So took a hit for the team, and purchased 1000 phoenix boxes just now to share this(for science), so far am NOT actually impressed.
I got 150 URares but no epics. The URare rewards are 'effectively' what the very rare rewards were. As for the less valuable VRare and Rares.
I got 486 Rares
364 VRares
150 URares
0 Epics
Thats across 1000 boxes. This is very unfortunate, since URares are really just the old VRares and current VRares are just Rares, with rares having rewards from uncommon and some of the rare table but not all, I cannot help but say this isn't really much of an improvement. The odds of better results doesn't really feel improved at all, I mean I didn't get a single epic in a batch of 1000.
So to cryptic: This doesn't feel like an improvement. Yeah you were right in effectively removing the old URare table since we only used it for Experimental tokens, and considered it's ships useless especially since yeah, only good for admiralty. But theres still no point to opening boxes for Epics, it's still for well phoenix upgrades and the rare purchase for other things.
URare is what effectively very rare used to be. Very rare is what Rare used to be. Rare is just uncommon with some extras from rare.
And Epic is still ludicrously rare to a point theres no point in opening for it.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
NEWS FLASH! The dill sink idea was not after the patch but before the patch! As many people including myself spent most of their dils on upgrades and ships on the phoneix boxes before they were removed, and this last minute dil vanity shield event(which I made a post few days ago) is a great scheme for encouraging ppl to buy zen for dil
So took a hit for the team, and purchased 1000 phoenix boxes just now to share this(for science), so far am NOT actually impressed.
I got 150 URares but no epics. The URare rewards are 'effectively' what the very rare rewards were. As for the less valuable VRare and Rares.
I got 486 Rares
364 VRares
150 URares
0 Epics
Thats across 1000 boxes. This is very unfortunate, since URares are really just the old VRares and current VRares are just Rares, with rares having rewards from uncommon and some of the rare table but not all, I cannot help but say this isn't really much of an improvement. The odds of better results doesn't really feel improved at all, I mean I didn't get a single epic in a batch of 1000.
So to cryptic: This doesn't feel like an improvement. Yeah you were right in effectively removing the old URare table since we only used it for Experimental tokens, and considered it's ships useless especially since yeah, only good for admiralty. But theres still no point to opening boxes for Epics, it's still for well phoenix upgrades and the rare purchase for other things.
URare is what effectively very rare used to be. Very rare is what Rare used to be. Rare is just uncommon with some extras from rare.
And Epic is still ludicrously rare to a point theres no point in opening for it.
Yeah in the past I opened over 2000 boxes without getting a single Epic.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Decided to take a hit for the team, opened 1000 boxes so you wouldn't have to:
I got the following results:
486 Rares (basically uncommon and some rare rewards in same menu)
364 Very Rares (Some rare rewards and old Very rare rewards)
150 Ultra Rares (some very rare rewards and..... ..... ..... um, so whats the difference between this and very rare of before?)
0 Epics
Yeah, zero epics. So no point in opening the boxes other than for upgrades just as before.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Decided to take a hit for the team, opened 1000 boxes so you wouldn't have to:
I got the following results:
486 Rares (basically uncommon and some rare rewards in same menu)
364 Very Rares (Some rare rewards and old Very rare rewards)
150 Ultra Rares (some very rare rewards and..... ..... ..... um, so whats the difference between this and very rare of before?)
0 Epics
Yeah, zero epics. So no point in opening the boxes other than for upgrades just as before.
That is pretty much what they said in the announcement, and some of the dev comments on Twitter.
What they are actually doing is making minor changes to the probability curves to make essentially the same thing look a little better without causing much of an actual change, and getting rid of the old VR tier which was unexpectedly (to them anyway) mostly being used to break down into greens for more upgrades than they anticipated per box.
They were fairly upfront about it being mostly to reduce the gap between phoenix upgrades and the high end of the crafted upgrades and to also address some of the long term complaints as a secondary consideration.
You could say that a Legendary Ship with experimental upgrade token is a T7 ship.
You can, sure. But you would still be wrong.
The difference between a T6X Legendary and a standard Fleet T6X are no where near enough to consider them an entirely different tier.
Yeah because its not a T7. That doesn't change the fact that each Legendary ship is a stronger performer then the Fleet Version of it. How much better is obviously a matter on what you can make out of it.
Fleet version of itself, yes, in many cases. But that is not what I said.
What I said is that they are not qualitatively different/superior from fleet-T6 ships in general. And that is true.
For example... while yes the Defiant was changed from a 4/3/X escort build to a 5/3 warship build, there are other (non-Legendary) ships with the 5/3 warship build.
Either you see the entire performance of a ship or you don't I don't do apples and oranges. There is no ship like the Warship Defiant with Pilot Maneuvering 5/3. In fact there is only the Undine Cheirax Bio-Warship what has the name Warship and has full Pilot Maneuvering.
But I'm going to stop here because it has nothing to do with the topic at hand and do not want to hijack the this thread. Also our values in regards of starship is fundamentally different so I don't think there will be a conclusion to this. And you can tell me 50 more times how I'm wrong but honestly I'm only wrong in your opinion and you have yet to say anything what would convince me otherwise.
Because you are looking at (some of) the capabilities of one specific ship and saying they are without an exact match. And while yes, that is true, those capabilities are still within the range of general capabilities represented by other ships.
Does it have more weapons than a fleet-T6 ship would have? No.
Does it have more consoles than a fleet-T6 ship would have? No.
Does it have more BOFF abilities than a fleet-T6 ship would have? No.
Does it have more spec access than a fleet-T6 ship would have? No (in some cases).
(and yes there are other ships, with full pilot manuevering.)
Does it have radically higher hull/shield modifiers?... and so on.
The exact configuration may be unique, and there may be advantages to that, but that does not make it an entirely different tier.
We are going off topic. But it reminds me of the old T5X is = to T6 arguments.
The only reason we ever got new tiers was because Cryptic wanted to re sell the same ships.
The only reason we got legendary versions is because Cryptic wanted to re sell the same ships >.<
We can argue "value" and say ya they only have a little bit more hull/shield. Ya they only have slightly better layouts... the traits are just normal T6 level traits. Ect ect. But the bottom line is Cryptic is once again selling us the same ships we have bought in some cases 2 or 3 times already. Sure some legendries are only slightly better... others are obviously a lot better. Again the most recent example with the Bug ship... I mean not only does it have the wingman mechanic, its also full pilot spec with pilot maneuvers. Its promo ship level... which is probably also why its a little more palatable to most players. I mean its promo box level on the Zen store. Its less offensive the obvious T5-T6 double dip was. However that is only because Cryptic realized 1) people would not accept T7 and 2) they didn't have to make the ships >>> to sell them again... > would suffice.
Well, they botched the conversion, old VR tokens are not converting to new UR tokens like the announcement said they would for some people (the first character I logged in with today has that problem for instance, and changing maps did nothing to solve it so it is apparently not just the database being slow and needing a nudge from the map change).
All over I'm ok with this however it will do nothing for the Dillithium Zen Exchange.
I disagree, I think it will help. From May 4th when the change was announced, the previous night the backlog was at 5.8m and today it's down to 3.8m; I suspect perhaps from the Dil Vanity Shield as well.
I do however think while the Phoenix changes will have a positive impact, I figure it's more a slow and steady kind of change at least initially. I say that because if people have a lot of the older Upgrades they will use them first, yet moving forward they can't also be purchased any longer.
So unless people are willing to downgrade all their Ultra tokens, they will see about 50% less upgrades generated; if they do downgrade all they still receive the same #, yet offer 25% less Tech Points. However you're giving up your # of upgrades, or possibly earning far less T6x upgrades encouraging more to be sold. Still this was a necessary change!
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I still thought upgrading Tier III Fleet Holdings out to Tier IV be far easier, they could also do 1 every 1-2 years over 10 years. It also wouldn't require the work for a new holding, so could be done with just fewer updates to maps, and offer a few new things to get at said Holdings too.
So let me guess, there'll be a better upgrade token coming soon in the Infinity Lockox?.........
I think they'll likely never offer an upgrade, as everyone would trade up to earn Epic, they'd also start at Ultra, then Very Rare as those require less.
Still try to see the positive, they slightly increased the chance of Epic dropping.
All over I'm ok with this however it will do nothing for the Dillithium Zen Exchange.
I disagree, I think it will help. From May 4th when the change was announced, the previous night the backlog was at 5.8m and today it's down to 3.8m; I suspect perhaps from the Dil Vanity Shield as well.
I do however think while the Phoenix changes will have a positive impact, I figure it's more a slow and steady kind of change at least initially. I say that because if people have a lot of the older Upgrades they will use them first, yet moving forward they can't also be purchased any longer.
So unless people are willing to downgrade all their Ultra tokens, they will see about 50% less upgrades generated; if they do downgrade all they still receive the same #, yet offer 25% less Tech Points. However you're giving up your # of upgrades, or possibly earning far less T6x upgrades encouraging more to be sold.
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I still thought upgrading Tier III Fleet Holdings out to Tier IV be far easier, they could also do 1 every 1-2 years over 10 years. It also wouldn't require the work for a new holding, so could be done with just fewer updates to maps, and offer a few new things to get at said Holdings too.
That is true however it was to buy yesterdays last phoenix tokens to get the better upgrades. A 1 day thing and maybe just maybe the Vanity Shields get it a bid down however its not doing anything on a long term, not by itself. We still need more things to use Dillithium on.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
You nerfed the only two worthwhile things from the phoenix prize pack and if there was an actual increase to the drop rates it was almost nothing that will require a couple hundred boxes to notice so instead of actually making dilithium worth its zen price or increasing the per zen cap you decide to exploit the people that were actually buying dilithium for upgrades or ship upgrades so now they have to spend more zen. Thanks..
So, basically, nothing changed drop-rate-wise, to no-one's surprise.
I guess the changes were like "We doubled the rate! So instead of 0.1%, we increased it to a whooping 0.2%!"
I have seen more Epic announcements than I previously had. Still I realize it may sometimes take 500, 1000, to possible 1500+ boxes depending how lucky you are. A few get lucky opening maybe 100-200, while that's extremely rare I admit!
Note: The only thing I've never liked about Phoenix, is having to right click and select; use each and every time. I wish they had a popup to open another one, simply as that speed up opening large quantities!
As for Epic drop chance, it's not a significant increase; still it is something very appreciative!
I try to take the small wins! I think also making Ultra drop more than previous, makes T6x Upgrades more accessible even at a cost of 5 for 1. You can also trade in Very Rare, or Rare too; but your # of Phoenix Upgrades get cut by 50% or less, depending how many you use rather than downgrade now.
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Still that's not unfair, just everyone needs to decide what their focus is!
And helping the DZE out, does benefit New Players! As for the Player who posted (above) also realize, everyone is giving up a little something. Yet people buying DIL have been getting extremely amazing (500:1) rates for 2+ years; far more DIL than they would have seen 5-9 years ago. Also Everyone is giving up a little something... ...so I end as the paragraph, it isn't so bad!
Still I'd prefer if they had instead (every 1-2 years) expanded one Fleet Holding from Tier III, out to Tier IV; I still think that would be a better balancing force for the DZE. It also could be done far faster, with only minor map updates verse a new Holding; and also expand options to purchase at each.
Hate to burst that bubble, but droprates are basicaly the same, with the difference of a missing tier + moving lower than epic tiers up a tier. I've opened a stack of boxes and at the first glance (i cant say for sure, ofc), the droprates are the same as before, only the color is now different. Would be the same if they moved the t6 ships from epic to UR, removed the t5 in UR tab (as they already did) and just put more valuable stuff into epic (whatever that might be).
I had some time to think about the thing and it seems the overal changes are good for the economy, even tho the implementation of it doesn't always make sense (removing a tier of tokens and removing t5 ships is an odd decision, i don't understand the reasoning behind it - if there is any). We bashed them quite a bit for the upgrade token nerf, but noone noticed the fact, how cheap the aquisiton of t6x tokens (primary a c-store item) has become. As someone with a decent number of ships, i welcome the change, as now i can get a t6x by just buying cca 30 phoenix boxes (more or less, depends on luck). That's just a bit over 200 zen at current exchange rate and you're also left with a bunch of "bonus" phoenix tokens for other stuff.
I disagree, they aren't significant and I'm not saying they are 0.1% (as a long suspected value many assume) they may have increased to perhaps 0.11-0.15% yet, the person I quoted thought maybe 0.1% to 0.2% again these are only examples! Still your chances on the first, are exactly the same on your 1000th attempt, it all comes down to luck.
If you want to make some assumed drop chances, if you trust this site see how the probability increases less and less the more you open; it does increase for sure the more you open, yet grows far slower than most suspect--cause it's in the math. I'm not saying to trust this site in your browser either, yet it helps many understand the math.
Note: You can also use that formulae in Excel, or a Spreadsheet to do it yourself!
When they say they have increased the drop chances, I do believe them!
Yet were all assuming what the drop chance rates are based on observations; as we don't have the data. And opening 1,000 boxes is not a great indicator either; is it a unlucky streak? I opened maybe 150 boxes 2 days ago, saving DIL on several characters for quite awhile, before these changes took effect and got 1 Epic Token; is that very rare yes it is! That was before they slightly increased drop chances, as I was opening them to get more Classic Phoenix Upgrades. Still I'm always very surprised when I do get them, sometimes I've had long dry spells too! Everyone does...
The night before the change I bought 150 Phoenix Packs. I got 1 Epic and 1 UR. I also got quite a few VR. All told 89 Uncommon and the rest of the 148 were VR and Rare, with a goodly proportion VR. Almost seemed like the odds were already better. My free one last night was a UR.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So took a hit for the team, and purchased 1000 phoenix boxes just now to share this(for science), so far am NOT actually impressed.
I got 150 URares but no epics. The URare rewards are 'effectively' what the very rare rewards were. As for the less valuable VRare and Rares.
I got 486 Rares
364 VRares
150 URares
0 Epics
Thats across 1000 boxes. This is very unfortunate, since URares are really just the old VRares and current VRares are just Rares, with rares having rewards from uncommon and some of the rare table but not all, I cannot help but say this isn't really much of an improvement. The odds of better results doesn't really feel improved at all, I mean I didn't get a single epic in a batch of 1000.
So to cryptic: This doesn't feel like an improvement. Yeah you were right in effectively removing the old URare table since we only used it for Experimental tokens, and considered it's ships useless especially since yeah, only good for admiralty. But theres still no point to opening boxes for Epics, it's still for well phoenix upgrades and the rare purchase for other things.
URare is what effectively very rare used to be. Very rare is what Rare used to be. Rare is just uncommon with some extras from rare.
And Epic is still ludicrously rare to a point theres no point in opening for it.
I too took a slice out of the dilex to open a 1000...
I am not sure if you saw it, but you might want to add your data to a group project to share this data (for science)
Reddit post ... /r/sto/comments/uj2lgg/new_drop_rates_of_phoenix_pack_data_projectresults is where folks are posting their data, and it has a link to a spreadsheet tallying the results of what has been reported/observed.
I am not a fan of this change, it's come too late in the day to really affect anyone other than newer players (not me), who have also been screwed by the rep dil nerf.
To feel like you even belong in TFOs with established players realistically you need phoenix upgrades to get gear to XV, because the upgrades that cost dil to use in this game are appallingly bad value to use. Why not fix that?
And by the same logic in reverse, why remove the old T5s? An established player can make perfectly good use of the Bulwark in most every TFO, we all know this game is about the character first and then the equipment as extension.. the argument to remove these ships is specious.
As for the effect on the Dilex, as others have said the biggest impact is the one we've already seen when people bought up "classic" phoenix upgrades while they still could. The effect from here on in is likely to be small at best and will not sort the underlying reason, which is that there is not enough worthwhile use for dil in the game vs zen. And I don't see at this late stage what motivation Cryptic really have for changing that.
> @foppotee#4552 said: > Cryptic could place the previous Ultra Rare starships in the Shipyard with the others that we can buy per character using dilithium.
And by the same logic in reverse, why remove the old T5s? An established player can make perfectly good use of the Bulwark in most every TFO, we all know this game is about the character first and then the equipment as extension.. the argument to remove these ships is specious.
You're going to have to forgive my ignorance, but I did a double-take due to my unfamiliarity with the word "specious."
I can see now that the ship upgrades are more accessible in total, however i still hoped when the times come to revisit the phoenix box cryptic add more useful things, this is why i kept some tokens, which are now meh, whatever.
I still don't see obstacle to add more ships, maybe some very good ones, just give them proper token prize - there could be the 1x category, the 3x category, the 5x category and the 10x category. I don't know what the math is, its probably cheaper to buy the zen with dill with these numbers, but someone could do the math and come with something reasonable.
The night before the Chang we I bought 150 Phoenix Packs. I got 1 Epic and 1 UR. I also got quite a few VR. All told 89 Uncommon and the rest of the 148 were VR and Rare, with a goodly proportion VR. Almost seemed like the odds were already better. My free one last night was a UR.
I said I got 1 Epic, in the 160 or so I opened the night before the change; what I hadn't said it like you I also got at least 1 Ultra too. Your experience was very similar to mine, still I think we were on the luckier side. I recall the guy who opened 1,000 and got no Epic's, and yet I suspect even after the change you may sometimes still need +1,500 or far more; it just comes down to luck--we all have some long gap's in earning Epic's as well.
Still I have seen them dropping a bit more, with more Epic notifications; it's not significant yet it's noticeable for sure!
I can see now that the ship upgrades are more accessible in total, however i still hoped when the times come to revisit the phoenix box cryptic add more useful things, this is why i kept some tokens, which are now meh, whatever.
I still don't see obstacle to add more ships, maybe some very good ones, just give them proper token prize - there could be the 1x category, the 3x category, the 5x category and the 10x category. I don't know what the math is, its probably cheaper to buy the zen with dill with these numbers, but someone could do the math and come with something reasonable.
Yea I suspect if they do add a T6 Lockbox Ship that was previously in Mudd's, it might also cost more than 1 Epic token for sure. I don't know they'll go as high as 5 yet they easily could too, to encourage longer term viability. Still we'll have to wait 6 months or so to see what other options might be coming...
Understand, I dislike not having a popup that I can click very fast repeatedly in one place. On average right now that little right, then down, then up & left I find at best can open 1s every second or slightly faster, sometimes over compensate and maybe 1.25s. If I didn't have to move the mouse maybe .5s fairly consistently, not saying it's horrible either. Anyways up early today, and got a few things to do; maybe get on early this afternoon.
Still on your other point, your correct it could be possible they are opening more; I mean that was the goal too of the changes. Still I do believe they increased the drop rate slightly, and think that's the biggest thing were noticing mostly, but could fairly be a combo of both.
The question is you guys are changing the Phoenix lock box and one of the changes you're getting rid of the T5 ships that are in there the question I have is some of these T5 ships have specific gear pieces on them only obtainable through that ship in that ship alone what is going to happen to those pieces of gear and I ask this because for 2 years now almost every day opening in Phoenix lock boxes at least ten box's I have been trying to get the Solanee overcharged warp core from one of the T5 ships obtainable only through the Phoenix lock box so with you getting rid of that what's going to happen to that item because there is also others in there that are the same way so people are going to be losing out on those specific items so what's going to happen because 2 years worth of waiting with one Nerf I don't know if it's worth playing this game anymore so can you please give more info on exactly what's getting taken out and what's being added so we know
The question is you guys are changing the Phoenix lock box and one of the changes you're getting rid of the T5 ships that are in there, the question I have is some of these T5 ships have specific gear pieces on them only obtainable through that ship in that ship alone, what is going to happen to those pieces of gear? I ask this because for 2 years now almost every day opening in Phoenix lock boxes, at least ten box's, I have been trying to get the Solanee overcharged warp core from one of the T5 ships obtainable only through the Phoenix lock box. With you getting rid of that what's going to happen to that item? There is also others in there that are the same way, so people are going to be losing out on those specific items, so what's going to happen? Because 2 years worth of waiting with one Nerf I don't know if it's worth playing this game anymore, so can you please give more info on exactly what's getting taken out and what's being added so we know.
First of all, please learn to use punctuation, I've edited your post in the quote box a bit to make it easier to read. Second, as the devs stated in their livestream last week most (possibly all but one?) of the old T5 Phoenix ships are now available as a T6, and the T6 versions include the old T5 stuff. When it comes to Phoenix, Lobi, Lockbox, and Promo ships they normally phase out T5s when T6s are made, they just hadn't gotten to it until now with the Phoenix ships. So if you want a console or other item from one of those old T5s you'll need to get an Epic token and use it on the T6 now.
As for your specific goal of obtaining the Solanae warp core, the ships that have it are currently in the Lobi store for 600 Lobi.
Comments
I got 150 URares but no epics. The URare rewards are 'effectively' what the very rare rewards were. As for the less valuable VRare and Rares.
I got 486 Rares
364 VRares
150 URares
0 Epics
Thats across 1000 boxes. This is very unfortunate, since URares are really just the old VRares and current VRares are just Rares, with rares having rewards from uncommon and some of the rare table but not all, I cannot help but say this isn't really much of an improvement. The odds of better results doesn't really feel improved at all, I mean I didn't get a single epic in a batch of 1000.
So to cryptic: This doesn't feel like an improvement. Yeah you were right in effectively removing the old URare table since we only used it for Experimental tokens, and considered it's ships useless especially since yeah, only good for admiralty. But theres still no point to opening boxes for Epics, it's still for well phoenix upgrades and the rare purchase for other things.
URare is what effectively very rare used to be. Very rare is what Rare used to be. Rare is just uncommon with some extras from rare.
And Epic is still ludicrously rare to a point theres no point in opening for it.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Yeah in the past I opened over 2000 boxes without getting a single Epic.
I got the following results:
486 Rares (basically uncommon and some rare rewards in same menu)
364 Very Rares (Some rare rewards and old Very rare rewards)
150 Ultra Rares (some very rare rewards and..... ..... ..... um, so whats the difference between this and very rare of before?)
0 Epics
Yeah, zero epics. So no point in opening the boxes other than for upgrades just as before.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
That is pretty much what they said in the announcement, and some of the dev comments on Twitter.
What they are actually doing is making minor changes to the probability curves to make essentially the same thing look a little better without causing much of an actual change, and getting rid of the old VR tier which was unexpectedly (to them anyway) mostly being used to break down into greens for more upgrades than they anticipated per box.
They were fairly upfront about it being mostly to reduce the gap between phoenix upgrades and the high end of the crafted upgrades and to also address some of the long term complaints as a secondary consideration.
I guess the changes were like "We doubled the rate! So instead of 0.1%, we increased it to a whooping 0.2%!"
We are going off topic. But it reminds me of the old T5X is = to T6 arguments.
The only reason we ever got new tiers was because Cryptic wanted to re sell the same ships.
The only reason we got legendary versions is because Cryptic wanted to re sell the same ships >.<
We can argue "value" and say ya they only have a little bit more hull/shield. Ya they only have slightly better layouts... the traits are just normal T6 level traits. Ect ect. But the bottom line is Cryptic is once again selling us the same ships we have bought in some cases 2 or 3 times already. Sure some legendries are only slightly better... others are obviously a lot better. Again the most recent example with the Bug ship... I mean not only does it have the wingman mechanic, its also full pilot spec with pilot maneuvers. Its promo ship level... which is probably also why its a little more palatable to most players. I mean its promo box level on the Zen store. Its less offensive the obvious T5-T6 double dip was. However that is only because Cryptic realized 1) people would not accept T7 and 2) they didn't have to make the ships >>> to sell them again... > would suffice.
I disagree, I think it will help. From May 4th when the change was announced, the previous night the backlog was at 5.8m and today it's down to 3.8m; I suspect perhaps from the Dil Vanity Shield as well.
I do however think while the Phoenix changes will have a positive impact, I figure it's more a slow and steady kind of change at least initially. I say that because if people have a lot of the older Upgrades they will use them first, yet moving forward they can't also be purchased any longer.
So unless people are willing to downgrade all their Ultra tokens, they will see about 50% less upgrades generated; if they do downgrade all they still receive the same #, yet offer 25% less Tech Points. However you're giving up your # of upgrades, or possibly earning far less T6x upgrades encouraging more to be sold. Still this was a necessary change!
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I still thought upgrading Tier III Fleet Holdings out to Tier IV be far easier, they could also do 1 every 1-2 years over 10 years. It also wouldn't require the work for a new holding, so could be done with just fewer updates to maps, and offer a few new things to get at said Holdings too.
I think they'll likely never offer an upgrade, as everyone would trade up to earn Epic, they'd also start at Ultra, then Very Rare as those require less.
Still try to see the positive, they slightly increased the chance of Epic dropping.
That is true however it was to buy yesterdays last phoenix tokens to get the better upgrades. A 1 day thing and maybe just maybe the Vanity Shields get it a bid down however its not doing anything on a long term, not by itself. We still need more things to use Dillithium on.
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I have seen more Epic announcements than I previously had. Still I realize it may sometimes take 500, 1000, to possible 1500+ boxes depending how lucky you are. A few get lucky opening maybe 100-200, while that's extremely rare I admit!
Note: The only thing I've never liked about Phoenix, is having to right click and select; use each and every time. I wish they had a popup to open another one, simply as that speed up opening large quantities!
As for Epic drop chance, it's not a significant increase; still it is something very appreciative!
I try to take the small wins! I think also making Ultra drop more than previous, makes T6x Upgrades more accessible even at a cost of 5 for 1. You can also trade in Very Rare, or Rare too; but your # of Phoenix Upgrades get cut by 50% or less, depending how many you use rather than downgrade now.
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Still that's not unfair, just everyone needs to decide what their focus is!
And helping the DZE out, does benefit New Players! As for the Player who posted (above) also realize, everyone is giving up a little something. Yet people buying DIL have been getting extremely amazing (500:1) rates for 2+ years; far more DIL than they would have seen 5-9 years ago. Also Everyone is giving up a little something... ...so I end as the paragraph, it isn't so bad!
Still I'd prefer if they had instead (every 1-2 years) expanded one Fleet Holding from Tier III, out to Tier IV; I still think that would be a better balancing force for the DZE. It also could be done far faster, with only minor map updates verse a new Holding; and also expand options to purchase at each.
I had some time to think about the thing and it seems the overal changes are good for the economy, even tho the implementation of it doesn't always make sense (removing a tier of tokens and removing t5 ships is an odd decision, i don't understand the reasoning behind it - if there is any). We bashed them quite a bit for the upgrade token nerf, but noone noticed the fact, how cheap the aquisiton of t6x tokens (primary a c-store item) has become. As someone with a decent number of ships, i welcome the change, as now i can get a t6x by just buying cca 30 phoenix boxes (more or less, depends on luck). That's just a bit over 200 zen at current exchange rate and you're also left with a bunch of "bonus" phoenix tokens for other stuff.
If you want to make some assumed drop chances, if you trust this site see how the probability increases less and less the more you open; it does increase for sure the more you open, yet grows far slower than most suspect--cause it's in the math. I'm not saying to trust this site in your browser either, yet it helps many understand the math.
Note: You can also use that formulae in Excel, or a Spreadsheet to do it yourself!
https://engadget.com/2010-01-13-drop-chance-probability.html?
When they say they have increased the drop chances, I do believe them!
Yet were all assuming what the drop chance rates are based on observations; as we don't have the data. And opening 1,000 boxes is not a great indicator either; is it a unlucky streak? I opened maybe 150 boxes 2 days ago, saving DIL on several characters for quite awhile, before these changes took effect and got 1 Epic Token; is that very rare yes it is! That was before they slightly increased drop chances, as I was opening them to get more Classic Phoenix Upgrades. Still I'm always very surprised when I do get them, sometimes I've had long dry spells too! Everyone does...
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I too took a slice out of the dilex to open a 1000...
I am not sure if you saw it, but you might want to add your data to a group project to share this data (for science)
Reddit post ... /r/sto/comments/uj2lgg/new_drop_rates_of_phoenix_pack_data_projectresults is where folks are posting their data, and it has a link to a spreadsheet tallying the results of what has been reported/observed.
To feel like you even belong in TFOs with established players realistically you need phoenix upgrades to get gear to XV, because the upgrades that cost dil to use in this game are appallingly bad value to use. Why not fix that?
And by the same logic in reverse, why remove the old T5s? An established player can make perfectly good use of the Bulwark in most every TFO, we all know this game is about the character first and then the equipment as extension.. the argument to remove these ships is specious.
As for the effect on the Dilex, as others have said the biggest impact is the one we've already seen when people bought up "classic" phoenix upgrades while they still could. The effect from here on in is likely to be small at best and will not sort the underlying reason, which is that there is not enough worthwhile use for dil in the game vs zen. And I don't see at this late stage what motivation Cryptic really have for changing that.
> Cryptic could place the previous Ultra Rare starships in the Shipyard with the others that we can buy per character using dilithium.
I agree with this.
You're going to have to forgive my ignorance, but I did a double-take due to my unfamiliarity with the word "specious."
I still don't see obstacle to add more ships, maybe some very good ones, just give them proper token prize - there could be the 1x category, the 3x category, the 5x category and the 10x category. I don't know what the math is, its probably cheaper to buy the zen with dill with these numbers, but someone could do the math and come with something reasonable.
I said I got 1 Epic, in the 160 or so I opened the night before the change; what I hadn't said it like you I also got at least 1 Ultra too. Your experience was very similar to mine, still I think we were on the luckier side. I recall the guy who opened 1,000 and got no Epic's, and yet I suspect even after the change you may sometimes still need +1,500 or far more; it just comes down to luck--we all have some long gap's in earning Epic's as well.
Still I have seen them dropping a bit more, with more Epic notifications; it's not significant yet it's noticeable for sure!
Yea I suspect if they do add a T6 Lockbox Ship that was previously in Mudd's, it might also cost more than 1 Epic token for sure. I don't know they'll go as high as 5 yet they easily could too, to encourage longer term viability. Still we'll have to wait 6 months or so to see what other options might be coming...
Good day!
Understand, I dislike not having a popup that I can click very fast repeatedly in one place. On average right now that little right, then down, then up & left I find at best can open 1s every second or slightly faster, sometimes over compensate and maybe 1.25s. If I didn't have to move the mouse maybe .5s fairly consistently, not saying it's horrible either. Anyways up early today, and got a few things to do; maybe get on early this afternoon.
Still on your other point, your correct it could be possible they are opening more; I mean that was the goal too of the changes. Still I do believe they increased the drop rate slightly, and think that's the biggest thing were noticing mostly, but could fairly be a combo of both.
First of all, please learn to use punctuation, I've edited your post in the quote box a bit to make it easier to read. Second, as the devs stated in their livestream last week most (possibly all but one?) of the old T5 Phoenix ships are now available as a T6, and the T6 versions include the old T5 stuff. When it comes to Phoenix, Lobi, Lockbox, and Promo ships they normally phase out T5s when T6s are made, they just hadn't gotten to it until now with the Phoenix ships. So if you want a console or other item from one of those old T5s you'll need to get an Epic token and use it on the T6 now.
As for your specific goal of obtaining the Solanae warp core, the ships that have it are currently in the Lobi store for 600 Lobi.