Its time for the Gorn Starship!

irishhawkdrake · April 2023

The Gorn have a in-canon raider ship from the remastered Arena and Prodigy. I use a gorn crew and would love something new for Team Iguana https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Gorn_trading_vessel

irishhawkdrake · April 2023

solidshark214 · April 2023

I believe that ship is in fact already in-game; I think it's encountered in one of the TOS-origin missions. Why it's not playable, I don't know.

bltrrn · April 2023

I'm satisfied with the Gorn Multi-mission ships, but I would like to see more options for the *other* Klingon Empire playable species. Perhaps adding Nausicaan ears would be a good steppingstone for a few more ships?

legendarylycan · April 2023

Considering that ship doesn't come even remotely close to STO's established Gorn design aesthetic for starships, I seriously doubt Cryptic will ever consider adding it...especially given trying to get ANY KDF ships out of them in a reasonable timeframe is worse than trying to draw blood from a stone.

paradox · April 2023

Personally I wish some of the KDF ships had Non-Klingon Bridges, like the Marauder Class Flight Deck Carrier doesn't have an Orion themed Bridge to match, where are the bridges that have the signature Orion S symbol you know the one with the O in the middle of the S, there isn't even a Gorn themed bridge, which I expected to have yellow lights instead of red ones.

theraven2378 · April 2023

The Gorn ships from SNW would be nice

rattler2 · April 2023

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

Considering that ship doesn't come even remotely close to STO's established Gorn design aesthetic for starships...

And that matters... how? The ship is canon. We're also talking about a design that was seen in the 2260s vs what is flying around in at least 2409. That is basically an extreme version of "The TOS Connie doesn't match STO's established Federation design asthetics." Of course it doesn't. Tech has advanced and with it designs change. *shrug*

phoenixc · April 2023

It would be great to get playable versions of both of the alien TOS-R ships (the Gorn ship and the Orion Intruder) that are already in the game as NPC ships in the AoY episodes. It is not unusual in the real world for ships and aircraft of a particular nation to have more than one aesthetic, why would it be a problem in Star Trek to have a few oddball designs?

avoozuul · April 2023

A shame the Gorn equivalent of the Vesta didn't get a legendary version.

theraven2378 · April 2023

Not tried them

szerontzur · April 2023

I like the Gorn(easily one of my favorite characters is one), but I can't really think of a compelling reason that would make me want to buy/fly one of their ships again.

A Gorn raider along the lines of the above canon ship.. doesn't really fit the role STO has built them towards in STO, so it'd be an exception. Conversely, the SNW stuff will be restricted to lockbox and become a novelty that most people would forget exists in a couple months.

I hope I'm wrong and there are people who are chomping at the bit to have and actively fly those ships. Sadly, I'm not one of them and I could probably count the number of people I've seen using a(ny) Gorn ship in the past year on one hand.

rattler2 · April 2023

szerontzur wrote: »

A Gorn raider along the lines of the above canon ship.. doesn't really fit the role STO has built them towards in STO, so it'd be an exception

Their "role" means nothing. No one species has an entire fleet consisting of one type of ship. So it would make no sense to limit the Gorn to science ships only because "that's their role in STO". It just happens to be what STO has made available for players.

legendarylycan · April 2023

Which honestly, that role doesn't even make sense when compared to their appearances in other games, because their ships (even the smol ones) tended to be slow lumbering clunkers compared with other factions, with not much science to speak of.

I mean...I know that it was done because the KDF needed a 'science' collection of ships and between the Klingons, Orions and Nausicaans...not much science there either, so it got dumped on the Gorn just because someone wanted to make a 'Clever Girl' reference and a single throwaway line from Arena painted them as being just slightly more advanced than Starfleet, but still.

szerontzur · April 2023

As I think on it some more, a Gorn "Scout Ship" using the TOS model might be a worthwhile addition to the KDF roster.

That said, I still don't think I'd go for it, personally, unless it had a meaningful trait like something to bring Tyken's Rift closer to parity with Gravety Well or if it gave access to unique/upgradeable equipment like their signature missile arrays.

paradox · April 2023

szerontzur wrote: »

I like the Gorn(easily one of my favorite characters is one), but I can't really think of a compelling reason that would make me want to buy/fly one of their ships again.

A Gorn raider along the lines of the above canon ship.. doesn't really fit the role STO has built them towards in STO, so it'd be an exception. Conversely, the SNW stuff will be restricted to lockbox and become a novelty that most people would forget exists in a couple months.

I hope I'm wrong and there are people who are chomping at the bit to have and actively fly those ships. Sadly, I'm not one of them and I could probably count the number of people I've seen using a(ny) Gorn ship in the past year on one hand.

I've flown one on my Dad's account, I made him characters, leveled them up and he doesn't play STO, I figured we could've played STO together,

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

Which honestly, that role doesn't even make sense when compared to their appearances in other games, because their ships (even the smol ones) tended to be slow lumbering clunkers compared with other factions, with not much science to speak of.

I mean...I know that it was done because the KDF needed a 'science' collection of ships and between the Klingons, Orions and Nausicaans...not much science there either, so it got dumped on the Gorn just because someone wanted to make a 'Clever Girl' reference and a single throwaway line from Arena painted them as being just slightly more advanced than Starfleet, but still.

I always viewed the Orions as the Science group of the KDF, while the Gorn we're more of the Engineers of the KDF, that Tellarite guy Skavrin aka the guy I got rid of immediately, pretty tells you that Gorn Ships are built to be durable, and destroying their ships should be a no small feat.

evilmark444 · April 2023

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

Considering that ship doesn't come even remotely close to STO's established Gorn design aesthetic for starships, I seriously doubt Cryptic will ever consider adding it.

The model is already in the game, TOS Gorn NPCs use it: https://stowiki.net/wiki/Ddraig_Cruiser

paradox · April 2023

evilmark444 wrote: »

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

Considering that ship doesn't come even remotely close to STO's established Gorn design aesthetic for starships, I seriously doubt Cryptic will ever consider adding it.

The model is already in the game, TOS Gorn NPCs use it: https://stowiki.net/wiki/Ddraig_Cruiser

Yep, this right here, in the Shadow of Cestus mission.

phoenixc · April 2023

The niche roles the Gorn and the Orions have in the KDF is easy enough to explain away as J'mpok demanding that their new vassals send support ships (science ships in the case of the Gorn and fast attack carriers in the case of Orions) to fill roles that the KDF was probably short of at the time. The ship types the Klingons wouldn't be interested in would not simply disappear though and there would probably be a lot of them left in service with the vassal states themselves.

The TOS-R Gorn ship was some sort of fast armed transport (and possibly heavy scout) that was unable to shake a Federation armored fast battlecruiser off its tail, which does not sound like something the KDF would see much need for since they have a lot of ships that could easily fill the role. If it was put in the game, it could have a trait or console that enhances boarding parties or beams boarding parties in for a snap raid of enemy ships or something similar that takes advantage of Gorn strength in ground combat for use against ships.

The science part probably comes from the original idea of the Gorn being somewhat similar to the Federation in a lot of ways despite the big scary lizard look. The conflict in the episode Arena was a case of misunderstanding and bad timing, from the Gorn point of view they were defending one of their colony worlds from aliens trying to poach it from them.

The Orions at the time of TOS were in a dark age, their original civilization fell a long time ago and became the kind of falling tech level Mad Max sort of situation of very little in the way of conventional government left and bandit kings and pirates holding their own little patches of territory and often fighting or scheming to take more.

A convention of that kind of situation in sci-fi is that artifacts of the original very high tech are usually scattered around waiting to be found and (mis)used by ruthless villains. A fractured society like that should have exactly the kind of wild hodgepodge of designs you see between TOS-R, TAS and ENT instead of everything being based on Harad Saar's barge the way the currently playable Orion ships are.

The Orion Intruder (or at least its drive system) from TOS-R was probably one of those artifacts, probably some sort of heavily armed scout (or conversely a pod hauler cargo ship) with advanced engines of a very alien (from the current interstellar powers point of view) design that lent themselves well to pushing way beyond normal limits. It may have even been something rare but innocuous in Orion space until the syndicate pulled that stunt on the way to the Corridon conference.

It would make a good pilot ship with some sort of emergency power system that could trade hit points for a big surge of power, or some sort of building power reserve (sort of the same idea as the new torpedo type in the game) that damages the ship it is mounted in if it gets too low or is used too often or something along those lines.

In-universe, something like that would probably be too big of a temptation for misuse by Klingons in battle frenzy and the KDF losses would probably not be worth the gains such a system could provide to cooler-headed crews so it is not surprising the KDF would reject them (or not bother to try and recreate them or whatever).

It is also possible that the Intruder's weapon power system was finicky and only worked well with Orion beam phasers instead of the disruptor cannons that the Klingons seem to prefer (and yes, most of the time the Orions used phasers in the shows according to dialog, not disrupters).

theraven2378 · April 2023

phoenixc#0738 wrote: »

The niche roles the Gorn and the Orions have in the KDF is easy enough to explain away as J'mpok demanding that their new vassals send support ships (science ships in the case of the Gorn and fast attack carriers in the case of Orions) to fill roles that the KDF was probably short of at the time. The ship types the Klingons wouldn't be interested in would not simply disappear though and there would probably be a lot of them left in service with the vassal states themselves.

The TOS-R Gorn ship was some sort of fast armed transport (and possibly heavy scout) that was unable to shake a Federation armored fast battlecruiser off its tail, which does not sound like something the KDF would see much need for since they have a lot of ships that could easily fill the role. If it was put in the game, it could have a trait or console that enhances boarding parties or beams boarding parties in for a snap raid of enemy ships or something similar that takes advantage of Gorn strength in ground combat for use against ships.

The science part probably comes from the original idea of the Gorn being somewhat similar to the Federation in a lot of ways despite the big scary lizard look. The conflict in the episode Arena was a case of misunderstanding and bad timing, from the Gorn point of view they were defending one of their colony worlds from aliens trying to poach it from them.

The Orions at the time of TOS were in a dark age, their original civilization fell a long time ago and became the kind of falling tech level Mad Max sort of situation of very little in the way of conventional government left and bandit kings and pirates holding their own little patches of territory and often fighting or scheming to take more.

A convention of that kind of situation in sci-fi is that artifacts of the original very high tech are usually scattered around waiting to be found and (mis)used by ruthless villains. A fractured society like that should have exactly the kind of wild hodgepodge of designs you see between TOS-R, TAS and ENT instead of everything being based on Harad Saar's barge the way the currently playable Orion ships are.

The Orion Intruder (or at least its drive system) from TOS-R was probably one of those artifacts, probably some sort of heavily armed scout (or conversely a pod hauler cargo ship) with advanced engines of a very alien (from the current interstellar powers point of view) design that lent themselves well to pushing way beyond normal limits. It may have even been something rare but innocuous in Orion space until the syndicate pulled that stunt on the way to the Corridon conference.

It would make a good pilot ship with some sort of emergency power system that could trade hit points for a big surge of power, or some sort of building power reserve (sort of the same idea as the new torpedo type in the game) that damages the ship it is mounted in if it gets too low or is used too often or something along those lines.

In-universe, something like that would probably be too big of a temptation for misuse by Klingons in battle frenzy and the KDF losses would probably not be worth the gains such a system could provide to cooler-headed crews so it is not surprising the KDF would reject them (or not bother to try and recreate them or whatever).

It is also possible that the Intruder's weapon power system was finicky and only worked well with Orion beam phasers instead of the disruptor cannons that the Klingons seem to prefer (and yes, most of the time the Orions used phasers in the shows according to dialog, not disrupters).

We've also got the Gorn ships of the late 2250s and early 2260s from SNW, the Gorn Hunter could be a good little Gorn raider while the Gorn Destroyer could fit in quite nicely as well to flesh out the Gorn ships

irishhawkdrake · May 2023

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

Considering that ship doesn't come even remotely close to STO's established Gorn design aesthetic for starships, I seriously doubt Cryptic will ever consider adding it...especially given trying to get ANY KDF ships out of them in a reasonable timeframe is worse than trying to draw blood from a stone.

Fast forward to now. LOL!

Press release for May 9th mentions the Gorn Hunter Pilot Raider!

rattler2 · May 2023

Your picture has failed.

legendarylycan · May 2023

And so has his point, since they are obviously releasing the SNW Gorn ship, NOT the TOS one.

rattler2 · May 2023

Well... it IS a Gorn ship at least?

jonsills · May 2023

The TOS Gorn ship was a blurred, barely visible thing - a lot like the failed picture above. You won't get it in-game, nor would you want it if you could.

It's a similar situation to the Orion raider in "Journey to Babel", which before remastering was just a diamond-shaped light.

phoenixc · May 2023

jonsills wrote: »

The TOS Gorn ship was a blurred, barely visible thing - a lot like the failed picture above. You won't get it in-game, nor would you want it if you could.

It's a similar situation to the Orion raider in "Journey to Babel", which before remastering was just a diamond-shaped light.

True, if you want to get technical about it they are both TOS-R ships, not TOS itself.

TOS-R did do a fairly good job of interpreting the blur in the case of the Gorn ship, though it comes out to a somewhat crazy looking design. The "diamond shaped light" representing the Orion Intruder was the sensor reading of the warp field because they could not resolve an optical picture of the thing going that fast and the high warp field density made it hard to see past it with sensors, the same reason photon torpedoes often had that same sort of diamond look.

On the other hand, they did botch a few of the others, like if you take a very good look at the blurred Klingon scout in Errand of Mercy it could not possibly be a D7 (the silhouette looks more like one of the STO raptors banking slightly) yet that is what the TOS-R people put in its place.

An even bigger botch was taking the ping-pong balls and hemispherical light shield (used to hide the light itself from the camera) prop TOS used to represent the Fesarius (which was explicitly stated in the description in the script to be spherical cluster of various smaller sized spheres "like an invisible fishbowl filled with shifting, pulsing marbles") and instead of actually trying to do the scripted look just made a digital model of the old low-budget prop.

mirrorchaos · May 2023

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

Considering that ship doesn't come even remotely close to STO's established Gorn design aesthetic for starships, I seriously doubt Cryptic will ever consider adding it...especially given trying to get ANY KDF ships out of them in a reasonable timeframe is worse than trying to draw blood from a stone.

The same was said of the Connie, Miranda, Nova and other starships people scoffed at and yet they still made it into the game. you got ships from the past and the future in this game. it matters not one bit if the aesthetics match up, it's almost certain to be in the game if CBS give the nod.

phoenixc · May 2023

The crazy honking duck Romulan flagship from SNW made it into the game and it didn't have anything like normal Romulan aesthetics, there is no reason the Gorn could not have a weird one-off design too, especially since it is already in the game as an NPC ship.

smokebailey · May 2023

phoenixc#0738 wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

The TOS Gorn ship was a blurred, barely visible thing - a lot like the failed picture above. You won't get it in-game, nor would you want it if you could.

It's a similar situation to the Orion raider in "Journey to Babel", which before remastering was just a diamond-shaped light.

True, if you want to get technical about it they are both TOS-R ships, not TOS itself.

TOS-R did do a fairly good job of interpreting the blur in the case of the Gorn ship, though it comes out to a somewhat crazy looking design. The "diamond shaped light" representing the Orion Intruder was the sensor reading of the warp field because they could not resolve an optical picture of the thing going that fast and the high warp field density made it hard to see past it with sensors, the same reason photon torpedoes often had that same sort of diamond look.

On the other hand, they did botch a few of the others, like if you take a very good look at the blurred Klingon scout in Errand of Mercy it could not possibly be a D7 (the silhouette looks more like one of the STO raptors banking slightly) yet that is what the TOS-R people put in its place.

An even bigger botch was taking the ping-pong balls and hemispherical light shield (used to hide the light itself from the camera) prop TOS used to represent the Fesarius (which was explicitly stated in the description in the script to be spherical cluster of various smaller sized spheres "like an invisible fishbowl filled with shifting, pulsing marbles") and instead of actually trying to do the scripted look just made a digital model of the old low-budget prop.

Or this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqpVB72lZa8&pp=ygUVZWFybGllc3Qga2xpbmdvbiBzaGlw

paradox · May 2023

I know the Devs probably wouldn't do this, but I wish we had Gorn Bridge to go with it or at least on the new raider.

rattler2 · May 2023

paradox#7391 wrote: »

I know the Devs probably wouldn't do this, but I wish we had Gorn Bridge to go with it or at least on the new raider.

Well... the problem is in this case we don't know what the interior of a Gorn ship looks like.

Its time for the Gorn Starship!

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