In case anyone is interested Som’s Tenforward write up also talks about the logic behind the change:
Jeremy believes that, in the long run, meaningful changes to the DilEx would have to come from both sources and sinks. Jeremy knows we need more sinks, and better sinks, and thats what Cryptic wants to focus on. Kael mentions there are sinks in the works, and Jeremy adds changes might as come as soon as in the next month.
This change only affects the T5 rep rewards. All other rewards are being kept the same. Jeremy points out that originally they gave you dil ore you had to refine, the vouchers don't require refining, allowing you to use them quicker.
Jeremy would have to look into any possible economic impact, but isn't opposed to letting you trade in these rep vouchers for fleet vouchers. Is also open to the idea of letting you spend these vouchers on things in the rep stores.
Problem with the rep store idea is that Jeremy doesn't know of a way to allow us to do that cleanly. The messy way would be having to duplicate every item in every rep store, and change them to essentially use a different currency.
Of all the ideas they selected the worst to start with. Instead of trying the sinks first which wouldnt hurt the players or profits... These people dont know what they are doing.
> @jcsww said:
> Personally, I don't think this will have the desired effect on the Dilithium market as 415,000 Dilithium per character for the entire Rep System being complete for Tier 5 isn't really a lot. What I think it will do though, is devalue the content that people play to grind out these less useful Rep Systems that have no worth while equipment worth getting, leaving more advanced and elite queues dead. I wish the team had been a lot more creative in their attempt at a solution for the excess Dilithium in the game, which by the way, they caused by adding Dilithium rewards to so much to make boring content slightly more attractive, at least to the heavy grinders.
Well said. I agree that this decision is going to be unpopular, but it really is much ado about nothing. There is still a lot of dilithium in the rep grind. Making Admiralty and Reputation seem less rewarding is maybe good for the dilithium problem— but players would prefer more shinies in the Phoenix boxes.
Moreover the exchange has been broken for almost a year now. Turning down the dilithium tap a little won’t change anything. And I can’t believe the developers would think it might.
Personally, it doesn't bother me one way or another. That was just my opinion based on how I play the game. Some queues are pretty empty at it is. This change makes it worse for the queues, at least that's how I see it.
If I can't get the stuff to grind the system for the gear in the first place. I'm just going to pass on that whole Reputation.
The Admirality System will be the next... Well, it already is the preferred for farming and has been for a long time. I would have expected the Admirality System to get nerfed before the Reputation System.
I don't think it will make much difference either way, the T5 dil is not that much and I think most people get the bulk of their dil from the constant churn of events rather than one-time per character per rep lumps.
I feel it's worth pointing out that when Reputations were added to the game, there was no such thing as Reputation Dilithium Vouchers. If there had been at the time, then I'm sure Reputations would have awarded those from the beginning.
- - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
For everyone saying this won't effect the exchange cause its only 480k one time, or it wasn't an "exploit"... you guys understand their are people that do this with 10 or so toons at a time. When they hit T5, they log in once a day for 2s and click refine for 60 days, then DELETE the toon and roll a new toon. There are people that keep 20 slots for nothing else... they have 10 they just log and click once a day while they have another they do a slightly longer 30s click click on getting them to T5.
The result... 160,000 refined D a DAY... for a total of around 5-10 min depending how fast the server is letting them switch toons. People saying this isn't a lot of dill and its not a problem are being super disingenuous.
Also remember Cryptic has the data... they know when you delete a toon. I think they have a pretty good handle on how much of an issue this is... sorry was.
My newest character is about 1/2 way through t4 reps, and already has ~100k unrefined dil. The only harm this change does her it that I'll be able to grab pretty much whatever equipment I want as soon as she hits t5. Wait, did I say harm? That doesn't quite sound right. In all seriousness, having 400k-500k of unrefined dilithium sitting on a character doesn't really do anything for a new player or a new character, unless that's all you want them for. Having ~400k immediately usable dilithium makes hitting t5 reputation level an almost immediate and significant power boost, instead of having to wait a couple weeks to have enough to get the equipment that matters for your build.
Exactly... this is a great change for new players. Players that have one or two toons and not 30 or 40 with 10 slots for killable reroll toons. New players are going to hit T5 and be able to fully gear up their ships and ground setups with rep sets, and not have to farm for weeks or pay money. Heck they can even afford to shocking idea try out some out of meta sets cause why not they will have the Dill and marks to burn.
Who won't like this people running multi toon slot slaughter houses.
By the time I hit t5 the only thing I don't already have is my space shields... And I am a completely causal player who rarely has spare dil(or ec for that matter), even though I've been playing since 2013.
For a new player who is only getting 2500 rep xp per day(2800 if they waste rep marks on hourlies) getting the necessary dil to get the rep items in-between tiers is not that hard(missions and tfos, plus the never ending stream of events). Anyone who has gone to t6 in their reps and purchased the discounts have it even easier.
This only "helps" people who don't know what they are doing and don't bother to learn.
This also removes my desire to replay old content. Dailies(and hourlies) have 3 requirements... ec, marks and... lets say xp(i can think of the name atm) Doing 13 reps a day burns 26000 xp. Without doing missions its hard to keep that going, as tfo's don't give as much. Now, my only reason for old missions are almost useless accolades, and the gear some provide. But once I have the gear?
All this means even less time spent in game, as I have no burning desire to do more than log in for my free stuff....
In case anyone is interested Som’s Tenforward write up also talks about the logic behind the change:
Jeremy believes that, in the long run, meaningful changes to the DilEx would have to come from both sources and sinks. Jeremy knows we need more sinks, and better sinks, and thats what Cryptic wants to focus on. Kael mentions there are sinks in the works, and Jeremy adds changes might as come as soon as in the next month.
This change only affects the T5 rep rewards. All other rewards are being kept the same. Jeremy points out that originally they gave you dil ore you had to refine, the vouchers don't require refining, allowing you to use them quicker.
Jeremy would have to look into any possible economic impact, but isn't opposed to letting you trade in these rep vouchers for fleet vouchers. Is also open to the idea of letting you spend these vouchers on things in the rep stores.
Problem with the rep store idea is that Jeremy doesn't know of a way to allow us to do that cleanly. The messy way would be having to duplicate every item in every rep store, and change them to essentially use a different currency.
Of all the ideas they selected the worst to start with. Instead of trying the sinks first which wouldnt hurt the players or profits... These people dont know what they are doing.
TBF, they did try sinks, twice. Unfortunately both times were mediocre to horrible.
Vanity shields for dil is mediocore. I like it, but it has a limited effect, since it's not consumable.
Then, the endeavor/admiralty pass tokens. Those were a sink attempt. A god-awful, brain-dead attempt.
Frankly, I think they should add more timer buyouts in places where there aren't any, or are in zen instead.
Something like the R&D or upgrade system. You can set off a project, and wait for it to finish, or you can pay dil to finish it early.
That's a sink that both doesn't hurt existing players, and offers a shortcut for those that are impatient or have dil to spend.
It might not work, but at least it doesn't break the game or affect players negatively in the process, like literally every other action Cryptic has taken, save for the vanity shields.
For everyone saying this won't effect the exchange cause its only 480k one time, or it wasn't an "exploit"... you guys understand their are people that do this with 10 or so toons at a time. When they hit T5, they log in once a day for 2s and click refine for 60 days, then DELETE the toon and roll a new toon. There are people that keep 20 slots for nothing else... they have 10 they just log and click once a day while they have another they do a slightly longer 30s click click on getting them to T5.
The result... 160,000 refined D a DAY... for a total of around 5-10 min depending how fast the server is letting them switch toons. People saying this isn't a lot of dill and its not a problem are being super disingenuous.
Also remember Cryptic has the data... they know when you delete a toon. I think they have a pretty good handle on how much of an issue this is... sorry was.
Yep, there are people posting in this thread saying not to do it because it will cut into their dil for zen farming.
I do think they need to update the rep stores to also take the rep dil so we can get beams, cannons, consoles with it not just the set gear.
For everyone saying this won't effect the exchange cause its only 480k one time, or it wasn't an "exploit"... you guys understand their are people that do this with 10 or so toons at a time. When they hit T5, they log in once a day for 2s and click refine for 60 days, then DELETE the toon and roll a new toon. There are people that keep 20 slots for nothing else... they have 10 they just log and click once a day while they have another they do a slightly longer 30s click click on getting them to T5.
The result... 160,000 refined D a DAY... for a total of around 5-10 min depending how fast the server is letting them switch toons. People saying this isn't a lot of dill and its not a problem are being super disingenuous.
Also remember Cryptic has the data... they know when you delete a toon. I think they have a pretty good handle on how much of an issue this is... sorry was.
Yep, there are people posting in this thread saying not to do it because it will cut into their dil for zen farming.
I do think they need to update the rep stores to also take the rep dil so we can get beams, cannons, consoles with it not just the set gear.
That does make perfect sense. I mean those are pure sink... doubly if people actually upgrade them. So why not.
I've been playing this game for 3 years, so I don't know if I'm still considered a "new player" or not; but it was only within the past 8 months that I finally discovered how much of a god-send getting so much of a payout of dilithium from reaching Tier 5 reputations and being able to stock up on Phoenix Universal Upgrade tokens. It was this payout that helped me upgrade my gear for the majority of my CACs, and I depended on the payout from my older 5 CACs to pay for the upgrades for my Delta/Gamma/Temporal recruits for last year, and now it seems I no longer have this ability as my characters are nowhere near complete with upgraded gear.
As a somewhat new player with hardly any resources IRL to put into this game (money-wise), this decision seems like it was implemented with no regard to those that are on the low-end of the financial hierarchy.
Just wondering where does that make sense? You get like 32k per Reputation System now you get it Reputation Dillithium, how who is going to use that much? The change makes no sense to me unless they want that free to play players not earn much Dillitihium anymore. Personally I'm not affected because all my Chars are maxed on Level and Reputation but I got a few people in my fleet who are asking serious questions. They don't do anything to fix the Zen / Dilli exchange but now they take Dillithium rewards away from the players as they already did with the Admirality ?
They don't really think that people invest more real money into the game because of that in a time like this do they?
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
In case anyone is interested Som’s Tenforward write up also talks about the logic behind the change:
Jeremy believes that, in the long run, meaningful changes to the DilEx would have to come from both sources and sinks. Jeremy knows we need more sinks, and better sinks, and thats what Cryptic wants to focus on. Kael mentions there are sinks in the works, and Jeremy adds changes might as come as soon as in the next month.
This change only affects the T5 rep rewards. All other rewards are being kept the same. Jeremy points out that originally they gave you dil ore you had to refine, the vouchers don't require refining, allowing you to use them quicker.
Jeremy would have to look into any possible economic impact, but isn't opposed to letting you trade in these rep vouchers for fleet vouchers. Is also open to the idea of letting you spend these vouchers on things in the rep stores.
Problem with the rep store idea is that Jeremy doesn't know of a way to allow us to do that cleanly. The messy way would be having to duplicate every item in every rep store, and change them to essentially use a different currency.
Of all the ideas they selected the worst to start with. Instead of trying the sinks first which wouldnt hurt the players or profits... These people dont know what they are doing.
As someone living dirt-poor and doesn't have the financial resources to put into this game just so I can keep up with everyone else here, I feel like decisions like these are done in their ivory towers with little to no regard for those of us dirt-level peasant-serfs (like myself); it just comes across as extremely and horribly out-of-touch.
I've been playing this game for 3 years, so I don't know if I'm still considered a "new player" or not; but it was only within the past 8 months that I finally discovered how much of a god-send getting so much of a payout of dilithium from reaching Tier 5 reputations and being able to stock up on Phoenix Universal Upgrade tokens. It was this payout that helped me upgrade my gear for the majority of my CACs, and I depended on the payout from my older 5 CACs to pay for the upgrades for my Delta/Gamma/Temporal recruits for last year, and now it seems I no longer have this ability as my characters are nowhere near complete with upgraded gear.
As a somewhat new player with hardly any resources IRL to put into this game (money-wise), this decision seems like it was implemented with no regard to those that are on the low-end of the financial hierarchy.
There are plenty of ways to play and earn Dilithium...
Its a game we where never supposed to be able to create toons with a planned delete date when we have stripped them dry.
There are plenty of ways to earn 8k Dill a day on a "less" geared toon. I admit I farm tons of Dill... I do not and have never deleted a toon ever I don't think. (I might be forgetting an actual re roll on a naming mess up perhaps lol) Admiralty is a great way to earn Dill... and it rewards people that have yes purchased lots of ships no doubt, but even with a basic stable of ships its not hard to run 1 or 2 sets of missions a day. You can also learn how to build low cost builds. All you really need to compete STFs is one good account unlocked sci ship... and a willingness to go grab a handful of completely free mission gear and the like for them. Of course there are a handful of ship traits from zen ships and the like that make things easier in that regard. But figuring out how to build a good build you can easily replicate on alt toons is more then viable.
Anyway for everyone playing... ya to earn Dill you should probably have to actually play. The rewards we got from Rep or recruits ect where never intended to be farmed over and over.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
32k is about the price of one piece of space gear from a rep. With the Ore you have to spend days to refine it all before its usable in ANYTHING. Rep Vouchers are usable for rep projects immediately.
Also I'm pretty sure Omega Rep only gave 9.5k, which was enough for one piece of ground gear.
Your thread was merged here since this discussion is already taken place here.
/Merged
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
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So your making reach tier 5 pointless then got it , atleast now i dont have to waste time tryin for it because now its not worth it.
Was the dill reward the only reason you where playing ? I imagine then the toon in question had a life span ? You where I guess going to delete it at 80-100 days old or so, to make room for new blood right ?
This is an absurdly stupid change. There is some 350k+ dil in the tier 5 rewards. Who spends that much on reputation gear? I have several newer characters that still have a reputation dil voucher balance as it is from the various recruitments and never used it all despite having mk XV gear. What would they do with another 350k+ on top of their remaining voucher? Furthermore, for a new character, this is dilithium that could typically go to upgrading gear via phoenix boxes instead of wasting it on a voucher you don't have any use for.
I get it, some people farm the stuff making new characters they have no intention of playing, yet there is no question who this change hurts, its the people who actually want to play their characters. However, as has been said many times, the problem here isn't the dilithium supply, its that there is nothing to spend it on of serious note after you have the gear you want.
Here's a suggestion: Let people cash out their dil vouchers after 3 months or something, so real characters aren't hurt as much by this, and farmers either go for long term investment or find something better.
32k is about the price of one piece of space gear from a rep. With the Ore you have to spend days to refine it all before its usable in ANYTHING. Rep Vouchers are usable for rep projects immediately.
Also I'm pretty sure Omega Rep only gave 9.5k, which was enough for one piece of ground gear.
Not sure about omega even though I just did 3 new chars I never paid attention how much Dillithium I got. But yeah 32k, I pay half that but then Warpcore and stuff most of time I don't really use more then 2 pieces from the rep system. Sometimes none. Fleet still has some very valid things. Weapons and Ground gear is pretty cheap. So if I get lets say 400k Dillithium for Reputation I have no idea what to do with that. I remember getting from C-Store Legendary Pack 250.000k and I wasn't even able to use half of that but I guess that depends on your needs and wants. I still think this move was stupid and really doesn't do anything for the Player Base or Cryptic...
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
32k is about the price of one piece of space gear from a rep. With the Ore you have to spend days to refine it all before its usable in ANYTHING. Rep Vouchers are usable for rep projects immediately.
Also I'm pretty sure Omega Rep only gave 9.5k, which was enough for one piece of ground gear.
Someone actually gets it! As one who doesn't run monster scale industrial dil farming, this change is a BUFF and BOON for my more casual gameplay way of earning it as it gives me all these dil vouchers I don't need to refine in order to use it on rep gear if I decide to make a new character on the side. I can kit them out now so much faster now while still earning real dil to refine and NOT have to waste said dil equipping my characters with rep gear, because guess what, there is still absurd amounts of dil outside of the T5 rep rewards, literally insane amounts of dil still exists outside of rep rewards and through marks themselves, shocker I know!
You'd think all dilithium entirely was being removed from the game if you went by what is the greatest community over-reaction in STO's history. The Devs work truly is thankless no matter what they do, they just can't win, they are going to be getting massive flak from someone no matter what, I really pity them sometimes.
Still, while this is a step in the right direction, they need to do something about Mudd. Mudd is the big ugly muddy elephant in the room that really set things off in the wrong direction more than anything with the economy. It completely and totally destroyed the concept and purpose of what the Phoenix dil sink was supposed to accomplish. Stop putting retired items in Mudd and eliminate such insanely high zen price gouging. Doing something about Mudd along with the current changes would have a massive impact towards restoring economic health in this game.
I've been playing this game for 3 years, so I don't know if I'm still considered a "new player" or not; but it was only within the past 8 months that I finally discovered how much of a god-send getting so much of a payout of dilithium from reaching Tier 5 reputations and being able to stock up on Phoenix Universal Upgrade tokens. It was this payout that helped me upgrade my gear for the majority of my CACs, and I depended on the payout from my older 5 CACs to pay for the upgrades for my Delta/Gamma/Temporal recruits for last year, and now it seems I no longer have this ability as my characters are nowhere near complete with upgraded gear.
As a somewhat new player with hardly any resources IRL to put into this game (money-wise), this decision seems like it was implemented with no regard to those that are on the low-end of the financial hierarchy.
There are plenty of ways to play and earn Dilithium...
Its a game we where never supposed to be able to create toons with a planned delete date when we have stripped them dry.
There are plenty of ways to earn 8k Dill a day on a "less" geared toon. I admit I farm tons of Dill... I do not and have never deleted a toon ever I don't think. (I might be forgetting an actual re roll on a naming mess up perhaps lol) Admiralty is a great way to earn Dill... and it rewards people that have yes purchased lots of ships no doubt, but even with a basic stable of ships its not hard to run 1 or 2 sets of missions a day. You can also learn how to build low cost builds. All you really need to compete STFs is one good account unlocked sci ship... and a willingness to go grab a handful of completely free mission gear and the like for them. Of course there are a handful of ship traits from zen ships and the like that make things easier in that regard. But figuring out how to build a good build you can easily replicate on alt toons is more then viable.
Anyway for everyone playing... ya to earn Dill you should probably have to actually play. The rewards we got from Rep or recruits ect where never intended to be farmed over and over.
...except I was never able to obtain 40K unrefined dilithium to buy the 10-pack Phoenix Prize boxes until I got my first Tier 5 dilithium payout; I would spend dilithium on Phoenix Prize Tokens right as I hit 4500 dil to upgrade my gear because I needed the upgrade just to survive missions. Ever since I was able to get such huge lumps of unrefined dilithium, I started to survive and at least keep up with everybody else on TFOs and Battlezones by upgrading weapons, consoles, equipment, shields, etc to Mk XV buy buying the 10-pack Phoenix Prize Boxes and buy the Phoenix Upgrade Tokens in bulk, and pass the tokens on to the rest of my alternate (and newer) characters for the exact same survivability.
Honestly, this is such a disrespectful slap in the face for those of us on the low-end of the food chain.
Being honest here, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
They are saying they have no money to spend... and now if they want to grind dill to buy dill from players that do have $ they will have to actually play the alts they are milking.
I've been playing this game for 3 years, so I don't know if I'm still considered a "new player" or not; but it was only within the past 8 months that I finally discovered how much of a god-send getting so much of a payout of dilithium from reaching Tier 5 reputations and being able to stock up on Phoenix Universal Upgrade tokens. It was this payout that helped me upgrade my gear for the majority of my CACs, and I depended on the payout from my older 5 CACs to pay for the upgrades for my Delta/Gamma/Temporal recruits for last year, and now it seems I no longer have this ability as my characters are nowhere near complete with upgraded gear.
As a somewhat new player with hardly any resources IRL to put into this game (money-wise), this decision seems like it was implemented with no regard to those that are on the low-end of the financial hierarchy.
There are plenty of ways to play and earn Dilithium...
Its a game we where never supposed to be able to create toons with a planned delete date when we have stripped them dry.
There are plenty of ways to earn 8k Dill a day on a "less" geared toon. I admit I farm tons of Dill... I do not and have never deleted a toon ever I don't think. (I might be forgetting an actual re roll on a naming mess up perhaps lol) Admiralty is a great way to earn Dill... and it rewards people that have yes purchased lots of ships no doubt, but even with a basic stable of ships its not hard to run 1 or 2 sets of missions a day. You can also learn how to build low cost builds. All you really need to compete STFs is one good account unlocked sci ship... and a willingness to go grab a handful of completely free mission gear and the like for them. Of course there are a handful of ship traits from zen ships and the like that make things easier in that regard. But figuring out how to build a good build you can easily replicate on alt toons is more then viable.
Anyway for everyone playing... ya to earn Dill you should probably have to actually play. The rewards we got from Rep or recruits ect where never intended to be farmed over and over.
...except I was never able to obtain 40K unrefined dilithium to buy the 10-pack Phoenix Prize boxes until I got my first Tier 5 dilithium payout; I would spend dilithium on Phoenix Prize Tokens right as I hit 4500 dil to upgrade my gear because I needed the upgrade just to survive missions. Ever since I was able to get such huge lumps of unrefined dilithium, I started to survive and at least keep up with everybody else on TFOs and Battlezones by upgrading weapons, consoles, equipment, shields, etc to Mk XV buy buying the 10-pack Phoenix Prize Boxes and buy the Phoenix Upgrade Tokens in bulk, and pass the tokens on to the rest of my alternate (and newer) characters for the exact same survivability.
Well a few things... one you are free to refine your 8k every day and simply buy a 10 pack once a week. Two you could also play a few alts and transfer Dill to your main toon just like you did before.
The only difference here is you can't roll new toons for no reason then to drain them dry of rewards intended to help that toon.
The only thing that is changing is people wanting to farm alts for Dill for their "main" toon... they will have to actually play something. Honestly this game still has multiple pretty low effort methods of farming Dill. They just aren't as low effort as the T5 rep rinse and repeat was.
Admiralty, doff missions, contraband. You can still make a good amount of dill without bothering to gear your alts. Or you could minimally gear your toons and do a bit more if you wish. If you take advantage of things like Admiralty week which is on right now... you can easily keep your stocks of unrefined Dill overflowing. Alternatively people can just buy a little Dill... with money.
Comments
Personally, it doesn't bother me one way or another. That was just my opinion based on how I play the game. Some queues are pretty empty at it is. This change makes it worse for the queues, at least that's how I see it.
If I can't get the stuff to grind the system for the gear in the first place. I'm just going to pass on that whole Reputation.
The Admirality System will be the next... Well, it already is the preferred for farming and has been for a long time. I would have expected the Admirality System to get nerfed before the Reputation System.
Adding insult to injury, you put an "Exploit" label on just taking what the game gave.
This was a bad job done.
YouTube: MitNaqt Facebook: STO Neuling
The result... 160,000 refined D a DAY... for a total of around 5-10 min depending how fast the server is letting them switch toons. People saying this isn't a lot of dill and its not a problem are being super disingenuous.
Also remember Cryptic has the data... they know when you delete a toon. I think they have a pretty good handle on how much of an issue this is... sorry was.
By the time I hit t5 the only thing I don't already have is my space shields... And I am a completely causal player who rarely has spare dil(or ec for that matter), even though I've been playing since 2013.
For a new player who is only getting 2500 rep xp per day(2800 if they waste rep marks on hourlies) getting the necessary dil to get the rep items in-between tiers is not that hard(missions and tfos, plus the never ending stream of events). Anyone who has gone to t6 in their reps and purchased the discounts have it even easier.
This only "helps" people who don't know what they are doing and don't bother to learn.
This also removes my desire to replay old content. Dailies(and hourlies) have 3 requirements... ec, marks and... lets say xp(i can think of the name atm) Doing 13 reps a day burns 26000 xp. Without doing missions its hard to keep that going, as tfo's don't give as much. Now, my only reason for old missions are almost useless accolades, and the gear some provide. But once I have the gear?
All this means even less time spent in game, as I have no burning desire to do more than log in for my free stuff....
TBF, they did try sinks, twice. Unfortunately both times were mediocre to horrible.
Vanity shields for dil is mediocore. I like it, but it has a limited effect, since it's not consumable.
Then, the endeavor/admiralty pass tokens. Those were a sink attempt. A god-awful, brain-dead attempt.
Frankly, I think they should add more timer buyouts in places where there aren't any, or are in zen instead.
Something like the R&D or upgrade system. You can set off a project, and wait for it to finish, or you can pay dil to finish it early.
That's a sink that both doesn't hurt existing players, and offers a shortcut for those that are impatient or have dil to spend.
It might not work, but at least it doesn't break the game or affect players negatively in the process, like literally every other action Cryptic has taken, save for the vanity shields.
Yep, there are people posting in this thread saying not to do it because it will cut into their dil for zen farming.
I do think they need to update the rep stores to also take the rep dil so we can get beams, cannons, consoles with it not just the set gear.
That does make perfect sense. I mean those are pure sink... doubly if people actually upgrade them. So why not.
As a somewhat new player with hardly any resources IRL to put into this game (money-wise), this decision seems like it was implemented with no regard to those that are on the low-end of the financial hierarchy.
They don't really think that people invest more real money into the game because of that in a time like this do they?
As someone living dirt-poor and doesn't have the financial resources to put into this game just so I can keep up with everyone else here, I feel like decisions like these are done in their ivory towers with little to no regard for those of us dirt-level peasant-serfs (like myself); it just comes across as extremely and horribly out-of-touch.
There are plenty of ways to play and earn Dilithium...
Its a game we where never supposed to be able to create toons with a planned delete date when we have stripped them dry.
There are plenty of ways to earn 8k Dill a day on a "less" geared toon. I admit I farm tons of Dill... I do not and have never deleted a toon ever I don't think. (I might be forgetting an actual re roll on a naming mess up perhaps lol) Admiralty is a great way to earn Dill... and it rewards people that have yes purchased lots of ships no doubt, but even with a basic stable of ships its not hard to run 1 or 2 sets of missions a day. You can also learn how to build low cost builds. All you really need to compete STFs is one good account unlocked sci ship... and a willingness to go grab a handful of completely free mission gear and the like for them. Of course there are a handful of ship traits from zen ships and the like that make things easier in that regard. But figuring out how to build a good build you can easily replicate on alt toons is more then viable.
Anyway for everyone playing... ya to earn Dill you should probably have to actually play. The rewards we got from Rep or recruits ect where never intended to be farmed over and over.
Also I'm pretty sure Omega Rep only gave 9.5k, which was enough for one piece of ground gear.
Your thread was merged here since this discussion is already taken place here.
/Merged
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Was the dill reward the only reason you where playing ? I imagine then the toon in question had a life span ? You where I guess going to delete it at 80-100 days old or so, to make room for new blood right ?
I get it, some people farm the stuff making new characters they have no intention of playing, yet there is no question who this change hurts, its the people who actually want to play their characters. However, as has been said many times, the problem here isn't the dilithium supply, its that there is nothing to spend it on of serious note after you have the gear you want.
Here's a suggestion: Let people cash out their dil vouchers after 3 months or something, so real characters aren't hurt as much by this, and farmers either go for long term investment or find something better.
Thanks, didn't see that thread.
Not sure about omega even though I just did 3 new chars I never paid attention how much Dillithium I got. But yeah 32k, I pay half that but then Warpcore and stuff most of time I don't really use more then 2 pieces from the rep system. Sometimes none. Fleet still has some very valid things. Weapons and Ground gear is pretty cheap. So if I get lets say 400k Dillithium for Reputation I have no idea what to do with that. I remember getting from C-Store Legendary Pack 250.000k and I wasn't even able to use half of that but I guess that depends on your needs and wants. I still think this move was stupid and really doesn't do anything for the Player Base or Cryptic...
Someone actually gets it! As one who doesn't run monster scale industrial dil farming, this change is a BUFF and BOON for my more casual gameplay way of earning it as it gives me all these dil vouchers I don't need to refine in order to use it on rep gear if I decide to make a new character on the side. I can kit them out now so much faster now while still earning real dil to refine and NOT have to waste said dil equipping my characters with rep gear, because guess what, there is still absurd amounts of dil outside of the T5 rep rewards, literally insane amounts of dil still exists outside of rep rewards and through marks themselves, shocker I know!
You'd think all dilithium entirely was being removed from the game if you went by what is the greatest community over-reaction in STO's history. The Devs work truly is thankless no matter what they do, they just can't win, they are going to be getting massive flak from someone no matter what, I really pity them sometimes.
Still, while this is a step in the right direction, they need to do something about Mudd. Mudd is the big ugly muddy elephant in the room that really set things off in the wrong direction more than anything with the economy. It completely and totally destroyed the concept and purpose of what the Phoenix dil sink was supposed to accomplish. Stop putting retired items in Mudd and eliminate such insanely high zen price gouging. Doing something about Mudd along with the current changes would have a massive impact towards restoring economic health in this game.
...except I was never able to obtain 40K unrefined dilithium to buy the 10-pack Phoenix Prize boxes until I got my first Tier 5 dilithium payout; I would spend dilithium on Phoenix Prize Tokens right as I hit 4500 dil to upgrade my gear because I needed the upgrade just to survive missions. Ever since I was able to get such huge lumps of unrefined dilithium, I started to survive and at least keep up with everybody else on TFOs and Battlezones by upgrading weapons, consoles, equipment, shields, etc to Mk XV buy buying the 10-pack Phoenix Prize Boxes and buy the Phoenix Upgrade Tokens in bulk, and pass the tokens on to the rest of my alternate (and newer) characters for the exact same survivability.
Honestly, this is such a disrespectful slap in the face for those of us on the low-end of the food chain.
They are saying they have no money to spend... and now if they want to grind dill to buy dill from players that do have $ they will have to actually play the alts they are milking.
Well a few things... one you are free to refine your 8k every day and simply buy a 10 pack once a week. Two you could also play a few alts and transfer Dill to your main toon just like you did before.
The only difference here is you can't roll new toons for no reason then to drain them dry of rewards intended to help that toon.
The only thing that is changing is people wanting to farm alts for Dill for their "main" toon... they will have to actually play something. Honestly this game still has multiple pretty low effort methods of farming Dill. They just aren't as low effort as the T5 rep rinse and repeat was.
Admiralty, doff missions, contraband. You can still make a good amount of dill without bothering to gear your alts. Or you could minimally gear your toons and do a bit more if you wish. If you take advantage of things like Admiralty week which is on right now... you can easily keep your stocks of unrefined Dill overflowing. Alternatively people can just buy a little Dill... with money.