This just occurred to me:
You say you can't disable it only for the race.
But what about detecting it's use? Can you do that?
Then you could disqualify the racer, and problem solved.
If you can't detect it either, maybe you could make it a function of the charm itself.
Add a function to the charm that checks for the racing-quest and cause disqualification / drops the quest / teleports the user off the track / whatever.
Don't use a chainsaw where you should use a scalpel.
Keep the cat in wonderland.
Hopefully the programmers can see these suggestions instead of just "banhammer" the charm...
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Me seeing the game from another perspective, it's the Q's event, usually he doesn't do things for us to have fun, he just wants to have fun.
Let's say that by disabling the charm, he is having fun with the complaints and the opinions that are given about the changes that were made.
It's like you took the words right out of my head! I said similar in explaining the current plot as Wesley getting his revenge for all the grief sent his way
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,680Community Moderator
Ok guys... I'm gonna point out something here myself, just so that its on the board.
Anything further than just disabling the charm wholesale in Q's Winter Wonderland is going to take time. The "banhammer" is a band aid solution that could be implimented immediately with no drastic coding. Trying to modify anything would take time.
Could something be implimented by next year? Maybe.
Can it be implimented THIS year? Magic 8-Ball says no.
As for all the other items... honestly that's getting into the "splitting hairs" category. We also have to consider that most of them are WIDELY available, whereas the cat charm was an event item that not everyone could get. The Ketracel thing is limited to Jem'Hadar characters, and calling for a ban on a whole "faction" is unfair to those who play Jem'Hadar. What's next? Banning Caitians and Ferasans because they can jump higher? Where does it end? How big does the snowball have to grow before things get out of hand?
It may not be a popular decision, but it was one based on reports of people using it to gain an unfair advantage over others in a PvP race using an item that is currently unavailable to the wider playerbase due to it being an event item itself.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I mean, sure, but unless each activation fo the charm cost 150 zen I dont think any solution will be implemented ever. Hopefully I will be proven wrong.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
I wouldn't get my hopes up. They said they'd need a whole new system to do that. It's not likely to be something high on the development list.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Players without the charm have near zero chance to even compete in a race without it.
This is comepletely wrong.
The charm gives a lousy +10 boost.
Jem'Hadar get +25, and there are many other speedboost-items (Armor etc) that are being used all the time. You just don't know it because they have no obvious visuals.
Were it available to everyone, then it would be a different story
It IS availible to everyone. While the event has ended, you can still do a buyout.
This is nerfing a fun item that was hard to get, but leaving all other unfair advantages untouched.
BTW I've never seen an event-reward-console being banned from PvP-fights.
Isn't that the same "unfair advantage" from an item not everyone has?
Why is the cat any different?
Where do you draw the line and why?
Shouldn't an event-reward be useful and provide an advantage?
Isn't that the reason to do the event?
This is comepletely wrong.
The charm gives a lousy +10 boost.
Jem'Hadar get +25, and there are many other speedboost-items (Armor etc) that are being used all the time. You just don't know it because they have no obvious visuals.
So if it is not a big deal to you, have you never used it during the race?
No, it is not wrong. Not in the least. You are even admitting there is a boost involved, so trying to claim it does not provide an unfair advantage is just silly. Barring any player error, will a player using nothing special and without the charm be able to beat a player using the charm? The answer is no. The player without has no chance to compete fairly.
It IS availible to everyone. While the event has ended, you can still do a buyout.
I do not see where you can do a buyout on the Halloween event in game, and paying money should not be required to be competitive in my opinion.
At this point, someone can only do the second chance buyout if they had done any kind of progress on the halloween event. It's no different than previous limited time events.
This is nerfing a fun item that was hard to get, but leaving all other unfair advantages untouched.
First, I realize this is subjective, however saying it was "hard" to obtain the charm is a gross exaggeration in my opinion. You spent less than 10 minutes a day (if that) for a few days to earn it. Tedious may be a better descriptor versus "hard."
As far as other advantages, things like rolling a Jem'Hadar or getting armor or snow boots a new player can do now. It is not an event item they may have missed out on or be required to spend real money on.
Where do you draw the line and why?
Cryptic drew the line here for whatever reason they saw fit. Obviously they feel it was not the intended purpose of the charm, so they are correcting it.
There ARE limits though to everything else that people can get in the game if they're new players though.
Stuff like the Endeavor sprint boost, Burnham's armor, run speed boost from reputation are all level gated stuff, while the frosted boots are limited by how much currency someone has.
Jem'hadar are not really for new players as by selecting them, they miss out on a chunk of the story since they cannot play through the rest of it until they complete the Gamma Quadrant arc.
People are right to point out that other boosts still exist though.
Endeavours for example also give an unfair advantage over newer players. It is somewhat strange that Cryptic only now chooses to address the issue of some powers and passives working in WW while others don't and haven't been since the first time the event was held.
If Cryptic is able to simply disable all passive speed boosts, that would be the best solution in my opinion. Disabling only a few specific ones is unfair, allowing use of all possible speed boosts was never the intention so that leaves one option: to disable all of them again.
So if it is not a big deal to you, have you never used it during the race?
No, I haven't even played the race this year, but from my experience with the cat on the frozen lake I doubt that it really is much of an advantage. It's so hard to control on ice. Maybe for the final sprint to the finishing-line it is a minor advantage.
No, it is not wrong. Not in the least. You are even admitting there is a boost involved, so trying to claim it does not provide an unfair advantage is just silly.
The advantage is questionable (see above), but even then it's not an unfair one.
It's an event-item and an advantage we earned. No other event item, no console, no ship has ever been banned from a PvP activity.
Barring any player error, will a player using nothing special and without the charm be able to beat a player using the charm? The answer is no. The player without has no chance to compete fairly.
And is this any different than racing against a Jem'Hadar or a player in Bunhams armour or a player who has spent 20 endeavour-points in Sprintspeed?
Non of this is banned, and they all provide greater speedboost than the cat.
First, I realize this is subjective, however saying it was "hard" to obtain the charm is a gross exaggeration in my opinion. You spent less than 10 minutes a day (if that) for a few days to earn it. Tedious may be a better descriptor versus "hard."
Well the hard thing was not quitting, every time I got teamed up with a Genius who blew out the candles, or lured the skeletons out of the light. It could take waaay longer than 10min. But ok, I settle for tedious.
As far as other advantages, things like rolling a Jem'Hadar or getting armor or snow boots a new player can do now. It is not an event item they may have missed out on or be required to spend real money on.
But that's exactely the point.
We play the events to get the reward.
Those who didn't play the event don't have the reward (unless they get their credit-card out).
That's the whole concept of events and event-rewards in this game.
It is not unfair to use them. It's something you have earned.
As to why they are allowing other boosts to continue to be used is anyone's guess.
It was removed because people complained, and people complained because it is visible where the other speedboosts (armour, endeavour points) are not.
That is the only reason, and this makes their decision so questionable.
It's an earned event-item.
Either you have played the event or you pay money or you don't have it.
That is true for every single event-item.
I haven't seen any event-item, any weapon, console or ship being banned from PvP on the grounds that other players might not have it.
It's an earned event-item.
Either you have played the event or you pay money or you don't have it.
That is true for every single event-item.
I haven't seen any event-item, any weapon, console or ship being banned from PvP on the grounds that other players might not have it.
No, but PvP generally allows for all things to be used.
The Winter event on the other hand always had everything disabled, except the special gear from the event itself.
And then, over the years, all sorts of new things were added like new traits and Jem'Hadar and they probably simply forgot to ensure that those were disabled in the event too. I.e., a lot of stuff was added and its effects on some very specific situations weren't fully considered.
In my humble opinion, a vote could not be carried out, but this vote should have a notification at a global level, for example with ingame messages, mail etc and thus the debate would end, because only here I see that it is only a decision to benefit PvP players and what about the rest of the players who are not interested in PvP?
This just occurred to me:
You say you can't disable it only for the race.
But what about detecting it's use? Can you do that?
Then you could disqualify the racer, and problem solved.
If you can't detect it either, maybe you could make it a function of the charm itself.
Add a function to the charm that checks for the racing-quest and cause disqualification / drops the quest / teleports the user off the track / whatever.
Don't use a chainsaw where you should use a scalpel.
Keep the cat in wonderland.
I'm sorry, but the moderator already mentioned that the "programmers" have responded that "...this would've required building all new software...", indeed, as you mentioned, it would be easy to solve this problem, adding a new parameter to the list of the validation block, the problem is that we don't know how the validation block handles those internal parameters (if it has one), I personally suspect (or want to think) that the problem is precisely in the validation block, besides having to do everything the "software" (algorithm) again for my evidence a serious structural problem within the code, in other words apparently the code is not as modular as we would like to believe.
In other words, the difference between a well-designed code from the beginning and a badly designed one is like night and day, different and immutable, in the case of "bad design", if you want to modify "night", you have to modify before, the lunar orbit, the atmospheric composition and density, etc., ironically by modifying the orbit or the atmosphere, you would trigger an "avalanche" of chain reactions, which would seriously complicate other aspects, I would like to think that this is the case, a "bad design"…
There ARE limits though to everything else that people can get in the game if they're new players though.
Stuff like the Endeavor sprint boost, Burnham's armor, run speed boost from reputation are all level gated stuff, while the frosted boots are limited by how much currency someone has.
These do not require a new player to spend any real money on. Just my own personal guess, but I believe this is part of the reasoning Cryptic has about the charm in particular.
Except that unless a new player played through some but not all of the halloween event, there's no current way for new someone to get the cat charm, as they always have a delay on puttting items into Mudd's Market.
I'm sorry, but the moderator already mentioned that the "programmers" have responded that "...this would've required building all new software..."
"This" being disabling the charm only during the race, nothing else.
That's why suggested alternate methods that do not rely on the charms validation block.
When the direct method doesn't work, you approach the problem from another angel.
You don't know the code and neither do I. I only gave them ideas, alternate solutions that would be done in a completely different part of the code, where changes may (or my not) be easier to implement.
But thanks for the very dramatic lesson about modifying night. Although one Data-object being based on another object actually isn't a sigh of bad design.
I'm sorry, but the moderator already mentioned that the "programmers" have responded that "...this would've required building all new software..."
"This" being disabling the charm only during the race, nothing else.
That's why suggested alternate methods that do not rely on the charms validation block.
When the direct method doesn't work, you approach the problem from another angel.
You don't know the code and neither do I. I only gave them ideas, alternate solutions that would be done in a completely different part of the code, where changes may (or my not) be easier to implement.
But thanks for the very dramatic lesson about modifying night. Although one Data-object being based on another object actually isn't a sigh of bad design.
Actually, "this" being DQing anyone who uses one.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I ran the race with the cat charm before the patch and after. it feels to me like it no longer boosts speed to the same degree as before. Can't prove it. Wasn't DQed.
Star Trek Online (@trekonlinegame)
Update on the Cat Charm and the Winter Event: The patch notes were in error yesterday, the ability to use the cat was not removed from the Winter Event, just its speed boost. This decision may change for next year's event, more conversations need to be had internally.
Still can't run around the map to get to areas quicker.
Because the speed boost was removed.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Still can't run around the map to get to areas quicker.
Because the speed boost was removed.
And it is not like you needed the speed boost. You can easy get to all events in the WW without rushing.
Agreed. The frosted boots work just as well, if you're wanting extra speed. It's not like the map is the size of New Romulus. 🤷♀️
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Real shame they removed the boost, it was fun to run across wonderland really fast without the slippery-ness of the boots. Well, its still better than the big banhammer.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
Comments
Hopefully the programmers can see these suggestions instead of just "banhammer" the charm...
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
It's like you took the words right out of my head!
Anything further than just disabling the charm wholesale in Q's Winter Wonderland is going to take time. The "banhammer" is a band aid solution that could be implimented immediately with no drastic coding. Trying to modify anything would take time.
Could something be implimented by next year? Maybe.
Can it be implimented THIS year? Magic 8-Ball says no.
As for all the other items... honestly that's getting into the "splitting hairs" category. We also have to consider that most of them are WIDELY available, whereas the cat charm was an event item that not everyone could get. The Ketracel thing is limited to Jem'Hadar characters, and calling for a ban on a whole "faction" is unfair to those who play Jem'Hadar. What's next? Banning Caitians and Ferasans because they can jump higher? Where does it end? How big does the snowball have to grow before things get out of hand?
It may not be a popular decision, but it was one based on reports of people using it to gain an unfair advantage over others in a PvP race using an item that is currently unavailable to the wider playerbase due to it being an event item itself.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
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Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
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This is comepletely wrong.
The charm gives a lousy +10 boost.
Jem'Hadar get +25, and there are many other speedboost-items (Armor etc) that are being used all the time. You just don't know it because they have no obvious visuals.
It IS availible to everyone. While the event has ended, you can still do a buyout.
This is nerfing a fun item that was hard to get, but leaving all other unfair advantages untouched.
BTW I've never seen an event-reward-console being banned from PvP-fights.
Isn't that the same "unfair advantage" from an item not everyone has?
Why is the cat any different?
Where do you draw the line and why?
Shouldn't an event-reward be useful and provide an advantage?
Isn't that the reason to do the event?
At this point, someone can only do the second chance buyout if they had done any kind of progress on the halloween event. It's no different than previous limited time events.
There ARE limits though to everything else that people can get in the game if they're new players though.
Stuff like the Endeavor sprint boost, Burnham's armor, run speed boost from reputation are all level gated stuff, while the frosted boots are limited by how much currency someone has.
Jem'hadar are not really for new players as by selecting them, they miss out on a chunk of the story since they cannot play through the rest of it until they complete the Gamma Quadrant arc.
Endeavours for example also give an unfair advantage over newer players. It is somewhat strange that Cryptic only now chooses to address the issue of some powers and passives working in WW while others don't and haven't been since the first time the event was held.
If Cryptic is able to simply disable all passive speed boosts, that would be the best solution in my opinion. Disabling only a few specific ones is unfair, allowing use of all possible speed boosts was never the intention so that leaves one option: to disable all of them again.
No, I haven't even played the race this year, but from my experience with the cat on the frozen lake I doubt that it really is much of an advantage. It's so hard to control on ice. Maybe for the final sprint to the finishing-line it is a minor advantage.
The advantage is questionable (see above), but even then it's not an unfair one.
It's an event-item and an advantage we earned. No other event item, no console, no ship has ever been banned from a PvP activity.
And is this any different than racing against a Jem'Hadar or a player in Bunhams armour or a player who has spent 20 endeavour-points in Sprintspeed?
Non of this is banned, and they all provide greater speedboost than the cat.
C-Store, Event Buyout tab.
Well the hard thing was not quitting, every time I got teamed up with a Genius who blew out the candles, or lured the skeletons out of the light. It could take waaay longer than 10min. But ok, I settle for tedious.
But that's exactely the point.
We play the events to get the reward.
Those who didn't play the event don't have the reward (unless they get their credit-card out).
That's the whole concept of events and event-rewards in this game.
It is not unfair to use them. It's something you have earned.
Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. Doesn't make the decision right.
It was removed because people complained, and people complained because it is visible where the other speedboosts (armour, endeavour points) are not.
That is the only reason, and this makes their decision so questionable.
Either you have played the event or you pay money or you don't have it.
That is true for every single event-item.
I haven't seen any event-item, any weapon, console or ship being banned from PvP on the grounds that other players might not have it.
No, but PvP generally allows for all things to be used.
The Winter event on the other hand always had everything disabled, except the special gear from the event itself.
And then, over the years, all sorts of new things were added like new traits and Jem'Hadar and they probably simply forgot to ensure that those were disabled in the event too. I.e., a lot of stuff was added and its effects on some very specific situations weren't fully considered.
As usual, I might add.
I'm sorry, but the moderator already mentioned that the "programmers" have responded that "...this would've required building all new software...", indeed, as you mentioned, it would be easy to solve this problem, adding a new parameter to the list of the validation block, the problem is that we don't know how the validation block handles those internal parameters (if it has one), I personally suspect (or want to think) that the problem is precisely in the validation block, besides having to do everything the "software" (algorithm) again for my evidence a serious structural problem within the code, in other words apparently the code is not as modular as we would like to believe.
In other words, the difference between a well-designed code from the beginning and a badly designed one is like night and day, different and immutable, in the case of "bad design", if you want to modify "night", you have to modify before, the lunar orbit, the atmospheric composition and density, etc., ironically by modifying the orbit or the atmosphere, you would trigger an "avalanche" of chain reactions, which would seriously complicate other aspects, I would like to think that this is the case, a "bad design"…
Except that unless a new player played through some but not all of the halloween event, there's no current way for new someone to get the cat charm, as they always have a delay on puttting items into Mudd's Market.
"This" being disabling the charm only during the race, nothing else.
That's why suggested alternate methods that do not rely on the charms validation block.
When the direct method doesn't work, you approach the problem from another angel.
You don't know the code and neither do I. I only gave them ideas, alternate solutions that would be done in a completely different part of the code, where changes may (or my not) be easier to implement.
But thanks for the very dramatic lesson about modifying night. Although one Data-object being based on another object actually isn't a sigh of bad design.
Actually, "this" being DQing anyone who uses one.
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Update on the Cat Charm and the Winter Event: The patch notes were in error yesterday, the ability to use the cat was not removed from the Winter Event, just its speed boost. This decision may change for next year's event, more conversations need to be had internally.
Powered by TweetShift.com•Today at 00:38
However, they DO plan on possibly tweaking speed boosts for next year's event since this is what mostly spurred on the discourse in the first place.
@foxman00 beat me to it!
Because the speed boost was removed.
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And it is not like you needed the speed boost. You can easy get to all events in the WW without rushing.
Agreed. The frosted boots work just as well, if you're wanting extra speed. It's not like the map is the size of New Romulus. 🤷♀️
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Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful