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SNW Timeline Uniforms & Alt Future Pike:
captainperkins
Member Posts: 379 Arc User
So Strange New Worlds has given us some good iterations on classic uniforms. I'm reminded of a scene from TOS where Captain Kirk is talking to someone from the past. He says "Can't you see my clothes are made of strange materials?" inferring that the starfleet tunic was made of advanced materials that we couldn't necessarily "see" on screen. Nowadays with the mixed textures and materials in the new starfleet uniforms, it breathes new life in to the classic design.
I can even retcon it in my mind to think TOS just was a low resolution data file, and SNW is a more life like take on the original series. (and I'm a star trek purist.) When the writing is good/better, and there's care given to the intent of the original series, I can be forgiving of minor embellishments and creative license...
Anyways, I think all of us (or most of us) want these. We will pay.
Also, SNW Enterprise bridge may be called for. A chapter taking place in SNW era is undoubtedly underway.
I think Star Trek Online should take initiative and give us a Strange New Worlds timeline version of the Connie Refit, and maybe a Miranda refit.
We undoubtedly will be getting the Farragut from the SNW finale.
A SNW timeline Connie Refit to match Admiral Pike's Movie Era Uniform would be ambitious and maybe forbid by Paramount?
I would love to see what direction SNW design would take the Connie Movie Era Refit...
SNW has already taken parts from the Refit, via the sloped nacelle Pylons, and the azteching on the hull. I wonder what full Movie Era Refit would be like in SNW universe.
I would say the SNW Connie Refit might have the Matt Jeffry's bussard collectors albeit the nacelles would still have that geometric art deco slanted/sharp element, and the dark grill inlays. Definitely the nacelle elements would glow that violet colour from TMP (Star Trek Online USED to have the violet glow on the refit/movie era nacelles, but stopped allowing it for some reason.)
Maybe the slope would be swept back more on an angle and the hull skin would be lighter and the ship generally larger. Of course the beautiful inlaid glowing deflector. The Interior might have a very 1970's original design aesthetic from the motion picture concept art. The interior of the enterprise refit was even more advanced looking in the concept art than it was on screen (as is often the case. But it had a 70's egg chair/organic curves look to it which I could see alternative future Pike rocking.)
I can even retcon it in my mind to think TOS just was a low resolution data file, and SNW is a more life like take on the original series. (and I'm a star trek purist.) When the writing is good/better, and there's care given to the intent of the original series, I can be forgiving of minor embellishments and creative license...
Anyways, I think all of us (or most of us) want these. We will pay.
Also, SNW Enterprise bridge may be called for. A chapter taking place in SNW era is undoubtedly underway.
I think Star Trek Online should take initiative and give us a Strange New Worlds timeline version of the Connie Refit, and maybe a Miranda refit.
We undoubtedly will be getting the Farragut from the SNW finale.
A SNW timeline Connie Refit to match Admiral Pike's Movie Era Uniform would be ambitious and maybe forbid by Paramount?
I would love to see what direction SNW design would take the Connie Movie Era Refit...
SNW has already taken parts from the Refit, via the sloped nacelle Pylons, and the azteching on the hull. I wonder what full Movie Era Refit would be like in SNW universe.
I would say the SNW Connie Refit might have the Matt Jeffry's bussard collectors albeit the nacelles would still have that geometric art deco slanted/sharp element, and the dark grill inlays. Definitely the nacelle elements would glow that violet colour from TMP (Star Trek Online USED to have the violet glow on the refit/movie era nacelles, but stopped allowing it for some reason.)
Maybe the slope would be swept back more on an angle and the hull skin would be lighter and the ship generally larger. Of course the beautiful inlaid glowing deflector. The Interior might have a very 1970's original design aesthetic from the motion picture concept art. The interior of the enterprise refit was even more advanced looking in the concept art than it was on screen (as is often the case. But it had a 70's egg chair/organic curves look to it which I could see alternative future Pike rocking.)
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Seeing the WoK uniform with the SNW details on the shoulders and arms... looks pretty nice.
SNW is Prime timeline, but the episode in question has scenes that happened in possible future timelines that are alternates, not Prime, so even where it is different there is no solid reason to assume that the main timeline changed.
Personally, I dislike the SNW uniforms, both the regular ones and the 'future' ones. The original idea for the TOS uniforms was that they were supposed to be designed to at least look comfortable and (in the story) were made of a shimmering futuristic adaptive fabric that would adapt to various conditions to keep the wearer comfortable.
While the temperature thing was not possible to build into the real-world costume (it was only conveyed by dialog, like beaming down into forty degree (Fahrenheit) weather (about 4.4 degrees Celsius) without adding any sort of jacket), other forms of comfort, like lack of binding while moving one's arms, was accomplished with the raglan sleeves and other details (though they had a variety of cuts since they would trot out older versions to put on extras, and Spock's tunics could not use the raglan shoulders because they needed zippers on them so the top could be put on without knocking his ears off).
Conversely, the SNW uniforms, like DSC uniforms, generally look stiff, heavy, and uncomfortable, and are often shown with jackets over the tunics or the tunics themselves are stiff and jacketlike, with obvious bind lines that form when they move in certain ways.
Also, it is disappointing that they decided to emulate the look of the damaged velour by using that fuzzy wool instead of going back to the shimmer they still had in The Cage, or even going beyond that.
Thanks if anyone knows. I really like the various ship badges, and would be mildly disappointed if they never came back (regardless of whether they were intentional or simply production inconsistencies). At least I can Barbie with them in STO.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Blame TNG and the puffy jackets with pointed shoulders.
It would be nice if they ran both an update of the TOS mesh and the leather boy ones at the same time though, the leather could be the Romulan equivalent of an SS uniform for instance, which would give Romulan society a lot more depth and underline the kind of factionalism that the dialog in Balance of Terror inferred.
For the game I am all for more choices, and the leather boy uniform would be a good addition (and it should be easy enough to do since it seems to be pretty much a variant of the RRF uniform construction wise).
> Shipboard service appears to use the delta, in accordance with the memo from (IIRC) Herb Solow on the topic back in TOS. Starbases use the sunburst seen also in TOS, while the commander of Outpost 4 had something that looked kind of like a sideways delta with lines or something trailing behind it.
Thanks Jon and Rattler for explaining. I am disappointed with the decision, but if they are following the Justman memo and being consistent—I suppose that is the best I really should have hoped for. The decision at least respects the TOS intention of not the execution.
Not the execution? Why would you say that? They only made one mistake (the unknown badge that captain Tracy had in The Omega Glory), which is the incident Justman was chewing Theiss out about in the memo. All of the other badges were correct and identified the division the wearer was assigned to, not a specific ship.
Could also be referring to the later fan developed badges, along with the "official" one that the USS Defiant had in Enterprise, as well as all the ones we have in STO from the TOS era.
But yea... officially Starfleet personnel on ships were meant to have the arrowhead that was fan atributed to Enterprise alone. It didn't help that most of the time we only saw Enterprise personnel only anyways.
True, though the ironic thing about In a Mirror, Darkly is that the "boomerang" symbol they used is the Starfleet insignia for the service itself and is in fact painted on the hull of the Enterprise and presumably every other ship in the fleet (not to mention hanging on the wall in various places in the ship interior and on ground bases).
The reason the symbol is backwards whenever they show the "left" side of the ship is that only the right side of the model is detailed (and the wires for the lights run along the surface in bundles) so they had to flip the film over in the compositor to fake the left side. It was not just an "arrowhead" for the red line running along the secondary hull. AMT followed the onscreen example and made the left side decal a mirror of the right-side decal though technically it should "point" to the line on that side instead of act like an arrowhead like the right side does.
Nah those are way too small to WoW-esque they're not even half the size of his head
Personally I would have loved them to the TOS Romulan uniforms here without any updating and all the 1960s silliness intact to show that Romulans haven't had any major conflict in ages and thus their uniforms are more "what looks good on a parade ground" rather anything you'd want to use for actual work.
That said the SNW incarnation is a good way of showing that also, I'm glad they didn't go with rather understated Nemesis/ENT style uniforms and instead went for something that's rather needlessly flashy.
That's not right. Matt Decker had a different badge
so did Bob Wesley
No, they both had the right badges.
Wesley is wearing the HQ full starflower because he usually flew a desk. He is not the captain of the Lexington (As far as I know of they never named the captain, but a person wearing captain's rings was briefly seen earlier in the episode), he just has his flag on it for the test and is in command of the whole mission. It would have been better (and less misleading) to have had him in a proper flag bridge but apparently the Constitution class does not have one (of course the real reason was probably to avoid the expense of another set for the episode).
Decker on the other hand is wearing the starflower petal (to me it looks more like a pretzel) because, unlike Wesley, he is a field commodore and has direct command of the Constellation. In theory he should also be in command of a squadron, which begs the question of where the other ships are, but that is beside the point.
It could also explain why Constellation was alone, as current it was acting solo and not part of a taskforce.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Constellation_(NCC-1017)
In fact, Memory Alpha also shows that as the "assignment patch", and in the actual article for Assignment Patches... they list several different ones for ships in the 23rd Century, making things a lot more muddy.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Assignment_patch
So far the only on screen thing we have that contradicts assignment patchs in the 23rd Century is Discovery and SNW showing all ship personnel wearing the delta badge.
The problem with that is that it could be applied to any area of the game. And then it can snowball from there. The problem is that you can't fix EVERY bug before adding new things because the second you either fix one thing or add a new thing, there's the potential for a new bug. You get locked into a never ending loop of "we can't add anything until we fix this bug". Its the main reason "bug fixing seasons" with NO content added at all will never fly. A: They need to keep making new things, B: even if you did manage to squash every bug in the game, as soon as something new is added, we may have a new bug, which will have calls for another total shutdown of development until all bugs are addressed, and C: What are the environmental guys or anyone else not tied to the bug team supposed to do during a total bug fix shutdown on new content?
Its a recipe for "maintenance mode" for the game at best, death at worst.
While I agree that some things need to be fixed, I don't believe blocking new things until said fixes are done can ever work in the constantly evovling entity that is an MMO.
True, the "ship badge" thing is probably the number one myth about Star Trek, it is so pervasive that it makes its way into all sorts of places that it shouldn't.
It is a side effect of the "no chickenpluckers", show-don't-tell school of sci-fi writing that Roddenberry was so adamant about in TOS (the lengthy technobabble fests in TNG actually show how his influence was waning while Berman's was on the rise, but that is something for another thread). It was one of the things Roddenberry wanted to do differently, since sci-fi shows of the time were often plagued by excessive (and generally poorly scripted) technobabble trying to explain mostly obvious things to the viewers.
A lot of things (like the insignia structure) were formally defined for TOS, and the episodes were written using those definitions, but since they didn't technobabble about them vewers drew their own conclusions about things which led to a lot of myths and confusions which sometimes made their way into semi-official (and even some official) works later on.
Also, a lot of people missed the clues that are there (especially with the very low resolution broadcast TV had back then) like the fact that the uniforms of regular crew on Exeter (Tracey's ship) and ALL of the Defiant crew who's badges were visible had the delta, the fact that starbase scenes showed a mix of starflower and delta (presumably from other ships) insignias when Enterprise was preparing to leave and so would not have a lot of people on the station, etc, along with the fact that while the dialog in Charlie X did not explicitly state it, it did imply the fact that the Antares was a merchant marine (Starfleet auxiliary) ship instead of a warship.
Here's a close-up I found, also has the TOS version for comparison:
To be fair even SNW happens a good deal before TOS, so assignment badges as replacement Deltas could have been something that happened during TOS and didn't catch on and thus they reverted back to using Deltas for all starfleet personel by TMP.
EDIT:With time travel episodes to the future there's always the "path unwritten" aspect so there could many reasons why the Starfleet of episode 10 of SNW didn't adopt the assignment patches while the "correct timeline" did.
> To be fair even SNW happens a good deal before TOS, so assignment badges as replacement Deltas could have been something that happened during TOS and didn't catch on and thus they reverted back to using Deltas for all starfleet personel by TMP.
>
> EDIT:With time travel episodes to the future there's always the "path unwritten" aspect so there could many reasons why the Starfleet of episode 10 of SNW didn't adopt the assignment patches while the "correct timeline" did.
But they didn’t in TMP either. The epsilon station crew have a unique badge that isn’t a Delta.
From memory Alpha: “Base personnel, like those on Epsilon IX, continued to wear duty badges unique to their assigned base.”
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Epsilon_IX_station
the above are both TOS 2nd season episodes (technically one year or so after Balance of Terror.
In another TOS S1 episode - Court Martial, in the Starbase 11 bar, we see other members of Starfleet in the bar (who are definitely NOT Enterprise crewmembers) with the Starfleet Delta:
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I don't think it is a continuity error at all. Continuity errors in TOS have been exaggerated quite a bit in later years, and most of (though definitely not all of) the supposed errors are actually based on myths, digging into background material often turns up the real reason they did what they did in the series and what it was supposed to represent, but the people who prefer the myths dismiss any behind the scenes information out of hand, so the myths persist.
In TOS they only showed one station that wasn't part of a starbase, K7, which was a civilian station under the management of mister Lurry and it was probably under the auspices of whatever they called their colonial bureau.
I suspect the Epsilon station is likewise not a Starfleet facility, but rather a Federation civilian intelligence agency facility considering that in the real-world that is pretty much the norm (for instance, in the US intelligence community that kind of thing is handled by the NSA), so they would not use Starfleet divisional insignia.
On the other hand, the Romulan Neutral Zone picket stations had Starfleet crews since they are military pickets looking for enemy ships trying to slip through into Federation space and so any deep intelligence monitoring/analysis they might also
engage in would most likely just be a sideshow to the defensive early warning primary mission (and probably handled by imbedded intelligence people anyway). And since the crews of those picket stations actually were Starfleet they use the Starfleet Outpost Division insignia.
Even if that was not the case, TNG shows that sometime between TAS and TNG Starfleet apparently dropped the divisional insignia and just went with the delta for everyone so any differences between TOS insignia and that of later eras would not automatically be continuity errors.