A 10-year gap isn't much of a gap - design philosophy doesn't change THAT much in a decade unless something really catastrophic happens. Like what happened to Vulcan in the Kelvin Timeline - that event directly led to the Vengeance, a very different design from anything Starfleet had been fielding thus far.
yeah.. no. look at the US Navy. The Spruance destroyer, the Oliver Hazard Perry, the ticonderoga and the Arleigh Burke and Zumalt classes are all roughly a decade apart and each are a radically different design philosophy
even withing Starfleet, there are different design philosophies from the two nacelle cigar and saucer, to the saucer two nacelle, to the quad engines on Prometheus.
Rewatched ep. 5 and looking at the Intrepid.....what on earth were they thinking. The engineering section design is horrific. Looks like the bottom end of a Driver club attached to the neck. They'd have been better off just cutting off with scissors....neutering it
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
We've seen 3 changes in design philosophy in 3 seasons of Picard. The Inquiry only fleet (1st Season), STO designs and designs inspired by STO in Season 2, then a 100 year reversion to TMP in Season 3. The rumour mill is that the reversion is to remove reliance on Borg inspired tech because of S2, but that would be just lazy writing if it was so, because it doesn't make sense to revert that far back...TNG Era designs would have been just fine.
IMO the design of the Connie III does not indicate a full fleet wide revision. The nacelles are the same design as seen on the Sagan class. The only thing that is really a throwback is the overall design style is more in line with older ships with the more traditional saucer, secondary hull, nacelle configuration. And there are still quite a few STO designs flying around too. Hell they canonized the Pathfinder class.
Rewatched ep. 5 and looking at the Intrepid.....what on earth were they thinking. The engineering section design is horrific. Looks like the bottom end of a Driver club attached to the neck. They'd have been better off just cutting off with scissors....neutering it
From what little I saw of the Intrepid via YouTube... the design actually reminds me of another design.
Tha Akyazi class, as seen in some TMP era games. Sometimes also referred to as the Akula class (but IMO that conflicts with another starship that also claims that class name)
The Akyazi is sometimes depicted as having a bit hanging underneath, kinda like the Intrepid.
And considering the Connie III class Titan has more in common with the Shangri-La class than the actual Constitution... its entirely possible that this new Intrepid was indeed inspired by the Akyazi class.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
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"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
So it looks like in-universe, the lineage of the Duderstadt-class begins with the venerable 23rd-century USS Pioneer NCC-1500, currently on display at the Fleet Museum at Atali Prime (according to the closing credits for PIC).
A 10-year gap isn't much of a gap - design philosophy doesn't change THAT much in a decade unless something really catastrophic happens. Like what happened to Vulcan in the Kelvin Timeline - that event directly led to the Vengeance, a very different design from anything Starfleet had been fielding thus far.
Well, I'd consider the utter destruction of Star Fleet's main shipyard on Mars a pretty major even that would very much affect the design of Star Fleet ships until the shipyard is restored (which even with late 24th/early 25th century Tech would probably still take decades...)
Let me get this Straight, so after it gets destroyed by Synthetics, Starfleet finally gets it up and running only for the Klingons to attack it 10 years later, Lol Starfleet can't catch a break.
Post edited by paradox#7391 on
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Why is the Intrepid not an Intrepid class? Or is this another area where Picard is not following established canon?
Odds are by the early 25th Century the Intrepid class USS Intrepid was probably decomissioned or destroyed and a new USS Intrepid commissioned as a member of this new class. Not unheard of in Star Trek for a ship name to be attached to different classes. Just look at Enterprise. And considering that the Intrepid was the pathfinder ship of the Intrepid class, mostly likely in the late 2360s/early 2370s... and considering the time period in which Picard s3 takes place in... we are talking upwards of 20-30 years since the Intrepid Class was first commissioned. And we have no idea what the actual lifespan of that class is. Voyager is not exactly a good measuring stick because she was HEAVILY modified during her seven years in the Delta Quadrant... ALONE.
There's also the fact we really didn't see many Intrepids during the Dominion War. The only one we really heard about was the Bellaraphon, which I believe was used by Admiral Ross a couple times. For all we know the Intrepid class USS Intrepid was lost in 2385 when Utopia Plantiia, and Mars, got wrecked. All we know of the Intrepid is that she was part of the battlegroup that WOULD have helped USS Enterprise-E against the Scimitar in 2379... if the Scimitar didn't intercept her long before Enterprise met up with them past the Bassen Rift. That still leaves quite a few years between Nemesis and Picard for a new Intrepid to be built.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Sure back when all Federation starships were Constitution class From ST: III and beyond, the first ship in a new class bore the name, like the Excelsior. Post TNG we had the Defiant which was the first Defiant class starship. Same with the Galaxy. I guess the new writers are not that familiar with Trek lore.
I think the inclusion of the Pioneer class into canon now invalidates the argument of there only being Connies in TOS era. Not only that, pretty good chance the DSC era ships were still in use by the 2260s. Its just possible that the Enterprise under Kirk didn't run into them out on the frontier as much as they might encounter another Connie.
I suppose that is possible this is a new Intrepid class, but the linked artwork does not appear to reflect that. As far as the NX class Enterprise, it was quite a long time before the TNG era where there were less than a handful of ship classes.
The existence of a class does not exclude a name from being used with other classes of ship. That would be like saying "Well we have the Excelsior, but the Excelsior class has been out of production for a hundred years. We can't use that name because of the class that bears her name." That makes no sense in universe and out.
One would think that newer, more modern classes of ships would have a much greater service life than something like the antiquated Miranda class, which from what we saw was still in service in the TNG era and beyond. Seems a bit silly to say that something like the Intrepid class starships were outdated after only 20 years of service when the Miranda was still in use after 80 plus years.
We also have to consider the exact nature of that particular time period, as well as the unknown fate of the Intrepid herself. Again... we don't know what happened to her. The existence of this new Intrepid indicates one of two fates for the previous one. Decommissioned or Destroyed.
That depends on how it was built - despite numerous attempts over the decades, I believe the A-10 Warthog is STILL in service...either because all of its purported replacements either failed to measure up or the Air Force damn near rioted at the dumbass boor-e-crat's attempts to replace their workhorse.
The Miranda could easily have been the A-10 and the Intrepid like...I don't know - the F-117 Nighthawk, which didn't even make it 30 years as a combat aircraft.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
Frankly if they want to replace the A-10... start by building an aircraft with modern specs... AROUND THE SAME GUN! Don't go for a "jack-of-all-trades" approach. Take what works with the A-10... and improve on it. Is it gonna be cheep? No. But it will perform a helluva lot better than something that wasn't designed for that role in the first place.
Hell... you wanna see a good, fictional interpretation of an updated A-10? Look at ArmA 3's A-164 Wipeout. Does the same job, but looks like a frickin' A-10 and an F-22 had a baby.
Well, not including something as simple as fuses or seatbelts in your ships doesn't make a lot of sense either. Nor is not having shields to protect against orbital bombardment during a surprise attack on your capitol world in the middle of a quadrant-spanning war - it's not like they don't exist; Coridan had one, and even if you factor in that was a Discovery-emulating-Star Wars thing, I'm fairly certain they did exist even before that.
Starfleet's track record with sense isn't the best.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Why is the Intrepid not an Intrepid class? Or is this another area where Picard is not following established canon?
Why assume that the USS Intrepid is the first in this class? It would seem apparent that the USS Duderstadt is the first of its class. 🤷♀️
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Also anyone getting upset about the name reuse, I'll remind that that's so common IRL it's typically not even commented on. in fact USN had 2 carrier named USS Yorktown during world war 2 CV-5, a Yorktown class carrier and CV-10, an Essex class carrier and that was within a period of 6 years (less actually as USA didn't join the war until December 1941).
So name reuse isn't this weird and alien thing that never happens on ships, in fact we got plenty of examples of Starfleet reusing names as well, registry reuse is another matter and IIRC that has happened only the USS Defiant (NX-74205), actually the very fact I had to add the registry there to show which USS Defiant I'm referring to should show just how common name reusing is.
That depends on how it was built - despite numerous attempts over the decades, I believe the A-10 Warthog is STILL in service...either because all of its purported replacements either failed to measure up or the Air Force damn near rioted at the dumbass boor-e-crat's attempts to replace their workhorse.
The Warthog is still in service because there's no replacement for her. The Air Force, filled with fighter jocks as it is, has tried to replace it with several different supersonic fighters (starting with a modified F-16), but you need loiter time over the target for a good anti-armor aircraft, not just a high-speed autocannon. The Marine Corps is working on a replacement that's based on a heavily-armored version of a cropduster, because it can loiter just outside the defined battlefield for over an hour.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @mike03uc said: > Given the recent changes to Trek canon in Star Trek: Picard, it looks more and more like STO is in need of a major revamp. I know it’s been a long time since it’s happened, but given recent events in both Picard and Star Trek: Prodigy, it’s getting harder and harder to believe the events of STO occur shortly after the events of Picard. And given the reality that any subsequent Trek installments will occur close to or sometime after the events of Picard, the problem will only get worse. > > Mind you, I doubt the devs themselves will read this and feel the need to act on any of it, nor should they. In fact, I’m pretty sure much of this is either being discussed or already in the works. STO’s dev team has, much to their credit, been right on top of the breakneck-pace of Trek canon changes. I’m posting this mainly to start a discussion or debate, and see how everyone else feels about changes I truly believe are inevitable. > > To wit, I think a variety of changes are necessary to the overall look and feel of STO, as follows: > > Ships > > This is the most obvious, and probably easiest to deal with. Picard changed the overall look and feel of Trek’s 25th century starships. Luckily, this would be an easy fix, as much to their credit Picard’s designers worked closely with STO to create their ship models, which has had the fortunate consequence of bringing many of STO’s best (and most recognizable) models into Trek canon. But that alone likely won’t be enough. STO’s standard ship models need to be modified to align with the new look and feel: older ship models, like the Galaxy and Intrepid classes, should be relegated to the background, if not phased out entirely. > > Some specific changes: > > -Update the models for the U.S.S. Voyager and U.S.S. Challenger from Intrepid-class and Galaxy-class to Pathfinder-class and Andromeda-class, respectively. Interiors for both can (and I would say should) remain as they are, as it stands to reason Starfleet wouldn’t necessarily feel the need to completely alter the interiors of said ships, especially given their iconic statuses. > > -Furthermore, ship registries should be updated to conform to the new Starfleet custom first introduced on Star Trek: Discovery, by which ships undergoing a comprehensive refit (one that effectively upgrades them to a new class) are given a new registration. The Challenger should be updated to NCC-71099-A, the Voyager to NCC-74656-B, the Enterprise to NCC-1701-G, etc.
Oh, I passionately disagree with this. The original Galaxy class in 2399 is only halfway through its operational lifetime (source: technical manual), as I imagine is the Intrepid. No need at all to relegate them to the background. Plus of course, players love the classic ships. First thing I did with my world razer was default it to the classic Galaxy skin. Remember that there were Constitution class ships at the Battle of Wolf 359!
Secondly, as with most things (such as firing torpedoes from the deflector dish) Discovery screwed up yet again here. Ships get a designated letter to honour a particular ship, that is all. It's also extremely rare. There have been numerous Defiants. That honours the name, NOT the ship. If a Defiant was as iconic as the Enterprise then the next Defiant would get the same registration and a letter prefex in honour of the ship. If the original Defiant did nothing extraordinary then another ship named Defiant may be launched later with a different registration and without a letter. (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
Finally, STO is its own universe. The setting is prime but in the shows there are not a million ships named USS Trump, nor will you see Cyclops from the Xmen and Yoda walking past as I just did. Also the Inquisitor looks different to every player. STO came along when it seemed unlikely that we would get more TV Trek. It's pre-Discovery setting is amazing. As well as that, they've managed to keep up to date with current canon remarkably well. If they make fundamental changes then they will always be playing catch up to future series and I don't want that. Cryptic runs storylines with CBS approval, therefore I'm happy to just accept STO as a close, yet alternate timeline. They can incorporate new content however they decide to, or not as the case may be. Temporal science is complicated after all, just run with it.
Why is the Intrepid not an Intrepid class? Or is this another area where Picard is not following established canon?
Why assume that the USS Intrepid is the first in this class? It would seem apparent that the USS Duderstadt is the first of its class. 🤷♀️
Because you have a show like Discovery which had the Crossfield-class, but only two ships produced. Neither of them named Crossfield.
I don't believe it was ever stated that only 2 Crossfield-class were produced, just that they were the only 2 with the experimental spore drive. The name Crossfield-class, though, implies the existence of a USS Crossfield.
Why assume that the USS Intrepid is the first in this class? It would seem apparent that the USS Duderstadt is the first of its class. 🤷♀️
I never said it was the first in the class. I was asking about existing long standing canon where the first ship in a new class was named for the class itself. I suppose I forgot that many of these new writers only seem to have a cursory knowledge of Trek lore, so I guess that answers my question.
Forgive me. I suppose you implied it, or I inferred it from your comments. But aren't you essentially saying the same thing here? Still my question stands, why assume the USS Intrepid is the first ship in this class? Again, the name Duderstadt-class implies the existence of a USS Duderstadt and it being the first in class. 🤷🏼♀️
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,582Community Moderator
I think I see the problem here that keeps this going in circles. You keep refering to Canon and the USS Excelsior as the First of her class. Yet we see the new USS Intrepid as a new class, but NOT the FIRST of her class, yet you keep sounding off like it is the FIRST of her class.
The first Galaxy class we ever saw was NOT the USS Galaxy. The first Miranda class we ever saw was NOT the USS Miranda, the first Intrepid we ever saw was NOT the USS Intrepid... so why should the first Duderstadt class we ever see have to be the USS Duderstadt? Why harp so much on canon when... there's nothing TO harp about? Hell the first Connie III we ever saw was the USS Titan-A! Not the USS Constitution! Why does the Intrepid have to conform to some percieved canon when... it already does?
Do you see the confusion here? You're focusing on something that... honestly doesn't make sense. And when presented with theoretical posibilities as to why there's a new ship of a different class... your answer is to harp about established canon and how the writers don't understand it? It doesn't make sense.
Forgive me. I suppose you implied it, or I inferred it from your comments. But aren't you essentially saying the same thing here? Still my question stands, why assume the USS Intrepid is the first ship in this class? Again, the name Duderstadt-class implies the existence of a USS Duderstadt and it being the first in class. 🤷🏼♀️
No worries at all. It is not really the same thing. Again, long standing canon bears this out. The USS Excelsior was the first Excelsior class starship. The USS Galaxy was the first Galaxy class. The USS Intrepid was the first Intrepid class. The USS Defiant was the first Defiant Class. Even here in STO, the USS Odyssey was the first Odyssey class starship. I understand that prior to the ST:III time frame, this was not the general rule. However, from that time on it was the general rule. Does the Intrepid class no longer exist? Is there no Intrepid refit class like we have seen with the Excelsior and Constitution classes?
I never suggested that the USS Duderstadt was not the first in the Duderstadt class of ship, so I do not know what you are asking there. If the new writers were following established canon, it should be. It seems to me they are ignoring the lore in this regard, so that is explanation enough for me.
Ok, well, I guess I am confused on what exactly you're asking about here. 🤷🏼♀️
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I think I see the problem here that keeps this going in circles. You keep refering to Canon and the USS Excelsior as the First of her class. Yet we see the new USS Intrepid as a new class, but NOT the FIRST of her class, yet you keep sounding off like it is the FIRST of her class.
The first Galaxy class we ever saw was NOT the USS Galaxy. The first Miranda class we ever saw was NOT the USS Miranda, the first Intrepid we ever saw was NOT the USS Intrepid... so why should the first Duderstadt class we ever see have to be the USS Duderstadt? Why harp so much on canon when... there's nothing TO harp about? Hell the first Connie III we ever saw was the USS Titan-A! Not the USS Constitution! Why does the Intrepid have to conform to some percieved canon when... it already does?
Do you see the confusion here? You're focusing on something that... honestly doesn't make sense. And when presented with theoretical posibilities as to why there's a new ship of a different class... your answer is to harp about established canon and how the writers don't understand it? It doesn't make sense.
Hell the first Starship/Constitution class we saw was the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) not the USS Starship or USS Constitution, I mean from the first episode ever made (not aired since the Gage wasn't the first aired) we have a ship that's not first of its class but is the first of the class we see, so I see no reason to assume that a ship of an new class must be first of its class unless stated otherwise or that it not being first of the class somehow breaks canon.
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yeah.. no. look at the US Navy. The Spruance destroyer, the Oliver Hazard Perry, the ticonderoga and the Arleigh Burke and Zumalt classes are all roughly a decade apart and each are a radically different design philosophy
even withing Starfleet, there are different design philosophies from the two nacelle cigar and saucer, to the saucer two nacelle, to the quad engines on Prometheus.
IMO the design of the Connie III does not indicate a full fleet wide revision. The nacelles are the same design as seen on the Sagan class. The only thing that is really a throwback is the overall design style is more in line with older ships with the more traditional saucer, secondary hull, nacelle configuration. And there are still quite a few STO designs flying around too. Hell they canonized the Pathfinder class.
From what little I saw of the Intrepid via YouTube... the design actually reminds me of another design.
Tha Akyazi class, as seen in some TMP era games. Sometimes also referred to as the Akula class (but IMO that conflicts with another starship that also claims that class name)
The Akyazi is sometimes depicted as having a bit hanging underneath, kinda like the Intrepid.
And considering the Connie III class Titan has more in common with the Shangri-La class than the actual Constitution... its entirely possible that this new Intrepid was indeed inspired by the Akyazi class.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Let me get this Straight, so after it gets destroyed by Synthetics, Starfleet finally gets it up and running only for the Klingons to attack it 10 years later, Lol Starfleet can't catch a break.
Odds are by the early 25th Century the Intrepid class USS Intrepid was probably decomissioned or destroyed and a new USS Intrepid commissioned as a member of this new class. Not unheard of in Star Trek for a ship name to be attached to different classes. Just look at Enterprise. And considering that the Intrepid was the pathfinder ship of the Intrepid class, mostly likely in the late 2360s/early 2370s... and considering the time period in which Picard s3 takes place in... we are talking upwards of 20-30 years since the Intrepid Class was first commissioned. And we have no idea what the actual lifespan of that class is. Voyager is not exactly a good measuring stick because she was HEAVILY modified during her seven years in the Delta Quadrant... ALONE.
There's also the fact we really didn't see many Intrepids during the Dominion War. The only one we really heard about was the Bellaraphon, which I believe was used by Admiral Ross a couple times. For all we know the Intrepid class USS Intrepid was lost in 2385 when Utopia Plantiia, and Mars, got wrecked. All we know of the Intrepid is that she was part of the battlegroup that WOULD have helped USS Enterprise-E against the Scimitar in 2379... if the Scimitar didn't intercept her long before Enterprise met up with them past the Bassen Rift. That still leaves quite a few years between Nemesis and Picard for a new Intrepid to be built.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The existence of a class does not exclude a name from being used with other classes of ship. That would be like saying "Well we have the Excelsior, but the Excelsior class has been out of production for a hundred years. We can't use that name because of the class that bears her name." That makes no sense in universe and out.
We also have to consider the exact nature of that particular time period, as well as the unknown fate of the Intrepid herself. Again... we don't know what happened to her. The existence of this new Intrepid indicates one of two fates for the previous one. Decommissioned or Destroyed.
The Miranda could easily have been the A-10 and the Intrepid like...I don't know - the F-117 Nighthawk, which didn't even make it 30 years as a combat aircraft.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Hell... you wanna see a good, fictional interpretation of an updated A-10? Look at ArmA 3's A-164 Wipeout. Does the same job, but looks like a frickin' A-10 and an F-22 had a baby.
Starfleet's track record with sense isn't the best.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Why assume that the USS Intrepid is the first in this class? It would seem apparent that the USS Duderstadt is the first of its class. 🤷♀️
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So name reuse isn't this weird and alien thing that never happens on ships, in fact we got plenty of examples of Starfleet reusing names as well, registry reuse is another matter and IIRC that has happened only the USS Defiant (NX-74205), actually the very fact I had to add the registry there to show which USS Defiant I'm referring to should show just how common name reusing is.
Because you have a show like Discovery which had the Crossfield-class, but only two ships produced. Neither of them named Crossfield.
That we know of.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> Given the recent changes to Trek canon in Star Trek: Picard, it looks more and more like STO is in need of a major revamp. I know it’s been a long time since it’s happened, but given recent events in both Picard and Star Trek: Prodigy, it’s getting harder and harder to believe the events of STO occur shortly after the events of Picard. And given the reality that any subsequent Trek installments will occur close to or sometime after the events of Picard, the problem will only get worse.
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> Mind you, I doubt the devs themselves will read this and feel the need to act on any of it, nor should they. In fact, I’m pretty sure much of this is either being discussed or already in the works. STO’s dev team has, much to their credit, been right on top of the breakneck-pace of Trek canon changes. I’m posting this mainly to start a discussion or debate, and see how everyone else feels about changes I truly believe are inevitable.
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> To wit, I think a variety of changes are necessary to the overall look and feel of STO, as follows:
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> Ships
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> This is the most obvious, and probably easiest to deal with. Picard changed the overall look and feel of Trek’s 25th century starships. Luckily, this would be an easy fix, as much to their credit Picard’s designers worked closely with STO to create their ship models, which has had the fortunate consequence of bringing many of STO’s best (and most recognizable) models into Trek canon. But that alone likely won’t be enough. STO’s standard ship models need to be modified to align with the new look and feel: older ship models, like the Galaxy and Intrepid classes, should be relegated to the background, if not phased out entirely.
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> Some specific changes:
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> -Update the models for the U.S.S. Voyager and U.S.S. Challenger from Intrepid-class and Galaxy-class to Pathfinder-class and Andromeda-class, respectively. Interiors for both can (and I would say should) remain as they are, as it stands to reason Starfleet wouldn’t necessarily feel the need to completely alter the interiors of said ships, especially given their iconic statuses.
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> -Furthermore, ship registries should be updated to conform to the new Starfleet custom first introduced on Star Trek: Discovery, by which ships undergoing a comprehensive refit (one that effectively upgrades them to a new class) are given a new registration. The Challenger should be updated to NCC-71099-A, the Voyager to NCC-74656-B, the Enterprise to NCC-1701-G, etc.
Oh, I passionately disagree with this. The original Galaxy class in 2399 is only halfway through its operational lifetime (source: technical manual), as I imagine is the Intrepid. No need at all to relegate them to the background. Plus of course, players love the classic ships. First thing I did with my world razer was default it to the classic Galaxy skin. Remember that there were Constitution class ships at the Battle of Wolf 359!
Secondly, as with most things (such as firing torpedoes from the deflector dish) Discovery screwed up yet again here. Ships get a designated letter to honour a particular ship, that is all. It's also extremely rare. There have been numerous Defiants. That honours the name, NOT the ship. If a Defiant was as iconic as the Enterprise then the next Defiant would get the same registration and a letter prefex in honour of the ship. If the original Defiant did nothing extraordinary then another ship named Defiant may be launched later with a different registration and without a letter. (Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
Finally, STO is its own universe. The setting is prime but in the shows there are not a million ships named USS Trump, nor will you see Cyclops from the Xmen and Yoda walking past as I just did. Also the Inquisitor looks different to every player. STO came along when it seemed unlikely that we would get more TV Trek. It's pre-Discovery setting is amazing. As well as that, they've managed to keep up to date with current canon remarkably well. If they make fundamental changes then they will always be playing catch up to future series and I don't want that. Cryptic runs storylines with CBS approval, therefore I'm happy to just accept STO as a close, yet alternate timeline. They can incorporate new content however they decide to, or not as the case may be. Temporal science is complicated after all, just run with it.
I don't believe it was ever stated that only 2 Crossfield-class were produced, just that they were the only 2 with the experimental spore drive. The name Crossfield-class, though, implies the existence of a USS Crossfield.
Forgive me. I suppose you implied it, or I inferred it from your comments. But aren't you essentially saying the same thing here? Still my question stands, why assume the USS Intrepid is the first ship in this class? Again, the name Duderstadt-class implies the existence of a USS Duderstadt and it being the first in class. 🤷🏼♀️
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The first Galaxy class we ever saw was NOT the USS Galaxy. The first Miranda class we ever saw was NOT the USS Miranda, the first Intrepid we ever saw was NOT the USS Intrepid... so why should the first Duderstadt class we ever see have to be the USS Duderstadt? Why harp so much on canon when... there's nothing TO harp about? Hell the first Connie III we ever saw was the USS Titan-A! Not the USS Constitution! Why does the Intrepid have to conform to some percieved canon when... it already does?
Do you see the confusion here? You're focusing on something that... honestly doesn't make sense. And when presented with theoretical posibilities as to why there's a new ship of a different class... your answer is to harp about established canon and how the writers don't understand it? It doesn't make sense.
Ok, well, I guess I am confused on what exactly you're asking about here. 🤷🏼♀️
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