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Endeavor Rank and Perk System
tarantullah
Member Posts: 13 Arc User
I am relatively new to the game and definitely new to the forums therefore I don't know if this hasn't been discussed before. It probably has been. Nevertheless, In my opinion the endeavor rank system needs to be adjusted for new players. It is definitely discouraging to see how far behind new players are in the endeavor rank comparing to old players and it is basically impossible to ever get close to them. I think the time has come to introduce a chance to get more endeavor perk points daily. It must obviously cost either dilithium or zen to do that but the option needs to be there so that a new player could have any chance of reaching the same rank as an old player. Perhaps re-roll token could reset the endeavor task so it can be done any number of times daily? Perhaps it could be limited to let's say Rank 500? It could be arranged in various ways and it would definitely encourage a new player to take up the challenge and pursuit of ascending in the endeavor rank. Live long and prosper! 
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Well, they have raised the maximum a couple of times already. But for the most part this is correct.
No way I am OK with gimping all of us that already did 3 1/2 years of working maxing it out, by play playing every day.
If you are suggesting that those of us who worked for years to get level 600 should have that effort be wasted by:
**letting you get there faster, with less work and zero cost
OR
**limiting all of us to a lower level of 500 (or even less)
All so that you can catch up, without doing the work that we all did.........NO
I don't care that you feel "behind". That's not my fault, I oppose you making it my problem.
If you want an option to pay your own money to the game, to fast forward to 600, fine. Spend away.
Whales gotta whale.
Nobody really knows what happens to old players
I think the system is in favour of players who play the game on a regular basis.
Pretty sure the largest gains I've personally seen haven't been endeavor rank related (am currently at about 160).
They are a great way to give any player something to shoot for (pun intended) over the long term.
Murdering the game's content is nothing more than practice and making many improvements over time.
I'd focus on the journey versus buying out the journey but that's just me.
If you play the game daily and do your endeavors daily, you will eventually get there and hit max endeavors. The endeavors system is meant to give people something to do and a reward for logging in and playing. If you're as new as you hint at, then you need to worry about getting a build and mastering it before you worry about game balance issues. Because as much as I hate to say it, you've not been around long enough to have enough information on what is balanced and what isn't.
What you're complaining about is essentially coming into a game brand new, and complaining that you're not on par with someone who has been playing this game for years at the time. It's akin to picking up a guitar and playing for a year and expecting to be as good as someone like the late Eddie Van Halen. If you want to get to that same level, you're going to have to put in the work to get there. Simply because a game makes you work for something doesn't make it a bad thing. If you want end game levels of benefit, you're going to have to put in end game levels of work to get to it.
By your own logic I could just as easily ask, who is telling you that you should be allowed to catch up to someone who has been playing since beta in a day? By what logic do you think that should happen? I guarantee I know what would happen if they let you do that. You would get there, then get burnt out because you have everything and have done everything. Then you would be back asking for them to put new stuff out. Even if you specifically don't do it, I've seen it many many times in games that allow that sort of thing.
I'm sitting at around endeavor rank 145 and I've been playing since later 2012 early 2013. I could be maxed out, but I just couldn't make myself do them for the longest time. Now I've been going back and doing them. By playing the game I will get there just as you will. Why should you be allowed to essentially jump the line?
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Welcome to the game and welcome to the forum. That being said, this is just a bad idea on the face of it. This system has been adjusted, though. The level has been increased. Why? Because this is an endgame, veteran player system. I'm not exactly understanding why it should be discouraging for a new player to see "how far behind" they are. It should be encouraging to strive to reach that same level.
Surely you're not suggesting that a new employee to a company with little to no experience should be promoted to CEO within their first 90 days of employment? That's just not how the world works. And it's certainly not how video games work. How boring would it be to be brand new to a game and everything it has to offer is already accomplished and unlocked when you start. What's left to do? Why play?
New players do have a chance of reaching the same rank as old players. Play the game. Live long and prosper? We have. You do the same.
Who's to say? The devs say. Of course this system is in favor of players who started the game years ago. That's how life works. You start today as a novice and in 10 years time you're an expert. Assuming that you stay at it every day, doing, learning, growing over that 10 years. Just like you don't start the game 10 years ago, but walk away and come back 10 years later and expect to be at the same level as your buddy, who did stay that whole time, then demand to be compensated so that you can perform at the same level. You've gotta do the work to reap the reward.
And old players are increasing in number. Because new players become old players. Over time. Put in yours.
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Absolutely not! To be fair, there was no Endeavor system back in the beginning of this game and many players dating back to the beta days (myself included) still don't have their endeavor points maxed out yet. Some players want to brute force power-grind themselves to the top of everything, and that is fine... for them. Others, however, do things in their own time and at their own pace. Why should new players be given special treatment and boosts to their endeavor points to catch up to players who have been playing STO for close to 14 years now? While STO does have one of the best free to play models of any MMO, it is not going to give you everything you want just by making an account. You have to earn things in this game just like any other. There are avenues to get things faster, sure, but you're going to have to pay $ for that like the rest of us do. This game does have several giveaways throughout the course of the year, and yes, you can certainly take advantage of those, but don't come here with the idea the game needs to change... FOR YOU!
You talk about shifting balance, but what you really want is a free ride without the effort the rest of us have put in to get to where we are now. Entitlement much?
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I do agree that the max number of points shouldn't be increased further. The boosts weren't necessary to begin with, constantly extending the system won't improve the game.
I have just reached the half-way point after a few years of playing. It's very slow and can be somewhat tedious. The point of contention is that Cryptic will continue to move the goalposts. This keeps entrenched Players at the Top and keeps new Players at the Bottom - not a very encouraging way to involve or attract new Players. Since sizable portion of a Player's output comes from said Perks, this could have negative impact from a Player perspective. I endorse a reasonable way to help new Players achieve parity. As for those who oppose new Players from becoming competitive, I ask you this: "What, exactly, are you losing? You would still maintain your Level(s) but so would new Players. Is that wrong?"
Here's my solution:
1 - 150: 10K Points
151 - 300: 15K Points
301 - 450: 20K Points (My current standing)
451 - 600: 25K Points
601 - 750: 30K Points
+5K Point accumulation for150 additional Endeavour Perk goals.
The above solution would slow down the Top and allow new Players to achieve a somewhat reasonable level of competitiveness. Currently the max is 750 @ 20K/ Level. However, should Cryptic choose to add additional Perl goals, it should jump to 35K/ Perk Point.
> I understand the OP's point.
>
> I have just reached the half-way point after a few years of playing. It's very slow and can be somewhat tedious. The point of contention is that Cryptic will continue to move the goalposts. This keeps entrenched Players at the Top and keeps new Players at the Bottom - not a very encouraging way to involve or attract new Players. Since sizable portion of a Player's output comes from said Perks, this could have negative impact from a Player perspective. I endorse a reasonable way to help new Players achieve parity. As for those who oppose new Players from becoming competitive, I ask you this: "What, exactly, are you losing? You would still maintain your Level(s) but so would new Players. Is that wrong?"
>
> Here's my solution:
>
> 1 - 150: 10K Points
> 151 - 300: 15K Points
> 301 - 450: 20K Points (My current standing)
> 451 - 600: 25K Points
> 601 - 750: 30K Points
> +5K Point accumulation for150 additional Endeavour Perk goals.
>
> The above solution would slow down the Top and allow new Players to achieve a somewhat reasonable level of competitiveness. Currently the max is 750 @ 20K/ Level. However, should Cryptic choose to add additional Perl goals, it should jump to 35K/ Perk Point.
I do not agree with the OP and do not agree with your characterization that those who oppose this idea are wanting to stop new players from becoming competitive. No one has said that. To get to where veteran players are you need to put the work in whether that is time and/or money.
The only way that your argument would pass falsification is if Cryptic never introduces additional Endeavour Perks. As it stands now, there is no perceivable way for new Players to achieve a fair level of competitiveness. If nothing is done to appease new Players, then STO risks becoming niche and that has its' own perils. No one loses anything, new Players gain, until they achieve a certain Point then they too slow down - as per my Solution, I would need additional Points to advance and I wouldn't even be near the Top.
Competitive? There's not really anything to compete for!
Endeavors were literally added to the game to give veteran, long time players something to work on. This is why Endeavors are not available to low level toons.
Congratulations on your progression achievement. It's to be commended. You've obviously put a lot of time and effort into achieving it. That means something. Giving an easy button to new players diminishes that achievement, though.
Personally, I've been playing since 2012, and though I play every day, I only recently broke 100, because I've not prioritized Endeavors. Because Perk points aren't necessary to play the game. Everything is achievable/doable without them. But should I decide one day to really go for maxing them out, I won't be asking for an easier way of doing it.
And no to slowing progression for those who have achieved the top tiers with Endeavors. There's absolutely no reason to "punish" them for their achievements.
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I admit I've gotten stronger even though I'm a casual who has been playing since 2012, and I've seen how the game has evolved. I was there when we switched from random drops to the Rep System. I was there when it was written.
Here's the thing. There is ALWAYS going to be a disparity between new and veteran players. Why? This is an RPG, not a FPS. Veteran players are naturally going to be stronger than new players. This is a basic fact of any RPG. Even FF14 will have a disparity between new and veteran players. Should those veteran players be punished just because they've been around longer? It makes no sense.
If a game has character growth and stats that improve in ANY way, there is disparity between new and veteran. And 9 times out of 10, that veteran worked hard to get where they are and earned it. There is no fast track to glory. There is no Pay2Win. You want it? You gotta earn it.
By your own logic, what are you losing by not yet having as many endeavor points as someone else? Who are you competing against? What are you missing out on by not having what they do?
STO is already one of the only true free to play games out there. All the others may be free for you to log in and do little bits here or there, but they nickel and dime you for everything and aren't truly free to play. With STO you can play every mission and TFO so there is no locks. There are only 9 ships in this game that I don't own because I don't care to own them. Everything I have as a lifetime player, all the cstore, promo, lockbox and lobi ships, a new player coming in tomorrow could eventually have as well if they work for it.
New players already have a way to get endeavor points that's free, play the game. endeavors are a want in this game and not a necessity. The problem I'm seeing here is you're confusing a want with a necessity. You want the maxed out endeavors, you don't NEED the maxed out endeavors. Endeavors were given as something for people to do and a way to get people to log in daily. If you just started the game last week, why should you expect to be anywhere near the level of someone who has been playing for years? That's like starting to take karate lessons and after 2 weeks expecting to be grandmaster level. It doesn't work that way.
Your "solution" is basically to punish people who have played longer than you because you want to get to their level without as much work. I'm sorry but that's what this screams to me. If Cryptic wants to add something to let people get there faster, then it is what it is. Otherwise it's not needed. You have equality of opportunity to get to the same level as those veteran players that have played longer than you have, yet this "solution" demands equality of outcome for unequal amounts of work. THAT is what I take issue with.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Yes there has. They have only increased the level limit once.
In that vein, I'd love to see them expand on the Secondary Specializations. That's three new ship types and BOFF abilities to experiment with.
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Its already quite easy to get a character from lv 1 to lv 65. Hell you hit 65 BEFORE you hit the Dyson Sphere arc! Hell it gets even easier once you hit lv 52 because of Admiralty unlocking. The only thing that would make it any easier is if they just HAND you a max level character free of charge!
They basically do that with Jem'Hadar. 🤷🏼♀️
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Endeavours are one of the systems that make players build attachment and turns new players into older players. If you make the changes you seem to want you would destroy that attachment building and stop those new players turning into old players.
The devs have made it easier to hit the highest rank and if they make it any easier they defeat the purpose of the ranks.
New players already have it easy compared to the older players so if you want to see the benefit for max rank you need to put in the work.
As I asked above, what are you losing by not having the max rank endeavors at the moment? Who or what are you competing against? What prizes are on the line?
As it sits right now you can hit level 65 faster than you ever could before just by playing the game, especially on a double xp weekend. Get a toon to level 12, pick up some of the unspecified duty officer assignments from the exchange, run them through and you will get to at least level 40 if not higher on a double xp weekend. I've gotten toons to 65 in 4 hours on xp weekends.
With the endeavor ranks, there are xp boosts you can acquire that older players never had, one in the form of the Klngon recruitment toon that they re-run every so often. Something you need to realize, you don't NEED max rank endeavors to succeed and do well in this game. You WANT them, you don't NEED them. You WANT the pretty sparkly box/promo ships to fly around in, you NEED a basic cohesive build. The sparkly ships are just icing on the cake. The game isn't going to suddenly die off purely because you can't get to max level endeavors in a day. The door is already opened to new players in that you have boosts and other items we never.
Also define "need to make adjustments in various places in the game" and what you mean by that. Because I'm going to be blunt with you, your post says to me that you want the benefit of the max endeavor rank and the like, but you don't want to put the work in to get there. You want everything the veteran players have, but you don't want to put in veteran player work to get there. In the time you're spending complaining here, you could easily be out there bettering yourself in game. They could remove endeavors as a whole tomorrow and people could still do well in game. Endeavors are a fun bonus, not a requirement.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
How much easier would you like this game!!?? You can hit level 65 inside 12 hours. DPS required to play Adv TFO's is easy to achieve, and you don't even need the endeavour system for it, we survived for years without it. T6 ships are regularly available for F2P players. Gear is thrown at you relentlessly, and there is nothing you need from lockboxes to be successful. This game is substantially more simpler than it used to be, and the rub-of-it is, you're not being fleeced of your money just to access content or make yourself powerful. Why don't you just ask if you can play the game afk all the time??
At the end of the day, the Endeavour system is there for 'loyal' regular players to further advance themselves, and that's on top of the Reputation and Specialisations. If a game lets you max out too fast, there's nothing to keep you coming back.