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Legendary Jem'Hadar Vanguard Pilot Attack Ship [T6] and Legendary Dominion Captain's Bundle

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    I care less about the leveling package and more so about the ship, the Kar'takin and the Weyoun BOff. If the latter two aren't account claimable... Eh.

    The weapons and the boff are in a box that is inside of the leveling package that can only be opened on one Jem'Hadar-only character. So if you buy the legendary package and open it on anything but a horneytoad all you get is the ship and an unopenable, untransferable box, apparently, and even when opened by a J'H only the ship is account-wide.

    That or the announcement is so poorly written that it gives the wrong impression, which I would not put past them at this point considering how iffy their proofreading has been so far.

    If it's anything like previous legendary leveling bundles, you will only be able to buy the bundle on the correct type of captain, and the box 'with all the things' will be character bound, so that outcome isn't even possible -- it'll require you be on a Jem captain to buy, so all the character-bound stuff can only be given to a Jem captain. The ship will unlock separately.

    Wow, that is even worse if it requires a horneytoad just to buy the thing in the first place, even if one is willing to spend that much to get just the ship. For some that would mean having to buy a slot to make a captain they don't want and won't play to make the purchase of the ship (for the other character on the account) and a package they will never use. Absolutely brilliant...

    Every other legendary ship package could be purchased for a set of races (including 'alien' which widens out the possibilities even further) because there are at least several races in all of the other factions, but there is no variety whatsoever in the faction that this package is locked to, and that makes a tremendous difference from the others.
  • wbaker256#3172 wbaker256 Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    I've got my hopes that the Kar'takin and the Weyoun BOff are account unlocks. The Projected Stasis Beam console that came with the Legendary D7 Boost was.
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    It is rather strange that, after removing ship restrictions and allowing players to fly basically any ship, they're now imposing new restrictions. Boffs have also increasingly become cross-faction usable; everyone can get Jem'Hadar, Romulan and Cardassian ones for example.

    Combined with the fact that Jem'Hadar already start at level 60, all of this really gives of the impression that they didn't really think this through.

    Some of the stuff just isn't useful for Jem'Hadar characters, lots of things would be much more interesting if they could be used on all toons.

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  • edited April 2022
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 5,051 Arc User
    I care less about the leveling package and more so about the ship, the Kar'takin and the Weyoun BOff. If the latter two aren't account claimable... Eh.

    The weapons and the boff are in a box that is inside of the leveling package that can only be opened on one Jem'Hadar-only character. So if you buy the legendary package and open it on anything but a horneytoad all you get is the ship and an unopenable, untransferable box, apparently, and even when opened by a J'H only the ship is account-wide.

    That or the announcement is so poorly written that it gives the wrong impression, which I would not put past them at this point considering how iffy their proofreading has been so far.

    If it's anything like previous legendary leveling bundles, you will only be able to buy the bundle on the correct type of captain, and the box 'with all the things' will be character bound, so that outcome isn't even possible -- it'll require you be on a Jem captain to buy, so all the character-bound stuff can only be given to a Jem captain. The ship will unlock separately.

    Wow, that is even worse if it requires a horneytoad just to buy the thing in the first place, even if one is willing to spend that much to get just the ship. For some that would mean having to buy a slot to make a captain they don't want and won't play to make the purchase of the ship (for the other character on the account) and a package they will never use. Absolutely brilliant...

    Every other legendary ship package could be purchased for a set of races (including 'alien' which widens out the possibilities even further) because there are at least several races in all of the other factions, but there is no variety whatsoever in the faction that this package is locked to, and that makes a tremendous difference from the others.

    Yeah, it's the Jem'hadar thing that'll muck it up. The Legendary Rom captain bundle required you be on a Rom captain to purchase, and gave everything except the ship to that captain and no one else. The legendary KDF captain had a similar restriction. I believe the Legendary Disco captain did as well. So you can see why these bundles irk me. Everything is bound to that one lone captain except the ship.

    Agreed.

    Expensive bundles should be usable on all characters, like almost all C-store stuff has been since they added cross-faction flying.

    And it shouldn't be the case that they mostly consist of one-time (in this case also nearly pointless) boosts or single-use items.


    I wonder if the people putting together these bundles would actually buy them if they're playing the game. Cause I seriously doubt that anyone really believes these things to be a good deal. I haven't bought any of them and from what I'm reading, I'm guessing that almost no one has.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    Well, all the godies should come in a box that is account bound, so you keep it in your bank to give to any Jem'Hadar you want... so you save it for a new one?, great, you may have it!...
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  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    Well, they're improving the account trait. So that's something.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    Well, they're improving the account trait. So that's something.

    I wish they would use their own forum. Saw your post and had to go on the hunt. See that Bort said on twitter they are going to add a 5s duration extension.

    OK with that in mind Cryptic ya I guess I'll drop some Zen. The ship does seem decent... the rest of the pack is useless. But now that the trait is actually useful I guess I'm sold.

    Also if Bort does see this. Good on you for actually exploring some feedback and making some changes.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    gaevsman wrote: »
    Well, all the godies should come in a box that is account bound, so you keep it in your bank to give to any Jem'Hadar you want... so you save it for a new one?, great, you may have it!...

    The point is that unlike all the other factions there is no variety in what the devs laughingly try to pass off as Dominion. The Romulan one you could buy and use with a Romulan, Reman, or anything you could make with 'alien'. KDF even more so, with Klingon, Gorn, Orion, etc. (and alien of course), and the Fed one also gave that wide variety, so there were a lot of character concepts to go with that could benefit from the whole package.

    This package has NO choice, you can ONLY buy it and use it with a J'H, period. Putting the extras in a box and putting it in the bank (if it could even be done) is no solution, it would do nothing but take up a bank slot forever if the player does not want to play a Jem'Hadar in the first place.

    Those who want to play a Dominion character in the way they are shown in canon are out of luck, since Vorta (and the other Gamma races that can be made with the 'alien' tab) can only be made in the other factions and without exception all officers were Vorta. So are the people who just don't like the look of the toads or have some other objection such as the fact that the faction is genderlocked (and yes, eunuch qualifies as a "gender" in that respect), or the fact that they by nature of being bio-androids with preprogrammed skills but no life experience memories they begin the game with no individuality or past to make a character concept with.
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Well, they're improving the account trait. So that's something.

    I wish they would use their own forum. Saw your post and had to go on the hunt. See that Bort said on twitter they are going to add a 5s duration extension.

    OK with that in mind Cryptic ya I guess I'll drop some Zen. The ship does seem decent... the rest of the pack is useless. But now that the trait is actually useful I guess I'm sold.

    Also if Bort does see this. Good on you for actually exploring some feedback and making some changes.

    I only found out from a couple of youtubers. I don't do twitter.

    I'm kinda leaning towards it now myself. If not release some point down the road.

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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    It needs to be [...] cooldown equal to duration.

    With the changes it basically IS. People complained about the cooldown reduction because it's already possible to reliably get it down to the minimum at all times, by making it last an extra 5 seconds that means Surgical Strikes and Exceed Rated Limits will have a duration equal to their minimum cooldown, essentially making them permanent. I'm not sure on the other affected abilities though, I haven't used them so idk what their minimum cooldowns are.
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,572 Arc User
    I've bought everyone of these Legendary Bundles and the Character that buys it does NOT get the Leveling Pack. That Item is placed as a Claimable Item in the Items Tab of the C-Store that can be claimed by a Character of the appropriate type any time in the future.

    I haven't claimed any of those Leveling Packs yet.
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  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 358 Arc User
    Wow, that is even worse if it requires a horneytoad just to buy the thing in the first place, even if one is willing to spend that much to get just the ship. For some that would mean having to buy a slot to make a captain they don't want and won't play to make the purchase of the ship (for the other character on the account) and a package they will never use. Absolutely brilliant...

    Every other legendary ship package could be purchased for a set of races (including 'alien' which widens out the possibilities even further) because there are at least several races in all of the other factions, but there is no variety whatsoever in the faction that this package is locked to, and that makes a tremendous difference from the others.
    For all the previous Legendary ships with leveling bundles you had to be on the correct faction character to claim and use the level boost pack. So any character could claim the ship itself (so long as you have cross faction flying unlocked) But only a Rommie can claim the Level boost from the T'Liss. Only a KDF can claim it from the D-7 bundle etc. The Full set of BOFF's and Gear is part of the level boost. So they will be tied to the Boostable character.

  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 358 Arc User
    The only thing that might make this a must buy would be unlocking Vorta as a Captain Race officially. And the only thing that would seemingly prevent that is the JH starter storyline and missions. Which would make no sense as a Vorta. But a Vorta Captain would make so much more sense once you are past the starter missions.
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    I've bought everyone of these Legendary Bundles and the Character that buys it does NOT get the Leveling Pack. That Item is placed as a Claimable Item in the Items Tab of the C-Store that can be claimed by a Character of the appropriate type any time in the future.

    I haven't claimed any of those Leveling Packs yet.

    That's OK then. I can buy the pack on my one JH I actually play, then stuff the levelling stuff in a box for when Gamma recruit rolls around again.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    The only thing that might make this a must buy would be unlocking Vorta as a Captain Race officially. And the only thing that would seemingly prevent that is the JH starter storyline and missions. Which would make no sense as a Vorta. But a Vorta Captain would make so much more sense once you are past the starter missions.

    They could probably get by with a simple cutscene at the start where a superior (possibly a Founder) tells the Vorta that they need to be familiar with what the troops can do, and so said recruit is being sent on a short course to do that firsthand. And yes, unlocking Vorta as a playable race for the Dominion would solve a lot of the problems with the faction and a lot more people would actually do Gamma recruits.

    Wow, that is even worse if it requires a horneytoad just to buy the thing in the first place, even if one is willing to spend that much to get just the ship. For some that would mean having to buy a slot to make a captain they don't want and won't play to make the purchase of the ship (for the other character on the account) and a package they will never use. Absolutely brilliant...

    Every other legendary ship package could be purchased for a set of races (including 'alien' which widens out the possibilities even further) because there are at least several races in all of the other factions, but there is no variety whatsoever in the faction that this package is locked to, and that makes a tremendous difference from the others.
    For all the previous Legendary ships with leveling bundles you had to be on the correct faction character to claim and use the level boost pack. So any character could claim the ship itself (so long as you have cross faction flying unlocked) But only a Rommie can claim the Level boost from the T'Liss. Only a KDF can claim it from the D-7 bundle etc. The Full set of BOFF's and Gear is part of the level boost. So they will be tied to the Boostable character.

    Someone said that only a J'H could purchase the ship bundle at all (presumably it would come up as "character does not meet the requirements" or however they word it), is that not the case? I don't do twitter and have never bought a legendary pack so all I have to go by is second hand information.

    If you can initially buy it with any faction and get the ship but just not be able to claim the bloat box then it might not be too big of a gouge for just the account-wide ship with all the previous skins during the sale if the trait actually gets its boost. Breaking the boff and some of the gear out of the instant 65 box and into a simple one-time-only box that any faction of character could claim would be even better though and would balance the loss of the rest of the stuff a bit better.

    Of course it would not be a problem in the first place if Vorta were available as playable characters in the right faction instead of just all the others.
  • finsches123finsches123 Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Saw your post and had to go on the hunt. See that Bort said on twitter they are going to add a 5s duration extension.

    That's really amazing. Exceed Rated Limits and reworked Surgical Strikes are rivals for BO with better slots on some ships, only the Pilot one didn't even make me remember its name so far.

    If you read that, thanks Bort!
    I guess the bundle is worth getting now. B)
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,026 Arc User
    3) Account-reclaim for the Kar’takin and Weyoun clone.
    Absolutely... however, I would opine that the kar'takin should have been available a long time ago. Specifically:
    • Jem'Hadar captains would get one as part of their starting inventory;
    • other captains would be able to purchase it from the Dominion (that store is unlocked, as I recall, by completing 'Home');
    • one could be found on the weapon racks in 'Coliseum

    It would also be plausible to wonder how come the space weapons available from said store aren't, well, Dominion-polaron... and very reasonable to wonder why, as phoenixc points out, proofreading seems to be in such a bad state. That kind of sloppiness reflects badly on image for a variety of reasons I will not go into here.

    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,897 Community Moderator
    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."

    There are no plans for playable Vorta, because, as has been stated before, it's really a Jem'Hadar Faction, not a Dominion Faction. That copy about the Vorta BOFF is an in-universe explanation as to why you'd have a Vorta in combat. It's not meant to indicate anything else.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,468 Arc User
    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."

    There are no plans for playable Vorta, because, as has been stated before, it's really a Jem'Hadar Faction, not a Dominion Faction. That copy about the Vorta BOFF is an in-universe explanation as to why you'd have a Vorta in combat. It's not meant to indicate anything else.

    As Weyoun says in DS9, Vorta have poor eyesight and are poor combatants. I find it 'short-sighted' that the founders would make their dedicated diplomats more combat-ready :lol:
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    leemwatson wrote: »
    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."

    There are no plans for playable Vorta, because, as has been stated before, it's really a Jem'Hadar Faction, not a Dominion Faction. That copy about the Vorta BOFF is an in-universe explanation as to why you'd have a Vorta in combat. It's not meant to indicate anything else.

    As Weyoun says in DS9, Vorta have poor eyesight and are poor combatants. I find it 'short-sighted' that the founders would make their dedicated diplomats more combat-ready :lol:

    Both the producer and Jeffrey Combs have stated that most of what Weyoun said in the show were lies meant to confuse the Federation in preparation for the invasion, and that "poor combatants" one was obviously one of them considering that every single Dominion military unit shown was commanded by a Vorta, not a Jem'Hadar. That includes ships, ground forces, and bases/outposts, every single one was commanded by a Vorta without exception.

    Yes, Vorta have relatively poor eyesight, but sight is not their primary sense, passive-sonar-like hearing is (which is why they have those huge complex ears). Watch Weyoun's body language when someone comes into the room behind him quietly, he knows exactly where they are and what they are doing without having to turn around and use his eyes (Combs mentioned he liked doing that kind of ultra-subtle acting and used that example as an illustration in at least one article I read about Weyoun and DS9). If he had a weapon and had to use it he could have easily shot the person without turning around, and if that does not qualify as being able to fight effectively if need be then nothing is.

    The Vorta were all about Maskirovka and obfuscated leading from the rear to confuse the enemy, just like the Ferengi were all about the out-of-control capitalist stereotype.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    edited April 2022
    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."

    There are no plans for playable Vorta, because, as has been stated before, it's really a Jem'Hadar Faction, not a Dominion Faction. That copy about the Vorta BOFF is an in-universe explanation as to why you'd have a Vorta in combat. It's not meant to indicate anything else.

    Accept you are incorrect.... From the OP blog post;
    "The character to be boosted must belong to the Dominion faction."
    "All weaponry supports the Dominion use of their trademark Polaron energy type, and includes ground weapon visuals distinctly belonging to the Dominion faction."

    According to Cryptic they have a Dominion faction in game... not a Jem faction.

    So no reason to not have playable Vorta... and even changelings. If Cryptic has claimed differently in the past perhaps they where just being lazy. lol
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    I'm not providing buckets if we do get changelings, damn liquids.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."

    There are no plans for playable Vorta, because, as has been stated before, it's really a Jem'Hadar Faction, not a Dominion Faction. That copy about the Vorta BOFF is an in-universe explanation as to why you'd have a Vorta in combat. It's not meant to indicate anything else.

    Accept you are incorrect.... From the OP blog post;
    "The character to be boosted must belong to the Dominion faction."
    "All weaponry supports the Dominion use of their trademark Polaron energy type, and includes ground weapon visuals distinctly belonging to the Dominion faction."

    According to Cryptic they have a Dominion faction in game... not a Jem faction.

    So no reason to not have playable Vorta... and even changelings. If Cryptic has claimed differently in the past perhaps they where just being lazy. lol

    but back when the faction was actually introduced in game, there was a lot of discussion (in livestreams, forum threads, etc) about which races would be available, and eventually a statement that they had chosen to only make Jem'Hadar available (not even an alien option) because the devs felt that the tutorial storyline wouldn't make sense if you weren't Jem'Hadar.

    Al has contradicted that before though, I forget exactly when but a year or two ago he did an interview for a content update and was asked about Dominion races, he said that Changelings were originally planned to be included but they couldn't get the animations to look right in time for ViL and probably won't be able to revisit that any time soon.
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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,608 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    On another note: folks had wondered about playable Vorta; and it's noted that the events of the GQ arc have forced changes in the Dominion, so there would be some in-universe justification. Perhaps this clone boff is a metaphorical step in that direction, given this bit of information:

    "This updated template of a Male Vorta has been specially-bred to be more combat-ready than most of his peers..."

    There are no plans for playable Vorta, because, as has been stated before, it's really a Jem'Hadar Faction, not a Dominion Faction. That copy about the Vorta BOFF is an in-universe explanation as to why you'd have a Vorta in combat. It's not meant to indicate anything else.

    As Weyoun says in DS9, Vorta have poor eyesight and are poor combatants. I find it 'short-sighted' that the founders would make their dedicated diplomats more combat-ready :lol:

    Weyoun was always full it. The Vorta where superior fighters, you simply don't want an army of super geniuses... there was good reason for the founders to keep killing off the Weyouns. Jem Hadar where just tools... the vorta where the ones that wielded them. lol

    Some more Vorta trait ideas...
    Engineered Vorta (ground)
    * +333 resistance to toxic damage
    * +100 resistance to psionic damage
    * -20 resistance debuff to enemies with in 20 meters

    Vorta Telekinetic defense (ground)
    * When a Vorta drops under 50% health they can trigger a AOE telekinetic stun pulse.

    Vorta Reward of the founders (space)
    * +10 Starship Warp Core Efficiency
    * Inspires your ship crew, leading to 15% faster damage and subsystem repair during combat, and 30% out of combat.
    * +5 Accuracy +5 defense

    Obedience brings victory (Space)
    -10% Captain skill cool downs.

    and of course they could just make the new boff trait Authority of the Founders a captain selectable.

    Lore wise Vorta are supposed to be immune to most forms of poison, they have telekinetic powers. They also have better hearing compared to other solids. They also command complete obedience from their Jem Crew.

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