pointless grindfest it would be something at least a few people would show up for.

    What it's really missing though are things that I can actually do with other fleetmates. This isn't something exclusive to the colony holding, but the openness of the map really drives home how hollow it is to be in an area that's intended to be worked on by a group of players. And like the others it's going to be empty with no interaction because there's barely anything to do together. The colony invasion could be okay, but it's not gonna hold anyone's interest for long, especially in its current state. It really needs smaller scale events/missions/whatever that 2-4 people could cooperate on. As it stands this is just gonna be another map where I maybe run into two other fleetmates but don't really interact with them because we're just there to get a solo-mission, doff, buy something, and so on.

    All in all I think this'll be one where I beam down, admire the map, and beam out. Maybe I'll visit it again in a few years like Andoria, and other dead zones. But I ain't ever gonna drop resources on this because lol why? I could just join a different fleet that's trying to get K-13 done and get far better rewards for my resources.


    Overall, I am really excited about the new holding, however I have a few thoughts on how to make it more mid-size fleet friendly than it currently appears to be. The art department did a phenomenal job on the map, but the environment feels too big for what all there is to do in it.
    • I agree entirely with the sentiment that the colony invasion needs re-scaled down to 10 players from 20, it is difficult for most fleets to get that many people together for one event.
    • Colony specific resources seem kind of wonky to me, there's either too low of a payout for the mini-games or too high of a requirement for the projects for it to be viable for smaller or average sized fleets.
    • Travel across the map takes a long time for what seems to be a couple of mini-games on the outer edges of the map, and without a site to site transporter, that adds a feeling of tediousness to the go out and play the mini-game mission to get resources. If more of the map had more than just mini-game prompts, it would feel a little less underutilized than it currently seems. It is a gorgeous map, but it feels a little too spread out for the amount of tasks we can do on the map.
  • daciaeternadaciaeterna Member Posts: 219 Arc User
    I understand that this new holdings may be a way for Criptyc to manage and stabilize zen/dil sink and various other stuff. Also i will not say it does not have some nice stuff.

    BUT this huge grind and resorces investment in a game that is practically dead (today i waited 30 minutes to find one guy to play some advanced space stf's ISA, CURE, KASE after i called in ALL dps channels, public elite stf and armada). Not gonna mention the competitive ones (with are nice but finding 10 people its a ****** ****).

    INSTEAD of fleet holdings they should add ARMADA HOLDINGS. This should be more acceptable. After finishing one fed and one kdf fleet and barley playing any more i dont have the time, and motivation to grind like that again.

    Again this new holding should be an ARMADA HOLDING and should come with armada improvements like letting a fleet pick what armada bonus wants and needs.

    "copy paste from another tread"
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    If it is actually intended as a Dilithium Sink (and that seems kinda plausible, that is what all the fleet holdings are - of course,there are other goals for them, too), the provision system might make it fail to work as such, if people find making those provisions too tedious and frustrating, the projects will be filled only very slowly, and thus cannot overall sink much Dilithium compared to Dilithium "production".

    To be honest, i never quite good the point of those Holding Provisions. They seem to exist purely to destroy fleet credits. But the project the are used on generates fleet credits as well?

    It's very unattractive to fill up the provisions. You're destroying your currency, and you get basically nothing for it. If you think a billion Dilithium, at least you get also a Billion Fleet Credit, and the contribution page lists your contribution as well. But Provisions just disappear - no one even knows that you contributed anything to your fleet.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    Are the Coffers working for anyone else? I can dump into the coffers, but even with all permissions on I can't use coffer donations for the projects.
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    I
    To be honest, i never quite good the point of those Holding Provisions. They seem to exist purely to destroy fleet credits. But the project the are used on generates fleet credits as well?

    The colony provisions can't be bought with fleet credits like all the other holding provisions. They're purely a time sink, you must get them from the grind. So it's appropriate that they reward credits (though 1:1 isn't good). At the current requirement, they seem to exist to break the will of any group that can't muster dozens of very active members online at all times.
  • melange#3807 melange Member Posts: 28 Cryptic Developer
    where2r1 wrote: »
    szim wrote: »
    Well, from what I have read....you can not complete the "invasion" missions by teaming with other fleets in the armada...it only rewards the one fleet that started the assignment. Which effectively locks gaining Provisions to a fleet.

    This is false, and if you are seeing it, it's a bug. Our tests have shown players from outside your fleet being able to participate and earn rewards. They can then use the rewards for their own fleets. Additionally, if the permissions for the fleet have been set, you are more than welcome to use your provisions on other fleets (not just your own).
  • primar13primar13 Member Posts: 1,896 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2017
    Since this seems to promote a lot of unity between fleets and visiting of other fleets maps for Queues and Such.

    It'd be really nice if we can purchase things from the stores on other fleets maps based on what they have unlocked.

    For years, if you had provisions in your fleet, and you visited a higher tier map, you could buy things from their unlocked stores out of your own provisions. This applied to pretty much all purchaseables except ships. With the addition of the Krenim Base Cryptic Changed the way the stores were setup and they now check what your fleet has unlocked, and ignores the tier of the map you are on. This is frustrating, especially when the Armada system seemed to be designed to help members of smaller lower tier fleets by putting them in contact with larger higher tier fleets.

    It now forces people who are part of Armada and need access to the higher tier items, to leave, and rejoin other fleets in order to gain access to things. This is problematic and time consuming especially to larger Organizations that have multiple Fleets for their groups.

    It seems to me that a lot of the intent of this holding is to get people to visit maps as a group and help each other out. It would kind of be nice if we could get somewhat of a reward for doing so, outside of the marks and provisions.
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    So, some considerate chap put imagery of the new infantry weapons in the wild. Overall, the models are decent; I just have a pair of minor requests. First, consider the rifle model.

    2Q0MfQgl.png


    It should lose the foregrip; anyone with experience in this sort of thing is welcome to put in their .02cr on whether it's too far forward in positioning... but the current animations simply don't make use of it.

    Second, (with two obvious exceptions), pulsewave weapons have stocks for a reason. Kindly change their default firing position (without aim or shooter mode) so they are congruent with all other longarms.

    As for what most of the feedback so far seems focused on, I am curious as to whether or not the people who devised the provisioning requirements are actually aware of the state/size of the player base.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    felisean wrote: »
    they're offered for playing the invasion simulation on that map and i think that this will be the main source to generate those provisions. maybe something equal for the space map too would be great to have a choice :)

    Which is great, but the problem is that Invasion isn't just a PvE that you can queue up for. The fleet has to run a project to unlock it, so people need to play enough mini games to enable them to do something other then mini games.

    If this requirement was removed and the Invasion Scenario was allowed as a standard PVE Queue, then I would be cool with that. I do also think that provisions should be an available reward from Starbase Fleet Defense, maybe it would make it actually possible to get 20 people in queue for it. :)


    Yeah, just heard about those minigames. Not liking them at all, really.

    P.S. And kudos for your idea to revitalize the Starbase Fleet Defense queue!
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,982 Arc User
    entnx01 wrote: »
    Are the Coffers working for anyone else? I can dump into the coffers, but even with all permissions on I can't use coffer donations for the projects.

    In the fleet UI under the permissions tab attached to the ranks there are two new boxes to check off a) enable donations to coffer and b) able to use fleet coffer for projects. Did you see those? Was wondering myself initially until discovering these.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    What the heck is a "Coffer" tab???? Is that bank for Fleet use only? How about the rest of us in the Armada?

    Here's a photo of a Coffer tab

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    protoneous wrote: »
    Here's a photo of a Coffer tab

    Is that a tab in the Fleet level? Or Armada level?
    Thanks for the picture Proton :)

    ++++++++++++++++

    15 mins and counting....until ST:D over here.
    I hate that I live in the last time zone that is gonna be able to see this show on the continent.
    Taking too long.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • entnx01entnx01 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    entnx01 wrote: »
    Are the Coffers working for anyone else? I can dump into the coffers, but even with all permissions on I can't use coffer donations for the projects.

    In the fleet UI under the permissions tab attached to the ranks there are two new boxes to check off a) enable donations to coffer and b) able to use fleet coffer for projects. Did you see those? Was wondering myself initially until discovering these.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    What the heck is a "Coffer" tab???? Is that bank for Fleet use only? How about the rest of us in the Armada?

    Here's a photo of a Coffer tab

    I found the permissions in the fleet management tools. I'm fleet leader on Tribble, so all my options are on by default.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,982 Arc User
    entnx01 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    entnx01 wrote: »
    Are the Coffers working for anyone else? I can dump into the coffers, but even with all permissions on I can't use coffer donations for the projects.

    In the fleet UI under the permissions tab attached to the ranks there are two new boxes to check off a) enable donations to coffer and b) able to use fleet coffer for projects. Did you see those? Was wondering myself initially until discovering these.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    What the heck is a "Coffer" tab???? Is that bank for Fleet use only? How about the rest of us in the Armada?

    Here's a photo of a Coffer tab

    I found the permissions in the fleet management tools. I'm fleet leader on Tribble, so all my options are on by default.

    Ugh. Can confirm at same rank on Tribble you're right the coffer function doesn't seem to be working. I enabled it for a friend the day it was added then promptly logged off due to impending carpel tunnel syndrome from all the clicking. And to think he filled the coffers before finding out it doesn't work. Poor fella...
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Is that a tab in the Fleet level? Or Armada level?

    Fleet level.
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