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When we get the Neo Constitution class, do you expect the USS Shangri-La to be one of the options?

mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
Title kind of says it all. For those unfamiliar with the USS Titan-A coming in season 3 of Picard, there's this:

https://youtu.be/-sizDFYphvw

... and this is the USS Shangri-La, which (I believe?) is considered 'soft canon' at this point, since it appeared in Ships of the Line:

xwfrb4w3v186.jpg

To be totally honest (though YMMV, of course), I think the Shangri-La is simply a better design - I prefer the TMP-era nacelles, I like the weird semi-saucer, and the placement of the torpedo launchers is inspired. The Titan-A is a lot... more somber. But, then again, so is the color palette of that entire series.

:#

Assuming that we see the Titan-A "Neo Constitution" at some point (and that it isn't a bloody lockbox ship), do you believe that the Shangri-La will be one of the sub-designs built in to the release? Frankly, the game doesn't actually have a lot of ships from TMP timespan, so it would be nice to see another added.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    There might be a rights issue for non-canon ships designed by others, so...maybe?
  • mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    There might be a rights issue for non-canon ships designed by others, so...maybe?

    He designed both ships, I believe.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    Still... unless CBS gives the green light, and actually owns the design, there could be issues. Just like how there were issues getting the Vesta years ago.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Still... unless CBS gives the green light, and actually owns the design, there could be issues. Just like how there were issues getting the Vesta years ago.

    No idea. Legally, what 'is' the Ships of the Line calendar?
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,263 Arc User
    Not 100% sure but I'd say it's EU material (aka licensed material) not CBS made things, so there could be be issues with the rights.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,343 Arc User
    Not a fan of either design. Seems a cheap ploy to me tbh. Unless they explain that the reason they've regressed over 70 year's worth of design because of their over-reliance on borg-inspired tech.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Not a fan of either design. Seems a cheap ploy to me tbh. Unless they explain that the reason they've regressed over 70 year's worth of design because of their over-reliance on borg-inspired tech.

    Could be a symbolic showing of the Federation returning to its exploratory roots while embracing new technologies. Ship design doesn't always demand specific hull configurations, especially when technology is refined. The Constitution Class was the poster child of deep space exploration in the 23rd Century. By building a new incarnation of such a venerable design, it could be showing the citizens of the Federation that Starfleet is back, and Exploration is back on the menu.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,362 Arc User
    I'm just hoping that it won't be officially called the Neo-Constitution-class. That's a terrible name, like calling the new generation of US aircraft carriers the Neo-Nimitz-class instead of the Ford-class.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    Until we have something official... we might have to make due. Although I'd probably accept Connie-III as well. But maybe even having a class named after a famous Connie as well.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I'm just hoping that it won't be officially called the Neo-Constitution-class. That's a terrible name, like calling the new generation of US aircraft carriers the Neo-Nimitz-class instead of the Ford-class.

    It is a terrible name... and neither we (the USN) nor the Royal Navy don't do such things IRL, as far as I know. Frankly, I think it's a lazy bit of nostalgia fishing that's far too on-the-nose for Starfleet.
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Not a fan of either design. Seems a cheap ploy to me tbh. Unless they explain that the reason they've regressed over 70 year's worth of design because of their over-reliance on borg-inspired tech.

    I'm not completely in love with the design, either. But I want more TMP-era ships. It's clear that Starfleet went through a period of about 20-25 years where the vessels had that kind of aesthetic - colors, nacelles, general saucer shaping, etc. - that we see on the refit Enterprise and Miranda. But I refuse to believe that the fleet during that time was composed ENTIRELY of Constitution and Miranda-class ships - that's taking the limitations of the budget of TOS and the limited requirements of the films (and the expense of producing screen-worthy models) and turning it into canon.

    STO has done a modest job of fleshing out the TOS-era stable with theoretical designs (though GOD I wish we could get a T6 Pioneer), and there are a less-satisfactory number of Excelsior-era boats (we're still missing the Curry - not a fan, but I know people who love it). But we're really, really short on TMP timespan stuff. And this would help.

    Not mad or lecturing, btw - just explaining my motivations in desiring this.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    Well, they literally called the new Excelsior-class the Excelsior II, so...Neo-Constitution isn't a stretch.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 988 Arc User
    edited January 2023
    > @jonsills said:
    > I'm just hoping that it won't be officially called the Neo-Constitution-class. That's a terrible name, like calling the new generation of US aircraft carriers the Neo-Nimitz-class instead of the Ford-class.

    I totally agree with Jon!And for you naysayers out there—Kael already said in the livestream they are working on the Neocon or Pawnee (Picard-Connie). I wouldn’t be surprised if it will be be in a lockbox before Picard season 3 ends. A new Picard hero ship…yeah that’s going to generate enough money to finance the game for most the year. It is likely going to be the most in-demand ship of the year—and possibly longer.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    Call the new Connie variant whatever you like. If CBS greenlights it becoming part of STO, Cryptic slaps it into a Lock Box faster than you can say, 'quadrotriticale'. Next, whales spend large amounts of cash buying keys and opening said Lock Boxes. At which point, the new Connie variant becomes available on the Exchange for around 1.5 billion EC. After this, endless threads appear here damning Cryptic for not putting the ship out for free. "Cuz my Gramma gave me five bucks for Christmas an' I wanna have the new ship!"

    Sound familiar?
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    Call the new Connie variant whatever you like. If CBS greenlights it becoming part of STO, Cryptic slaps it into a Lock Box faster than you can say, 'quadrotriticale'. Next, whales spend large amounts of cash buying keys and opening said Lock Boxes. At which point, the new Connie variant becomes available on the Exchange for around 1.5 billion EC. After this, endless threads appear here damning Cryptic for not putting the ship out for free. "Cuz my Gramma gave me five bucks for Christmas an' I wanna have the new ship!"

    Sound familiar?

    Sounds familiar and very repeated.

    52611496918_3c42b8bab8.jpg
    Departing from Sol *Earth* by Carlos A Smith,on Flickr
    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 14th-year journey
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,362 Arc User
    Call the new Connie variant whatever you like. If CBS greenlights it becoming part of STO, Cryptic slaps it into a Lock Box faster than you can say, 'quadrotriticale'. Next, whales spend large amounts of cash buying keys and opening said Lock Boxes. At which point, the new Connie variant becomes available on the Exchange for around 1.5 billion EC. After this, endless threads appear here damning Cryptic for not putting the ship out for free. "Cuz my Gramma gave me five bucks for Christmas an' I wanna have the new ship!"

    Sound familiar?
    And then some of us will wait until the next Event Campaign, then use the token to unlock a lockbox ship - that's how I commissioned the Parliament-class USS Funkadelic this year.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    > @legendarylycan#5411 said:
    > Well, they literally called the new Excelsior-class the Excelsior II, so...Neo-Constitution isn't a stretch.​​

    I say that's just the Obena class but a prettied up CGI model. A hill I will die on and no showrunner can convince me otherwise.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    The very obvious Sovereign nacelles on her don't line up with the Excel-II. I mean we're talking completely different pylons and nacelles at the very least.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    edited January 2023
    jonsills wrote: »
    And then some of us will wait until the next Event Campaign, then use the token to unlock a lockbox ship - that's how I commissioned the Parliament-class USS Funkadelic this year.

    Excuse me but did you just carbon-date yourself with that ship name? Oh my! roflmao.
    Post edited by thunderfoot#5163 on
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Call the new Connie variant whatever you like. If CBS greenlights it becoming part of STO, Cryptic slaps it into a Lock Box faster than you can say, 'quadrotriticale'. Next, whales spend large amounts of cash buying keys and opening said Lock Boxes. At which point, the new Connie variant becomes available on the Exchange for around 1.5 billion EC. After this, endless threads appear here damning Cryptic for not putting the ship out for free. "Cuz my Gramma gave me five bucks for Christmas an' I wanna have the new ship!"

    Sound familiar?
    And then some of us will wait until the next Event Campaign, then use the token to unlock a lockbox ship - that's how I commissioned the Parliament-class USS Funkadelic this year.

    The Parliament was so panned upon release, it's hard to believe anyone flies it. /hattip to you, sir, for swimming upstream.
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > The very obvious Sovereign nacelles on her don't line up with the Excel-II. I mean we're talking completely different pylons and nacelles at the very least.

    Don't take away my hill
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,362 Arc User
    mattingly1 wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    Call the new Connie variant whatever you like. If CBS greenlights it becoming part of STO, Cryptic slaps it into a Lock Box faster than you can say, 'quadrotriticale'. Next, whales spend large amounts of cash buying keys and opening said Lock Boxes. At which point, the new Connie variant becomes available on the Exchange for around 1.5 billion EC. After this, endless threads appear here damning Cryptic for not putting the ship out for free. "Cuz my Gramma gave me five bucks for Christmas an' I wanna have the new ship!"

    Sound familiar?
    And then some of us will wait until the next Event Campaign, then use the token to unlock a lockbox ship - that's how I commissioned the Parliament-class USS Funkadelic this year.

    The Parliament was so panned upon release, it's hard to believe anyone flies it. /hattip to you, sir, for swimming upstream.
    With the gear I have on her, the Funkadelic acquits herself quite admirably in TFOs. (The Tholian web projector helps a lot, of course.)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    I wouldn't mind trying one out myself. The problem is that they're outside my current ingame budget. Along with just about everything else I want.
    I'm not really interested in the Maquis Raider, I've already got two Walkers, I've already got an NX Refit, I've already got a Vengeance...
    But surprisingly those are relatively common in the 300-400 mil range. I know most of them are Lobi Store, but still...
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,362 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind trying one out myself. The problem is that they're outside my current ingame budget. Along with just about everything else I want.
    Same, which is why I used the coupon at the end of the Event Campaign to get it. Have to confess, it was mostly for the name Funkadelic - it was a toss-up between a Parliament and a Cali (so I could finally fly USS Chula Vista).
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    edited January 2023
    Well... for me right now its probably going to be a tossup between a Parliament, California, Inquiry, and something to either show some love to my KDF or Romulan.
    Hell I even looked at the Kirk a couple times.

    Although if the Farragut is available my DSC Character's getting more love again.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,646 Arc User
    Choosing to reply to the best thread on this starship design. I was on Facebook today. And an interesting topic came up over on Doug Drexler's page. Who works on the Picard series.
    >>Doug, if you have time for a question: could you comment on the obsession the producers seem to have with over-engine-ing starships with impulse vents in the modern era? The new Titan, for example, seems to have no less than six different impulse drive outlets. Any of the three pairs would have been more than enough, IMO. Is there an engineering version of the "more dakkka" rule...lol? Thanks in advance.<<

    Hi Greg! I don't know about the other shows, but "Picard" has a reason that works with the Titan's mission envelope -

    NCC-80102-A—Constitution III Class, referred to in Starfleet slang as Neo-Constitution Class. This new Titan is primarily an exploratory vessel, honoring the retro design of the original proto construction series. Launched in 2402 under the command of Captain Liam Shaw, and First Officer Annika Hansen aka former Borg drone Seven of Nine. Although constructed using select Fifth Generation iterations of systems from its predecessor, it is essentially an all new ship despite Starfleet engineers affectionately designating a refit. The Constitution III was designed to cater to a close support envelope at sub-light speeds, namely in and around densely populated solar systems, as witnessed by its over-powered impulse engines. The largest sub-light power to geometry ratio in the fleet.

    As far as I can tell, Constitution III is the formal class name. Close support envelope at sub-light speeds suggests for our game purposes as a high turn rate cruiser? What speculative turn-rate should it have? Without totally breaking the system we are familiar with?
    (/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,504 Arc User
    edited January 2023
    psiameese wrote: »
    Choosing to reply to the best thread on this starship design. I was on Facebook today. And an interesting topic came up over on Doug Drexler's page. Who works on the Picard series.
    >>Doug, if you have time for a question: could you comment on the obsession the producers seem to have with over-engine-ing starships with impulse vents in the modern era? The new Titan, for example, seems to have no less than six different impulse drive outlets. Any of the three pairs would have been more than enough, IMO. Is there an engineering version of the "more dakkka" rule...lol? Thanks in advance.<<

    Hi Greg! I don't know about the other shows, but "Picard" has a reason that works with the Titan's mission envelope -

    NCC-80102-A—Constitution III Class, referred to in Starfleet slang as Neo-Constitution Class. This new Titan is primarily an exploratory vessel, honoring the retro design of the original proto construction series. Launched in 2402 under the command of Captain Liam Shaw, and First Officer Annika Hansen aka former Borg drone Seven of Nine. Although constructed using select Fifth Generation iterations of systems from its predecessor, it is essentially an all new ship despite Starfleet engineers affectionately designating a refit. The Constitution III was designed to cater to a close support envelope at sub-light speeds, namely in and around densely populated solar systems, as witnessed by its over-powered impulse engines. The largest sub-light power to geometry ratio in the fleet.

    As far as I can tell, Constitution III is the formal class name. Close support envelope at sub-light speeds suggests for our game purposes as a high turn rate cruiser? What speculative turn-rate should it have? Without totally breaking the system we are familiar with?

    Frankly, the whole idea of using impulse engines (except as emergency drives) and thereby subjecting themselves to Einsteinian physics constraints (such as inertia) is ridiculous when they have warp drives available that avoids all of that (and as TOS showed is perfectly safe to use right from planetary orbit).

    In TOS they used the impulse engines as anything but a power generator (or in one case, an explosive) a total of less than a half-dozen times in the whole 79 episode run. And they only used it as anything but an emergency backup once, in "Elaan of Troyius", to give them time to civilize Elaan somewhat before delivering her to Troyius. Not only was Scotty flabbergasted that Kirk wanted to deliberately use the things the whole way between Elan and Troyius (two planets in the same star system) instead of warping, the dialog in one scene explicitly states that the impulse drives are never used for moving the ship except when the warp drive is knocked out.

    Realism considerations aside, it sounds like the class should probably be faster than other cruisers at impulse but that doesn't mean it would necessarily have a tighter turn rate (though it would be nicer to fly with one, and it is not too farfetched provided that some of those engines are further from centerline than other cruisers have). It would be logical to assume that its trait should have some sort of control resistance to it as a side-feature (a good trait could be the ability to death-drag enemies or something, possibly along with a shorter high-impulse cooldown) because of the power of the oversized engines.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,017 Community Moderator
    The issue is that as established after TOS, Impulse is used for sublight travel, and warp drive is used for faster than light. It has been consistant through the movies and later shows, and was also seen "before" TOS going all the way back to the 22nd Century with Enterprise. The only oddball in that case, is TOS. As the franchise grew, they standardized many things. One of them beign the distinction between FTL Warp Drive and sublight Impulse Drive.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,646 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The issue is that as established after TOS, Impulse is used for sublight travel, and warp drive is used for faster than light. It has been consistant through the movies and later shows, and was also seen "before" TOS going all the way back to the 22nd Century with Enterprise. The only oddball in that case, is TOS. As the franchise grew, they standardized many things. One of them being the distinction between FTL Warp Drive and sublight Impulse Drive.

    I agree that Drexler's premise is a consistent extension of tech standards put forth by Sternbach's contribution to the TNG writers. And, later, the TNG Technical Manual available to us.

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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,343 Arc User
    psiameese wrote: »
    Choosing to reply to the best thread on this starship design. I was on Facebook today. And an interesting topic came up over on Doug Drexler's page. Who works on the Picard series.
    >>Doug, if you have time for a question: could you comment on the obsession the producers seem to have with over-engine-ing starships with impulse vents in the modern era? The new Titan, for example, seems to have no less than six different impulse drive outlets. Any of the three pairs would have been more than enough, IMO. Is there an engineering version of the "more dakkka" rule...lol? Thanks in advance.<<

    Hi Greg! I don't know about the other shows, but "Picard" has a reason that works with the Titan's mission envelope -

    NCC-80102-A—Constitution III Class, referred to in Starfleet slang as Neo-Constitution Class. This new Titan is primarily an exploratory vessel, honoring the retro design of the original proto construction series. Launched in 2402 under the command of Captain Liam Shaw, and First Officer Annika Hansen aka former Borg drone Seven of Nine. Although constructed using select Fifth Generation iterations of systems from its predecessor, it is essentially an all new ship despite Starfleet engineers affectionately designating a refit. The Constitution III was designed to cater to a close support envelope at sub-light speeds, namely in and around densely populated solar systems, as witnessed by its over-powered impulse engines. The largest sub-light power to geometry ratio in the fleet.

    As far as I can tell, Constitution III is the formal class name. Close support envelope at sub-light speeds suggests for our game purposes as a high turn rate cruiser? What speculative turn-rate should it have? Without totally breaking the system we are familiar with?

    Frankly, the whole idea of using impulse engines (except as emergency drives) and thereby subjecting themselves to Einsteinian physics constraints (such as inertia) is ridiculous when they have warp drives available that avoids all of that (and as TOS showed is perfectly safe to use right from planetary orbit).

    In TOS they used the impulse engines as anything but a power generator (or in one case, an explosive) a total of less than a half-dozen times in the whole 79 episode run. And they only used it as anything but an emergency backup once, in "Elaan of Troyius", to give them time to civilize Elaan somewhat before delivering her to Troyius. Not only was Scotty flabbergasted that Kirk wanted to deliberately use the things the whole way between Elan and Troyius (two planets in the same star system) instead of warping, the dialog in one scene explicitly states that the impulse drives are never used for moving the ship except when the warp drive is knocked out.

    Realism considerations aside, it sounds like the class should probably be faster than other cruisers at impulse but that doesn't mean it would necessarily have a tighter turn rate (though it would be nicer to fly with one, and it is not too farfetched provided that some of those engines are further from centerline than other cruisers have). It would be logical to assume that its trait should have some sort of control resistance to it as a side-feature (a good trait could be the ability to death-drag enemies or something, possibly along with a shorter high-impulse cooldown) because of the power of the oversized engines.

    Given that, especially during the TOS era, dilithium is seen as a finite resource, it made zero sense to be using warp drive frivolously with-in a solar system. IIRC it is even said that use of the warp drive within a system is restricted, unless in an emergency all the way up to and including TMP where they didn't go to warp until past Jupiter. The reasons probably are so as not to affect local bodies through the warping of space by affecting gravitational constants. Without delving into the technical manuals, there probably is a low level warp field at higher impulse speeds to negate Einsteinian effects, with standard top speeds of 1/4 lightspeed, but the problem with warp is it is notoriously hard to turn, which is probably achieved by altering the dynamics of the warp field, as thrusters and impulse would have no effect within the warp field.

    Just remember that paradoxically, the warp drive moves space around the ship.

    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,362 Arc User
    Also, before Einstein and Lorentz really factor into the conversation, you have to be moving at a significant fraction of lightspeed. Below about .5c, you won't even notice the lag, and it doesn't become a real problem for differing chronometers until around .7c or so. (Sure, the computers will notice the lag at even lower velocities, but they can compensate.)

    And it should be remembered that when TOS was on the air, there was little worry about continuity on most TV shows. It's not like they expected a cult-like audience to form and pore over all the minutiae of any given show for decades to come...
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